SI.com college football writer Stewart Mandel shares his commentary, analysis and random tidbits on the latest developments around the country.
10/26/2007 01:46:00 AM
No. 1 Priority: Scouting Trip to State College
It should be a pretty crazy Saturday night in State College.
They are the two words that spell music to the ears of any seasoned college football fan.
I’ve stocked up on beverages. I’ve printed out my Mapquest directions. By the time you read this on Friday afternoon, I will have already hit the road. Destination: State College, Pa.
The objective of my journey is simple: To check out the nation’s purported No. 1 team, Ohio State, in its first legitimate challenge Saturday night at No. 24 Penn State. Granted, no one’s going to be confusing the Nittany Lions with LSU or Florida anytime soon, but considering how many highly rated teams have already lost this season to ostensibly inferior foes, the 8-0 Buckeyes can certainly gain some legitimacy if they’re able to handle not only the 6-2 Nittany Lions but the sure-to-be electrifying atmosphere at 109,000-seat Beaver Stadium (where the students are planning one of their ever-impressive “White Outs”).
While traveling to games around the country is part of my job, this particular assignment carries some personal significance. It’s been more than eight years since my only previous trip to Happy Valley, and it happened to be the first game I ever covered for SI.com: Penn State’s season-opening rout of fellow top-five foe Arizona in the 1999 Pigskin Classic. Barely a year out of college and completely naïve to the ins and outs of covering big-time college football, I made all kinds of rookie mistakes that weekend -- taking one of those terrifying puddle jumpers into the tiny State College airport (not even the opposing teams fly into State College); waiting too long to book a hotel and ending up an hour away in Altoona; getting stuck in a horrific traffic jam on my way to the stadium; but most of all, not reserving enough time beforehand to soak up the atmosphere in State College.
Eight years later, I’ve long since learned the errors of my ways. First of all, there’s no need for planes now that I live just a four-hour drive away in New York City. This time, I’m staying in State College itself, and this time, I’m making sure to get there plenty early enough to stroll College Avenue, and enjoy the type of hospitality I’ve experienced everywhere from Auburn to Ann Arbor these past eight years. If you happen to be in town for the game, maybe I’ll run into you. Just do me a favor and refrain from asking that ubiquitous question: So … what’s your prediction?
While I had to make one for the Weekend Pickoff, the honest answer is: I have no clue. While I’m fairly certain Ohio State’s defense is as good as advertised, we’ve yet to see the Todd Boeckman/Beanie Wells/Brian Bobiskie-era offense face a top-notch defense. Two years ago in this game, Paul Posluszny and the Nittany Lions absolutely stymied Troy Smith and the Buckeyes in a hard-earned 17-10 victory (the two teams wound up finishing No. 3 and 4 in the country that season). This year’s Dan Connor-led PSU defense has not been nearly as dominant (see last week’s 36-31 shootout with Indiana), but they still rank among the nation’s top-10 units, and they’re certainly capable of making Boeckman’s night difficult.
The bigger question is, which Penn State offense will show up: The one that looked flat-out inept earlier in the season in losses at Michigan and Illinois, or the new-and-improved version that’s lit up Iowa, Wisconsin and Indiana the past three weeks? This is where I think the Nittany Lions may be in trouble. While running backs Rodney Kinlaw and Evan Royster have certainly provided a spark these past few weeks, I find it hard to believe the oft-maligned Anthony Morelli has suddenly morphed into an All-Big Ten caliber quarterback. Realistically, both he and the running backs have benefited from facing some pretty average defenses. James Laurinaitis and the Buckeyes are unlikely to surrender too much yardage on the ground, which will put a lot of pressure on the shoulders of Morelli -- which, in the past, has usually led to bad things for both him and the Nittany Lions.
But what do I know? I thought that suspect No. 2 team Boston College was going to get taken to the woodshed at Virginia Tech on Thursday night -- and for about the first 57 minutes, my instinct was correct. But suddenly Matt Ryan put on his Doug Flutie mask and engineered one of the most impressive, last-minute comebacks all season, capped off by a dazzling, scrambling, 24-yard touchdown pass that we’ll be seeing endless clips of the rest of the season.
Now, if you watched the game in its entirety, you undoubtedly came away thinking one thing: If BC is truly the second-best team in the country, than LSU might as well be the New England Patriots. The same Hokies defense that dominated Ryan and the Eagles so thoroughly for most of the night was shredded by the Tigers for nearly 600 yards during my trip to Baton Rouge earlier this season. The difference between SEC and ACC football this season is far greater than just a couple of letters.
But the fact is, 8-0 BC won the game -- which is more than we can say of previous No. 2 teams USC (against Stanford), Cal (against Oregon State) and South Florida (against Rutgers). Win five more just like it, and the Eagles -- whether you believe in them or not -- will almost certainly play for the national championship.
And so, too, may Ohio State if it continues to take care of business, starting Saturday night. It’s starting to get pretty serious out there, people. Good thing I scheduled this trip.
There is no logical way that, should both teams win the rest of their games, Boston College should go to the National Championship game ahead of LSU. Just because they have a "0" at the end of their record does not make them a better team.
LSU didn't get the job done against Kentucky, and they will have to pay for that mistake with a trip to a lesser BCS bowl, should OSU and BC win out. A national title caliber defense doesn't give up the loads of points that LSU gave up to Kentucky, or to Auburn for that matter.
On a related note, anybody see Matt Ryan barf last nite on national television? Did he get hit too hard or something? Maybe it was all of that scrambling.
obviously it doesnt mean that they are better, but since when does that matter? playoff systems don't always mean that the "best" teams win the championships either. I agree that LSU is superior, but it's their fault for losing.
In this era of parity the better team does not always win only the better team on any given day. To win the mythical NC you have to be the better team every day you play that year or lose at the right time to the right team. To date LSU was not the better team than Kentucky. While so far OSU, BC ASU, Kansas, and Hawaii have been the better team against everyone they have played. I don't beleive Florida was the best team in the country last year. That honor in my mind at the end of the season was LSU but they did not even play for the SEC title or NC because they did not take care of business during the regular season.
So true. LSU lost, Cal lost UCF lost etc. Ohio State still unbeaten, BC still unbeaten. If they win out there is your BCS championship game. You cannot take a weekend off against anyone any longer, no such thing as a free game. It doesn't matter conference, field or other team. Yes I am an OSU fan, but I will accept a loss if it happens, until then we are #1.
BC should have won that game handily 1. Refs give V-tech phantom touch down when the receiver pushed off and then landed out of bounds 2. weather affected BC's high octane passing game more than V tech 3. BC Interception was nullified and instead turned into a tech 1st down due to bogus pass interference call 4. V tech's 1st interception of ryan of the sideline was also questionable.
Despite all these pivotal calls going against BC they still won on Thursday night at Lane. V tech is better than they were when they played at LSU. btw, didn't SEC power Alabama lose to a mediocre ACC team...aka FSU
This is just a typical LSU or SEC fans post. If BC and OSU win out they play for the NC. Simply put. Like phoenix said you just have to be better than the team you play that day. LSU is probably the best team in the country but the lost a game. Until OSU and BC lose a game they are the ones to play.
