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A unique take on sports news, updated several times throughout the day.
Is the Mike Vick outrage out of proportion?Consider that on Tuesday, Rawlings joined Nike and Reebok in dumping Vick. Even more strikingly, Upper Deck said it was removing Vick trading cards from its NFL sets to be released in October. Basically, Upper Deck has declared him an NFL non-person, like in some Cold War-era Communist regime. Can't the card company at least wait until Vick is suspended by the league, never mind actually convicted of a crime, before pretending that Vick the player doesn't even exist? Yes, Vick had already eroded some of his benefit of the doubt over the past year or so by flipping off his home fans and showing up at airport security with a souped-up water bottle, though he wasn't charged with anything in the latter case. Still, it seems that the charges of cruelty against man's best friend has stoked the outrage to a nearly unprecedented level. It wasn't all that long ago, remember, that Kobe Bryant was charged with raping a woman. His sponsors (including Nike) stood by him and the NBA chose not to suspend him until after the justice system had its say. Bryant certainly faced hecklers and intense media scrutiny up until (and after) the charges were ultimately dropped because the accuser did not want to go through with a trial. But he was never buried as thoroughly as Vick is being buried right now. The NFL, too, has clearly had its share of thugs well before the charges against Vick. This April the San Diego Union-Tribune compiled a list of 308 arrests and citations against NFL players, including some 50 arrests for domestic violence or violence against women just since 2000. Defensive end Leonard Little killed a woman while driving drunk in 1998, and six years later was arrested again for drunken driving, yet never received the public opprobrium that Vick has. (Little even signed a three-year extension with the Rams last winter.) None of those players was run out of the NFL and Madison Avenue on a rail like Vick has been the last few weeks. Frankly, I don't feel too badly for Vick's "plight." If he's found guilty of the unsettling charges against him, he deserves whatever punishment he's allotted. If the Falcons want to sit him down until his trial is over so he can focus on his defense and the team can focus on football, that sounds reasonable. It doesn't really seem like the NFL's place to sit Vick down now, though Goodell obviously is trying to set a get-tough tone with the league that is generally laudable. Still, it would be better if society's disgust meter reacted this strongly to violent crimes (or alleged crimes) against humans -- especially women -- as it evidently does to crimes against canines.
posted by SI.com | View comments |
Comments:that might be the best entry ever...
I'm sure if Vick was accused of Hanging, Electrocuting, or Slamming baby girls to their death, the public would be just as outraged.
There is a difference between Vick and Little. Even though Little killed someone, it was a stupid decision to drive drunk and an accident. Not to mention, drinking is a disease.
What Vick did took planning and covered a span of years (and money). He intentionally killed those dogs. I can't blame the companies for dumping Vick. If they no longer wish their product associated with him (either convicted in court or not), that is their decision. Those are business decisions with have nothing to do with innocent or guilt but instead can be driven by the court of public opinion instead.
Mark,
I really think you are missing Pete's point. How many cases do ignore when it comes to domestic abuse or sexual abuse. Society as a whole tends to overlook these serious issues (myself included) We tend to dismiss them as minor offenses. The next player that strikes a woman the public really needs to stand up. I completely agree. While what Vick allegedly did is despicable, it still isn't in the same class as the murder, rape, or abuse of a human. I've had trouble rationalizing Peter King's writings about Emmett Smith and Deion Sanders basically being idiots for what they have said, even though I didn't really take their quotes to be in defense of Vick. Although I love reading his work, I think Peter is one that has gotten so caught up in it that he has lost perspective.
Amen, Amen. I was just talking about this with other folks yesterday. I love dogs and dogfighting is disgusting but hurting and killing people is much, much worse. Even with the "pre-meditated" aspect of the allegations against Vick.
true...but these dogs were born into a life destined for death. there was no way they could defend themselves or be removed from it. it's why america reacts similar in regards to a kidnapping or child endangerment. front page cnn today has a woman that abandoned 3 babies over a 33 month time span. these are helpless people, and helpless dogs. comparing raped women to a puppy being terrorized by drunks is like apples to oranges.
also, who is leondard little. there are thousands of pro football players, yet probably only 50 could create a media frenzy like this. only the ones already despised by america can bring out a rage like this. I'm sure Farve has shot a dog on his farm, Farve could probably hang a dog from a tree and America would forgive. Vick's outrage is a product of the past years culminating with these charges. It's a water bottle (which we all know didn't contain jewelry) and flipping off your fans. Add that with defending a deadbeat brother and a "gang" of friends that are always in trouble. Throw in some "salty" interviews with the media, and a general "i'm the man" attitude he wears around and you have a ticking time bomb. He's done, these companies wouldn't be dropping him if the charges weren't air tight. Good bye Vick. I agree, it would be better if society's disgust meter reacted this strongly to violent crimes (or alleged crimes) against humans -- especially women. The only thing is, humans have the choice of leaving a bad sitution. Canines, and other pet's do not have that same choice.
Dificult to feel any sympathy for Michael Vick. He has been a thug in Atlanta for a long time.
Here is what I find interesting: how does a player have endorsement deals with BOTH Nike and Reebok at the same time? Rich,
Drinking is not a disease. I drink all the time. I wish I was drinking now. Oh well, my lunch break is in 35 minutes anyway. Pete, I completely agree. I always hear about domestic abuse charges but no one seems to care if women get hurt. The only time I've ever seen anything done about domestic abuse charges is when Houston gave Julio Lugo his outright release after he was accused of beating his wife (slamming her head against the hood of his car)before a game. stupid PETA and all those animal rights activists, they arent going after the other people in this trial, just vick. PETA is a bunch of egotistical explative deleted.
You miss the point. The sponsors should've dropped Kobe when he raped that girl, they appropriately dropped Vick and they should drop any athlete with criminal/reprehensible behavior. They ought to put a behavior clause in the player's contract that allows the team/sponsor to void the contract if the player is charged with a crime (a conviction shouldn't be necessary). You could be certain such a clause would reign in the Vicks, Kobes, Ron Artests etc.
I don't know why people get more upset over abuse of animals than they do over abuse of other human beings, but it's been my observation that a person who abuses animals is much more likely to abuse other people as well. Perhaps not physically, but they are still abusive. I can't back that up with any statistics, but it still seems to be true.
I can't blame the companies (or the NFL) for dumping Vick. If they no longer wish their product associated with him (either convicted in court or not), that is their decision. Those are business decisions with have nothing to do with innocent or guilt but instead can be driven by the court of public opinion instead.
Insert applause here.
Bang on, especially the Kobe Bryant analogy. I think its sickening what Vick is accused of doing to these dogs, but I find the reactions out of proportion when compared to what other athletes have done. Whether the reactions in Vick's case are right, and the other reactions too subdued or vice versa is a matter of debate. In isolation, I think the snubbing of Vick is fine, I would have been more than satisfied if people had stood up the same way when Kobe was accused of rape. Not sure what the difference is. You people in the Media are such followers! I am waiting for one of you, JUST ONE OF YOU, to follow up on the 2 year ban given to Odel Thurman. Now based on what we know, it is not consistent at all. Not when you see a guy like Jared Allen get only a two game ban when he received 2 DUI's within a 5 month window, or Pacman Posse puts someone in the wheelchair, or Tank Johnsons lifestyle cost a person their life. But none of them guys face a 2 year ban.
i think domestic violence among football players gets over looked alot because we expect these players to be violent people, they play a violent sport and we just see the abuse as a by product,
where as with vick,what he allegedly did speaks more of a sadistic inner cruelty. and i couldnt agree with you more about how vick is being thoroughly buried, and is sad that we dont see athletes who are convicted of violent crimes against people recieving the same treatment as vick I totally agree, but I guess if a man beats a woman some people brush that aside with the toughts that maybe she did to deserve it. I fell any man who raises his hand to a woman is a coward but I think soceity reacts differently towards human abuse than animal abuse because humans do things to one another that sometimes deserves a beating. But what can animals do to deserve that kind of treatment?
i forgot who asked how one player could be sponsored by Reebok and Nike it as simple as the corporte machine known as the NFL. Reebok is corporate sponser kind of like Gatordade. Which is why Urlacher got fined for wearing a Vitamn water hat.
Pete, your comments on the Vick situation are well grounded, but the unbalanced outrage from the American public is largely caused by the media's treatment of the case. The public will react strongly to whatever the media pushes on it.
There was a great deal of outrage over the Duke lacrosse scandal - because it initially looked like a horrible crime - but also because no sports fan could escape it. Similarly, with the Rutgers womens basketball team, the initial outrage presented by the media resulted in outrage from the public - for a far less offensive action than killing dogs. And the reason companies are dropping Vick as their sponsor is the same reason companies dropped Don Imus, they don't want to be associated with someone the public dislikes. It's not Nike's job to withold judgement until there's a verdict and try to convince their consumers to do the same. If they feel he's no longer marketable they should dump him. Kobe was charged in a small town by a small town sheriff with a victim whose story had a ton of holes in it. Im not saying he didnt do it, but 2 days into the allegations it was apparent that there was no way they were going to get a conviction. And lets face it, if every athlete that ever screwed around on their wife was dumped by their sponsors, there wouldnt be names on 90 percent of the jerseys out there.
It is absolutely the sponsors right to do business with whoever they choose. Its their product. Its their money. And in the big picture, Mike Vick has a lot bigger problems right now than wether or not Rawlings is paying him. He probably should be more worried about his former posse thug buddy rolling over on him. Amen. Especially the last paragraph.
Well, what I'd say too is that these are probably the most lurid, disgusting charges made against an athlete thus far. In terms of sheer criminality, it's not really up there with, say, Rae Carruth having his girlfriend whacked, or certainly the Kobe Bryant case, but there's a real viseral, vile feeling to this. He's being accused of taking dogs and abusing them from the moment of their birth, training them to be killers, and killing them in brutal ways if they don't kill well enough.
Another factor here: if we compare this to Kobe Bryant, there was a sort of competing narrative at the same time that gave people pause to wonder "Could this girl just be making this up?" It's probably not right, but there was that element of doubt about the victim there. You can't question the motives of Vick's victims here. You know it just shows how much race matters in Amerikkka. This man has been convicted of nothing yet they have persecuted him. Why didn't we see Peta protest the goverments response to Hurricane Katrina? Why didn't they protest the Jenna 6? Congressman Byrd is crying about this being barbaric. Barbaric is placing animal life above humans. This country has done that to its minorites since its inception. Thats Barbaric.
We are a group of people who love animals so much that we believe evryone else should. What Vick did however bad it is, should not have resulted in this form of backlash. If one commits a crimal act then the justice system deal with them. PETA and such group of animal lovers who make it their business to police the humanity of animals fueled the backlash by writing to Vick sponsors and vick employee as thought these organisation werent aware of it. Nike and others make business decisions, if vicks image doesnt sell merchandise they would get rid of him. They end a lot of sponsorship every year regardless of if the player is a dog fighter or not, its strictly a business decision. There is always another vick waiting to replace him and make more money for Nike and others. Vick or anyone else for that matter doesnt deserve this kind of treatment, criminal should be punished but to villify Vick as though he has raped a woman, or killed a man is just wrong. And if we dont think its is wrong then we need to always stand up and be counted against human cruelty just as much as we stand up against animal cruelty. We can't just always take a passive role and become so desensitized to human cruelty. If only we would cry out against human toture in the world as we did againt this vick thing.
I think the difference between the Kobe situation and the Vick situation is: Kobe had an "alter boy" image at the time of his incident, whereas Vick has been spiraling downward for the past year.
Starting with the Ron Mexico herpes fiasco, the "bird" in Atlanta after a Falcon loss, then add the Miami water bottle incident... his transgressions were starting to add up. Don't get me started on the water bottle event. Tell me how the Miami police can on one day say it will be 4-6 weeks before the residue inside the bottle can be tested, then two days later say it was tested and it came out negative... AND they destroyed the federal video evidence of the event? Sounds fishy to me. I think someone was paid off there... just like when Vick paid off an unnamed man to not file charges against his buddy after he stole the man's Rolex from an airport security bin... which was also caught on tape... while Michael and said thug were traveling on AirTran's dime. Rich: Alcoholism is a disease; drinking is not. There is a huge difference.
And Smart Alec: First of all, I can't imagine that there isn't a bad PR clause in sponsorship contracts, and we all know there's "bad for the team" clauses in playing contracts. Second of all, you ignore the fact that the world is not black and white - just as failing to be convicted doesn't make you innocent, being accused doesn't make you guilty. Dismissing someone cannot be based solely on a charge or an accusation when we all know that charges are brought aren't always accurate and accusers can lie; your's is the mindset that took away a year of the Duke lacrosse players' lives. I'm NOT saying that is what happened in this case, nor am I disputing Pete's very good points. The leagues cannot ignore the facts of any given case, whether they bring down or exonerate a player. well done pete. this change from the old ten spot is offering you chances to spotlight your writing.. keep up the good work
The outrage at Vick stems from the seemingly insurmountable evidence against him. Any legal analyst will tell you, with this number of cooperating witnesses and the physical evidence the feds have uncovered, Vick is up a creek. Vick is being convicted in the court of public opinion so quickly because he's virtually assured of being convicted in the court of law. The same could not be said of Kobe, the evidence wasn't nearly as damning in his case. If you've actually read the indictment against Vick, it becomes clear that his legal team has a snowball's chance of getting an acquittal.
I agree with those who have said that Nike and other companies have every right to drop Vick and other athletes from sponsorship deals, at least within the constraints of whatever contract they signed. It's not incumbent on them to wait for a conviction, for example, but to make a judgment about whether being associated with that athlete hurts their bottom line (and thus shareholders). That's fine with me.
However, the question I was asking is why companies seem to have jumped off the Vick bandwagon so quickly and thoroughly, especially compared to past instances of star players charged with violent crimes. Clearly, as someone noted, these companies are responding to the public outrage. So then the question is, why does that public outrage seem so much greater in this case? That was the issue I was exploring in this post. As for the media coverage, while that may well play into stoking the level of public outrage somewhat, I think it's more a reflection of it than a causative factor. I think many people have responded to the specific allegations in the indictment, especially the allegations of killing the dogs in such cruel fashion, rather than media finger-wagging declaring that such behavior is wrong. As for Vick being charged by a "small town sheriff," sorry, but this has gone well beyond that. This is a federal indictment and, regardless of how the case turns out or how much truth there is to the charges, reading the indictment should make it clear that there was a lot of research and investigation. This wasn't some small-town sheriff cooking up charges against a big star just to get on TV. --Pete This is purely speculative, but it is an ironic possibility:
By the language used in media reports, I'm guessing Upper Deck has already printed their trading cards for the upcoming football season (Vick will be "removed" from this season's sets). I would be surprised if Upper Deck successfully removed every last Vick card, but those few that are accidentally released would be rare--perhaps rare enough that the 2007 Upper Deck Michael Vick could become one of the most sought-after cards on the market! 3 words: Orenthal James Simpson - Never "convicted" of anything, and his violence was toward women (not dogs) but has anyone seen any new commercials or movie roles featuring the Juice lately? Or did I miss the news that he was convicted of beating his dog in addition to the whole "skating on murdering your wife" bit?
James (12:07),
Excellent points. I agree that the specific and very nasty details in the indictment (especially about the various methods by which the dogs were killed) have caused much of the visceral backlash against Vick. Plus there's something to be said for dogs being viewed as helpless victims deserving of our instinctive protection. Some posters have compared them in this respect to children, and certainly crimes or alleged crimes against children tend to carry a much greater stigma than even the same crimes against adults. Anyway, interesting points by many of you, let's try to keep the discussion going and reasonably on point. --Pete Crimes against living animals that depend on their owners for their basic existance are reprehensible and completely unacceptable. I hope Vick gets the maximum allowable penalty. The comments of Sanders and Smith show a complete lack of understanding of the issues and, evidently, the same disregard for the lives of animals shared by Vick. Kudos to Peter King for having ther guts to portray these callous comments for what they truly are.
The evidence is apparently very strong that Michael Vick tortured and killed dogs. True, there appears to be less outrage regarding violence against women, however this may be due to some women filing false claims wanting "revenge" or money. So when a man is accused of domestic violence, there sometimes was violence on both sides. However, a dog who is mistreated cannot be said to have initiated an attack.
Difference--Kobe's case was dropped. Vick's case is in a Grand Jury and you damn well know that to get to that level requires an almost air-tight case.
WRT comparing Little and everyone else's law-breaking activities to Vick... Remember, all of those problems/scandals got us to where we are now. The public is tired of the pampered athlete (and celebrity for that matter) who use their money and fame to get away with murder (literally in some cases). Roger Goodell has the good sense to understand that so comparing Vick to Little is apples to oranges. If Little killed that woman now, he'd be walking the Earth like Kung-Fu. Much of the outrage may have come from millions of animal lovers, but Dog Fighting is in fact very bad for people, not just dogs. There’s a reason it is a felony in most states and now a federal felony - it’s not just animal abuse. Dog Fighting has grown into a serious problem for American communities, black, white and Latino. Dog Fighting attracts illegal gambling, weapons, and drugs into our neighborhoods. The presence of fighting dogs increases the risk of attacks, especially on kids. Kids are also exposed to appallingly cruel training methods and fights, promoting insensitivity to animal suffering, enthusiasm for violence, and a lack of respect for the law. A subculture of dog fighting has grown among our professional athletes. Former NBA forward Qyntel Woods faced charges of dog fighting before pleading guilty to animal abuse in 2005 and former NFL running back LeShon Johnson pled guilty to three charges related to dog fighting in 2005 as well. (Johnson is currently serving a five year deferred sentence.) It’s time for professional sports to clearly define and enforce zero tolerance.
great article. it is way out of proportion. and guess what? that will work IN his favor...not against it. what about all the mis-treated dogs in kennels and pounds across america. tell you what, if i was a dog, i'd much rather have a go at it against another dog than sit in a cage my whole life until they give me a shot and i die anyway. dogs are wild animals. no, i don't agree with dogkilling or dogfighting, but there are much bigger issues in the human realm that aren't taken seriously. the fact that in some blogs vick and OJ are being mentioned in the same sentence is a total travesty. it shows how ignorant society is.
Part of the problem is we (society) are immune to domestic violence issues - they have been utterly commonplace with athletes today. That is a shame, and ditto for drinking & driving - does even a week go by that someone famous doesn't get busted?
But Vick's are the first (reported) of this kind, and the level of cruelty is appalling. Unlike most other crimes (passion), Vick's were premeditated. I can't wait to hear he gets his in prison. Blame the media Pete, not the public. As usual you are the ones who have done this by giving it front page space every day and the first news story to hit the airwaves. What is the public to think? I think the media should take a course in restraint before going bonkers on these types of stories. However, dog fighting is disgusting and only socially retarded, low IQ people would enjoy it (btw - take a look at the rocket scientists accused, there's a harvard class if i ever saw one) They should put all of them in a room with 2 of those dogs, lock the door and come back the next day and see how they enjoyed thier time in the dog fighting ring....
Interesting that a derogatory term for a woman is to call her a female dog....
I think it is outrageous the level of media attention is giving this. I am not trying to defend Vick as forcing animals with no choice to fight is horrible. But lets face it. Isn't any crime verse a human worse then verse an animal? For the amount of attention and money spent on this single case alone, how many people would that save if it was spent on hunger, or even getting the needed drugs to third world people.
I was outraged that earlier this year in Canada there was a pet food scandal in that tainted food was getting into the pet food that was being sold and something like 17 dogs and cats had died across Canada. This was a major story for over a week in the Canadian media, there was a public outcry, a federal investigation, and now millions of dollars will be spent each year to regulate pet food in Canada. My question is. How many pets each DAY get hit by a vehicle? 17 dogs and cats is nothing! Why can't society get our values straight? I really can't understand how people truly believe this about race. High prfile target yes, underground culture yes. One of the reason that the feds are going so hard after Vick is that he is relevant to the hip hop culture which for some reason has taken to dog fighting. NOtice I talk about hte hip hop culture and not black culture because they are not one in the same.
I think part of the reasoning behind this has to do with expectations. So many people labeled Vick the greatest player in the history of the NFL before he'd ever played a snap. Now, even before this, it was clear that he'd never come close to living up to the hype. So, there's some anger from the people who had made such lofty predictions, both because they're so ashamed to be wrong and because Vick didn't "change the game" like some expected him too.
