SI.com college football writer Stewart Mandel shares his commentary, analysis and random tidbits on the latest developments around the country.
10/14/2007 07:53:00 PM
BCS: It's Beginning to Look a Lot Like '03
Matt Grothe and the Bulls debuted at No. 2 in the BCS Standings.
Normally, the release of the season's first BCS standings officially establishes the first set of "favorites" to reach the national title game. The way this season has transpired so far, however, all Sunday's release probably did was help ensure that No. 1 Ohio State and No. 2 South Florida will be the next titans to fall.
Normally, this is the time when we start crunching numbers and cursing computers, playing out all the possible nightmare scenarios that could emerge as this year's Florida State/Miami/Washington (2000) or USC/Oklahoma/Auburn (2004). Don't even bother this year. Not after six top-five teams and 11 top-10 teams have lost in the past three weeks alone.
With so much volatility already, it would be foolish to assume that the standings come Dec. 2 will remotely resemble those from Oct. 14. Heck, at the current place, there will probably be a radical makeover as soon as next Sunday.
Even after voting USF No. 1 myself, I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the Bulls' run ends as soon as Thursday night at Rutgers. And while there's no obvious equal to the Buckeyes in the Big Ten (which barely even entered a second team -- No. 25 Michigan -- in Sunday's standings), that doesn't mean Ohio State won't eventually suffer its own Oklahoma-Colorado or Cal-Oregon State moment.
Remember when a mediocre Michigan State team stunned the then-No. 1 Buckeyes in Columbus in the BCS' first season (1998)? Guess who comes to town Saturday? (And these Spartans are actually 5-2).
Not that I'm predicting a Michigan State upset. Personally, I'd like to avoid predicting much of anything from here on out because it's become an inherently futile endeavor -- but unfortunately, my bosses won't let me get away with it. Just this afternoon, I was charged with the task of projecting the five BCS bowl matchups for this week's Sports Illustrated. A dart board would have come in handy.
In doing so, I operated under the assumption that there will be no undefeated teams by the end of the regular season (besides perhaps Hawaii). Not only will USF and Ohio State lose at least once, but so, too, will BCS No. 3 Boston College (most likely more than once). No. 8 Arizona State (which hosts both Cal and USC) and No. 13 Kansas (which misses Oklahoma, Texas and Texas Tech, at least until the Big 12 title game) have as good a chance of running the table as any of the higher-ranked undefeated teams, but my faith in them is no stronger than it is the others.
In other words, I'm guessing the two eventual titles participants will be the ones that A) Have already suffered a defeat and B) Are most poised to run the table from here. Who are those teams?
While no season in the BCS era has featured near as many stunning results as this one, I do remember one that played out somewhat similarly: 2003.
The first BCS standings that year came out Oct. 18. Much like this season, only the top three (Oklahoma, Miami and Virginia Tech) and a couple outliers (No. 10 Northern Illinois and No. 14 TCU) remained undefeated. And the two teams that would wind up splitting the national championship, USC and LSU, had already suffered losses and found themselves ranked seventh and 12th, respectively. The Trojans' loss had come Sept. 27 against Cal (in triple overtime), while the Tigers had fallen at home to 3-3 Florida on Oct. 11.
The two teams I pegged for Sports Illustrated fit nearly identical profiles. One is LSU, which, like that year's Tigers, suffered its first loss during the second week of October, and which, like that year's USC team, did so in triple overtime. In a field of flawed contenders, the Tigers are the one team that still inspires the most confidence. I see them catching fire and winning the rest of their regular-season games, starting this week against Auburn. Obviously, whichever East division foe they draw in the SEC title game will be a bear, but LSU ran into a similar scenario in '03, drawing an Atlanta rematch with a 10-2 Georgia team it had beaten in dramatic fashion in Baton Rouge. The Tigers won 34-13.
Meanwhile, my projected opponent for LSU is, like the Tigers themselves that year, a less obvious choice at this stage in the game: No. 10 Oregon. Just like 2003 USC, the Ducks' sole setback thus far came against Cal, also in dramatic fashion, also on the last weekend of September. Just like those Trojans, Oregon features an explosive offense led by a potential Heisman QB (Dennis Dixon) and future pro running back (Jonathan Stewart). Most importantly, its remaining schedule lines up favorably: Limping USC (Oct. 27), torrid but still-unproven ASU (Nov. 3) and resurgent rival Oregon State (Dec. 1) all have to come to Eugene.
As for whether those two will be obvious choices, or whether their selection will come at the expense of a jilted third team -- a la 2003 -- I can't even begin to predict. Maybe it will be an exact Sugar Bowl rematch: LSU-Oklahoma (though I'm pegging the Sooners to lose once more, either at Texas Tech or against sneaky-good Kansas in the Big 12 title game).
Don't bother sending me your doomsday scenarios just yet. If ever there was a season to "wait and see how things play out," this is most definitely it.
Stewart you're a hatin' punk on Ohio State, you're just mad you have missed the mark on them all season long, from your brilliant early season "If Michigan is a bad team, then by extension Ohio State must be as well." Way to go on that one, that Northwestern education is practically paying for itself.
I'm a huge Buckeye fan, and I don't think we've really played anyone yet. I hope we can run the table, but I don't think that would indicate we are one of the two best teams in the country. Personally I was hoping to go undefeated this season and end up in the Rose Bowl. Maybe this will be the year that the BCS get screwed by multiple one loss teams and no clear choice for who should be there.
I'm glad to see you picked the Bulls #1 in the nation. It doesn't surprise me that most folks picked Ohio State, but the way I see it is this: If the team with South Florida's resume were named Florida or Florida State, people would vote that team over an Ohio State team that hasn't played, well, _anybody_ yet.
It may wind out playing out different in weeks to come, but to me, the number one team in the nation right now is the Brahma Bulls.
I think that the idea of LSU making it back into the title game is probubly right on the mark, seeing how powerful they are as a whole and seeing as that, if you're going to lose, you might as well lose early, and in triple-overtime on the road to a good team. Other than that,a dart board would come in handy.....Oregon has a favorable scheduel, but whether OSU wins out or not, they certainly don't deserve to be in the title game. OSU is a great team, but almost every year OSU's most touted opponent is Michigan....and almost every year Michigan has embarressed the Big Ten in it's bowl game. I think that is a pretty straight-forward assessment, and OSU really hasn't proved it wrong. But who knows....they certainly aren't rebuilding as much as we thought they were.
Its a shame in such an awesome year of football the BCS and pre-season polls make everything so screwed up. Good luck with the future polls.
Stewart, what does Michigan have to do to earn back some respect. After the horrible start they have bounced back with 5 straight wins, yet they are only 25th? USC has looked horrible for 3 straight weeks yet they are still a top 12 team. Tell me how this is not biased.
As a staunch supporter of the bowl system, I may finally be getting on board the playoff train. Normally, I subscribe to the "karma will figure it out" method, but this season there is no pleasing anyone.
OSU fans feel disrespected that their team is looked down upon by fans of other teams, while every other major conference with a one loss team (read: SEC) thinks that their schedule is so tough that they actually deserve to be in the NC game despite the loss.
One thing we know is that the system is not perfect, but it seems that the more we try to fix it, the worse it's becoming. I almost like the old system of traditional bowls and argue til you're blue in the face. This notion of "ranking" conference strength and assigning NC implications from that ranking is laughable when ADs across the country make schedules years in advance.
In the absence of a true playoff, I agree with an earlier post of ranking the undefeateds, then the one losses, and so on...it may suck for a traditional powerhouse, but let's face it...is it really any worse than what we've got now?
Stewart, i really wish you had watched Oklahoma's last two games, as they were both wins over ranked teams. In case you haven't noticed, it turns out that Colorado isn't as bad as everyone thought, and this Oklahoma team will only get better as the season goes along. in case you are worried about the defense, they have allowed points because they have played some of the best offenses in the country in Tulsa, Texas, and Missouri. Boomer Sooner!
Way to go Stewart. I'm happy to see someone showing my Ducks some love. The Cal loss was a heartbreaker, but I think this team is much more mature (in large part to the improved maturity of it's leader Dixon), and fully capable of running the table from here.
Any chance a 2-loss team gets in to the title game? I know it may sound crazy, but if one of the 2-loss teams wins out from here, for example Auburn, and everyone else ahead of them looses another game, could they move up to 2nd?
