In fairness to the Florida Gators it should be pointed out that many schools are currently having the same 'off field' problems with their athletes... USC, Univ of South Carolina, Tennessee, to name just a few.

It seems to be a problem of 'youth' as well as lack of previous guidence by their parents, teachers, or high school coaches. Most all of us see these mis-guided young men every day.
Dave Fanelli, Rancho Mirage, Ca.

Bravo Stewart! Living in Florida, it gets tiring to watch the press here continuely sweep UF dirt under the rug (UF has the only journalism program among FSU, UM and UF).

James Faber, Tampa, FL

Let's also point out that the State Attorney in Gainesville is a UF Alum and numerous incidents with their players have been dismissed or plead down much lesser offenses. Case in point the guy who fired a gun in the air during a fight had it dropped from a felony to a misdemeanor and you know he'll be back.

@robert:

Oh please. While I don't know specific cases of UF players getting special treatment, you act like FSU and Miami players don't get special treatment. I would invite you or Tom to check out UM and FSU player problems with the law. Then check out UF's.

Why can’t we just acknowledge the elephant in the room? It’s black culture that causes most of these problems.

UF has a long history of thugish behavior that has been underreported due to the presence of the only journalism school among the big three. Also, they have a very, shall we say, good old boy type district attorney that has protected that program for years while its members sling crap at Miami and FSU. They also have the distinction of holding the most NCAA violations among the big three. While Spurrier inspired negative press for FSU for "free shoes," his title winning players were driving agent supplied Mercedes.

Adam, robert's comments don't even mention Miami or FSU, so stop reading words that aren't there. And no, desert dave, not "in fairness." Florida and other SEC fans feel they're owed notoriety for having the toughest schedules and the best teams. Well, be careful what you wish for. One can't ignore that over the last 3 months the SEC also dominates headlines when it comes to stabbings, dismissals, drug use, academic ineligibility, and weapons charges. Even LSU's head coach has gotten into the action with his unsportsmanlike mouth.

Though I knew Florida has had some incidents and dismissals, I was surprised by how many this article reports! Remarkable. Go Buckeyes!

Umm, Adam, the fact of the matter is that FSU and UM have had peaceful off seasons. So UFs problems look pretty shady right now. So your attempt to drag them down to the Gators level kinda seems silly. Enjoy your championships while they last, because when they're gone Urbie is gonna look even worse for allowing this crap. At least now, the Gators are just following a time honored SEC tradition, whatever it takes to win. Stop winning tho, and the vultures will circle.
And Daivd- take your racist diatribe elsewhere.

When Miami and FSU were winning titles and their players were in the spotlight they had lots of bad publicity. So have USC, OSU, Texas and others. I suspect that the ego trip of a title, plus the added glare of the lights combine to bring out the worst in a few cases. Consider Clarett and OSU.
Charles Mitchell, Las Vegas, NM

Sure UF has had some some bad press this off season..the eyes of the country are are them as national champs. Lets face it, compared to UM on the field brawl last year and the fact the if the Air Force One went down outside of the FSU campus no one would be there to report it... UF's problems are a part of a growing problem in NCAA football. It is the same menatlity that is killing the NFL right now.

First of all, the DA in Gainesville is a widely respected guy who would never sacrifice his ethical standing to let a few football players off the hook.

Secondly, I seem to remember "St. Bobby" brushing a few things under the carpet, i.e. Janikowski's numerous bar fights and the phony "international player" logic he used to allow him to play in the bowl game. And what about the guy that he suspended from the football team for the spring semester? I bet that taught him a lesson! As for the guy (Ronnie Wilson) firing the gun in the air, he's been kicked off the team for a year, and will have to work hard to even make it back. Otherwise, these incidents are minor and occur everywhere. Urban has responded to each situation appropriately. Unfortunately for FSU and UM, they've fallen so far off the national radar that nothing they do merits any attention.

And Steve, I think that, given Maurice Clarett situation, Buckeye fans should refrain from commenting on other programs' discipline problems.

UF players get special treatment? LOL!!! From whom? UF has an independent committee that decides punishments for players, not the head coach. At fsu and miami, the players are always committing crimes and nothing ever happens.

