Geaux Tigers!

Isn't predicted bowl games a bit silly? What purpose does it serve other than generate angry or idiotic emails?

It also sets up being called all sorts of names.

The bowl games situation will settle itself. A few teams will be upset that they did not go to a "better" bowl.

Hopefully the fact that Ohio St fell all the way to 7 means there's no chance they'll make the Nat'l Champ. game. No offense to them (like Stewart said, it's not their fault they kept beating mediocre opponents), but I don't want another crap NC game. Hopefully this also means we don't get a million people in here saying "BUCKS" or some variation thereof over and over again. (And no, OSU, I don't "hate you," I don't really care one way or the other, I just don't want a crap NC game.)

More and more we're seeing why college football needs a playoff. Teams that lose late in the season are punished more and miss lesser bowl games. Teams in the smaller BCS conferences don't have to go through a championship game.

BTW, I would be shocked if Ole Miss stays close to LSU even in Oxford.

As for UGA, loved the black uni's!

Also, not going to the championship game could be a better deal. If UGA loses to LSU, then it drops in the polls, but if UT wins out, UGA is set for an at-large (probably Sugar Bowl) bid. I might even have to consider making that trip!

Of course I would rather UGA get to play LSU and win the SEC title and still go to the Sugar Bowl! LSU might even be able to get an at large BCS bowl.

Let's be honest. The most important question facing college football today is who will wind up in the Emerald Nuts Bowl.

The Illini are up and Notre Dame is down. Is there the remote possibility that Ron Zook's recruiting has cut into the Notre Dame mystique that exists in Illinois?

Looking at the Illini's roster, it seems that despite Zook's emphasis on recruiting outside Illinois, he has continued to pull players from top catholic schools in Illinois (where playing at Notre Dame is the fantasy).

To augment #3: We learned that Tennessee does have a defense. In games against California, Florida, and Alabama, it seemed that the Vols defense couldn't put a stop to a telegram. The performance against Arkansas validates the performance against Georgia. If Tennessee's defense shows up for the games against Vandy and Kentucky, they'll play in the SEC championship. There, it is likely they'll give LSU a game. It's also likely that Georgia will garner an invite to a more prestigious bowl game than the loser of the championship game. Dawgs playing for the national championship? That's betting against the house in Vegas. Good luck with those odds.

The Big 12 has three highly ranked teams. OK has beaten Tx & Missouri, and Missouri has beaten an Illini team unranked most of the season. This reminds me of last year when OSU had beaten Tx and Mich, and neither Mich nor Wisc had a good victory between them except for Mich beating Wisc. Only the names have been changed to protect the weaklings.
I think Fla is the only team capable of beating LSU and no one left on the Oreg schedule is a challenge to them. But GA is no easy mark.
But between now and then we have the battle of the two most highly ranked teams with the most lowly ranked schedules. With no BCS victories between them Hawaii vs Boise must break some sort of record for powderpuff heroes squaring off.

dawgs may be playing better than anyone but we wont get crak at title.title game should be uga vs lsu ,big 10,big 12, pac-ten are pretender conferences-play sec schedule boys-well trade for a season and it would be alot easier to go undefeated

OSU's loss does nothing but prove how weak the Big 10 is. There are at least 6 teams in the SEC who can beat OSU, yet it took this long for a Big 10 team to do it. GA, KY, TN, LSU, Auburn, and FL could definitely beat them, and I would even say they'd be favored in the contest.

The parity in NCAA football this year is exactly why they DO NOT need a playoff. If there was a playoff next month, none of the excitement of this season would be there. Look no further than NASCAR for why a playoff sucks. After a long season, only 12 drivers get to compete for the big trophy, though the other racers are still on the track. This takes out all of the importance of the season, including the Daytona 500.

I say to have everyone debate which team is best. In the end, at worst, there are two teams that folks can't agree upon. What's so bad about that?

Five things I have learned this week.

1. Next year the Big Ten is going to be the big three (Ohio State, Penn State and Illinois), the solid two (Michigan State and Wisconsin), the mediocre five (Iowa, Michigan, Purdue, Northwestern and Indiana) and the really bad one (Minnesota).
2. The NCAA needs to take complete control of all officiating.
3. If you are a South Carolina fan and see a Heisman Trophy candidate on your schedule, turn off the TV and bury your head in the sand because it is about to get ugly.
4. Michigan is worse than I thought (and that is saying a lot) are are darn lucky to be going to a bowl game.
5. There is absolutely no need for a playoff. A playoff would have ruined the excitement of such a wild season. How many chances would LSU have taken against Florida, Bama and Auburn if they knew they had a cushion?

>>>>OSU's loss does nothing but prove how weak the Big 10 is. There are at least 6 teams in the SEC who can beat OSU, yet it took this long for a Big 10 team to do it. GA, KY, TN, LSU, Auburn, and FL could definitely beat them, and I would even say they'd be favored in the contest.

Your arrogance is surpassed only by your unbridled ignorance of college football. This is perhaps the most idiot post that I've ever seen. Illinois would give each and every team in the SEC a run for its money-probably beat all but one of them.

oh - i wouldnt want to peeve any folks off, but imagine a 16 team playoff-week 1-8 games/week 2 - 4 games/week three - 2 games/week 4-
2games(champ game and 3-4matchup
to earn top 4 spots with 5 and up ranked by polls. top 4 teams would play 4 extra games. make season 10 games and all but 4 teams play same nu of games as now or less

Stewart, you're going to hold the Mountaineers' victory over Louisville against them? Have you not seen any of the recent LSU games before yesterday's exhibition? I thought you yourself had said that it was too late in the season to penalize teams for ugly wins.

West Virginia and LSU lost close games in which they were missing one of their key players (White and Doucet), while Oregon played well enough to win against a team that was good at the time. Kansas is undefeated but somewhat untested (which will change soon). Oklahoma and Missouri don't have as good excuses for their losses but still have chances to finish with better resumes than the other teams depending on what happens in the next few weeks. Luckily, alot can still be determined on the field rather than at the polls!

Personally, I'm pulling for an Oregon-West Virginia title game, but I'll be happy to see a matchup with any of the contending one loss teams (or Kansas).

The BCS game I am hoping for is Kansas vs. West Virginia. I think that these two teams are evenly matched and just a half step below Oregon and LSU. Neither team has a dominating defense and just might give the Navy vs. North Texas score a run for the money. That would be must see TV.

I just hope that if there is a blowout in the National Chamionship game, the masses ridicule and disparage the losers in much the same way as Ohio State was this year.

As an 8 year OSU veteran (who missed only one home game in those 8 years), I frankly was happy to finally lose b/c they're not #1 material and didn't want to see them humiliated by another SEC team (my brother unfortunately went to U of Fla). I'm happy to be playing for the Rose Bowl and hope to see them beat that team up North next week. After living through Earl Bruce and Cooper, I really thought it was going to be Wisc that burst our bubble, but those Illini played a good game..gotta give them credit.

Just to put this misconception to rest....

When noting that the "smaller" BCS conferences don't have to play a title game, it should also be pointed out that those with 12 members also do not have to play a title game.

The NCAA rules state that a conference needs to have at least 12 members to hold a title game. But they do not have to hold the game. The Big 12, SEC and ACC choose to have a title game, and the schools in those conferences reap the benefits of the game.

So please once and for all, spare me the rhetoric that the poor teams in the three conferences "have" to survive the title game. If you really think that it is unfair, call your respective conference commissioner and ask him to end the game. When he stops laughing, let me know.

Tired and more tired of hearing how tough the SEC is. Tennessee got creamed by Cal and may well play in the chmapionship.

Somebody in the SEC come to Columbus, We have open dates, please come....Miami, USC, Oklahoma, Va Tech, Cal....they're all coming, and we're going there. If we are so bad, take the 2 hour flight and come to the shoe. I don't see any takers....There should be exactly 0 responses to this. Especially from Gainesville because I don't think thier trailers have wifi, unless they steal it from starbucks.

will: Mandel loves the SEC, thats the difference.

As for ND, Weis is not going to be the one to take them to the next level. He might be able to recruit, but translating that into big time wins is another story.

PS, Don't you think Urban Meyer saw this coming at ND? Good choice on his part IMO.

OSU suffered a bad game. The Illini played mistake-free and the Buckeyes, for some odd reason, couldn't stop the rushing game. Illinois ran the same 3 rushing plays the entire game and the Buckeyes (who previously gave up fewer than 70 yards per game) gave up massive yardage.
You do have to wonder, though, how the game would have been different had the officials actually reviewed that fumble (and YES, it was a fumble) that led to Illinois' first TD.
But better to lose now and rebound before the bowl game. As I said when all the LSU/SEC whiners were complaining, you have to WIN all your games before you can complain about someone else being above you in the polls. OSU didn't, plain and simple. Good luck to whichever teams make it to the NC game.
GO BUCKS!

Will -- Whaaaat?
Missouri has the BEST loss of anyone. they lost AT 4th ranked Oklahoma WITHOUT their #i RB Tony Temple (who ran for 140+ yd. yesterday). And if MU wins out, they'd avenge their ONLY loss. On a neutral site MU won;t blow a late 3rd quarter lead again vs. OU (name the last team to lead OU in the 3rd quarter at Norman, Will?). Oregon lost AT HOME to now mediocre Cal team. LSU lost at a now mediocre UK team (and barely won 4 other games, 3 at home), W.Va lost to a now mediocre So. Fla team. OSU lost AT HOME to Illinois, whom Mizzou beat on a neutral field (and led 37-13 at one point -- the game wasn't that close). MU wins the next 3, they are playing in the BCS and will deserve it.

Mandel,

Thank you for finally, officially and legitimately admitting that all the sports writers don't have a clue who is the number one team in the country.

I believe that is the most accurate and honest statement you have made all year and I commend you for it!

Now maybe all the people who know even less than you can shut up and stop making claims based purely on speculation.

Last years "down" Big 10 went 2-1 head to head against a self-proclaimed far superior SEC.

Speculate all you want, head to head is the only true indicator.

Let us wait until after the bowl games to stake our claims on superiority. Then and only then you can gloat or crawl back into your caves until next year.

Regards to All!

1) Glad OSU is out of the NC game. But, looking forward to see OSU v. USC in 2008
2) Wouldn't mind seeing any of the following two teams in the NC game: Oregon, WVA, Oklahoma, Kansas. Can't see LSU winning out, because they'll lose in the SEC title game.
3) The Rose Bowl is gonna be boring. Given the ORegon wins out, the winner of ASU/USC goes to the Rose Bowl faces winner of Michigan/OSU. *yawn*
4) Does Notre Dame play Army? I hear they have the worst record among the three service academies.
5) My dream bowl games:
USC v. LSU (matchup of 2 preseason favorites, though Im certain USC will win), Oregon v. WVU, Oklahoma v. Hawaii, Cincinatti v. Illinois, Notre Dame v. Utah State, Georgia v. VaTech II, ...

OSU may not be the best team in the country (hard to tell who is), but Mark May has been picking them to lose all year. Please do not give this idiot any credit for picking the upset. He's been wrong most of the year!

OK six - if you're tired of hearing about how strong the SEC is, you have a few options:
1. Start a letter writing campaign to all of the PAC10 AD's and lobby for tougher schedules, more money and better coaches who can recruit.
2. Deliver some Lou Holtz-type pep talks to all of your players and have them step up their game.
3. Stop listening. The SEC has winning records against every BCS conference except the Big Ten (and even then, not by much - thanks CFDW). I'm sorry that the truth is what it is.

We will welcome Oregon in the title game. I personally wish it would have been USC, but we'll beat the Ducks all the same. BTW - we have a guy who is a little familiar with UO's defense, because he regularly torched them in practice (Crowton).

GEAUX TIGERS!!!

