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At it again

Mighty Mariners quietly pick up right where they left off

Posted: Monday April 15, 2002 12:19 PM
Updated: Tuesday April 16, 2002 3:47 AM


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By John Donovan, CNNSI.com

When you're good, it doesn't matter what time of the year it is, where you're playing or who's in the other dugout. When you're good, all the hype doesn't matter. When you're good, the heaviest expectations are from your own clubhouse.

The Seattle Mariners, maybe the best team in baseball during the 2001 regular season, are back at it. They tweaked their roster in the offseason, geared up in the spring and have come out in April looking like a team that could, if some things go right, win 116 games all over again.

True, 116 is a lofty goal. But the Mariners are unflappable. Monday, they won their eighth consecutive game in finishing off a sweep of the Texas Rangers and now have won 11 of their past 13 games since an Opening Day loss to the Oakland A's. If that's not impressive enough, consider this: That eight-game streak has come entirely on the road.

Now that may not be surprising, really. The M's were the best team on the road last season, setting an American League record with their 59-22 record away from Safeco Field. That record, you may remember, was better than any team's home record.

The point is, the Mariners keep doing it. All sorts of ways.

Their starters, before Sunday, had a streak of five straight starts in this streak in which they went 5-0 with a 3.07 ERA. Their bullpen has allowed just two earned the last 23 innings.

And even when the starters fade or the bullpen burps, as happened Sunday against the Rangers, the Mariners come back. Six runs in the seventh and two in the eighth did it Sunday. The Mariners have now had six come-from-behind wins and have scored three or more runs in an inning 14 times in 13 games. During the streak, the team is hitting .339 and averaging more than seven runs a game.

"Everything that we do goes bad," Texas first baseman Rafael Palmeiro said Sunday, "and everything that they do goes right."

That's how it works when you're good.

The Indians own the Twins
If Major League Baseball were a prison drama, and the Indians the toughest guys on the cellblock -- they have won 10 straight -- we all know what part the Twins would be playing. And it wouldn't be pretty. After a four-game sweep in Cleveland last week -- and a going-over last season, too (Indians 14, Twins 5 in 2001) -- Minnesota better think about doing something drastic before the word spreads around the ol' jailhouse.
The hiccupping Yanks
They had a seven-game winning streak followed by a four-game losing streak. They're only 2-2 against the Blue Jays, for crying out loud, and they have to win Monday afternoon to break even with the Red Sox in this four-game series. In the AL East, with this team, the Yankees were supposed to be up by four or five games at this point. They're not. Hee hee.
Those poor Tigers
We feel it necessary to inform you, as an official duty of the WAAG, that through Sunday the Detroit Tigers now have lost 11 straight games, which puts new manager Luis Pujols one loss away from equaling the record that got former skipper Phil Garner ash-canned. Yeah, we know you probably don't care about the Tigers and that you probably can't name more than a couple players on the team anyway. Still, it's news. We've done our duty.

  10-0, 3.88   The record and ERA for the starting rotation of the Cleveland Indians in the team's first 12 games this season. The Indians are on a 10-game winning streak.

Hero: Michael Barrett, Expos
Had five RBIs last week in a game against the Marlins, turned around the next time out and drove in six more runs. He's hitting .441 with four homers and 15 RBIs. Barry who?
Bum: Brady Anderson, Indians
Where would the Indians be if Anderson could hit at all? Since a ninth-inning single against Detroit on April 6th, the Cleveland outfielder is 0-for-19.
Hero: Shea Hillenbrand, Red Sox
The Boston third baseman drove in 10 runs and had four homers in the week and is hitting .385. He came up big Saturday against the Yanks with three hits, a homer and three RBIs.
Bum: Julio Franco, Braves
Yeah, this was supposed to be a much livelier Braves lineup. Lots of firepower in this baby. First baseman Franco has one hit in 20 at-bats this season (.050). In one extra-inning loss to the Phillies last week, Franco grounded to the shortstop four straight times -- then struck out.

Kazuhisa Ishii, LHP, Dodgers
He's started two games, he hasn't given up a run, he's allowed only four hits -- yeah, he can pitch. The fact that he's 28 and pitched for 10 years in Japan, where he averaged more than a strikeout an inning and was an All-Star who pitched in six of the last 10 Japan Series Championships … well, all that has to help. And, like compatriot Ichiro Suzuki last season, he's a rookie! Is this a great country, or what?