UF will never have a class act program like the University of Michigan. One or two player personnel issues every few years. Urban Cryer needs to spend less time in the media campaigning to play in title games and more time in the clubhouse keeping an eye on his recruits.

With the exception of the kid that fired the gun into the air (he will not be back by the way), these are typical off season issues for most programs. I think it mainly has to do with the lack of leadership on this team (10 seniors for '07). The high exposure of these incidents is mainly a result of the recent success in b-ball and f-ball.

David said...
Why can’t we just acknowledge the elephant in the room? It’s black culture that causes most of these problems.

4:18 PM

Wow. As a black man I was intrigued by your comment. I was unaware that "black culture" was the source for Rhett Bomar, J.D. Quinn, Christian Peter and many others. I am in no way trying to absolve the black athletes that violate laws, but the real culprit is a variety of things. "Hip-hop culture" plays a part, one parent households, declining moral standards in our society & enablers. The one group that doesn't get it's fair share of blame are enablers. Michael Vick is partly in trouble now because Arthur Blank & the Falcons brass enabled him by always cleaning up his messes. Now most enablers aren't part of "black culture." They are in fact older white males that "fix" problems to keep talented black athletes on the field. Now the "hip-hop" culture plays a huge role, but I wouldn't limit it to just black people, although it is predominantly black. So I will agree that there are a large number of blacks involved in these incidents, but a blanket statement, such as yours David, is ignorant and not very intelligent.

As a Gator fan, I was somewhat disappointed and embarrassed by the number of off-field incidents this past off-season. While most are very minor, that is still not a reason to justify or excuse their existence.
That being said, the big difference between Florida and their 2 chief in-state rivals is in how they handle such student-athletes. The bogus comments by some, seemingly ignore history in this regard. Under Booby Bowden, Florida State has the absolute worst record imaginable in this area.
In fairness, Miami has addressed that very issue and the days of their proud disregard for authority is mostly in the past. All three of these institutions, as well as all the others in the Country will have to deal with problem student-athletes at times. The question is how?

Florida has rightfully earned the reputation of being tough but fair. Some athletes have received second chances for sure, but what isn't mentioned here is that such players are on an extremely short leash.
As for Meyer and Florida in general, we have built a reputation for holding people accountable. The poster who suggested Meyer's loose attitude because of second chances missed the boat a bit. The player in question was a Utah Ute who had gotten in trouble for a couple of DUI arrests prior to when Meyer arrived. In fact the final incident happened prior to Mayer's arrival. It would have been easy for him to boot the guy off the team, but in talking to him privately he saw something, and made a deal. Obviously staying out of trouble was a mandatory component. But the player was not allowed to drink, even though he was 21 at the time. He also had to call Urban's cell phone from his own home telephone number every weeknight at 10pm. As it worked out, the student-athlete graduated with a degree in Criminal Justice and credits Urban and Shelley Meyer for working with him and for believing in him enough to give him another chance. He also claims to have given up drinking entirely. There is a method to his madness and to imply Meyer's behavior to be a negative is unfounded. Is he perfect? No. But with regard to discipline, he takes it far more seriously than almost any other coach out there.

Along similar thinking, I credit Randy Shannon for many of the changes he has made at Miami. I think the unity drawn from removing player's names from their jersies is a positive step. His insistence that all freshmen and sophomores live on campus is also a smart move, and one which will doubtlessly encourage those most at risk to behave in a more positive fashion.

It is just too bad that the same cannot be said of that school "out west."

(That is FSU, for you outsiders.)

c.p. you are still bitter about having to watch us annihilate the team that beat you. It is so sad. Remember, you gave up something like 540 yards to OSU. We gave up 82.

One of the things that I like most about Urban Meyer for his first two seasons was the lack of "police blotter" stories. It was refreshing when compared to the Spurrier and Zook eras. This offseason has been rampant with arrests. I am hoping this is just a statistical outlier and future offseasons will be like the first two.

One of the things that I like most about Urban Meyer for his first two seasons was the lack of "police blotter" stories. It was refreshing when compared to the Spurrier and Zook eras. This offseason has been rampant with arrests. I am hoping this is just a statistical outlier and future offseasons will be like the first two.