Oh please! Ohio State is not the best team in the nation. OSU would lose to LSU, Florida, Oregon, Cal, Auburn and USC(southern Cal). I have to agree that it is probable that LSU will wind up in the title game I think that they will lose one more game. While I still have hopes that Pete Carroll can right the ship everyone has to admit that the problem USC has is playing up or down to the level of their opponents. If you look at their record against non pac-10 teams they step up their game. So here is to a Trojans vs whoever. USC should be able to run the table. Just watch and see!!
Oh please! Ohio State is not the best team in the nation. OSU would lose to LSU, Florida, Oregon, Cal, Auburn and USC(southern Cal). I have to agree that it is probable that LSU will wind up in the title game I think that they will lose one more game. While I still have hopes that Pete Carroll can right the ship everyone has to admit that the problem USC has is playing up or down to the level of their opponents. If you look at their record against non pac-10 teams they step up their game. So here is to a Trojans vs whoever. USC should be able to run the table. Just watch and see!!
I suppose from your comment that you're an SEC fan. So if some "lifeless computer and mathematics" aren't enough objectivess, I guess you prefer the biasness of the polls? Or better yet, let's just call a mulligen anytime an SEC team loses; that way they all can end up undefeated and we can declare that the NC permanently resides with the whole conference.
Stew: another good analysis (or reasons why you can't) and set of rankings. Pretty close to the computers in the BCS, although you did use some judgment.
To Larry: so far, you are among the 3 OSU (the ohio one) fans that I actually enjoy reading posts from. You are clearly a mind, thoughtful, and a person who wisely refrains from dissing and counsels those who do. I particularly agree with your post about servicemembers posting here from Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere and add my missive to "be safe over there" to them as I have online in many places elsewhere. Good posts, Larry, thank you for them.
To OSU fans: Congratulations on your ranking . . enjoy! I'd really like playoffs, but trust computers more than polls at this point. Right now, if we take polls out and just go by the computers, it is you against ASU in a bowl game (probably a BCS one) since you are tied with them at fifth, and USF and LSU in the title game since they are 1 and 2 respectively. So Stew is actually elevating you . . Stew you Big 10 homer!!! But, as many say . . . too early to be overconfident or sure of anything. I think you have a good team, but will reserve judgment until you play Michigan State, Penn State on the road, and even Michigan on the road. Unlike other LSU fans, I think that is a tough schedule for you right now.
I'd just like my Tigers to win a 3 OT game if needed and be somewhere significant in January . . . and I think they will, but we shall see.
Oh . . and to Netizen . . I thought the WA Huskies had the toughest schedule in the nation? Could be wrong . . oh, wait . . that was based on "preseason rankings" . . . . nevermind.
Give Stew a break. He admits to being unsure. Like last year I think OSU will win out, but I do not think OSU is one of the five best teams. Its opponent is more likely to be OK, LSU, or USC, but not Oregon. USF may squeak thru but again is not one of the five best. USF & OSU, wouldn't that be a crock?
Sas is cool, and one of the few rational, intelligent SEC fans that I've seen. To the rest of the "every conference but the SEC sucks" fans out there...get a clue. You talk a good tank about beating down the Big Ten like the proverbial whipping boy...yet the Big Ten does NOT have a losing record against the SEC the last three years...how you like them apples?
Look - nobody has a clue this year (or most years for that matter) about who the "best team" really is. Geography dictates building teams in all different sorts of manners, and that difference creates matchup problems between some teams.
But ANY fan, be it a Big Ten, Pac-10, SEC, or Big East fan who acts as a fortune teller - i.e. "I guarantee that (insert beloved team) would whip (insert team hated at the moment) doesn't have a clue. That's why they play the games boys. After all, Miami was celebrating "winning" before actually playing the game in 2002, and I think that the Buckeyes were equally as guilty in 2006.
They get no respect-- ASU is the Rodney Dangerfield of this year's season, quietly and confidently amassing a 7-0 record in the most competitive conference going, sitting alone atop said conference while USC, Cal and Oregon have all stumbled.
ASU's pansy schedule is holding them back, I hear. They dispatched both Stanford and Oregon State quite handily-- the mighty Trojans and Bears weren't able to do that, but I hear majestic, top-tier adjectives to describe their short-comings in these two games.
ASU thumped Colorado way back in Week 2, after which I remember reading columns where the poor Buffaloes were the punchline. But after a win over OU in a nail-biter, suddenly they are the second coming of the Almighty.
ASU? Still 7-0. Check out their 2nd-half statistics, and favorable home-heavy schedule-- only Oregon doesn't come to Tempe (not even dignifying that other AZ school).
I agree with you Mandel that LSU will end up back in the title game. LSU is the only team that I feel would be worthy of the number one spot. As for the other team, who knows? I kind of like the Oregon pick but I'm suspicious USC will win out and grab the other spot in the national title game. But this season is further proof that a playoff is needed to decide all of this on the field, not in the polls or by computers.
" Posted: 11:28 PM by Netizen NCAA Toughest Schedule (Cumulative) for Top 5 BCS Teams: OSU 23 LSU 32 SFL 34 BC 51 OU 55""
Were did you find your numbers? According to the Sagarin poll this is how they match up:
strength of schedule rank:
LSU 12 USF 31 OU 67 OSU 73 BC 80
The computer rankings actually have USF and LSU above Ohio State in fact Ohio State is tied for 5th in the computer polls.
As for Ohio State playing someone lets do a quick run down of their schedule eh?
Youngstown State 5-2 (looks impressive until you realize they are I-AA team)
Akron 3-4 (just lost to that powerhouse known as Temple)
Northwestern 4-3 (managed to lose to that other powerhouse known as Duke)
Minnesota 1-6 (provided Northwestern with one of their wins )
Kent State 3-4
So not counting Youngstown State Ohio's opponents have gone a combined 18-23. Yep those are some tough games. Everyone feel free not to take Netizen advice and talk about Ohio States line up of cup cakes as long as you want.
Stew, you are right on the money. A one loss LSU team will sertainly make it to the National Title game. I think OSU, S. Florida, and BC all have a chance to run the table, but I just don't see all three of them doing it. Having said that, a one-loss LSU team who beats #9 VT, #12 S.Carolina, #9 Florida, #18 Auburn, and Alabama and Arkansas teams that will/have been ranked this season, plus a highly ranked voe in the SEC Title game (possibly UK...I really want to see that game, b/c revenge is a dish best served purple and gold!)...with wins against so many high caliber teams and a loss coming to a ranked team on the road in triple OT, I don't see how BC or OSU could beat us out for the National Champ game spot against an unbeaten S. Florida, assuming they all run the table. GEAUX TIGERS!
At the end of the day, here's what I know...my number one team could punch it in from the one yard line first and goal.
So, while I'm not saying that OSU is the best team in the land, I do know that they have won their games so far. You can debate the strength of schedule all you want, but aside from LSU, I have no respect for anyone the SEC has beaten OOC.
Win your games = no crying. Then we aren't even having this discussion.
Oh I see your taking credit for winning games that haven't even been played yet. That makes total sense when trying to defend that Ohio State hasn't played anyone so far this season. I assumed you knew what people are actually talking about when people say that Ohio State hasn't played anyone but apparently that was too much for you.
I will certainly not sit and argue that Kent State is a difficult match-up for any team sitting at the top of the BCS standings. However, if you would like to compare an SEC team that just knocked off “God's gift to college football fans” to a team that might not be as bad as everyone would like to think, I would submit Kentucky's play against the previously mentioned Golden Flashes, and this past weekends match up of Ohio State and their in-state step-child, “Kent read, Kent write, Kent play football, Kent State”. Yes, Kentucky put up more points (8) than the Buckeyes against a shared opponent (and those Buckeyes and their crummy schedule), however, they deemed it necessary to play their starters throughout. The Buckeyes decided that they only needed their starters for 30 minutes (probably could have done less). The Buckeyes chose to retire many starters at half time, while the mighty Kentucky Wildcats found themselves in a 14-14 impasse as the halftime show fired up. The potent Wildcats forged ahead with their number one back 17 times! Ohio State could muster only 4 attempts with numero uno, deciding instead to rush with non-scholarship backs- 11 times!!! “Yardage totals?” you say. Ohio State – 401. Kent State – 223. Kentucky – 484. Kent State – 453. ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? And this POWERFUL University of Kentucky beat “God’s only begotten Son”? I don’t know how you SEC fans go on, having to remedy these kinds of things. UK gives up 20 regulation points to Kent State, at home, and 27 to LSU in the same stadium? UHHHHHHH. At least LSU’s defense trumped Kent State’s by allowing Kentucky only 375(!!!!!!) as compared to 483. How does one sleep at night while faced with such conundrums?