I am also an OSU fan and would agree that if we lose than we dont play for the NC. But it just shows how ridiculous the BCS is if we have four 1 loss teams this year. Florida was not the best team in the country last year.They were just better than us that day. So until OSU and BC lose all the SEC and LSU fans need to sit back and reelax. There is still a lot of football to be played and there is a good chance neither the #1 or #2 team will win out.
Whats the point of playing a regular season if one of two undefeated teams from a BCS conference cannot make the National Championship game over a one loss team SEC team. If it is pre-determined that the SEC automatically gets a NC bid, whats the point of winning all of your games. How about SEC country turns off their televisions after the SEC Championship games and they can crown their own National Champ. The rest of the country can crow their own.
Wow Stewart, "purportedly" number 1? I'll read the rest of your post, but AP and BCS number 1 and you still insist on using that adjective to remind us of your minority, and almost lone, dissent. Shall we debate the meaning of "is" next. Don't be so dismissive of the Buckeyes, please.
i, a columbus, OH, resident, agree with "purportedly." the big 10 is weak, ohio state piles up wins with a strength of schedule well into the bottom half of D1-A, and the "stifling" defense shines at its best against the MAC? come on, OSU is decent but not worthy of no. 1. I hope PSU wins simply to validate OSU being known as the "Overrated State University."
The SEC is ridiculously overrated relative to the ACC. LSU is a great team as they destroyed VT, but the rest of the teams are no better than anyone else.
If the SEC as a whole is so powerful, why did Florida State beat Alabama and South Carolina struggle against lowly North Carolina. Also, Auburn lost at home to a Big East team, the worst BCS conference!
The national championship as of today should be BC vs. LSU. Ohio State hasn't even played anyone in the top 40 nor will they play anyone in the top 20 all year.
Ohio State's defense cut the rug out from not one, but two of the highest octane offenses in the big 10; they stopped purdue's passing game cold, and slammed Michigan States running game. I am a New York City resident, but it doesn't mean that I know a whole lot about the Yankees, nor does that make me an expert about the Bronx Bombers. In the same way, living in the 614 doesn't give you any sort of expertise or credibility. Just means you picked a nice place to live.
Oh, and please don't ask Stewart to pick OSU as his #1. He has a history of sinking the unsinkable with his support.
So who has BC played? A mediocre GT team and an absolutely flawed VaTech team. By the end of the season, OSU will probably have played a tougher schedule than BC. Also, both UF and LSU would easily be the best teams in the ACC. Kentucky, UT, Bama, South Carolina, which are average, are certainly better teams than the middle-of-the-pack ACC teams. I wouldn't be so quick to call the Big East the weakest BCS conference.
Ohio State will play Michigan, who despite embarrassing losses has climbed back into the top 25 again. The played and beat Purdue and Washington win they were in the top 25 and beat them bad. Penn State is back in the rankings. If you don't like the rankings blame the voters. The Same voters that have been ranking SEC teams so high.
Gang, look ... the best team doesn't always win the National Championship. This is true in NCAA Football, Basketball, NFL, World Cup Soccer, etc! I've been a Buckeye fan all my life. I can remember two times in the last 11 years where the Buckeyes clearly had the best team in the country, but due to a late loss, we were out of the National Champ picture (Thanks Michigan!!! GAR). LSU is facing that same predicament. Had they taken care of business, and won all of their games, they deserve the right to play for it. HOWEVER - they blew it against KY. I don't care how close it was, LSU lost.
That's how it was 10 years ago for the Bucks, and it's still true.
Anyone remember the crazy good UNLV basketball team with Larry Johnson, Greg Anthony, Stacy Augmon, Anderson Russel, etc?! They lost in the Final Four to a lesser talented Duke team. No NC game for them, because they did not take care of business. It happens, deal with it
First point - I thought this post was about OSU-PSU, but it morphs into another Mandell bender on why LSU is the best team in the country. Stewart, you moan that all of the blog conversations digress into infantile arguments about x conference is better than y conference, but you just did the same thing. Stay on topic, please.
Second, LSU is a very good team this year and would be favored to beat any other team at home this year. I think the same statement applies equally to the Buckeyes. But the Tigers dropped one on the road against a good conference foe. Now OSU has the same challenge. If they beat the Lions, which I think they will but it will be very difficult, I hope you assess their unbeaten status AND a defining road victory as sufficient qualification to earn your number 1 vote. I think we can agree that a road win at Happy Valley is at least as difficult as beating KY on their turf.
Third, teams improve during the year, so comparing VT's loss at LSU in week 2 to BC's win over the Hokies in week 8 (Tech's 5th home game) doesn't prove anything. That's why early season losses are not nearly as damning as defeats late in the year (unless it's the Big 12 Championship game!)
All that said, I love college football and look forward to great contests every week. Go Bucks.
if they are such high octane offenses, why arent they ranked? purdue has a good offense bad teams. michigan state, i know nothing about. have they been good any time in the past 5 years or so? just as ohio state is a good team against non-ranked teams. they're like notre dame of the brady quinn era. they win every game except the one's against good teams(like florida last year, which was the happiest day of my life to see OSU get blown out like that)
BC was able to pull out a win at VT. Good for them. However, barely beating a team with a completely inept offense isn't really a ringing endorsement. If VT had a better QB than Glennon, they might have ben able to capitalize on the two picks (which incedentally should have been at least 4). I am sure they will meet again in Atlanta. And I doubt BC will remain undefeated now that it plays the meat of its schedule. No more UMass and Army teams to beat up on.
Despite the SEC propaganda macine, which rivals NASCAR's, the facts are that the SEC has played more (and poorer) 1-AA teams this season than the Big Ten, they are 4-4 against the BCS conference teams, while the Big 10 is something like 10-3, counting Notre Dame, which, like it or not, is treated as an elite by the NCAA. The SEC is only 1-3 against ranked teams from other conferences. The Big Ten is 0-1. I agree the SEC is a more well-rounded this year than the Big Ten, but I am not sure the evidence suggests that they are in any way "mighty". Over the last 5 years, the Big Ten is 8-6 in head to head games. On balance, I think most of the BCS conferences are reasonably even.
In other words, give it a rest. You have some good teams in the SEC, but if they lose and OSU and BC don't, stop the whining. We already have a playoff...the regular season. So if someone else wins out and you don't, you don't deserve to play for the title. The best team doesn't always win March madness either, sometimes the seeding works against you. But win first, SEC fans, and then you won't need to complain. If OSU and/or BC lose (and they might), make your case, but until then stop acting like the whiniest fans in the known universe.
The Buckeyes haven't had much in the way of national exposure. They'll get it Saturday night. I'm thinking Laurinits and the "D" will deliver the most impressive performance of the game, that OSU's O-line can handle the Lions' D and that Beanie, Boeckmann and the receiving corps will keep the Bucks in front of PSU the entire game. The only tripwire is turnovers. If PSU wins that statistic by two or more, the Bucks could lose.
If it comes down to choosing between BC and LSU for the NC Game, just look at what each has done (or not done) on the road. That should be the determining factor. What BC did last night was very impressive, indeed. LSU at UK? Not so much.