A lot of it is jealousy. UF steps on OSU and the Big Ten commissioner says that SEC schools have lower academic standards. This is while OSU has a worse record than most SEC schools. Meyer is criticized for talking a recruit away from a previous commitment at the same time USC is doing it to LSU. If you can't beat a team on the field find some other reason to step on them. It took a while for many OSU fans to regain the power of speech and what I often hear leaves much to be desired.
Charles Mitchell, Las Vegas, NM

HiFiGator: I'm not bitter. I'm certainly not happy UF beat OSU, but I was making the same comments about Urban Cryer before they beat OSU. Note how I didn't say UF wasn't a good team. They're just not a class act like U of Michigan. U. Cryer spends too much time in the media politiking and recruiting and too little time watching over his players. This man will sacrifice all principles to get the "W". And lets not forget Gator fans, Urban Cryer has a clause in his contract that he may leave for ONLY one school. What school? That's right. U of Michigan. HE negotiated for it. We'll never take him after Univ of Flarresta.

The guy who fired the gun in the air is already taking steps to get back on the team!!!

If I did that I would be in jail for 5 years!

Yeah keep trying to say the State's Attorney or Meyer isn't biased. You're way off base and have no idea what you are talking about. The kool-aid out of Gainesville obviously is cheaper than the "GatorAid"

Amen CP well said.

Michigan - A class act? Re-read the comments of Mighigan fans after they slipped to number three in the BCS voting. As I recall the Michigan response was "We was robbed. Sob. We only got beat by OSU by 3 points. Sob, sob. Florida was beaten by Auburn. Sob, sob, sob." Michigan's claim to fame last season was a victory over the unofficial Commander-in-Chief's trophy winner, Notre Dame. That's hardly anything to brag about. Add to that the only good Big Ten victory was OSU over a Texas program having an off year and one can see why their elite schools were stepped on in the bowls.
Charles Mitchell, Las Vegas, NM

I don't want to hear anything from the fsu fans about the Gators lack of discipline. Your program got real lucky you did not get hit with sanctions after that b.s. gambling by your equipment staff...and your qb stealing checks. Bottom line: fsu is a second rate program to UF...always has been and always will be when it comes to integrity. Keep talking trash and we will keep dominating your pathetic excuse for a team.

Charles, next time try to answer the argument that was presented. I said "Michigan is a class act. Florida is not." You said: "Darrr.... Florida have a good team. Michigan lose bowl game. Darr...." We're talking about CLASS, not WINS dufus.

C.P. - Here is a link to the copy of Coach Meyer's contract. Please find the clause that allows him to go to Michigan.

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/graphics/coaches_contracts/pdfs/florida_fb.pdf

Search for the word Michigan. Tell me what you find. I think you may be confusing him with Michigan alum, Les Miles.

9 arrests in an off-season. Nice integrity!

1 National Championship on a fluke and lucky break to even be in the game. UF has been playing football for what 40 more years than FSU? What's the championship count? 1 to what?

Perhaps you should spend more time trimming your mullet and buying shorts that don't have any denim in them.

The notion of the Gators taking the high road on issues of discipline is really hilarious. Uh, yeah, y'all're saints. And Bobby is obviously evil. Thats why our marquee recruit (Rolle) from last year has a 4.0 GPA, while UF's big recruit (Harvin) was banned from high school sports. Great values there guys.

Integrity...Before everyone keeps talking about Florida's infractions, maybe people should look at the list of schools with the most

https://web1.ncaa.org/pdf/convert?pdfurl=http://goomer.ncaa.org:2020/wdbctx/lsdbi/lsdbi.lsdbi_mi_rpts.mostinfractionsrpt

Hey robert, if you were taught to read and write at FSU, you will notice that Florida has far fewer.

Hey adam, Rolle also said he chose FSU over UF for their med school. 1. UF has a better med school and 2. if you believe he chose a school based on their med school you are retarded.

Don't come at us with this marijuana possession nonsense. Football players smoking up now and then isn't the sign of a program gone south.

And I know for a fact that Stewart "Coral Reefer" Mandel took a huge hit from Gary Danielson's 4 chambered bong at the LaQuinta Inn during SEC Media days. I've got the photos somewhere.