I'm not BLAMMING (idiot) anyone, I'm just asking everyone to take it easy. It's not over until it's over. Let the talking heads look like idiots when things don't go as they say. They're getting paid, we are not.
Stop inferring things I'm not implying. I'm presuming you know the difference.
The purpose of my post was simply to argue that a fair assessment of one's schedule should take into account all 12 games, not 7. On that basis, Ohio State will have played a tougher schedule than any of the remaining BCS Top 5.
I didn't imply they'd win all 12, but clearly you inferred that, which was your mistake not mine.
The only team that would have a better than half chance at being Ohio State is LSU & Florida.
If your defense is not up to it--yes you Cal, USC, Oregon, Oklahoma, BC, and so on, you will find yourself not scoring enough points on one of the very best defenses in the land. Sure the Buckeyes have had a soft schedule (so far) but what have they done? Killed everyone! They have given up less than 50 points all year, and half of those points came on junk scores late after the games were long over. The Buckeyes handled Washington in their place far and away better than USC, yet we read how USC's loss to Stanford was just a "bump" in the road for the unstoppable Trojan juggernaut.
The football media has bought into Pete Carroll love, and a case of over-hyped SEC myth (which the inter-conference stats just to not show...sure the Gators killed the Buckeyes, but anyone notice how Penn State and Wisconsin one the other two Big Ten v SEC match-ups? It was the same with the 'Noles in the 90s.
And South Florida...give me a break. The Big East is as overrated as it was last season. They'll all end up with losses in games where the teams combine for 100 points.
Finally, the media is blind to the fact that Michigan and Penn State are very good football teams. How Michigan is 25 is beyond me. They got upset on day one. And then they hung their heads and got killed by a bona-fide top 5 team. But now their putting the pieces together, and I bet they will be on nine straight wins when Ohio State comes to town. And before all you start calling me out as a Buckeye homer, I'm here to tell you that OSU will lose...at Penn State. The Lions have the defense to hang with anyone and their place is a hornet's nest at night. No one cakewalks there. And guess what? The Buckeyes will still get to the Rose Bowl. Once there, they will wipe the floor with anyone the Pac-10 offers and open next year as the pre-season number one with 18 or 19 starters back from this Buckeye team.
Why argue strength of schedule when half of the games played by all major schools are gimme games? Most schools only schedule one tough opponent per year for non-conference.
Florida- Western Kentucky, Troy, Florida Atlantic, FSU
LSU- Va Tech, Mid Tennessee, Tulane, LA Tech
Oklahoma- North Texas, Miami, Utah State, Tulsa
BC- Army, UMass, Bowling Green, Notre Dame
OSU- Youngstown State, Akron, Washington, Kent State
Most teams only play one hard game per year. The real tricky part, as someone already pointed out, is that they schedule these years in advance. So you can't make sure they are going to be good that year, as all teams have up and down years.
Netizen....your condescending tone smacks of the lost arrogance of the big 10. You can cite all the computers in the world, but the bottom line is, if you honestly believe that your big 10 schedule is even close to what a team like Florida, LSU, kentucky, or even a cal/USC/oregon has to face then you are beyond help. TO DATE...not the future opposition poll that you cited, in the poll that is used by the agreed upon BCS system, Ohio State rightfully has a ranking of 57. LSU-8, Kentucky-6, Oregon-16, even OU is ahead of you at 33. Lets compare the former number 1 team's signature wins with your buckeyes. LSU beat #10 VTech 48-7 #13 Florida 28-24 #8 USCe 28-16 Lost to #7 UK in 3 OT
OSU beat NR Every School in the state of OHIO. NR Washington NR Purdue NR Northwestern NR Purdue NR Minnesota ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Notice a theme here??? Hell, you only have one ranked team in your conference....at number 25, the same team that got waxed by Oregon and Appy. St. If you wanna talk about how good OSU is individually, you MIGHT have a case. But dont come on here spewing BS about OSU having a good schedule.
As an OSU Alum, I can only say that my Bucks are this weeks Pretender to the throne. Sure, I'd love to be proved wrong, but I don't think they've really got the horses this year. And sure, Coach T is a miracle worker but this is one crazy year for college football.
To EVERYONE: Don't look now, but there are STILL 6 or 7 games left to be played by a lot of the Top-15. Do you realize that a 2-loss team grabbing the #2 BCS slot is NOT out of the question. If somebody like Florida ran the table, aided by a couple upsets along the way (very REAL possibilities this year) they would have 2 losses & be the #2 team. Even if USF only loses once, a 2 loss SEC Champ vs. a 1 loss Big East Champ would probably favor UF. And I'm not saying UF is the only team who could have 2 losses. Oklahoma could probably lose again and not be out of it.
It is true that ASU has quietly and confidently amassed a winning record. Had they beaten Cal or Nebraska instead of Oreg St and Stanford there would have been nothing quiet about it. It is easy to quietly build winning records against weaker competition. Speaking of that who does Hawaii play next?
For Netizen - Everyone else is talking about who Ohio St has played. You are the only one talking about who they are going to play. Even some OSU fans are sketicle due to last year's debacle. How could USC and Florida struggle so much in the regular season, then take Michigan and OSU apart like they were AA teams? Michigan played nobody and OSU had one victory over a Texas team that was not up to par. USC & Florida played schedules that were ranked among the toughest in the nation. If overcoming challenges can make us strong where is the opportunity for Big Ten teams to develop? Against Notre Dame?
I am a HUGE Buckeye fan. I thought this was going to be a 2-3 lose season for the Buckeyes, so I am as surprised as anyone that the Buckeyes are at the top.
1) It isnt OSUs fault that the Big Ten is down this year. Everyone has a short term memory, remember 3-4 years ago when the Pac-10 was horrible and everyone was complaining that the only reason USC was winning is cause they played no one.
2)OSU played Texas last two years out of conf. Washington this year. USC (Southern Cal) the next two years, then Miami for 2, then VT for 2 then Oklahoma for 2. This happens to be the one year where we dont have a traditional powerhouse out of conf. (I already have a hotel reserved for OSU at USC 3rd game of the year next year)
3) We have beaten NOBODY! But.... USC, Michigan, Texas, Cal, Oklahoma and Florida have all lost to a NOBODY (unranked). Everyone is saying that OSU hasnt beaten ranked opp, but these teams above have lost to an unranked opp. We are taking care of business and beating the teams we should beat. The other top 5 teams above can not say that.
4) OSU has the #1 ranked defense in the country. Has given up the fewest points (46) in 7 games. We have the #2 ranked rush defense. The #2 ranked pass defense. I dont know if you have ever heard this before but. DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.
5) National respect does not matter, only the BCS final rankings.
P.S. for Netizen - To answer my own question ... While players from other schools are playing a full game, gaining experience and confidence in occasional difficult challenges, you yourself said that OSU starters are sitting on the sidelines not running up the score against weak opponents. Isn't that why OSU will get clobbered again if it runs up against USC or LSU? Can you deny that when LSU took a beating from Florida that it didn't factor into the Kentucky win this weekend?
Desperate for some perspective, any perspective, I asked a five-year-old neighborhood kid how she would rank the college teams. She answered, "Nanna, nanna, boo, boo!" Then, she ran off chortling and giggling like a young hyena on hallucinogens. Good luck, Stewart.
I am sorry, but there is no way Ohio State deserves to be number one. I would love to say ASU should be number one, but that will be determined over the next few weeks when it plays Cal, Oregon and USC.
My only point is if OSU fans think they should be number one then they need to concede that Arizona State has just a much a claim. ASU is 4-0 in a tough Pac 10 this year and has the number one defense in the PAC 10. Look at the schedulets these two have payed and tell me who deserves to be #1. My vote at this time is for South Florida.
