Roger Craig, who managed the San Francisco Giants to the 1989 World Series, traveled to Lakeland, Fla., this past spring to spend time with the struggling Detroit Tigers. Craig had been the team's pitching coach in the early '80s.
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Craig talked a lot of baseball with the Tigers' new manager, Alan Trammell. He worked with the young and largely untested Detroit pitching staff. While in Lakeland, Craig did his best bit as baseball wiseman to prop up a rookie manager, a handful of rookie coaches and a team full of fresh-faced and impressionable players.
One thing you have to be pretty certain that Craig never brought up was the 1962 New York Mets.
Six months later, the '62 Mets and the 2003 Tigers are irrevocably linked as two of the worst franchises in modern baseball history. The Tigers have lost an American League record 118 games, two short of the modern Major League record held by the '62 Mets.
It has been brutal for everyone involved with the once-proud franchise that last won the World Series in 1984.
"I think it's just the losing, the day in and day out," Trammell said last week. "It's probably a little too much for us to overcome."
Craig, of course, knows exactly how that feels. He was 32 years old in 1962 when he became one of the aces for the expansion Mets. It wasn't pretty, from the start.
The Mets lost their first nine games. They won only 20 in the season's first three months. And when the Chicago Cubs pulled a triple play to beat them on the last day of the season, the Mets were 40-120.
Despite the records, there are a lot of differences between the '62 Mets and '03 Tigers. The Mets were built from scratch. They had some young players, but there were a lot of guys who had played a lot of baseball -- some of it even pretty good baseball. Casey Stengel, who had been in 10 World Series with the New York Yankees, managed the team.
By contrast, the Tigers have been around since 1901. They have some veterans on their major league roster, but the team has been stripped of some of its best players and now is largely young, inexperienced and not particularly talented. Trammell, though he spent 19 years as a shortstop with the Tigers, is learning managing on the job.
Whatever the differences between the two franchises, the utter awfulness of these two teams links them now, and could link them forever.
"Our pitching was weak, the hitting was spotty, and the fielding was not too good either," former Mets starter Jay Hook wrote recently in The Los Angeles Times.
The same could be said -- and probably has been -- of the Tigers.
Here's a glance at some of the regulars for each team:
First base
Marv Throneberry -- "Marvelous" Marv was the worst fielding first baseman in the league (17 errors). But he's best known for missing both first and second base on what would have been a triple in a game against the Cubs that -- go figure -- the Mets lost by a run. He died in 1994.
Carlos Pena -- The team's supposed first-sacker of the future, Pena came over last season in a three-way trade with the A's and Yankees and has been a huge disappointment at the plate and in the field. Manager Trammell had to sit him earlier this month after he made three errors in one game, including dropping a simple throw from the pitcher.
Second base
Charlie Neal -- A Dodgers castoff who started his career in Brooklyn, the 31-year-old Neal returned to New York and was just OK at the plate (.260). In the field, he wasn't even that. Playing mostly at second but also getting time at short and third, Neal committed 28 errors.
Warren Morris -- A 29-year-old minor league veteran and midseason callup, Morris had four hits in a game against the Rockies in June and has been at second pretty much ever since. "I guess I've found out the way to stay in the lineup. Get four hits a day," he said. It didn't take all that. He's still getting plenty of playing time while hitting .271 with six homers in 332 at-bats.
Third base
Felix Mantilla -- After hitting .215 with Milwaukee in '61, the Braves let the Mets have Mantilla, who hit .275 in '62. He saved his best for later, though, after he left New York. He hit .315 with the Red Sox in 1963 and eventually became an All-Star in Boston, one of 13 players on the '62 Mets who would eventually gain All-Star status.
Shane Halter -- A utility guy who has turned into a semi-regular, Halter is hitting a woeful .162 as a third baseman -- but a whopping .203 with runners in scoring position. "You've got to be as positive as possible," he said earlier this year.
Shortstop
Elio Chacon -- The 25-year-old came from the Cincinnati Reds, where he played sparingly for the '61 NL champs. It wasn't hard to see why. Chacon committed 22 errors in '62. One he didn't: Teammate Richie Ashburn once famously called him off a fly ball ("Yo lo tengo!"), only to be bowled over by left fielder Frank Thomas.
Ramon Santiago -- A 24-year-old who was switched from second base, Santiago doesn't have power (two homers, a total of 19 extra-base hits and a slugging percentage under .300) or speed (nine stolen bases), he doesn't hit for average (.224) and he strikes out twice as much as he walks. Oh, and he has 18 errors between short and second.