There unfortunately also may be a racist or cultural element here. Kobe gets let off the hook when he's accused of a heinous crime because white America is comfortable with him. Before Colorado, many parents approved of their children looking up to Kobe as a role model. Michael Vick was given the level of fame and the endorsements he received based on his talent level alone. But did you ever hear him say anything in his commercials? How about Kobe in his ads? Different story, right? For much of America, Vick probably came across as "too black" not only with his speech but in his image, so a lot of people were probably waiting for the moment that he exhibited the thug behavior they expected out of someone with that image, whereas most people were truly shocked when Kobe was accused of rape. McEntegart says:
"Still, it would be better if society's disgust meter reacted this strongly to violent crimes (or alleged crimes) against humans -- especially women -- as it evidently does to crimes against canines." 1) All life is precious and valuable; Leonard Little should have been jailed after his drunken murder, and he should still be in jail today. Most certainly he shouldn't be making millions playing a game for a living. Kobe raped a woman - a horrible crime that he should be punished for - but he did not kill the girl. Additionally, we weren't there when the rape occurred - so we don't know how or if the young lady might have offered any enticement to the NBA superstar. We can be fairly sure, however, that none of Vick's dogs asked to be ripped to shreds in a 2-hour fight-for-their-lives, and then to be doused in water and electrocuted when they lost or performed poorly. 2) Vick's crimes are so abhorrant because they were perpetrated against innocent animals that had no say in their life circumstances. He forced them to fight for their lives, and those not performing up to expectations were not only killed, but tortured and terrorized as well. McEntegart seems to be working on the premise that a dog's life is inherently less valuable than a human's. It's this kind of thinking that allows jerks like Vick to so carelessly destroy life. McEntegart seems to think it's no big deal if some a@!hole like Vick brutalizes an animal for his own sick pleasure. I mean, it's only a dog, right? It's not like it was a person or anything . . . All I know is that, of all the a@#holes and jerks I have come across in 44+ years of living, not one of them has walked on four legs. For Vick, there is an especially hot place in hell awaiting him. He has gratuitously taken innocent life; he has played God with God's creatures. Anyone failing to see why people are so quick to dump him lacks either a brain or a heart - or both. I can find many faults with the media. However with all the sources of information I find it hard to believe that the media makes the story. seeing as most media are in the entertainment business they provide what we want to hear and see. So if you are like me and tired of hearing about frivolos news cahnge the channel. read other sites or newspaper or pickup a good book.
RE: "Is the Mike Vick outrage out of proportion?"
I belive it is. The only reason it is this big is because Vick is(was) one of the biggest faces of the NFL, which is the biggest sports league in the US. Either way, Vick deserves what he is getting, what he did to those dogs is horrible. I hope he never plays in the NFL again. On a side note, i have come to understand that americans care more about their pets than people. Ok maybe not your family and friends, but what about they guy down the street. Look at the amount of money spent on pets (over 34 billion in 2004). Meanwhile some 1 billion people live in extreme poverty (less than 1$ a day). America is a country of much and wastes money on many things, so i should not pick on pets, but so much more could be done for humans. This seems out of proportion compared to previous reactions by major sponsors, but maybe they've had enough? Maybe Nike, et. all., are jumping on the Commish's bandwagon and inserting a "no tolerance" policy for players.
At the very least it gets the Companies out of their contracts and saves them money (I'm sure they can terminate based upon a performance standard of some kind). Now if they could only pass some savings on to the consumers... I think it is utterly retarded that as a society we are more upset by animal cruelty than human abuses. I can only assume that we are conditioned to ignore human abuses by all forms of media because of the endless stream of occurrences of those violations. And to climb up on my soapbox: 1. Players need to learn to leave their "friends, posse, gang" whatever behind. Nothing good can come from those leaches. 2. The professional leagues need to mandate and enforce a strict code of conduct for players/personnel. This stuff needs to stop. 3. Players need to understand that playing their sport for a living is a privilege not a right and they should respect that privilege. Heaven forbid they actually have to work for their $25 million/year... The companies have a right to dump Vick, but finally someone points this information out.
Clearly, as a society, we only become outraged over what the media endlessly pounds into our brains. Wow Pete, I usually agree with your column but you are WAY of base here.
Bryant's case was dropped in criminal court only to be picked up in civil court. There could have and probably were ulterior motives in that case. Vick's case is solely in criminal court. OJ was found not guilty, that doesn't mean that he is innocent. Just because a court find someone not guilding doesn't mean they are innocent. Regardless of verdict, Vick has some connection with dogfighting. Based on that fact alone, everyone's reaction is justified. I think Kobe lost a couple of huge endorsement deals following the allegations of sexual abuse against him. I seem to remember Nutella and McDonald's terminating their contracts with Kobe. My point is, sponsor outrage and terminated contracts are not isolated to Mr. Vick as McEntegart would have you believe.
The general public will always go to where the media directs them to go. If the media says a recession is coming, people stop spending money and, viola, a recession occurs. The media is telling us how outraged we should be at Vick, so we are.
When Michael Jordan was (and still is) out womanizing, hanging out with gamblers, and making billions from the work of third-world sweatshop workers, ESPN/Nike didn't make a big deal about it because of the money that Jordan brought to them. Nowadays, there's so much diversity in sports marketing that the loss of Vick doesn't really affect the bottom line all that much, so why not tell the story. The media has agendas when they feed us the news, whether it's sports or real-world. The public is a parrot. They'll repeat what they're told over and over again. Pete,
Thanks for putting into accurate words what i have been trying to relay to others without sounding like an advocate of dog fighting. yes it is disgusting what he is accused of but in today's society we have HUGE problems to deal with and it seems like this ordeal is taking a life of its own on center stage... If Vick is found innocent of these charges, what will happen to these companies? He was still under contract with them. I can see Vick suing the living hell out of them and getting his negotiated salary plus more. You guys don't truly look at the ramifications of jumping the preverbial gun. They should have suspended everything, like Goddell did and let due process take it's course. But because of stupid groups like PETA, who think they have power and clout (obviously they do) over big business, and now the NAACP jumping in, there are going to be some heads rolling if this man is innocent of the charges. ALSO, I want to point out one thing, just my opinion on the guy who pleaded guilty. They stated VICK FINANCED everything.... DUH!! HE IS A LICENSED BREEDER, and it was a business for him. They Said this guy bought the dogs, and set up the transactions for fighting. Because of this business they had access to funds, to Vick's funds, through the business. Unless they can put Vick's hands in the frey of and actual fight, they won't be able to convict him.. Also, what is funny to me, is that State authority did not find any evidence, but the federal gov't can come out and dig up the ground and now they have an indictment. I don't condone dog fighting, chicken fights, praying mantis fights.. Any fights for that matter.
Pete, I think every media outlet has to take some of the blame for the biased reporting of the continuing Michael Vick case. I also think that your comments on the Vick case are a day late and a dollar short.
I think it is fair to assert that many people in the U.S. have someone they know who has broken the law with respect to: domestic violence, DUI, assault, drug abuse or association with minors. Most people in the U.S. have never been to a dog fight or known of anyone who participated in dog fights. I guess it was only natural for Americans to react the way have, because of their unfamiliarity with the crime. I can't help but wonder why this case has to be federal. Do our federal tax dollars really need to go towards prosecuting dog fighters such as Vick? How come Surry county is not taking care of this? I think the U.S. Justice Department is also guilty of some grandstanding. I think it would be more productive to initiate legislation which restricts ownership of multiple pit bulls and other breeds which are often used for fighting. Prosecutors should be out making cases against criminals that threaten the livelihood of Americans not dog fighters. Vick is an irresponsible fool. I think he may be dragging a bunch of us down with him. Are people really that clueless that the media can lead them in any direction they want. i am not naive enough to think the media doesn't have some influence. But to say the outrage is cause soley by the media is insane. People need to wake and learn to think for theirselves. Use the media for what it is one resource out of 1,000 ways we have to gather information. Use it wisely and don't blame the state of public affairs on those that write about it in their own opinions.
The reaction our society has to these types of situations often has as much to to with the identity of the victim as it does the alleged perpetrator. I've always thought that Kobe got off easy in the court of public opinion, because of the tendency of many in our our society to suspect (consciously or subconsciously) that a person who alleges to be the victim of a crime committed by a person with fame and/or money may be a goldigger, extortionist, kook, disgruntled ex-friend, etc. Vick's biggest problem is that his alleged victims are dogs, who are perceived (correctly so) as defenseless. But really, if a professional athlete forces himself on a much smaller woman, is she any less defenseless than one of Mike Vick's dogs? No, but I guess no one ever suspects a dog of having ulterior motives. I guarantee you that if Vick were accused of rape, his handlers would immediately begin a campaign to cast aspersions toward the victim, and the public viewpoint would be to "wait and see how the charges are disposed of in court." Bottom line: Vick's in much greater societal hot water because you can't smear a dog.
The backlash against Vick is getting a huge assist from the cumulative disgust with the behavior of professional athletes, NFL players in particular. He is certainly caught in this rising tide. Bearing that in mind, I still have no sympathy for Michael Vick. He deserves whatever he gets, whether from the criminal justice system or his sponsors. I'm a dog owner in the process of adopting a rescue dog, so I'm a particularly disgusted by those who abuse animals. One other observation, in an attempt to keep things light. Joey Porter punced the Bengals' Levi Jones in Las Vegas a few months ago, and got off with a $141,176 fine from the NFL. Right about now, I'm guessing that Porter is darn glad he didn't miss and hit Jones' dog. For all those comparing dogs to children, there is a huge difference. Put a dog in the wild and it will find a way to survive, but a small child in the wild would have no chance. Dogs don't have to rely on humans to survive like children do. In no way do I condone what Vick did, it was sick and disgusting.
However, I think more emphasis needs to be put onto human life. Is fighting dogs really on the same level as "coercing" a shooting? How can something like Leonard Little's vehicular homicide slide? I do agree with the decision to have Vick sit out training camp and I think that ALL cases of run-ins with the law where there could be a possible suspension, the player should sit out until it is resolved. anon@2:23
The case is federal because it crossed state lines (bringing dogs in from other states). Also, limitiing number of dogs to just pit bulls or other fighting dogs wouldn't work because ANY dog can be bred to fight, they use pits because of the strength etc. The bigger charges will be the racketeering charges that will be coming down this month (the gambling stuff). Its a federal case because the dogs were transported across state lines. You add in the gambling and consipracy charges and whatever else the Feds may add on (ie tax evasion, drugs charges) and they could possibly have a RICO.
by the way Pete "its all your fault" Only kidding. Too bad Vick wasn't an abortion doctor. Then his killing would be perfectly legal.
I can't blame anyone for dumping on Vick. I know I would. But maybe Madison Avenue and the rest of America just doesn't see drinking and driving and domestic violence as being as serious as killing a dog. It sure seems that way.
Anon. 2:25,
Your post echoes some of my thoughts. I always find it interesting when people claim that the public believes whatever the media "tells" it to. Yet the underlying assumption behind that view usually seems to be, "Well, *I* think for myself, but most people aren't as smart as me and just take whatever the media says as gospel." Give me a break. The "blame the media" excuse is typically just a convenient crutch. Of course, I'm a member of the media, at least in the broader sense, so I would say that, wouldn't I? But really, if I had that power, I'd probably try to get people to believe that "We should all give large sums of money to that McTagart fellow." Anyway, I'll bring this up at the next Mass Media meeting, the one where we all get together to set the agenda for every newspaper, TV program, magazine and Web site so we can move in lockstep per usual. -- Pete Pete maybe the media should start a campaign that Mets fans make better lovers. (Which is true because usally after August we have nothing else to look forward to)
nice job Pete, I love the people who blame the media.
BTW, I'm shocked people think your point was to reduce the backlash against Vick as much as it was to increase the backlash against others. i can't believe this dude is comparing leonard little and michael vick--he of the 136 million dollar contract, numerous endorsements who bank rolled a dog fighting operation for six years violating federal and state crimes to leonard little (who is barely known outside of st. louis--and who was convicted and spent time in jail)...great comparison peter--you hammerhead.
The media does not influence the public. The public has never liked being told what to think, feel or do by anyone.
The media has stayed on this b/c it has all of the elements that appeal to people: fame, violence, money, outrage, etc. With that said, I am sorry, but the reaction is not out of proportion to the crime. Vick is a coward and a criminal and if he couldn't throw a football 80 yards he probably would have been in jail before he was 18. If former/current players and groups like the NAACP were smart, they would not defend this despicable man. I agree. Best column ever! I think if you're in that kind of spotlight, and do anything that jeopardizes your integrity, you lose your job. Permanently. A lot of kids (and some adults) use these people as role models. What kind of role models are these athletes being? Thrown his butt in jail, along with all the other criminals, and don't hire them back!
the leonard little thing is interesting. back when that happened, the internet was not full of blogs like it is today. I think if he was to do something like that nowadays, he would be crucified in the public opinion. same goes for a lot of athletes who were constantly in trouble, say, even 3-5 years ago.
Pete - I've seen you called a lot of things, but hammerhead by anon 3:04 has to be up there.
As a lifelong Falcons fan (yes it's been painful), I was growing tired of Vick's 'act' long before this story ever surfaced. I did not appreciate him 'flipping' off the fans; we pay his salary. But being in the news for such asinine behavior is common nowadays.
As a football fan, I have become disgusted at the amount of stories in the news regarding PROFESSIONAL athletes and their willingness to break the law. Money and fame do not buy class; that has been proven. One of the previous posts mentioned that human life should be put above the life of an animal...how about the sanctity of life itself? What he did is completely reprehensible and he should be punished....just like any other criminal in any other case (domestic abuse, child abuse, etc). I am not a religious person, but I always fall back on the golden rule....do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Maybe Vick needs some quality time with a counselor to help him with his unresolved issues. In fairness, there's an important difference here: The Bryant case was pure he-said/she-said. No corroborating evidence, no additional witnesses (granted, that is often par for the course in rape cases, sadly..). In the Vick case, there is so much corroborating evidence that nobody (not even Vick) denies that dogfighting took place on the property, and there are four federal witnesses, a squealing co-defendant, and countless anonymous sources quoted by the sports media, all who have said flat-out that Vick was involved.
So while a rush to judgment may still be unwise, it's at least understandable. I'd be shocked if Vick comes out of this clean. Boy, I read every one of those posts, every one, Pete. It took my whole lunch break.
For everyone complaining about "wasted resources" and "wasted tax dollars," you need to realize that the money is there to fight crime. So it isn't being wasted so much as being well-spent. This is a crime, and they are spending money on prosecuting it. Next, my thought is that this is such a big deal because of who Vick is. He's a big name, a superstar, with a character that is perceived as not-so-shiny. Kobe at least had the perception of his character going for him. When people heard about Kobe, they said, "Kobe Bryant? Can that be true?" By contrast, when you heard about Vick, you likely said (with a sigh), "Which Vick is it this time?" So, Michael Vick isn't helped by the image he's created for himself. The best description given of Vick was "time bomb." You knew it was going to go off, just not when or where. So to me, it makes sense that the big corporations would dump him; they were probably looking for the right time, and, true to form, Vick gave it to them. I agree with the posters who say that this shouldn't be more outrageous than violence against women. Hopefully, your article will help us realize that physical and sexual abuse is just as bad or worse than animal cruelty even tho' we human abuse is much more common. The difference between Kobe and Vick is simple: Kobe immediately put up a PR front and apologized to his wife, his team, his family, etc. Kobe admitted he had a sexual encounter w/ that girl in Colorado, but (as the legal system showed) he did not rape her in anway. The sex was consensual.
On the other hand, Vick's statement was read by his lawyer (containing numerous grammar mistakes) as he drove off in an SUV. Vick hasn't once come out and admitted he knew anything about goings-on at the house or his involvement in this case, despite overwhelming evidence against him. Vick's general attitude has created this media firestorm. Also, regarding Vick's recent sponsorship abandonment, think of it this way: you're a normal guy, working you're normal job w/ a decent pay and a seemingly unassuming life. However, one of your "hobbies" happens to be dogfighting. If the exact same charges were brought upon you, how would your job react? How would your family and friends react? What about the city you call home? Anybody faced w/ these charges would be fired immediately from their job. You can't tell me there is a company in the nation that would allow this type of negative publicity to affect their corporate image. I think the child/dog analogy is pretty accurate. I know I treat my dogs like they're my children. The reason this case is getting so much press is b/c of our nation's obsession w/ our pets. Just about everyone that has a dog knows just how special that relationship is. The fact that a person can electrocute, hang, strangle or drown Man's Best Friend is the definition of evil. Just think, as Vick horribly killing these animals, they were probably still thinking of him as their owner and caregiver. And tell me why all dogs still love and respect their humans? I agree that Vick has brought all this negativity on himself. He's had a bizarre few years stemming from the Ron Mexico incident, the infamous flipping of the bird, the water bottle/weed transportation unit and now this. Add to that his callous attitude and you've got the perfect storm for media coverage and disdain. I do not feel sorry for Vick and if these charges are true (I think they are BTW) then I hope he has a front row seat reserved for him in hell. I agree that Nike and the NFL have the right to suspend or terminate their relationship with Michael Vick, simply because they are a business. And if Michael Vick stands in the way of their business being prosperous they have the right to take steps to seperate themselves....whether he is guilty or not does not matter. What I don't agree with is organizations like PETA and regular people who force the NFL and Nike to make these decisions. Michael Vick may be guilty of everything he is accused of but I wish he could have his day in court before the PUBLIC convicts him. I live in Atlanta so I have a certain perspective... I have seen many other serious incidents involving Athletes in Atlanta that did not receive any protests from special interest groups....Where was MADD when NHL star Dany Heatley slammed his "posse" member Dan Snyder's head into a brick wall and KILLED him while driving drunk. And I did not see any uproar from any Women's rights group when MLB Manger Bobby Cox beat up his wife or when Chipper Jones had an out of wedlock baby with a Hooters girl the pro-family groups or Christian groups did not show up in front of Turner Field. Even when a Woman was Raped at the home of NFLer Patrick Kerney, while he allegedly slept a few doors away there was no outcry about the group of "thugs" he chose to associate himself with. I don't know if America is just tired of superstar Atheletes getting special treatment and the buck stops at Michael Vick or if Amerikkka has a different agenda.
Brad,
My bosses thank you for taking the time to read all the comments, especially since the bean counters zealously measure the amount of time spent online. And they said I was crazy to turn this into a blog! Matt, The "legal system" did *not* show that the sex between Kobe and the woman in Colorado was consensual. The charges were dropped; nothing more. The state declined to go ahead with a trial, in that instance because the woman no longer wanted to go through with it. And the way Team Kobe dragged her through the mud and would have done so even more during a trial, should that be so hard to understand? That is not at all the same as "showing" that he was innocent. It was not at all like the Duke case, where the state's attorney general didn't just drop the charges but said the defendants were in fact innocent. Nobody but Kobe and that woman know for sure what happened in that room, and even they might have legitimately different interpretations of the same events. But there was certainly no definitive finding that Kobe "did not rape her in any way," either in criminal or civil court. I certainly don't "blame" the media for creating an out-of-proportion story. And I certainly do not assert that *I* am the only one immune to media coverage. In fact, I believe that the vast majority of people do think for themselves. However, there is a large number of people who are pushed to one side of the fence on an issue if there is a media that they trust pushing the issue in a certain direction.
For example, how many of you would be thinking "boy, it sure is hotter now than when I was a kid" if the media weren't bombarding you with cries of "global warming"? If the media were telling you story after story of the great successes that American Soldiers were having in building up an infrastructure in Iraq (yes, there are some) then Congress' approval rating might be higher. How many times do we hear about young Hollywood actors who go home after filming for the day and go to work on their favorite charities? They exist, but the media would have you believe that young Hollywood celebrities are all out of control. That's what sells. There is example after example of this, many of which is not for discussion here because this should not turn into a political discussion. However, I think that the reporter in Pittsburgh- who got fired for his comments stating that Vick would've been better off had he raped a woman - was right on the button. Why is this a bigger deal than the athletes who abuse women? Because the media makes is reporting it. And they not only report it, but they report is over and over and over. The general public is not privy to all the behind-the-scenes stories. Therefore, the public can only respond to what the media puts before them. I'm not saying we are stupid or we are sheep. I'm only saying that we can only respond to what we know about. What a fantastic entry, Pete. It's not that Vick is being treated too harshly, it's that other offenses seem not to be treated in a similarly proportional manner. Case in point, as you note, is violence against women. Sadly, the commercial world bases its actions on profitability, and the public outcry, not the inherent offensiveness of Vick's actions, drove their decision-making. And I think, in fairness to those who suggest race plays a role, that it is possible that a white athlete, under identical circumstances, might not elicit an identical reaction from the public, the media or sponsors.
In a more ideal world, we would all be judged by our actions, without that judgment being complicated by race, gender, wealth or fame. It's not an ideal world, but your decision to call out this issue, and the contributions of many who've weighed in can helps us get a little bit closer. Thanks. If Michael Vick was accused of being around Dog Fighting, then fine, this is overblown. But there were dead dogs buried in his yard people! John Wayne Gasey had dead people in his house, and there was no question of his guilt. I'm sure public opinion was pretty swift on that one. We're not talking about someone who happened upon a dog fight and liked what he saw... and that was it. He bought a house, built the fighting rings, had people over, forced animals to kill eachother, and killed them himself. As an American, innocent before guilty. As a NFL player, I don't want to see him ever again. 'Nuff Said.
it doesn't take a criminal conviction to have a sponsor drop you. ask O.J. .....oh wait i have hertz on the phone.
First let it be known I think these charges against Vick are truly disgusting and intolerable. If (or when in my opinion) number 7 is found guilty I hope that he receives every ounce of punishment available to him. But we can not deny one simple fact, we live in America which has one major rule. Innocent until proven guilty.
These companies and the league itself have every right to move on contracts before his trial ,based on their opinion of the case. But god forbid Vick some how slides out of these charges they better have their legal teams ready for a beauty of a civil case. Vick is still a free and innocent man and the judgment has already been set on him. Did he do it? Yea almost definitely. Should he be convicted before he has his day in court? Not while we live in this country. Also, lets consider this idea. If found guilty and serving his prison sentence, let Vick play for a few games for no pay. Im sure there are a quite a few dog loving outside linebackers that would pay anything to catch Vick open field on a bootleg. It is too bad some that you mention go off too easy but I haven't heard anything from the Vick camp that sounded reasonable cause to doubt the charges.....Bet the guy who plead out has already pointed the finger at him.
