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SI.com college football writer Stewart Mandel shares his commentary, analysis and random tidbits on the latest developments around the country.10/07/2007 04:16:00 PM Five Things We Learned This Weekend
1) That Pete Carroll is facing his first true crisis. Following the most stunning defeat imaginable (in its own stadium, no less) USC must deal with more than just the humiliation of losing fingers. Unlike after previous losses, the Trojans can't just snap their fingers and instantly rise back up the polls. In one unthinkable evening, the very tenets that fostered the aura of invincibility that's surrounded Carroll's program these past five years -- that no individual is irreplaceable, that no problem that comes up can't be fixed, that the Trojans' recruiting machine just keeps humming and that freshmen can step in and shine right away -- were shattered.
John David Booty played the entire game despite injuring his finger in the first half.Lisa Blumenfeld/Getty Images
If he hasn't already, Carroll must come to grips with the fact that apparently, some people are irreplaceable -- like two renowned offensive coordinators (Norm Chow and Lane Kiffin, both now in the NFL), two straight Heisman QBs (Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart) and a pair of NFL receivers (Steve Smith and Dwayne Jarrett). He must deal with the fact that USC's offense, specifically its passing game, is in shambles; that a quarterback, John David Booty, for whom he undoubtedly feels extreme loyalty (Booty skipped his final year of high school for Carroll, then waited nearly four years to see the field), is now hurting his team more than he's helping; and that his latest batch of blue-chip receivers simply isn't panning out. Booty, who injured a finger on his throwing hand in the first half Saturday yet for some reason played the rest of the way, has thrown six interceptions in two weeks, two of them returned for touchdowns. His third of the night set up Stanford's improbable game-winning drive.
Booty's struggles are admittedly not 100 percent of his own making. But this isn't the NFL. Carroll can't go out and find a couple free-agent receivers mid-season who don't drop balls like they weigh 100 pounds. He can't magically make a bunch of freshmen and sophomores grow up faster. But he can make the tough but necessary decision to change quarterbacks. It's not like Booty's backup, Mark Sanchez, is chopped liver. Maybe he can spark the Trojans' offense with his ability to move in the pocket and his noted touch on the deep ball. And it may well turn out he has a better rapport with the likes of Patrick Turner and Vidal Hazelton simply by having practiced with them on the second string and scout team these past couple of years. Sanchez doesn't need to part the seas. No one expects him to lead the Trojans back to the national title game (yet) because no one expects these Trojans to wind up back in the hunt (Cal, Oregon and Arizona State must be foaming at the mouth after Saturday night). But perhaps he can at least stop the bleeding -- and, in doing so, resuscitate the notion that the next set of USC stars is always waiting in the wings.
2) That Ohio State has a national-championship defense. A year ago, the season-long No. 1 Buckeyes tried to win a national title -- and came within one game of doing it -- while contradicting the accepted adage that defense wins championships. OSU's inexperienced 2006 defense was good, not great, but its ultra-explosive offense was able to compensate in the event of a shootout like the 42-39 Michigan game -- that is, until it ran into Florida, which not only exploited its defense but neutralized the offense. A year later, no one would mistake the Buckeyes' Todd Boeckman-Brian Robiskie-Chris Wells offense for the Troy Smith-Ted Ginn-Anthony Gonzalez edition, but that might not matter, because their defense is playing at a whole other level. If any Big Ten offense could have exposed OSU's D, it would have been Purdue's senior-laden unit, which came in averaging nearly 500 yards a game. So what did the Buckeyes do? Shut out the Boilers for 59:50.
Improbable as it seemed a month ago, these Buckeyes are actually better suited for a title run than last year's more heavily hyped squad. Admittedly, part of that is due to the lack of a worthy adversary in their own conference. The Big Ten's only other ranked teams as of this week are Wisconsin and Illinois, both of which must come to Columbus and neither of which is strong enough on defense to beat the Buckeyes (to do so, you're going to have to shut down their offense, because they're almost certainly going to shut down yours). OSU's toughest remaining tests figure to come Oct. 27 at Penn State and Nov. 17 at Michigan. While the Nittany Lions' meek offense will be hard-pressed to score points against the Bucks, they will also present a far tougher defense than OSU has yet faced. As for the Michigan game, that one's not as much about the matchup as it is the ever-present wild-card factor that comes with that rivalry.
Because the Big Ten lacks a true litmus test, it's hard to say what would happen if OSU actually reached its second straight title game, but generally a great defense (the Bucks are currently No. 1 nationally in scoring defense, No. 2 in total defense) gives a team a chance against just about anybody. There's only one team in the country right now that would be a prohibitive favorite against them on a neutral field. Which brings us to ....
3) That two-quarterback systems are about to spread like gang-fire. Football coaches are notorious copy-cats, so it was almost inevitable that Florida's unique use of Tim Tebow off the bench last season en route to the national title would spawn its share of imitators. What's remarkable, however, is not only how quickly it spread to this year's new national title favorite, but just how much LSU has advanced the concept with the way it uses Matt Flynn and Ryan Perriloux.
If you recall, the Gators used Tebow almost exclusively as a straight-ahead, fullback-type runner, and did so out of necessity (they simply didn't have a tailback they trusted as much to gain the tough yards). It wasn't the scheme that made it so successful as much as the sheer difficulty entailed in tackling Tebow (as we're seeing even more so this year). While the Tigers also utilize Perriloux almost exclusively as a runner (or at least they did Saturday night against Florida), the way they do so is so much more dynamic. Not only does he run the option, but he's equally likely to either tuck it or pitch it on any given play. It's difficult enough to prepare for a pure-option team nevertheless one for whom it's just one part of the game plan, along with Flynn's spread passing, Jacob Hester's power running and Keiland Williams or Trindon Holliday's breakaway ability.
Thus, the aforementioned comment about Ohio State's chances if they were to face the Tigers. I say it not because "the SEC team is so much faster, blah, blah, blah," but because even the most dominant defense would be hard-pressed to completely shut down such a versatile attack. There may be more explosive offenses out there (Cal, Oregon, West Virginia, Hawaii, Texas Tech, et. al.), but none present as many different challenges as LSU's. If you shut down one aspect of it (say, Flynn), they can simply turn to another (say, Hester). By no means does this make the Tigers invincible (after this season, I assume no one will ever use that word again in college football circles). But the fact is, LSU just played the one team on its schedule that matches up with it athletically. Florida had a near-perfect game plan, played about as well as humanly possible, and might have won if not for the second-half turnovers. If the Tigers do lose sometime in their next six games, it will almost certainly require a "letdown" performance on their part (the type which they proved capable of against Tulane), because no other SEC team has both enough weapons on offense to score points against Glenn Dorsey and Co., and a defense that can handle all the various elements of LSU's offense.
4) That you don't need a second QB if your first is Chase Daniel. Matt Ryan, Brian Brohm, Andre Woodson, Tebow, Colt Brennan and Dennis Dixon have all taken their turns under the Heisman spotlight, but take a look at what Missouri's impressive signal-caller is doing. In the Tigers' two biggest games to date, Daniel went 37-of-54 for 359 yards and three touchdowns in a 40-34 win over Illinois, then, in Saturday night's 41-6 undressing of Nebraska, turned in his finest performance to date: 33-of-47 for 401 yards and two TDs. Though he threw two interceptions apiece against Western Michigan and Illinois State, he's been pick-free in the big games.
While no one would mistake the Illini or Huskers as defensive juggernauts (and in fact, Nebraska defensive coordinator Kevin Cosgrove may well be enlisted in the Witness Protection Program at this point -- though it's the witnesses to his defense who could truly use some help right now), it's clear that Daniel, now in his second year starting, has become masterful at running Gary Pinkel's shotgun-spread offense (after running nearly the same thing back in his Southlake Carroll days). The Big 12 North figures to be a wild scramble all season, with Kansas, Kansas State and Colorado all playing factors as well, but if Daniel continues his current play -- and, perhaps more importantly, if Mizzou's oft-questioned defense proves that Saturday night's surprising shutdown of the Huskers was no fluke -- Pinkel may finally have himself a team even he can't screw up.
5) That USC is still a top-10 team. Wait ... what??? Far be it for me to question my fellow voters, but I have to say I was beyond stunned when the new polls came out Sunday and the Trojans had not dropped into the teens as I was expecting. The coaches actually voted them seventh. Seventh! How could any rational human being still think USC is one of the seven best teams in the country at this point? Apparently, you can suffer the biggest upset in the history of the sport (according to Vegas) and barely pay a price if you've won recent national championships and/or the game was shown on Versus (so no one saw it).
It'd be one thing if the USC-Stanford result happened in a vacuum. Then I could see chalking it up as a fluke and treating it accordingly. But c'mon, people. This is a team that had been showing signs of "overrated" syndrome since Idaho and had nearly lost to an inferior opponent just a week earlier. Its one tangible demonstration of excellence came against a Nebraska team that has since been exposed as a fraud. But apparently ... still a top-10 team. I dropped the Trojans to 20th on my AP ballot, and there seems to me a pretty clear double-standard in practice here. As you may recall, when Michigan lost to Appalachian State, it dropped from fifth to all the way out of the rankings. Granted, that was the first game of the season, and the Wolverines hadn't already won four games like the Trojans, and of course, Stanford is a Pac-10 team, App. State is I-AA. But if Appalachian State and Stanford had played each other Saturday, which team do you think would have been favored? (Even after beating USC, the 61st-ranked Cardinal are just seven spots higher than the No. 68 Mountaineers in Jeff Sagarin's Division I ratings). This was every bit as bad a loss, but wasn't treated as such by the pollsters.
Not wanting to end this post on a negative note, and having devoted two of this week's five items to USC's loss, I want to take a moment to salute Stanford coach Jim Harbaugh. It's been six long years for Cardinal fans since Ty Willingham's last season (in which the Cardinal won nine games), during which time they endured three coaching changes and a whole lot of losses. In the outspoken but utterly confident Harbaugh, it appears Stanford has finally found its man -- because his team certainly took on his persona with such a fearless performance Saturday night.posted by Stewart Mandel | View comments |Comments:
Pretty cool that Harbaugh refused to be interviewed at the end of the game by running away and leaving the quarterback the center of attention.This off season, Jim Harbaugh has earned my respect. First for calling out his alma mater on the shady nature of its football program, and second for morphing this team from a loser to a winner. They still have a lot of work to do but they are on their way. Attitude is very important and it tends to be contagious. Stay in Palo Alto Jim, you can never go home again, and honestly, if you lived in the Bay Area, why on Earth would you want to move back to the midwest.Why does the media act like the it is a brand new idea for RB's and WR's to take dirct snaps? Every Saturday I hear about this new concept.
It has been happening for years.If USC shouldn't be #7 in the Coaches Poll, who do you put above them? Oregon? West Virginia? Virginia Tech? South Carolina? Wisconsin?
Let's face it, everybody's flawed and upsets are happening all over the place. So a loss like the one to Stanford isn't going to hurt as much as it would in a typical season.As for item #5, agreed. There is such a double-standard in the rankings. The polls often represent people's favorite teams, not the genuine (but less media-friendly) talents. And I'm not even necessarily talking about USC vs. U of M here. Lots of underdog talents go ignored in favor of the superstar colleges. USC is just the most glaring example of that.
The only thing all these upsets mean is that the ranking system is FLAWED people!! When half the so-called best teams in the country lose in ONE WEEKEND, that is a sign that the poll numbers mean nothing b/c people are voting for their favorites (e.g. USC) and ignorning the real (but less media-friendly) talents.