      Our tribute to the banter of baseball
 
"We have to take care of business, whatever you want to call it. They're throwing hard in, we are going to throw harder in. You understand?"

-- Minnesota manager Ron Gardenhire, after a beanball skirmish against the Indians.

This week, our soon-to-be ex-Canadian hero hit only .230 with but one homer and just three RBIs. He scored five runs, though. He's hitting .283 for the season, with two homers and 11 RBIs. That Barrett's evidently stealing his thunder. But, hey, it's early and Vlad can put up some numbers in a hurry. We're not worried.

 vs. 
Friday-Sunday, Hubert H. Humphrey Metrodome, Minneapolis
This is for sure: The Twins will not let the Indians get away with what they got away with last year. Let alone last week. Cleveland outscored the Twinkies -- and the Indians have earned the right to call their AL Central opponents that -- 31-15 last week in their first four-game sweep of the Twinkies since 1994. This after the 14-5 season shellacking the Indians gave the Twinks last season. The final game last week featured a couple of plunked batters as the Twinks tried to stand up to all the bullying. They want to stand up, they need to win a couple games at their home park this weekend. Or kiss that pennant race goodbye.
 

Last week, we asked folks to play the part of owners and give us their take on who they'd pick for their team: Barry Bonds or Ken Griffey Jr., in their primes. We don't pretend to be scientific about this, but we will say that each guy has his fans. Check it out below to see what we mean.

This week the WAAG asks about your favorite rivalries: Yanks-Red Sox? Indians-Twins? D'backs-Giants? Mets-Braves? Astros-Cards? We'll get to that interleague junk later. Click here to tell us what your favorite rivalry is WITHIN THE SAME LEAGUE, why that's your fave and any special remembrances you have. And, please, remember to include your name and hometown.

Now on to what you had to say on picking between Mr. Bonds and Mr. Griffey …

I would take Barry Bonds. He could very well be just now hitting HIS prime. 73 is a lot better than the fifty something Ken Griffey hit. I also don't believe he would make up that difference with his glove.
-- Gary E. Robinson, Belton, Missouri

I would pick neither, because both are team-corrosive individuals who have never, ever led their teams past the first round in any postseason.
-- Steve Watkins, Louisville, Ky.

High averages, great power, lots of speed on the bases, great defense. That describes both Jr. and Barry. If I have to pick one, give me Jr. just because of the public perception that he is a good guy and Barry isn't. If I own the team, I want all the good publicity I can get.
-- David Slawson, Fort Smith, Ark.

If we're talking "primes of their careers," we're basically talking Bonds now, and Griffey sometime between '96-'99. Thinking along those lines, despite Bonds' incredible production the past two seasons, I'd take Griffey, because he'd be in his late twenties (as opposed to Bonds' late thirties), and I'd have no clue about his propensity towards nagging injuries or desertion of cities which idolize him. I'd end up regretting my choice, but realistically, without a crystal ball, I'd pick Junior.
-- Chris Wright

It's a great question for debate, but I would have to say Ken Griffey Jr. He was by far the best at his position in his prime and he was on stride, as some believed, to be on of the games all-time greats. By the way, isn't Barry Bonds a better player now than he was in his "prime"...at least now he is more mature and under control.
-- Amol Kapur, Hamilton, Ontario, Canado

Since we are comparing IN THEIR PRIME, I'm all over Griffey, and for one glaring reason. In complete honesty, Junior's prime is comparable to Bonds' prime years (the only difference is Bonds is hitting versus even MORE diluted pitching and even MORE juiced balls). But what it comes down to here is character, that nasty C word Bonds knows nothing about. Sure, Griffey isn't Mr. Personality these days, but I give him the benefit of the doubt when he claims that his injuries and losing are a large contributor. And there is Barry "Show me the money, stocks and" Bonds, having the greatest season of ANY major leaguer EVER, on a team in the playoff race until the last week last year, still being as cold to the fans and media as he was back in Pittsburgh. (Hey Barry! You don't see Griff whine because he has that same girly voice you do!) Oh yeah, Bonds makes a wonderful poster boy for my ticket sales and a catalyst in the locker room. Right... I'll stick with Griffey there.
-- Chris Lindy, Evansville, Ind.