IF any sports figures killed and tortured women or made them fight each other to the death, there would be the outrage. For anyone who says "they were ONLY dogs", you are showing your unevolved low life perspective.
People who abuse animals abuse humans ans even if they didn't it doesn't make it ok...unless you have the moral compass of a sociopath. Keep the stupid comments coming frankly if you ask me, it seems as if there's a hate against Mike Vick. I don't know why. May be its racially motivated. How many black QBs do get enough credit as they should. Answer None!
Violent crimes against women don't happen as much in Texas. That's because the DA will prosecute even if the woman drops the charges, which they usually do. If all states took that approach there'd be a lot less because the morons would be in jail.
The NFL policy should be changed so that anybody charged with a felony will have to clear it up before he can play and not collect any money during that time. As others have said, so many people have turned against Vick because the evidence is overwhelming. Certainly he shouldn't go to jail unless he's found guilty in a court of law, but people are free to think what they want, his employers are free to act as they want, and people who have him endorse their products must act as they see fit to protect their business.
Bringing Leonard Little into this is just stupid. Little was dumb to drink and drive (as so many people to do) and then had the horrible luck to get into an accident with fatal consequences. If you researched his second DUI stop, his lawyers showed that it was essentially the result of an overzealous officer obsessed with DUI stops. Both the officer's partner and the officer at the station testified against the officer. Little was innocent here. So you're comparing a man who made one stupid decision then had a horrible accident to a man who deliberately tortured and killed animals for pleasure. Brilliant. The difference with Vick is this - his crimes are a systematic and long term abuse of helpless creatures. This is not a crime of passion - it's thought out and repeatedly committed. If Kobe was arrested for assaulting multiple women in a 6 year span, you could bet there would be more anger. Vick's crime is closer to Mike Tyson - a consistent behaviour pattern.
Also, why the comment that we should focus more on "crimes against women?" Is it somehow more acceptable for a 350lb LB to beat a 150lb man to a pulp? If you want to express outrage - let it be an outrage that we don't hold more athletes to accountability like Vick is being held. The problem is not with how Vick is treated... it's how all the rest are. You're an idiot Pete...I suppose public outrage is only justifiable when the media decides it needs to be applied? And on your command? Many times I have seen writers plea to "Joe Six-pack" to use morals over your loyalty to your teams, now, "Joe" stands up for a creature which cannot speak out, run, hide, or decline action and "Joe" is overreacting. Give me a break!
Regardless of the allegations, the companies involved are paying good money for a pro athlete to create good feelings about their products in the minds of the buying public by their endorsement of them . The allegations against Mr. Vick have made that impossible and the companies have every right to withdraw. The criminal charges, of course, have to withstand a higher standard of proof.
Who is the clown that wrote this article?
First off - Kobe - The facts before that case went to trial were hazy from the get go. Many things were of question in that case. Consent is a tough thing to prove because human beings have motives for false accusations. It came out later that this girl was not real stable. Lots of women sleep with stars with various motives - proving rape is tough to do. Second - L. Little - Everybody in their lifetime has got behind the wheel after too much to drink. In fact, people do it every single night of the week. Not to say that is right but nonetheless people do it every single night of the week. The difference between life in prison or another night to do the same is if you get into an accident. Taking a helpless animal, slamming it to the ground, hosing it down and electrocuting it, hanging it, and forcing it to fight to the death is pretty difficult to defend. "Ah, come on it's only a dog...." What kind of thinking is that? The facts are out there - not too much to dispute. This enterprise was run on Vicks property, witnesses have placed him there, the whole show couldn't have been run by these thugs unless someone of $$$$$ bankrolled it, etc. etc. What do you need to do? Question the motives of the dog? Ask the dogs to take anger managment classes? Determine if someone put a gun to Vicks head to build this enterprise? This goes to show you that people don't care about violence towards humans as much as violence against dogs. Dogs are innocent and similar to children, for Vick to kill dogs the way he did is just as bad as killing children.
I own American Pit Bull Terriers and have saved some from death. If I ever see Vick I will give him what he truely deserves, people like me will never forgot this. His trouble has just began, most people do not even realize the extent of people Vick has angered. I hope the XFL comes back, that is Vicks only chance of playing again, and even then I am sure PETA and Pit Bull Lovers will shower him with red paint if not do much worse. Stephen Proud American Pit Bull Terrier Owner Nice job of missing the point. It's not about the crime, or how bad the crime is compared to other crimes with which Vick could have been charged... The outrage comes from yet another gifted athlete acting like he can do no wrong. This column is just another way to enable this kind of behavior. Vick is a spoiled rotten little brat who thinks because he has fame and money he's entitled to do whatever he wants. Yeah, blame the public for being outraged at something a professional athlete does. How dare we?!?
I hate dogs! There I said it! I've heard of dogs attacking and killing children. I run over dogs while driving. I've eaten dogs when I'm overseas (doesn't taste like chicken). Too many useless dogs in America anyway. Workng dogs on a farm is one thing but the American scary-attachment to house "pets" reeks of the disfunctionality in this society.
Oh and doesn't this just smack of iconic WASP behavour? You know WASP "they love animals, they HATE people". Vick can do whatever he wants to a dog. So sad, I knew this was going to happen. Everyone will eventually feel sorry for Vick because he is a master at playing with our emotions.
Interesting how on his radio comments he brings "God" into the picture and somehow aligns himself with God, not asking for forgiveness or asking for help, but asking for us to foget all he has done. He is a bad boy, and I say, if he wants to be such a bad boy, killing dogs and all, let him spend 6m-2yr with some rapists and killers. Oh....
CONGRATS TO PETER KING for standing up to Vick. Peter never even got recogntion when he stood up and asked why there were so many quality black coaches available, and out of 7 slots 0 seemed to be on the way to being hired. I see all the other SI folks avoided this like the plague. Peter King at least stands up for what he believes in. Pete, on the othere hand, seems to think because we have never really stepped up and punished players properly for steroid/HGH abuse, wife abuse, whatever, that we should continue that trend with Vick. Hey, 8 dogs killed at LEAST. Let somethng good happen in their memory. !!!!! Shame on the NFL and Nike for being FORCED to take a stand ... sad thing is, I'll bet the NFL does better this year than ever and these murdered dogs will be soon forgotten. Clear this up for me?! Just what past crimes has Vick done?
1. Flipped off the crowd? -Treason! 2. Did a little weed? -Wow, must be a terrorists! 3. Short with the press? -Hang the man! 4. Supported his brother? -How unique! 5. Hangs out with less then godly types? -Won't go heaven for that one! As far as I can tell these dog charges acutally amount to heresay by opportunistic low-lifes. People get real. Like it or not, it is easier to punch holes into a domestic violence case than a dogfighting ring.
On first glance, dogfighting rings involve many people including trainers / owners and spectators / etc. In any case that means that there are a lot more witnesses involved. Violence against women / children is a lot trickier to prove. In most cases it just involves the word of one man against one woman plus whatever evidence the police have gathered. The problem with the whole "public disgust" factor is that in general high profile people get more attention from the media than lower profile people. Others may be more disgusting than Vick say a child molestor for example, but they still won't get as much attention as Vick (unless they do something completely crazy) because by now the public has accepted in democratic society that there will be some crazies out there that will do bad things with their freedom. We just don't expect them of higher profile people we see every day in our sports / hollywood / politics / etc because those are the people that represent us most often on our own public broadcasting venues. Thank Goodness someone one with common sense with enough guts to say something. I DO NOT condon what Vick did, but it does not and should not be compared to the level of things Kobe did or others that do the same. This guy even gives an example of someone who killed a women via drunk driving and I never even heard about it. Was a whole country outraged then. We all know the answer to that. Once again we applaud the women who has an abortion and call for Vick to be executed. Something is very wrong in this country.
One person said "I'm sure if Vick was accused of hanging, electrocuting, or slamming baby girls to their death, the public would be just as outraged" sure but what if a women basketball player had an abortion (same thing as slamming a baby girl or boy to their death) we would all applaud her and say its just a choice. This country is sick
What has happened is too much money and irresponsibility. The fact that this happened on his property is enough
Gambling is a disease also. He is hooked on gambling the same way little was on alcohol. Point is people make mistakes. But shouldnt we all be forgiving
Mike's last single possible hope of saving his NFL career would be to plead guilty before this case comes up this month. He stands up, aplogizes, takes the heat and stands up for once and becomes a man.
But his greedy lawyer won't tell him the truth, because you can't rack up a 10 million dollar law bill, or fame and fortune by a quick quilty plea. And Mike's just not smart enough to make the right choices, and that showed in his inability to learn the NFL plays. Does that make running the Mike Vick Electrocute, drown and Kill Live dogs show OK? I guess thats the real question here .... was he intelligent enough to know that doing this was wrong. I think this ia an accumulation of all that has been happening over the past few years with ALL pro's. On top of that how many people own a dog? And the constent denials-from Ray Lewis to McGuire to Vick. I don't know who pulled the trigger, I'm not here to talk about that, I had nothing to do with the dogs. Please. We make these guys rich-they need to be held accountable-now we have a commish is holding them accountable. Stop enabling them. This isn't HS-this is real life. They need to grow up.
Wait so shouldn't McEntegart get in trouble now for making a brief comparison between dog fighting and rape like that news guy did? lol They said basically the same thing but the news guy just said it in a blunt fashion.
Vick took joy in torturing and killing defenseless creatures. And he did it again and again and again.
"Roll Mike", I say. THIS IS NO GOOD!!
If he wants our FORGIVENESS and SYMPATHY and UNDERSTANDING, is it not HIS repsonsibility to STAND UP, and admit what he did wrong and tell what he will do to try and make things right??? We are NOT helping him by being sympathetic, we need to let him fall as far down as he needs to, to realize he was WRONG ... then, and only then can he start on the path back. Did you see the way he was walking .... ? Like king of the hill. If I did all that dog killing, my head would be so low it would touch the ground. He thinks this is OK !!!!!!!!! Pete - Please refrain from writing anymore mindless banter. This is the worst entry I read, and I am tired of these Vick apologists. Leonard Little isn't the face of a Franchise nitwit. I do not condone Little's actions as he is just as much as a dope as Michael Vick, if not more. If I hear one more comparison to the Kobe case (and Duke Lax case for that matter) I might throw up. Bye Vick.
Big difference here between the Bryant and Vick cases...overwhelming pysical evidence.
PEOPLE WATCH WWE AND STREET FIGHTING AND ALL KINDS FIGHTS WERE PEOPLE ARE ALL BLOODY SOME PEOPLE DIE TRYIN TO GET THERE.. AND YOU ALL RIDE VICK ABOT DOG FIGHTING
Vick is slime. Put him in a cage Octagon
Vick versus OJ with bowie knives. 2 go in one comes out. Fans to wear doggie masks proceeds to charity winner to fight Ray Lewis if he stops dancing long enough. Loser gets electrocuted Oh wait all 3 are already losers but rich enough to avoid American "justice" PS We do not put women in cages naked and bet on the results...OK? some women like it rough and like to submit they leave one physical guy and replace him with another one. It's the way of the world, get over it Whether people should be more angry than they are about other crimes has nothing to do with the anger against Vick being out of proportion.
Out of proportion to what? How do you compsre heinous crimes? What's worse: child abuse or rape? It's irrelevant to the Vick situation, unless someone believes that the six-year maximum sentence facing Vick is too harsh, in proportion to some other crime. But I haven't heard that argument. And it's certainly not too harsh that Vick is losing all of his endorsements - which is the writer's most repeated point - because losing them is not a legal judgment: it's a business decision. Business is not about morality. Of course Mike Vick outrage is out of proportion in a country that slaughters MILLIONS of cows, sheep, pigs, chicken, ducks, turkeys, and hundreds of thousands of HUMANS IN IRA! However, this is America: When an African American is even ALLEGED to have committed a wrongful act, the white supremacist bigots are out in droves with their lynching rope a ready.
I'm tired of hearing the comment, "All these pampered athletes & celebrities...blah blah blah". Your outrage is misguided, just like PETA, NOW, Rev. Al, Jesse, & any other media headline whore that's out there. These celebrities are but a small fraction of the criminals in our society. Right now prisoner #456789 is being released back onto the streets, your streets, because of overcrowding. These are hardcore individuals that have murdered, raped, molested, beaten, & robbed....and will do it again. Where are the protests? How many special hearings have there been? Is there nightly news reports?
Everyone wants Vick behind bars forever, which he deserves, but no one wants to dip into their tax pocket and build more places to put away the less famous criminals. This is just tabloid news. White America was NEVER THIS UPSET over Black PEOPLE being HUNG AND TARRED AND FEATHERED.....THAT IS MY MAIN PROBLEM WITH THE "HOW COULD SOMEONE BE SO CRUEL ATTITUDE" I'm almost 46 years old and lynchings didn't bring about this much anger, and nor did Black Man recieve as much sympathy as the dogs get from all of the SAINTS AND P.E.T.A. FOLKS!!!! TELL ME I'M LYING????
Why defend Vick? He has shown no sign of being sorry, no apology to his fans, no attitude except," I am the man!" Let him defend his actions and justify them.
Personally, I would only endorse the people who exibit a quality of character that I want associated with my product. Very few prodeucts endorse torturing dumb animals or people that cause mental or physical pain to any one. Convictions, guilt or innocence is for the courts, perception rules the world. The NFL is in the media, entertainment world, and that world simply wants players who help market the NFL and the endorsed products...life is in the court, public opinion rules everywhere else. We got this issue all mixed up:
1. Vick did some really bad things, over a period of 5 or so years, so he will have to pay some criminal penalty for that. No point in arguing, that, some criminal penalties will come from this. Its going to happen, the issue is "how much" jail time and what type of jail. 2. Vick's sponsors, like the NFL tried to hang on as long as they could under the pressure. Nike knew he killed those dogs, and basically said, "Forget about it," and the NFL said the same, and thats when all heck broke loose, and the public had a fit. Had Nike and the NFL stepped up, it would have been 100X better for Vick. 3. Vick lied to everyone, the NFL, and to the public, and now the world (especially kids) are watching. Again, 100X better for vick even right NOW, if he would just step up, admit wrong and then we have no more ammunition. Actually, I think its GREAT he continues to strut around like a cocky chicken. The longer he lies and acts this way, the harder he will fall in the end. And when the judge finally says "Mr. Vick, 3 years in a REAL prison" watch how quick he cries like one of those dogs he killed for crying and losing. As far as the players supporting him, how sad, I'm quickly losing respect for the NFL. This is starting to become another NBA crimimal group, and sooner or later we are going to get tire of rewarding these bad people with our hard earned money. I'm starting to wonder if these guys need full time baby sitters. CAN'T TURN THE TV ON OR THE WEB WITHOUT AN O.J. JOKE....MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO PRETEND LIKE WHITE MEN DIDN'T GET AWAY WITH MURDER THOUSANDS OF TIMES, AND MOST OF THE TIME THEY BRAGGED ABOUT DOING IT, EVEN TAKING PICTURES WITH THEIR KIDS....BECAUSE THEY KNEW NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN TO THEM, AND THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TO GO TO TRIAL, AND NOT A CHANCE OF GOING TO JAIL MOST OF THE TIME. SO QUIT ACTING LIKE OJ DID SOMETHING THAT WHITE MEN GOT AWAY WITH QUITE FREQUENTLY AND EVEN STILL DO TODAY, ONLY THEY'RE WEARING BADGES NOW!!!
Yeah, it's RACISM, that's why Vick is in this mess. A black athlete or celebrity who does something wrong....it can never be of his own doing! (Unless your name is Clarence Thomas) It's too bad that the majority black athletes who don't do anything wrong get none of the attention that these clowns like Vick, Iverson, Bonds, and Sheffield do. There is a differnce between them and the likes of Hank Aaron, Tony Gwynn, Tiger Woods, and Tiki Barber. Most sports fans, regardless of race, know the differnce too.
The thing that makes this more serious than many of the other player offenses is that most of them were isolated instances. A one time offense or possibly even a criminal accident like drunk driving.
What Vick apparently did was to establish and run an illegal business for years. That is the very definition of "racketeering" and in no way indicates a mistake, momentary lack of judgement or expression of remorse. Just to make this multi-year criminal enterprise more disgusting, it involved the torture and death of the animal held dearest by our society. So far I haven't even heard him say he is innocent, only that he's sorry for embarassing his mother, Arthur Blank, etc. I'm from Atlanta but I'm done with the Vick family. Don't forget that his brother Marcus was a thug who got kicked out of college for his too long train of offenses. Balanced, well thought-out and timely. Vick has not shown anywhere in his past that he is a "menace to society" (let alone a threat to free and sovereign countries). So I'll say what you didn't- race plays a huge role in all of this. If it didn't I'd see all of these people at my next "get the hell out of Iraq" peace march. Doubt, no, I KNOW they won't be there.
kobe can get a pass for rape....ray lewis can be on madden cover and superbowl mvp after facing murder charges....a family is missing a loved one due leonard little.....someone was shot over the pacman fight....and so many others can beat on there wives and everyone looks the other way....if u gonna say someone else is guilty b4 they have been found guilty then u need to treat every person guilty b4 they even go to court....and the peta protesters need to go protest the animal shelters who kill thousands of dogs every year....protest people who hunt animals for a sport and they show it on espn....what kind of world is this....a animal is a animal....think about that....no comments needed....im sure u all will still think what u want....may GOD be with u VICK....guilty or not....keep your head up...
Cruelty to man's best friend? Thats how you describe it? Understating it a bit, dont you think? Killing something in the imaginative ways those dogs were killed in is definitly cruel, yes, but I think killing something goes beyond being "cruel".
I agree the Mike Vick outrage is out of proportion. Last week CNN reported that a dog mauled a baby to death. I did not see anyone protesting the owner of the vicious dog that killed the baby. It is sick when people value dogs more than human life. But this is not about dog this is about a young black man that makes millions of dollars and making him stay in his place. I was on a juror about a month ago, I really did not want to be on the jury but I got picked. I am really glad that I sat on the jury because I helped one black man from going to jail for no reason. The prosecutor did not even have a good case and I could have committed the crime with the evidence they had against the defendant. So African America start taking apart in the judicial system and stop sending African American to jail from nothing. You see what President Bush did when it was time for his friend to go to jail.
Oh no no no, this isn't about race. If it were Peyton Manning in this situation he would have already been considered guilty by the public just like Vick is.
This situation hasn't gotten so big because Vick's black, it's gotten this big because he's famous, and makes millions of dollars because people worship his football skills. Whether he gets convicted or not, he is guilty of at the very least looking the other way while animals were tortured on his property. To me (and apparently to many MANY people), that is enough to cancel out everything he has accomplished on the football field. Now, instead of being impressed with him, he makes me want to vomit at what a disgusting excuse for a human being he is, and apparently I'm not alone, and a guilty verdict isn't necessary. People in his position should be going out of their way to do good things and make the world better, but he instead has revealed how ugly it can be. The only thing that his sponsors could do to make me happier than getting rid of him would be if they take all the remaining money they'd owe him, and donate it to charities. For those who believe dog fighting is the same as UFC, let me ask you, would you allow child fighting for sport? Pet owners are suppost to be looking out for thier pets best interests like parents do for kids. Adults supposedly have the intellegence to make decisions for themselves and can be morons in an octagon if they decide to, but they are supposed to protect those in thier care from situations like that.
i think it's a combo of fighting dogs and vick being an african-american. if he was a white dude, this wouldn't be an issue.
this is how the world in the u.s. works. find me one single african-american dude or dudette or hasn't been pulled over for "DWB". Teams, fans, and sponsors are tired of professional athletes that cannot stay out of trouble. For sponsors who are spending millions on a likeable image, it doesn't matter whether the athlete is guilty or not. For them it is about character and a face and the public perception. If the perception changes and the face is not likable anymore, why would they associate a product with that face? All of these contracts contain good character clauses. Stay out of trouble and you make a lot more money than you can at the dog fights.
Any well known athlete or celebrity caught in a scandal gets dragged through the rags day after day because those stories sell and apparently the public wants it. We want information the minute it happens and we make our minds up quick. The court of public perception won't change how it operates especially when we scream for the gossip. Remember that Vick brought all of this on himself. He's an adult. He made choices and he knew the consequences. Personally, I don't rank him up there with rapists or murderers, but if his "hobby" or part time business is revolting to the majority of people, I don't blame the companies. Personally, I think he needs some therapy. Boo Hoo, dont even try to play the race card here. That excuse is way tired and far too overused. i am so sick of hearing that "excuse". if you break the law, white, black, purple or blue, you are going to get arrested. white people get arrested every day, there is no profiling.