This is why college football needs a playoff. It will never happen, I know, b/c meathead jocks seem to be running the BCS, but if it were a fair system, that is how things would be done.LSU didn't copy Florida with the two QB setup. Gary Crowten was using it in Oregon for the past couple years, it'd been done with DennisDixon and Kellen Clemens, then Dixon and Brady Leaf. The system is haralded as genius when it works, and when it stops working, or ruins the tempo of a game, the coaches get roasted (which is what happened with Belotti and Crowten in Oregon).Stewart,
As bad as this is going to sound, I'm beginning to be more in favor of the computer driven polls to rank teams. We all know that a playoff system will never be around, so that leaves us with the bowl system. However, after watching USC stay in the top freakin' ten after UM got crucified for a loss every bit as bad...it's obvious to me that the human element is royally screwing up the polls. Don't give me that crap about "who do you put up there higher?"...FIND SOMEONE! If UM gets crushed for an awful loss...why the hell does USC get a free pass? Aren't the polls supposed to rank you for what you've done THIS SEASON?????
I'm so sick of seeing the UMs and the Clemsons and the Georgias consistently be rated higher than they should be simply because when my grandfather was alive they were good.All I have heard all summer and fall up until today is how great and how deep USC is.... Now they lose a game and people start saying that they saw this coming!!!
Sounds like someone jumped off the bandwagon!!!Stewart, I can't believe you voted USC 7th! Are there really 19 teams that would beat the Trojans on a neutral field. Common man. Would Rutgers really beat them? What about BC? 20 is way too low. Your AP ballet should be removed.If USC shouldn't be #7 in the Coaches Poll, who do you put above them? Oregon? West Virginia? Virginia Tech? South Carolina? Wisconsin?
Virginia Tech. Better record. Sole loss has come away against #1.
South Carolina. Better record. Sole loss has come away against #1.
West Virginia. Better record. Sole loss has come away against #5.
Oregon. Same record. Sole loss has come against #2. (And could very well "upset" USC in less than a month).Just a prediction: This will be the year that a 2-loss team will be in the BCS Title game. Much to the chagrin of 1-loss USF and undefeated Hawaii.So... Oklahoma loses to unranked Colorado, falls 3rd to 10th. USC loses to unranked Stanford, falls 2nd to 10th. Fair, right?
Well... Colorado is 29th in the Sagarin, while Stanford is 61st. Both teams lost to Arizona State, but Stanford lost 41-3 at home while Colorado lost 33-14 on the road. Stanford lost -- badly, and at home -- to the only team beaten by Notre Dame so far this year (UCLA).
Somehow, the coaches penalize USC even *less* than the AP poll? How has a USC team beaten by Stanford demonstrated that it is better than an Oregon team beaten by Cal (and which beat Stanford)? Is a one-loss USC team that beat Nebraska 49-31 better than an undefeated Missouri team that beat Nebraska 41-6? Are USC's four wins so much stronger than Arizona State's six wins that they offset also having a loss (which ASU does not)?
I guess I shouldn't be surprised -- it's not like hardly anyone pretends rankings actually reflect the current season of play. Still, it seems pretty crazy to me that the team to blow the biggest Vegas spread ever is still a top 10 (or top 7) team.
As for Stanford.... FINALLY. It's been a long dry spell since Willingham got stolen away for a short stint with the broken pressure-cooker that is Notre Dame. What remains to be seen is whether this game is just the Mother of All Flukes or finally the beginning of a turnaround after last year's apocalypse. At least, just for this week, Stanford is on top of the world!We're overrated at #7, but we'll take it thank you and hopefully, do something with it. If we don't, it won't matter where we're ranked tis week anyway.I just have a question I would like to pose for discussion. Does anyone else feel Ohio State is on a mission similar to that of a military mission to get back to THE GAME and prove itself as one of the best teams if not the best team of the last decade. I watch them play and it is scary how businesslike and professional they look. It has the eerie resemblence of what New England does in the pros year aftewr year. Please everyone get off the USC bandwagon and start to recognize Ohio State as maybe the best around.The future for USC (remember, this is supposed to the rebuilding time for USC) lies with Mark Sanchez & Co. For better or worse, the future offense of USC will depend on Sanchez and these young receivers. USC will rebound stronger than some expect after this loss, but they will not contend for the national title for at least another year or two.ryan, we Buckeye fans are still a little shellshocked after January's drubbing. The Homers in town are screaming about that #3 ranking being far too low. har har
Truthfully, I'm smelling a little 2002 stench starting to happen; this team is better, though. I'm not sure which is a stronger desire: redemption or 34 years of hunger.
Florida fans seem to forget that 1995 year when they were throttled badly by Nebraska (62-26, I think?). They came back and destroyed the 'Noles the next year.
Not to be greedy, but last night's offensive playcalling by Tressel was genius: for 15 minutes. Once he got a 14 point lead on the road, he sat on it, playing to kick FGs and punts. He got lucky this time.There is a double standard in the voting. Kansas is undefeated and with a stronger resume, yet ranked lower than Hawaii. But Kansas is a small frog in a big pond and must prove itself to voters. Hawaii is a big frog in a small pond and cries that it is unfair not to rank them high. Anyone thinking mid majors can't schedule BCS teams when they want should check Utah's schedule.Watch out Stu! Auburn is capable of doing exactly what you say cannot be done. They took Tebow out of the game for 3 quarters unlike LSU, and now have a balanced offense much unlike Florida. And when they do beat LSU, please dont excuse it as a LSU letdown.
VKI really think that it is about time that Ohio State gets the reconization it deserves. As all the media darlings (USC, Michigan, etc.) fall only then does OSU get cudos. We'll see who the better program has been for the last decade when a more experienced offence and essentially the same defence with more experience plays USC early next year in their place. Only then will the cat be out of the bag. OSU football and coach Tressel has been and will be great for years to come. What do you guys out there think?I said early on that I didn't see any team this year going undefeated. I still haven't seen anybody that impresses me enough to change that viewpoint - but- I may have to concede Ohio State pulling it off. Let's face it, the Big Ten is lame as usual and the only two teams left that have a chance are playing in the 'shoe. I doubt that OSU could beat LSU right now on a neutral field. The problem is, that may not happen. LSU is bound to lose a game in the SEC, and unfortunately for them, that loss will probably come late. (Sorry South Florida and BC fans, but I don't consider you guys a factor.) The highest positioning right now among 1-loss teams seems to be Oklahoma. They played it perfectly - if you are going to lose - lose early. LSU's loss will come late enough that they won't eclipse in points a resilient Sooner team and the BCS Championship will be OSU vs OU.Aren't the polls supposed to rank you for what you've done THIS SEASON?????
Yes -- and when your first game is against a I-AA, and you lose it, that loss is your entire season at that time.
USC's loss, while arguably just as embarassing, came after they also had won four games. You have to consider their whole season, not just yesterday's results.
If you removed from consideration every team with an embarassing loss, you wouldn't have enough teams to field a Top 25.OSWho?
Get over yourselves, please. You play in the BigTen, which should be named the BigJoke, a conference of patsies playing each other and the honorary BigJoke patsy, Notre Damn.
Play someone with a record THIS YEAR (as opposed to the memory of a record) and maybe you will deserve the ranking you have.Good columns and right on. USC has gotten more than one week of free pass this year. They are surely a talented team, but when calls are made for benching your starting quarterback to ignight some offense, there is a much deeper problem. That said, I was surprised that USC didn't retain a first place vote in at least one of the polls. We expect to see that.
Another thing I learned is that LSU is a football crazy place with a tremendous amount of energy and a serious team.Once again we're going to be force fed the merits of a Big 10 football team by the media. Ohio State has beat a 1-AA team to start the season and before they beat Purdue last night, the remainder of their opponents are a combined 9-14. They haven't played a team of any substance. Their offense is unimaginative and outdated. Three yards and a cloud of dust will get it done in the Big 10 but not the rest of the country. The Big 10 has lost the last four Rose Bowls they've participated in and do I need to remind everyone of how OSU fared in the BCS Championship? Don't put this team back in to the title game and ruin my Monday night.When this many Top-10 teams have lost, you have no choice but to move OSU up and give them some credit for their victories and consistancy. That however, doesn't mean they are powerful as a normal Top-5 team. OSU's game plan from 2002....dominating defense...decent offense....barely worked then, but probubly couldn't against LSU or Cal. That is Virginia Tech's style of play, and we all know what happened to them when they played the Tigers. That, and the fact that OSU is playing a washed-up Big10 scheduel, would just lead to OSU getting shot-down again in the National Championship. They're good....but not that complete yet.
oh, and thanks stewart for putting USC in their rightful place. There is more evidence against how overrated SC is this year than just the Stanford game.You are right on with several points. 2 QB systems are definitly going to be copied. Teams must diversify and keep up with these new strategies. But as my father taught me to drive, I would advise these coaches to always be in the offenseive mode even when the defense is on the field.
This season has also shown some great plays with some Offensive Coordinators pushing the bar. Keep it coming, just not from Pete Carroll...the country is tired of LA/Hollywood football players...let's get some attention back to the home grown goodness of the south!
How did USC stay in the top ten when there are some great teams out there...undefeated no doubt...working hard every Saturday...and they should be repsected with a decent ranking.I am a die hard LSU, but they still have a long road to hoe, including a mulligan for Florida, or Kentucky, or South Carolina in the SEC title game. If they go undefeated, then the NC game should be a cake walk.
As for everone on this Ohio State bandwagon... Who have they beat??? Washington (2-3) and Purdue (5-1)...
But who has Purdue beat??? Notre Dame (1-5), Minn (1-5), East Illnois (3-3), Central Michigan (3-3) and Toledo (2-4).
Taking a note from Jeff Foxxworthy... If you dont have an excellent looking defense on paper after these games, well you might be Michigan.
If the country wants the Big ten champ exposed in the title game again, then serve up some OSU TIGER BAIT!I will concede that OSU appears to be a dominant team right now that would put a good fight against everyone in the top 5 right now, but then again what do we have to base this information on? Their shellacking of Northwestern? The same team that lost to Duke? Or perhaps Purdue?
Let's talk about OSU after they've played Wisconsin, Illinois, Penn State, and Michigan. Even though I think none of these teams would provide the same kind of pressure that George, Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, or South Carolina would, at least they are head and shoulders above the likes of Akron.It appears that all of the fans with the one and two loss teams are hating on the BIG TEN(11). Lets not forget that the schedules are made years in advance.
Do you remember in early this decade the BIG TEN(11) beat up on each other and we did not have a chance to play in the title game considering we had about 4 to 5 teams able to bring home the top dogg crown.
Give credit where credit is due, OSU is a great team. we WIN the games we should, unlike your teams. we are not getting beat by mid or lower-tiered teams.
WE CAN HOLD OUR OWN!!!!Oklahoma lost a close game to unranked Colorado by a similar score and they were dropped to #10. Colorado may have a better tradition than Stanford, but over the last few years, they been about equally bad. Both are obviously improving this year. So it seems about right that the Trojans should receive the same punishment for a dumb loss. Plus the news about Booty's finger came out fairly quickly, probably helping SC. Plus, after Oregon, who would you but ahead of SC?"OSWho? Get over yourselves, please"
And the winner, for all-time most tiresome fans is... SEC. Y'all have gotten so boring with your litany about how great your conference is. Seriously. It borders on self-parody; you should hear yourselves. Here's a great idea: the might SEC should secede from the NCAA and declare itself an independent league. You can play each other over and over again, so as not to taint the legendary SEC with slow, inferior Yankee competition. Then you can elect Jeff Davis as your conference commissioner. It'll be 1861 all over again - sweet!!Georgia ran a 2 quartback offense for 3 years with David Greene and DJ Shockley. It worked pretty well in hindsight with all their wins those years, but the system received A LOT of criticism. Many felt it affects a QB's rhythm and confidence to constantly be taken in and out.Hey SEC morons (yes, you)...you all want to beat up on the Big Ten for not playing anybody...but who have the SEC teams beat besides each other??? What a joke way to build a conference up. Need I remind you that your best out of conference win was against Lousiville???