I am amazed by the lack of intelligence in the Southeastern Conference fans. I would like to point this out. The preseason polls are the real enemy here. I have watched teams from pretty much every conference and know one thing is certain, everyone has a shot. Hold on SEC fans, I realize you believe your conference is superior to all NCAA schools but, if you take away the preseason polls you are just as average as the next guy. Instead of being so critical watch the games. Ohio State is as good as anyone around. I was shocked LSU couldn't beat a very poor Kentucky defense. I think it would help if the SEC would play the BIG 10 in an SEC/BIG 10 challenge at the end of the season. Match every team and rotate it. Otherwise we will never know which conference is best. Because minus the NC the BIG 10 was 2-1 vs. the SEC in bowl games go figure.
Again the SEC talking all smacks about the conference. Stop making exceptions and grow up...
As I said all year long before their losses that SEC is a strong conference but not as strong as everyone wants to preach...
I hate OSU since I like Michigan more. Heck, I am a MAC fan for a losing team called the Buffalo Bulls and they are winning this year.
1) What I trying to state is all stats do not show any difference between Big Ten and SEC on their wins. As stated before, all conference games have situation where people will knock each other out. So a win is a win no matter what.
I remember arguing with everyone about that last year with the game of the centaury. If you want to argue with quality of conference then the NC should have been Michigan and OSU. Because they were the two best schools after that game and everyone agreed (except the SEC.... Politics are all you guys do like Urban Meyer did for UF).
So to flip flop and make the arguments of the polls that strength of schedule dictates things now seems very ... Hypocritical and inconsistent..
2) Again, I have stated the same thing. You can't use the poll to belittle one conference and strengthen your own... Either you accept the poll ranking as is for you and let be as is for other conferences. So to tell me LSU is Top 5 with SC, Florida, etc. does show their strength but you can't use that basis as your strength without seeing that OSU IS #1 in the poll. In my view, if all these teams were not preseason ranked and ranking starts in the 8th week, you might not see that many SEC teams in the poll. Why? They all started high in the polls and they have lost. It is easier to get back into the polls when you start high and win than it is to start low and win your way up.
3) When look at history for the past 5 years. SEC did not fare well. Just because one team does well does not mean that the whole conference is better. Hint like USC.. What I do see is every time SEC argues to be the best conference, their bowl games show how much they are not as strong as the conference. Using the big bowl games just show the conference powerhouses. But those conference wins are dictated by the mid-tier bowl games. Again, what we see is SEC is slightly a stronger conference but NOT AS STRONG AS YOU KEEP STATING. Let it go and remember that for those SEC fans. Again, you flip-flop your arugments to validate one thing and not the other when the same sources are the same
4) The same pollster rewards losses to top 10 schools when they are clumped with other Top 10 schools losses. Michigan losses to Div 1AA App State (who Michigan loss on a failed field goal and mistakes and App State were DIV 1AA pwoerhouse) gets knocked off the polls. But losses like USC with Stanford (as one example) drops only 8 spots. I do not believe Michigan be out of the Top 25 after their loss but it comes to show that even losses are relative. And if pollsters are going to rank, you have to penalize fairly. USC got lucky in my view. LSU loss (I could accept a 5 Spot but not a 2 like Stewart states). Michigan was the first upset and got hammered. Heck, some pollster voted for Div 1AA for the ranking. It just shows again.. Polls are BIAS.. They are not objective... These are the same "objective" thigns that favored the Big Ten last year and now the SEC this year. So again... It is subjective and do not utilize that arguments on basis of strength...
What I want to see is more OOC games with other power conference. Like all teams must have 3 OOC games against another conference. I do not care if it is a low ranked team or not.. This would shut up all the "I am bigger conference so our teams should be ranked higher". Actions speaks louder than words and show it on the field. Finances prevents it but then again, these conferences enough money to do it. Until then all conferences are created and made the same and teams will succeed on circumstances and situation. Again if LSU and USC were that good, they should not be undefeated... Enough said
At the end, what I see is Michigan could come back and even make it to the NC. Not saying they will but they could.
To whmo do you think BC is going to lose? A solid defense and an offense that can outscore the rest of the schedule looks very good for BC to be undefeated or 1-loss, and to be up to win the ACC. Maybe they aren't the 3rd best team in the nation, its debatable, but losing 2 game would mean a real breakdown of some part of the team and I don't see it happening.
Ok....all those haters that were cryin that USC only dropped to 10 after losing to Stanford, are pretty quiet this week seeing that LSU only dropped a few to 5 after losing to Kentucky. Granted UK if ranked and Stanford was not, but still. And USC dropped even more after a win. I dont see all the favortism that everyone east of New Mexico seems to think USC gets.
On another note....we seriously need a playoff. Theres no way this computer, voting, poll system is going to be completely fair all the time. (See LSU ranked ahead of UK) We need to let teams prove it on the field when it comes to crowning National Champs.
First to get this out there... I am an Ohio State fan.... here's my few thoughts on this season and how the season could pan out...
Ohio State has not played anyone note worthy, at the time they played a few teams (Washington, Purdue) it seemed like great match ups and has later proved to be wrong with Washington now 2-5 and Purdue not looking very good on Saturday. True we have played some weaker opponents, whether by scheduling so called "cupcakes" or because the Big Ten is down, we can sit here and argue this til the day we die, but whats important is that Ohio State has won. As has South Florida, as has BC. LSU's loss at Kentucky is a very admirable loss, and I still think they are the number one team in the land, but in a season of college football you have to win, regardless. Do i think Ohio State can run the table? Yes they can, do I think they will? No I don't. But what I think everyone needs to keep in mind, that in college football, the only thing that matters is the "W" in the win column.
With Virginia Tech and Florida State coming up the next two weeks it wouldn't shock me to see them loss both of those games. This is the same Boston College team that struggled to put away 1-AA UMASS a couple of weeks ago. If they get past those two I think they will finish with out a loss.
Bless you Stew....I hope you are right...Maybe this series of pitiful performances of our beloved Tigers, starting with the Tulane game, will wake up a sleepy offence who couldn't catch a pass with a fishing net saturday...and a D that never showed up at all...(where was Mr. Dorsey)Remember the final 4 LSU team who couldn't compete with an ok UCLA team Reason: Fragrance drunk with their own scent.
Love to see Kentucky beat Florida...to set up a replay in Atlanta..Geaux Tigers..
The absolute BEST possible scenario for this year:
South Florida and Hawaii play for the National Championship, and in a giant "who-cares" moment the ratings are lower than re-runs of Alf.
If this happens a couple more years in a row, then maybe they'll realize that the BCS was a failed experiment and either go back to either traditional bowls or a playoff, each more appealing to most fans.
That would be nice but unless every other team has 2 losses I don't see Hawaii coming close. There are alot of Division 1-AA teams with higher strength of schedule rankings. And they where only a missed two point conversion from losing to LA Tech.
Quoting JW: >>>South Florida and Hawaii play for the National Championship, and in a giant "who-cares" moment the ratings are lower than re-runs of Alf.
Hmm, I thought the championshop was about finding the best team, not appeasing television networks to maintain advertising money. Who cares if USF, Hawaii, whoever doesn't have a big fan base? This is a sports competition, not an ESPN shareholders meeting.
You have not given Ohio State their due credit since camp broke. I've read your column all season because there are very few editorials on college football (and I despise ESPN), but I've been met with crap every time. Unfortunately, you don't get it even when it is sitting right in front of you. So, I will no longer read your column since you cannot write intelligently. I am a better writer than you are, but unfortunately I have to work where the money flows. Loser.
Stewart: As an OU fan, I have to accept your assessment the Sooners won't make the championship, owing to strength of schedule. I suspect they will win the remainder of their games. This is an exceptionally good team. OU must do a better job putting together a stronger non-conference schedule. This year's opponents were as sub-par as they come. That said, you overrate LSU. Having watched them the last two weeks, they are not so exceptional, even if they offer such thrilling games. Any coach who goes for it on fourth as often as Les Miles, needs to have his head examined. It finally cost him a game.
In 1998 Ohio State was coached by one John Cooper. In 2007 it is coached by the Senator, whose record speaks for itself. In his 6 previous seasons in Columbus Tressel has won 1 national championship, 4 bowl games, and 5 michigan games. In his career he has won over 200 games, and 5 national titles. Furthermore, although people have dogged Ohio State for its mediocre strength of schedule this year, at least the Buckeyes are winnning the games they are supposed to win, which is more than could be said for Cal, USC, Texas, and Oklahoma. Only LSU has been as focused in every one of its games this season.