If for some reason you do believe in profiling, how about try to blend in as a normal person? is it just me, or when everyone else looks at the mug shots it is all people with corn rows, gaudy jewelry, and clothes hanging off their body? look at pac mans mug shot? does he look like a model citizen? does vick? you've got to be kidding me. Vick wants to clear his good name? how about he clear his std's, stop smuggling drugs through the airport, stop dressing, looking, talking, acting, and living like a thug? this, and 99% of other arrests are not racially driven. if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, looks like a duck, and most of all, partakes in duck activities, pretty sure it is a duck. these people need to just leave Vick alone. why are people saying he is a thug? b/c he was wearing braids in his hair? That statement that someone made just proves that this is a racially motivated indictment. These are dogs, not human beings. Pit bulls at that. These dogs a born vicious. Why do you think that in some stated it is illegal to even have them. You see all of these people on TV with their dogs... yet you dont see nobody on there with a Pitbull dog. Pitbulls fight pitbulls. The animal shelter kill dogs everyday yet nobody is marching in front of their offices rushing to save them. Anybody who puts a dogs life in the same catagory as a human is sick. Maybe he would have been better off selling drugs to our kids, that way no dogs would have been hurt. IDIOTS!!!!
To that person who said so far they never heard him say he was innocent. WATCH TV, he entered a NOT GUILTY PLEA!! And stop saying he ran a business. he has not been convicted yet. I have faith in Vick. He has the 2nd richest contract in the league (next to Peyton Manning). I will be crazy for him to start a dog fighing business. His only prob is not turning his back on his so called friends.. they way they are doing him..(the guy pleading guilty and taking a plea bargain) they said he was with Vicks inner circle and got kicked out, so its obvious that he is doing it b/c he is not in the click anymore.
Hmmm, well if we want to put that comparison into play, lets put the humans involved in the dog fighting business into an arena and have them fight. If they don't fight well enough, we'll do the exact same things that Vick and the thugs did in killing those dogs that under performed. Tit for tat after all.
Honestly, have you known ANY cruelty to humans that was of even half this nature that didn't generate this much anger? In most of the other cases addressed there was at least a significant doubt to what the truth was. Here, not so much. But hey, the media has to play both sides of the fence. My hats off to you for drawing the short straw. If anyone thinks this is about racism, look in the mirror, you will see the racist. Vick is in deep because he has a long history of being a famous person making illegal decisions, not because he is black. And he is in deep because he tortured animals that most people consider friends, not animals. Vick deserves everything he gets, but I imagine breaking out the "Race" card early and often will cut him some slack in the end. How far we have fallen...
I agree 100% with keep it real. finally someone who has some sense is on here. People value dogs lives more than humans. My cousin had a pitbull from birth and one day his son was in the yard talking to his friend and his own Pitbull attacked him, almost crushing his skull. immediately they got rid of them and the animal shelter killed them. KILLED THEM.. the same thing that Michael Vick is being accused of. But he is going to trial for it. The league is wrong, his indorsements is wrong.. they are going to feel sorry for turning their backs on people and other clients are gonna start realizing it. As much money as these athlete makes they should just cut out the middle man and make their own brand of clothing and shoes. No more athletes indorcing Nike or Reebok. If Vick is innocent.. he should sign with Adidas, maybe even Puma(he runs fast like one anyways...LOL)
There is an overriding sadness to this whole thing.
Mr. Vick is an adult living an unsheltered life where the lines between wrong and right are clear. It seems appropriate that his punishment comes from the three most coveted places. The legal system, the endorsing companies with thier millions and the public which has finally found a reason to no longer overlook a professional athlete's indiscressions. Overpaid athletes are often treated very differently. They have special, very coveted skills and are "heros" to many children without ever really having to show they have a moral compass. Perhaps the real lesson we can all take from this is that athletes should be held accountable for their actions whether they wrong a human or an animal. If Vick actually is convicted the greatest thing that could happen is for other professional athletes- and the kids that adore them-to pay attention and realize no one is exempt from scrutiny and repercussions when their actions are so abhorent. Quote from Chris:
"I'm sure Farve has shot a dog on his farm, Farve could probably hang a dog from a tree and America would forgive." Hey Chris...you're a vick. Darn, I just can't speell anything rite tonight Kobe is a bad analogy. His accuser dropped the charges & settled out of court for purportedly millions. Many think that professional athletes can be targeted. His guilt was questionable. Vick has hired a dream team to muddy the waters up. However, owning the home & being seen frequently in the small town leaves NO doubt he was aware of what was happening. His sponsors should bail on his abhorent behavior. He is the last person any businessman should want his product associated! He should get years in the slammer. The talking heads think he will get suspended for the season. If he will fight dogs & bet on them, he will bet on anything!!!
Of course the Mike Vick outrage is out of proportion to the prior felony accusations of various professional athletes. Two things, however. First, no two events are alike and second, so what if it is? Outrage is not a social contract of consistency. The Kobe case was different because it was essentially a he said she said case. Domestic abuse cases are such that people believe pro athletes obtain spouses that are models or centerfolds, and somewhere in there those women chose these men. While domestic abuse is horrible, there is a plausible belief that these women had somewhat more options than the majority of domestic abuse victims, which diminishes the sympathy for them and resultant hatred of their tormentors. Vick allegedly perpetuated a federal felony act involving so many people as witnesses and paper trails as evidence that one might believe that he was either supremely arrogant, stupid, or a mixture of the two. To the public this is significantly different than the Kobe case. That it involved physical cruelty feeds into the fear people have of professional athletes. There is no doubt that violence against humans is worse than what Vick did. However, if you are willing to torture an animal, it brings into question the morals that would prevent you from doing the same thing to a human. Sure humans are more valuable than dogs. But that is immaterial because the only thing that mattered was that the public could associate itself with the victims. Now, if Kobe had been participating in gang rapes with his posse or something like that where one of his people could roll on him then we may be comparing apples to apples.
1) I've rarely seen so many sniveling little cowards as the people who post on this blog. You have something to say, and you're not brave enough to even leave the courtesy of a pseudonym?
2) To all the short bus-riding, knuckle dragging simpletons, there's something called "spell check" on your computer. Please do the rest of us who have managed to pass a 5th grade education, please check your pithy comments before you post them. The alternative is that those of us who ARE smarter than you are laughing our asses off at you, but that would obviously go WAY over your heads. 3) Pete, I would certainly not deny you the convictions of your beliefs, but I beg to differ. All it takes is the merest hint of impropriety to cloud public perception especially during a time in which the central figure needs impartial observers. Many sports figures exercise stunningly poor judgement, and what should amount to nothing more than a public gaffe or a private affair is blown way out of proportion. But we're not talking about one isolated incident with Michael Vick or even the kind of repetitive buffoonery that would cause us to dismiss him as a loudmouthed idiot. Michael Vick was one of the richest NFL superstars with not only an insane amount of money thrown at him by the Atlanta Falcons, but in his endorsement deals as well. He has had great opportunities to be one of the best and brightest stars in the NFL on and off the field, but he squandered it all. Contrary to what you've reported, it wasn't all due to his recent criminal indictments. I guess that nobody remembers that he knowingly gave Herpes to a woman in 2005. The argument that businesses are caving into protests over Michael Vick is completely bereft of any merit whatsoever. If you feel so strongly that either Michael Vick is innocent or that businesses should not cave into public pressure, then it's your fault for not petitioning, writing, and calling them up. Don't blame fine organizations like the Humane Society because they're better educated and organized than you. They are exercising their Constitutional Freedom of Speech just as you are. If you don't like the outcome, do more than bitch about it online, or sit back down in your pissant little life. Michael Dwayne Vick should suffer the sane fate that Michaek Dwayne Vick inflicted on all those innocent dogs.
Michael Dwayne Vick tortured and murdered innocent animals. Michael Dwayne Vick has no defense for the felonies he committed. Great article... I have been a little bugged by how harsh the media and public have been on Vick. What he is being accused of is very serious, but I agree that people are overreacting a bit. To me a lot of it sounds very propagandaish. But I do expect the courts to find him guilty.. it semes like the evidence is there. And hopefully he pays the price for his crimes and learns that just because he is a superstar, doesnt put him above the law.
Why is it hard to believe this? I mean Kobe was possibly innocent no? Vick owned a house where dogs were executed. Whether he knew it or not his house that he owned was used for executing animals and the evidence was when they removed the dead bodies. Not to mention rap kits and jaw snappers. Are you insane? This guy should be tarred and feathered
i've read a comment that if its a child americans react similarly whats wrong with you people human life overwrites canine life i would hope americans react more to child brutality /endangerment It appears quite a lot of americans have their priorities wrong.
Lets put it in an extreme way Americans appear to be of the opinion that i can walk into their houses rape and murder the women (only teated as a misdemeanor offense by the public) as long as i dont hit their dog I mean come on what the hell is wrong with you people and dont even get me started on justice and freedom the two traits americans claim to highly regard His animals wheres his freedom to do what he wants with them and how much justice exists in your system when your ready to condemn a guy of a few news reports regardless of any sufficient evidence that may or may not be produced in court America land of hipocrisy thats how the rest of the world views u fools Each year, roughly 4.7 million people are bitten by dogs and about 800,000, half of them children, seek medical attention, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. On average, a dozen people die each year from dog attacks, according to the center. In 2003, 32 people died from dog-related incidents. From 1979 to 1998, more than half of the dog-related fatalities were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers, according to a study published in 2000 in The Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association.
Most of you that are agreeing with PETA and the sponsors dropping Vick don't like him anyway. This man has not been proven guilty of anything. It's sad that in America people choose the rights of animals over humans. These are the same dogs that if you were walking down a street and they are walking down the same street they would chase you and bite you. With a popular athlete like Vick you only hear about the negative rather than the positive things that he does for his community in Atlanta and Virginia. Let the man be proven guilty before hanging him out to dry and not vice versa.
The difference between Bryant, the Duke Lacrosse case, and Vick is that there is a significant amount of indisputable facts in the Vick case.
We know for a FACT that Michael Vick owned the property, that dogs were bread for dog fighting on that property, and that dog fights occurred on that property. Whether he participated or not, it would be a tremendous leap of faith to believe he didn't know that this was occurring there. Just having knowledge of these attrocities and doing nothing about it make him guilty and a dispicable human being. If I ran a company and had Michael Vick as a spokesperson I would not only dump him as fast as possible, I would lead the charge against him. Your responsibility as leader of a business is to make money not to remain faithful to a perceived dog fighter. His image is damaged beyone repair and it is no longer profitable for companies to be associated with him. Kobe's image was not damaged beyond repair because there just wasn't much evidence in the case. Image is a cruel industry, this is no different than an actress not getting roles if she packs on a few pounds, it is the reality of the world we live in. Killing someone while driving drunk is no accident.
Michael Vick deserves to be suspended and much more. Pacman Jones was suspended for being arrested and "questioned" but not charged with crimes and he's out for a year. Michael Vick has had the attitude that he is the greatest player there ever was since he came in the league and I think he is getting is just. However, everyone needs to be found innocent until proven guilty. I believe he should be suspended without pay and that on top of all other punishments he may receive, he needs to spend time doing charity work for the animal groups and he needs to donate money to humane societies. Please do not compare women and canines. Women are abused and killed everyday. Football players get off easier than others because their spouses, girlfriends, etc are too afraid to file charges or some may even not want to give up the fortunes. However, women have a choice as to what happens to them. They can file charges, sue their attackers and they can leave. A canine can do none of the above. Michael Vick is popular with the young generation of football fans. His clothing and any other endorsements needs to be pulled now. A case this large could take a year or more and it is not fair that Vick still make money. After all, he will be "famous" to a point and some people will buy his stuff just to have it in case he is convicted. Drinking is a disease so don't compare drunk driving to this. That man made a poor choice. Vick new what he was doing. He was greedy and wanted to make money. More money than the outrageous amount he was paid by the Falcons. He has done nothing to earn any of that money.
4.7 dog bites. Hmmm, may I ask how puppies die in puppy mills ran by humans ? Why do you not have those stats. Humans are supposed to be the intelligent ones. Dogs depend on us, not the other way around. Quit trying to prove Vick innocent by bringing other cases up. Vick is an idiot to be involved at any level in this. He deserves to be rake accrossed the coals. When reading the indictment for the 1st time, if it did not turn your stomach, well then I pity you.
Enough is enough with the "innocent until proven guilty" nonsense. In legalese, of course no action can be taken by the authorities until a verdict is rendered, but seriously...All professional sports have to have some responsibilities for their players by having this misconduct rules, which don't need legal guilt to be enforced. When Kobe Bryant was accused of rape, the mere fact that he was involved in the situation should have meant an imminent suspension. Just because the NBA screwed the pooch on that one, doesn't mean Vick should get off the hook. Whether or not he he found guilty (which we at least admit he was involved with the situation) he should still be punished by the league, I think more severely for player misconduct. Of course, if it was at the end of the season and the Falcons were in the playoffs, maybe the league and the Falcons would be defending him much more. This early, they're probably just hoping he gets off and at worst misses a few games early on. Hopefully, he doesn't get off that easy. SCUMBAG!!!
Yes, I am a dog owner finding these acts disgusting at best, but the issues are multiple issues and Mr. Vick is under a federal indictment. Also these are the least of his worries since the charges here are the lesser of those that the feds may pursue in a subsequent indictment this month ... which include rackeetering. The record of successful federal prosecutions after indictment is better than 90% ... so, if it walks like a duck, has feathers like a duck, and quacks like a duck ... it's a duck. I would suggest Mr. Vick adopt a more contrite stance than the beligerent and arrogant one he has so far in wanting to clear his "good" name! Justice may be blind but the scales are sure tipping heavily towards the federal prosecutors favor.
When did Michael Vick become evil incarnate? Right about the same time he started finding new and exciting ways to batter puppies to death, that's when. Actually, brutally murdering something that's so high on the public 'warm and fuzzy' scale is a pretty good working definition of 'evil' in this society.
The thing is, puppies and dogs are generally considered 'innocent', not unlike a baby. If you can enjoy putting the innocent to a cruel and brutal death, then most people are going to be turned off to you. Nike and the Falcons and the NFL understand that most people abhor this type of activity and do not want to be seen as in any way endorsing or supporting Vick's alleged activities. These guys do not want a boycott of their products, so they're stepping away for the time being. I don't blame them. You're going down the wrong road when you try to compare this to public reaction to domestic abuse allegations. You (as the public) never really know what happened (hello Duke lacrosse team), so there's always some public sentiment on either side. Also, in most cases it seems - something like that probably wasn't happening for years on end. One shot, crime of passion, yada yada. All that said, I was willing and able to accept it if the NFL and Nike held off until he was actually convicted of something. But the more public sentiment that came down against Vick, the more obvious it became that everyone associated with him had to step back and evaluate their relationship. No big surprise there. Michael Vick got himself into this, not Nike or the NFL. If they want to pull back from him and remove their support, that's certainly up to them and more than understandable. And honestly, given the seemingly solid accusations against him, I don't think public outrage is at all out of proportion to his alleged crimes. Pete, next you are going to tell us that he'd been better off raping a woman?
Why don't you lead the pack and DONT write about Vick until his trial. This so called "outrage" being "out of proportion" is primarily fuelled by the media. I have yet to see hundreds of thousands of people marching in the streets with "Down with Vick" signs. The distancing and dumping of Vick by sponsors, NFL, fans, and the public, is the result of Micheal Vick never cultivating a positive image or relationship with his teammates or the fans. Dogs are not human and there are crimes that are far worse, but dogfighting and killing dogs shows what the character of Vick is all about. This is not a one time incident, this is a pattern of hiding envolvement and lying about his envolvement over years. The only thing worse is if he would be involved in childporn!
While I agree that human abuses often go unnoticed, that doesn't mean we should just ignore this story. You don't fight injustice by ignoring injustice.
It is human nature for people to care most about the closest beings to them. > Immediate Family > Extended Family and Friends > Co-workers and local community > State > Region > Country > World Most people who own pets would place them in the immediate family category which is the reason for all the outrage. People who love their dog often times are dog lovers and hate the thought of abuses happening to animals who are incapable of changing their situation. I think the reason this really sparks this much outrage is the fact that this could have been your dog. Someone else could have purchased your dog before you and led it to this kind of life. This makes it natural to think of these abuses happening to your dog. In human abuses, the further away the abuse happens from you, the less you care. When someone I don't know is shot and killed, I feel bad for their family but if it didn't happen in a location that is threatening to me or my friends and family I am not inspired to take any action. If you are outraged by the lack of a reaction about human abuses I would not blame you, just don't argue that because some human abuses are ignored we should ignore this issue. Also, to those claiming race has anything to do with this issue I would like to hear a solid argument for that. I am not saying that racism does not exist in this country, that would be naive. Race just isn't an issue in this case. Last I checked the white lacrosse players at Duke were guilty in the court of public opinion with far less evidence against them. One person on here said it best Madison Avenue makes money related decisions if they think Vick's marketability is gone it is gone, they have not obligation to give the benefit of the doubt or stand by him.
But more to the point of the article, obvioulsy people are outraged and you as a writer have no right to tell them what they should and should not be offended by. If you believe that vehicular homicide, rape, and domestic violence are more offensive then slaughtering animals I would commend you for that statement. I would agree that those acts are horrific and intolerable and justly punishable by years and years and years in prison. I do not understand why you would try and down-play one horrendous crime to prove a point about another. Vick is a piece of sh** and the S.O.B should be in jail. In regards to the dog attack stats, those are the biggest bunch of B.S stats I have ever seen. How many of those dogs had owners like Vick? I believe that the bottom line is that fighting dogs and killing dogs is completely one sided. The dogs are not going to tell a different story, no one will stand up and argue that the dog enjoyed it, or consented, or that the whole thing was an accident. An argument of "sides", which creates doubt, is not present here. Vick either did or he didn't. Therein lies the absoluteness of wrongdoing. The fact he is a defendant says he knew something. Even knowing about something that awful makes one guilty in the eyes of morality. Reebok, Nike, Rawlings and Upper Deck know that.
I find the contrast between what his team and former coaches and his "friends/posse" that have known him for years say about him quite stark. On one hand, you have his team and coaches, obviously oblivious, stating that he is a team-first, intelligent player who cares about his community and fellow man. On the other hand, you have the men who have known him much longer and in his world outside football that state that he is not only selfish and looks out for himself but the he is, "Not very bright." I don't know about you but I'll take the word of the ones that have known him longer in a more personal setting. As electrifying as his style of play is, it has always struck me as selfish in nature. His unwillingness to put in the extra reps to transform from a mediocre passer to an average passer and onward is quite apparent.
Let us also factor in the quick downward spiral of his brother. If Vick truly is the kind of man that his team says he is, he would have smacked some sense into his brother long ago. Yet, in the past year, I have seen similarities between the two. Would it be too bold to say that Marcus looks up to Michael and emulates his actions? These acts are despicable. Has the media jumped too soon? Maybe. Is it his endorsers right to terminate his contract if it feels his presence would hurt sales? Yes. Is he guilty? Not yet. I'll leave it at this: He and his brother are cut from the same cloth. One just screwed up sooner than the other. Look this rage against this bag of crap is not out of proportion. I am all for animal rights, and I say they should dip Vick in some gravy and lower him into a pit with some starving pit bulls. And put it on pay per view. The proceeds could go to the humane society. I know it would make millions. Vick is a piece of shit. Flush him down the toilet!
I think the sad thing in all this is that people are more outraged about dogfighting then they are about drunk driving, rape, beating women and children, or even getting shot.
I love dogs myself. I have 4 dogs non of the bit bulls, but while I do not agree with what this man has been charged with in this place we call the greatest place on earth, we are quick to say this man is guilty. What happened to finding a man guilty first in a court of law? If the one thing we have not learned in this country is that jumping on the bandwagon to say a person is guilty before a jury of his peers tells us he is, ends up being a slap in the face. For all the companies that dumped Vick I hope they start following this trend when a person is charged with drunk driving, rape, not paying child support or anything else. Cause the second you want to be outraged about something start being outraged about it all. Having an accident where someone dies is a whole lot different than killing an animal because it does not perform up to your expectations are worlds apart. Kobe got lucky in more ways than one. Vick is just one of those arrogant multi-millionare athletes that think they can get away with anything. His actions are deplorable.
I don't know what is worse, Vick's allegations or the "stone-throwing" attitude from folks who probably do some of the vilest things behind close doors. It is truly sickening to see how HYPOCRITICAL we so-called Americans can be. We cheer for a man one minute and then we cast stones and expletively call him out of his name the next. I am going to make a biblical statement here, he that is without sin cast the first stone......Silent huh? I thought so. Look, let the courts determine the outcome of this matter and leave your judgmental comments to yourself. If you were in this situation you would want the same respect and would lean heavily upon your constitutional right of "innocent until proven guilty." As a truth, no one is condoning the allegations against Vick but the man has not even been on trial yet and the public acts as if he needs to hung, electrocuted, and thrown down. I also agree to the fact that I have never seen such an outcry from the public concerning issues that are more serious than this. I mean there is not even this much of an outcry against what Pacman Jones is in trouble for. I am not making Vick out to be a saint but it as if the public wants to crucify Vick for his allegations but sweep under the rug Pacman Jones� actions. Simply put, take the two by four out of your own eyes before you start talking about the speck in someone else's eye.
The facts and evidence that have already been made public through Vick's indictment far exceed the facts that were known in the Kobe Bryant case. It doesn't make any sense to compare the two. Leonard Little was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. (that means not on purpose) Also, what endorsements does Leonard Little have? He's still untouchable by advertisers.