The (lack of) logic displayed by a great many of you makes me laugh...we beat up on each other, and we're good, so we have the best conference. Yet at the same time you cried that the Big Ten sucked and was overrated last year when OSU and UM were 1-2. And...we went 2-1 against you in bowl games. Yes, OSU got housed...get over it. Oh, and the same Tennesse team that crushed #12 Georgia got destroyed by Cal. Auburn, which beat UF (IN THE SWAMP) lost to USF (but USF sucks and is overrated, aren't they?).
LSU got lucky last night - admit it. That last 4th down was awfully close, and looked to be a very favorable spot to me. Nobody is invincible...just ask Miami in 2002.Good to see Daniel mentioned among the Heisman candidates. His Saturday performance was impressive. MU looks like a fun team to follow. Was the cheap shot at Daniel's coach necessary? I know you are trying to be clever, but that missed the mark.The only problem with USC losing is, once again, we may not get the PAC-10 vs. SEC matchup in the title game we should have gotten the last 3-4 years. The SEC teams may again not each other off and we may see the same out of the PAC-10.
How about the bridesmaid bowl, Ohio State vs. Oklahoma, as they once again slide to the top playing inferior teams.
Oh, and USC at #16-20 sounds about right. This is a true example of the flaws of the voting system. Makes me think back to the year Oklahoma dropped from #1 to #3 after getting blown out in the Little 10 title game back in 2003, but still ended up playing in the BCS title game.
Just when I want to get giddy about college football, I remember it's a beauty pageant, not just a competition. I just hope my LSU Tigers can run the table to make it, otherwise, who does Les Miles have to sleep with to get his team in the game?Amazing that the sub-headlines states USC has been overrated since the start of the season. Stewart, you're one of the ones who rated them so high week in and week out so enjoy the crow!!!"Tenets", not "tenants". Tenants are renters who live in houses.This post has been removed by the author.SC should be at 9 or 10 in the coaches poll. USC needs bench Booty and put in Sanchez when you still have games with #2 Cal and Arizona St. UCLA.
LSU will be ready for Auburn but first the focus will be on a very good UK team.Its not that the SEC has that much more talent than other conferences. I think its more how hard it is to play on opposing team's fields in the SEC. Every week you have to play in front the biggest stadiums with extremely loud fans. Many other teams have great fans, but nothing that compares to the difficulty of playing in front of 90,000+ drunk opposing fans every time you are on the road.
I think the LSU- VT may have been closer if it werent in Baton Rouge. On the same note, I think the Utenn-Cal game would have been much closer in Knoxville like last year. The talent levels arent that different, but environments are.PLEASE! Just say no to Ohio State. This Buckeye team would lose 3 to 5 games in the Big East, Pac 10, or SEC. For the love of college football, leave Ohio out of the BCS title game until the Big Ten begins to field speedy athletes rather than slow moving targets.Good insights and analysis, Stew. A bit late in the season, but that is why I like your writing . . . you notice things and change your mind.
I really don't think that Hester's 4th down gains resulted from "good spots." I think they resulted from playing with a lot of heart and determination. That's what came across to me as I watched how much he gained and how he did it.
So . . LSU "lucky?" Hmmm . . a great mind (presumably not a "moron") once said "Luck is when Preparation meets Opportunity."
I think LSU was prepared, and am happy they were given the opportunity. If that is "luck" then so be it.
A long way to go, and yes we need a playoff and need to stop the conference strength fixation that the BCS ranking system engenders . . . but what a great year for college football!
Geaux Tigres.Get over it guys..........there's alot of football left. USC will get beat again and OSU will choke before it's over with. Let's remember tht these are 19-21 year old kids that are not going to play at their top level every week. I am an OU fan, but I don't hear any of yo talking about the Cal Bears. Thoe biys look pretty good.SasQuatch - my only point was that nobody, not even LSU is invincible, and that they need to bring their "A" game every week. I personally think LSU is far and away the best team in the land, and am fearful of the fact that my Buckeyes may play them for the national championship if each team runs the table.
And, my Buckeyes were "lucky" all the way to the NC in 2002...lucky is not an insult...just how I saw it. Every team needs to get breaks to succeed.
I use moron to describe the fans who consistently argue like a brick wall that [insert conference here] is the best without any substantive evidence to back that up...similar to the "my dad can beat up your dad" argument. Unfortunately, at this moment, that typically is an SEC fan.
And Duh...we had Ted Ginn, Jr. last year...he fast enough for you? 56 days off and a freak injury = butt kicking. Not saying that they would have won (don't bother arguing about the damn game again), but I personally believe it would have been closer had the game been played shortly after the Big Ten season.Jim Harbaugh totally gamed Pete Carroll with his comments about Pete leaving and USC being the best college team "ever". Harbaugh's comments probably got under Pete's skin because he knew one was true (leaving) and the other was a mock praise that he couldn't dis' on. A tip of the hat to Capt Comeback...and I say that as a Cal alum.
SC is still SC however and a fired up, but flawed, SC is still scary.bgault,
Hey, peace. I actually agree with you on most everything you say. Believe it or not, I wanted to see Ginn play in that BCS championship game against the Gators. I think the game lost something when he was injured early. You are right about no one being invincible and needing luck . . no argument from me there! I think we both agree on the need to minimize talk of conference strength. That's just not productive. Finally, I think you might be selling your Buckeyes short . . from what I have seen of them they appear to be a formidable opponent.
Let's hope (for that is what it is right now) for a BCS game in January between two worthy teams. If it is my Tigers and your Bucks . . we'll both enjoy it regardless of outcome with mutual respect.
Best,
SasThe SEC is undefeated in BCS title games. No other conference can match that. Until an SEC team loses in a BCS title game, each BCS title game should include an SEC team as long as an SEC team is ranked in the top 5.I am tired of hearing how slow Ohio State's players are compared to the SEC. Yes they had one bad game against Florida last year, but get over it. OSU had their two recievers go in the first round of the NFL Draft, and we know that the NFL loves the "SLOW" players from the Big Ten. And if you look back at the drafts the past few years, OSU gets as many players drafted as anyone.Stewart, do you realize that OSU only has really 2 seniors that make an impact on Saturday this year? Assuming OSU does well the rest of the year, and stays healthy, is it me or will OSU's defense be downright scary assuming Animal doesn't defect to Sunday's a year early?
Also, someone in the previous post mentioned that Michigan is not the same as their grand daddy's team. While I realize many people in this poll have short memory's, recall that Michigan won a NC less than a decade ago.
Also, as someone else mentioned, the schedules are planned years in advance. While I agree the Big 10 is in a lul compared to where they were 5+ years ago, 5+ years ago the SEC wasn't as strong as it is now. These things are cyclic, and they change all the time. To make an argument that your conference is better is about akin to being a 5th grader on the playground. Any post that includes this kind of argument ought to be ignored just on this basis alone.
I agree with other posters that the Big 10 needs another game, either a championship game, or even better yet an additional game at the end of the season along with a championship game. 56 Days off against anyone is basically half a season.The SEC out of conference schedule is pathetic year in and year out. They never schedule the big games out of conference, then SEC fans claim that SEC teams beating up on each other proves how tough the SEC is. How can you refute that? Why have SEC fans been talking about the Florida-Ohio State game since it ended? Because deep in their hearts they didn't expect that to happen, admit it chumps. I hereby declare the Florida-OSU national championship of last year a fluke - end of argument."Until an SEC team loses in a BCS title game, each BCS title game should include an SEC team as long as an SEC team is ranked in the top 5."
Fabulous idea! The invincible SEC finally gets its due. Amen. Some more worthy ideas:
- Banish all slow Yankee teams from organized sports; they dilute the talent pool. How many slow Yankee teams have won anything in the last century? Uh, I don't know, but I'm drunk and the SEC is great, so I'm right.
- Extend this theory to all facets of life. Example: there's a wildly successful Republican in the White House now. Clearly, he is unchallengeable. Constitution be damned - make him king for life! The guy's never lost an election!
Etc., etc.
Tired of the SEC! Y'all are more boring than you could ever possibly imagine.Stewart does make some pretty good points, but you have to realize that both offensively and defensively USC has been decimated by injuries. When you have Herschel Dennis and Desmond Reed, not in the top 5 of the running back corps, taking a majority of the carries during the 3rd quarter because CJ Gable, Stafon Johnson, Chauncey Washington, Broderick Green, and Joe McKnight are suffering from various injuries, you know you might have a problem. Also, two of our starting linemen Kris O'Dowd, Chilo Rachal are out for a couple weeks after two of them collided on the first play at Washington last week, each spraining a knee. Now let's talk defense: starter Cary Harris out with a separated shoulder, backup (and kick returner) Vincent Joseph out with a bruised larynx, preseason all-American Brian Cushing STILL out... And now, starting QB John David Booty has a finger injury that makes him questionable for next week.
That all said, USC definitely came into the Stanford game expecting to win, as was evident when they ran out of the tunnel at the beginning of the game. Did I say "ran?" I meant lazily jogged to the sideline like nothing big was happening. 4 interceptions and a 24-23 loss to Stanford later, USC seems to be out of the national championship hunt...for now.
Is it just me or does it seem that USC always comes up big in the games that count (excluding Texas, but see: Michigan last year). I expect Cal, Oregon, and Arizona St. are incredibly excited at the possibility of knocking USC out of the Pac-10 top spot for the first time in 5 years, but I have a feeling that their expectations will be shattered because USC is going to come back from this loss and destroy Arizona next weekend.
Also, a side note: the UCLA-USC matchup this year? Don't be surprised if it's an absolute blowout as payback for last year's national title-spoiling loss.