Posted: 1:58 AM by duckmeister Gee, HEY YOU BIG TEN BAFFOONS! Who have you beaten, besides other Big Ten teams? Oh, Ohio State beat a mid to second tier Washington team.
Hmmm...I suppose that the signature win by the SEC out of conference would be...oh wait...that's right...there isn't one. You beat up a VT team who can't decide if they have a quarterback or not, a Lousiville team who was exposed as a pretender...and who else...????
Tennessee sure looked good against Cal, didn't they? Or how 'bout Roll Tide against FSU? Or maybe all powerful Auburn against USF? (By the way...I love how SEC fans point to Tommy Tubberville's record against top five teams as reason why he's such a great coach. I would point to his subpar record against unranked opponents as why he is NOT.)
The point is that you'll rip on other conferences, but won't look in the mirror at your own. Except for beating each other up (and being rewarded by the same poll bias that you're crying about now), the SEC is an out of conference joke.
So stop selling the "we're the greatest" Kool-Aid, 'cuz nobody's buying it.
Ohio State has won the last 25 regular season games under Tressel. OSU defense is #1 this year, their offense is struggling. OSU has defeated every team they've ran into this season, including Washington; OSU's next 5 games are ALL "tough" opponents (Mich St, Penn St, Wisconsin, Michigan); teams that were all in the top 25 this year. Ohio State us a contender for the National Championship, and when everyone keeps discounting them as a contender, the harder they'll play. If there are any overrated teams out there, they are USC & LSU; both teams have always had easy schedules. Big10 > any conference, proven fact.
Okay, well, since we're clearly in "Here's What _I_ Think Land", here is what _I_ think (I'm an OSU fan by the way).
1) We'll know about OSU's mettle in the next month or so; they have some TOUGH games to play (including Penn State at night), so if they're still undefeated after all of that hopefully some of you can cut them a break. But yeah, right now we still don't truly know how good they are--but I think they're pretty damn good. Oh, by the way, as I understand it the Kent State game would have normally been a bye week, so the schools saw this as a more desireable alternative when they scheduled it lo those many moons ago.
2) Michigan is way better than most people think. Sometimes some humiliation can really galvanize a team, and I think that's happening with them.
3) The Big 10 is down this year, but not down as much as people think. Mark my words on this, people...you'll see it in the bowl games. If nothing else, they have something to prove and believe me, they'll do it.
4) The SEC is the best conference THIS YEAR, but not as much (and they're not as "supreme") as many think (heck, it's a normal reaction and we've felt that way here in the B10 before).
5) LSU still looks like the best team out there (and yeah, my fingers are burning as I type this). I'm only going off of what I've watched, but I guess that's what you'd like to have happen right? I mean, shouldn't the people making the ratings be watching the games, the style of play, the quickness, ferocity, etc. when they make their ratings? And be open-minded about it without assuming anyone is "automatically" quicker?
Most importantly, there is STILL so much football to be played...it'll shake out. And holy smokes, if it weren't for all the self-esteem at stake here (i.e., if we could truly just appreciate The Game for what it is) wouldn't this be a hell of a season to enjoy!
SasQuatch: Thanks for your comment, by the way, and likewise back to you as an SEC fan...I enjoy your posts!
At first I was wondering why you picked USF above Ohio State...then I realized. THE BUCKEYES HAVEN'T PLAYED ANYONE! USF beat Auburn, at Top 25 SEC team. I'm still saying its Oklahoma over LSU in the title game. BC and USF will get theirs, and Ohio State is not that good.
Ohio State has played a weaker schedule than anyone in the top 25. The only reason they have moved up to number one is that the other teams have all lost. Ohio State has not done anything on their own behalf to be rated number one. then again, neither has USF or BC. My opinion: LSU is the best team in the land even if they lost. They should still be number one. There is no way Ohio State, USF, or BC beats LSU. (BTW, I'm not an LSU fan).
I've come to the reluctant conclusion that the SEC fans that post here have a serious inferiority complex. What else explains their need for love from pollsters? Every argument they make is based on rankings, which are completely subjective and relative.
In the preseason teams are ranked based on how good they are thought to be, and each week thereafter they are ranked either on how well they are meeting those expectations, or how well they are projected to meet future expectations.
At any given moment 25 of 119 teams are ranked, but 41 have been at one point this season. Still, 64 will qualify for bowl games, and as of today 73 have winning records, all of which means there are many more than the 25 ranked teams capable of winning.
So, just because Florida or LSU losses came to teams ranked in subjective polls, and Ohio's State's wins came against teams deemed unworthy of a ranking doesn't mean anything. I'm sure USC, Rutgers and Oklahoma, all of whom lost their Top 10 rankings after losses to unranked opponents, understand this.
Oh, and to marks86:
An argument based on logic, reason and verifiable data and absent emotion is not "condescending."
And to charles:
I cited the NCAA toughest schedule cumulative data to discredit any argument of schedules played to date as immaterial. Schedules are 12 games long, not 7, and by season's end Ohio State will have played the toughest schedule of the teams now ranked in the BCS Top 5. And that will be just as true in December if Ohio State loses a game along the way. I'm sorry you don't like it, but no less an authority than the NCAA says Ohio State's schedule is the toughest of those five.
Too bad the BCS doesnt care about who people 'think' is the #1 team. OSU will not be jumped by a 1 loss team. IF OSU wins out they will go to the NC game.
Again, OSU has beaten nobody, but USC, Michigan, Texas, Cal, Oklahoma and Florida have all lost to a NOBODY. They have taken care of business and beaten the teams that they were suppose to beat.
THE BEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY RARELY WINS THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP! It is not about who is the best, it is about who hasnt lost. It is only the team that survives. There are 5 games left in the season, so this is all worthless talk. But lets still be realistic.
I hate the whole "Which conference is better" drama because it's absurd to think that bowl games can be used as a suitable measuring stick for this argument. And its inane to be arguing at this point of the season about out of conference schedules, conference bowl records (Buckeye fans keep pointing out the Big 10 vs SEC bowl records but you are still 0-8 against the SEC in bowl games by the way), and other coincidental statistics that almost always serve the interests of whomever took the time to research that statistic. Play the season out and have this argument in December, not October. Its like we are arguing over which of our five year olds are going to be better high school football players. IOW, we gots a lot of foobaw to be played.
Chad appears to be one of the few sane ones here. In most sports, the perceived "best" team rarely wins the Championship. Are you telling me that the Detroit Tigers weren't a better team than St. Louis last year? But they didn't win. If the Patriots go undefeated in the NFL regular season, but lose in the AFC Championship to Indy (in a rematch), are they no longer the "best?" As much as I love my Buckeyes, I KNOW FOR A FACT that Miami was the "better" team in 2002.
Rankings are made by sportwriters and coaches and other people who have a biased interest in "their" team being in or near the top. If they can't be at the top, then an opponent can be, so that the overall strength looks better for the conference.
Remember 1997 when Phil Fulmer ranked UM 7th (???) in his final poll? Don't tell me that high school politicing doesn't go on in ranking the "best" team.
What we have left (without a playoff system) is a broken, entirely subjective way of determing who our "champion" is.
The BCS is a joke, and is really no better than the old method of traditional bowls and arguing between fans of various conferences.
All you Ohio State fans keep comparing how OSU "dominated" Washington while USC struggled. Do you realize that Ohio State gave up almost TWICE as many total yards to UW as USC did? (And not in garbage time either.) Dominating defense? Not so sure.
In fact, USC, Boise State, UCLA and Arizona State all held Washington to fewer yards than Ohio State gave up. The only team that gave up more was Syracuse, so at least you beat Syracuse.
"THE BEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY RARELY WINS THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP! It is not about who is the best, it is about who hasnt lost. It is only the team that survives. There are 5 games left in the season, so this is all worthless talk. But lets still be realistic."