Griffey vs. Bonds … Hmm ... interesting choice. Two guys who put up great numbers (in their prime) yet, even surrounded by other talented guys, can't make a dent in the post-season. What to do? I think I'll take Jeter. (And, as a Boston fan, it really pains me to say that.)
-- Tim Burnell, Dover, N.H.

Between Bonds and Griffey Junior in the prime of their careers ... I'd have to go with Bonds on this one ... The only conceivable reason to go with Griffey here is that he's six years younger. I just don't see Griffey performing the way Bonds is now when Junior turns 37 or 38. Bonds is a better hitter (career OPS, BB/K, etc.), still no slouch on the basepaths, and while he may not be winning Gold Gloves anymore, is a very solid fielder. As for the clubhouse presence stuff, it's probably overrated anyway, and Junior isn't exactly Mr. Congeniality either. The opportunity to sign the greatest player of our time is not one I'd pass up for Junior Griffey ... Now, A-Rod or a Vlad Guerrerro, that's an interesting choice.
-- Roji Oommen, New York, N.Y.

I would have to take Griffey over Bonds. Both players have the whole package, but Griffey's defensive skills are (or were) a bit better. The power to all fields, hit for average, RBIs and stolen bases. Bonds gets the nod in being more patient at the plate, but Griffey's arm would offset that.
-- Jeff Lanctot, Orlando, Fla.

I would take Junior in a heartbeat. Statistically, they match up roughly evenly, with the offensive nod going slightly to Bonds (although Griffey is right there with him) while defensively Griffey gets the nod. But it's the intangible -- clubhouse presence/attitude -- that makes me pick Griffey over Bonds. Sorry Giants fans.
-- Shawn Megathlin, Cumberland, Maine

Difficult question. What do you consider Barry's prime, back when he was a great hitter and a speedster on the bases, or now when he's cranking the long ball like no one else? Are we taking their salaries from their primes into consideration? Anyway, I have to take Barry no matter how you answer my questions. He is truly one of the greatest hitters the game has ever seen, and he brings more speed and/or power than Griffey, depending on which way we're looking at it. And since the personality factor is a wash on both … Barry all the way.
-- Jonathan Owen, Tiffin, Ohio

I'd have to say that despite all logic, Barry appears to be in his prime right now, while Junior is on the injured list. But back when Junior was in his prime and was the only one wearing his cap backwards? Toughie. But, Barry just put up the best offensive season in baseball and despite his accomplishments, Junior hasn't done that. On the field, you are comparing two gold Glove winners. I'd take Bonds.
-- Marc Aaron, Originally NYC but now, Shanghai China

I would definitely take Griffey. First off he's a center fielder, and the best one of the 90s for that matter. And consistency wise, he has been far superior, just take a look at the stats! You could pencil in about .290 with 45-50 HRs every year. With Bonds, he really didn't start developing his power until he got out of Pittsburgh and by that time, in reality, he was out of his prime (which is said to be 27-29). He was definitely a late bloomer. And I know his steals should count for something, but in today's game, the stolen base has taken a back seat to the long ball. Last but not least, you have to have the defense to win championships. They are probably close to being equal defensively as far as tracking down and catching the ball, but Griffey has a far better arm, hands down! There really was no comparison, Griffey was the man, and I am more than sure that he will one day be the man again, while I feel Bonds has two good years left, then it's time to go.
-- Jason Halstead, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Wow, what a tough question. Bonds or Junior in their prime. Last year I checked out Bonds' career numbers compared to Willie Mays'. Barry fares very well. He may be as good a hitter as has ever played the game. But I'd still take Griffey, because he can hit with Bonds and he'll steal some games for you with his glove.
-- Stephen Stamp, North Vancouver, British Columbia

Gotta go with Griffey!!! Reason being he is younger and we may not have seen him in the prime of his career yet. If we have seen him at his best then the two are very comparable. But who is to say that like Bonds, Griffey is going to get better with age?
-- Scott Elam, Highland Heights, Ky.