Nice to see that the Georgia fans are already making their plans for the SEC Title game and/or the Sugar Bowl. Kentucky will put that to rest when they beat the Dawgs next week. And then they're gonna beat Tennessee the week after that. Thus, I'm predicting a Florida - LSU rematch in Atlanta.

phork you moron I just have one stat for to shut your ignorant pie hole -

SEC 11 - The Ohio State University 0.

SEC teams already know the outcome so why bother making that trip?

Kansas will lose. Oregon and LSU will not. Dixon wins Heisman. (Knight gets legal rights to Dixon's eternal soul). Oregon beats LSU 42-28 in NC game. It all seems very clear to me.

Missouri may have the best loss of any of them (highly debatable) but they also have fewer quality wins than anyone, save that terror of the mid-west Kansas. Funny how the teams with weak schedules want to focus on losses instead of who they beat, but I guess they have no choice. A kansas fan on another post was actually trying to claim that Cent Mich and Toledo in the same season constituted a serious challenge. What a laugh. I guess so when you are kansas.

If (cause I don't know for sure) what Chris said at 7:33 is true about championship games I share his/her sentiment 100%. Just because your conference decides to hold a championship game isn't reason for another conference to do so. Nor does it give any legitimacy to your argument that it isn't fair or your attempt to oppress other conferences with the decisions of your own favorite conference.

Like Chris said, shut up and live with it or contact the commissioners of your conference.

Regards to All!

Kansas is a joke. No Oklahoma or Texas. Lets just put Hawaii #2.

to Kelly:

By Michigan standards, yes it has been an awful year. How many teams are there in the Pac 10 or SEC with 3 or more losses?

We deserved to lose each of the three games that we lost, without question.

Wins against Illinois, Penn state, Purdue, etc. and we are sitting 6-1 in the Big Ten and they have earned the chance to play for the outright big ten title this weekend.

Despite the fact that Michigan has won 5 big ten titles in the past 10 years and has finished in the final top 10 ranking six of the last 10 years ago, the '97 national championship and last year's 11-0 start seem like a long time ago.

Regardless I'll be in Ann Arbor this Saturday, section 34, cheering on big blue and hoping the spirit of Bo on the anniversary of his passing can help UofM turn things around against a very good buckeye team.

Conferences which hold championships give those that don't good excuses when they lose. Remember, the 51 day layoff was why the pride of the Big Ten, OSU & Mich, went down the tubes. Coaches can only teach timing in actual games, don't you know.

Yes, the Big Ten is legit...thanks for acknowleding that. i think i spelled that wrong haha.

To gobluebeatthebucks:

Good luck to that team up north and despite what the rest of the country thinks, we know the gravity of this week and its importance in the tradition of college football, even though we will be on opposite sides of the scrimmage line!

It's beat Michigan week!

Regards to All!

I realize the current setup makes the regular season very exciting, but how great would a play-off be this year?

Charles
Who are you claiming has "quality" wins? I'll bet they were all at home, too.

MU beat Illinois (currently in top 25). MU beat, no DESTROYED, both Nebraska and Texas Tech - scored 41 both times and held each to NO OFFENSIVE TDs, when each was in top 25. Nebraska won at ACC's wake, btw, funny how people have forgotten that since MU waxed them. MU DESTROYED Colorado at Boulder -- CU's worst home loss in 25 yrs. Aside from the loss at OU (to be avenged on neutral site!), and the 4th quarter garbage points by Illinois in the first game, NO team has been within 2 TDs of MU (and against A&M, Tigers could've added an asy TD at end, but...actually, I think they should have for so many reasons).

KANSAS is 10-0, Congrats!! I give them credit; HOWEVER, they don't have TEXAS, OKLAHOMA, or even TEXAS TECH on the schedule this year. For me, that takes away from them being in the top 5. They will lose to either Missou or Oklahoma should they meet them in San Antonio.

Also, TEXAS will play as an at-large team in a BCS bowl, hopefully the Sugar Bowl. With our offensive line consisting of true freshman, redshirt freshmen, and a sophmore, watch out next year when they have some experience! HOOK EM!!

Wow, Stewart. I retract everything I've said about you. You apparently had a change of heart.

KANSAS is 10-0. They are good; HOWEVER, they don't play OU, TEXAS, OR TX TECH this year. Hell, anyone could be 10-0 if they left those 3 teams off the schedule. They are a top 10 for sure, but not top 5.

Texas will receive an at-large BCS berth. Hopefully, it will be the Sugar Bowl so I don't have to buy a plane ticket! HOOK EM!!

LONHORNS ARE GOING TO THE ORANGE BOWL!

Tim you are a freakin idiot. The Pac 10 may have a soft non-conference schedule but at least they play Div I-A teams. Do you see Florida doing that. No..they play Div I-AA schools.Did anybody from the SEC play any tough non-conference schedule. NO they didn't. I'm tired of how everybody says how good the SEC is when they have nothing to prove it because their too chicken to play any real tough out of conference games

Dear Stewart,

How's this for a realization of your Oregon-Oklahoma rematch wishes: LSU goes down in the SEC championship game, Oregon closes out, and Oklahoma beats Missouri/Kansas in the Big 12 championship game. Doesn't seem like such a pipe dream any longer, does it?

Tim @ 8:06 kills me. As my grandmother used to say, "Well, if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black."

Pac10 needs to play tougher schedules? Excuse me? I'd like to try a little of whatever you are on. Maybe it'll make me believe in the Easter Bunny again.

Don't even give him that much credit, Big house. The Pac10 does NOT have soft OOC schedules by any comparison, least of all by SEC standards. USC starts next year at Virginia, followed by Ohio State at home. That's the norm rather than the exception.

The current set up would not be diminished by an 8-team playoff. The winner of Mich/OSU goes to a BCS bowl, the loser does not. Kans vs Missouri, and the loser is out, ditto the loser of the winner vs OK. Texas probably has the best shot at a second BCS bid even if it is OK to lose the title game. Tenn/GA vs LSU and the loser is out. Ditto the ACC championship. Only LSU has a remote chance to be chosen for a BCS bowl if it loses, but only because ten teams go. Limit that to 8 teams and LSU might not make it. Second place in the Big East is out. The PAC Ten may be the only one in which finishing #2 likely gets you in at this point.
Remember that Notre Dame and non-BCS schools have special rules to get them to a BCS bowl even if they finish 10th - 12th. What an 8-game playoff does is likely guarantee the very best team is one of the 8 and doesn't get left out like Auburn did a few years back, and other recent times when it was difficult to choose one of the 1-loss teams for the NC.
I just don't see how a playoff diminishes anything.

OK, I can't take this any longer. Mich was not embarrased, blown out or destroyed last year by USC. The game was tied at half and they lost by two TD's. If you think they were blown out you didn't watch the game, sheesh.

sfprman -- I was not aware that Missouri was missing a key player in the game against Oklahoma. It's been hard for me to follow Missouri since they seem to get alot less attention compared to other teams. I used the language that I did because LSU's only loss was on the road in triple overtime against a pretty good team (when a game goes to triple over time there are countless points in the game you can point to to say one team should have won earlier), Oregon's only loss resulted from a fumble on the last play that would have tied the game, and WVU, while not a one man team like Florida, is not great without White. I just meant that it's hard to rank Missouri higher than Oklahoma since the win was fairly convicing (and I didn't know about Temple) and it's hard to put Oklahoma ahead of Oregon or LSU. But like I said, luckily alot of this debate will get to settled on the field instead in these empty debates with LSU playing Arkansas and the SEC title game, Oregon playing UCLA, WVU playing Cinncinnati, and the three Big 12 teams meeting up.

Hopefully things won't be left to arguments about who played the tougher conference schedule. I don't think analysts can evaluate the conferences very effectively -- the Big East went 6-0 in bowl games last year (if I count correctly). You can interpret that as either the Big East is a great conference, or the Big East is a greatly underrated conference (assuming the bowl games are set to be somewhat even). I cite that just to show how silly these sorts of collective conference statistics can come out, not to argue for Big East supremacy.

Personally, I'm an SEC fan from Alabama but I can identify with the Ohio State fans: right now I don't think LSU deserves to be #1 and I worry about an embarrassment in the title game.

Bighouse, you are correct. The SEC teams may or may not be as tough as their fans think. But to claim the SEC is far superior based upon the amount of beating up on each other and then claim another conference is weak because of the same situation removes any credibility of such a claim.

Intra-conference parity does not translate to national superiority or the right to be ranked higher than teams with better records. If those teams have strong OOC victories..then ok, but this isn't the case for the SEC. Thats the reality and everything else is pure speculation.

Regards to All!

Charles,
You are right on. Everyone talks about tradition and all of the money the bowl games generate. They could easly name each game of the tournament after one of the bowl sponsors. And how could this not generate even more revenue than the current setup?

Well if the Big Ten is such a lowly horrible conference as most people seem to make it sound.
lets count up those bowl eligible teams from the Big Ten
Iowa,Michigan St, Michigan, Northwestern, Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Penn St, Ohio St, and Wisconsin
That would be ten teams from a eleven team conference that have atleast 6 wins....what a lowly conference they must be.

For Bighouse - Auburn played K- St and USF. USC played ND and Nebr. Miami played OK and A&M, I think. None of this was anything to cheer about, but the BCS teams that played two BCS teams ooc are rare.
The problem for the Big Ten is that they have measured themselves for a long time against ND. I don't see a quality ooc win for them this whole season. The SEC beat Louis. , Va Tech, Ok St, & K-St. Fla still plays FSU and SC plays Clemson. There is little doubt that the SEC body of work far outweighs the Big Ten in ooc. But if you claim the SEC work is still pitifully small I cannot disagree. With schools like Hawaii, Boise St in the Top 25 without a single BCS win and Kansas there with a victory over a 6-4 A&M team as its claim to fame there will likely be fewer and fewer big games ooc.

Perception is reality...lets play the who beat who game....WVU drummed Miss St, who beat Kentucky, who beat LSU,who in the eyes of the land is number 1...WVU drummed Maryland, who beat Boston College, who beat VA Tech...perception is whatever we want it to be...say what you want about South Flordia but they are 7-3 with wins over Auburn(who beat Flordia and should have beaten LSU) and WVU (see above) How did Michigan ever get back to 12 in the polls in the first place....How can USC still be highly ranked...they did lose to Stanford lest we forget...TV talking heads who have proved time and time again they know NOTHING direct the BCS band of voters..they could orchestrate a playoff with some cash...wake up College presidents...it can only enhance the opportunities for your student athletes and your universities...but the danger is still $$$$

Charles,

The play-off argument is a long time one with good points on each side. I personally feel that playoffs might reward teams who are hot in the short term or have a critical call go in their favor. Whereas rewarding teams based over the length of the whole season is more equitable.

Thats my personal view and if a playoff were instituted, I wouldn't be complaining either. You will then have people saying they should be number 4 instead of number 5 in the case of a 4 team playoff etc. etc. It would never end.

We have what we have and although not perfect, it is better than the previous decades.

Regards to All!

I'm also glad to see OSU out of the hunt for the title, and I'm a Buckeye through and through. That team looked in slow motion the entire day. We've been a step off each year. 2005 was the year the buckeyes were the best. But an early loss to Texas, and another to Penn State sealed the deal. But as far as great offensive weapons, and a tough as hell defense, that team at the end of the year was playing the best out of anybody.

I smell an Oregon, LSU match up in the makes.

Next year, OSU-USC should be fun, and OSU will be back to seek revenge against the Illini as they make their own title run...

BTW 5 Big Ten teams in the top 25...

One more thing, didn't UF in Zook's last game get shellacked by a team in the Big Ten that was the third or fourth best team? Iowa over Florida by a zillion points....

Bottom line with the SEC, cuz I have the guts to say it..... the South has the most blacks, and the blacks are the toughest and best athletes in the world.