Get your facts straight. Since Tressel has come to Columbus, Ohio State has record of 26-8 against ranked teams and an 8-3 mark against top 10 teams. They have posted a 4-1 record in overtime have been 19-9 in games decided by a touchdown or less.
Purdue was ranked at the time of play, and Michigan States offense was number 1 in the big 10 at game time. I didn't say that their defenses were any good, however.
All of the big doggs in college football can post records like I just cited, but they need to get the job done in the here and now to be the mythical "BCS Champ." Florida barely made its way into the title game, and humiliated OSU. You take care of business on game day, or you shut up. It's that simple.
OK, we get it, only wins and losses matter. I can't wait for this year's Hawaii-Kansas BCS national championship game. BTW, the stats you're quoting are such small samples, they don't really represent anything. For instance, you say the Big-10 is 8-6 against the SEC. But that doesn't mean anything. I know one of the games included in that record is Michigan-Vandy. That really doesn't mean anything.
Michael, nice post. I agree that over any 3-5 year time period, the conferences are fairly equal.
Just don't stoop to name calling on the SEC fans. They are truly fanatics, which is good for the game. I think we'll see about 100,000 fanatics at Happy Valley, and that is good for PSU. Just not enough to beat the Bucks!
I'm quite franky tired of hearing about the Florida massacre without anyone taking into consideration the 51 day layoff that occured for OSU. Would they have won if not for that? I don't know. But I can most assuredly say that they were not the same team 51 days later than they would have been 7 days later. Also to say that they didn't play any tough games last year is to forget or ignore totally the season they had. Second game of the season they went into Texas who was ranked in the top 5 and won easily, Iowa ranked about 14 was supposed to be a tough battle again on the road at night and OSU won easily, Penn State played us very togh at home in the rain and the game was much closer save for 2 late interception returns for touchdowns and there is always the Michigan game which no matter what the records or rankings is a test at all times. I agree OSU's schedule is weak this year but as is stated many times over, they are winning games they are supposed to win which I see does not happen in the SEC and they always have the excuse of "teams are tough and any team can win on any day"...well welcome to competitive sports. Thats why they play the games. SEC teams are underachievers at times and need to face the fact that they are human and not some supernatural football phenoms. LSU was ranked #1 and Kentucky was ranked lower therfore LSU should have won, along with Florida over Auburn (last year too), SC over Vandy...Auburn over some weak team they lost to. Let's remember these games they should have won. In this year of upsets give some credit to teams that are not allowing themselves to be upset by a lesser foe.
boisebuckeye, Do you really think what BC did was impressive? Did you watch the game? They were outplayed for about 57 minutes. The comeback was impressive, but in total, BC looked well... awful in that game.
Hmm, did anyone read this week's mailbag in which it was noted that every blog thread turns into "my conference can beat up your conference"? There are relatively few out of conferences games, those games rarely match up teams of equal rankings within their respective conferences, and the "best team" does not always win every matchup. So, why bother arguing? Besides, I think that the Sun Belt is clearly the strongest conference in football because they play such a tough in-conference schedule that when it comes to an out-of-conference game, they simply don't want to waste their efforts and risk key injuries that would ruin their chances for the in-conference victories. (Sadly, this sarcastic logic is stronger than some of what I've read earlier in this thread...)
Sadly, this joke of a system we have in college football (BCS) forces people to champion their own conference. I certainly wish there was a playoff, because this whole conversation would be irrelevent. Despite that, the SEC is clearly the best conference, far and away :).
Stewart- You're use of the team A did this to team B therefore team C blah blah blah formula is incredibly weak and hypocritical. Seriously, what wretched form of ghetto crack are you smoking that stops you from seeing how lame and transparent you are? Does the SEC have a lobby and are you on its payroll? How about some professionalism sparky?
First, let's look at last night's game. LSU, granted playing at home, beats Va Tech by 41. Let's get rid of 20 of those points as home favorites, which is preposterous. Still a 3 td win. BC? Enough said.
Conference? Big 10 has lost, correct, lost to two FDS or I-AA schools this year. Michigan and Minnesota share that dubious feat. Thus, all discussion regarding conference strength is bogus.
Finally, let's look at last year. Good thing we weren't forced to watch a rematch of OSU-Mich. Both teams were slaughtered in their bowl games. Do people really want to see poor teams beating on inferior CONFERENCE opponents in NC? I doubt it. The conference is losing to I-AA schools on a pace reserved for the WAC or CUSA.
The same old SEC garbage about Florida hammering OSU. Fine. Why don't these SEC fans mention Big 10 2 beating SEC 2 or Big 10 3 beating SEC 3. Penn St. beat Tennessee and Wisconsin beat Arkansas. So much for those REDNECK SEC fans saying higher Big 10 teams beating lower SEC teams. The SEC is no different than any other conference with balance and evenly matched teams. One of those redneck fans said Ohio State was afraid of LSU. What a JOKE!!!!!!! that is. I would be willing to wager that OSU would love to face another SEC team. LSU or Florida would be neat.
What a weekend to spend in State College! I'm so jealous you get to spend time in the cauldron of sound that is Beaver Stadium. The fans are excellent, the tailgating is supreme, and the town is awesome! 14-10 OSU this time.
Ok, fine the extra 15 days meant nothing and I make no sense at all on that point. Why didn't you address the SEC upsets whereas they did not win games they should have won and so many SEC fans are now complaining about their tough teams being potentially left out of the big dance.
To Paul - Yes and yes. Their defense was very impressive. VT's lone touchdown was a bad call, so the BC D really only gave up 3 points. Flynn showed poise and patience, given the weather and enviroment. He got it done. I'm by no means a BC fan, so I'll defend them no further. Just giving them props based on what I saw. I thought they'd be run out of town.
Why isn't anyone talking about the fact LSU has played EVERY tough game this season at home, except one, which they lost. Would they have been able to come back and win like they did in the swamp or Auburn's stadium? I doubt it. In the words of Dennis Green "If you wanna crown em, crown em." I'll wait until the end of the season
first off, i'm an osu fan. but i would like to think i'm bringing a level-headed perspective to this. at this point i could care less if osu is #1 b/c they haven't proven enough...even to me. frankly, i get tired of watching them beat up on akrons and kent states. it's like watching your kid beat up another kid. i want a real game to get excited about. that said, i just want all of you haters/doubters/sec fans to honestly watch them play penn state tomorrow. i don't know what's going to happen. but just give them an honest look. for the sec fans, think of this as an sec road game against someone like south carolina. tough atmosphere. good defense. but the team can underachieve like none other. but i just want you guys to check out osu's defense one time. if they play like they're capable of then i don't know if many of you will doubt them nearly as much. i realize that in many of your eyes this won't prove anything, but i hope for some of you who really understand the game and how it is won and lost...i think it could.
I suggest that everyone start ignoring these SEC "people" and their porous, self-aggrandizing hype. From here on out I'm treating them like the creep you avoid eye contact with while walking down the street. Go OSU, ASU, and BC!
"Why don't these SEC fans mention Big 10 2 beating SEC 2 or Big 10 3 beating SEC 3. Penn St. beat Tennessee and Wisconsin beat Arkansas."