Catcher
Chris Cannizzaro -- One time, Cannizzaro reportedly called an entire game with signs that center fielder Richie Ashburn was giving him. Cannizzaro, one of several catchers the Mets used, even had his abilities questioned by his manager. "Canzoneri," Stengel once said, "is the only defensive catcher I've seen who can't catch."
Brandon Inge -- He doesn't hit much (.204), but nobody in the AL has thrown out more runners (39) than Inge this season. Of course, only one catcher (All-Star Jorge Posada of the Yankees) has been stolen on more (opponents have 69 steals), too.
Left Field
Frank Thomas -- The three-time All-Star with the Pittsburgh Pirates was 33 when he landed with the expansion Mets. The big lug led the team with 34 home runs and 94 RBIs in '62, his last big year in a big-league career that lasted 16 seasons.
Craig Monroe -- Not the most patient of hitters (85 strikeouts in 405 at-bats, with 27 walks), the 26-year-old Monroe is one of the best things the young Tigers have going for them. Monroe is second to Dmitri Young in both homers and RBIs (21 and 64). The 21 homers ranks third among AL rookies.
Center field
Jim Hickman -- Splitting time primarily between right and center, Hickman was a 25-year-old rookie in '62. He struggled with his hitting every year of a 13-year career except one. In 1970, he hit .315 with 32 homers and 115 RBIs, all career highs by a long shot. With the '62 Mets, he hit .245 with 13 homers and 46 RBIs.
Alex Sanchez -- Speed is Sanchez's best asset (he has 38 stolen bases), although sometimes that doesn't work for him, either. Earlier this year, he tried to steal home against the Indians and was thrown out by yards. And in June, he tried to bunt with a man on second -- and two outs. He popped up.
Right field
Richie Ashburn -- Playing out the last season of a Hall of Fame career, Ashburn split his time between center and right field, hit a team-best .306 and stole 12 bases, which tied for the team lead. All at the age of 35. The Mets wanted Ashburn to return for another year, but he retired, saying he could see another miserable season ahead. The Mets lost 111 games in '63.
Bobby Higginson -- He leads the team with 57 walks despite being out for about a month this season. A hamstring injury has crippled Higginson, who is completing his ninth straight losing season with the Tigers. He has only four extra-base hits in his last 107 at-bats.
Designated hitter/Utility man
Dmitri Young -- The veteran leader of this bunch, Young has a career-best 28 homers, 81 RBIs and is hitting .288 -- all tops on the team. But the usually gregarious Young has taken the losing as hard as anyone. "It's tough to come in every day with a smile," he told The Associated Press, "and usually leave with a frown."
Rod Kanehl -- OK, so they didn't have the DH back then. But we have to include "Hot Rod" in this list. He played in 133 games, appearing at every position but catcher, and committed 32 errors. He also hit four homers that year -- including the Mets' first grand slam.
Left-handed pitcher
Al Jackson -- Jackson may have had 20 losses to only eight wins -- OK, OK, he did have 20 Ls -- but he also threw four shutouts, one off the league lead. In a 10-year career, Jackson was 67-99.
Mike Maroth -- He became the first pitcher since Brian Kingman in 1983 to lose 20 games and, two weeks later, he became the first 21-game loser in 29 years. "I have no regrets about the way I pitched," he said after loss No. 20. Maroth has a 5.81 ERA.
Right-handed pitcher
Roger Craig -- "People always talk about me losing 24," Craig once said. "They forget that I had 10 of our 40 wins." Well, that's something. Here's something else: Craig had a 4.51 ERA in '62.
Jeremy Bonderman -- In 28 starts, the rookie went 6-19 with a 5.83 ERA before the Tigers, for his own good, mercifully banished him to the bullpen. In his first relief appearance, he allowed two hits and two runs in 1 2/3 innings
Manager
Casey Stengel -- The man who turned Yogi-isms before Yogi, Stengel was 72 during the summer of '62 and was as blunt as could be when assessing his team's talents. It was part of what endeared the team to so many. "Without losers," he once said, "where would winners be?"
Alan Trammell -- A shortstop for 19 years with the Tigers, Trammell has struggled like everyone else on this team. In June, he substituted a pinch runner for a pinch runner after the first pinch runner went from first to second. He has chewed out players, benched them, left them alone ... and you see what's worked.
John Donovan is a senior writer for SI.com.