I actually somewhat agree with this. The strongest argument against the playoff schedule is the regular season. Simply put, if you don't lose, you should be playing in January. If you're from a BCS conference and run the table, you should be in the big game if no one else has. There's no way I'd put and LSU or Oklahoma (even though they probably are better teams and could win head-to-head) over BC or USF in a title game if those two win out. They lost. It's too difficult to ignore. The only problem that should be talked about is the possibility of 1-2-3 all being undefeated teams, at which point you obviously have to shut someone deserving out of the big game. I'm not going to put Hawaii in #1 vs. #2, but you can't say that BC shouldn't play in the championship game if they run the table in the ACC. It's the ACC... not the WAC. That said, there's a lot of games to be played. I doubt that we're going to have this same kind of problem in November. We just have to hope that something happens to either OU or LSU to help us differentiate who would go between them if there's only one undefeated team left.
As much as I admire your wanting to "leave it on the field" - the fact of the matter is that the BCS formula REQUIRES us to be having these kinds of arguments. After all, is a zero loss OSU team better than a one loss LSU team? As a Buckey fan, I'll be the first to admit probably not; but, the Buckeyes have won the games they were supposed to, while LSU has not. And,the entire SEC is arguing over and over that "they got jobbed" because their conference is so much tougher than the Big Ten. Unfortunately, since these teams don't play each other on a regular basis, the only measuring stick IS out of conference common opponents and bowl games. And, if the SEC would stick to the merits of OSU's season versus the Big Ten bashing that goes on, I think you would find a lot less statistical rhetoric present.
Fact: The Buckeyes have defeated two average/above average opponents.
Fact: The Tigers have defeated more than two average/above average opponents.
Fact: OSU is undefeated, while LSU is not.
Point is that in any sport (NFL, MLB, etc...), one conference is typically stronger than others (i.e. - the Western Conference in NBA vs. Eastern Conference). Does that mean that Miami should give back their NBA Championship because Dalls had a tougher regular season? That's absurd, and frighteningly the same logic being used by most SEC fans.
No system is ever truly "fair" (just ask Auburn in '03), but you've gotta' play with the cards you're dealt. If LSU punches it in with 1st and goal at the one - no debate and all is well in SEC land. So don't blame the Buckeyes, or BC, or USF for your shortcomings. Blame LSU for not getting the job done.
No other team comes close. Let's see, both a Pac 10 and Big 10 team have won 4 BCS games - no SEC team or anyone else, for that matter, can claim that. Only Oklahoma and Florida State have even played in 5 or more, and both have a losing record (2-3, and 1-5, respectively).
As for BCS Title Games, why bother - no team has one more than one, including all of the above...
Stop whining about things you can't control, let the season play out, stop insulting a team because their opponents can't get it up, and because it merits repeating, stop whining - you're an embarrassment to your conference.
"What's your point Trev? Because Utah and Boise State are undefeated in BCS play they are better than the SEC?"
No just pointing out to everyone calling out and taking to task SEC fans saying their confrence is pretty good. Well guess what other than the two one year wonders you mentioned the SEC has the best record in BCS games and the best record in BCS title games.
I put those stats up because people where calling out SEC fans so I wanted to point out the conference records not individual teams.
As for the Buckeyes if they win out, they deserve to be in the national championship game, however don't get upset when people point out that they havn't played anyone so far this year becaust it's the truth. At least it is until they get to the Penn State/Wisconsin/Michigan portion of the schedule.
As for the no other team comes close comment. Um...USC has the same exact record as Ohio State in BCS games overall and the same record in BCS championship games.
For "whining" check the very first comment on this board. It's an OHIO STATE fan whining about people "hatin". I was just pointing out why people don't give Ohio State that much love as of right now.
Netizen I find it highly ironic that you are dismissive of rankings until you use them. I also really do love how you used subjective AND relative in the same sentence.
Do you work for the government or a political campaign? Because if you don't you should be soon.
As it's pointed out in any prospectus " Past performance is not a guaranty of future performance. That's why strength of schedule is factored in by games played and not the entire schedule. Every single team on the remainder schedule may lose. That's the case for all teams. Which is another reason why it's not used to determine anything.
Which you should be glad about. Because the Big ten doesn't have a team ranked in the to 17. Minnesota comes in at 18.
The SEC has 3 in the top 10 alone. 7 in the top 26.
What does all of these stupid numbers mean?
It means that Big Ten fans like netizen like to use rankings just like everyone else. They just don't like to admit it.
"I've come to the reluctant conclusion that the SEC fans that post here have a serious inferiority complex. What else explains their need for love from pollsters? Every argument they make is based on rankings, which are completely subjective and relative."
USC will run the table...HA! USC struggled against 3 of the bottom 4 pac 10 teams losing to Stanford and only blew out WSU(the weakest pac-10 team). Their only other wins are against Idaho and Nebraska(arguably the worst Big 12 team after Iowa State and Baylor).
They still have to play 3 of the top 12 BCS teams(Cal,Oregon,ASU) and the two teams that beat them last year,when USC was actually good(Oregon Sate and UCLA). So this week at Notre Dame may be their only guaranteed win, if that.
The fact that USC is still being discussed in the national title picture is absurd. Kansas is a much more deserving team getting little if any attention from the USC obsessed media.
Stop living in the past people, this is a new year. USC is not going to to any BCS bowl. If you want a hint as to what bowl USC will be going to this year,all I have to say is Vivaaaaa Las Vegas!
As an Oregon fan, I have to laugh that the Billingsly rankings, one of the computer rankings used by the BCS, lists Michigan ahead of Oregon. If I remember correctly, Oregon throttled Michigan in Ann Arbor (this of course, was after Michigan lost to Appalachian St). The BCS is just a fantastic system.
BC will get enough tests to determine if it's ready for a nc. if they make it through these next 5 games, good luck in the national championship. @ Virginia Tech Florida State @ Maryland @ Clemson Miami
yeah yeah I know Miami and FSU are both down, but they're still always a tough game. That's 5 very quality games, just for anyone who says BC doesn't really play anyone. They also beat a good Wake team earlier. Wake isn't in the top 25? it doesn't matter for those of you who say big deal.. So many teams lose to unranked teams (Michigan, Oklahoma, Texas, Florida.. etc. etc. many many more) that you should be able to realize that being ranked isn't what makes a team you're playing a tough team.. Just a thought
What I don't understand about people citing computer rankings taking into account Ohio's entire schedule is how you can rely on this when an entire schedule hasn't been played yet. Sagarin is more understandable here, because the best any poll voter, computer, or fan can do is asses the season as it has progressed thus far. The schedule ranking that is being so heavily touted right now will be much different at the season's end, and you have NO WAY of knowing if OSU will still be ranked atop that list.
As for all the SEC-hating, I have to raise my eyebrows. Most of the comments on this board are from angry Big-10 fans/OSU fans. I don't think anyone is denying that OSU seems like a talented team, but that is all we can know until they are tested (like the Penn State night game). You want to bitch and bitch about SEC fans relying on preseason rankings, but that is why OSU is higher than USF: no one would have ever given a team like USF a shot in the preseason, so y'all started above them.
I also think everyone posting BCS histories is wasting their time. Y'all are all trying to fight this war like the last wars. Every season is completely different than the last, as this season should show more than anything. NCAAF is an evolving game, unlike the NFL with consistent powerhouses. Conference strength will always be cyclical. This year was the SEC's turn, and not so long ago was the Big-10s. I think next year it will be the Pac-10. Y'all all need to start living in the football-now timeframe.
I'm not even going to bother to pick a title contender because the odds ar ecertainly in no one's favor. The football gods seem determined to have everyone lose a game this season, and I think it will be interesting to watch it all play out.
Now, my one biased comment as a die-hard LSU fan: to the person somewhere in these comments (allegedly a mac fan) who thinks Michigan is more deserving of a title shot than the one loss teams they said couldn't win their games when they counted...what the hell? You make me laugh.
This is exactly why we need a playoff system. Humans can't pick a number one without being subjective and computer crunching number don't add up to what happens on the field. Only the field of play can decide the champ.
What is it with Ohio State fans and the phrase "in the land"? "We have the best (fill in the blank) in the land". Best defenses, best team, number one team, etc. Do you also have the best OOC schedule in the land? The best conference in the land?
Moratorium request - no more "in the land" references. Totally lame...
WOW, I really think most of us need to go find another way to waste our time. People hatin on OSU, hatin on LSU, hatin on the Big 10 or the SEC...whatever. We should all sit back and realize that this is a crazy, once in a lifetime year for college football.