So which team exactly is SEC 2 here? Because last I checked, the second best team in the SEC last year was LSU, and had they played Penn St or Wisconsin, it probably would've been ugly. But you're right, Tennessee and Arkansas did embarrass the conference last year.
Oh and everyone talking about how bad the Big 10 is since Michigan lost to App. State, do some research. First off, that Michigan team is not at all the same time Michigan has right now. And secondly, it seems nobody really knows who App. State is. Again, do some research. If you would put App. State and Stanford (especially with a backup quarterback) on the same field, App. State would wipe the floor with them.
There is one simple reason that OSU is no. 1. They have won the games they were supposed to, while the others haven't. Regardless of strength of schedule, if you lose a game you are supposed to win then you deserve to fall.
I agree that VaTech's sole touchdown was pretty shady. But VaTech's offense is anemic, so I don't know how much credit BC's defense gets there. BC's supposedly high-powered offense scored zero points in the first 57 minutes of the game. Ryan was intercepted twice, and honestly, if VaTech hangs on to a few more, that number can easily be 5 or 6. They'll pulled the game out, and no one can take that from them. But off the top of my head, I feel like Oklahoma, LSU, Florida, USC, Oregon, USF, OSU, and Michigan would all beat BC pretty handily if they were to play on a neutral field right now.
Umm Tyler... I'm pretty sure playing at night at Penn State is a "little bit" different than playing at South Carolina. 114,00? And thinking LSU was just so great last year because they manhandled Notre Dame.. my unborn child could've manhandled Notre Shame, OSU did the exact same thing the year before.
You're right, OSU has won all their games, which is impressive. But, hypothetically, if LSU and OSU were to swap schedules. Do you think LSU would have a loss? and do you think OSU would still be undefeated?
cool out, etcetera. in my comparison of psu to so. carolina i was trying to include a number of factors such as team strength. i'm sorry, it's the best i could do. but i dig you unborn child reference. good stuff.
one other note...no one can make the "bc/asu/osu is not the best team in the country therefore they shouldn't play for the title..." argument. imo, the best team osu has had in my lifetime was the '98 squad that blew it in the second half against mich. st. i really think they were head and shoulders above anyone else in the country that year. that said, they didn't get it done and i couldn't argue them into the n.c. game. i'm not using that to argue for osu this year, but i'm just trying to say that the best teams don't always get it done.
This year's train wreck of who should play for the network designated "national championship" will leave everyone demanding some form of playoff. If ABC gets Hawaii-Kansas, they'll be jumping out of windows in NY. Everyone will get tired of the SEC whining how their one loss team should be in.
Cut back to an 11 or even 10 game season gets rid of all this I-AA scheduling. Have a genuine playoff, conference champs only, with one or two wild cards to keep it even and interesting (a Boise St.).
I don't see your point. You're listing some of the upsets that happened earlier this year. So what? Obviously, anybody can beat anybody, this year has certainly made that clear. All I'm trying to say is, I think the teams I listed can beat BC right now. I'm not saying BC can NEVER beat any of those teams. I'm saying I think those are better teams, it's obviously subjective.
symptoms may include but are not limited to: 6. Thoughts that a L can be better than a W. 5. 1 loss National Title talk. 4. Southern Arrogance. 3. Constant reference to schedule. 2. Denial of previous season bowl record vs. big10 ...and the number 1 sign you might have S.E.C. 1. DRESSING UP FOR FOOTBALL GAMES! !! . c'mon people, its football.
Paul, the Big Ten's #2 played a BCS bowl last year too, just like the SEC. The SEC 3 and 4 lost to the Big Ten 3 and 4. The SEC 2 beat down Notre Dame in basically a home game for LSU. Impressive, except the Big Ten #2 beat down Notre Dame in South Bend, the Michigan team that the SEC fans like to make fun of so much.
SEC is probably the best conference this year, but it isn't a runaway or anything.
And to the SEC fans who always complain about how hard it always is to go undefeated in the SEC, how it's always way harder than any other conference to do so, enough. Check the stats. In the conference championship era, which BCS conference has the most teams that have gone undefeated in conference play? Yep, that's right, the "it's so hard to go undefeated in conference" SEC!
I just don't understand some of you guys reasoning. You tell me that you need the elements to help you when games? To say that BC's win was better because it won on a rainy night, but discredit LSU for winning on a "pristine" night is crazy. If you can manhandle a team in an environment where the elements are not a factor makes the win that much better. There is no excuse for either team to make as to why they lost other than that they did not play well. So all you folks trying to validate a game in the elements need to sit down. So what your team plays with frozen fingers? They should be happy to come to a place to play where only their talent will carry them.
Isn't it funny that all the whiners are really MOST of the nonSEC bloggers? All you read is SEC think they're so great this and so much better that... (news flash) that's whining! Get over it already.
If BC, ASU or Ohio St wins out, two of them should play in the NC, but I would be willing to bet that if there were two games played on that day and one game featured two unbeatens and the other game featured LSU/Florida vs the other unbeaten, more people would watch the 'LSU/Florida vs the other unbeaten' game.
To me, it's not even about superiority, I just think that the SEC, consistently, has some of the most hard-hitting and exciting games in college football.
I'm shocked. Don't you guys read Mandel's mailbag?!?! Stop it with the "my conference is better than yours" debate. It's simply BASELESS. I'm a Buckeye, and I agree that LSU looks like the sharpest team out there. But there is no evidence to suggest the SEC as a whole is the dominant conference other than simple popular opinion. They have the losses to other BCS conferences during the regular season to prove it. People bitch and moan about how OSU can't and won't ever compete with an SEC school. Well, Ohio State is actually undefeated in the regular season against SEC schools, at 3-0-1. It's the bowls where they haven't been able to compete.
Look, southerners, strength of schedule, sagarin rankings, all that hooey...it's ALL based on a subjective opinion. And opinion is not always right. That's why Florida got a shot at the title last year. Hell, two of the teams they beat got shelled by Big Ten teams in bowls. If you can't accept the fact that there are other teams with good kids and talented athletes, then secede again. We don't even mind this time. Go have your own championship. But please, YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST STOP HARPING ON TEAMS THAT HAVE WON ALL THEIR GAMES!!! There's competition everywhere. There's speed everywhere. That's why you got toasted against the Big Ten last year in bowls (look at what Ted Ginn made you look like).
You have the respect. Now, win your games and get off our threads. Go Buckeyes! Let's keep this rolling. OSU 28-PSU 10.