Bonds over Griffey, it's simple. Look at the numbers. Bonds, in his prime (last year), put up the best offensive numbers in baseball history!!!!!! And it looks he might challenge that again. People don't even want to pitch to him! Look at the walks!!! His numbers belong to a Playstation game! I don't think I'd rather have anybody else!
-- Ernesto Ruiz-Garcia, Minneapolis, Minn.

If I am the manager of a baseball team, I believe I would choose Barry Bonds any day over Ken Griffey Jr. for two reasons. Barry in his prime was not only a threat to steal, hit for average, hit for power but he could beat you even by walking. Ken Griffey was a threat to hit the ball out of the park or take advantage of hitter friendly Kingdome. I think Bonds was a more versatile player while Junior was just a homer threat.
-- A Mehta

Based on the numbers, I'd pick Barry Bonds in his prime over Ken Griffey Jr. in his prime. I know that Bonds has the reputation for being the more selfish player and sulkier clubhouse presence. But even without his amazing 2001 season, Bonds consistently topped Griffey in Slugging and On-base Pct. in their best years. Griffey posted an OPS of over 1.000 or better in four seasons, while Bonds topped 1.000 in OPS a whopping nine times (including 2001). I also note that Bonds gives you more stolen bases than Griffey, and I figure they're about even with the glove. Bonds' better offense, in my view, more than makes up for any improvement in personality you'd get with Junior.
-- Loren Fox, New York, N.Y.

Ken Griffey Jr. because he just seem to make everyone around him play better plus Bonds just doesn't have many friends in the clubhouse.
-- Don Pangburn, Cleveland, Ohio

I'd have to pick Griffey Jr. only because of the attitude factor. Bonds has had problems with teammates and the press. I don't dislike Bonds for the things he's said or done, but I know that those things haven't always sat well with the other players. Also, Bonds being "missing" come playoff time. Griffey Jr. in his prime just seemed to have it all! Bonds seemed to have it all as well plus a little chip on the shoulder. Therefore, Junior by a nose.
-- Tom Edghill, Syracuse,N.Y.

Griffey or Bonds? You might as well ask Mantle or Mays. You can make arguments either way, and neither side will be wrong. I personally, and this is only my opinion, of course, would take Griffey. He hit for roughly the same average as Bonds, but from 1996-2000. Griffey averaged 50 HRs a season, and hit over 40 HRs seven full seasons in a row. Bonds has never come close to that. Granted, Bonds is racking up big numbers now, but in his prime, Griffey was a player that everyone wanted on his team, while Bonds has been, and always will be a 24-1 player on his teams. Griffey is possibly the best defensively centerfielder ever, Bonds ... ehhhhh. Also, have you ever seen Bonds take a hometown discount in his contract? Didn't think so.
-- Frank Colletti, Rockville Centre, N.Y.

I'd take Barry Bonds over Ken Griffey every time. Bonds is headed to be the most consistently productive player of all times. The Pirates and the S.F. Giants have always been competitive whenever Bonds has played for them, despite the non-willingness of the owners to catch the prime free agents available. I don't feel compelled to dislike Bonds because he has not been nice to some people (especially reporters). I enjoy watching his performance in the playing fields, not his socializing abilities after the game.
-- Efrain Reyes, Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic

Bonds by a mile. He comes to play every day [at least no extended injuries], puts up huge numbers, and provides plenty of game-winning bombs. Griffey has all the tools and HAD all the potential. Then he decided he had to go to Cincy, and it's never been the same for him. The proof was shown when Seattle improved after he left. If the Giants had not re-signed Bonds this year, they would not have started the season 6-0. Bonds over Griffey any day.
-- Paul Quiroga, Santa Clara, Calif.