Let me know what you think!I bet West Virgina and Auburn fans thought USF sucked, too, before they beat them. Just because you have never heard of them, doesn't mean they couldn't beat your team too. They still have one ranked team to beat this year (Cincinatti). If they win the rest of the way, they'll be in a BCS bowl game (though I doubt anyone will give them enough respect to put them in the championship game).Thanks for slipping a little Mizzou Tiger love into the "5 Things.." Chase has really energized this team, though this weekend's test in Norman will really be a good barometer. I hope all the T-sippers (i.e. Longhorn Fans to those who don't know the Aggie lingo) who are grumbling about Colt McCoy take a nice long look at who they could have had under center, and realize he would have only been a redshirt sophomore down in Austin!anyone want kevin cosgrove? please...I will throw in a brand new bed and pillows since he seems to sleep during the week and NEVER change anything week in or week out.In response to Joey K., who asked "Are there really 19 teams out there who could beat SC on a neutral field?" - the answer is YES, moron, because Stanford (not BC or Rutgers) beat them in the L.A. Coliseum. Come on up to Berkeley in November to see some more evidence.Ohio State has won more games and had more players drafted by the NFL than any other team in college footbal over the last ten years. OSU is one of the best programs in the country and can certainly be successful in any conference.Good article. I'm glad daniel is finally getting some recognition.Anyone who really understands collegiate athletics understands that the best team doesnt always win. George Mason would not have been in the final four, Villanova wouldnt have won a national title in basketball, and there are a bevy of football upsets just as big. Miami was unbeatable a couple years ago and OSU won, USC was unbeatable and Texas won, they happen. If games were 7 games series many might have had different outcomes. Boise State would not win a 7 game series against OU....hence the joy of college football. Bowls are a toss up with the length of time for injuries to heal, gadget plays to be implemented, more film to be watched. In season games are difficult because of the highs and lows of previous or upcoming weeks, injuries, and a lack of sufficient prep time. Stuff happens. Standford doesnt have to beat SC 4 times, only once, and thus any one game can be a convergence of things going wrong. Does that mean SC has less talent or isnt a good team...no, it means, like we are more comfortable in basketball with, matchups and timing cause issues. SC's secondary is banged up and had to defend big receivers in the red zone, and one night in October they came out on the losing end. For the record I am not an SC fan at all but my point in bringing these things up is to say no one knows for sure if SC deserves a 7 or 10 ranking but it doesnt matter. If they beat Cal, Oregon, ASU they deserve it, if not they dont. It works itself out, the polls are simply a weekly reflection of an American "what have you done for me lately" culture with a hint of nostalgia. That nostalgia many of you are complaining is what makes small programs train harder in the summer to take out a big name. It doesnt matter to Missouri that Nebraska is down this year, its still a year to say we beat Nebraska. Rightfully so and good for them. Everyone calm down and see what happens, there is only one poll at the end of the year that really matters and you can complain as much as you want then but until then it all plays out. Like Les Miles said this weekend, "there is no trophy for being number one right now." Nor does being 7 or 10 give you anything. Congrats to Stanford for keeping college football the greatest sport going due to upsets.i seem to remember an article before the season started that titled something like "USC Possibly Best Team Ever." Such a joke. LSU played a heart thumper last night, best game i have seen in a while. 5 for 5 on 4th downs, man if one of those didnt go LSU's way, game over; only because they went LSU's way - props to Miles (any other way miles would be getting bashed right now). I guess thats what it is all about though. Tigers have what it takes to go all the way, lets see if they prevail. GO TIGERS!!arguing conference superiority is for amateurs.
Notice that the coaches don't do it, not even in the SEC.LOL... "In one unthinkable evening, the very tenants that fostered the aura of invincibility that's surrounded Carroll's program..." it's TENETS, not TENANTS. Tenants are people renting a house :)Big 10 teams beat SEC teams every year in January, including 2-1 last year. Which means the Big 10 is obviously just too tough for the SEC, and that Big 10 teams just beat each other up every year in conference, otherwise half the league would be elgible for the national title game. Remember when West Virginia destroyed Georgia in Atlanta a couple years ago? That proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that the SEC is a joke and just too darn slow for the Big East. Or when Nebraska hung 60 on Florida in '95? The SEC should've been banned from Division I for a decade after that, because they obviously couldn't play with the faster, more athletic players from up north.To those that say the Big 10 is SLOW! I would take OSU's players in track meet with any other team. See the problem is it's not a track meet, it's a football game. Speed is important, but it's not everything. I repeat it is not EVERYTHING! OSU got out played last year, you can't deny that, but to think that that will happen again is naive. It may or it may not but to write them off based on their play on-field this year is ignorant. Yes they have yet to be challenged but they have also taken care of business all year, so give them credit. Purdue was suppossed to be a test and it wasn't even close.Big Ten = lumbering and slowHey hey, all you fools that are hating on the SEC need to chill out. For one thing we won the NC last year and for that we get bragging rights period. Until you prove us wrong all your arguments are irrelevant... we still won the NC. It makes no difference that the big ten went 2-1 last year against the SEC. We still have the NC, that means we have the BEST conference in America last year and UNTIL you prove US wrong YOU are going to have to deal with us SEC fans gloating over this.USC has been a media darling the past few years...it's not surprise that they didn't drop further...but it really shows how useless polls are (and how needed a playoff is). The voters dropped USC as if they'd lost to Oregon or Cal...not to a 41 point underdog at home. Incredible! And the SIDs that vote in the "coach's" poll are worthless. If Michigan dropped all the way out of the polls (as they should have), then USC should at least have fallen to the 14-15 range. Still top 10?!?!?!If this was a non-ranked SEC team beating LSU and not standford beating USC the media would be saying how tough the SEC is! GO PAC-10!!If this was a non-ranked SEC team beating LSU and not standford beating USC the media would be saying how tough the SEC is! GO PAC-10!!"Everyone calm down and see what happens, there is only one poll at the end of the year that really matters and you can complain as much as you want then but until then it all plays out."
Yeah... except the problem with this is the same problem as the preseason rankings. Sure, in and of themselves they are worthless, but they establish precedent and inertia.
If a team like South Florida or Cincinnati loses even once, even if they win out thereafter you can forget about them ever rising to anywhere near USC's one-loss ranking.
But that's okay, because the real purpose of the rankings is to facilitate better bowl games, by which we mean, "more revenue." And big bowl games would be much happier to see even a slipshod USC than South Florida, regardless of their relative strengths.arguing conference superiority is for amateurs.
Notice that the coaches don't do it, not even in the SEC.
You must be kidding me. Does anyone remember what Les Miles said about the SEC and the Pac-10 at the beginning of the year…?It's funny how many non-SEC bloggers complain about the pride that we SEC fans have in our conference. The argument about what conference is the best is fun. If you don't like it, then skip over any posts bearing the letters S-E-C. Oh I forgot, it wouldn't be much of a blog without mentioning the SEC.
If anyone think that the SEC isn't strong, then explain why the coaches, as well as the sports writers, feel it necessary to include 7 SEC teams in the polls. Before you argue that the SEC is full of media darlings, just remember that not all of the coaches voting are from the SEC.
Stew, I think you are one of the best sports writer out now, but even you are throwing in your sly remarks and showing your bias against the SEC in some of your colums. Don't worry, it's not enough to keep me from reading the Mailbag, though. Keep up the good work.To all those people who think that the Big 10 or PAC 10 is tougher then the SEC, let's think about this. Michigan lost to App. St. USC lost to Stanford. Can you seriously argue about how tough your conference is when you lose to teams like this. This is basically the same Michigan team that barely lost to "the Great Ohio State Team" from last year. Yea the same Ohio State team that got their asses whipped 41-14 in Glendale last year. And no, that wasn't a fluke. That was a joke that a team as pathetic as Ohio State actually got to play a real team from a real conference. I really hope that Ohio State makes it to NC game again so they can get mauled by LSU.Are you Big 10 retards that stupid. Granted I am a Tiger fan from way back and I bleed purple and gold you must see that the Big 10 is the most overrated conference in the nation. A team like OSU gets destroyed by UF last year they still believe that they are the best. Give me a break. OSU plays maby one or two decient teams the entire year and they walk into a BCS or national title game. Now to the SEC, we are the best conference in college football hands down . Any team any week including my Tigers can be picked off or come close to being picked off. (Florida vs. Old Miss) So in closing quit whining about the Big 10 there not even on the same level as the SEC or as bad as I hate to say it the PAC 10 because lets face it USC is overated but there are so many other talented teams in the Pac 10 THIS YEAR.
GEAUX TIGERS TIGER BAIT TIGER BAIT TIGER BAIT TIGER BAIT!!!!!!!"USC lost to Stanford. Can you seriously argue about how tough your conference is when you lose to teams like this."
Um, little bit of sports trivia: Stanford is in USC's conference. So, yes, the fact that the worst team can knock off the best team could be taken as evidence that the Pac-10 is a tough conference.
Mind you, I think Stanford is a bad team and USC lost a game they shouldn't have, partly due to injury. But your logic still makes no sense.I have zero quarrel with the SEC. But, last time I checked, I rooted for a team, not a conference. Y'all have gotten so into the mightiness of the SEC - and granted, you're on a fine run - but, still. It's a little creepy how Obsessed you are - with a capital "O" - about the supremacy of your conference.I love that people still to resort to the "Big Ten has no speed" argument. True, some Big Ten teams still recruit big, corn-fed O-Lineman and pay the price for it when they meet up with some fast D-Ends (see OSU-UF last January), but this supposed slowness at the skill positions is greatly exaggerated. In the past decade, OSU has regularly snagged WRs, Backs, and DBs from SEC country and Texas to complement the speedy home-grown guys. The people that continue to rely on this argument obviously don't ever switch from CBS to watch any non-SEC games. This is getting as old as the whole East Coast Bias thing that was all the rage a couple years ago.
I respect the SEC; it's a good conference and yes, the past few years, deeper than the Big Ten, but let's not get carried away - there are still a lot of weak teams in the SEC too (I saw them more than I would have liked while I was stuck working in Alabama all the past two months) and if you look it up, I think you would find that the SEC typically schedules more I-AAs and fewer strong out-of-conference opponents than the Big Ten, Big XII, or Pac 10. Lets not forget that OSU had a home-and-home with Texas the past two years and has USC in '08/'09, followed by Miami and Oklahoma. Outside of LSU, you're not seeing SEC teams scheduling those marquee games (and don't give me Florida and Alabama playing FSU - that program is quickly falling off the map).
Yeah, Florida thumped the Bucks pretty good last year, but it wasn't so long ago that the Gators were on the wrong end of one of those (has anyone tackled Tommie Frazier yet???). I'm not ready to punch OSU's ticket to New Orleans or even push them past Cal to Number 2 just yet, but watching how solid this defense is and seeing some developing maturity on offense, I wouldn't be so quick to write off the Bucks.I, like many other bloggers and Stew, find it hard to believe that USC is still in the top 10. Not because they lost to Stanford, but because they have not been playing like the SC of yesteryear (or any other year of their dominance for that matter). Although, I'm an SEC fan, I still won't sleep on them. Carrol is an outstanding coach and he and this team will rebound; however, they are not deserving of a #7 spot (at least not for this week).
And for those who keep comparing a loss to Auburn with that of a loss to the likes of App State or Stanford, you don't know football. Auburn can beat at least 12 of the teams listed above it. It may lose to teams it should beat, but check their resume when it come to ranked teams. I wouldn't sleep on them if I were one of those ranked teams.It is pretty obvious to me that Stewart Mandel loathes USC and the Pac-10 conference. It is also apparent that he loves LSU and the SEC. If Florida wouldn't have turned the ball over late and had actually beaten LSU then wouldn't Mandel still have ranked the Tigers in the top 10? (more likely the top 5) Yet Florida lost to Auburn, which lost to Tennessee who got obliterated by Cal at the beginning of the season. I still think that the Pac-10 is stronger than most give them credit for being. It was a huge upset that Stanford knocked off USC, especially at the Coliseum, but it was by one point, it was after 4 turnovers and it was in the ferociously competitive Pac-10. USC is easily still one of the best 10, and as the coaches agree, one of the best 7. I'd pay to see USF or BC play USC next week. And I'd laugh when the Trojans triumphed.
After all this is said and done only one thing really matters: the rankings are never accurate until the end of the season when all games have been played and the Bowls remain. And even then its all speculative as to who has a better team.
We need a playoff system.Until there is a playoff, Div I football will be just like figure skating: a panel of judges decides who is best.This post has been removed by the author.Well at least we got one thing at Nebraska settled on Saturday. We can now all agree upon new tunnel walk music - "I will be home for Christmas".
I guess the AD missed the mark when he referenced a (paraphrase) "A trend towards medocrity". Hell, I would settle for medocrity at this point.