Robert! Finally, we found a UF fan w/ a brain. My bad: I confused Meyer's old Utah contract where he was permitted to leave to coach UM, ND, and OSU. Fact is: your coach didn't include Florida in his top 3.

But I'm glad you sent the link. Check out page 11, Section 8, entitled "Standards." Part B discusses the responsibility of a head coach to exercise "due care" to ensure his players are complying with the law. He also has a duty to report violations to the Athletic Director. Is 9 arrests exercising due care? How many other violations did he know about and fail to report? This is along the lines of Stew's points.

Also, Part A says he shall perform his duties "with high moral, ethical and academic standards." His laissez fair approach to addressing problems is at least questionable. Don't the highest standards demand bold proclamations instead of these weak excuses and failure to address the thuggery of his program?

What a jerk. Avery just died less than a month ago, and that idiot is gonna bring him up as he relates to the program? What a classless comment. And to you Mr. Mandel, it's borderline classless to even bring him up in an article about disciplinary issues. You'd think dying would release someone from having their dirty laundry aired, but I guess not.

C. P. - I did read your post about Michigan being a class act, and if you read mine I responded to the class most Michigan fans showed when they slipped to number 3 in the voting. But class is a relative thing and if you wish to call the crying from Michigan a showing of class you are entitled to set your own standards. You speak of victories and that is the sad issue before us. A team that goes undefeated with no wins against a Top 25 team when they played is going to be ranked higher than a team that plays three or four bonafide Top 25 teams and loses two of those games while going undefeated the remainder of the season. Victories, as Lombardi said, are the only thing. Hawaii & Boise state have only each other and Washington standing between them and a BCS bid. Even the loser of their match will cry for a BCS bowl with only that defeat. Don't talk to me about emphasizing victories. Strength of schedule is no longer a politically correct subject.
Charles Mitchell, Las Vegas, NM

C.P. - I have a quick question...Do Michigan's high standards of integrity and ethics carry over to the basketball court? I don't know much about Michigan, can you please enlighten me? I mean, I know the University of Michigan is a "class act." Especially when it comes to admissions policies...

Mich: Yeah, bringing up a basketball program that suffered trouble years ago, webber as far back as 1990, i believe. That's cleaned up b/c the program took leadership and cleaned house. Unfortunately, it's taken years to get back to success but we're finally getting some good recruits and are above .500. Schools are afraid to clean up.

C.J. - I don't think Tractor Traylor played there in 1990 or maybe I'm wrong?

I think that has a lot to do with Urban Meyer. A lot of his character flaws are shining through into the players he is recruiting. Meyer goes out of his way to bash other rival programs such as the case of bashing LSU's academics to a recruit. Meyer also in his desperation to field a winner has gone after recruits with questionable backgrounds. Case in point his recruit from Lakeland, who's name escapes me at the moment, publicly bragging about accepting money from fans. Now I know Bobby Bowden has had his run ins with player misbehavior but the glaring difference is Bobby is willing to kick marquee names off his program. I just don't see Urban Meyer dismissing a Fred Rouse or Randy Moss.

Mitch, retarded is a fairly poor insult. I believe it is considered insensitive to the mentally challenged. Guess your big UF education didn't teach you any stronger words. But to address your point, no I don't believe Rolle chose FSU solely for the medical school. He chose FSU because Bobby is good guy. Why did Harvin chose UF? Maybe cause he knew he could get away with whatever he wants.

Chris are you talking about when Bowden kicked Laveranues Coles off the team and not Peter Warrick? I wonder if that was because Peter Warrick was a more important player? Maybe you should ask Coles what he thinks about Bobby's discipline policy and its hypocricy.

Coles was already on his second or third chance. He was kicked off the team because of the prior trouble, and Dillards was the last strike. Pete Warrick, on the other hand, had never been in serious trouble, and was therefore punished less severely. What exactly is hypocritical about that?

robert - i believe it's gators with two national titles and fsu with two national titles. all this other osu/michigan stuff is hilarious. i would be annoyed as well with florida, especially if rooted for osu - i mean two big losses in one year. wow. and as for michigan, nice game in the rose bowl, you really showed your mettle.