@Paul Paul the Big Ten's 8-6 record over the SEC quoted by Michael is bowl games over the last five (5) years. If you know your conferences (I am assuming you're an SEC boy) the Big Ten and SEC square off every year in at least two bowl games pitting the #2 Big Ten against the #2 SEC and the #3 Big Ten against the #3 SEC. These are known as the Captial One Bowl and the Citrus Bowl. Sound familiar? Big Ten is 8-6 against SEC including 2-1 last year (Ohio St having lost badly to FL in bcs title game). Also, over the same five (5) year period, the boys that put their money where their mouth is and who don't give a crap what conference you are from, the NFL, conduct a draft, perhaps you have heard about it. Do you know which conference has had the most first round draft picks over the last five years??? Well my friend it is a tie between the Big Ten and the SEC with 30 first round draft picks each. Now with all that behind us, let me state I am a buckeye boy and a Big Ten fan who acknowledges that the best conference this year from top to bottom is the SEC. However the gap between them and whoever is #2, is not as great as the SEC folks would have everyone believe. I watch a crap load of college football and that is my opinion. But while that is my opinion it does not change the fact that any team from any of the BCS conferences who goes undefeated in their conf should get their shot at the bcs title game. I am sorry that a one loss team from the best conf has to sit at home and watch two "lesser" teams battle it out, but that is what happened to Ohio State in 1998 when it suffered a late season loss to Michigan St (28-24 in a driving rainstorm) and had to settle for bcs Sugar Bowl victory over TX A&M while a "mediocre" one loss FL ST embarrased itself against T Martin and Tennessee. The Big Ten went 5-1 in all its bowl games that year and Ohio State with 7 first round draft picks on its roster and a preseason, consensus #1 had to watch from home. Life is not fair and neither is the bcs system. Long live College Football!
OSU could not have known ten years ago that Youngstown, Akron & Kent St would be weak this year. If Hawaii wins out it would be a great game for OSU to re-establish itself as the best team in the country. What counts most is that you win each game not who you play.
Why do people fail to comment on Florida's non-conference schedule? They play western Kentucky (tough), Troy (tougher), and Florida Atlantic (btw, they are 0 for the century). Seriously, OSU played Texas the past two years and has USC, MIAMI, and OU on the schedule for the next 6 years. When the self-proclaimed "sepreme" SEC teams do that, then come back an post. To be truthful, I think that you southern folks are still pissed about that civil dispute we had about 150 years ago.
@Ssquatch No that is clearly not the Tyler who was in here last Monday. That Tyler finally got his prescription filled and is doing just fine. this Tyler appears to be a Buckeye who echoes my comments about Ohio State in 1998. They were in the same shoes LSU is in right now. Clearly the best team from the best conference (that year) who had a stumble and didn't get invited to the title game. To bad but that is how it goes.
y'know what's funny about all this is that a few years ago the whole conference/region superiority debate seemed to be much more mild. did the osu/uf title game have that much influence on lasting impressions of college football? i'm not trying to downplay florida in any way as they just plain executed...it was impressive. but i figured that more true football fans who know the game would understand that those types of things can happen and they probably aren't indicative of long terms trends.
@ paul The honestly answer to your question about OSU playing LSU's schedule is..we don't know. But for all of you SEC supposters who think LSU has played such a tough schedule, which game are you convinced OSU would lose? Miss St, V Tech, Mid Tenn, SC, Tulane, Florida, Kentucky or Auburn. You really think any of those teams are so great that you can say with 100% certainty that they will beat OSU. I doubt it...So again open your eyes and look at the data and stop being caught up in the letters of the conference. And if you're thinking Florida, we can be like Auburn is to them...or Auburn may play like they played against Miss St.. i believe Kentucky is a fraud and is very overrated. So what they beat LSU. Ever heard of an upset? Their schedule is not as scary when you look at it is it?
@Paul Concerning SEC # @ against Big Ten #2 and #3 agianst #3 i nthe Capital One Bowl and the Citrus Bowl. The contract is for the next best tema in each conference that does not get a bcs berth to play each other. So last year both the SEC and the Big Ten had two bcs teams (FL, LSA, Ohio St and Michigan). Therefore the SEC 33 (Arkansas) played Big Ten #3 (Wisconsin) and #4 Tenn played #4 Penn St. Okay?
Yeah, sure seems that the conference/interregional debate is more than "mild" these days. Stewart did a pretty good analysis of that in his mailbag this week. I don't expect it will dampen passions, but it was good.
Personally, I think it is inevitable from the BCS system and the tweaking it has gone through. When teams with higher computer rankings slip in to a championship game that other teams regard as "theirs" (LSU vs OU) and the system is changed to put more emphasis on human polls as a clear result, you will have angry fans and coaches. When a pretty darn good Auburn team gets shut out the of the championship game as a result, you may get angry fans not only of the team but of the conference. I think Stew nailed it with those points.
The conference debate is pointless, and even silly when it degenerates from strength of schedule arguments to such elements as we have seen used to bash other conferences.
I just enjoy the games, root for my teams, and hope someday for having things settled on the field. I don't think a team should have to go perfect to get to a championship game, but I do think they would need credibility from a playoff to claim the title.
Just my thoughts . . . I may have to order Stew's book this week given the sense he makes on all this.
@Gary To your post about LSU and Ohio State schedules. Kentucky played Kent St at home and so did Ohio State. Look up the box score. Ky and Kent were ited at halftime 14-14. Kent had 262 yards rushing and were done in by 3 turnovers. Final KY 54 Kent 20. Ohio State beat Kent 48-3 with Kent kicking a field goal against the third string with 2 minutes left in the game. Kent had 223 total yard for the game. Whatever
so whats your point? Kentucky can blow out kent St.as can OSU? Should I also provide kentucky's schedule? Nothing scary. Every team is vulnerable when they step out on the field...even LSU and Florida. You can never guarantee that any team will beat any team...maybe there could be 1 or 2 exceptions but certainly no one in the SEC is a guaranteed lock to beat OSU. Furthermore, I want to know how many of you SEC supporters gave up 20 or more points in the championship game. I didn't think so because no one knew that would happen either.
just wanted to say that i ordered stew's book about three weeks ago to read on the subway and i read it in about 4 days. it's just a solid, entertaining book. he touches on a lot of things that most of us probably know about already, but just goes into further depth and adds some good, funny sarcasm. if anything it just gives hard evidence that we will never ever solve the problems that we bring up on these blogs...and that maybe that's the beauty behind college football.
Everyone should remember - the only reason OSU is ahead of BC, Kansas, Arizona State and Hawaii is that they started the preseason ranked above them.
That's it - a silly preseason guessing game is why OSU are #1.
It's not that they've taken care of business - if that was the case then all 5 teams should be co #1's - right?
Personally I wouldn't have Ohio State any higher than 5th right now. BC and Arizona State have shown me more than OSU. And loss be damned - LSU has shown me more. A 3OT loss to Kentucky is worth more than a win against Youngstown State or Kent State.
This game should be a good one. Stew forget to mention that while the Penn State offense and defense are not as as they were two years ago, neither are Ohio State's. All those new offensive players have yet to really play against a really fast defense, and that is what Penn State brings, more speed than anybody in the Big Ten, both offensively and defensively.
As for the while conference debate, just look at how many teams from the SEC are capable of winning national titles, Florida, Tennessee, Auburn, LSU and Alabama. In the Big Ten you have Ohio State, Penn State and Michigan (though they have 1/2 if a 1 title in the last fifty years and were no better than the sixth best team in the country in 97). That pretty much sums it up. 5-3, SEC wins.
9 games into the season before OSU has its first "test". Please give me a break! IF and I mean IF they make it back to the BCS title game I am going to empty my piggy bank on LSU putting another Florida Gator SEC whipping on them.