I guess all the flashy recruiting classes and JC transfers don't make a team, but rather coaching and chemistry make a team. I don't recall many of Osborne or Solich's classes coming in anywhere above 15 or so, but at least they created football players and a team from the raw talent rather than expect it to land at their doorstep. Speaking of doors - Cosgrove - don't let the former hit you on the way out."It makes no difference that the big ten went 2-1 last year against the SEC. We still have the NC, that means we have the BEST conference in America"
ARE YOU SERIOUS???
Look you SEC 'tards, that logic makes no sense. You lose two out of three games to the Big Ten last year, but pick the one game you won to say "we're the best?"
You can't show a conference's superiority by saying "the bottom team could beat the top team." That's stupid. The only way to see which conference is "better" is to play games outside your conference. And, in 2007, the SEC blows chunks when it comes to out of conference games.
Should Auburn get a "do over" because USF wasn't ranked when they played? Or how about Tennessee because it was the first game of the season? 'Bama wasn't feeling good when they lost to an FSU team who have been terrible for like the last decade? Give me a break.Oh, gawd.
The football season is not about conferences. I know that the current BCS system emphasizes strength of competition in its computer rankings and all that . . . which leads to this debate . . but hey.
The football season is about individual teams. If we have learned anything from this season, it is that "anybody can pretty much hold up against anybody" despite rankings, conference, or our opinions.
Win it on the field. That takes a team (not a conference, or a poll). That takes players doing their best to execute a game plan or improvising when a particular play call on offense or defense seems inappropriate. That's excellence.
We need a rational playoff system to allay all this "my conference is best" crap.
Support your team and your players . . in good times and bad . . but puhleeze stop the conference crap!
(LSU and WA Husky fan).Posted: 9:07 PM by getz011
"OSWho? Get over yourselves, please"
And the winner, for all-time most tiresome fans is... SEC.
Hmmm, why don't you go back and the read the post Getz? You obviously don't getz it Getz.
The only conference mentioned was the BigJoke, which you are an obsessed defender of. My post had nothing to do with any conference but yours. Like many other football fans I am tired of 40+ years of national TV shoving your conference's supposed superiority down my throat.
As for the Luckeyes beating Miami several years ago, the score favored your team, but I watched that game, and Miami beat OSWho but for some truly terrible calls made by the officials. And before you (erroneously) label me a 'Canes fan, I can stand them even less than I can stand the Luckeyes. Your one recent national champsionship came on completely incompetent officiating.
When OSWho beats someone, anyone, with a decent record (who isn't part of the BigJoke), they might be worthy of a good ranking. LSU and USF have done it - OSWho has not. USF should be ranked higher than the Luckeyes on the basis of schedule so far.
Yeah. Tough schedule. Youngstown State and Akron. Excuse me while I fall over laughing.kev79:
"It is pretty obvious to me that Stewart Mandel loathes USC and the Pac-10 conference. It is also apparent that he loves LSU and the SEC."
Well, I'm a Pac-10 fan, and it is pretty obvious to me that you're talking nonsense. It is also apparent that you're an idiot. Just off the top of my head, Stewart voted for Cal over Texas in 2004 and has voted USC in the top 2 all season, despite them looking shaky more than once; meanwhile, he makes fun of LSU fans who say that USC didn't win a share of the championship in '03. Oh my God, I guess I'm biased against USC and for Stewart Mandel!
"If Florida wouldn't have turned the ball over late and had actually beaten LSU then wouldn't Mandel still have ranked the Tigers in the top 10?"
In that case, LSU would have lost to Florida, a top-20 team and the reigning National Champions. USC lost to Stanford.
"[The USC loss] was by one point,"
Yes--to STANFORD. USC was supposed to win by more than forty points. If USC won by one point, they still should have dropped in the rankings.
"it was after 4 turnovers,"
How is this possibly an argument in USC's favor? Turnovers are part of what makes a team less good than another team. That's like saying, "The Angels (or whoever) lost to the Red Sox, but only because they made so many errors."
It's good to know that us Pac-10 fans can be just as embarrassing as SEC fans can be…"It's good to know that us Pac-10 fans can be just as embarrassing as SEC fans can be…"
tomemos, your post was not embarrassing, either to yourself or others.
It was wise.anyone using 'speed' as an argument is just a puppet spewing media garbage when comparing the major conferences.
ohio state has been the second best program in the last 5 years after USC. one championship bcs finish and 3 other bcs wins.
florida has won their last two bowls but dropped three in a row before that, including losses to michigan and iowa.Seriously, how did "tenants" get past the editor?I'm a huge Cal fan and until this summer could care less about the SEC as a whole. But thanks to Les Miles comments, I now hate the SEC and their drunk stupid fans.
However, after saying that, I'm kinda hoping Cal loses one game (but not to U$C) and goes to the Rose Bowl and not the NC, because LSU's D would slow down our unstoppable O and our D would bend and probably break (like what was about to happen against Oregon.)
I think it's pretty obvious that LSU is by far the best team this season, however, I would say the Pac-10 is probably the tougher conference. Vandy, Ole Miss, Miss St., Alabama, Georgia, and Tenn, are not very good but LSU, Flordia and Auburn are. Cal, Oregon, Arizona State and USC are very good and the bottom third (Stanford, Arizona, Oregon State and Washington State) are on the same level as your bottom third.
To sum it up, your number 1 team is the best, no question. But overall conference strength this year has to go to the Pac-10.I saw that Alabama, one of the 9 or 10 SEC juggernauts, barely squeaked by Houston on the last play at home one week after losing to Florida State. That's a strong conference you've got there, top to bottom, no doubt. And Kentucky beat Louisville. Color Big 10 and Pac 10 country impressed.
Seriously, you have two great teams and then a bunch of mediocre and bad teams. Face it.USC lost to Stanfurd! What an embarassment! But waitaminit...give the Cardinal some credit. They may be 2-3, but all three losses have been to top 25 teams. That means a Stanford loss was one of the top headlines on three weekends coming into the USC game and so everyone knew how bad the Cardinal is. But they seem to have more in them than some folks were giving them credit for.There's no way USC should still be in the Top 10, and this is coming from an unabashed USC fan.
They do have a a lot of talent. But, so what? There are those intagibles - experience, composure, chemistry that they are missing. A lot of their blue chippers haven't stepped up.
I know the rest of the country was/is sick of USC and sick of the media's constant obsession with them for the past 4 years. But, up until now, it was deserved, even if it was overdone.
But now is the real litmus test for Carroll and USC. Pete made USC back into a national power - quickly. Fans got spoiled and it looks like the program got complacent. If USC can win another NC in the next 2 to 5 years, that will really show something. The rise is the easiest part. Staying there is next to impossible. Rising again is very impressive.
Honestly, though I'd like to see it, It will be a nightmare for the pollsters if USC wins out (which at this point I don't see happening). 11-1 with road wins over Cal, Oregon, and ASU. They'd be in the NC picture, which might give the program another sense of false security. I think USC needs to be humbled. But, obviously I'll take it if fit happens, which it probably won't.
Also, start Sanchez, and rehire Norm Chow (doubt he' come back though). If Carroll leaves for the NFL, hire Chow as the Coach. The coaching has been suspect this year.Heh. I just noticed that Stanford actually received a few votes in both polls. Nowhere near the amount to get them even close to being ranked, but still it is amusing (and perhaps not completely crazy) that a few folks figured that knocking off USC was enough to deserve a top-25 rating.
Given that Stanford's losses so far have come against pretty strong competition (including the two Pac-10 leaders), it will be interesting to see where the team comes down against 3-3 TCU, 2-4 Arizona, 3-3 Oregon State, 2-3 Washington, 2-4 Washington State... I'm not looking for miracles here but finishing even .500 would be a heckuva turnaround after last year's fiasco.Stanfurd finishing .500 is not out of the question. They could beat TCU and Notre Dame putting them at 4-2. They will lose to Cal (sorry, I'm a huge Cal fan). They would need to win 2 of 4 against Washington, Washington State, Arizona and Oregon State. After beating USC on the road any of those games are winnable. That being said, I do not see them beating TCU and they may win one of those 4 games, if they are lucky. However, how great would it be to see Stanfurd beat Notre Dame? As much as Stanfurd disguts me (and it hurt me last night to root for them), I'd love to see them beat Notre Dame.I love how everyone is over-looking Cal. Don't forget they are the current #2 team in the nation, and if they win out, it will stay that way. Its a shame the nc game will be in New Orleans, I dont see any team knocking off LSU in what would essentially be a home game. Hopfully someone in the superiortogod SEC can knock LSU off. I would love to see a Cal-OSU national championship...
GO BEARS!! Desean Jackson = heisman
Les Miles blowsAn OSU-Cal NC game! I can already hear the cries of injustice from SEC fans. lloyd- you must have forgotten the "SEC gets an automatic birth in the national championship for being God's gift to college football" argument...Ohio State is 4-1 in BCS bowls. We've had the most players drafted into the NFL in the last decade. Enough said.Short and sweet about Ohio State:
They havent beaten anyone of note yet. TRUE
THey have not lost. TRUE
Alot of teams that are supposedly better than OSU losing to horrible teams? TRUE
Is Ohio State at least taking care of business by beating teams they SHOULD? TRUE
So why all the hate? at least they are doing what they should be and not blowing games to Stanford, App. St., Auburn, and Colorado.Big 10 was 2-1 against the SEC in bowl games last year. As usual SEC fans only see what they want to see.Can we just have a national championship playoff and settle all this on the field? Thanks to CBS, ABC, FOX and NBC for providing the money to the greedy college presidents that makes a playoff impossible."Apparently, you can suffer the biggest upset in the history of the sport (according to Vegas) and barely pay a price if you've won recent national championships and/or the game was shown on Versus (so no one saw it)." "SI.com"
This comment is absolutely hilarious...how is USC still in the top ten??? This year will be considered debacles for two storied programs; Notre Dame and USC... and I am tired of hearing of the "success" of Amare Stoudemire's microfracture knee surgery.I couldn't count the times during this year's playoffs where the "it would have been a dunk" comment came up... The Amare Stoudemire that was SIMPLY abused by Tim Duncan in this year's playoffs is nowhere near the Amare Stoudemire that put op 37 points a game on TIM DUNCAN in the 2005 playoffs. It is sad.. we were robbed of watching one of the GREATS..simple is that... BE AWARE 72 Dolphins your champagne tipping days are numbered...Pats in 07: Super Bowl MVP Randy Moss... I'm OutThis post has been removed by the author.Oh give me and everyone else in this country a break. IT'S COLLEGE STUDENTS.
USC, the media's lover boy, loses one game like anyone else could on any given Sunday and now they are the red-headed abused step children.
No, they don't deserve a top 10 spot, but then again AP shouldn't even HAVE a poll, as their track record has been OH-SO-STELLAR.
Save the highly-critical tongue lashing, and stress, for the paid athletes, and let the students go to class.kev79,
"Yet Florida lost to Auburn, which lost to Tennessee who got obliterated by Cal at the beginning of the season."
Auburn did not loose to Tennessee. They haven't played them since 2004. The last two games (2003 and 2004) were won by Auburn. It is always a good idea to check your facts before using them to make a point. It invalidates your argument when your facts aren't correct.
On to USC. Stu does seem to have a point in that when Michigan lost to App. St. they were knocked out of the rankings. But USC looses to Stanford and they don't even drop out of the top ten! Double standards or bias? Yea, I know later in the season....blah, blah, blah!Why is there OSU hate? Because everyone seems to have forgotten just how overrated the Big-10 is (see: last year's bowl games), and now OSU is in danger of jumping Cal in the polls. Just watch. A close Cal win or a big OSU blowout of another crappy Big-10 Team, and OSU will be #2.