They are stronger, and faster than us white boyz..... and many of the kids stay relatively close to home, rather than go up North to a Big Ten school...

Given that, I think the Big Ten does pretty darn well all things considered, given the recruiting that it has in the area.

Speak on this people....

For those of you (Mandel) who are convinced that Oregon-LSU is a done deal or that Ohio State is out of the NC picture, you better do your job and take a look at the remaining schedules of all the one loss teams. There is in fact a lot of football to be played.

Mandel's "nightmare scenario might go something like this:

-First of all, Ohio State wins at Michigan, preferably in a blowout.
-Kansas and Missouri play in two weeks. Obviously, one of them loses and drops from contention. Ohio State moves up a spot in the rankings.
-A very suspect West Virginia loses to either Cincy (road), UConn (home), or Pitt (home). OSU moves up one more spot.
-Far from infallible Oregon loses to either Arizona (road), UCLA (road), or Oregon St. (home). OSU moves up one more spot.
-Oklahoma loses at Texas Tech or at home to Ok. St. or to the Missouri-KS winner in the Big 12 title game. In my opinion, Oklahoma is the least likely to lose of all the teams ranked ahead of OSU.
-Teacher's pet LSU, a virtually defenseless team living on the brink of disaster, loses to either Ole Miss (road) or Arkansas (home) or in the SEC title game. OSU moves up another spot.

My point here is to not make a prediction or to hope for a miracle for the Buckeyes, but instead to point out that the season is far from over and that anyone who professes that the race is over for all but a few is jumping the proverbial gun. And remember, OSU only needs to be #2 to get into the NC game. It can happen.

Remember Buster Douglas. haha.

eric y-town,

I was thinking the same thing with regards to the Mandel "nightmare" isn't quite over. Only five teams in front of OSU have to fall and that isn't a long shot by any means.

The only factor that might affect the objectivity of such a scenario is the subjectivity of the voters involved. It wouldn't surprise me if they manipulated the final standings to keep OSU out of the title game even if everyone now in front of them drop another game.

The bigger question is what are they going to do next year if (speculation) OSU wins out convincingly and returns the 20 out of 22 starters expecting to return??????? OSU is in a rebuilding year and ranked 7 for now.....quite an achievement for any football program.

Regards to All!

swingguru:
No offense, but you are nuts! If anything, the weather is a bigger factor than race.
OSU may not be the best team in the nation, but it is not due to our lack of athletes. Heck Florida beat us last year with a big, slow white guy running right up the middle.

Buster Douglas?

For Eric y-town : I suspect that Leach's outburst will have Tech fired up for OK, but if Tx sneaks in they easily may jump OSU. OSU is a better team than any Big 12 North team in spite of the Illinois comparisons. Oreg probably has the best chance to win out, but put LSU there if Tenn wins the east. Even if not Fla is probably the only SEC team capable of taking down LSU. I just don't see GA having much more chance than Tenn. WV is suspect in the same way OSU was suspect, but WV is only in difficulty if there is a major let down. I see this as unlikely at this time in the season. If Oreg wins out and Ariz St does in dramatic fashion I could see Ariz St moving ahead of OSU for the same reason Fla moved ahead of Mich last year.
You are right about a few things. There is much football to be played and OSU is not out yet.

Youngstown: OSU lost at HOME in November. That's likely too much to recover from. And, your scenario is muddled when it comes to OU vs. the MU/KU winner. Plus, it will be Mizzou (who beat Illinois, so unless it's OSU vs. Mizzou, just be happy about beating Michigan and getting a ticket to the Rose Bowl (Pasadena beats New Orleans, anyway). vs. LSU in New Orleans...that's even worse. Mizzou vs. Oregon. THAT would be fun.

Chase Daniel and his receivers are amazing, it;s too bad the Big 12's TV package is keeping most of the country from enjoying them (regardless, Stewart Mandel needs to watch some old footage in order to get-up-to-speed).

Rayon Fog / Bighouse -

It's funny how you conveniently skipped over all of the rest of the sage advice which I gave to you, and instead decided to concentrate solely on the OOC schedule strength issue. Again, have your conference establish more of a history earning respect and winning in big games. Let's look at the history - all time conference rankings (again CFDW) - PAC10 is FOURTH, behind SEC, Big Ten and Big XII!!! Don't let your relatively recent success in the first half of this decade thanks to ONE team, USC (in which the SEC is a close second) cloud what I assumed should be college-educated, rational thinking.

But just go on assuming that all of us in the South are uneducated, and PLEASE, in your locker room pep talk, emphasize that the SEC should be underestimated. I will relish the outcome. If only we had some recent evidence as to what happens in the NC game when that occurs? Oh wait - we do.

If a team is undefeated, and all the others are not, is there any way to argue that they shouldn't at least get a chance to play for the crystal ball? Stop arguing about which conference is the best... it's impossible to discern. This conference debate is the offspring of a BCS system in which strength of schedule is the deciding factor in who plays whom for what. Lets play it off, but not until KU plays for the title. Go Jayhawks.

Charles. M

izzou beat Illinois on a neutral site MU led 37-13 until holding on, but it was over with 14 minutes left...AND that MU team has only gotten better and doesn;t let teams back in). Ohio State lost AT HOME a day ago. Ohio State may be better than 5 of the Big 12 North teams, but not Missouri -- for the very direct illinois comparision AND what MU did in every other game.

In the second game of the season, Mizzou also beat the hell out of Ole Miss IN OXFORD. Worse than any other SEC team did. Obviously, MU is better than any SEC team (okay, it;s not obvious, but based on head-to-head, how can one argue?)

BTW, MU played 2 BCS teams, neither at home, and won both.

SPF... You are right about misery. They deserve all the respect in the world, and I hope they get it so when KU whips the tiggers at Arrowhead it will vault them to number one.

wvu can put 30+ on the board against any team in the country. of course they have a suspect defense but you'd better be prepared to score 35 if you're gonna win.

Little Howie Mandell has wrote some ignorant drivel over the years, but to state that OSU was causing a national nightmare will teach him a sixth thing: the Buckeye nation has more alumni with more resources than all of the SEC combined (given that 75% of LSU grads cook fries for a living) and can bring on a boycott of his sponsors and beloved bowl games that will make both meaningless. We already have our Big Ten Network, we can publish our own sports illustrated, and we can finance our own bowl game system that doesn't include the RedNeck nation (e.g., SEC). The PAC 10, Big 12, Big East, ACC and Big 10 can have a fine bowl season while the RedNeck schools play each other and tell everyone how tough they are and why they have no revenues. If you want to make fun of us, fine, but just remember who puts the bulf of the $$ in your pockets and in the bowl revenues. It certainly isn't the RedNeck nation!

for sfprman - You wish to argue solely about Illinois vs Missouri & OSU. Such comparisons are too limited. Remember last year when Vandy played Mich and Fla, and told everyone Mich was superior.
I am not an OSU fan, but I believe that OSU is more talented than Missouri, and beyond that Tressel is the far better coach. Expert rankings confirm the first, and my guess is that my thoughts on Tressel would also be supported.
Illinois has struggled but finally convinced voters they belong in the Top 25. I think they are playing much better than they did earlier in the season when Missouri won in a close one. Illinois beat OSU in a game that could easily have gone the other way. Missouri has some good results, and they would be good competition for OSU. But if it is my money I go with Tressel and a much more talented team. I enjoy these kinds of discussions and hope you do also.

KELLY, I don't understand your comment about the NCAA taking over officiating in college games. The NCAA is a bunch of overpaid bureaucrats whose entire business is promulgated on the idea of rationalizing their existence. You would give THEM even more control than they already have over officials? Would you want the IRS to take control of your personal finances?

Also, a playoff system would make some sense of the chaos that is this years college football season (which I agree has added some spice to the mix). It would bring some order to the end of this years season. As it is, there will be enless arguing about who should have played for the NC, no matter who it is that does play for it.

The simple fact of the matter is this...

Kansas should be number 1.
Hawaii should be number 2.

They are the only two undefeated teams. They belong at the top.

With the release of the new AP and BCS standings, it proves that the ranking system is a crock, based on personal bias and needs to be abolished.

to Charles

Despite what happened in the bowl games I'd still argue that Mich had a better body of work through 12 games last year than Florida.

You must not have watched them play Vandy, South Carolina and Florida State at the end of their year. You'd think the Fla team was on a roll at the end of the year the way their coach went public with embarassing pleads for support. It obviously helped them a lot when Arkansas sent the JV team to play in the SEC championship game. Nice special teams play!

To Dink: Thanks for the acknowledgment about the game this weekend. Glad that its in Ann Arbor this year, we may at least have a chance to keep it competitive.

Brain. Melting.

People think college football is more important than life.

So sad.

And BTW, do you people not read Mandel's e-mails from every conference lover justifying how he hates their conference and loves another.

Cracks. Me. Up.

Mark

For starters, KU is currently on NCAA probation for lack of institutional control -- I think it's time everyone take that into consideration. At the least, as real punishment, they should be banned from any further discussion and hype. Regardless, However, MU will beat the chickenhawks by 4 TDs and this banter will be moot.
Hawaii? Please -- anyone who watched that SJState game would have to wonder how the WAC (or Big West? I can;t remember) is even Div. 1. Horrific teams. Horrific play. I love visiting Hawaii, I have several Warrior t-shirts, they're by far my favorite team in green, BUT, please, the Univ. of Hawaii shouldn't even ranked in the top 25 based on what we saw quite clearly vs. the spartans.

Doesn't this all just get to the joy of college football? We can all be a little on edge, or even semi-obnoxious, when posting to an online board (what bravery), but don't let it mask just how nice it is to be in the middle of fall college football. The games, the history, AND the debates make it all worthwhile.

Good for Zook. Good for LSU. Good for Oregon. And good for whoever else plays a good game and wins out. There are years to come my friends.

How in the holy mother does Oklahoma jump over Kansas in the polls. It is rigged, that's how. OU played the worst team in the Big 12 (Baylor) in Norman, and won like it should have.
Kansas played a decent and motivated Oklahoma State team in Stillwater, and won convincingly. How do the voters live with themselves? How does this atrocity happen? How does OU jump over Kansas in the polls? Thankfully, Kansas is still ahead of OU in the BCS polls, which I guess is the only poll that matters..WE NEED A PLAYOFF!!!

Little Howie Mandell has wrote some ignorant drivel over the years, but to state that OSU was causing a national nightmare will teach him a sixth thing: the Buckeye nation has more alumni with more resources than all of the SEC combined (given that 75% of LSU grads cook fries for a living) and can bring on a boycott of his sponsors and beloved bowl games that will make both meaningless. We already have our Big Ten Network, we can publish our own sports illustrated, and we can finance our own bowl game system that doesn't include the RedNeck nation (e.g., SEC). The PAC 10, Big 12, Big East, ACC and Big 10 can have a fine bowl season while the RedNeck schools play each other and tell everyone how tough they are and why they have no revenues. If you want to make fun of us, fine, but just remember who puts the bulf of the $$ in your pockets and in the bowl revenues. It certainly isn't the RedNeck nation!

Re-read that first sentence again...
Little Howie Mandell has wrote some ignorant drivel over the year

Dear Kettle... this is the pot... how's it going?

It's retard ignorant dweeb nutbar insanity like this that make me glad I'm leaving Columbus and headed back to the right side of the Mason-Dixon line.
And maybe dork-boy didn't notice, but there are several overlaps between ACC and SEC country (GA and SC, in particular), so there's a commonality of fanhood there that would certainly stick up for each other ahead of the Big 10 (how's that network working out, by the way...)