I find it interesting that our society will condemn vick in one breath, and then turn around when animal control finds a stray dog they will put him down. Having such a high respect for animal life in one circumstance, and the "compassion" to kill stray dogs in another circumstance makes our society seem to be hypocritical. I am in no way saying that dog fighting is right, it is a brutal thing to make two animals do. However don't other animals fight to the death all the time? Maybe we should outlaw hunting deer as well, because often times after a deer is wounded it escapes and suffers long before it dies. I know that it is a bit of a stretch as an example, but maybe we all should take a long hard look at where we as Americans really stand on the importance of animal life. So either:
-Allow dogfighting, and therefore allow hunting and the destruction of stray animals regularly or -keep dogfighting illegal as well as hunting, and then make the humane society not put down an animal Just like human life there is no middle ground with animal life. man and you say this is a free country where you are innocent until proven guilty. we seem to pay more attention to certain things and ignore other things more pressing. for example we have a dictatorship for a government, men and women are dieing in a senseless war in iraq, elderly people are being attacked by thugs, kids are being kidnapped, people are dieing from cancer and other dieases that we can't seem to find a solution for, etc....but does anyone really care. vick is under investigation PEOPLE!!!! he hasn't been convicted. i am not saying what he is said to be apart of is good. i think it is a very,very bad way for an animal to die, but lets pay attention to what this country preaches everyday about YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!!! as for the companies dropping him, they will be back. look at all the ones who turned on Kobie, i'm sure they are all wishing that they had him now.
I strongly agree with the main point of your article, which I understand not as criticizing the response of corporate America or everyday citizens in this situation, but rather, as suggesting that we as people are callous towards crimes against humanity and you make a call for all of us to elevate our broader standards. I only wish I could say that I held hope to see it happen.
You say we only here the negative about Vick. Well why don't you tell me all the positive things he has done.
The WHOLE problem here, which some people seem to forget, is the whole CELEBRITY JUSTICE SYSTEM. NO ONE has faith in the legal system any more (and it's been proven TIME AND TIME again for good reason) and I bet a lot of people believe that even if there were video proof showing Vick doing something vile to the animal he'll either still get off completely or with a slap on the wrist. THAT IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM.
People can talk about "wait until a verdict..." bla bla bla but with a justice system that is so messed up like ours it doesn't really matter! We'll see about the trial but Vick has done other shit already that other people wouldn't have gotten away with. When there is bigger outcry over animal rights than the war in Iraq there is something wrong woth this country. Anyone who cares about dogs more than people need to check into a mental instituiton. idiots. if half the things you did that were dumb were exposed how would you want the public to see you. As a mistake or this is how i really am. SHUT UP PEOPLE focus on things that matter. This trial is not going to lower gas prices.
While people should be getting just as outraged when it comes to crimses against humans, the reason why people react more strongly to crimes against animals, is because for the most part animals are defenseless and they need us to protect them, not slam them to the ground and kill them. They don't understand right and wrong the same way you would expect another adult human being to.
The difference is that these women are with these men that beat them. They have chosen to put themselves in these situations. These animals didn't ever have a choice. I'm not condoning or supporting that we shouldn't be angry over these domestic desputes. I'm just simply saying the dogs didn't get a choice.
Mark's comment is great but also consider the fact that the evidence against Koby was her word against his. The evidence against Vick is pretty damming plus he sucks as a person. Koby (I don't care for him either), at least had a great image before this.
I think everyone needs to be reminded that Vick has not been found guilty of anything yet. So to compare his crimes to others crimes is severely premature. If he is found guilty then the judging and comparing can begin.
Mike Vick had nothing to do w/ dog fighting, it was Ron Mexico.
I want to address the comment made by hehatem at 12:28AM August 2, 2007. I take your comments as one that could only come from someone who is racist. Come on, subliminal racism is yet prevalent and it is not going away until the world ends. Simply put there is an ill perception towards those who are darker skinned and grew up on the wrong side of the tracks when they do something wrong as opposed to those are of the lighter complexion. Its the truth and America need to stop lying and say that it does not exist when it does. I am most certain that if this was Brett Favre in the exact situation there would not be this much outcry on it. Another thing, I also enjoyed the post by someone who talked about the inhuman things done to blacks back in the day and nothing was done because it was allowed, covered up, and even bragged about. Remember Emmett Till! What was done to this 15 year old boy was more horrific than electrocuting dogs. And to top it off the suspects were acquitted even after they bragged that they committed the crime. Travesty and Hypocrisy! There are many more examples I could name but space will not permit me to do so to prove how subliminal racism yet prevails. Stop your racist comments towards this man and let this man have a fair trial.
The dollar is the only real vote any of us or any company has. I'm glad to see companies using it to proactively to dictate what they will tolerate and what is unacceptable.
I am an attorney, in the Federal court system therre is a 95% conviction rate, i other words, if you are charged with a Federal crime you are going to be convicted. So the charges of Vick cruelly strangling dogs is probaly true.
Chickens and cows are gored and/or electrocuted at the slaughter houses that bring you the delicious entrees you all enjoy while tailgating or watching Mike Vick play. Or what about all the animals that are euthanized each day in animal shelters? No one...not even PETA protests that. It's ridiculous to lump crimes against animals with crimes against humanity. What makes pets more worthy of human treatment than animals we use for food. If you belive that..I'd say your were a "species-ist". Or get this...people get outraged about pet killing...but are indifferent about the "choice" of abortion. Maybe Vick should argue that it was his "choice" to kill his animals. This country is full of hypocritical people who justify their own moral inconsistencies but are quick to villify someone else's. I just don't understand some of you people's logic.
This is all naive and unrealistic.
Right or wrong, public scrutiny is heightened by all of the avaiable media and bloggers and there is no gray area or mercy. The higher up the chain of noteriety, you will be judged and persercuted for your action.There is no immunity from prosecution, whether you're at Duke, or on television, radio, etc. It is what it is. Don't you wish you could get such swift "justice" for politicians? Oj writes a book about what he did, Reginald Denny's attackers are walking the streets and you ask where justice is. If a 5 year old takes your gun out and kills someone, who is liable. Same as Vick's property. The owner is. He cannot be innocent of ALL charges. And do not bring up Brett Favre is the same breath as you know. One is a dedicated husband, father and teammate, while the other cannot see pass the tip of his nose.
The Vick outrage is not out of proportion. Any common person charged with these allegations would be immediately fired from their job as well. Innocent until proven guilty is for the court of law. The public can decide what they want as can corporation.
Seoul Brother:
You are obviously intelligent and have given this matter a lot of thought -- but you undercut your argument with the unnecessary insults to other posters. It never fails that when someone points out another's errors in spelling or grammar they make some of their own, you are no exception. (The second sentence in your point # 2 is missing some words.) Are cows pigs and chickens not animals???? We breed them in captivity for the sole purpose of taking them to the slaughter house. As for the cruelty part - do a little reasearch on how calves raised for veal are treated. In pacific rim countries, dog meat is considered a delicacy. PETA and the rest of the American public have no problems with this. Mike Vick didn't invent dog fighting. Dog fighting has been around since man first domesticated dogs. Can anybody tell me when the federal government has ever taken over a dog fighting case before this one??? Anyone who can not see this for what it is is in denial. I, just like the rest of you, have no earthly idea about Mike's guilt or innocence in this matter. I do sincerely believe though, that if Mike is aquitted of all charges, his post trial treatment by the public will be more in line with that of OJ Simpson than that of the Duke Lacrosse team. figure it out...
One thing I think is missed. PETA, and the Humane Society of the US are two of the most active fastest going political advocacy groups in the nation. They are relentless in their pursuit of issues, and supporters all over the country.
For better or worse these groups are very effective at framing an issue in such a way that it pulls at people's heart strings and gets them to protest, or donate more money, or whatever. You didn't see the National Oganization of Women all over the TVs like you did in the Kobe Bryant trial, or any other high profile abuse cases in the sports world in recent years. Also it seems like a smart business decision for companies to drop Vick. What is the first thing that people think of when they think of him now. Not an amazing football player, but a dogfighting thug. Not exactly great marketing material. I love dogs... but I also love steak, hamburgers, chicken, pork chops etc. So I am paying others to treat cows, chickens, and pigs just as cruelly as Michael Vick is accused of doing to pit bulls. The majority of Americans are in that same boat right along with me. So I think the "righteous indignation" expressed by Peter King and other pundits over these accusations is over-the-top.
The whole reason the breed is called pit bulls is because they were bred to fight other dogs in pits. If we as a society have determined that dog fighting is evil and criminal, we should at minimum spay or neuter all pit bulls in the country. Given the aggressive nature of the dogs and the frequent attacks against innocent people, I think it's a good idea and more humane than euthanizing all of them. It's crazy how you people will say that the things Michael Vick is "accused" of doing to these dogs are so horrible but in the same breath wish the same thing and worse on him.
I have 2 dogs of my own. Each and every day I look at them, they are as precious as any other living being. So whether ConVick is involved in executing canines or humans, bottom line is that he is PURE EVIL. However, the courts must play their role and yes his contracts should have been suspended until that time that he is "ConVICKTED" and then revoked. His past actions against fans and others is what has led to his demise in the public's eyes. My greatest concern is that I have a feeling the Falcons knew and did nothing to stop this madman. Why else would the team try to suspend Vick, so that he could auto-appeal the suspension and go to training camp? Whats also troubling is that Michael Vick did this for pure entertainment , since he did not need the money (not to say that would make it right). IN MY BOOKS THATS PURE EVIL!
The reaction is not out of proportion. The transgressions of Kobe Bryant and Leonard Little did not reflect years of intentional and organized criminal enterprise and the ongoing organized deception to hide it from the public and league. Add in the animal cruelty and yeah, Vick is Evil. Maybe not pure evil, but there's more than enough there to be deeply repulsive and deserve stiff consequences.
So what your saying is, "They're only dogs", right?
What an idiot. You are a retard. None of those other cases were federal. They don't do this and less there is some serious proof. If you can be this cruel to animals you can be this cruel to people. More out cry should have come out over little. But that girl shouldn't have been in Kobe's room that late is why no one went it a frenzy over that. He should be put in a match and if he loses be drowned.
I think part of the problem people are having with the reaction to the vick case and not something like Kobe Bryant's case lies in our public in general. The problem with a case like Kobe Bryant and something like the Duke lacrosse case is it is he said, she said. People in society today are so willing to lie to get some money or attention that it is hard to condemn a rich person for something such as rape when the only proof that is offered is sex which may have been consentual and then the woman turns around and sues. People see animals (particularly dogs) as loving unconditionally and innocent and victims of their owners. The reaction you are getting from the public, as someone has said before, is consistent with what you would find if an athlete were accused of child molestation or something along those lines. The other problem is people are willing to justify too many things in their heads such as alcoholism is a disease and the battered woman could have left..so they look at it as less of an outrage because the perpetrator wasn't entirely in control. It's wrong but it happens.
The difference here is the complete lack of voice these animals have, the abject and intentional cruelty toward the dogs, and the way it reasonates to all animal lovers. Note to that cruelty to animals has been found a good predictor of abuse toward children, this guy is a freak and every NFL member involved or who attended these disgusting events should be banned. Yes, I think this will go beyond Vick.
this is a ridiculous article. the author only wrote it to take a position contrary to public opinion, attempting generating a stir in the process. it worked. but if he can't figure out just why everyone's so venomous towards Vick, then he doesn't truly understand the charges. and his link to the case isn't small, subtle, or hard to believe -- he owned the property the dogs were fighting on, for crying out loud.
I think that one factor involved is a question of empathy. Most people can imagine putting themselves in the position of making a stupid decision, especially when alcohol is involved. Doesn't excuse or mitigate the consequences, but there's a lack of malicious intent. The fact that the victims in this case were animals rather than humans is not all that relevant. What Vick is accused of doing is so repugnant that the public can not imagine themselves in a similar situation nor excuse the motives.
i think that this is really getting carried away dont get me wrong i know dog fighting is wrong but is that worth him losing his job over luckly he has made money an his family should be alright but its dogs not endangered species if those dogs had to die it was probable because they were real badly wounded which is wroung but is a animal worth taken away a mans lively hood if you had a choice to save a animal or a human which would you choose
"Innocent until proven guilty" is probably the statement most over used in a case like this. Everyone forgets the next part "in a court of law". Only the court system owes the defendant the presumption of innocence. To think that the constituion requires every individual in the country to provide a defendant the presumption of innocence is an abuse of the constitution.
If your child came home and said that your neighbor sexually abused him, would you continue to send your child to the neighbor to play until the neighbor is found guilty? Hell no, you have no obligation to presume him innocent. Only the judge and 12 jury members owe the presumption of innocence. Everyone else in the country gets to have their own opinion based on what they know. So if Leonard Little killed a man while driving drunk it wouldn't be a big deal? What difference does it make that he killed a woman? How is it that hurting women is worse than hurting anyone? Get off your feminist rant. Unreal.
Thank you for this ariticle, I too was getting tired of all the vicious attacks against vick by the public. There is something seriously wrong with our society when we get angrier over the death of an animal than we do over the death of a human being. There have been people in sports that have done a whole lot worse things than vick is accused of doing and there was no outrage.
Isn't it hypocritical to codemn people for caring about animal abuse more than the Iraq war and in the same posting mention gas prices instead of the loss of lives as the reason you are concerned?
I guess we can all stop caring about the torture of innocent animals so that you can save $5 bucks when filling your tank. Dog fighting is illegal in the United States regardless of the color of the person's skin who places the dog in the ring.
Racism is stupid and ignores the fact that genetically we are basically all the same. A black person can be genetically closer to a white person than another black person and vice versa. We need to learn to respect one another as people. Abusing or harming one another is immoral and wrong whether it's a woman or a man. We also need to recognize that cruelty to animals is always wrong. "It wasn't all that long ago, remember, that Kobe Bryant was charged with raping a woman. His sponsors (including Nike) stood by him and the NBA chose not to suspend him until after the justice system had its say. Bryant certainly faced hecklers and intense media scrutiny up until (and after) the charges were ultimately dropped because the accuser did not want to go through with a trial. But he was never buried as thoroughly as Vick is being buried right now." With upmost respect, you need to be more honest here. Kobe Bryant had major endorsment deals with McDonald's, Adidas, and Sprite (and several other companies) that were dropped during this period of time. And till this day there is still a decent portion of society that considers him a rapist, and suggest that he paid off the alleged victim to drop charges. And I believe this year a book was released that states Kobe Bryant committed the rape and offered a bribe to his bodyguard to murder the victim (not sure where that evidence came from).
To imply that Vick's plight is so unique is borderline a lie, and does more to imply that people want him to skate justice as oppose to proving he is having an unfair shake of things. I don't think the outrage is out of proportion. I've read a lot of comments saying that it's not as bad killing people, or rape or any other crime. The fact is there is enough outrage to go around.
It's simply not a defense to say one thing shouldn't be a big deal because something else was far worse. As a woman and a sports fan, I still find Nike's support of Kobe Bryant to be abhorrent. In fact, Nike as an industry, with its sweatshops in third world nations, is a rather disgusting example of a business in general. And with their continued support of Kobe, they should change their logo to "Just do her."
As for Vick, I'd like to say a few possibly inflammatory things. I think the black community should be concerned that so many of its successful young men enjoy the blood sport of dog fighting. I think they should be concerned about how the fans look, jumping around in the streets claiming Vick as their hero. I think they should be be addressing the underlying issues at stake here -- what's happening to their youth to turn them on to such violence and death and why are sports figures their role models? Because to the rest of the civilized world, it comes across as looking pretty darn barbaric. There are two things at play here that no one is really talking about. This is nothing like the duke case because that was a white guy in a majoirty black district trying to get re-elected. Federal Prosecutors are not elected, they are appointed, so there is no posturing going on here.
The other thing is the treatment of animals. One of the biggest indicators of a SERIEL KILLER is is the blatant mistreamtent of animals. If someone can manage to kill, shoot, drown, and electricute a dog, it is significantly easier for them to make the jump to killing people. According to the FBI, it proves a moral lacking of compassion. I'm not saying Vick is going to start killing people in downtown Atlanta, but you have to know that if he can just kill multiple dogs without hesitation, he is a sick person. Playing football should be the last of his concerns. He should be in a mental health facility to find out why he has to have dogs fight on his behalf. Not much of a bigger bitch move than to have someone else fight for you. And how tough are you really if you can't even fight your own fight. I would much rather Vick had used his dog-killing arena and he got in there to bare-knuckle box with some other dumb-ass wht don't people care about cows and pigs and chickens thatt get killed everyday? why don't we get a message board full of people who want to speak out agains t game hunters, or vp cheney out there shooting quails with shotguns? the cultural issue has to come up. it's ok for farmers to make a living raising innocent animals to be killed, or hunters to shoot defenseless animals while hiding with guns, but dogfighting is so abhorrent. i guess it just depends on what type of person you are. i'd like all yall meat eaters to think about the innocent animals harmed next time you eat a steak, chicken breast, or hot dog.
If this was anybody other than Mike Vick do you really beleive there would be Federal charges brought against him???
To lose your temper by fighting in a nightclub, or even being ignorant enough to get behind the wheel of a car drunk shows at worst an extreme lack of self control at best ignorance. The writer of this article and anyone reading it could easily make a error of that degree on a daily basis. My statement, in no way is meant to demean what Leonard did. I will say the average person can relate and feel pity for him as the intent of his actions that night were not to 'kill' anyone. Commiting the crime of druken driving after his first accident certainly pushes the line of accountability though. Simply put though you can ease some of the rage toward him by the very relatable/negative connotations related to alcholism.
Financing, running, and profiting in such a cruel endeavor as 'dog-fighting' is much more difficult to relate too. Micheal Vick is a millionaire many times over, so the idea that his 'hobby' was buying, training and breeding dogs to be killed, is very diffcult for the average person to relate too. This was what he did for fun. With his money he could have chosen to do ANYTHING. Name a pasttime that Micheal Vick could not have financed. The only one I can think of is possibly space travel. Yet he chose to fight dogs to the death, while gambling on it. It's just offensive and rediculous and I can't understand it. Anyone ever read Peta's stance on the Pitbull Terrier? They feel the species should be exterminated. Do I think Vick did these things. He probably did some in some capacity, but to read people convict him beofore he has had a trial is very ignorant. He should be on the field now, because he hasn't been convicted of anything. Anyone who says drinking is disease is also very ignorant. It is a choice and only a choice. It only became a disease when this country became too politically correct.
Vick is getting exactly waht he deserves. Dogfighting aside he is still a bad person, flicking off fans, getting caught with what could have been pot, and giving a woman the herp. Not to mention his brother, you know what they say " the apple doesnt fall far from the tree". Anyone that gives Vick any justification is a complete idiot. Now I hope they start going after Portis, I'm sure his stupid comments had something to do with him being involved in dogfighting too.
is it cruel to spay and neuter dogs too since they have no say in that? i mean the things we as people put up with versus the things we condemn is laughable. the us gov't permitted slavery of human beings for hundreds of years and now they decide to stand up for dogs. black PEOPLE didn't have rights in america until almost the sixties and now a man is losing his job and livlihood over what he did to his own dogs. We honor past presidents and politicians despite the fact that they participated in slavery. washington dc has a monument for noted slave owner thomas jefferson. was his participation in slavery not abhorrent?
White and Latinos people partake in dog fighting as well. Its prevalent in the South. So its just not a problem amongst black communities. Your comments are an example of your inherent racism.
Seems to m the whole world labeled Kobe a rapist until the charges were dropped. Leonard Little- while stupid and negligent- did not intend to harm anyone.
The details of what these 'men' did to those animals shows a sick pleasure in doing what they did. There is a special place in hell for them and hopefully for journalists who hink it's no big deal. One thing to be aware of, Federal Prosecutors do not bring charges unless they can conVICKt. 95% of all charges brought in federal courts end with either a guilty plea deal or a conviction. This is not some local jackass bringing charges because it's Vick and he wants his name in the paper. Once the Feds get involved, you are screwed
GOOD ARTICLE. PEOPLE MUST SEEM TO FORGET THAT DOG FIGHTING WAS HERE BEFORE MIKE VICK AND WILL BE HERE AFTER HIS COURT APPEARANCE. WE ARE SO QUICK TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON SO FEW FACTS, JUST TO SAVE FACE.
I feel so bad for millionaire pro athletes that get treated unfairly..
I would say that Woman have cried wolf quite a few times (AKA Kobe and in my mind Mike Tyson's cases Oh and don't for get the Duke Lacrosse incidnt.)That people would take it a lot more seriously.
Woman are messing that up for themselves. Not to say that if it is actulaay a legit case of rape the raper does deserve to have a certain essential part cutt off. so the meat industry tortures animals all the time to max thier profits. why are they not held liable? vick tortures animals for fun and money and so does the meat industry.
why r black people ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent( sometimes even guilty when proven innocent..what up O.J.)but white people like scooter libby, and Paris Hilton are seen as victims even after they are found guilty?WTF
i really think all of you are missing the point in pac man has had about 10 Criminal charges against him in order for him to get suspended for the entire year he assoiciated with gunz fights and just overall violence since he came in the leauge. Michael Vick has been an outstanding citizien of the alanta and Newport News community since he entered the NFL he has never had any criminal charges against him yet for some reason this is worst then pacman kobe, Learnod little, steroids, but i ask you honestly would this happen to Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Brett Favre of course not he hasn't been convicted yet, but we all speculate his career is in jeopordy how can one justify that. he doesn't go to court until November he is being targeted and unfairly treated his punishment out weighs his crime simply because he hasn't been convicted yet i think the NFL is just praying for a lawsuit vick might not see it but i am damn sure his lawyers will see the unfair treatment he recieving prematurly
People...I think what Vick did was wrong and he should be punished if guilty, but animal abuse is just not the same as violence against people.