Nevermind that Cal has beaten a decent Tennessee team AND an excellent Oregon team AT Oregon. They should be miles ahead of OSU and their one ranked opponent (#24 Purdue, who did an excellent job scheduling that 5-0 start of theirs).
Ohio hasn't beaten a single good team, and none of their opponents have even PLAYED a good team. Cal's opponents have laid massive beatdowns on Michigan (Oregon) and Georgia (Tennessee).
In conclusion, anyone who voted OSU ahead of Cal is a moron.I know there aren't more than six other teams in the country I would rather have my team play next Saturday. Personally I would have them higher, and I hate USC.My current top 25
1 LSU
2 Cal
3 Boston College
4 Ohio State
5 Missouri
6 S. Florida
7 Arizona St.
8 S. Carolina
9 Illinois
10 Oklahoma
11 Oregon
12 Kansas
13 USC
14 Cincinnati
15 Hawaii
16 Va Tech
17 UConn
18 West Virginia
19 Wisconsin
20 Florida St.
21 Florida
22 Colorado
23 Michigan
24 Tennessee
25 GeorgiaAgree with 1 point, disagree with another.
USC should have dropped out of the Top Ten, at least! The Elo-Chess computer (a "non-biased" element of the BCS, along with 5 others) ranked USC #26 after this loss! I think #15-16, would be more appropriate.
Ohio State's Defense #2 Total Defense?
Let's examine the facts: LSU (#1 Total Defense) has garnered our stats against #9 V. Tech, #9 Florida, & #12 S. Carolina (ranking @ game-time). We have beaten 3 Top-12 teams, no other team can make that statement! Our next game is against #18 Kentucky.
OSU (#2 Total Defense) has played Youngstown State, Akron, Washington, Northwestern (lost to Duke!), Minnesota (only win, Miami of Ohio), and #20th ranked Purdue, next opponent Kent State, brutual schedule, I know! It's true SEC fans, I couldn't make-up a schedule like this! Stats, unfortunately, don't always give all the details, be realistic!
Take, for example, their win at Purdue against the "Nations #1 offense." Here is the Purdue schedule, it is even easier than OSU's; if that is even humanly possible. Get this: Toledo, Eastern Illinois, Central Michigan, Minnesota, & Notre Dame (no comment necessary), again I am not making up this schedule!! Five of these teams couldn't move the football against TALL GRASS, and you want to boast about OSU's defensive stats...your kidding, right? Let's not let skewed stats cloud our perception of which defense deserves to be ranked!
Need I remind the fans how far the Buckeye's defensive ranking's fell after the National Championship, after they played Florida? Urban Meyers called off the dogs during the third quarter to "save face" for the Buckeyes. Everyone was watching, remember?
For the 80th year in a row, the only difficult game on OSU's schedule is Michigan which can't beat a 1-AA team w/speed. So really, if you want to talk Horse-sh*t...take it to the Horse Shoe!! Because the SEC fan's know our football!!I've a die-hard Cal fan, born in Michigan and now living in the Orange Nation. But I still have to agree that OSU is a team to watch. Cal's offense and special teams are explosive, but their D (giving up nearly 500 yards to Oregon) is cause for concern; similarly, OSU's smack-down of 500-yard-plus-per-game Purdue is the reason they're in the hunt for another shot at the NC.
As for the SEC braggarts who want to denounce 'sc because they lost to leland stanfurd junior u., maybe they should consider the counterfactual: maybe the bottom half of the PAC-10 is pretty tough too.Like I said Mickey...Head to head = Big 10 2-1. Get over yourselves already.I think the important thing to remember is that we're only midway through the season and these rankings don't mean a thing. When I first looked at the new top 25, it was probably the strangest one I had ever seen. I go to Florida State and even I'm a little surprised we cracked the Top 25; not sure we're all that deserving.
I'm willing to bet, though, that half the teams that are in the Top 25 right now won't even be there at the end of the season, and probably half of the current Top 10 won't be in the Top 10 will be there at season's end.last week's #2, #5, #8 and #12 all lost
#5 loses to an unranked team( previously 4-1) on the road and drops 14 spots
#8 loses to #11(4-1 only loss at #1) on the road and drops 9 spots
#12 loses an unranked team(2-2) on the road to drops 12 spots
#2 loses to an unranked team(1-3) at home and only drops 8 places,
what gives here! why did USC fall the LEAST. not only was USC the highest ranked to lose, they also lost to the least impressive team, and were AT HOMEDoug what an absolute pathetic attempt at a rebuttal. You obviously have no FACTS that you can use; so you revert to: "My Daddy can beat up your Daddy...but not this year," cliche. If OSU does get to the NC Game in New Orleans, and most pundits feel OSU has the best chance due to their aforementioned "soft" schedule, we shall see. I just hope that OSU can put up a better effort than last year, so that they won't do additional damage an already fragile Big Ten reputation!Mickey says..."Doug what an absolute pathetic attempt at a rebuttal. You obviously have no FACTS that you can use;"
One of us has posted FACT, the other has posted bluster. That is all.Last year Ark lost to USC and Wisconson and won the West. TN lost to Penn State. Vandy lost to Mich. This year Ala lost to FSU. Auburn lost to USF. TN lost to CAL. Your record against the Big10 the last few years is .500. You have dropped 4 straight to USC. Your last 9 games against the Big East you won ONE. I'm not saying the SEC is bad. Just start winning a few NonCon games before you start bragging. I mean you're 1-8 versus the BigLeast. I got one thing to say to you whiny UT fans. Charles Woodsen.How soon people forget. Schedules are made years in advance. Also, OSU scheduled Texas the last two years and USC the next two years. I would love to see an SEC team schedule out of conference games that tough. OSU played the toughest schedule by far last year.Mandel's comment about Gary Pinkel screwing up the Missouri program evidences a lack of understanding about the program.
Missouri has not played in a January 1st bowl game since the 1970 Orange Bowl.
That fact alone shows the Missouri bowl got screwed up long before Gary Pinkel arrived in Columbia.
Mandel you owe Pinkel an apology for your snide remark.I find it amazing that you question USC's current ranking of #7 but you fail to make any reference to Florida's ranking. Florida is the only 4-2 in the top 20. What a joke!! Not only are the polls flawed but so is the commentary posted from Mr. Mandel.Thanks to Mr Stewart for being -- as far as I know -- the first person to questions USC's #7 Coaches rank and using the 'double-s' [standard] word in regards to Michigan's free-fall earlier the season.
Unless the coaches revise downward next week, the USC is far far from being out of the NC chase. If they beat Cal -- and they will -- they're likely to be ahead of a single-loss Oklahoma, South Carolina (loss to LSU), or even LSU (if they lose to Flo or SoCar in the SEC championship)...
They're the Yankees. All the talent in the world, and no chemistry. Should be below #15.Od, says Florida at 4-2 is overrated. At #20? I don't think any team in the country -- including #1 LSU -- wants to play Florida (again) this season. They're the best two-loss team after six weeks in recent memory..."The PAC10 is the best conference" argument lost serious credibility when UCLA lost to Notre Dame by 14 points at home.
Also, why is everyone claiming that the SEC doesn't schedule anyone out of conference? So far this year, SEC temas have played out of conference games with: Virginia Tech, Louisville, South Florida, Kansas State, Florida State, Missouri, California, and Oklahoma State. Also, in upcoming weeks, SEC teams will play: Florida State again, West Virginia, Wake Forest, and Clemson. Those are pretty tough out of conference games if you ask me.two comments....first, WVU fans did not and have not underestimated USF at any point. We knew that was going to be a tough win for us to get, if anyone matches up speed for speed in the big east, it's USF. They have given WVU a game since entering the league three years ago.
Second, I think what we see in the polls in the obvious west coast bias that many of us on the east coast have been preaching about for years....i think it is painfully obvious that pollsters sleep in on saturdays well into the afternoon to stay up and watch the west coast teams, bypassing east coast teams games, and now we see the true result.......
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@Posted: 9:15 AM by David C
"In conclusion, anyone who voted OSU ahead of Cal is a moron."
i've seen cal play twice, live. their D is very suspect and they've won some of those games with a lot of help from the opponent. oregon gave that game away.
check out Florida's bowl history from the past 5 years. 2-3. two of those losses were to BigTen teams. is the SEC all so special now??? i'm not saying one conference is better than the other but the SEC fans obvious bias is absurd and laughable.
take any football season and you can find a flaw in a conference but to apply that across the board to the short or long term history of college football is going to show your ignorance.
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.here i am peacefully reading this blog when i see some complete idiot refer to michigan and usc together as "media darlings." are u kidding me???? michigan and every other big ten school are perenially looked down upon by the national media. honestly it's such an insane lovefest for the sec and pac 10 that it makes me sick. i'd have thought a buckeyes fan, a fellow member of the big 10, would have understood this. osu and michigan are in the same boatSo, let me get this right... USC can lose to an unranked oppnent at home as a 40 point favorite and drop to 10th, while Wisconsin loses on the road, to a team now ranked, as an underdog and falls 14 spots? And a week after losing to unranked Colorado, Oklahoma is back in the top 5? Who is doing this? College Football's credibility is down the tubes if this is what we are expected to believe. Can we please not let the coaches vote until the middle of the season. This has become a joke.SasQuatch:
I appreciate your comments as you seem to be a pretty thoughtful person, only I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for the playground-level "conference strength" postings to end. Unfortunately, until there's an "ignore" feature on a blog one simply has to gloss over the more idiotic postings (e.g., "for the past 80 years OSU's only tough game has been Michigan", etc.). Some of these posters seem to think that college football began and will end with their conference, and unfortunately they don't seem to have the self-awareness to see how embarrassing and pathetic these comments are (although other posters have tried to tell them). I have to believe that many of these comments are simply to garner a reaction since I find it unlikely that the posters could actually be that stupid, but I could certainly be wrong about that.
By the way, even though we're having a down year, I still love my Big 10 conference and consider it the best out there for many reasons, but I also appreciate and respect that others feel the same way about their own conferences. There is simply NO, repeat NO, conclusive evidence that any conference is "better" than another (except for some yearly/short-term variation), even though some of the "geniuses" posting have what they believe to be irrefutable arguments to the contrary...so play 'em on the field.
In the meantime, I'll continue to try to gloss over the space-wasting idiotic comments, and wish that some of these posters would try typing with BOTH hands on the keyboard, if you know what I mean.Again, this basically shows that the voters really don't know anything, and that they only jump on a bandwagon AFTER something happens. I would just love to read Stuart Mandell write that we could "see this coming" (USC's demise) BEFORE it actually happens.
According to the voters, Louisville was a top-10 team, as was Michigan, as was Georgia, as was UCLA (my favorite was Mandell writing a few weeks ago after they barely held on to beat BYU that he should have voted UCLA higher because they had such a great defense--which actually gave up nearly twice as many yards and first downs as their offense had)--Wow, Stuart--you really seem to know what you're talking about . . .
Simply put, the voting system is ludicrous, especially when you have morons such as Mandell making the calls.Honestly. As a Buckeye fan, I used to be embarrassed by the behavior of some of my fellow Buckeyes on discussion boards, call-in shows, etc.
So thank you, SEC fans, for removing from us and now proudly wearing the mantle of "World's Most Annoying Fans." Hey, you won another championship! In fact, there's really no close second anymore.