Yeah, Bobby "Pray for a misdemeanor" Bowden is the model of integrity. You don't think Meyer would release someone like Rolle or Moss? What about Marcus Thomas? Was he not released in the middle of last season?

I find it amazing fans of a program like FSU's (Dilliard's, AJ Nicholson etc etc) can actually accuse UF of lawlessness with a straight face. Half of these offenses are posession of marijuana. Taking off a parking boot? Are you kidding me? Yeah, real outlaws in Gainesville.

Hey adam, I think Peter Warrick was charged in 1998 with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, both misdemeanors, for a confrontation in the parking lot of a Tampa fast-food restaurant. The charges were eventually dropped. That would have happened before the Dillards incident. That would mean he had been in trouble before.

Marcus "stoner" Thomas failed half a dozen drug tests, and was still allowed to play half the season! Yeah, great example of Urbie's disciplinary decisions.
In the case of both examples you list (Dillards and AJ) all the players were punished. No one here said the Noles haven't had trouble. We're just saying Urbie only pays lip service to discipline.

Lots of topics to discuss here. ; )

First let's talk about "selective memory". On March 21st 2 Michigan football players were charged with assault for beating up another Michigan student. Still want to take the high moral ground and talk about class CP?

Myron Rolle is the exception to the general rule of football academics at FSU. Instead of using Percy Harvin as your prime UF example how about Tim Tebow? Want to compare character with him? He was a freshman too just like Rolle, Dean's List and All-Freshman SEC Academic Honor Roll. As for character it's hard to compare anyone to Tebow who spends part of his summers doing missionary work with the poor in the Phillipines. ; )

Instead of Rolle vs. Tebow lets talk about football team versus football team. Florida got it's whole recruiting class into school. For the second year in a row. Florida's football team had it's highest cumulative GPA since they started recording it. Every one of Florida's seniors graduated and every junior who went pro early was either on track or ahead of schedule to graduate. Still wanna play Nolies?

The truth be known all schools will have discipline problems with their players. You get 100+ young men together and somebody will do something stupid. It's equally stupid, as our friend CP discovered, to throw rocks when you too live in a glass house. What coach can watch 100 or more kids 24 hours a day?

What is important is what the coaches do when a kid makes a mistake. Brandon James has community service at my wife's PICU unit where he shows up with a coach in tow. He says the visits to PICU are "easy" compared to the extra drills he has to do. Ronnie Wilson was kicked off the team. The late Avery Atkins was given an opportunity to stay on the team this year albeit with extremely strict guidelines. Tragically he was not able to meet those guidelines.

Urban Meyer recruits good kids. He holds them accountable for their actions. He is known to take a chance on a kid but when he does it's his terms and if you don't meet them you are gone. As far as I am concerned that is all I can expect out of him or any other coach.

BTW, note that Percy Harvin has been a good student and citizen at Florida. Not a whisper of a problem with him. I guess Ol' Urban must know what he is doing.

I will refrain from taking shots at Michigan and Lloyd Carr because I think Carr is an outstanding coach and person but the only people deserving of the tag "Cryer" are the Wolverine fans whose team just could not measure up. I could hear their whining here in TitleTown. ; )

half a dozen may not be accurate. here is a copy of the UAA's Student-Athlete Drug Policy.

http://gatorzone.com/compliance/pdf/student_athlete/forms/uaa_substance_abuse.pdf

Now if you will scroll to page 5, you will see the penalties and procedures. Those were the guidelines that were followed for the Marcus Thomas situation. Get your facts straight. Now you may go google what happened to Thomas and apply that to the guidelines. You will see that those were followed. Nice try though.

Mich, the charges were dropped. Ergo he had not been in trouble. Y'all got a law school right, you know how this works? Something about innocent until proven, and y'all want him punished for something that was never even prosecuted? (Coles was convicted of misdemeanor possession I believe.)