Finally, there's this:

http://strayvoltage.blogspot.com/2007/02/why-be-consistent-when-you-can-be.html

Dan Wetzel has this column about the open letter from the Big 10 commissioner. In the letter, the commish tries to say (in a roundabout way) that the Big 10 won't compromise their academic standards for football recruiting.
Big Ten bitterness - NCAA Football - Yahoo! Sports
Here's what it sounded like he was saying: His league won't compromise its supposed high academic standards to sign a bunch of fast, dumb guys, especially at a position that in the SEC is overwhelmingly played by blacks.

In related archival news, I've got this lil' nugget from February of last year, in which Matt Hayes regales us with the tale of a linebacker enrolling at Ohio State (a supposed paragon of academic standards, because it's in the Big 10) because he couldn't get into Florida (y'know, one of those schools willing to compromise academics for gridiron success).
Stray Voltage: The Sporting News' truth about academics
Matt Hayes at The Sporting News:
Player to watch this fall: Ohio State LB Larry Grant. A junior college star at City College of San Francisco, Grant originally committed to Florida last fall but didn't meet SEC academic requirements. He signed with Ohio State and likely will start spring practice at middle linebacker.

for gobluebeatthebucks - Fla played Vandy after the Alab, LSU, Aub, GA marathon in successive games. I believe the other teams you mentioned, FSU & SC (and Kentucky) all had successful bowl experiences. Michigan beat ND and Wisc, hardly a body of work to compare with Fla.
Fla was said to have the most rigorous schedule in the nation to start last season. A team simply cannot stay up week to week. Add to that the kind of physical beating Fla laid on LSU this year and you have an explanation how Kentucky was able to beat LSU the next week. Fla took some beatings last year, but rested, and without their best defensive player, laid waste to an OSU team that was supposed to be the best.
Michigan was obviously an accident waiting to happen last year, and the damage has followed them to this season. At best last year and this year Michigan is a good team capable of occasionally producing some very good results. But very good teams don't get kicked around as much as they do. I hope they produce some very good results this next weekend, but I read that they have collapsed again in many ways. Good luck.

Charles at 8:48pm:

You must not have watched College Football this or last season: Any team from any conference can beat another team. Remember last years Fiesta Bowl? Oklahoma got out classed by Boise State, a school with little history. Boise State could play a statement game against any Top 10 team in the country today, you know why? Because they are hungry..like Hawaii and Kansas..not like the old tradition fat cat's like Oklahoma, OSU, Michigan, USC..and ooops, ND...they are only talked about because of the $$$ for the networks...nutt'n more.

Charles,
you haven't watched Chase Daniel and Co. if you think OSU is more talented. Mizzou has the best receiving corps in the country, hands down. The two best TEs in the nation in Rucker and Coffman, speedy freshman Jeremy Maclin (touted for future Heisman contention), and (almost forgotten but very talented) receivers Will Franklin, Danario Alexander and Tommy Saunders. Not to mention a very solid backfield with Tony Temple and Derrick Washington.

Trust me when I say this, but everyone out there that hasn't seen Mizzou this year you really do want to see them in the big game.

Woody Hayes, just so you know, we make plenty of money down here in South: UGA was #1 in the NCAA for football profits AHEAD of both Ohio State AND Michigan, and Florida was in the top 5.

And frankly, I'm also fine with us not playing the Big 10. You may not watch any SEC games, but we've had more crazy, exciting finishes than any other conference this year. And at least our games are competitive (or did you forget the 41-14 shellacking in the NC?)

Anyway, as for some of the people making the "well Team A beat Team B who beat Team C who beat blah blah blah" you seem to forget that in college football a HUGE part of the game is emotion, and ANYTHING can happen on any given Saturday. As a Georgia fan, believe I know. We had zero emotion or energy against Tennessee and Vandy and we looked terrible. When we got the energy cranked we blasted Florida and Auburn (when they came out in the black, the stadium was deafening, and it got even louder when Cox threw a pick on the first play :P).

As for the fate of UGA and the SEC, i'm pretty sure we're not going to a NC, though nothing's completely out of the realm of possibility, but right now I'm more concerned with beating Kentucky next week. Sure we beat Auburn pretty badly, but as I noted above, I attribute a lot of that to how jacked up the team and the fans were because of the blackout and because, well, its Auburn and we hate Auburn. The Kentucky game is early afternoon, and I feel like a lot of UGA fans will feel blaise about it, thinking we'll win no problem after Auburn.

I dunno. Richt's pulled some crazy stuff, but I don't think he can pull it a third time.

Having a playoff would not "ruin" the regular season. Only 4-8 teams would be in a playoff (because you can't drag the season on too long). The fight over those 4-8 spots, as well as the conference championships, would make for some great moments and pivotal games. Only 1 or 2 loss teams would need apply, so in a season such as this (with many 1 and 2 loss teams), the regular season would be great! And we'd get the bonus of actually deciding the title game on the field.....

Matt

To Brant:
You got me there, fry boy. I guess you are saying that the ACC should be in the RedNeck nation with the SEC? I am sure they will appreciate that!

Regarding your point about fans outside the Big Ten sticking up for each other, you seem to have missed my point (do you hear that a lot?). I don't care if you stick together (and by the way--how did that Confederacy thing work out for you all sticking together?) the other conferences will be better off without the RedNeck nation because of revenues. Have you ever noticed how your big dumb cousins don't contribute as much to any family gathering as you do?

Glad to see you finally got the message and are getting out of Columbus.

I have to sign-off now. I have clients to see tomorrow and you need to go make those biscuits...

Therre's still alot of football to be played, and almost unlimited possible National Championship Game matchups, but the one I'd most love to see if Oklahoma vs Oregon. After the way Oregon stole a game from OU last year via blatant officiating snafus, a rematch with the championship on the line would be loads of fun. Boomer Sooner!

Hmmm. I'm an LSU grad and I don't prepare french fries. Well, to be honest, I do but only for personal consumption. I've done pretty well, and so did most of the Tigers I know from my graduating class.

Brant . . you have me in awe. Such research! Such unneeded research.

I have to go now and re-watch "Woody Hayes' Greatest Hits"

I want to see a playoff.

Yes, I know some people have claimed that the regular-season craziness wouldn't mean as much, but I call bull on that.

First of all, you still have to *make* it into the playoffs, which is plenty of incentive in general.

Secondly, there is the seeding arrangement -- sure, you might be able to lose a late-season game and still make the playoffs, but if the difference is being seeded in the first round against West Virginia versus seeded against LSU... well, which bodes better for your chances?

Thirdly, it would make at least some of the bowls (presumably the current BCS and New Year's Day bowls) more than expensive exhibition games -- there would be more national interest in watching all the bowl games taking part in the playoffs.

Finally, I think that while there would be some playoff controversy (there is always "bubble" controversy in the NCAA b-ball tourney), it would be more controversy about who might deserve to be "rewarded" with a playoff appearance rather than controversy about who has a legitimate title shot.

Even with an 8-team playoff, you could probably include all the consensus "best teams" -- a #9 unfairly left out has a lot less chance, in general, of making a solid run for the NC than a #3 team unfairly left out. With a 16-team playoff, it would even more be purely a "bubble" controversy rather than a "we have a real shot at the NC" one.

so, in mandel's sick, twisted mind losing benefitted Ohio State. yeah, and the titanic benefitted from the ice berg. apparently by losing and removing themselves from the national championship race, the Buckeyes have saved themselves the embarassment of being demolished by any other team that happens to make it there. we know the Buckeyes would lose badly because of their paltry 4-1 record in bcs bowls. mandel is nearly as bereft of integrity as mark may. incidentally glory dawg, the Buckeyes aren't 0-11 vs the sec. they are 7-10-2, including 1-0-1 vs lsu. 7-10-2 isn't great, but much better than 0-11.

sfprman-

The Mizzou-Illinois game was 37-34 with 13:48 in the game. I don't know where you're getting this revisionist history that it wasn't a close game or that "it was over with 14 minutes left" but that game wasn't decided until Eddie McGee, Illinois's backup QB who was in due to Juice Williams being injured, threw an INT in the endzone which would have given the Illini a 41-40 lead (assuming a made extra point). That INT was thrown with 51 seconds on the clock. So I don't know what game you were watching but that game was very much in doubt until the final whistle blew.

Brianmk3 is right about one thing. LSU is 1-0-1 against LSU. I was at the game in Baton Rouge when Earle Bruce and the Buckeyes beat the Tigers.

Dawg may have been thinking about LSU's record against the PAC 10. They are 11-2 against the west coast, the two losses coming to Stanford in the Sun Bowl and the famous Richter Scale game against USC in Baton Rouge (which, most agree, LSU would have won if not for a bad call but that is neither here nor there).

LSU avenged that loss to USC the following year by thumping the Trojans on their home field.

*shrug*

I meant OSU is 1-0-1 against LSU in prior post. My bad.

Howie Mandel is an SEC homer. Just like his brethren, Ivan Maisel.......

What a joke.

Stewie? You're a pinhead. If anyone has an tough game, they look weak. That is unless it happens to be LSU, OU, tOSU, etc. For tOSU to only drop to 7 after losing at home to an unranked team is a joke. To quote coach Green, "they are who we thought the were!" LSU has struggled as of late and the comment is "the only team that can be them is themselves." The writers need to get over themselves. If we've learned anything this year, it is that you don't know any more than the average schmuck. The only difference is, we don't get to influence who plays in what bowl game.

As an Ohio State fan I must say that I'm so glad that they loss. I was getting "being #1 fatigue" after last year and this year. Our champ run was suppose to be next year anyway. A 11-1 season with a win over Mich is more than a good season for me.

Poor poor Woody Hayes. . living in denial. "We have our own network, we have money. You rednecks sell french fries." If you're so disappointed by your own "short"comings, try dressing in the dark. What a crock, you moron.

What you SHOULD have engraved over your mantle of shame is a plaque that reads: "84 TOTAL yrds. For the ENTIRE GAME." 84 total yrds with the Heisman trophy in the backfield. And you're not embarrassed yet? Denial, man.

As for that "big slow white guy who ran up the middle on that great OSU defense", have you seen what he's done THIS year? With two more years to play? Tim Tebow is the man. And while that Heisman trophy winner- the one responsible for those 84 total yrds. .will be selling ice cubes ,if he can learn the formula, Tim Tebow won't be. Bet on it.

Denial might be a "river in Egypt" but to the Butteye nation, it's just a short hop into the Olentangy.

84 total yards. Cry me a river. You must be so proud.

(continuing to respond to Civil War references by tOSU fans)

That "confederacy" thing worked out just fine for us, Woody. Following the horror of "Reconstruction" the southern states became the "Sun Belt" with thriving populations, industry, and football.

That, in contrast, to where you presumably live . . "Rustbelt."

So thanks for the question, and by the way . . .

I grew up and live in Seattle.

Got a bigoted insult for me?

Small schools like Boise can get up for one big game a year. TCU beat OK two years ago, Tex Tech last year and played Texas close for a half this year. But TCU immediately lost its next game in each case. Fresno St got up for USC two years ago, then immediately lost the following game, as Boise St did the week after it got up for GA two years ago. Little schools can get up for a big game, but it takes the life out of them and they generally lose the next week. Boise St has tried to solve that problem recently by avoiding top schools during the season. I hear that BCS schools won't play the others but Utah has shown that to be a crock.
The Boise body of work consists of a 1 - 2 record against ranked teams these past three years. They typically rank 65th in recruitment and almost always play schools ranked even worse. That seems to be the real secret of their success. They got up for OK, but couldn't handle a poor team like Wash. Brag on them if you want, but soon we will make history with the two highest ranked teams with the lowest ranked schedules going at each other in Hawaii & Boise. Excitement, excitement.

MW

Your response to Woody is a bit harsh don't you think bro?