Let's see, if I remember correctly, it was about 5 years ago that a major sporting mag tipped its cap to Barry but said it was now time for Griffey Jr. to ascend to the throne. Your question is no question at all. Bonds was the better player in the "prime" of his career and is the better player in the prime of Griffey's career. By the way, when a guy has the second best season in baseball history, isn't it pretty safe to say that he's still in his prime? This must be a personal hangup of WAAG's, as I doubt you'll see many votes for Junior, who besides his inferiority on the field is twice the whining jerk Barry ever was.
-- Ragnar Carlson, Honolulu

Bonds-Griff? That's easy. Bonds ranks as the best left fielder of all time because of his stellar defense, and oh yeah, he hits a bit too. Even in bonds' first prime he won more MVPs than Junior has in his career; his latest power surge is just icing on the cake. Sure Griff is great, but even his best will never rank anywhere near the best at his position all-time. Wait … isn't Mr. Bonds STILL in the prime of his career? I pick him, and the 150 homers that he will hit this season, as opposed to the 150 days on the DL of Mr. Griffey.
-- Martin Rotemberg

Perhaps my view is colored by Griffey showing himself to be fragile in his maturing years, but: Bonds v Griffey? Has to be Bonds (assuming you couldn't, in a salary capless world, have both). Once you get past the so-called surliness, I just don't think there is any evidence that Ken Griffey has been as valuable to his teams as Bonds has been to his on a day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month basis. And don't those advertisements from a few years back, showing Griffey chasing a fly ball virtually around the world, seem like a lifetime (or two) ago?
-- Mark Melickian

Well, this is kind of a pickle. I'm a native of Pittsburgh and a huge Bucs fan which is automatically synonymous with "Bonds hater" for reasons obvious to anybody heralding from the three rivers. So I have a choice between a man who viciously spurned and degraded our city when he left, though we gave him seven years of love even after he continually instigated his own "Operation Shutdown," and Griffey who went from telling SI in August 1994 that Pittsburgh was a place where he'd love to play ball and then five years later calling us a "terrible city" and one (of the many) places where he'd refuse to be traded. (Don't let anyone tell you Pirates fans don't hold a grudge). However, the fact is both players are remarkably talented and have proven track records of regular-season success (neither player is championship material for whatever reason), though Griffey's got the edge on D. Since a defensively top-of-the-line CF with a power bat as well as good speed is often a more critical need than a defensively not-quite-top-of-the-line LF who has only slightly better offensive numbers I might be inclined to go with Griffey. But Pokey, a player who actually wants to play in the 'Burgh, didn't seem to have much love for Griff the past couple years so in the end I'd choose Bonds, the devil I know over the devil I don't, and shift him to right where all good Pirate malcontents since Bonilla seem to set up shop.
-- Patrick Byers, Ithaca, N.Y.

Lastly, because he did the research, we allow a little space to the following user, who was a little late in taking up sides in the Owners vs. Players question of a couple of weeks ago. We're not vouching for these numbers, but here goes …

Actually, I'm answering last week's question, about Players vs. Owners. Actually, not so much answering it as illuminating it. According your story, Major League Baseball salaries now top $2 billion, which means that 849 players have a combined payroll larger than the Gross Domestic Product of the following countries:

  • Andorra: $1.2B
    Antigua and Barbuda $533M
    Cape Verde: $670M
    Comoros: $419M
    Djibouti: $574M
    Dominica: $290M
    Equatorial Guinea: $970M
    The Gabon: $1.5B
    Guinea-Bissau: $1.1B
    Kiribati: $76M
    Liechtenstein: $730M
    Maldives: $594M
    Marshall Islands: $105M
    The Federated States of Micronesia: $263M
    Nauru: $59M
    Palau: $129M
    St. Kitts and Nevis: $244M
    St. Lucia: $656M
    St. Vincent and The Grenadines: $309M
    Samoa: $485M
    San Marino: $500M
    São Tomé and Príncipe: $169M
    Seychelles: $590M
    Solomon Islands: $1.21B
    Suriname: $1.48B
    Tonga: $238M
    Tuvalu: $7.8M
    Vanuatu: $245M
    Vactican City: $209M (their yearly budget rather than GDP, per se)
  • Or, to put it another way, altogether those 849 players make more than Tuvalu, Nauru, Kiribati, the Marshall Islands, Palau, São Tomé and Príncipe, St. Kitts and Nevis, Tonga, Vanuatu, the Federated States of Micronesia, and St. Vincent and The Grenadines combined. There are at least 25 major league players (and almost certainly more: you didn't list anyone whose salary was less than $10M a year) who each make more than the GDP of Tuvalu.
    -- Lawrence Person

     
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