What would you give to have Tebow and Harvin on your team?
Kentucky's schedule: Eastern Kentucky, Kent State, Louisville, Arkansas, Florida Atlantic, SC, LSU and Florida. At the time you are saying that a 3OT loss to them was so significant, they only played 2 ranked team (Louisville,SC and we know what happened to those teams)so why are they such a formidable foe?
@Grant Basically agree with you Grant on where Ohio State might truly be right now, but I don't agree that ASU and BC "have shown me more" up to this point. Ohio State and Arizona St have a common opponent this year ...Washington. ASU had them at home and Ohio State had to go out to Seattle and play them 3rd game of the year. Ohio State's victory was much more decisive and thorough than ASU's. As for BC, they just played their biggest game (and won) last night. They struggled against Notre Dame, Massachusetts (i-aa) and Army. I don't know how you can say those two teams have shown you more than Ohio State. Let's see how Ohio State does in Happy Valley and then let us know if you still feel the same on Sunday.
Sos, not quite sure I understand what "though they have 1/2 if a 1 title in the last 50 years." You're definitely not talking about the Big 10, who has won well more than 1 title, 11 actually if you're counting splits.
Backcountryskier you must not have been following the mailbag the past few weeks. Week in and week out I watch Stewart write about how this game will be OSU's first real test of the season. Then after OSU basically shuts them out we have to hear it all over again the next week. If Ohio State wins in Happy Valley this weekend decisively, we'll still hear about how they haven't played anyone.
Wonder why OSU has a bad record against the SEC schools? Excluding the 2 wins prior to 1950, SINCE 1950 "Ohio State was a cumulative 91-39-3 (0.684) in the years it played an SEC team. The SEC teams were a cumulative 112-23-1 (0.829) when playing Ohio State. That is a big spread, folks. What makes Ohio State's winning percentage in those seasons even more surprising is that since 1950 the Buckeyes' winning percentage is the best in college football: 0.754 (465-147-15)." The record is 1-9-1 since 1950 (the lone win coming against an eventual 8-4 LSU team, while Ohio State went 4-6-1 in 1988).
Thank you, www.buckeyecommentary.com
See, SEC fans...you love to rail Ohio State's schedule this year, and LOVE to say how Ohio State would lose so many games in the SEC...well, if you combined all those games into 1 season, it'd be like this year's Florida vs. a yearly Michigan State each week, and definitely not against the winningest program in that era.
For Tyler - So I didn't fool you. I'm just tired of hearing from OSU fans that schedules are made up far in advance and one can't help this year. I also surmise that OSU will pitch a fit if LSU is chosen to play them. After all it is unfair that OSU should have to face any team that has a conference championship game. Those people are already offering excuses for this year's game.
@Grant Fortunately Grant games are 60 minutes instead of 30. Maybe the five Ohio State turnovers (3 in the red zone) had something to do with the halftime score. Akron had 3 first downs and 69 totla yard of offense, so I hardly think Ohio State was ever threatened.
By the way what do yo usay aobut the Tulane LSU halftime score 10-9. Or the Kentucky Kent State halftime score 14-14?
Ohio State can't help it when the Big 10 is in a down year. OSU schedules bigger non-conference games than anyone else. Past two years and next eight consist of Texas, USC, Miami and Oklahoma. This is the one year OSU decided to put some money into the in-state schools. If OSU is undefeated and nobody else is, bring on the media darling LSU for another home national championship game.
Etcetera - True, OSU should not be punished for having a weak schedule. Nor should they be rewarded for it. If you don't insist that at this point of the season a team has earned its rankings with quality victories then you are voting for the team based on what they have on paper. Of course I keep hearing that OSU has tradition, and OSU sends all those players to the pros, so we should vote them high on that basis. If winning is all that matters then we end up with Hawaii vs OSU and that would be fair. There would be 51 days off for both teams prior to the game.
To Backcountryskier - I'd take Harvin, but I wouldn't give anything for him. Tebow's a prick you can keep. A gadget QB in a gadget offense. Last year was last year. This year is this year. I don't care to join the SEC vs. Big Ten debate, but honestly, I can't wait until Les Miles leaves for Michigan next year. Rolling the dice like he does works pretty well in the SEC where all the coaches are degenerate gamblers, but that garbage won't work consistently against the likes of Tressel. OSU 17 PSU 7.
Whatever excitement and satisfaction OSU fans received from beating Texas last year is missing now. Don't look now but whatever excitement LSU fans received beating Va Tech this year will be missing next year. LSU's non-conf schedule will be more nauseating than OSU's this year. Maybe I am on kool aid. But any of the fans above who get excited on weak non-conf scheduling must be on something slightly more potent. Tell me I am wrong, but what should have happened last February was Fla & OSU finding a weekend when they were both playing powderpuffs, cancelled those games, and scheduled each other. I know, schedules can't be broken. But when three teams shifted to the ACC they got set to play ACC schedules, and the three teams that replaced them in the Big East did the same. If the Big Ten gets a 12th member it won't take ten years to have a Big Ten schedule. Oh I keep forgetting. OSU plays Miami next season. I saw their OK game. It should be a true test for OSU.
wow, i just read what tyler from the other day had written on here. you guys were right. he was lame.
anywho, i'm actually a big buckeye fan but i gotta say that i would take tebow any day. he's just a football player. it's almost like he's too much of a throwback to be playing in the spread, though. i want to see him on a high school field with a crappy torn up uniform, helmet with no decals, running the option every play. i didn't care for his taunting against lsu, but i probably would have done similar things if i scored a td in that hostile of an environment.
First off, I don't give a rat's patootey about which conference is better than whichever other conference. I have a favored team and I root for them. That's it. The rest is idiotic.
Second, the BCS is no better at determining the "best" team in college football than the old pure subjective ranking system. All the BCS does is make sure the #1 and #2 ranked teams at the end of the year play in a championship game. It doesn't really significantly change how those teams get ranked in the first place. Incidentally, a playoff would be no better still in determining the "best" team. Even the best teams have bad games. A playoff, like everything else, can only determine in the end who has the best record, which is not necessarily the same thing as being the best team. At some point. it's ALWAYS going to be somewhat subjective.
That said, there is a lot of hypocrisy in the way team rankings occur. If it's purely a matter of who has the best record, then yes, OSU and BC belong at the top. But so do ASU and Hawaii. The fact that those teams are not at the top indicates there is something else in play. That "something" is strength of schedule. Because rewarding a team in the rankings purely by W/L only encourages programs to schedule creampuffs. There's little incentive to do otherwise. But if ASU and Hawaii can be penalized by their "softer" schedules, then OSU and BC surely should be also. The AP voters are trying to have it both ways.. . which is bull. Pick a criteria and stick to it. Stop sugarcoating lousy schedules for the sake of "storied" programs, or for any other reason, actually.