As a society we like to humanize dogs because we bring them into our home and treat them like family, but that doesn't make them human. News flash, we kill hundreds of millions of animals a year as a society for our consumption and use. The means of killing these animals in slaughterhouses is brutal and is actually worse than what Vick is accused of, yet we conveniently ignore that because puppies are cute and pigs, chickens, cows and horses aren't. I'm not advocating abusing animals, I agree that only the sick at heart take pleasure in it, but how about some perspective people. Raise your hand if you don't eat meat, wear leather, use make-up, or take medicine. If your hand is up, you get to raise a stink about killing animals...the rest of you sit down and shut up because you use products that require animals to die. Drinking is not a disease, it's not contagious, it's not passed down except through learned behavior. Little is a huge piece of human excrament and should have been kicked out the league. People have been too quick to crap on Vick. But everyone kind of knew that woman that accused Kobe was after his cash, and Vick is beyond guilt, it's not like there is even a chance of innocence.
I don't feel bad for Ron Mexico at all. You can bet that almost every one of us would of been fired the next day, if these charges were filed against us!
You mention the Bird and Water Bottle. You forgot to mention Ron Mexico. Remember him? And with all the crap Marcus pulled in Blacksburg, coupled with Vick being the MOST overrated QB to play the game (he may be the BEST athlete in the NFL, no doubt, but he's not a good NFL QB), is it really any wonder the public has such a visceral reaction to this despicable act of cruelty? Still, the author's point is well taken. But saying that sponsor didnt' abandon Kobe so they shouldn't Vick is like saying two wrongs make a right. They should have dumped that POS rapist Bryant too.
While trying to intelligently start a conversation about society's priorities, I think you may have opened to door to many animal cruelty, i.e. dogfighting, apologists and defenders. It is noble, as a Williams grad, that you want to bring domestic abuse and sexual assault, statistically perpetuated more against women, to the forefront of society's acceptance of crime.
As a person who volunteers at a domestic violence shelter, and advocates heavily for fender equality, I see the damage of the societal ill first hand. And that it is, an ill of all of society. But, that's where the problem may lie, mysogeny is ingrained in our society, possible changing little by little. Systemized animal cruelty and brutality is not. We don't have bullfights in the present day, we no longer have bear baiting and dogfighting at Madison Square Garden, so many in society find in disgusting, hence the backlash. Also, in American society, we abhor those who intentionally(as well as systematically and meticulously, in Vick's case) harm, or even kill, the innocent. Incidentally, when the FBI profiles serial murderers what do search for and find, cruelty and abuse of animals. Possibly, deep down, society knows this and a baser disgust comes forth. As to Nike and others, they have to sell merchandise, if their endorser hurts that ability, either by behavior or poor performance, it's their right to do as they please. As to the HFL, they have a product like any other, not to mention a government protected virtual monopoly and trust that they really don't want to lose, so when senators start calling for his head, they are forced to act. Either way, the issues brought up in your column deserve a much more complex discussion than many of the comments which attempt to hide or justify the barbaric nature of Vick's alleged crime, as equally as it deserves more than those that outright vilify him above all others. And now we get to think for Vick and his co d's too. I seriously doubt that there is any substantiated claim or account of Vick saying he took pleasure in killing any animal. Furthermore, i don't think any dogfighter or dog fight spectator would take an injured dog to a vet, because they would get hasseled and possibly reported for dog fighting. If dogfighting were legal i think more owners would take their injured or losing dogs to vets or animal refuge places .
Seriously, its not that the anger and outrage is out of proportion with Vick, its that it was out of proportion with the other criminals in the league. Under Paul Tagliabue, whether it was his own doing, or the politics at the time, did little in regards to punishment for some vary serious Personal Conduct issues. I can only hope that the new and improved Conduct Policies continue to be enforced.
I agree totally. Today's society seems more concerned with saving animals than humans. I have two pet dogs that I love but they are still just dogs. Human life is more precious because we are made in the image of God. God decided that we should have dominion over animals but with that dominion comes responsibility to treat animals as God intended. So if Vick is guilty he should do the crime but this crime is no where near the level of a crime against a human.
I have read many coments on hear and lots are true on both ends but the end results are and by reading what some of you are saying is that a dog is more precious than a human life and that is crazy. A women beaten someone killed, shot or murdered is 100 times worse than the fighting of dogs.
Yet the person hated more is the latter does that really make sence. You sit and talk about animal cruelity what about Rodoes they rope calf running full speed and break some of the calves neck but where is the outrage there it is none and why because it is an accepted culture. The callves have no choice as the dogs had none but where is the outrage. We go futher we hunt all the time and there is no outrage when it comes to hunting again a part of culture that is accepted. So the true question is what animals do we fight for and which do we not. That a easy answer the one in whick the marjority of out culture accepts. So is it truely a race issue not totally but to some extent. Yet one can make the statment cows chickens and other animals life is not at valauble as a dog but who get to decide that the domintating culture for in many asian countries dogs are eaten as we eat cows. So we sit and scream about Vick but why not about the system, where one cruealty is fine but another is said to be so barbaric. But are we not a barbaric society that finds pleasure in pain It find it hilarious and indicative of how detached from reality sports "fans" really are when people who have never met Vick, have only seen Vick on a football field on t.v., and have never had a conversation with him, make moral judgement about his personal character based on the allegations of co-defendents they don't know who no doubt have dubious records themselves. But I'll bet every one of you would want the benefit of the doubt yourselves if in a similar situation. Stop putting so much value on what you see and hear on T.V. and grow brains that use reason. Just because its on T.V. doesn't make it so children.
There is a purpose to those slaughter houses. We eat that food. What purpose did killing a dog that didn't perform well in a test fight serve?
That was simply for their sick amusement. Goes to show Money can't buy a soul. It is not just this recent case that led to Vick being vilafied. He is an overall idiot. He gived the one finger salute to his fans (which thenm turns around and asks for us to have undersatanding when he has this happen to him (get's caught). What has this guy ever donr to upgrade his image? Wow how society has fallen. Please stop comparing what Mr. Vick did with things like DUI and rape. first of Mr. Vick is linked with deaths of up to 60 dogs, If he gets the max of 6 years that only 1 year for every 10 dogs. If Mr. Vick raped or killed 60 human beings he would be dead by lethal injection. I agree that humans are way more important than animals and I beleive the law provides for it but I think the bigger picture is that this guy knowingly willing sat around and enjoyed the viscious death of a living breathing entity and in addition visciously killed entities that did not show the willingness to provide him his viewing pleasure.
Obvoiusly Terrence is not a big fan of dogs. Are you actually saying that slamming a dog off the pavement until it no longer moves is less of a crime than an assualt against a human? That makes no sense.
I hope Vick never plays another down in the NFL!!! you are all nothing but a bunch of hypocrites and clowns. People hunt dear everyday in this country, Im sure your beloved white quarterbacks like brett favre and some other down south clown quarterbacks hunt all kinds of animals. But when A black man has a minor part to do with the fighting of animals that naturally already fight, you want to hang him. They are dogs for christ sake, dogs. You want to take away his lively hood and his freedom for funding these events. We don't even know if he did it directly, he's not even guilty yet but if he was killed today you would all be like yes, one more hoodlum off the streets. You people make me sick, Im sad to say I am in Iraq for you all right now.
Anyone remember how Chris Terry, who was starting left tackle at the time, was released by the Carolina Panthers? If you guessed spousal abuse you would be correct. It is not that no one cares about the issue of domestic violence, it is that the media does not view it as "sellable" news. Anyone else remember what happened to Chris Terry after he was released? He ended up being signed the next day by the Seattle Seahawks, without on drop of national media coverage on the subject.
it't the flippin' media that blew this out of proportion and encouraged and amplified the vocal proponents... Darant Williams was murdered and there wasn't nearly the uproar...where's our priority and perspective?
the thing that turned the public against Vick was that stupid quote about eletrocuting, hanging and slamming dogs. Before that, it was just, Vick was involved in dogfighting - most people would be like, "meh". The "gory" details were used to promote shock value. It's sucks Vick might have done this to those dogs, but Pete, you're TOTALLY RIGHT - Americans are definetely blowing this out of proportion (and it all stems from that one quote - I guarantee it).
Vick is a sick individual who will be convicted. He felt his money would protect him as it has many in the past but no such luck this time. He IS guiltyl, will be PROVEN guilty and should NEVER be allowed to play in the NFL again. PERIOD.
Anyone who thinks he didn't do it or supports him in any way is just as sick as him! For the poster who mentioned a connection between people who abuse animals and people who harm humans, you will find the facts here: http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/abuse_connection.php
Many people who are capable of harming animals will go on to harm humans! This is a fact. PETA had over 30 millon in profits last year, Did they use that money to feed the starving , NO, They set up spike traps on roads that led to legal hunting areas ,so to disable automoblies,confronted hunters with violance , They are not as clean cut as they are being made out to be. They have a number of cases pending against this organization,for harresment and as called by the leagl community terrorist treats
Pete,
What you obviously cannot seem to fathom in your shallow article is the fact that dogfighting and other such violent pastimes breed and enable other forms of human depravity such as drugs, gambling, guns and gangs. People who engage in dogfighting are not only putting innocent creatures thru unbelievable pain and suffering, but also derive pleasure out of it as if they are watching a casual sport. We were outraged when we heard about Abu Ghraib and how humans were mentally tortured and subjugated by American soldiers. Dogfighting is an even more extreme variety of the same kind of thoughtless crime. It is a well documented and statistically proven fact that people who engage in animal cruelty have the same attitude towards other humans and are involved in other illegal activities. Don't just look at this as a "Vick is being punished for fighting dogs" issue. There is something much more sinister and evil about someone who enjoys the spectacle of 2 animals shredding each other to death and then electocutes the losing participant than just being a "dogfighter". This is why everyone with a sane mind - including greedy corporations, the NFL and the law are cracking down on Vick and his cronies. I hope they burn in hell for what they did the past 6 years while earning millions and the adoration of people all over the world. Let's not forget that Ray Lewis plead guilty in connection with the murders of two human beings. His career never missed a beat!
It's alright we are sad to say you are there for us too. lol...use common sense man. Most hunt and eat what the kill what was the purpose of killing the dog did he eat it. It's a Food chain not a murder chain.
Miored, did the all white Duke Lacrosse team get treated fairly before trial ? Did they get kicked out before the trial ? This has nothing to do with a race issue. Its about right or wrong. And lately justice has not been served.
Nicole and Ron's murderer is writing books and living the good life, Reginald Denny's attackers are enjoying life on the streets. Everyone can name someone getting away, maybe if their is enough public pressure the will start to convict these people. I'm not sure whether it matters that this is fair or proportional. No one ever said that the business of celebrity had to be fair or consistent. Vick accepted those terms when his celebrity made him fantastically rich. He really can't run from them now that that light of celebrity has gone from warm to burning. Just ask Martha Stewart: the same celebrity that made her rich also made her an attractive "statement" target for prosecutors. In either case there is nothing unfair about it: this is a wild roller coaster ride, no doubt, but one that they got on of their own free will.
One other thing: the charges against Vick speak to a kind of gratuitous malice or sadism, which really does make them different. As a friend put it to me: "If Vick did this, the difference between him and, say, Latrell Sprewell is the difference between being a sociopath and having poor impulse control". That is what I think separates him from (most of) the rest. Agreed. There is waayyy to much hypocracy in our society. Boxing and football are violent sports. I'm not sure the general [self-deceiving] public understands just how violent they. Then they have the nerve to condemn someone who gets paid to make a living in such a violent activity when he has violent hobbies. I don't condone dog-fighting, but I eat meat everyday; and those cows, chickens, and pigs were raised to be killed. Just like those dogs. Think about that. When are professional sports going to get serious about punishing crimes against humans, and cleaning up the rampant steriod abuse that leads to more and more injuries,conditions,etc? Probably as soon the public stops deceiving itself and demands change.
I find it funny and very hypocritical that the very same dogs that Vick and is associates are accused of fighting and mistreating are banned in many cities across the country, and the In-Humane Society kills this breed(pitbull)upon receipt. You can't even adopt a pitbull from them just because it's a pitbull. So my question is where is PETA and all the other so called dog loving patriots out there that let's breed discrimination carry on. These dogs are dying everyday just because of what they are with or without Vick, for not being up to par.
okay, dog hater
people have a choose when they do stupid things dogs don't I wonder how much money you've won on Vicks dogs? I hope he rots in prison, he deserves it if proven guilty. I have a pitbull, and it's idiots like Vick that make it hard for the rest of us to keep out beloved Pitbulls. People always want to say they are born to be mean, that is not true. I have a very loveble dog and that would never attack another person or dog. I actually had to move to another state in order to keep my dog. No person should treat animals of any kind like he did. I'm sure he wouldn't want to be treated that way. Lets spray him down with water and shock him and see how he likes that.
pv2 Spencer, thank you for serving. Make it home safe. But your wrong about the black and white issue. Vick has been nothing more than a punk since joining the league. He is an over paid average QB. Look at his stats. They do not lie. He flips off his own fans because he cannot live up to his salary. He give STD to women, and then tries to cover up by using Ron Mexico as his name. He thinks he is above the law. They call him a superstar, but why? He is an average player getting press for a wicked crime. So be it.
i think you are all missing the point. when the FEDS bring the case...you are dried and fried. they do not waste their time otherwise. the other examples are local problems and the rape allegation was a dud from the beginning since she had sex with 9857987457 other men that night. so to recap FEDS = you are screwed, a la Michael Vick
Kryptoskeptic, thanks. Any errors I may have made are simple ones at that. What I'm talking about is gross abuses of established style guides (e.g. Chicago Manual of Style) and spelling. I don't care if what's at issue are colloquialisms - if you have an opinion, think very carefully how you are going to present it. I never said that I was perfect or an arbiter of style, usage, spelling, etc. Of course I make mistakes. Of course I speak or type before my brain catches up, but I try and catch myself before I make a total ass of myself. Kryptoskeptic, thanks for pointing that stuff out. I wish there wer emore people like you for me to bounce ideas off of.
The unfortunate reality of blogging or commenting is that anybody with an internet connection can voice their opinion. The technlology to make one's point does not inherently mean that you are capable of rational thought. This is clearly indicated by the overwhelming amount of cowardly idiots who: a) feel that the are smarter than compost; and b) use crutches like a facile interpretation of constitutional rights, "the race card," and/or "abuse against women, children, etc." I don't acknowledge anybody who doesn't have the guts to stand behind what they're saying AND enter into a debate on this issue. Some of the comments made to this article have left me with the impression that it would be a complete waste of effort to try and reason with some people, and if I hurt some people's feelings, too bad for them. Michael Vick may not have raped a woman, but he sure as Hell given her Herpes, an everlasting reminder of what a scumbag he is. Does this have any direct bearing on his recent indictments? No. However, it doesn't exactly present a rosy picture of him, does it? What if it were your sister, mother, or daughter? How would you feel? Did you even know about this, are you concerned, or do you even give a damn? Think about this - some of the 54 dogs rescued were so savagely abused, that it would not be possible to rehabilitate them, thus they will have to be put down. What if it were your dog? Remember - these are not wild animals. While they are domesticated, they have obviously been abused, conditioned, and reduced to killing machines. They would still be unable to fend for themselves if placed in the wild as some have suggested. This will surely be a test of Michael Vick's Constitutional Rights to a fair trial. I hope that he is intelligent enough to understand that much, and that if it weren't for his rights, he would end up far worse than one of the dogs propped up on the rape stand at Bad Newz Kennels. To the anonymous poster who stated that ALL americans have gotten behind the wheel of a car drunk -- speak for yourself. I , and most of the people I konw, have NEVER been even remotely close to drunk behind the wheel.
As for pro atheletes it is even LESS understandable than for you or I to get a DUI -- with how much they make, hire a driver and not have to worry about it. As for he who puts "amerikkka" - please. This is not 1860, nor even 1960. There are always small minded bigots who hate someone who is different than them color, gender, socioeconomic class, nationality -- when you make statements and assumptions regarding such, you are merely fanning hate. The Federal Gov't record on dogfighting prosecutions is out of this world -- because of the nature and secrecy in dogfighting, they rarely bring charges -- only when they are as close to positive as it is possible to get that they will secure a conviction. Finally, I agree with an earlier post that if Little did now, what he did then, he would face a likely 1 year suspension. Goodell is as tired of lawbreakers as we are. When these guys are making 300,000 a game -- 2 game suspension = 600,000. He's hitting them where it hurts. About time. I wish a reporter, any reporter had the guts to ask the bigger questions and print the answers from the NFL Commissioner and the Atlanta Falcons:
Michael Vick and his brother Marcus were taken care of by the NCAA through their college years just to get them to the point where they were deliverable to the NFL as athletes (Marcus didn't quite make it through his college career). By all accounts they're poorly educated, to say they are college graduates who took much of an interest in their education is a joke. The NFL is using the NCAA as a minor league development program and the "academics" are just a side-show. Then the NFL wonders why they get athletes with "character" issues??? The Falcons had to of known or had a real high suspiscion about what was going on. They didn't want to know - they were more interested in (again) covering up the dirty parts of Vick's persona and protecting the foolish behavior of Vick to keep him on the field. The Falcons are as much to blame as Vick for his behavior, they're equally responsible for letting this go on for years. The comments by others like Portis and Emmitt Smith - its IS a black thing. Specifically a southern cultural black thing. There is an environment in the deep south about pet ownership and care that is not aligned with other parts of the country. If this had been a regional issue (Feds didn't get involved) the prevailing attitude would have been that its not that big of a deal. Portis and Smith are a product of the same cultural environment Vick is - no real shock that their views are similar. I think Kobe's case was a little different then Vick's. Kobe's was he said she said and it ended up that he was just a man whore not a rapist. But, the public doesn't really disbar man whores, actually they mostly celebrate it.
Now Vick on the other hand had a ton of dead dogs barried on his land, a bunch of thugs as friends, and whitnesses that say he was at the property. Even if he wasn't aware of it, I would dump him for supporting the people that were. He bought the property, he supplied the cash, not really somone that you want to be associated with. Now Leonard Little, I would definitely get rid of him too. In fact he should probably be locked away. 60 days seems a little lax for killing someone while your blood alcohol level is twice the legal limit. I would have to agree with that one. It's about time someone had the guts and common sense to write a piece like this. If Vick indeed did what he's alleged to have done, he should be punished. But I think people have gotten their values skewed when they place dogs, cats, or other pets in the same league as human beings. We should treat animals well, but we should treat each other as human beings better.
I personally think the huge public outcry in this case is a result of the public being tired of the "thug life" image that many malcontents in the NFL portray, and it's no surpise that Madison Avenue is more concerned about not being picketed by PETA than standing behind principles (remember innocent until PROVEN guilty, not guilty until proven otherwise). I also think the public is a little tired of the rich and famous getting off of charges or seemingly preferential treatment by the law and they want to exact their pound of flesh from Vick because it would appear in this situation they can. Anyway, great piece. Keep up the good work! I see a number of comments where people are saying that the media is blowing the story out of proportion and giving it front page headlines when it doesn't deserve it. Judging by the number of responses Pete has gotten, there is a lot of interest in this story. Remeber that the media companies reporting this story are ultimately a bussiness that wants to sell a product. If there is no interest in a story - it will run for a day at best, if people want to see it - it will run longer. And for all you people that are sick of it - change the channel or don't read it.
If I were a sponsor who had millions of dollars at stake, I would be backing away from Vick just as rapidly. They have products and commitments to fans to protect that far outweigh any commitment to Vick. When it comes to sponsorships, perception is everything- Vick has blown it and that is no fault of the people who are now wisely distancing themselves from his irresponsible actions.
It kills me how quick people are condeming Vick. He has been charged with something very bad. But when did we place animal cruelty over that of humans. Woman are raped and degraded but it is accepted. Again I reiteriate the crime for which vick is accuse is very bad but these are animals. Vick is being treated as though he killed someone and he's being shuned. I am no Vick lover(NO Saints Fan)but I hate the way everyone is piling onto this man and he has olny been accused of the crime. If he is not guilt then what? You can't take it all back. In order for there to be justice one is judged by the just. Vick treatment so far is extremely unjust.
What ever happened to innocent to proven guilty.....or the right to a fair trail.....what he did, if he did it, was wrong, but this is still America, the land of the free, home of the brave....he still has rights just like every other American....sounds like shoot first ask later....America is better than this....thanks Charlie in Georgia
Though dogs are beloved by many people, they are considered property. If he destroyed the property he paid for, Is that not his opition. In some cultures animal sacrifice is common. Dogs are animals and should not be considered the equevilant of a human.
Let me state this emphatically....