Personally, I think we should just create a new NC trophy to be awarded to the winner of the LSU-FLA game every year. This would take care of alot of the worrying of the SEC fans about not being respected, blah, blah, blah. All you other fans of SEC teams, before you start complaining, start beating the Tigers and Gators.
As for all the Ohio State crap...who cares about this year, it's just a REBUILDING year after all...
Everyone needs to relax we are only half way through the year on conference play is just beginning to pick up. Everyone bashing OSU has a good case because of how weak their schedule is but you also need to consider how many other teams have slipped up against weaker opponents. I think LSU has a great team and will make it to the championship but i am sick of hearing SEC fans act like they shouldnt drop because they lost to a quality team. If you are the #1 team and expect to make it to the NC and win it then you need to stop dropping 5-10 passes a game. The didnt excute and that is the reason they lost. So they should drop below some the undefeated teams and if they can fix that they will deserve to be in the NC.
For those of you who hate Stewart so much or put him down of his opinions, why do you bother coming here? And do YOU have a website that thousands of people go to in order to tell their opinions? I doubt it. And from the spellings and grammar (alright, this is internet so maybe no one cares), I'd say some of you are either still in middle school or haven't gone beyond it.
I am definately not an expert on stats or can recall what happened in 2003 (I can't remember what I had for dinner Thursday night) -- but I do agree with Marks86's comment back to netizen's hardness of schedule comment. You just have to look at who Ohio State has played and their rankings. And I think a lot can be said for year-after-year rivals-- those games, it seems on any given Saturday, one can overcome the other, no matter what the ranking. It's odd when a higher ranked team always has trouble at a typically unranked division rival.
Anyways, I agree- too early to start guessing. And it's all a guess right now or else, you'd all be filthy rich. Maybe you are and that's how you can be online posting all day long! Must be nice.
Oh, one last comment. I'm not a Ohio State hater, although I've come to realized that they do hate us Gators (can't blame them though), but for those that say Ohio State will be playing for the National title, well, more likely than not, they'll play like last year against anyone else that has played so far this year, ranked teams, even with 1 or 2 losses. How can you get any better when you don't play against anyone that is going to give you some good practice? For instance, do I like to play a round of golf with someone that is in the 90-100s? No, now that I've gotten better, I like playing with lower handicap players and perhaps I can learn something from them. Ohio State is not in the learning mode. IF they reach that game, they'll be schooled. If it's against the Gators, I'll play LOTTO that night.
OK kids, take a look here quickly. The Buckeyes have allowed 4 TD's in 7 games this year and 2 of those were in the last minutes of BLOW out games against back ups. No matter what the schedule looks like,THAT'S IMPRESSIVE!
Like the comment above The Kent/ Kentucky game was played against starters for Kentucky pretty much the whole game, this is the team that beat the unbeatable LSU Tigers. OSU punished Washington on the same field that Washington gave USC all they could handle.
I'm not saying that OSU is the best team in the country, but they do deserve their ranking for now and if they run the table they will deserve thr shot at the title.
Also, why is no one talking about Jim Tressel for Coach of the Year?
Who else in the country lost a Heisman Trophy winner, starting tailback who ran for 1300 yards and 2 first round WR's along with 2 O-linemen and several Defensive starters and could have their team in the thick of the Hunt AGAIN!
Talk about reloading!
OSU will win out and take some bit of redemption (from last year) on those kitty cats from Baton Rouge on pretty much their home field. Of course, there will most likely be as many OSU fans as there are LSU fans in the Dome!
I'm guessing Kentucky kept startes in against Kent State because they wanted to give their players a shot at upping their stats. I don't know if Andre Woodson played through most of that game, but I would speculate that if he did it has a lot to do with potential Heisman hopes and wanting to up his percentages, throws, TDs, and completions. But this isn't based on fact or anything, just my own hypothesizing.
We all agree that we need a playoff system, but unfortunately we are stuck with the BCS. The SEC is definitley the toughest division out there followed by the Pac-10, and on the flip side, WAC and Big East are the weakest- sorry. South Floriday is a great team, but they are in a bad lousy division. But would they still be where they are if they were in the SEC- prob not, but who knows. More than likely, South Florida and BC will lose sometime during the next few games. Oklahoma will most likely be in the NC, as they "should" coast thru the rest of their season. Expect Oklahoma to play LSU in the NC if LSU can win the remainder of their games. As for ASU, they haven't played anyone yet this year, their season has yet to start. Same could be said of WV (don't know how they are in the top 10).
At least most posts are ragging on OSU and leaving the South Florida Bulls alone.
There is one post that stated OSU had done nothing to be #1 and that they were there b/c evryone else lost and then added South Florida had done nothing either to deserve their ranking. WHAT???? South Florida beat Auburn in Auburn (yes the SEC is a good conference. I do not care if they are the best or second best) and they beat a top ten team West Virginia team. I think that is sonmething.
To Larry. You are an intelligent well thought out OSU fan. Yesterday you answered a post of mine concerning OSU fans. Read these posts and you cannot deny some (majority) of OSU fans on this blog are talking smack not based on any reason.
Hopefully the South Florida Bulls keep on rollin on Thursday night against Rutgers.
Dammit, now I'm hooked on leaving some sort of comment! haha.. alright, one last comment before getting back to work...
Chad says: "Again, OSU has beaten nobody, but USC, Michigan, Texas, Cal, Oklahoma and Florida have all lost to a NOBODY. They (OSU)have taken care of business and beaten the teams that they were suppose to beat."
Would I be wrong to say to the comment, "OSU has beaten nobody"-- TRUE! -- but also have to add as others have done so much more eliquently than I, that OSU hasn't played "noboday" and has beaten a "nobody" (in manner of rankings that is-- I'm sure those schools are great schools) over and over and over again.
All I can say is I'm proud of the Gator players and coaches, after-all it was supposed to be a rebuilding year with only having 10 seniors returning on the whole team (I believe that is the stat-- I'm sure someone will/can correct me). Sometimes we forget that the players are 18/19/20 year olds. What pressures they have! We go to Ole Miss and barely win because for almost all our starters, it'll be their first road trip. I would have thought so what? They should know how to play away from home. That's what makes a great team-- to win on the road also. But I can't think that. I have never been in that particular situation. But how grand it must be to be there nevertheless!
USF is the better team,, and I'm just throwing this out there, but I have a gut feeling that Rutgers will upset them on Thursday night. Just going into NJ to play them, I think RU will make a statement.. they will be the Cincinnati of last year
Blame it all on the erroneous pre season rankings.... There shouldn't be any rankings until the 3rd week of the season -then the regular season rankings may be more fair and reflective of the current season not on the past season
Well, I'm a Buckeye fan and I don't hate the Gators. I think they're a team like every other one out there, better than most, but still just a team (and no, I don't find the gator chomp thing all that intimidating either). I could certainly do without the ridiculously arrogant comments from a lot of fans, but EVERY team unfortunately has that as part of its fan base.
I think, however, that you're underestimating the impact of the mental side of the game in your comments and overemphasizing the physical side. Frankly I don't think there's that much of an objective difference any more in terms of speed, etc. among the best teams. I think what is WAY more impactful during a game is the mental, psychological, etc. Last year, OSU was like Rocky in Rocky III (sorry to resort to movie analogies but hey)...they were overconfident and weren't as prepared as they should have been. They didn't have the "eye of the tiger" (NOT an LSU tiger by the way) like they did when playing Miami in 2002. When Ginn got hurt early on, it dealt another psychological blow that they were unprepared to deal with (as well as altered the strategic plan of the game). Was OSU a great team last year? Absolutely. Anyone who thinks otherwise, frankly, doesn't know talent when they see it. But they didn't do what they needed to do to be ready with that sharp edge for the title game, and they paid a devastating cost for it. The mental and psychological elements of the game are every bit as important in a win as the physical.
With that in mind, please be assured that NO ONE up here wants to ever have that happen again, and I guarantee you that Jim Tressel will not ALLOW it to happen again. Just like other smart people, we learn. The remainder of OSU's season is by far the toughest part. If OSU wins out and makes it to the NC game, they will absolutely have that razor edge and hunger back, and while they may lose, they will not be "schooled" by anyone.
By the way, in 2002 Miami fans went on and on and on about how we were going to be "schooled by Messrs. Blah and Blah and Blah". Didn't happen then, and it won't happen again. Not after last year.