Oh yeah, and trying to daisy-chain wins to make team comparisons (A beat B which beat C which beat D, which played in such-and-such place, which was the setting for this Kevin Bacon movie, so A is better than D) is a complete crock. You can't make comparisons like that - it's ridiculous. Different days, different conditions, often even different ROSTERS.
i am a buckeye boy obviously, but I'd take Tebow. He throws a sweet spiral and has shown tremendous arm strength and finesse on his deep passes. He is the real deal. When you get down to it, FL is running an offense with no running attack other than Tebow and the 3 or 4 end arounds they run per game. The dude shoulders the whole thing himself. He showed great poise in the bcs game last year. When Fl has it first and goal and he fakes that qb draw and passes...how do you defend that??? THis guy could win the Heisman as a sophmore.
Laurinaitis is going to hurt Morelli. He eats babies and quarterbacks. It's kind of his thing. Be afraid, Anthony, be very afraid. Your marginal completion rate is going to be tested on Saturday... Look for Laurinaitis to bring the pain!
All this Ohio State discussion reminds me of all the hype to get a rematch between Michigan and OSU last year for the BCS bowl. Ahem, what did these 2 teams do in their bowl games???
So the similarity here is OSU will end the weekend with one loss and you can forget about any further discussion of SEC vs OSU for the BCS. Penn State season stats are dead even with OSU, but this is a home game. Bucky the Buckeye will be buried in Beaver stadium.
Who has Ohio State played? Kent State, Youngstown State, Akron, Minnesota, Northwestern, and U of Washington sure were tough opponents! Purdue and Michigan State have been their toughest tests. Penn State has already played Michigan and Wisconsin. Should have beat Michigan and beat Wisconsin easily. No wonder Ohio State's defensive stats look good.
You know how they say that Pennsylvania is more like Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, with Alabama in between? Well, guess who's right in the middle of 'Alabama?' And, much like Alabama, Penn State seems to think they're situated at the only compass coordinates in the world where people play football. Heck, maybe they even INVENTED football. (?) I'm sorry, Stewart, but aside from hoping to see a 'weak' Ohio State team lose, I can't get interested in this game. I mean, if you were to take all of the excitement out of college football, what would you have left? The Big 10, right? Three yards and a cloud of dust...
I love how Stewart proves himself right time-and-time again!
SEC supremacy becomes the debate, regardless of the blog topic.
So SEC fans - this year - when you have two 2-loss teams face off for the SEC Championship, how can you seriously say your conference is superior?
If you lose games, you are a loser.
I liken your delusional state to saying Kenny Wallace and Derrick Cope are great NASCAR drivers. Just because they race cars in the top level of stock car racing does not mean they are top drivers.
SEC football is no different the Big 12, Big 10, ACC, Pac 10 or Big East football. All the teams play the same game at the same level. If you win, you deserve to be recognized. SEC teams with 2, 3, 4 or more losses are no different than teams in other conferences with the same records. SEC fans get a life!
Does anyone remember the old Big 8? Most Big 8 teams ran the wishbone back then, and Nebraska and Oklahoma crushed just about everyone. Even once they got into the Big 12, they ran the powerful wishbone. Of course, that wishbone wasn't a guarantee they would win the National Championship. Nebraska got in and had no answer for Miami's pro-set offense and passing scheme. Miami's defense had trouble with the powerful wishbone, too. But Miami won the shoot-out, something a wishbone offense was just not able to keep up with.
The point is, most teams recruit and push to win their conference. In the old days of the Big 8 and early Big 12, the differences between conferences were huge. Now they are more subtle. But there are still differences. This is why a playoff is preferable to the BCS. Parity in the conferences is beginning to lead to upsets, and I think this is a coming trend.
Anyone who says that they prefer the BCS because a team should be rewarded for having a great season, is not reading the tea leaves. Those days are gone. Teams should be rewarded for a good season by getting a high playoff seeding!
I'm just going to throw this out there. If the offense for psu showed up vs. Michigan and any part of the team showed up vs. Illinois, This would be a #1 vs. #2 matchup.(or very close to it, psu was right on the tail of osu in the rankings before the two debacles).
Enjoy Happy Valley; State College is a very nostalgic place and I guarantee you will have a great time. Be sure to get plenty of tailgating in, visit the Creamery for a "Peachy Paterno" and grab some Sticky Buns at the Diner on College Ave. College Town USA!
Charles: Hmmm...maybe I'm missing the comments from OSU fans where we're throwing a fit about playing LSU (?) or scared to play an SEC team or something...frankly pretty much every one I see echoes what people here are saying...bring it on. If you guys think that what happened last year will happen this year, well go ahead and enjoy your little fantasy until game time. I can guarantee you that OSU will be prepped and ready to play, no matter who they're playing. We'll see how they look tomorrow night...they might lose, but if they do we'll still be proud of them, and support them, and still have confidence they can beat anybody, and I mean anybody, they end up playing in the bowl. Period. Bring It On.
And to PittFan: When was the last time you watched a Big 10 game? Three yards and a cloud of dust??? Are you finding witticisms out of a 30-year old book or something? I'd suggest you try watching the OSU/PSU game tomorrow night if you can...the only people that still believe we play that way up here are the people in Florida who still think they're the only teams with speed.
You might be a Columbus resident, but I doubt it. You sure don't know your OSU football. OSU doesn't do well against ranked opponents? You might try looking as recently as last year and the opponents they played then (including playing 3 teams ranked #2 in the same season). Or that they've won, what, 25 of the last 26 games or so. I understand that when you're transplanted in to a place like Columbus (or Atlanta, or wherever for that matter) you can get sick of hearing about a team, but for God's sake man at least know enough about a team to make intelligent comments. And I'm sorry you so bitterly hate OSU...but that's your gig. One chooses to hate. I'll continue to root for them, win or lose, and continue to appreciate the football played in other conferences as well. In the end, there are WAY more important things going on right now than NCAA football bragging rights, so enjoy the games for what they are...games.
Didn't anyone notice? BC didn't win so much as VT lost. The last two drives VT went to a three rush prevent defense instead of sticking with the four rush defense that BC could handle.
Matt Ryan suddenly looks great because he has time to pick his receivers. That's a Heisman moment because there's only three rushing D-linesmen?
Someone ought to examine Frank Beamer's checking accounts, becuase those last four minutes of defense stunk.
On a final note about the conference mud-slinging, I suggest the Big10 fans give it a rest. It wasn't SEC fans who started the p*ssing contest in this thread. If you wouldn't start picking a fight, maybe your southern "redneck" brothers wouldn't respond in-kind. To this observer it seems like you have a bigger chip on your shoulder than any SEC fans do. If you truly believe the games speak, take the high road, zip the lip, and let the SEC fans look bad. I suspect however that you aren't any better than they, for all your holier than thou attitudes. This whole thing is monotonous and distracts from real football discussions.
Welcome back to State College, hope the weather gets better for kickoff, make sure you get some sticky buns at the Diner, good stuff.
Big upset tonight, the team and fans are fired up for a win. Especially after OSU spray painted the Paternoville sign and ruined the statue of General Beaver (real classy guys), as Clubber Lang would say. "My prediction...PAIN"
PSU 24 OSU 13
By the way, after the game stop by the Cafe for easy drinks and cheap girl...or is it the other way???