What Vick did is DEAD wrong...It's despicable....on the verge of being totally and utterly inhuman... That being said.... Rich....you are so far off base it isn't funny....Are you....SERIOUSLY....I said SERIOUSLY...comparing the taking of a human life to the taking of a dogs life?? premeditated or not. I mean really....now!!! The writer is dead on....I saw no outrage on Little....I didn't see this kind of craziness against Kobe..... This is about keeping things in it's proper place.... I could make this a long write up but I'll try to keep it short and sweet....or just short... If your position is one that compares human life to that of a dog on any level....YOU ARE WRONG...Just as much as Vick is wrong YOU ARE ALSO..... Vick....short and sweet for you....You are undoubtfully the biggest IDIOT I know...You won it in a landslide... You are making 130M over 5 yrs I believe and you are gambling that against 26K dog fights? Are you mental?? And we are only talking about loosing your job but you could go to prison also....Are you INSANE?? You know how many people want what you have and you throw it away on S@@T like this!! PETA is a joke.....An absoluet JOKE. They are full of HYPOCRITS...Did you all watch Penn and Tellers BS on them? This couldn't be blown more out of proportion. In the pacman case a human being was left paralyzed. Look I love dogs, but let's face the facts....these are animals people!!! They are a side dish in china!!! Besides where are all of these suppossed "animal lovers" while our government is passing BREED SPECIFIC LEGISLATURE. That's right people if you own a pitbull in the city limits of Denver they will come and take your dog and KILL IT! That's right, the govn't has systematically killed 100 times more pitbulls than Vick has. And guess what they're trying to pass the same law right here in Cali, statewide. So please pull your heads out of your behinds and look at what is going on around you!
thank you for speaking what everyone is thinking but no one can say, what he is accused of is unlawful and abhorrent but is not worse than domestic violence
I wonder what the authorities are going to do with the dogs they conviscated. Probably a lethal injection....
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's Paul Zeise just said the exact same thing on TV as this column said, yet he's been kicked off of the air and the station has apologized profusely as a result. I think you both make an excellent point: where's the tremendous outrage when an athlete mistreats a human being?
I think one of the biggest things that people are missing when comparing Vick to Ray Lewis, any of the Bengals or whoever else is that everybody besides Vick engaged in poor judgement regarding their own behavior at a single given point in time. Pacman, you shouldn't have gone to that strip club. Chris Henry, you shouldn't have been in that hotel room with that underage girl. These are singular incidents, and I don't want to use the word 'isolated,' because they do lend credence to a larger pattern of behavior. But when you look at Vick's case, at the indictment, how long has this been going on? Since 2001? Six years. SIX. How many fights, how many dead dogs in those six years of illegal, abhorrent behavior? Was Ray Lewis witness to a murder every year for six years? Has Pacman been causing chaos in strip clubs for six years? (No, only two, but has he killed a living creature there?)
When due process takes its course, we'll be able to best decide the punishment for Vick, if he is found guilty. But this is not a hidden camera taping Vick kicking a dog. This is not Vick attending one dog fight and being caught. Those events warrant outrage and a heartfelt apology or public service. But if the allegations are true that he was really running this ring, all the inhuman outrage he finds directed at him will be justly deserved. What ever happen to the great USA innocent until proven guilty. Vick has been found guilty without even going to court.With they way the media is all over this he can never get a fair trial.
I think we should look at the vulnerability of the animals in question here. These dogs did not have a choice for their lives the choices were made for them. The animals were raised to be killers and when they were no longer useful they were tortured and then killed. As far as I'm concerned Vick is getting of easy. Abuse against women and children is despicable as well but I don't understand why canine abuse should be minimized. Abuse against anything vulnerable is despicable and Vick should be put in a ring and have the dogs he trained get a chance at him. Then he'll see how barbaric the sport actually is.
Anonymous said: "why r black people ALWAYS guilty until proven innocent( sometimes even guilty when proven innocent..what up O.J.)but white people like scooter libby, and Paris Hilton are seen as victims even after they are found guilty?WTF"
Scooter Libby was a scapegoat/fallguy of a political process, the verdict a foregone conclusion before the trial began. (As was his pardon.) As for Paris, you have got to be kidding me! Who in the world (excluding people with the last name "Hilton") ever considered her a victim? This whole incident just brings to light how Americans value animals over even more despicable acts towards human beings. Most of Americans treat dogs/cats/ect as if they were humans and give them the same rights and privledges. If you think about this, he is being treated as if he killed, tortured, and forced human beings to fight to the death. What is even worst in my opinion is that people are rushing to convict him before his right of due process by law. This whole incident is sad from any angle that you look at it.
Vick's planning and financing the dog fights is disgusting. Little's driving drunk AGAIN after already killing a woman is also disgusting. I don't care if drinking is a disease or not, he's a scumbag who shouldn't be playing in the NFL anymore. If Vick is found guilty, he should be kicked out, too.
The post by Jim W dated August 2, 2007 11:03 AM should be required reading for anyone who posts comments on this story. Well stated!
Wow, some people posting here are simply not in touch with reality. Listen, stop trying to associate this crime with any other crime that has occurred such as rape, domestic violence, murder, etc (we’re not talking about people, so don’t compare them). Also, do not compare the Kobe incident to this one. Anyone who knows anything about our judicial system (and I am referring to those who work within the judicial system, such as myself) can plainly see there is a lot of evidence surrounding this case. Yes, it is true that people have been falsely accused but this guy has SEVERAL witnesses against him, as well as A LOT of physical evidence (It is not even a possibility that this is a conspiracy…so don’t go there). I can’t say he is definitely guilty but the odds are definitely stacked against him.
So what is really the issue here? People are saying he is guilty before he goes to trial? Answer: Who the hell cares, it’s an opinion people, get over it. Or maybe that his sponsors dropped him? It’s a business decision that was appropriate seeing as how he has gotten himself into a major dilemma! I would have dropped his butt too and that’s considering I have no real opinion of the guy. What else…Oh let’s see, how about those brainless wonders who compare the savage and brutal way he killed these dogs to the killing of animals we use for sustenance, such as cows, chickens, and pigs? Wow, how often do you eat dog? Oh, and when you do eat a burger, do you drown or electrocute the cow to kill it? I am by no means an animal rights activist, but you need to stop these outlandish comparisons. Think before you mash those digits into the keyboard for the world to see! There are several reasons why this instance is different than many others, just think about it and you may be able to seem them. If not, I fear my worst nightmare has come true and I am surrounded by people who think Harry Potter novels are based on a true story!! Rich, how do you know this, where you there....? My point is he has not been convicted of anything, yet and I thought we lived in a county where you were innocent until proven guilty. I guess that is no longer true.....real sad....!
I believe the real difference ...at least to me...is the cruelty exhibited..it is just not normal to want to electrocute, drown, or beat to death anything
Someone asked if this weren't Michael Vick do you think federal charges would be pressed?
Yes, in fact the other 3 defendants in the case name is not Michael Vick, the FELONY CRIME was committed across several states making it a federal case. The only difference in this case that if it were not Michael Vick you would never hear about it because the media would not report it. I am actually surprised by the number of people who are mad at the attention this is receiving. I don't think I have heard any good reason why. The only argument being made is that "such-and-such" happened that was worse than this and the reaction wasn't the same. Shouldn't we just be happy that these criminals are being prosecuted? Should we let these people go because people have done worse and not been prosecuted to this extent? I would have to live in a world where we prosecute current crimes based on what was or was not prosecuted in the past. For those of you that feel that crimes committed against humans are worse than crimes against dogs you are entitled to your opinion. Just realize that it is YOUR OPINION and others like myself consider my dog as important as any person in my life. It seems as though everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. Even the ex-klansman politician screaming "barbaric". he needs to sit his old a-- down. So many people are taking this out of perspective by calling this barbaric and it is...but my thought is if you are spitting venom at Vick because it is barbaric and you watch the ground and pound shows like MMA and UFC then you are a hypocrite. Humans spitting out blood getting beat into submission. Now that is barbaric. As a viewer, if you like this this then I can't see too much difference in the act of dog fighting. This is putting all legal issues aside as i am speaking on you as the "viewer" and what you enjoy.
Before the indictment was printed and all we knew about were the "dog fighting" allegations, Vick was already getting hate, this is before the gross details. Vick in the news about dog fighting, ESPN or Sportcenter shows dog fighting footage. This was like two days after he was accused. Why not showing rape footage after Kobe was accused, or wife beating coverage when Bobby Cox or Jason Kidd was accused of beating his wife, or showing somebody shooting up with the steroid scandal. The media is help fueling this. On the bare bone level..it is wrong but it is still a dog. That Crazy politician talked about executing Vick...what is having...flashbacks. Not only as outraged but all of his sponsors as well as the NFL would be dropping him like a bad habit.
There are people who get paroled for long term child molestation and people are calling for the head of a guy who killed animals. Both are despicable acts but it doesn't say much for a society that is more visibly outraged about the animals then their own kind......
The reason people are outraged over this, is because most of us decent people go through life not even contemplating that someone could do something so barbaric. Crimes against other people at least have some rationale...Greed, hatred(whether deserved or not), etc...but a chained up dog has no defense nor can a dog "deserve" to be beaten or killed.
Murder occurs often enough. You can't avoid being aware of it since its on the news every night. But dogfighting is an underground thing that most people aren't familiar with. Its a shock. Its the huge difference between reality and what our perceptions of reality used to be. Perhaps it's an indication that the public opinion pendulum is swinging from apathy toward giving a damn, and sponsors are reacting to that. The fact is that there has been an ever-increasing snowball of reprehensible behavior on the part of high-profile sports figures, and I think people have just had enough.
Dog fighting is entirely different from MMA fighting like UFC. One major difference is that in MMA, they are trained fighters acting on free will to make money for themselves. In MMA there is a ref and there are rules which are enforced. In MMA its not to the death. In MMA, they wear gloves to reduce the severity of the damage. In MMA, they stop fights when someone is injured. In MMA, the fighters heal after a loss and fight again later rather than taken out back and shot, electrocuted, or beaten to death. In dogfighting, they are being forced to fight to the death for someone else's greed.
Stupid arguement. The difference between this and Kobe? Kobe was a golden boy with no offenses ever who was accused under dubious circumstances of rape. There was plenty of room for doubt in that circumstance. Kobe owned up to his adultery and found forgiveness from his wife and sure enough, charges were dropped.
We all know the chances of Vick being innocent is miniscule. It was on his property, and asking us to believe he knew nothing about it is retarded. Does he think we are that stupid? And after all of the other incidents he has been in? If there were a ton of eyewitnesses and the FBI constantly returning to the scene of Kobe's 'rape' he would have been as in as much trouble. Thank you Kryptoskeptic for the kind words. I love our country and our constitutional freedoms, I just hate when they are twisted to meet somebody's personal agenda.
To the person who is comparing dog fighting to UFC: I don't know how you draw the conclusion that two human beings with the freedom of choice is the same as two dogs who have no choice in the matter. The dogs live short, horrible lives. The UFC fighters have willingly accepted the pain they endure for the BETTER lifestyle it will allow them to have. I don't like to stoop to name calling so I will only say that the person who says blacks are presumed guilty while Paris Hilton is treated like a victim is truly misguided. I don't know anyone over the age of 20 who doesn't think Paris Hilton should have done more jail time. The WHITE players in the Duke Lacrosse case were presumed guilty with absolutely no evidence againt them. In fact the rogue prosecutor continued his abuse of the system even when the DNA didn't match and a couple of the kids had air tight alibies. Only our court system owes Vick the presumption of innocence. I as an individual have already decided that he is a poor excuse for a human being based on what I know as FACT: - He owned the property - Dogs were bread on the property for fighting - Dog fights occurred on the property - Dogs were killed in some of the worst ways imaginable - The other 3 defendants in the case were family/friends of Michael Vick These are facts that are indisputable. Even if a court finds him innocent of running a dog fighting ring that doesn't mean that he didn't know about the happenings on his property. Common sense says that at the very least he knew what was occurring and did nothing to stop it. Indifference to the problem is as bad as participating in it. this is a great little entry...he really got to the point. They are treating Vick as if he killed a human. Leonard Little did just that, and you can't say that it was unintional, it wasn't by any means, basically driking enough to get drunk and taking the risk of driving knowing in the back of your mind that you have a high chance of not only killing yourself, but taking another life, is a real thought out plan. But did he get all the negative attention that Vick is getting? NOPE!! And these are the same animals that people hate, teh same animals that kill not only adults but little babies. EIther way you look at it, EVERYBODY is blowing this whole thing out of proportion
Technically, an issue can not be "blown out of proportion". It is only getting the attention that it is because the majority of people care. If the majority of people didn't care it would have been reported and forgotten.
The people who think that it is being blown out of proportion are those who just don't care that much so they are tired of hearing it. That is your right to not care but don't dismiss this as a minor issue being blow out of proportion. It is a fairly significant issue to a majority of individuals and the last time I checked a democracy is run by what the majority of people decide. DOGS DO NOT HAVE A SOUL!!
ITS NOT THAT SERIOUS. UGH PEOPLE ARE SO FREAKING JUDGEMENTAL IT MAKES NO SENSE!!!!!! I am just tired of hearing this story on an hourly basis. Can the public and the media just forgot about this guy?? Yes he and his crew need to face the justice system but do we need to hear as if it was 911 all over again?? Every day I turn on the news and see Vick all over the place. The true sadness is it that so many people want to know what happens to this guy? Is Vick that much a role model or even someone to really care about? What if Tiger Woods or even someone like Bill Gates was accused of this type of crime? I think the world as we know it would just stop.
From Personally Disgusted. what is this writer NUTS???
He electrocuted animals for NOT SAVAGLY killing another animal... This guy should never be given an INCH of space to write in. what is this writer NUTS???
He electrocuted animals for NOT SAVAGLY killing another animal... This guy should never be given an INCH of space to write in. really...its DOGS were talking about. Not people. DOGS...many people who have negative opitions about this situation basically got told what to do by the media. animl cruelty is wrong but ALL THis for DOGS? Just look at the maximum possible sentence for his crimes to see how menial the case is. He does not deserve half of what hes lost for this case.
You people who are saying that Vick should hang or lose his endorsements deals before he is even convicted are VILE CREATURES. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty. What if someone is trying to set this man up for a fall. You people obviously do not know this as well as myself. Did we even learn anything from the Duke situaton?. I am sure many of you figured they we're innocent to begin with anyways. You people disgust me. There are no reasoning to you. Yeah Vick is a thug, but he has as much right to a fair trial as Pope John Paul the II. All the time I thought our country was built on the intracies of freedom, I guess I am sadly mistaken.
I am really tired of hearing the race issue. Race is not the issue it culture. People really need to understand the difference. If you want acceptance in America you to accept American culture. Ask the Irish. You can form your culture and expect to welcomed with open arms. being part of the hip hop culture (especially hard core) singles yourself out. Black men with braids are stereotyped the same that white men with long hair have been sterotyped. White kids that dress in a black with piercings are looked at with as much fear as black kids with white tees. It truly is about culturally choices more than race.
Michael Vick is an idiot. Innocent until proven guilty is for a courtroom, and he is have his day, not the court of public opinion. I, and everyone else are entitled to express our complete outrage against him and the choices he made. The operative word being CHOICE. Those dogs had no choice. I question his humanity. Obviously no compassion or empathy. He is a dangerous man. He belongs in prison.
It's funny how this case has thrown the country into a tizzy. Tell me if there is something more precedent in the news other than an athlete being in the news for doing what people in this country have been doing since the Civil War days. Dog fighting and things of that nature like cock fighting have been going on for centuries. Now all be it being illegal if this was not Mike Vick this would not even be on the news. Who cares if Joe Schmo got arrested for bank rolling a dogfighting ring. But it happened to be Vick. Now all you people are saying that he is getting what he deserves but I am sure that you all have gotten away with something that you should not have gotten away with. So here's hoping that he get a fair trial and that if he is found guilty that he be very remorseful for what he has done. Only God can judge him and all the other fake judges need to look in their own closet and check for skeletons before condemning another. I am neither for nor against Vick but I am against people judging someone before the truth comes out. None of you were there and you can't say what he did or didn't do.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? dont get me wrong i think everyones read the charges against vick, but we have been wrong before. I dont like it but i think its only fair to let them hold vick paid off the field till the justice system plays out.
We, as a culture, have cut athletes far too much slack. In return for "playing" for a living, these jerks are supposed to be role models. It is unsettling that athletes seem to get a pass on domestic abuse but are nailed to the cross for transgressions against animals...Neither should be tolerated. Vick is getting exactly what he deserves. The league and fans should exercise similar sanctions against other criminals playing in the NFL. No one is entitled to a pass just because they can throw a football a mile or run like the wind.
In the several cases of domestic violence and, other crimes of that nature, people have always been quick to cite the violent nature of football and the aggressive mentality needed to succeed in the NFL as an excuse (or st least subconscious cause) for the accused players' behavior...the bottom line is that the game breeds violence in everyone around it, fans thirst for a bone jarring hit as badly as the players do. Is it really such a stretch for people to see the appeal in something as brutal as dog fighting for an NFL player? If that can been seen as a plausible excuse for players that beat theyre wives and kids why cant it be one for a player that has "allegedly" killed dogs?
Furthermore, I would like to add that PETA members are ridiculous, if you have the time and effort to be demonstrating like you do, you should either a) get a job, or b) start fighting for something much more pressing than animal rights, something like...oh i dont know, darfur, the enviornment, or any of the thousands of blatant injustices happening all around the world...AND if your going to fight for an animal you should be focusing you efforts on gorillas, they are on the verge of extinction and still regularly hunted and killed with less than no regard for the impact each dead gorilla has on the species at large...come on people, they are our closest evolutional relative!! your article was spot on. clearly the overwhelming reaction to this situation appears to be "rape at will, just don't harm the puppy"
Domestic violence typically takes two to tango and the abused have their say in court...not saying its right but it's not 6 years of running a dog fighting operation. Kobe's accuser could have had her day in court had she so desired but, I personally think he got sucker punched. Couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow.
Vick bought the property, built the facilities and funded the dog fighting operation for 6 years. Those dogs never had a chance at a decent life. THAT'S what everyoone is upset about and why his sponsors have dropped him. I wish I had a nickel for every person who uses the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" who has no idea what it means.
The consitution can not tell you to presume someone innocent in your personal life. The full phrase is "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law". If you are selected for the jury, you have an obligation to assume Vick's innocence until all of the facts are displayed and witnesses interview. Outside the courtroom you are entitled to have an opinion on his guilt or innocence. Your opinion is not right or wrong so long as you can back it up with some facts. If he was in fact fully involved with this should the people who witnessed him there presume he is innocent until proven guilty? No, it would be idiotic. They can be 100% assured of his guilt based on what they know. Just as I am sure he had at least minor knowledge of the happenings on his property. I suspect he had more involvement but I do not know that for a fact. There are many facts in this case that are not being disputed (I will not list them again, see previous posts). I don't know for a fact that Michael Vick ran a dog fighting ring, but based on the indisputable facts I know it occurred on his property and I think it's a stretch that he bought a house for family & friends and had no idea what was going on there. Knowing about it and doing nothing is almost as bad as participating. I would be tremendously happy if people would stop abusing the constitution on this board, I fear this will never happen though. Anonymous 8/2 3:49 PM
Yes, everyone has broken the law at some point in their life and gotten away with it. Whether it is speeding or shoplifting when your a teenager it is a crime and should be punished. Are you stating that I can not judge Michael Vick as a person because I drove over the speed limit? Do we just have one category for people who break the law? Speeders, dog fighters, murderers, and rapists are all in the same category? When are reporters going to get enough intelligence to STOP offering their opinions about Vick? At the end of the day, the NFL is better off without him. He is the same guy who made obscene gestures to his home fans last year. He is the same guy who was busted trying to hide marijuana in a water bottle in the Miami airport. ALL of his actions indicate he does not deserve the PRIVILEGE of playing in the NFL. Moreover, the guy never has been and never will be a great QB. He can run and that is it. Move on to another story.
We breed animals for the purpose of being slaughtered all the time, on an industrial scale. How else would you get your fried chicken, ham,turkey breast or sirloin steaks? So it's not the killing of animals that has caused the outrage it is how and why they were killed. It's ok to kill animals to feed or clothe us. Provided the killing is done in a humane manner. It's not ok to kill animals just because it's fun to kill them or watch them die, and it's not ok to kill animals in an inhumane manner. Vick is accused of killing animals in an inhumane manner for the fun of it, and of watching animals kill eachother for his enjoyment, and of wagering money on the outcome of all this.
It's also what animals were killed. Not sure if Vick would have had the same outcry over being involved in fighting chickens against eachother with steel spikes strapped to their legs.
What don't people understand? These companys gave Mike money so their product would be associated with a winner. It was all PR. So now being associated with Mike brings ridicule and outrage. It is the publics perception that gave it to him. Now it takes it away. As far as Madison Ave goes, "Image is Everything".
Chris sez: "these dogs were born into a life destined for death." Huh? So it's the dogs' fault? Please.