(Personally, I think you're still just a little sore over that little Civil War fiasco.)Best conference blah blah blah. Agree with everyone who identifies that conference strength is very cyclical.
LSU fan and I love the SEC. But I love it for the gameday experience, not because we're the "best conference ever".
As for out-of-conference scheduling, I agree that the SEC falls short here. Here's an idea I'd love to see pursued: Have the Big Ten (11) and SEC agree to a yearly round robin - seeding the perennial top 6 in each conference vs. each other on a rotating basis, and same with the bottom teams (until ND gets off its high horse and joins the Big 10 - you can insert the Mississippi schools on a rotating basis). Would be great entertainment for all of college football fandom.
As for polling and strength, having just played the Gators, I will happily put them up against anyone ranked in the top 25, home or away. And as I won't no more of them for the rest of this year, I am officially a Tennessee fan for the balance of 2007 (until early December of course)."So far this year, SEC temas have played out of conference games with: Virginia Tech, Louisville, South Florida, Kansas State, Florida State, Missouri, California, and Oklahoma State. Those are pretty tough out of conference games if you ask me."
Here's the problem with that logic - the SEC is 4-4 in those games, which doesn't exactly make the average fan scream that the SEC is far superior to the other conferences.
And for those that want to focues on individual teams...here's the deal. As long as a win against a top five Wisconsin team by Illinois can have a real effect on whether the Buckeyes (or some other Big Ten team) can play in the NC game (for perceived weakness of schedule), then we're going to have to argue strength of conference too.
The real enemy here is the BCS system, and the obvious bias of coaches (and some media) who hang onto notions that their favorite team from childhood still remain an elite team.It is hilarious that fans from all different conferences can read the same column and conclude and all come to the same conclusion: this guy is infatuated with (insert rival team here) and has a vendetta against (insert reader's team's conference here).
This year it's the Pac 10 and SEC fans that are feeling slighted; last year it was my Big Ten bretheren feeling underappreciated. Relax - take the "this week's observations" column for what it is - Mandel's observations from this week. He's not out to get you.
And please, can we abolish the my team beat your team which beat that team...argument? Let's just accept that in this day and age, most any team is capable of giving a traditional power a run for their money. I mean, if we use this logic, then since Wofford beat App. State by 11 and Michigan beat ND 38-0, then Wofford would beat the Irish 49-0...wait, maybe that's not so unrealistic.
This will never end. And no, a playoff will not magically solve everything - people will be upset about the seeding process; people will be upset about the matchups; people from the South will be upset if an SEC team does not get automatic byes all the way into the championship game. Why don't we just scrap the whole thing and go back to the traditional bowl alliances and if we end up with multiple champions, settle it the old fashioned way - argue about it until the end of time.
I would like to see ALL CONFERENCES start manning up and scheduling more big time out of conference games though. As college football fans first and foremost, matchups like Texas-Ohio State, Virginia Tech-LSU, and Miami-Oklahoma benefit us all. I would much rather test our mettle and risk an early season loss against Texas or USC than beat up on the likes of Youngstown State and Akron year after year.This love fest that the SEC has with itself is frankly getting old. Yes, OSU was embarrassed in last year's title game. But no one is stopping to consider that ANY Team ( yes even almighty SEC teams) would not be sharp after a 51 day lay off. Did OSU look slow in the title game? yes. But there's a BIG difference between being slow (talent wise) and reacting slowly due to not having played a live game in 51 days. Practice speed is not equal to game speed.
Furthermore, all of you saying OSU didn't play anyone this season... who did Florida play? FAU, Troy, Western Kentucky? FSU is comprable to Washington. Tennessee got throttled by Cal. At least LSU played someone this year -- VT and LSU will probably be the national champs this year. In a LSU-OSU matchup, LSU would probably win. But that doesn't mean OSU should be disqualified because of LAST YEAR when they had a different team. Afterall, no one thought Miami would lose in 2002. Thats why we play the games...You guys can knock Florida for being the only two loss team ranked if you want (and to be honest, I think Auburn is ranked as a two loss team as well), but I guarantee that you wouldn't want your team to play against Florida nor Auburn if it were a deciding factor for your team to get into the NC game.
Let's put biases aside for a minute. Do any non-SEC bloggers really believe that Florida don't belong in the Top 25? I call it how I see it. If anyone (I'm pretty sure many did) watched Florida play LSU and then watched USC play Stanford, then there is no way to say that Florida don't belong (especially if you're gonna keep USC in the top ten after their woeful performance).
Anyone who thinks that Stew is pro-SEC hasn't been reading his columns. At some point, you have to give credit where credit is due, so if one read a comment where he "MAY" have praised an SEC team, then it's probably because he didn't have much option to not do so. That's not a jab at Stew either (he's entitled to his opinions like the rest of us), but it's for the person who stated that Stew is big on the SEC and PAC 10 (or was it Big 10?).Is it my imagination or does Tebow get mentioned on every nationally televised (and some not) college football game....Posted: 9:12 PM by bgault
Hey SEC morons (yes, you)...who have the SEC teams beat besides each other??? What a joke way to build a conference up.
Opposition W-L Records (2007)
LSU 20-9
S Carolina 19-6
Florida 17-7
Kentucky 16-8
Auburn 20-6
Georgia 15-9
Tenn 15-7
Other notables:
USC 10-13
Cal 10-11
Okie 14-14
Hawaii 4-15This post has been removed by the author.An honest question for Florida fans - how comfortable really are you with Tebow's decision making in the passing game? I went to the Ole Miss game (and yes, managed to survive sitting in the Florida section decked out in OSU gear) and was less than impressed seeing him in person. Yes, he ran hard but made a LOT of bad reads and poor decisions. Several times he took the snap, locked in on his first option and when he found it covered, seemed to panic.
He seems to be a great guy characterwise (stayed on the field for 15 minutes shaking kids' hands after everyone else had left), has a stong arm, and is definitely a load to bring down, but I really am not buying all the hype just yet. I know you have a monster freshman behind him - Are you sure Tebow is even going to be your guy for the next few years?Kirk Posted: OSU played the toughest schedule by far last year.
To the contrary Kirk, according to the Sagarin Computer Rankings (un-biased), OSU had the easiest schedule of the final Top Ten teams in 2006, and that is after Florida was factored into your SOS. It was much lower before that. Sagarin is based on your record and your opponents record. Their ranking was 38th, Florida's 8th, and LSU's 20th.
The only two teams in the Top Ten with easier schedules, would be Wisconsin at 82nd (yes, another Big Ten team), and predictably Boise State at 90th. This also lends credibility to the fact that the rest of the conference,as a whole, is weak.
We are not specifically targeting the Big Ten, we are just realist. We just want you guys to properly evaluate the facts before using them to make unsubstaniated claims!why all the talk about usc and flordia . what about the tigers of LSU the number 1 team in the nation and there run for the national title .South Carolina, the real USC in my heart, has been given no respect by the coaches!
We've beat at the time #11 Georgia and #8 Kentucky. Sole loss is to #1 LSU....by 12 points (spread was 16) AT LSU. We do not deserve a top 5 ranking yet I agree, but leaving us at 12?!?!?!? Behind Southern Cal. that lost to Stanford?
Maybe its payback to the Ol' Ball Coach for all the smart comments about other coaches/teams and then turning around and beating them 35-0.
Like I said, we're no top 5, but we deserve top 10.
By the way....Pre-season 2nd hardest schedule in the nation belongs to....... Univ. of South Carolina!Mickey,
That's why we play the games, and don't let the computers play them for us.
2-1 vs. SEC last year in Bowl Games = your stats mean nothing.Now that USC has lost, it comes down to who else will play Ohio State in the NC as they will crush all of their remaining opponents even if they have to win any of those games by 1 pt.....oh yeah 2002 baby and call the "SEC geography" Hurricanes as a resume reference! Cal will lose to USC or Pete Carroll will have a heart attack. Boston College?..Ho hum.. LSU would be the sweetest victim so as to send the SEC back to the mental state of "wow, hope we never have to ever play anyone in the Big 10 again!!!!!!!Dear RB,
Ohio State played Texas in back to back years and even after they were Natl. Champs...and beat them in their house. Ohio State has USC on their regular season schedule for the next two years, and then the Miami Hurricanes the next two years after that. Let's see others follow the same suit.South Carolina may have the ugliest and poorest football history on record...but as I recall......
OSU vs. South Carolina - Outback Bowl 2000 and 2001. I won't bore you with you who won twice.
One more thing...Hey Big Ten, what have you done for me lately?
Since 1998 1 national championship for the Tiny 10. SEC 3. Its done. Produce championships or go back to watching ESPN Classic for the good memories.
We havent lost to Appy State lately.
OSU - "GATOR CHOMP!" - Your stomachs are churning aren't they? It'll be ok. Last year won't repeat because you won't make it to the NC game.so you quote computers when they benifit you (ie we had a tougher schedule), and whine about them when they don't (ie, who cares about the BCS poll we should play OSU cause we are in a strong conference-Urban Meyer). As a human being, tell me who had a tougher schedule than playing Texas, Michigan, and Florida.Ha, you are a joke, since 1998, the SEC has won 2 national championships. Face it, USC won it in 2003. Funny that since 1997 the big 10 has won 2 as well.BuckeyeOrDie - you reference the civil war in the midst of a discussion about non-conference schedule strenght. would you not say that the south scheduled the ultimate nonconference opponent with that deal? also, i appreciate the notion that southerners are trapped in their thinking that alabama and tennessee are great programs because of what bryant and general neyland did. but now you bring up a war that occurred nearly 150 years ago. i would close this post with a roll tide, war eagle, or go vols, but if the civil war is your idea of current events, you might not be quite contemporary enough to follow.This post has been removed by the author.Better reread the post, Terry - I was citing OSU as a good example for scheduling big time out-of-conferences. What I was saying is, even as an OSU grad, I would rather have a top ten matchup with a team like Texas and risk an early loss (a la 2005) than play for the state championship every year knowing you're all but guaranteed to go into conference play undefeated. I'd be interested in seeing something similar to the ACC-Big Ten challenge you see in Basketball. Like someone suggested earlier, pick a week early in the year, take all the teams from the SEC or Pac 10, match them up and let them go at it. Won't happen though - schools wouldn't go for it and the schedules are made too far in advance to guarantee fair matchups.Ravi:
Kudos to Florida for winning last year. They played well and we didn't. But I have to tell you that the "Gator Chomp" means way more to you than to any of us up here...it's about like the FSU tomahawk thing. I guess it's something for you to do, but as for being intimidated by it...I hate to burst your bubble but it just isn't that impressive or scary. Although I thought the Auburn true freshman kicker did a nice job of it after kicking the winning field goal against you (twice).Sorry, misread your post. You are right, OSU DID have it pretty hard. Agreed.
All I was trying to get at is that SEC isn't overrated and we don't scream "We're the best" just to say it despite what Big Ten or Pac 10 fans may say."One more thing...Hey Big Ten, what have you done for me lately?