Florida torched Ohio State last year, no need to mock them a year later.

by the way, why is that classy coach of yours letting Tebow run around and then throw downfield last night for a TD at the end of the game when most teams would simply take a knee??? An answer of "because thats what spurrier would have done" is abjectly flawed.

To Charles:

Your point about strength of schedule last year is well taken, even if I don't entirely agree. Florida was not exactly finishing on a high note versus a Mich team that really was never close to losing last year before the game against the buckeyes. Despite appearance and opinion to the contrary Mich played the #2 toughest schedule last year. Whether it was stronger or weaker than the SEC schedule is obviously subjective but at a minimum it was a legitimate, competitive schedule.

Nevertheless your response was more civilized than most SEC slappies (including Mandel). Good luck the rest of the way.

Oh yes, we also learned that Louisville players do spit...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=DxuhMvmPftM

and later lie about it. Watch the Louisville player in the top right turn and spit into the face of #5. Classy place that Louisville! I wonder what else they teach?

For those who think the Big 10 is so much worse than the SEC...read this - you might be surprised.

Auburn is coming off a win over Tennessee Tech, which, for those who were wondering, is an actual team and not one that was made up for a television show.

A quick glance at Arkansas' schedule might lead one to think the Razorbacks were making a run at the Sun Belt Conference championship.

And what about Troy? The rural Alabama school has played enough teams in the big, bad Southeastern Conference to qualify as a junior member.

The SEC calls itself the toughest football league in the country, a claim that largely goes unchallenged in these parts and is certainly hard to dispute in a year when 11 of the 12 teams might wind up being eligible for bowls.

Still, a closer look reveals another, less-flattering explanation for all those gaudy records: SEC teams rarely venture away from home for non-conference games or play schools from other BCS leagues.

To put it bluntly, they've scheduled a bunch of patsies, a factor that should be taken into account at bowl time. Certainly, it's a lot easier to become eligible for the postseason when you have a 4-0 head start and six wins is enough to get in the mix.

"The reason we like to have at least seven home games is we sell all our tickets and we've got real big ballparks and we can make a lot of money,'' said South Carolina coach Steve Spurrier, one of the few who'll concede a less-altruistic motive in SEC scheduling.

For the most part, coaches and players toe the company line: The conference is so strong that it's impossible to schedule the sort of intersectional, home-and-away series that are popular with fans.

"You know you're going to have a top 10 schedule with the SEC teams you play,'' Georgia cornerback Asher Allen said. "The SEC is already tough enough.''

So, the schools are content to load up their non-conference schedules with surefire wins against teams from conferences like the Sun Belt, which is sort of like the SEC's Second Division.

Each of the eight Sun Belt schools played at least one SEC opponent this season, led by Troy, which only moved up to the top division in 2001. The Trojans faced Georgia, Florida and Arkansas, picked up big paydays at each stop, and left each with a loss.

In fact, Arkansas played three of its four non-conference games against Sun Belt teams (Troy, North Texas, Florida International), winning by a combined score of 170-43. The Razorbacks' other sacrificial lamb was Chattanooga, a member of the former Division I-AA.

Auburn is one of just three SEC teams that played at least two non-conference games against other BCS affiliated schools. Of course, both were at home, against Kansas State and South Florida.

This past weekend, the Tigers romped to a 35-3 win over Tennessee Tech, which normally plays schools such as Austin Peay and Cumberland. The Golden Eagles plummeted to 0-19 against major college teams.

"You'd be absolutely crazy to play four good non-conference games with the schedule we already play,'' said Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville, who can't help but wonder if it was worth it playing South Florida.

The Bulls pulled off a stunning 26-23 upset in overtime, which is probably still keeping the No. 17 Tigers down in the rankings.

"If we had played a team that we could have beaten pretty easy, we'd probably be ranked in the top five or six right now,'' Tuberville said. "But we chose to play a team that was a little more difficult because our fans want to see it.''

Next year, he pointed out, the Tigers open against Big East power West Virginia. However, they won't be playing anyone else of that caliber.

"Most teams like to have one very competitive non-conference game,'' Tuberville said. "With the other ones, unless you've absolutely lost your mind, you need to get teams that will play at your home and allow you to get guys healthy and play a lot of people.''

A nice way of saying pushovers.

Nobody in the SEC played it safer with its out-of-conference schedule than Arkansas, though embattled coach Houston Nutt said it's an anomaly the way things worked out. The Razorbacks recently played home-and-home against Southern Cal, and they've signed on for a two-year series with Texas beginning next year.

"It's just a one-year deal,'' Nutt said of this year's weak schedule, which could help the Razorbacks (6-3) land a bowl game even though they're just 2-3 within the SEC.

Whatever the circumstances, there's no getting around the fact scheduling has a lot to do with the SEC already having nine six-win teams and two others (Vanderbilt and Mississippi State) that are one win away from the magic bowl-eligible cutoff. Only Mississippi (3-7) is completely out of the postseason picture.

Even with the addition of a 12th game to the schedule, the SEC is playing only 14 of its 48 non-conference games (29 percent) against other BCS schools. The Big 12 is the only major conference playing less (11 of 48, or 23 percent).

By comparison, the Atlantic Coast Conference leads the way with 46 percent (22 of 48) against BCS opponents, followed by the Big East (15 of 40, 38 percent), the Pac-10 (11 of 30, 37 percent) and the Big Ten (13 of 44, 30 percent).

No one comes close to playing as many out-of-conference games at home as the SEC, which has seven stadiums seating at least 80,000 and likes to use them as much as possible. The conference has 40 of 47 non-SEC games at home (85 percent), the other being a neutral-site game between Alabama and Florida State in Jacksonville, Fla.

The remaining BCS conferences benefit far less from the home-field advantage: ACC (60 percent), Big East (65 percent), Big 12 (67 percent), Pac-10 (70 percent) and Big Ten (77 percent).

Another stat you won't hear the SEC touting is its 5-5 record against BCS opponents, with four such games remaining. That trails the Big Ten (9-4), ACC (9-8) and Pac-10 (6-4), and is just ahead of the Big East (7-8) and Big 12 (5-6).

Delving a little deeper, the SEC's five BCS victories have been against teams with a combined 25-20 record. No. 11 Virginia Tech (7-2) is the only currently ranked team outside the conference to lose to an SEC school, falling 48-7 at No. 2 LSU early in the season. The five BCS losses have been to teams that are 33-11.

The SEC is 31-0 against everyone else, a major reason its rate of non-conference wins (88 percent) is first among the BCS leagues.

"I can understand the reluctance to schedule other national powers, because week in and week out this conference is very competitive,'' said LSU coach Les Miles, whose team will face out-manned Louisiana Tech on Saturday. "Sometimes if you play an early opponent that's a national team, it requires every effort to get a victory and it may well slow the momentum of your season if you misfire.''

Then again, if the SEC is indeed the strongest conference in the country, shouldn't it savor those challenges?

Why don't we just make a super gee-whiz hot shot overlord all mighty football gods division that would consist of the schools formerly known as the SEC. They could play an 11 game schedule, have an 8 team playoff and crown the "Real" national champs every year. And the rest of us like OSU, Texas, SoCal, etc.. can fight it out for the "also-ran" championship. Then you wouldn't have to soil your football season with inferior yankee schools, and you could appoint Jefferson Davis as your honorary commissioner.

Matthew,

Thanks much for pulling together much of what most of us have presumably already read. That notwithstanding, it was interesting, and I do appreciate the effort that you put into it.

Unfortunately, it suffers for lack of conclusion regarding the Big 10, which you promised at the outset.

Could you clear that up for me?

Hey, thanks!

Sas

For Gobluebeatthebucks - I am a Fla/SEC fan, and see no reason to become uncivilized. Pride (and stupidity) goeth before a fall. It is enjoyable, and educational, to have an intelligent discussion. I wish we'd either set up a playoff or reward all BCS schools in the voting who play two ooc BCS games. Scheduling four powderpuffs, as Kansas did this year, and as LSU is doing next year, turns my stomach a bit. I do wish we'd turn to an emphasis on quality wins instead of this nonsense about it not mattering who you beat just so you win.

For Gobluebeatthebucks - I am a Fla/SEC fan, and see no reason to become uncivilized. Pride (and stupidity) goeth before a fall. It is enjoyable, and educational, to have an intelligent discussion. I wish we'd either set up a playoff or reward all BCS schools in the voting who play two ooc BCS games. Scheduling four powderpuffs, as Kansas did this year, and as LSU is doing next year, turns my stomach a bit. I do wish we'd turn to an emphasis on quality wins instead of this nonsense about it not mattering who you beat just so you win.

For Gobluebeatthebucks - I am a Fla/SEC fan, and see no reason to become uncivilized. Pride (and stupidity) goeth before a fall. It is enjoyable, and educational, to have an intelligent discussion. I wish we'd either set up a playoff or reward all BCS schools in the voting who play two ooc BCS games. Scheduling four powderpuffs, as Kansas did this year, and as LSU is doing next year, turns my stomach a bit. I do wish we'd turn to an emphasis on quality wins instead of this nonsense about it not mattering who you beat just so you win.

Hey Sas,

The point is about how "tough" the SEC is suppose to be, but numbers do not lie. Fact remains, if you wanna say the Big Ten is soft and doesn't schedule anyone...you might want to say the same for the SEC. Again...look at the SEC's record against out of conference BCS schools. Listen, I do not know who is the best team (maybe there isn't) but I do know the conferences are closer than most think.

The remaining BCS conferences benefit far less from the home-field advantage: ACC (60 percent), Big East (65 percent), Big 12 (67 percent), Pac-10 (70 percent) and Big Ten (77 percent).

Another stat you won't hear the SEC touting is its 5-5 record against BCS opponents, with four such games remaining. That trails the Big Ten (9-4), ACC (9-8) and Pac-10 (6-4), and is just ahead of the Big East (7-8) and Big 12 (5-6).

You guys need to step back a minute and think of what is being said.

1. Any of you who are OSU fans and say you are happy the Buckeyes lost, you are not true fans and should be ashamed of yourselves. A true fan would NEVER hope their own team loses, no matter the situation, be it OSU, USC, LSU, whoever....

2. If there was a playoff, would there all this discussion? Would there be all of this drama? Would people be sooooooo interested, and arguing, and fighting? THIS is what makes college football the greatest!

Is the BCS perfect? No. But if you did a 4 team playoff, what differentiates between teams #4 and #5? Eight team playoff? How much difference between #8 and #9?

There will always be controversy, beat it bowls, BCS, or playoffs.


3. OSU in the championship game was LAST YEAR. Why does it keep coming up?? Very different team now. Gone is the Heisman trophy winner, a RB in the NFL (junior), a 2 WRs in the NFL (junior)......its just a completely different team.

Last year was last year.

4. There is still a LOTTTTTTTT of football to be played. It could end up being OSU v ASU for all we know. LSU has been lucky all year.....does the luck eventually run out? Kansas v Mizzou v OK....kinda cancels them out. Oregon, well, good luck with those 3 games, because none of them is a cakewalk! WVU v Cincy....good luck there too!! OSU v UM....NEVER an easy game.

5. NCAA officiating and rules need to be consistent from one conference to the next. WAYYYYY too many discrepencies and interpretations. Officials should be rotated instead of assigned to a conference, and all games should be called as equally as possible. The Big Ten is a "physical" conference, so more holding is tolerated. The WAC is a "run and gun" conference, so there is more bumping between DBs and WRs, so they lax those rules.

NO! The rules are the rules, and everyone has to play by the same set of them. There should be NO difference between one game to the next, whose team has the favorable officitating, etc. It needs to all be uniform.





Let the season play out, and then when the final bowl annoucements come out, whine and complain. Until then, things change week to week, day to day, and hour to hour.

Yeah, I want my Buckeyes to get into the championship game. So does the Tigers fan, the Ducks fan, and everyone else.