In any case, what a year eh? I'll echo other posters in saying "wait for it, guys, it'll all sort out".
the BCS is a joke. maybe this will be the year that finally gets the university presidents to approve a playoff system. imagine at the end of the year if there are no undefeated teams yet ohio state, oklahoma, oregon, USC or Cal, LSU, south florida, BC and hawaii each have but one loss. with so many upsets, how can polls or computers possibly pick a matchup for the NC game that can't be picked apart...
I'm an OSU fan. I also graduated from Auburn. Knowing a bit about both the SEC and Big Ten I can tell you a conference game, no matter what the team, is a tough game. Auburn lost to Miss. St. then beat Florida. It's crazy yes but that's what happens in conference games. I understand OSU hasn't play the toughest teams in the world. But they still have to play Mich. ST., Wisconsin, Michigan and Penn St. For anyone to say those are cupcake games is rediculous. Those will all be hard fought games. If OSU wins out they deserve the National Championship game period. I watched Auburn get the shaft a couple of years ago cause people said they had a weak schedule. If ANYONE can run the SEC or the BIG TEN they weren't weak. So lets stop trash talking and just wait and see what happens.
"OSU punished Washington on the same field that Washington gave USC all they could handle."
You do realize that Ohio State gave up more yards to Washington than any team UW has played besides Syracuse. Punished? Ohio State gave up more yards than Boise State, UCLA, Arizona State, and almost twice as many as USC. And not in garbage time either.
If OSU makes it through the weak Big Ten they will lose the NC again. (Unless they get lucky and play someone like USF or BC.)
I love my Buckeyes and I won't even pretend to be unbiased here. Do I REALLY think my Buckeyes are the best team in the nation? No-- I'm not that delusional-- in my opinion, that honor belongs to LSU. However, Ohio State has been underrated and overlooked since pre-season. Did the losses on offense hurt? Absolutely. But there is a lot of young talent proving they are ready to pick up where Smith, Gonzo, Ginn, and Pittman left off. Add in a killer defense that has allowed 6.6 points per game, and you have a team that deserves at least a modicum of respect that they are only now beginning to get. Maybe that's why most of the OSU fans here are bitter and hatey...
Number One (besides in my book)? Probably not. Respectable? Absolutely. So let us fans savor the moment-- it may be gone sooner than we'd like.
And for the record:
1) Stewart, save the Celebrity Crush hoopla, you rock my world!
2) My hatred for Florida stems less from last year's debacle and more from my distaste for their coach (and his complete lack of integrity in how he left Bowling Green and probably Utah)
3) blahdblah: the only time Ohio State fans use "in the land" is for our marching band. TBDBITL (the best damn band in the land) is a trademark... that it is true only reinforces the statement. I may be mistaken, but I don't think there are any other universities in the country where the shouts and applause for the band are as loud as those for the football team.
Guys, is it just me or are girls who can talk spack about football (even if they hate the Gators) are sexy!! Sorry, that's not meant to be chauvinistic. But dayum...
But ok. I have to follow up on Myer because I thought everyone loved him, not just the Gator boosters and fans.
I thought people hated the Gators because of Spurrier and how he would throw his visor (I laughed at it). But then, I hear others still hating us, I mean, REALLY HATE US. Then, I'm thinking what now? Yeah, every team has their worst fans. Do Ohio State fans hate us because we beat them last year-- in both sports (oops, sorry, there's more to life than NCAA football and basketball). I'm sure there was some taunting going on by some Gators, but most of us are pretty cool. I don't hate any fans, well, except for maybe Miami (FL) fans because they're so fickle and seem to not stand by their team. (And the fact that it SEEMS that over 80% of their fans didn't go there. But then, it costs $$$$$ to do so.)
This board is frustrating. Ohio State would probably not beat LSU, Florida, Oklahoma, USC, USF, BC, if we had to play them all, but none of those teams above would go undefeated vs all the others either. THERE IS NO PLAYOFF. The only thing that matters in college football is going undefeated. I would love an 8 team playoff, esp in a year like this, but THERE IS NOT ONE. Most Ohio State fans will admit that this was not suppose to be our strongest team we have had, and YES we backed into the #1 ranking, but so what? If USC had beaten Stanford (on the same level with Minnesota) then they would be ranked #1. The Big 12 is down, if Oklahoma had beaten CO like they were suppose to beat, they would be #1. Ohio State has given up the least amount of points (46) in the country. Who cares how many yards Washington put up against Ohio State? They only scored 14 points, and one TD WAS in garbage time. Yards mean NOTHING. How many points you score vs how many points you give up are the only two stats that matter in football. I dont want to get caught up on OSU did this to Washington and USC did this, but the fewest amount of points that Washington has scored this year was against OSU. "Deserving" of rank is ridiculous thing to argue about and because there is no playoff then the BCS is set up that if you are undefeated and in a major conf then you will go to the National Championship game unless there happens to be 3 undefeated teams. This is the 7th game of the season (6 for some). Ohio State has to play at Penn St at night and at better than expected Michigan. We are along way from anything. The only thing that is for sure at this point is Florida wont win it again!
accfan123 - I hope your gut is wrong and the Bulls come out of New jersey with a win, but you could be right. Unfortunately I will not state that South Florida WILL win(unlike the OSU fans on this blog who think there team is the greatest ever) b/c I just do not know. I too think they are a better team but South Florida is new to this whole ranked in the top 5 scenario, it is going to be very cold (it will affect them just as it affects me just moving to VA from FL and how it affects the Bucs (Tampa Bay that is)) and it is a raod conference game. I think our defense is one of the best in the country but the last running back (over 14 games ago) to gain 100 yards was Ray Rice.
Much as I'd like to think that Oregon will win through to the title game, they had two bad injuries this weekend with WR Cameron Colvin (#1 receiver Paysinger already out) and RB Jeremiah Johnson lost for the season. Unless somebody steps in big time off the bench, the Ducks are in some trouble.
If you look at the Big Ten, there are 8 teams with 2 losses or less. Just two of them are ranked(OSU and TSUN/PSU, depending on your poll).
If you look at the SEC, there are 8 teams with two losses or less, and yet 7 of them are ranked.
It's an interesting media construction....the pollsters think, before a single game is played, the SEC is great and the Big Ten is down, so we'll rank those teams better than the Big Ten teams with equal records. Then, we'll continue to rag on the Big Ten by saying how their teams aren't ranked, and use that to bash schedules.
Sorry, but 8 2 losses teams is 8 two loss teams, and that's just how it is
Never said a thing about the outcome. If OSU can continue to have a 4-0 turnover ratio (like against UW) they will probably run the table. I'm just pointing out that OSU's supposedly dominating defense didn't stuff UW, the way some are claiming.
Ohio State has done exactly what they needed to do, they've won. Was the win at Washington overly impressive? Here's a couple of SEC road games played at BCS conference opponents: Tennessee lost to Cal. Here's another, Alabama lost to FSU. By the way, when Miss State losses to West Virginia in a couple weeks that'll make the SEC 0-3 on the road against BSC conference teams (only one of those games was played outside the south). If you include Auburn's loss at home to USF and Ole Miss losing to Missouri, the only quality BCS non-conference win is LSU over Va. Tech. Not a great record. So tell me again that Ohio State traveling across the country to play at Washington isn't a good win.
"Here's a couple of SEC road games played at BCS conference opponents: Tennessee lost to Cal. Here's another, Alabama lost to FSU. By the way, when Miss State losses to West Virginia in a couple weeks that'll make the SEC 0-3 on the road against BSC conference teams (only one of those games was played outside the south)."
I am an Ohio State fan, and as much as I am happy for them at the moment, I am not counting my chickens just yet. I respect other conferences--all of these boys play very well. I won't spend time knocking on other people's teams if you all will kindly refrain from knocking on mine.
I think what the NCAA needs to do (besides a playoff) is to relegate non-conference play to the pre-season. Have one or two tune up games a few weeks before the regular season starts. Don't count it towards the ranking. That frees up time to play everyone in your conference (or close to that depending on the number of teams in the conference.)The result is that you don't have people grousing about schools like OSU having a "cupcake" schedule. Only rank a team by the conference play.
I know it won't happen, but it would sure stop the griping... for about 5 minutes.