Let's be clear. Any analogy other than Kobe Bryant is inaccurate. Little et al didn't have a slew of multi-million dollar endorsements as did Vick. Kobe was probably given a pass not because his alleged crime was against a woman but because until that time Bryant was by all appearances a model citizen. Vick's federal dogfighting charges however are the latest in a slew of alleged criminal behavior. Vick's interest in pit bull "breeding" has been known since before he signed his rookie contract. As a part of an alleged illegal interstate gambling ring this alone casts doubt on Vick's character, sportsmanship and possibly his on-field performance. Whether or not you believe Bryant's side of the story (and I don't), this one disturbing incident does not have the same impact on his career on-field performance as Vick's alleged actions would. As for various posters' intimations of corporate "Amerikkka's" racism, if they were racist they wouldn't be paying these Afro-American & Latino athletes trucks full of $$$. Note that the NFL has not yet suspended Vick for the regular season. Some of his corporate sponsors have thus far suspended rather than ended their contracts with Vick (the trading card cos. were in a bind as their product runs start before pre-season). Yes, Vick is innocent until proven guilty but the Feds have a 95%+conviction rate. Plus he's already been convicted in the court of public opinion and public opinion is crucial to corporate America's bottom line. You can't blame them for distancing themselves from Vick. You're kidding yourselves and/or would be unemployed if you say that you wouldn't take the exact same measures if you were in Reebok's shoes. AF Mike Vick has 2 simple choices:
1. Admit he made a mistake, plead guilty and return to the NFL once he has paid the fine/time he will serve. 2. Fight it in court, spend 10 million of his money, lose and go to jail longer and never get back to the NFL. There is just no other option, more evidence keeps coming in, and its all bad, and getting worse. Thats it. 2 Choices. Finally! A voice of reason.
The NFL players are shameless, supporting Vick like they are. Seems they must be feeling a little guilty about the bad things they do too ?
Sad truth is, if he was concentrating on football instead of dog fighting, the Falcons might have been contenders. now they are just losers. Duh... I think he might be the first athelete with a Federal Indictment. Might be why?
People. It is not about who's lives are more important humans or dogs. Dogs are pets, beloved by thousand of boys and girls. Try explaining to a eight year old boy why the football player killed his dogs for fun. See how that makes him feel about his sneakers and cards with the players name on them. Vick is being roasted due to the spot many dogs hold in the American family it closer to a son or daughter than livestock.
If Vick does get convicted and serves time he'll probably be in his mid-thirties when he gets out. He'll be 5 or more years removed from football. That's why he'll fight this 'til the end hoping to get off or have his punishment reduced by a technicality.
AF I'm sure if you, Pete, (or anyone else in the REAL WORLD) were involved and accused of the same activities of Mr. Mike Vick, SI.com (or your employer) would most likely have fired you by now. So why should it be different for Vick? Because he plays a big time sport, he's famous; he's black and/or rich? He put himself in this position by his choices and I really can't feel sorry for him if he loses a few more million dollar endorsement deals. BOO-HOO!
Here I'll make it simple for the ignoramuses out there:
First, it's a felony...that's a big one! Two, it's a felony...no disputing that one. Three, it's a felony...have I made my point yet? No matter what you think of dogs or Vick, you can't argue that it will always be a felony crime!! Stop arguing that they are just dogs. According to the LAW that is not a defense. I'm not saying he is guilty or not simply that those saying they are just dogs have no leg to stand on...but I do have a dog that will gladly pee on your leg!! It's amazing when you really think about all of the careers that have been ruined because of a lack of self control with money one never had before signing on with a professional sports team. Maybe those million dollar contracts aren't all they're cracked up to be.
There are many interesting comments. My feeling is that we the public and the media have created the monster that thrives in our society. The media, whether print or broadcast, have identified what's news. We the people buy it. We read it, buy the jerseys, we attend the games, etc. I love athletics but I do remember when you could go to a college basketball game and it would be over in 100 minutes. A football game, about what two hours? What has made the games so much longer? Care to take a guess?
People find it very easy to be critical but it all starts at home. We spend so much time cheering on our team we don't cheer on our children. Atletics are just one avenue of expression, the arts, medicine and other pursuits are more than worthy endeavors. There are no right things to say, there are no wrong things to say. I just feel choose to watch the game and ignore the hype. Sports are great. We the people have ruined them. "Smart alec" is right -- the problem isn't that Michael Vick is being dropped by corporate America like a hot potato -- the problem is that these companies didn't drop Kobe Bryant and the others for their behaviour. They do not need to be convicted of a crime first in order to be dropped by a corporate sponsor -- they should be dropped whenever they start to act a fool! It was digusting to see someone who was accused of rape being wildly cheered whenever he appeared to play at the Staples Center for the Lakers. It is the corporate sponsors who made the decisions that seem to indicate that cruelty to dogs is more serious than violence against human beings. They did it because they thought that they could get away with it. Morality and "right vs. wrong" has nothing to do with it.
FINALLY! Someone has finally brought up the case of Leonard Little. For years I've been wondering why Little was still in the league and why there was no public outrage over his actions, especially after he got nailed for ANOTHER DUI after he had already killed the woman. But there was no outrage, except from the victim's husband. How sad.
What everyone is missing is that woman who get abused by their NFL husbonds do NOT have to be in that situation. They are the stupid ones that marry and live with these ticking time bombs.
The dogs had no choice. They cannot choose for themselves. They are completely dependent on their master. And what gets them even more sympathy is that dogs and animals never cry or bitch about their situation like humans. They do what their told and still love their master. When this trust and unconditional love is betrayed with this type of treatment. This evokes more sympathy than many crimes against humans The Feds...Please! Everyones a hypocrite. How quick we forget Katrina. It's the corporations the killing sports in America. I'm boycotting Nike, Reebock and the NFL this year.
It's funny how people are so sympathetic to celebrities while the no-names get crucified. That fact that he even was associated by this shows what type of person he is. All these millions of dollars in contracts, and he is betting on dog fights? That is why Corporate America is reacting this way. Public image is everything and Vick is a killer of that. Broen laws should not be looked past, even for celebrities.
peta are hipocrites who are killing dogs so that they control population of dogs, what vick did was wrong but does it warrant him not being able to make a living .our president have lied to the country about weapon of mass destruction sending soldier to a place where chaous and confusion control and not once have the federal government attempted to investigate him. we as a country worry and concern ourself with meaningless issues
I agree with your article. It is interesting how people convict individuals before knowing all of the facts. Granted it looks really bad, but for me I can't help but wonder if the response is racially motivated.
Is Rich really that stupid to make that comment? You must be a liberal right? How do you compare a human life to a dogs life? All the left wing groups like PETA have one agenda and thats to be in the spotlight. If this was your average joe and no media coverage they would not really care. Millions of animals are killed in the US every year, just because they are dogs makes Vick the devil if he did do these things? It's ok for people to hunt. Are people who work in slaughterhouses the devil too? Do you think that cow or pig feel any less pain than a dog does? Im sure most of us would never eat meat again if we went to a slaughterhouse and watched what happened. It's nice to know the feds can spend all this money and manpower on catching Vick doing something wrong but murders and rapist get away all the time. I live in VA so it's great to know how much of my tax money is going to go to this trial and all the security needed because it is Michael Vick. This story hits the nail on the head, people want to crucify Vick for fighting dogs but turn their head at all the other serious crimes that go on. And Rich drinking is a disease? Well him getting into his car and driving was his choice don't you think? Little should be in prison for murder. The reaction the public has had is no suprise, many in this country don't know whats important anymore, they are more interested in saving a tree than a human life. Next thing you know Hillary Clinton might be the president, now that would be a crime...
Agree with you sir 100%
Thanks for the courage to speak out ! Gene Loehrer I couldn't agree more with you, Jim W. I'm not just a little bit embarassed that I had to look up The Bill of Rights. The 6th Ammendment concerns a citizen's right to fair trial: "n all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense."
Michael Vick certainly is not bereft of resources, and he can afford defense attorneys. If he was smart, he would retain a public relations firm to try and fix what's left of the general public's impression of him. If he is found guilty, he will more than likely file an appeal under the assumption that he could prove his innocence. While this may be possible in any case, it would surely further ruin his image in the world's perception of him. I may be a football fan, but I guarantee you this much - A diehard Arsenal or Manchester United supporter has a different perception of him than we do. They will hopefully see this case outside any cultural references and look at the pertinent facts. The key words here are "pertinent" and "facts." Not allegations, not conspiracy theories, and not the moronic rantings of the uninformed. On a related note, unless you were following the Tour de France for a while, the names Alexandre Vinokourov and Michael Rasmussen won't mean a whole lot to you. You may not be inclined to read up on the history of the Tour de France, the widespdread doping scandals, or any other story outside of anything purporting to be a factual concise accounting of the story. For Michael Vick, if he's found guilty, the longer he's in the public eye and does NOT profess a desire to make ammends will only make him appear even more morally repugnant and unequivocably deserving of the world's hatred. The most important and cherished of our Constitutional rights is the 1st Ammendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." At any flashpoint issue like Michael Vick's criminal indictment or a Ku Klux Klan rally or even protests outside an abortion clinic, there are going to be passionately dedicated people. Usually they're going to be blinded by their passion and will not be able to see reason or entertain a perspective different than theirs. While this is a personal issue of freedom, I would hope to be mature enough to entertain perspectives other than mine, If anybody can rationally, logically, and intelligently defend what he has done, I would love to know. Didn't a reporter in Pittsburgh just get in trouble for making the same sort of comparison (Vick's alleged actions against dogs versus the way people react to the crime of rape)?
http://cbs3.com/topstories/local_story_213143438.html I would like to do an example!
I work in a company that develops medical devices, as every company in our field we do our tests on animals (even dogs) and then we eutanize them. this is legal and common practice for the simple reason that we cannot try prototypes on humans. would you lend me your mother for trying an experimental new heart stent? would you be happy (apart the fact that is really illegal) that I use patients to test experimental devices? i can assure you that they won't suffer when we eutanize them. Here, with the obvious distinguo, it's the same situation, as bad as they are, and rightly so, crimes against animals are not in the same league as crimes against animals, we simply don't belong in the same category, otherwise we would eat burgers made out of people......(and in china they do eat dogs.....) ciao, Ale If what Vick has done pales in comparison to the major issues in this country, than neither do the comments by Imus or John Rocker. You can't have it both ways, guys.
I totally agree with your article but this tells you how society is. People are more concerned about dogs than people. And no if he was accused of the same thing with a human, people would probably say that "victim" is just looking for money. Where are the dog lovers when predators molest children? When the predators are out of jail in 3 months? I don't agree with people abusing any animals which includes Deer, Ducks, and all the other "Legal" inhumane things that America allows people to do to animals. Let the man have his day in court...STOP CONVICTING HIM WHEN YOU DO KNOW FOR A FACT HE DID IT.
If Vick did what he's accused of it's real sick and he needs mental help. With that said it is getting blown out of proportion, not the public outrage but the ammount of media coverage it's getting. What about the war? All the troubles in Africa? Last month it was Paris Hilton and Linsay Lohan's rich girls gone retarded jail/rehab stints all the news channel's had as there hot story now it's all about Vick.
i gotta tell ya, if its true they were stealing peoples dogs from the area and duct taping their mouths then throwing them in the pit for the pitbulls to practice on... and i lived in the area and had lost my dog. Prison would be the least of vicks worries, i shoot both his feet off. he'd be hobbling to trial....
Something is really wrong with you people. You act if you where there to witness Vick killing dogs or Kobe rapping that girl. Excuse my French, but it's a damn shame for you guys to judge people before gathering ALLLLLLL of the facts. Let the courts do its freaking jobs and stop influencing the system just because he is an athlete. 99% of the you up here don't know Vick so don't judge him and say he a thug and other such nonsense. I'm not agreeing dog fighting is right but what happen to be "Innocent until proven guilty"? And since this act is such a problem, how about coming down on the people who does things to other animals. Hunting? Bullfighting? Rooster fighting? Those cowboy sports where they fight and wrestle those pigs (or whatever they are) to the ground? If you are against animal cruelty, use your energy against all animal cruelty and not just against ONE PERSON. Thank you and GOD bless you all.
Yes…it’s no surprise that the Arlie Rufus is going to comment on this terrible incident. After all, if not for the grace of God and some good hearts, Arlie Rufus would not be here to bring attention to those without a voice.
Arlie Rufus is not here to rip Mike Vick apart before his day in court. Despite the dubious way this country’s justice department has been managed for the past few years, Arlie Rufus believes in the system and that all are innocent until proven guilty. Arlie Rufus is here to rip the freaks and psychopaths who revel in the barbaric, so-called “sport” of dog fighting. The events described in the indictment are terrible, as is what Arlie Rufus has discovered about dog fighting – that this “entertainment” is actually about sick, twisted, selfish pleasure, petty bets and chump change “prize” money. In a country where we have an abundance of legal and non-sadistic ways to entertain ourselves, there are some who actually believe the fighting to the death of two terrorized dogs is a premiere form of entertainment. Have these Godless people completely lost touch with their humanity? Have they returned to barbarian days of old when fighting to the death was put in coliseums? Some took a cheap shot at Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia for his speech on the senate floor when he labeled dog fighting barbaric. Those who poked fun at Senator Byrd should also be ashamed of themselves. His term barbaric was on the money! Whoever committed the crimes in Virginia and those engaged in dog fighting are sadistic barbarians who should be strung up in the town square. Let Arlie Rufus make it clear – football, the Falcons and Vick are a favorite of this Atlanta resident. Sundays (and now Monday nights from time to time thanks to the excitement of Mike) are tremendously exciting thanks to seeing Mike and the birds on the field. Arlie Rufus enjoys kicking back on the couch and pulling the Falcons on to victory. But there is now a cloud – a cloud that sickens so many. Arlie Rufus knows with no uncertainty -- all dogs want and need are love and affection – and to be a part of a pack. And in return, these four-legged friends will give the same back. So Arlie Rufus is asking all of you who read this – and I hope that includes Mike Vick – to take this opportunity to bring attention to our four-legged friends. Support your local Humane Society (http://www.hsus.org/) and the no-kill animal shelters in your community. When you are out shopping near a local pet store or grocery store and you see those wonderful volunteers trying to find a home for the beautiful pets on display – considering adopting one. And if you cannot adopt, donate your time or money to help a homeless pet find a home. We (and this includes you Mike Vick and the Falcons) have a rare opportunity to make great strides in the adoption of pets across this country. This issue gives us light to tell the story about the neglected, abandoned and yes, unfortunately, tortured pets. Let’s not waste this opportunity. Instead of protesting at the Falcons and NFL headquarters, use the time to volunteer at an animal shelter. Instead of spending money to buy poster board and markers to make a sign, donate the dollars to a local humane society or animal shelter (email me if you want the names of shelters in your area…it would be my pleasure to assist arlierufus@yahoo.com). And this plea does not go out to just the protestors of Mike Vick, but to his supporters as well. If you have the time and money to hold a sign for hours in front of a headquarters, you have the time and money to help a pet get care and find a home – think about it! We have seen our country go through so much pain in recent years. Some pain that could have been avoided (Iraq) and some that we hope taught us all about humanity (Katrina and the Gulf Coast). We are certain to face more challenges, and yes pain, in the years to come. But let us not inflict upon defenseless animals such a tragic fate. Let us instead show compassion to pets of all kinds and allow them to give all of us the love that fills their hearts. Do not let this opportunity pass. Arlie Rufus www.myspace.com/arlierufus geez to the person that said that little with killing a person while drunk driving isn't as bad as dog fighting is smoking something.
HELLO!!!.. YOU ARE PUTTING THE KILLING OF DOGS AS BEING MORE REPREHENSIBLE THAN THE KILLING AND BEATING OF HUMANS?.. INTERESTING VALUES WE AS A SOCIETY HAVE. The evidence suggests that Michael Vick is simply not bright enough to be the star QB of an NFL team.Whether it's financing an illegal Dogfighting operation or carrying illegal drug containers in his onboard luggage on a commercial flight, it's increasingly obvious Michael Vick isn't the 'sharpest knife in the drawer'.
"Still, it would be better if society's disgust meter reacted this strongly to violent crimes (or alleged crimes) against humans -- especially women -- as it evidently does to crimes against canines."
Perhaps some of that disgust is because animals are incapable of knowing that a human is getting ready to hang, electrocute, or body slam them. Humans can reason with an attacker and think for themselves, animals can't. As a lawyer, it amazes me to see the amount of ignorance and emotion that the public is filled with on this issue; after all Mr. Vicks dog fighting crime is “only” a misdemeanor. As one news report put it, we have reached a point of unmitigated wrongs. That is to say that the public is absolutely unwilling to speak about anything other than total removal of Mr. Vick. What is amazing is that that sort of sentiment has been reserved only for homicides and rapes; and in both cases former athletes (Ray Lewis and Kobe Bryan) were forgiven. Legally, yes Mr. Vick is “innocent” until proven guilty. That means that he is not “not guilty” rather than innocent, but in fact the latter until otherwise proven. When the public begins to reclassify and define the constitutional principles of being innocent until found guilty (as being “not guilty” and never innocent), that is not democratic; such is more in line with a dictatorship. Nonetheless that goes to show that democracy is inherently fragile and we must do all that we can to maintain it. Moreover, all news accounts have (1) ignored the fact that the claims against Mr. Vick are conspiratorial (where the government concedes that Mr. Vick did not actually kill any dogs, but merely participated in the crime of dog fighting) and speak about the allegations as if Mr. Vick “actually,” with his own hands committed these crimes, (2) ignored the other defendants’ culpability, as if Mr. Vick did everything. Finally, it is quite arbitrary to act as if Mr. Vick is the scum of the earth and not worthy of anything (including life), but to be willing to believe anybody, i.e. Mr. Vick’s co-defendants, when they say “I shot the dog on my own, but Mr. Vick initiated my actions four-years previously when he bought the property,” without evaluation and consideration that such persons statements have been “bought and paid for” (it is clear that the alleged cooperating witnesses are persons guilty of dog fighting). Cases without physical evidence that point to one’s guilt, are inherently problematic, because to believe the witness whose cooperation has been “bought and paid for” one must arbitrarily discount the wrongdoing of that person who is equally, if not more so guilty than the person he or she is testifying against. If the said witness was uninterested in the proceedings it would be entirely different, but that is not the case. How do we not know that Mr. Vick’s only crime (entirely moral) is in truth pure stupidity, for being associated with bad people? I for one, without any apprehension, am waiting to actually see the evidence. Even now, with Mr. Tony Taylor’s guilty plea, the evidence against Mr. Vick has changed, as Mr. Taylor avers that Mr. Vick (1) didn’t bet on the dog fights or (2) participate in the execution of the dogs, both which the indictment alleges. But the public ignorant and emotional, has convicted Mr. Vick because of his association (while excusing the person’s associated with Mr. Vick), with total disregard for the actual evidence (which has not been produced); the allegations are enough
So many of you have forgotten that Kobe didn't get a free pass at all endorsement-wise after being charged with rape. Yes, Nike did stand by him. But Kobe did in fact lose some $6 million in annual endorsements when McDonald's, Sprite/Coca Cola, Nutella, Ferrero SpA, etc., dropped him almost immediately after the charges were made public.
Athletes and celebrities do not have a God-given right to be paid millions to endorse products. It is a privilege made possible only when their image positively projects and enhances that of the product being marketed. When Kobe was publicly revealed to be at the very least an adulterer, it should not have been a surprise that McDonald's, Sprite and others weren't comfortable having him pitch their products. One more time: the court of public opinion is not not the court of law. Rightly or wrongly Vick has been convicted in the court of public opinion. Corporate America's bottom line depends on being on the right side of public opinion. This is their duty to their employees, stockholders, families, etc. Thus it should be no surprise that Vick finds his contracts terminated or suspended and his trading cards pulled from production. Vick only has himself to blame. He bought the house. He paid for the operation. No one else involved could have afforded to do so. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost well over $50k per year to run Badz Newz. What kills me is that these guys have their entire post-career life to screw up big, do drugs, etc. Why they can't at least keep it together for 5-10 years. AF Mr. Lawyer,
Yes, dogfighting is a normally misdemeanor. The felony charges include "Conspiracy to travel in interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal fighting venture." The "unlawful activities" are specified as violence and illegal gambling. Vick's underwriting of this endeavor alone would make him an active participant in an illegal interstate gambling ring. Vick appears to have taken a much more active role. While it is unclear whether or not he personally killed any dogs, the indictment clearly states that Vick was present during numerous "testing sessions" in 2002 & 2007. Dogs that failed to perform to the satisfaction of Peace, Phillips, Taylor, and, yes, Vick were sadistically killed on the spot. Vick also was witnessed attending a number of dog fights and personally paying losing purses including $23k cash retrieved in a "book bag" from his car. I could go on. As a lawyer you should recognize that this indictment is meticulously prepared. You should also know that their conviction rate is in excess of 95%. I'm not surprised at all that Taylor's current story doesn't dovetail with the DOJ's. Being the first to flip, it wouldn't surprise Taylor if he's still trying to protect Vick at some extent. I expect Taylor's story to change when it becomes clear that any plea agreement goes out the window and additional charges may be pending if he perjures himself. AF This is a simple matter of who gets pissed off by the action. Little pissed off MADD, Kobe pissed off women's rights people, Vick pissed off dog lovers. Of the three, there are a ton more dog lovers than the other two, thus Vick is that much more of a PR liability for a company. Ray Lewis just killed two people at a nightclub in Atlanta, who cares about those people?
I'm not trying to be insensitive, just pointing out that the average American is more likely to be super pissed off about dog killing/torture (rarely on the news, and everyone has a dog) than drunk driving (happens everyday), ghetto killings (ditto) and rape accusations (ditto, not to mention that thanks to Nifong and Precious, rape victims are now presumed liars until proven otherwise)  |
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