But let the season play out, and let the chips fall as they may.

@ Evelyn

So OSU loses and it shows the Big 10s crappiness. And whenever an sec powerhouse loses, its because it is a great conference. No. An argument of "well...if you know...like they played each other...the sec teams would so win...so yeah" is crap. So is the whole switching schedules. Hate to break it to you all, but all conferences beat each other up. When you only play each other for 2 months thats what happens.

@ charles

At 8:48 did you claim Kansas State and Oklahoma State as quality wins for the sec? Does that make them quality wins for Kansas, too?

I know as of last week SEC was 5-5 against bcs conference schools. That isn't superior. Its average.

I don't hate the sec. Just get annoyed when people say its conference champion should have an auto-invite to the nc game. Its stupid.

How come the first post on every blog seems to be geaux tigers? Seriously.

Wow. Huge difference between 0-11 and 7-10-2. Super research with that 0-11 stat.

Liked how Woody had to go see "clients" makes him seem so sophisticated.

I like debating team superiority. I can tolerate conference debating. But I hate when idiots like woody bring up stereotypes and such. Makes everyone on his side appear dumber for it. And as I am on his side, glad he left for his "clients".

That whole Mizzu beat Illinois beat OSU thing is moronic. Its about matchups on the field. Illinois had favorable ones to OSU, doesn't mean Mizzu does.

Hey back Matthew,

Actually, the way you put it, I agree. I've never gotten into the "conference strength" debate much (only defensively) but you are pretty much right.

There is no way anyone can compare conferences really, unless everyone plays everyone else. That seems so clear, it goes without saying.

I think you are saying "all conferences do it" (schedule presumed "cupcakes" . . which in and of itself is an arrogant presumption (upsets happen!). I do see the SEC point about big stadiums and $, and frankly I admire teams like USC (who has a pretty big stadium) going against that and trying to find the best competition they can.

I'm for a playoff. Won't sketch it out, but could be done, and would help if preseason rankings don't affect the seeds.

Anyhow, good post.

That from an LSU grad/fan!

Sas

i just love how people have turned a simple college football blog into a North/South rehash of the civil war. We have come so far in 150 years, and what are we doing??? Arguing about which white boys can run faster than which black boys and who makes more money. I don't need to read about how the north brings in so much revenue, nor does anybody appreciate being called part of redneck nation... sorry, but it just doesn't accomplish anything. Save it for another blog if you hate part of the country.

Matthew, good post. As someone said, most of that has been brought up, just not all at once. Nor in that fashion. Conference power is, as many have said, cyclical.

Always wondered where this big 2 came from. Wisconsin finished top 5 last year. Would have gotten a bcs birth if there wasn't a conference limit. And in there bowl, beat a good Arkansas team from last year. That makes at least 3...

Woody Hayes blogger, you are an embarassment to all the loyal and classy fans that live within Ohio and the rest of the Midwest. All you have succeeded in doing with your small-minded criticisms of the South is to invite other criticisms in return. If anyone should be forced out of our beutiful state, it should be you.
However, a legitimate point has been made. It seems to me that some SEC fans would be happier if they had thier own national championship game, in which the "weaker" conferences were not involved. I propose two national championship games, one for the PAC-10, Big-12, Big-10, ACC, WAC, etc., and another for the "mighty SEC", which they can call the "true national championship game" for all I care. If these certain SEC fans don't agree with this perfectly logical solution, than shut the heck up and give the other conferences thier due already. GO BUCKEYES, BEAT BIG BLUE IN ANN ARBOR!

Ugafan, yeah makes me sad, too. Most people come here to talk college football with people as passionate about it as themselves. Sad people have to ruin it.

@ Sassan

OSU fan, and while not happy they lost, I am mildly relieved. People have been knocking them since everyone ahead of them lost and they took over #1. And as they said, this is a rebuilding year. I was hoping they would get the offense set and ready to go for big 10 so they could make the Rose Bowl. That is still possible. So my goal for the season is intact. Secondly, I know they didn't belond in the nc this year. I am a fan of college football as well. And I want a legit nc game. OSU didn't fulfill that want. Next year, barring any major early departures, they will. But not this year.

Even sitting in far away Oslo,Norway, I can see that the SEC is by far the strongest division in college football..The Big 10 should definitely change names! What a Gator player said last year is so true: "Any of four or five of the SEC teams could have beaten Ohio State today". This was not only modest..it was true!! Today's ranking should reflect this with LSU, Georgia, Florida in the top followed by Tennessee! The teams now ranked in between would be beaten by the SEC teams without a sweat!

Re: Colt Brennan and the hit

what's the ruling on helmet to helmet hits in the ncaa? the hit on Brennan was obviously head to head, almost to the point of spearing, but no flag was thrown and no ejection issued. I don't think it was necessarily dirty, but it was definately helmet to helmet.

Tab, last year doesn't relate to this years rankings. Simple. And while Florida might beat any team in the top 5, they have lost 3 games and their ranking must reflect that. Including Tennessee in that sweeping statement you made only lowered the validity of the rest.

That was, indeed, a vicious hit on Brennan. I could be wrong, but it almost looked late . . his forward progress was stopped.

I remember taking a hit like that . . no fun.

I see the NFL will now automatically eject players hitting helmet to helmet like that.

I frankly don't know what the rule is for NCAA play . . but it should be the same.

You guys all need to calm down

The SEC is considered the best conference because the level of play is MUCH higher..
1) We have the fastest athletes
2) The hardest hitting defenses
3) The best and loudest fans (Just go to LSU or UGA..or FLA and tell me the sorry big 10 or any other conference can match that intensity)

I'm a UGA fan and we are playing sick right now...Knowshon for Heisman next year! Well maybe not but who wants to play UGA right now? The Big Ten is terrible...even on TV it looks slow and pathetic...eat it all you haters

Posted: 10:59 PM by Woody_Hayes
To Brant:

I have to sign-off now. I have clients to see tomorrow and you need to go make those biscuits...



Woody, by clients, you don't mean... Human trafficking is illegal! I thought you working guys operated at night anyway ;~)

NCAA doesn't have a helmet to helmet rule. Or so said one of the announcers in one of the games I watched yesterday. Needs to be one if there isn't.

Daniel, your conference's "level of play is MUCH higher" to the point that you are .500 in ooc games against bcs conference foes.

First off, Mark May is a sanctimonious douche. Picking OSU to lose all year is about as profound as saying Brent Musburger is going to make a completely over-the-top, ultra-dramatic comment at some point during a broadcast.

The fact is, no one thought Ohio State was going to perform as well as they have this year. The fact that they climbed to #1 doesn't have as much to do with what they did as much as it has to do with what Oklahoma, LSU, Oregon, USC and everyone else didn't do, which is win. It's like everyone expected them to somehow relinquish their ranking like some shameful 10-year old who finds a $20 bill on the ground and then goes, "Gee, I really can't take this. Here." Were the Buckeyes the "best team in the nation?" Absolutely not. Are they a very good team? Absolutely. And for all the SEC blowhards who talk about OSU's weak schedule, don't forget that OSU went to Texas last year and smoked the Horns, and will go to SoCal next year to play the Trojans. Who does LSU play out of conference next season? North Texas, Troy, and TBD...who I hear is going to be really tough in '08. At least Oregon has the sack to schedule some challenging home and home matches. (Check their upcoming schedules.)

I, like many other Ohio State fans, got drunk off the Kool-Aid, but after watching some NFL today and psyching myself up for "the game" next weekend with the Rose Bowl still up for grabs, I'm feeling pretty damn good about a 10-1 record. This year is like one big game of musical chairs -- just pray you have a good seat when the music stops.

PS: Did I mention Mark May is a douche?

PPS: How much fun would the press have had with "Ducks vs. Bucks '08"

Isn't it funny how fans only remember bad calls against their teams and not the good ones that went their way? I'm referring, of course, to the Oklahoma-Oregon game from last season that some OK fans still can't accept. Some Oklahoma fans who were ACTUALLY AT THE GAME were quoted in the Oregon papers afterwards. They were very gracious about "THE HORRIBLE CALL" late in the game, saying that if the referees hadn't blown two calls in the FIRST HALF that led directly to 10 Oklahoma points Oregon wouldn't have had to even attempt an on-sides kick late in the game. Memory does funny things sometimes. For those doubters out there, go back and watch the ENTIRE game, not just the admittedly botched call at the end of the game.

The SEC could play all DIV III teams and still have a stronger schedule than the Weenie 11!!!!

Bighouse that is horse manure

Lets see LSU played Va tech, KY played Louisville, UGA plays GA Tech, Bama played FSU, USC plays Clemson, UF plays FSU, TN played Cal, Vandy plays WF, even Miss St played WVU. SEC football has size and speed across the board not just at the skilled positions. I know the facts hurt but even your coaches admit it by recruiting the southeast so heavily to make up for the slow feet of the Big 10. When you are strong from top to bottom relative to other conferences then it does mean something to say SEC teams beat up on each other. Get 6 other big teenie teams to step it up and we can say the same for you

Sectops, I noticed you included losses in your listing. List it off that way, ignoring if the team is even good, ie Louisville, you can make ooc look good easily. Simple fact is only ranked team out of the SEC they have beat is va tech.

Every conference beats each other up. They all only play each other for 2 months and someone has to lose. But somehow that is a credit to only the SEC.

The big 10 has 10 bowl teams. Is that stepping up? How about 5, near half, ranked in the top 25. Is that stepping up?

I am by far unbiased with college football..but I get so disgusted with the biasness within the sport. Mandel states that West Virginia, who received a number one vote was unworthy of such a vote. Oregon lost to who??? Cal?? Oh...31st in BCS. Oklahoma lost to who??? Oh, yeah, Colorado...could not find the mighty Buffs in the top 39...hmm, did I overlook them? Mizzou lost to Oklahoma...quality loss. West Virginia lost to South Florida who is 37th in the BCS...so explain how on earth Oklahoma can be up there with a sorry loss? And if the Big East is 5-0 in bowl games this year, or 6-0 then maybe the bias will go away some more. Look at the Big East with UConn, WVU, Rutgers, South Florida, and Cinci in the BCS top 39, that is 75% of the conference. The almihty, dont talk bad about em SEC has 8 of 12...hmmm, 75%!! Wow...do the voters really think the Big East aint beatin up on each other like the SEC?? That is food for thought but the Big East has adapted to Big Time college football as shown in bowl season last year...and USF's win over Auburn on the road. If the BE got the respect of the SEC then WVU would be #2 with more #1 votes. What say ye?

It needs to be said... the Fighting Illini saved college football!

>>>It needs to be said... the Fighting Illini saved college football!

Perhaps them and Kentucky. LSU is still the biggest illusion, farce, and pretender in college football. I cannot believe that they are #1. At least OSU hadn't lost while they occupied the slot. LSU lost to (not Florida, not Auburn) Kentucky?

>>>>The SEC is considered the best conference because the level of play is MUCH higher..
1) We have the fastest athletes
2) The hardest hitting defenses
3) The best and loudest fans (Just go to LSU or UGA..or FLA and tell me the sorry big 10 or any other conference can match that intensity)

Don't forget to include that (other than Vandy and the University of Florida) the SEC also has the lowest academic standards for athletes of the major conferences.

Hey marcus, your "Geaux Tigers!" post is getting old. You need new schtick.

Is it true that all LSU cheerleaders are either Heaux Tigers or Meaux Tigers?

GatorChomp,

Really? Lowest academic standards amongst all major conferences?

Sincerely, I'm aghast. I thought the NCAA HAD standards and applied them equally across the board.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting than the institutions of the SEC (other than the two you mention) are just meeting the NCAA minimum and everyone else is far and away exceeding them.

Please educate me. What particular academic rankings (for students or student athletes) prompts your assertion? Pleae be specific.