Just because the charges were dropped doesn't mean he wasn't in trouble. By your logic, then UF hasn't been in as much trouble this offseason. Just because his charges were dropped doesn't mean he "wasn't in trouble."

by the way adam, Coles was charged with hitting his stepmother outside her home. He was suspended for the opener against Texas A&M and later served 150 hours of community service for the misdemeanor battery charge. He also was suspended for the opener for academic reasons. I don't see a misdemeanor possession charge there.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/news/1999/1006/99772.html

Also adam, UF does have a law school. Let me give you a lesson. There is no such thing as "innocent until proven guilty." It is actually "presumed innocent until proven guilty." There is a very big difference between the two. You can check on that if you would like. Many people make that mistake.

My question here is who actually knows the name of the D.A. in Gainesville? Anyone? Second how many of you know what you are talking about? Anyone? Exactly... None of you. I was born and raised in Titletown(thats Gainesville). I have been here through Spurrier, Zook, and Urban. Urban has done a far better job than both of them. So one rough off season but a lot of schools have had the same kind of off season. Most of you come on here and complain because your school can't beat UF and you are looking for anything to make you feel better.

These are kids. The ones who have gotten in trouble aren't even 21. Outside of Ronnie Wilson whats the big deal? People make mistakes. You can't tell me that taking a boot off of a tire is the end of the world. And tell me how many college students haven't smoked weed or been in a fight. College is a time where you make mistakes, you take the time to find yourself, you grow and you learn. Just because they play a sport we shouldn't take that opportunity from them. They are still kids. They are still learning. Bash them if you want but watch your own kids because they may be the ones in trouble one day. Also how can you blame Urban for giving people second chances? If he can do his job as a coach, which extends further than the football field, to help save another athlete from becoming the next Avery Atkins then God Bless him. These kids make a ton of money for so many people but most of those same people don't care what happens to them. I am not saying that they shouldn't be punished for their mistakes but to see how you some of you are acting about how great your school is and how horrible UF is or FSU and UM were thats sad. Why isn't anyone worried about these kids? Do you want to see great talents lost like Mr. Clarett and Mr. Atkins then keep on. But I applaud Urban and any coach who is truly trying to help kids get their life together because even if it is one kid who was saved then they did their job. Stop being so negative thats what is wrong with this world today.

Maurice Clarett was never arrested as a Buckeye. He was cleared by Ohio State and the NCAA of any academic wrongdoing. And Ohio State immediately suspended him after word of his extra benefits was made aware.

Oh yeah, and that was a half-decade ago.

Go Bucks!

My comments earlier are directed more towards Urban Meyer then the players themselves. I was a college student not too too long ago and I know how easy it can be to get into trouble even if you are not looking for it. I just really don't have much respect for a coach who uses tactics that, although legal,are not very ethical to try to land a recruit. Bashing a long time rival in my humble opinion is totally unacceptable behavior. I have heard on more then one occasion of Urban Meyer taking that approach. He may be labled and innovator but if he keeps this approach up he is going to lose respect where it matters most, among his peers.

The Gaytors are so full of themselves. They pretend their program is so clean. Their coach blows smoke up their asses, when he talks about recruiting the top 1% of the top 1%.He's a liar and he knows it.He's never been anywhere longer than two years. So what does he really know about integerty? Why does he have an opt out clause for Michigan in his contract? The guy is full of it, the only people that can't see it are the Gaytor fans.

His name is Cervone. And he went to UF law school (not a bad law school). But apparently you can now shoot a gun wherever you want and its a misdemeanor.

Bill - FYI - very well thought out and expressed post.

And since when is possession of an illegal drug not a bad thing? You uf fans are so typical..who cares as long as we win. Its no wonder the SEC hasn't had a year since 1987 that one team hasn't been on probation.

Mich- I therefore presume Pete was innocent. While there is a difference between presumed innocence and demonstrated innocence, in terms of what Bobby can and or should have done about it, not as much.
You are right about Coles though. But since there is no question that his previous transgression was worse than Pete's, you can't really fault Bobby's decision to punish him more severely.

ohio state fans just shut up cause your program is a joke too and all i have to say is 1 name and you know who it is MAURICE CLARETT... ya he was a class act and even after the school let him run wild he wanted to leave after one year... good thing you guys get people with their priorities straight... and jim tressel even helped him so you tell me which coach is worse helping a player get whatever he wants or a coach who does the things to make his program better