Since 1998 1 national championship for the Tiny 10. SEC 3....."
why stop at 1998? because michigan won in 1997? nice way to filter the stats. another prime example of SEC fans doctoring the stats to support their argument.This post has been removed by the author.This post has been removed by the author.Attention Ohio State fans. You are not allowed to say anything bad about the SEC until you actually beat one in a big game. Ohio State is 0-8 in bowl games against the SEC (go ahead and look it up). It doesn't bother me when other teams complain about the SEC, but come on Ohio State do something on the field before you try and justify your team. You have no grounds to argue. (PS everytime an SEC team has been invited to a BCS Championship game they are undefeated)I think the BCS really needs to reconsider the use of computer generated polls. At the very least, computers are unbiased. The biggest knock against them is that a lot of people just don't understand how they rank the teams---or they disagree with the ranking of a "traditional power." This notion that somehow human polls are a better indication of how teams stack up is ludicrous. Human voters don't watch EVERY game so they can't know how good a given team is. A quick glance at a team's schedule and the record of the opponents doesn't mean much. 10-1 in the WAC is very very different than 10-1 in the SEC. Unless all aspects considered, human polls will continue to be inaccurate, and teams that have been good historically will continue to be overrated. I don't know if it's out right bias or simply voters don't have the time to look at the games so they vote based upon what's happened in the past ( explaining why USC is still in the top 10).
I have no problem with traditional polls-- they're entertaining and provide for "upsets" But when these are also used to determine who plays for the title game.. it's wholly unfair to excellent teams that may not have the name recognition of traditional powers ( lets face it a 11-1 or even 10-2 USC team would get the nod over a 12-0 Hawaii team).Dizmo,
OSU has played a cake schedule. It's ridiculous trying to deny it. You down the Seminoles saying they are no better than Washington, but they would be 6 and 0 if they played OSU's schedule so far. OSU's only remotely challenging opponent was Purdue, who was only ranked because of an even weaker schedule (Incidentally also their only opponent with a winning division 1a schedule).
The "hard" part of OSU's schedule includes ONE ranked opponent, with the second hardest challenger being the team that lost to Appalachian state.
I would seriously be surprised if OSU would be undefeated if they had to switch schedules with Florida, LSU, or for that matter Florida State. You can argue that they are a good team, or that they "might" still be ranked if they had played someone, but you can't make a credible argument for their schedule being anything other than a cakewalk.Amen Go_Noles.Does anyone find irony in the following statements:
"When an SEC team beats another SEC team it is a testament to the strength of the SEC conference"
"When a PAC 10 team beats USC, USC is considered over-rated"
How about some credit to the PAC-10 teams!!! When will people out East, Midwest, and in the South get their heads out of their little worlds and realize there's some exciting football being played on the West Coast? And oh yeah, to the SEC guy that went on and on about the "South versus the Yankees" and who tried to infer how wonderful the confederacy was, did you know you lost the war? That's even more ironic...First, I hate when people try to justify their team or conference with wins that happened two or three years ago...in most cases all of those players have graduated or left for the nfl early. For example...LSU lost to Iowa a few years back...do you think that would happen if they played tomorrow? Each season brings a new team with different abilities.
Second, I'll go ahead and say it. The Pac-10 is a good conference this year...but this is a STRONG year for them...the only reason the Pac-10 could compete with the SEC this year is because the SEC is having a weaker year while the Pac-10 is having one of the best years in recent history. Even with that...there are only 3 teams in the SEC that haven't been ranked this season and Mississippi State could be by the end of the season...at any given time, at least half of the SEC is in the top 25. The fact is, if the top three from Pac and the top three from the SEC played, the games would be (as of now) LSU v Cal, Florida v Oregon, and either USC v USC or Arizona St. v Kentucky...LSU and UF would easily win those games...the other would be too close to call...so sorry Pac 10...but at least you're better than the big 10/12/east
Third, I'd LOVE to for LSU to go head-to-head with OSU so that Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson and Ali Highsmith, Luke Sanders, Craig Steltz, Jackson, Xenon, Jones, and McCray could DESTROY OSU while our offense ran all over the field. It would be priceless to see OSU get owned by another SEC team. GEAUX TIGERS!!I'm truly amazed that so many people at one time decry inflated records, but at the same time think a loss is the worst thing in the world. In some cases it is, in some cases it isn't.
USC's loss was a bad loss and USC is ranked too high this week, no doubt. As the most current glamour program, I'm not surprised. But, this has happened to other teams in the past, and it will happen in the future. It's not USC-specific.
Someone mentioned that Florida shouldn't be ranked in the top 25, because they have 2 losses. So what? It's crazy to think that FL isn't one of the best 25 teams in the nation. You could tell based on the game vs. LSU.
College football rankings are notorious for dropping teams simply for losing, no matter who they lose to.
My cousin played Div. I women's volleyball. At the beginning of the season, a lot of the top teams play each other in non-conference games. It's not at all unusual for teams to have a 2-2, or 2-3 record and still be in the Top 10, and sometimes even the Top 5. Why? The teams that beat them were ranked higher and they gave them a good match. If No. 6 loses to No. 2 in a good match, there's no reason to drop No. 6.
How does #9 Flordia give LSU a helluva battle AT LSU, lose by 4 points and drop in the rankings?
Simple, because in college football, we rank records. That's why every year there are 4-0 teams ranked that haven't played anybody, because we are prone to look at the record above all else.
And that's why we drop teams for losing, even if they lose to the best team in the country.Since we don't have a playoff system, there will always be a grey area when it comes to "who's the real champion?". As a poster said, one year to another things change.
SO for now, SEC is the conference with the national champion. Our conference has a right to brag.
#1 LSU, #7 South Carolina, #13 Florida, #17 Kentucky, #22 Auburn, #24 Georgia, #25 Tennessee"Three yards and a cloud of dust will get it done in the Big 10 but not the rest of the country. " to "gobeargo" : if you have even watched an osu game this season you would realize that osu's offensive style is nothing at all like what you describe. you're using osu stereotypes of at least ten years ago. quite possibly one of the dumbest things i've read in quite a while"Three yards and a cloud of dust will get it done in the Big 10 but not the rest of the country. " to "gobeargo" : if you have even watched an osu game this season you would realize that osu's offensive style is nothing at all like what you describe. you're using osu stereotypes of at least ten years ago. quite possibly one of the dumbest things i've read in quite a whileAttention Go Vols (and others):
Hey guess what. We'll say whatever we want about whoever we want, including the SEC. Of all the ridiculous, stupid, short-sighted, blowhard comments I've seen on this blog, yours has to be among the most pathetic. Now non-SEC (or more specifically, OSU)people need your permission to say things? Get over yourselves already for god's sake. The fact is that the VAST majority of comments on this blog from non-SEC fans are pretty reasonable, while the overwhelming majority of the most arrogant are from SEC fans who are just WAY too full of themselves. It's gone from puzzling to irritating to annoying to just downright sad and embarrassing...I mean, I have to ask...you seriously don't get embarrassed when you write stuff like that?
As for the comment from LSUTigers about how LSU and crew would destroy OSU, yeah, well, gee you're probably right, but guess what if we do end up in the NC game I think we'd still want to play it if it's okay with you. I mean, we'd be terrified and everything because after all, you ARE an SEC team and we know there's no winning against them, but I think when it comes down to it our guys are plenty strong and plenty fast and like hitting just as much as your guys do. And, and the same level of smack talk you're tossing around was also tossed around by Miami fans in 2002...just different names.
To Dizmo: Nice try on explaining the ranking problems, but people have tried over and over and some of these people just aren't able to get it...but you're absolutely right about your points; the rankings are flawed big time and have huge reputational inertia problems, which we'll see when lower-ranked teams from other conferences beat higher-ranked, overhyped, overrated SEC teams in the bowls. Let 'em play!my post was embarrassing. i didn't have my facts correct. my mistake. tomemos and lovethegame both pointed out the flaws in my post. point taken.Pleaser stop crying. We are arrogant because we win.
Undefeated in BCS Championship games.
Pure and simple.
Florida defending champs.
Pure and simple.
LSU #1 in the nation right now. Pure and simple.
Bring on OSU...bring on California.
No matter who you root for, gotta love the passion of college football fans!!!!GeauxTigerz23:
I love your idea for the rotating round robin prior to the regular conference schedule. Not only would it set a standard for early games (no more real tuneups) but it would get more SEC/Big 10 matchups, which I would love to see. It's a great idea and I think most folks up here would really like it.Ravi:
Actually, there's no crying going on, at least not from me. I'd be completely fine stacking OSU up against any team this year. It's just that it gets so tiring to see the selective use of facts as a basis for arrogance. Yeah, you're arrogant but do you win? You went 1 for 3 against the Big 10 last year. You just now got #1. Your bowl/out of conference schedule for the last 5-10 years is about the same as the other major conferences. But tell you what, I'll still be here posting at bowl time...hopefully you will too. Then we'll see what we see.I couldn't agree with you more about the rankings. However, these things will take care of themselves over time. If USC changes course and actually starts to play football the #7 won't look so strange. If they continue as they are they will be out of the Top 25 by years end.LSU has beaten number 12 VT, number 7 SC, and number 13 FLA. Based on what htey have done on the field, they deserve to be ranked number 1.
Cal has beaten number 9 Oregon, and 25th ranked Tennessee. Again a schedule that shows that they are not just beating up on underdogs.
Neither OSU nor BC have played anyone thus far. They are ranked three and 4 based on being undefeated against several weaker teams. Admittedly, there is always the chance that any team can lose to a weak opponent, but beating 5 or 6 does not make a top 5 team.
Personally, I would rank South Florida, South Carolina and Oklahoma above both of them. All three of those teams, even with a loss, have shown themselves to be capable of beating solid opponents.Reading my last post, it sounds like I was Saying USF had a loss. I was referring to the other two teams, not USF, when I said, even with a loss.the way to decide conference strength is by players in the nfl. the sec has by far the most on nfl rosters.
usc should fall to the teens fors losing to a tem as bad as stanford but because of their sheer talent, they still could beat anyone on any given dayJust for the sake of contributing to the "who is the best conference" argument. I'd rather not make claims, or try to find some logical argument that will be taken out of context. Please visit this link which provides a listing of conference strength based on scientific mathematical formulas to rank each conference based on each conference's performance throughout history. http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/rankings/all_time_conf_rankings.php
It seems the SEC fans are on to something here! Big10 - you are well represented! I don't really by into the conference strength thing too much, but just to provide something other than conjecture, or flawed comparison, I recommend a visit.I learned that Gary Pinkel has no class. Going for a fake field goal in the 4th quarter up by 4 scores? I can understand ramming it in for one more nail in the coffin, but faking a field goal? WowSince when do we stop talking about football and start talking about situations with an underlying racial tone? Come on fellas, let's get real. It's childish and very immature to go from bragging about conferences to talking about "look at what we did to the South in the Civil War"-type talk. As a black man living in the South, I'm glad the North won, but geez, let's keep the focus on college football, folks. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in the least bit offended, but the racial undertones take the fun and excitement away from these blogs. Let's leave the Civil War in the history books and get back to the smash talk of football.you don't have to be an SEC fan to understand that OSU would be embarassed a la 2006 BCS title game if they tried to hold a candle to LSU, UF, or even USCar.
i am an SEC(LSU) fan. baton rouge is my hometown, LSU is my school. and all though we do dislike USCal, we have respect for their program, but not OSU or the (over-rated)big ten. i bring this up because i think it is important for larry, among others, to pull their heads from their nether crevices and understand that OSU would lose horribly to any one of the best 3 teams from the SEC or PAC-10.
and i have no idea which coach, other than jim tressel, in their right mind, would honestly believe that OSU could beat LSU on a nuetral field and gave them the second 1st place vote.The Book
Stewart Mandel's first book, Bowls, Polls and Tattered Souls: Tackling the Chaos and Controversy that Reign Over College Football, is available now. Click here to order your discounted copy.CommentsAll user comments must be approved by the moderator before being published. Due to time constraints, comments will only be published for the first several hours following a new post.More MandelRecent Posts
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