Thanks for whatever enlightenment you can shed.

Sas

yes, Netizen . . there are both male and female cheerleaders.

Good for you . . you are learning linguistics with regional semantical twists.

Congratulations

Still sitting here waiting, "GatorChomp" (a tOSU fan). Armed and ready!

Now that the "Civil War" Schtick did not work, you want to make it a matter of academics . . ok.

I'm ready when you are!

Ok, well guess that "gatorchomp" had his orgasmic post and has left for the doublewide.

As for me . . . I think I will go cook some french fries (for myself) and watch an episode of Ken Burns' "Civil War."

Really? Lowest academic standards amongst all major conferences?

Sincerely, I'm aghast. I thought the NCAA HAD standards and applied them equally across the board.

>>>Unless, of course, you are suggesting than the institutions of the SEC (other than the two you mention) are just meeting the NCAA minimum and everyone else is far and away exceeding them.

That's exactly what i am saying and that is being exceedingly generous. The lack of academic rigor at SEC institutions (other than UF and Vandy) is an open national secret in the academic world. I used to teach and conduct research at an SEC institution and wouldn't send my children there for a GED.

>>Armed and ready!

You are hands-down the most disarmed person in this thread.

Ah . . you are there.

So, your judgment is based on your "teaching experience" eh?

I've taught at LSU, University of Richmond, University of North Dakota, University of Puget Sound, Whitman College, Clarion University of Pennsylvania, Whitman College, Western Washington University, and others. I see no deficiency in academic standards in the South.

Send your children where you will for their GED's. Unless you make a convincing case based on some sort of recognized academic rankings, you are a bigot.

Got Rankings? Which?

PS: Why does a football blog (this one in particular) always end up about things other than football (politics, religion, race, and now education?)

>>As for me . . . I think I will go cook some french fries (for myself) and watch an episode of Ken Burns' "Civil War."

Once the Nascar circuit is over, turn off the television and try to read more. Most of the relevant literature on the Civil War and the underlying causes of it are available at any university library. It was never a nort-south gig as we have been taught to believe.

I don't watch NASCAR. I sail.

And please give references to your favorite literature on the Civil War. Shelby Foote?

There is a collection by another author you may not have seen.

Let's see if you can come up with the name.

'>>ve taught at LSU, University of Richmond, University of North Dakota, University of Puget Sound, Whitman College, Clarion University of Pennsylvania, Whitman College, Western Washington University, and others. I see no deficiency in academic standards in the South.

Then you are not looking. Where did you receive tenure and full academic rank? I cannot tell much from the above list.

You are evading the issue you raised with insults. Common bigotry.

What academic rankings lead you to believe that southern schools are inferior? Personal experience aside, I would like to know.

After all, with your vast experience and knowledge, you should be able to cite some empirical study proving your case.

To return the bigotry, I have no doubt that your children will be looking for the best chance to earn a GED if the theory underlying genetics is correct.

'>>ve taught at LSU, University of Richmond, University of North Dakota, University of Puget Sound, Whitman College, Clarion University of Pennsylvania, Whitman College, Western Washington University, and others. I see no deficiency in academic standards in the South.

Then you are either not considering the same criteria as I or you aren't looking. Most of the major NIH and NSF granting is made to institutions in the Northeast, Midwest, and Far West.

You base academic standing on those grants?

*laugh*

You need to read Kenneth Boulding's "The Grants Economy." Political spoils based on population density (and thus votes) do not make a fine academic institution.

On the other hand, LSU does pretty well in it.

Next basis for your rankings?

Now that we are getting serious, perhaps my favorite author is James Mcpherson, author of "Battle Cry of Freedom". I also like Douglas Freeman for military history sorts of things. I never read Shelby Foote but you evidently have. Is it worth it?

Incidentally, I'm not an OSU fan. I just grew weary of everyone beating up on them and am a bit tired of the SEC superiority thing.

Granting agencies...

Are you saying that they are a joke like everyone says?

Yes, Foote is worth the read. I've heard of MacPherson, but sadly have not read him. Given your comment, I will make a point of it.

And I agree with you about conference debates . . . silly.

No, I'm not saying the granting agencies are a joke. Hell, I've been the beneficiary of some of their largesse.

I'm only saying you can't really use grants as an indicator of academic prowess of an institution or a sports conference.

gotta go cook those fries (nothing intended . . really am!)

Good bloggin with you chomp.

Amazing at how civil things can become after the trash-talking has passed.

I have never thought that OSU was the best team in the country but most importantly I do not believe that THEY ever thought that they were, either, which is why I grew weary of everyone in the sports journalism working out on them because of last year.

Re: the SEC. this year I enjoyed the intensity of competition but in all of the games that I've watched LSU looks so "Beatable". They just look so susceptible to defeat by a well-focused team.

One last fact before I check out of this argument.

Largest concentration of PhD's per capita in a US metro area?

Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill NC.
Yep, higher that Silicon Valley.
And waaaaaay higher than Columbus. Probably higher than the whole %$#^ state of Ohio.

And Woody... before you try another "fry cook" joke, you should go find the list of major research institutions in Research Triangle Park.

But hey, I'm sure you're not going to let any actual facts get in the way of your personal prejudices.

Oh well, it's a rebuilding year anyway...........
KANSAS VS HAWAII, YEAH BABY!!!

The shame of it all is that I don't hear many folks clamoring for a Playoff. If there's ever been a season where no one has a clue who is number 1, it's this year.

Yet, big money talks and we'll still be left at the end of the year with complaints that some crappy team is number 1, when some other team was left out in the cold.

I'm starting to really hate college football

I will reply to Dink's comment. Dink said "Last years "down" Big 10 went 2-1 head to head against a self-proclaimed far superior SEC".

That is true enough, however, I would like to point that the SEC sent 2 teams to BCS game and both won by destroying their opponents. The Big 10 also sent two teams to BCS games and they BOTH suffered embarrassing loses.

For socnicklin - I listed OK St & K-St (along with Louis, Va Tech)as teams the SEC had beaten ooc that was a much better ooc record than the Big Ten ooc record. I also used the words 'pitifully small' to describe the SEC's ooc body of work. I did say that the Big Ten had no quality ooc wins, but to use that to imply I meant the 4 teams above were quality teams is a stretch. Calling the defeats of Ok St, K-St, Louis & Va Tech pitifully small obviously implies that Kans defeating two of them is no claim for greatness.
I believe that teams like Ok St, K-St, FSU and Illinois are teams that must be taken seriously, but they hardly qualify as very good teams and I cannot see them as the sole reason a team should claim a bid to the NC game. For Kansas to claim they deserve a bid when their most successful win is over a 6-4 A&M teams is amusing. At this point even most A&M fans do not refer to themselves as very good.
A sportswriter said it best. A bid to the NC game for Kansas means many more teams will schedule powderpuff ooc teams. I'm hoping for the sake of the sport no one else will get the idea that Cent Mich, SE La, Toledo and FIU constitute an ooc slate worthy of a champion.

It's true, if you look at the SEC team records, except for LSU and Georgia, they do all have 3 to 5 losses. What the PAC 10 fans, "Dink" (an appropriate name) and Big 10 fans, "Big House" (very original) fail to recognize is that all of our losses are against one another. A new word for your vocabulary, attrition.
Hey Dink, you may be right that the PAC 10 schedules a decent non-conference game each for the most part, but guess what? That's the toughest game on your schedule! PAC 10 teams would make nice homecoming games for SEC teams. You play each other and 70% of you flat out stink. Oregon is decent, but the Big 12 winner should face LSU in the title game.

What you should worry about playing in that consolation game they call the Rose Bowl. For as bad as Michigan is, they aren't the same team Oregon played in September. And the winner of the Ohio State-Michigan game will probably beat your Ducks led by Dixon. Either way I do not care, for both conferences are inferior to the SEC and the Rose Bowl is like watching the games on ESPN U.

Oh, and "Big House", that 2-1 bowl record last year is deceiving. Put our #1 vs your #1, #2 vs.#2, etc. and I see 9-11 wins in favor of the SEC. Ask Ron Zook which conference is tougher and more talented.
Ohio State vs LSU; Please! Buckeye fans will remember the good old days when Florida handed it to them last January.
Michigan vs Georgia; There is not a snow ball's chance, "Big House".
And I would put our #9 vs. your #3 or whatever matchups you like this year and be quite confident that your Big 10 would be flushed down the toilet like most people do with exrement.
Oh, PAC 10, I haven't forgotten about you and your big, tough conference schedule. Every team is on par with some high school squads we have in the South and Midwest. Your current front runner's outfits just wreak of identity and gender issues you all must suffer. Take away USC's tradion and your conference has a tradition of being the WAC's big brother who never bought into the concept of defense. Learn how to play a complete game of football, stop clinging to a random non-conference victory over the past five years and you'll then be taken a little more serious than you are now. If it weren't for USC and its tradition, you wouldn't be deserving of being a BCS conference.

For Eric y-town - In my response to your post about OSU climbing back up the ladder to gain at least the #2 spot I mentioned that both Ariz St & Texas might leap frog OSU. I glanced at the BCS standings last night and no longer believe Texas can leap over OSU, much less that it has any real chance to get to #2. Over the few years of the BCS we have seen occasional twists at the end, like UCLA defeating USC last year, but I have seen nothing to suggest that OSU has much chance to climb too much higher. Still OSU is at least theoretically in the hunt.

I'm sorry to any Kansas fans but I took at look at their schedule yesterday and I almost laughed!!!! They do belong somewhere and that's in the same place as Hawaii who has also played a bunch of nobody's!

And LSU has played a slightly tougher schedule than Kansas but I don't understand how you can barely win a bunch of times to window lickers and get respect! This isn't the NFL where a win is a win! People are forced to evaluate and rank you on how you play, who you beat, how bad you win, etc....

Anyone who watches the games on TV would see that Oregon is the best team in the country right now! LSU and Kansas wouldn't beat the Pac-10's number 2, 3, or 4 team!

For no comment - No, there is no clamoring for a playoff. We're too busy pointing out that Toledo beat Kansas last year so this year's game became a special, challenging game for Kansas. Texas circled OK to start the season. Mich circled OSU, Fla circled LSU etc. So now I hear that Kansas circled ... Toledo. Next year Mich will not circle OSU, but will circle Ap St should they play, making that game another difficult ooc game for Mich.

RE: Posted: 12:15 AM by Matthew

I'm not going to deny that UGA (and other SEC schools) play a lot of home games because they get paid well, former UGA coach and AD Vince Dooley has said that for 20 years. It's not a revelation - it's hard to give up $8MM+ a weekend in profit because it's what you use to keep your athletics department solvent and never dip into educational funds at an SEC school. Most college athletic departments in the country run in the red and use tax payer money to make up for it.

However, to scoff at the UGA out-of-conference play is a bit overboard. This year they faced the OSU Cowboys (and killed them) and the Troy Trojans (and killed them) and next the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets (hopefully we'll kill them too). Two BCS conference teams and all Div-1 teams (Troy wins their conference championship every year it seems). I'm not sure what planet you hail from but that's a pretty respectable OOC schedule - sure it's not USC or Michigan but don't dismiss it. And this is a UGA team that choked against South Carolina and forgot to show up against Tennessee and still is killing their OOC games. So the SEC is indeed a very difficult place to play and the team that comes out on top in that conference usually performs pretty well on the national stage (see last year's UF/OSU game... that was a UF team with a loss in conference play). Here are the numbers through 2006-2007:

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/
data/rankings/
all_time_conf_rankings.php/

OK - Let's keep this simple...

BCS poll:
Kansas #3
Oklahoma #4
Missouri #5

Whoever wins the Big 12 Championship game has beaten 2 top 5 BCS teams the last couple of weeks and should go to the National Championship!

