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Two for one

Bonds, Clemens qualify many times over for Hall of Fame

Posted: Wednesday September 15, 2004 12:08PM; Updated: Wednesday September 15, 2004 5:12PM
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Roger Clemens
Roger Clemens could be closing in on a seventh Cy Young award this season.
Ronald Martinez/Getty Images

Barry Bonds has salted away another MVP award. Roger Clemens has the inside track on another Cy Young Award. What is this, 1991 again? How can it be that we've moved on to an entirely new generation of players and these guys are still the best? Amazing.

The MVP would be the seventh for Bonds. The Cy would be the seventh for Clemens. Yet only once before have Bonds and Clemens won the respective awards in the same year: 2001.

Of the 19 seasons since 1986 (assuming a Bonds win this year), either Bonds or Clemens took home the heavy hardware in 12 of them. They've been at the top for so long that when Clemens won his first Cy, Mike Schmidt was the NL MVP and when Bonds won his first MVP, Bob Welch was the AL Cy Young winner.

Including this season, here is the NL MVP breakdown since 1990: Bonds: seven; all other active players: six.

And here is the breakdown for the AL Cy Young from 1986-2003: Clemens: six; all other active pitchers: five. Truly remarkable. As we start to think about 2004 major awards this time of year, the best of the best are a fitting way to start this week's mailbag.

How many players have had two Hall of Fame careers in one? I can think of two: Bonds and Clemens. You could argue they had Hall of Fame credentials at age 34. Ditto for their careers after 34. In fact, if you look at Roger starting from 1997, the year he left the Red Sox for the "twilight" of his career, and compare his stats to those of Pedro Martinez, they are incredibly similar. Through Wednesday's games, Martinez and Clemens have won  nearly the same number of games (135 for Clemens; 134 for Martinez). Clemens has pitched 1,695 2/3 innings to Martinez's 1,607 2/3 innings. Clemens has three Cy Youngs since 1997 to Martinez's two.
 -- Michael, Redwood City, Calif.

That's a very cool observation. Put another way, Clemens has been as good at the end of his career as Martinez has been in the prime of his career. And Bonds ... well, he's off the charts. Technically, you need 10 years to be eligible for the Hall, so the post-'97 era would not qualify. But your point is valid. These guys aren't just hanging on after already posting Hall-quality numbers. They're still playing at an elite level.

Is it just cynical old me who noticed that several of your Comedown Players of the Year (in the first year of drug testing) also were among those rumored to be on the juice in the years in which they put up their spectacular numbers?
 -- Jim Burke, Cincinnati

Hmmmm. Very interesting. I'm not calling anybody out without real facts. But this is a fact: a significant percentage of players have used steroids. If you think it's only 5 percent because of the survey testing done last year, you are incredibly naive. Obviously, the real number is higher than those who flunked an easy test.

OK, suppose most guys are clean. Great. But they suffer the innuendos and rumors because of the segment of the player population that cheats. Unfair? Maybe. Human nature? Absolutely. So I don't accuse anybody specifically of suffering a worse season because of the new testing program, but I do realize it's human nature to speculate when we know performance-enhancing drugs are a part of the sport. And strictly on an anecdotal basis -- the size and "puffiness" of bodies -- I do think the testing has caused some players to at least back off the juice.

We all understand Jason Giambi is having a subpar year. But it is due to his illness. You seem to forget he came back from Japan with a parasite, starting off the season ill and he only got worse as more symptoms showed up. If you want to pick on an underachieving first baseman, pick last year's MVP runner-up, Carlos Delgado.
 -- Stephen, Nassau, Bahamas

Fair point, though Delgado has picked up his game in the second half. I'm not so sure Giambi picked up the parasite in Japan. I do know this: His body is breaking down, and it's not just due to a parasite.

In reference to making John Smoltz a postseason starter, you're right that probably wouldn't work, but what about the Cubs using their odd-man-out starter as the closer if they make the playoffs? It seems like Matt Clement or any of the others would make a much better closer than LaTroy Hawkins.
 -- Charles Starkey, Reston, Va.

Now that's an interesting idea. Remember when Atlanta's Greg Maddux came out of the pen to close Game 5 of the 1998 NLCS at San Diego? I like the idea, especially if you can get the starter enough warmup time and get him to start an inning. Don't rush him into a game with runners on. The only downside I see to that is you're telling Hawkins you don't trust him, and maybe that causes you to lose a valuable arm in your pen. I would plan to close with Hawkins, but if I thought there was an eighth-inning spot, say with no outs, where he was my best option, I might take the risk of using him there, knowing that Clement is sitting there if I need help for the ninth.

With the additions of Ivan Rodriguez and Carlos Guillen, the Tigers have made significant strides this season. What free agents do you see them having a realistic chance of acquiring for next season?
 --- Frank Marentette, Pain Court, Ontario

MAILBAG
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I think one good fit would be Derek Lowe, the Michigan native. I don't see him going back to Boston, not when they need to keep Jason Varitek and Pedro Martinez. I think they will be in the pursuit of Carl Pavano as well.

Is it Art Howe's fault the Mets have underperformed this year? A slew of injuries certainly has been a problem. The Kaz Matsui experiment was a failure, although I wouldn't give up on him yet. If they do fire Howe, what are the chances pitching coach Rick Peterson stays around? One small step for them to improve would be to get rid of Mike Piazza. He can't play behind the plate, he can't play first. It's time to rid them of this albatross.
 -- Tom Q., Sudbury, Ontario

Yes, the Mets have had injuries, but every team does, and it seems like the Mets give in to the injuries as an excuse. I see zero fight in this team. They don't have any idea what it means to keep grinding, and that starts with the manager. He's not a bad manager, but he's a bad manager for this team and this town at this time. Just not a good fit.

Last week when the Mets had optional early hitting, only four players showed up. Four! That's a disgrace. The Mets need to change the whole rotten culture there. Howe is only part of the problem. They need to get rid of veterans who can't stay motivated, such as Piazza (they'll need to eat a huge chunk of his contract to move him to an AL team) and even Al Leiter. As for Peterson, he's not going anywhere. A new manager will have to inherit him.

Do you think the Dolphins have any chances this season with the problems they have had? Like with Ricky Williams. Do you think the choice Dave Wannstedt made about the starting quarterback was right? Thank you.
 -- Julian Moreno, Miami

Now this is a unique question, folks. I'm sure Julian must also have dropped a note to Peter King to ask about the Red Sox's chances. But hey, I'm game. Nothing is out of bounds in the Mailbag. The Dolphins have no shot this year without that loser Williams. And if you're going to yank your starting QB just one game into the season, then you did a lousy job of evaluation all through camp and the preseason. That's a poorer reflection on the coach than it is Jay Fiedler.

Sports Illustrated senior writer Tom Verducci covers baseball for the magazine and is a regular contributor to SI.com.

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