If I was making a line for this game, it would be a pick em. Lots of blogs saying that the PSU defense is not as good as they were a couple years ago. Their defense has been burned, but like Michigan they thrive against traditional HB FB TE 2 WR sets. Even with injuries, their D line is as good as it was 2 years ago...they have some serious run clogging beaf filling in at Tackle, and a future 1st round pick with Evans at end. Their linebacking unit is great as always. Their secondary is experienced with a ton of big play potential. Look for Penn State to force a couple turnovers in a field position slobbernocker and capitalize on at least one to keep things close enough so that special teams wins or loses the game (perhaps on long field goal tries). Morielli will not loose this game, if he throws a pick it will be a 50 yard bomb that works as a punt. Ohio State has a tremendous defense that is as good as anyone, but penn state has a secondary with some good hands and I really believe a pick is the difference here. You pick em.
Every week I read the comments and the SEC trying to validate all means possible to think they are "the most superior conference and no other conferences come close" makes me laugh
Stop flip-flopping your arguments to validate your point. What Stewart wrote is what I wrote since Day 1 (Auburn still in the polls after their 3 loss? Come on now).
The same ranking that SEC fans blame OSU being #1 makes the SEC have 7 teams in the Top 25. Check the Pre-season poll and see how many Big Ten school show up in the Top 25 compare to SEC? When you have so much subjectivity of the polls, you can't use that as the basis of relevance unless you take the relevance of the whole poll as is. AGAIN, READ THE PREVIOUS SENTENCE.
So if you want to speak of strength of strength and superiority of the SEC with the poll, the you SEC fans need to SHUT UP AND ACCEPT THAT OSU is #1.
You can't cookie cut the information. As I said before, intelligence just drop at the Mason-Dixon line for some reason (do not get me wrong but there are many SEC fans I speak who really understand my rationale and are smart). You are arguing in circles that shows nothing to prove your points.
You take about conference supremacy the past 3-5 years. Whatever you look at it 1) Big Ten has as much #1 round picks and bowls wins as the SEC 2) Last year, the Big Ten beats 2 of 3 bowl games with SEC. Yes, one was the NC but again, if they are that superior, they should be able to win all 3. Not 1 of 3... 3) Any team could be beat another. Everyone remember Boise State last year? Do people forget or have amnesia or something. Everyone thougth Oklahoma would rock Boise State and they won the bowl games. That is how much conditions could change and one could be better for one game and not the other. Heck, this is not baseball, basketball, or hockey (remember 13 games are not enough to validate a champion necessarily)
Quality of wins are subjective and your argument holds weak SEC. I stated you are a strong conference since Day 1 but I do not think you guys are that superior. That is why Vandy could knock off SC, Kentucy knock off LSU, Auburn knock off Florida. 4) Quality win is subjective. As I stated and many SEC fans wants to argue OSU schedule... All the SEC teams play cupcakes teams (2 or 3) in their schedules. So to state OSU schedule is cupcake is ridiculous. The only difference is the SEC TEAMS. So again, the chain logic comes back to quality win because 7 of the SEC teams are rated in the polls.... So you see my argument when OSU is #1 on the same poll.... 5) There are games to validate the strength of conference (like Northwestern, Duke, Minnesota, etc) but there are games for the lower tier teams losing in the SEC. If they are superior teams, they should win out the OOC games top down.. it has never happened in any conferences' history and those little losses do not validate or shun the strength of conference. So the arguments are null or pointless. My beef if any is to get all the teams to play each other as many times as possible (but of course, it would hurt the lower tier conferences, etc).
At the end, SEC fans needs to take some prozac or something. Just because of the Auburn diss, you have to argue til you turn blue to validate your point. You are here to win your arguments and not listen and hear everyone out before coming to a decision. That is why I keep pressing the intelligent factor. Many points are valid outside of the SEC. The games are going to play out and show who will be #1 (or at least should be).
None of these if they play here or there. If they play this conference schedule. All of that is pointless because football only plays 12-14 games in a season. Any day could be a good or bad day. That is why the NFL plays 16 games plus playoffs (and 2 games with their conferences home and away) to validate the statistics. Even that does not bring the Super Bowl winner from the top teams (look at Indy last year).. You can't with 100+ teams in the Div 1A.
So to the SEC fans that read and stop pre-judging the reality out there. Look and smell roses... Then look at life.. College football is not your life and damn.. If you think it is, you need to have a life...
BTW, I am a UB Bulls and Michigan fan... But my arugments have been based on statistics, experience, and everything like everyone else. But logics, you can't argue with me... Heck, I debate for a living as well as being a computer consultant
@ etcetera First of all, the reason LSU has all the tough games at home this year, is because we played every one of them on the road last year...so stop crying about it, maybe your teams conference doesnt have enough ranked teams to make a difference, but it certainly isnt our fault that there are 7 RANKED TEAMS IN THE SEC... honestly all the conference bashing aside, how ridiculous is that? 8 out of 12 teams have been ranked this season, LSU, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky, South Carolina and Georgia...granted not all of them are top contenders, but still, thats pretty impressive.
i agree with all of yall that say winning is everything. If BC and OSU can go undefeated then hoorah play the title game. But by no fault of their own, their schedules aren't very awe- inspiring. And for whoever was talking about the SEC having an automatic bid in the NC..well they haven't exactly lost in the last few years, so why not, every time they make it they win. That wouldn't be fair to all the other schools, but anyway, the SEC helps and hurts its own cause. There are only 5 bowls worth talking about, and all the SEC went 6-3 talk doesn't matter, who cares what happens in the poinsetta bowl or the q-tip bowl? While i believe the SEC is the best conference in the land, i do not think that they should be given a free pass. While LSU is better than BC, if winning is all that matters, BC is in the driver's seat and props to them, OSU the same. Just would rather have a more competitive game in the end that showcases the best of the best. There's still alot of football to be played,a nd good luckt o all yall's teams the rest of the way
LSU, LSU, yada, yada, yada. This is beginning to sound like the sports media's labeling of the 2005 USC team as "the best team in the history of human competition" (before they met Vince Young).
How can a team who lost to Kentucky and very,very luckily beat Auburn (and Florida) at home possibly be the best team in the country? My view is that LSU would get waxed given a playoff system. Whyl? Someone has already beaten them so it can obviously be done.
Well if the SEC is so superior to the rest of the bcs conferences how come they can't beat the big least. In RECENT YEARS the big east has won 9 - 10 games vs. the SEC and the big east isn't that strong, that includes away games at Auburn, South Carolina, Ky and the Sugar bowl 2 years ago which was basically a home game for GA. Lone loss this years Ky win over Lousiville. Get over yourselves.
I really want PSU to defeat Ohio State tonight. Every year, I hope we're left with three or more undefeated teams, or no undefeated teams. The reason? Controversy. Remember when an undefeated Auburn team was left out of the NC game? I think that had something to do with the SEC Commissioner using the "P" word last year.
There are still a few undefeated teams, but each has some big games left. If we end up with a bunch of one loss teams from the BCS conferences and an undefeated Hawaii, there will be controversy once the Bowl Selections are made by a few computers and a couple of polls. Every year that a BCS conference misses out on the big prize, we get closer to a playoff.