WVU deserves to be in the conversation as much as any of the other teams receiving votes. Louisville may be down this season, but that is a serious rivalry game and WVU posted the win.
This is another example of your Big East bias. A rivalry game loss in the SEC doesn't hurt so much and a win is HUGE. Parity in the Big East just means to you none of the teams are very good, as opposed to the far superior SEC.
By the way, what has Miss. State done in the SEC since WVU stomped them silly?
The Mountaineers can play with any team in the SEC and I hope they get a chance to prove it in January.

Let's just hope we get the ducks and the sooners in the BCS championship game. And please, have the same pac 10 officiating crew who worked last year's game. Just set the score the same, and replay the last 2 minutes starting with Oregon's onside kick, to determine the national championship...

I'm an ACC fan. To all of you OSU fans that invite the SEC to a home/away regular season match up...good luck. You are 0 and 8 against SEC teams. I think it's safe to say that OSU can't beat an SEC team.

For servant63 - Your comment that whoever wins the upcoming OK, Missou, Kans marathon should leap into the NC game is interesting. Neither Boise nor Hawaii have beaten a BCS team this entire season, but I suspect that the winner of their upcoming match will make the same claim you have. The winner will either be undefeated, or have one loss, and have just beaten a great top 25 team. I think the similarities between Boise St, Hawaii, Missou, and Kansas don't end theree.

So much smack talk between Big 10 and SEC...as usual. As a misplaced Razorback with SouthWESTConference roots, I can't get too excited about either, except when the Bucks beat Texas. I will say this. Having lived in Columbus for ten years, this has not been a huge rahrah year for the Bucks. Was supposed to be a rebuilding year, and their success to date has really been a tribute to the team and coach. They have conducted themselves with class all season long.

That being said, what happened Saturday is good for the Big 10. (Other than being foolish enough to dance on the "O" on senior day after the game...) I think the Big 10 needs some other changes...another team and a championship game, and moving the OSU-UM game by at least a week. To overlook the negative impact of the current situation is ignoring reality. Look for some great Bowl games and new strength next year.

Here's one thing I really like about Tressel...aggressively scheduling out of conference games with solid teams. That's what the rest of the Big 10 needs to do aggressively. That's the reality of the BCS. Take the risk and mix it up. If you can't do that, why spend the $$ associated with a national program? Between the top five teams in each conference why don't we have at least three strong matchups a year? Good for everyone.

I think the SEC has the strongest conference with the most depth, heavily populated with fratricidal-schedules and whiners. I hope Bowl Committees can go out of their way to put as many Big10 SEC matchups together as possible. Let's see what happens.

It's a shame the Hogs don't have a strong QB this year, hats off to DMC and FJ, but they can only do so much. Probably need a new coach as well.

It would be better for Georgia not to win the SEC championship. Doing so would not push them any further up the rung of the standings, and it would prevent LSU from a bonafide shot at the national title...something the Dawgs have no chance of doing no matter how good they are. So let Tennessee win out along with GA and LSU. Pity the team that runs into LSU on that championship evening.

Ding Dong the Witch is dead! No worry of another wannabe, over-hyped Ohio State team getting buzz-sawed in the national championship game...

It's time the Big 10 and Ohio State realized their place in the world of college football is over! Ohio State already won their real championship, their the champions of Ohio, after beating Akron, Youngstown State and Kent State (sorry you weren't included, Cincinnati (a loss if Ohio State had to play them).

It's time to fix the BCS once and for all if we're not going to have a real playoff series that means anything.

2 quick fixes: 1)NO MORE CREAM PUFF TEAMS on the schedule. BCS conferences should play BCS conferences. No more Kent States, Ohios, or Akrons on the Ohio State schedule. SEC, Big 12, PAC 10, ACC, or Big East. Real games for Real teams... That's 65 teams to schedule against, over half of the 119 teams in FBS (Division 1A).

2) Each conference should have a championship game to send the best each has to offer to 3 BCS games and then have the At-Large bids from there...

Common sense needs to be injected into college football somewhere...

to ohiorzrback - i hardly call youngstown state, kent state, washington, and akron an aggressive out of conference schedule.

Ohio State is the weakest top ten team. by far. Boeckman is an interception machine.

The fact that ohio state was number 1 is amazing considering the amount of talent lost last year on the offensive side of the ball. This was suppose to be a rebuilding year and yet they still played their way up to number 1. WOW! You Do the math with all the conferences versus BCS opponents. Guess Who is dead last verse those BCS teams? none other than the vaunted SEC. Who is first? The BIG 10, so that means the Pac 10, The Big Least, ACrappyConference (ACC), Big 12 are ahead of the Sec. Wow go figure. Les Miles has pulled more rabbits out of the hat than freaking david blaine this year. Bad coaching catches up to you sooner or later. Fact is football will always be more important in OHIO. Why? Ohio is the birthplace, thats why. So to all those Sec teams, big 12, Pac 10 schools, We play in the elements, you boys can't do that like we do. EVer wonder why Ohio has more coaches from our state than anyone...HMMM
Urban Meyer, The SToops brothers, Mark Mangino, Al Groh, Les Miles, Paul Brown, Woody Hayes, Bo Schembechler, JIM Tressel, Bo pelini, Ron Zook, Glen Mason, Terry Hoeppner (RIP), just to name a few. Their are so many others. Remember football is a religion here because it originated here. Don't ever forger that.

nathan. you do the math. when your conference hasn't had bcs ranked teams (until this week thank god) in your conference then you don't play them, and you don't lose to them. When there are 4 bcs ranked teams in the SEC east alone, you play them every week. Nice try Nathan.

nathan, your like all big 10 fans......who cares what happened 100 years ago. OSU has ZERO wins in EIGHT trys against that SEC. ZERO! Ever wonder why every team has players from Georgia on their roster. Hey, you've got one. He likes man-hookers. See, in Georgia, football players have women lined up at the door. I guess in columbus, a player has to pay for sex.

Stonefly, this is an off year on scheduling. The three teams you mention are not strong. Would like to see Cincy on the schedule regularly to develop an in state rivalry. Here's what I'm talking about: Back to back with Texas, USC in 08-09, U of Miami in 10, and I think VaTech and Oklahoma are on the schedule, which puts us way out to 2015. That's about all you can do, given how far these games have to be scheduled in advance. Bet on traditional powerhouses, you'll hit and miss the mark...Sooners rising, Hurricanes falling, but with enough time that both schools could change momentum. What do you think?

ohiorzrback - I agree. UGA scheduled Colorado when the were top 10 material. Then we played them down. We boooked Boise state and everyone thought we would get our a55's kicked. We killed them. We have Arizona state next year. We also play LSU (away).

It's nice to hear an objective and factual football fan. Most OSU fans i meet bring up completely subjective topics. Let's talk facts people.

The Illini made some simple mistakes this year based on inexperience that lead to their losses. As they were on no one's radar all year it should be noted that:

1. Lost to MU on opening day with a drive that died at the goal line with an interception in a six point loss.

2. Lost to Iowa by four after a ineligible receiver call brought back an 85 yard TD pass with about six to play.

3. Lost to Michigan after a punt was dropped at their own five that converted to 7 immediate points with minutes to play.

All teams can benefit from some good bounces, but rarely do three plays swing a season so clearly.

Wouldn't it be great to be Zook if this is all he has to fix to go undefeated. Illini are BCS bound next year. We need a new Orange and Blue team in the BCS anyway...

For Charles~

I don't see the comparison with the Big 12 Champ with Boise St./Hawaii... Although - Kansas Schedule Rank (97) is closer to that of Boise St (122) and Hawaii (157) - Missouri (52) is pretty respectable - considering the Ohio State darlings is (55) and West Virginia is (50).....

There are a few observations I'd like to make.
1) LSU may be strong, but Oregon should be #1 (LSU's definitely #2). Last four LSU games: barely beat Florida, lost to currently #23 Kentucky, barely beat Auburn and Alabama. Last four Oregon games: blew out both Washingtons, never trailed vs. still-good USC, and won over then-#6 ASU handily. LSU is ripe for an upset, if not Arkansas then Georgia.
2) Ppoint against Charlie Weis: Ty Willingham may not have recruited well, but his teams were disciplined. They knew what they had to do at each position. Weis has seemingly been unable to teach his brand-new ball club the ins and outs of their game.
3) Point in favor of Charlie Weis: that recruiting class. How they are staying committed is a little beyond me, but they must see something in this team. The majority of the starters are freshmen/sophomores, meaning the 2010 squad could look awfully good with these recruits in place.
4) Ambiguous stat about Charlie Weis: hired by the Pats in 2000. The following draft, Tom Brady is picked 199th. When Charlie leaves in '04, he brings three Super Bowl rings with him while Tom Brady is far and away one of the top two QB's in the NFL. Who was the offensive coordinator/ quarterbacks coach during this time? Charlie Weis. The question is: how does that translate (if it even does) to the college game?
5) Who cares about Notre Dame? I do. I'm a student. And I'm pulling a Mark May and calling a title game berth in 2010, given that the recruiting class holds out.

This all shows why we need a system that rates the "Raters". The US Army does this for their ratings of officers. If a rater rates badly his/her rating strength goes down. The good raters should be noted for how they do. The bad ones would eliminate their influence over time.....

One thing we learned this weekend:

1.) UM is over rated!!!

Stonefly, one team I forgot to mention was Washington and their past record. This also matches the rise and fall of teams you mentioned. For the Buckeyes to play Washington in 2007, the game was probably scheduled ~2000. Their record from 99 to 02: 1999-7-5, 2nd in conference; 2000- 11-1, tied 1st in conference; 2001- 8-4, tied 2nd in conference; 2002- tied for 4th in conference. Cheers.

I'm sorry. No team that plays (and beats) the likes of Youngstown State, Akron U and Kent State should claim any rights to a NC.

Send OSU to the SEC and lets see how they fare against LSU, FL, TN, Auburn, GA, etc. week after week.

Quotes: Just for Fun !
Paul Brown:
I can't stand it when a player whines to me or his teammates or his wife or the writers or anyone else. A whiner is almost always wrong. A winner never whines.

Bobby Knight:
Absolute silence: that's the one thing a sportswriter can quote accurately.

Rodney Dangerfield:
I went to a boxing match the other night, and a hockey game broke out.

Alex Karras:
If medicine has made so much progress in the last 30 years, how come I felt better 30 years ago?

Bear Bryant:
First year, a .500 season. Second year, a conference championship. Third year, undefeated. Fourth year, a national championship. And in the fifth year, we'll be on probation, of course.
[Outlining a five-year plan for success]

Woody Hayes:
You don't get hurt running straight ahead. . . three-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust offense. I will pound you and pound you until you quit.

Statistics always remind me of the fellow who drowned in a river where the average depth was only three feet.

Howard Cosell:
There are two professions that one can be hired at with little experience. One is prostitution. The other is sportscasting. Too frequently, they become the same.

Walter Camp: Father of American Football:
A gentleman never competes for money, directly or indirectly. Make no mistake about this. No matter how winding the road may be that eventually brings the sovereign into the pocket, it is the price of what should be dearer to you than anything else, your honor.

A gentleman is courteous. It is not courtesy upon a ball-field to cheer an error of the opponents. If it is upon your grounds, it is the worst kind of boorishness. Moreover, if there are remarkable plays by your rivals you yourselves should cheer; conceal any chagrin you may feel at the loss it may be to your side, but be courteous to appreciate and applaud an exceptional play by the opponents.

I am an OSU fan. I think the Buckeyes are a good team, but I didn't think they were #1. However, next year with just about everyone returning, we should be in line for a legit run at the title. The Buckeyes play at USC next year and then USC comes to the 'Shoe. I would like to see how many SEC teams would come to the 'Shoe? Probably "0" because they don't want to be the one team known for losing SEC's image as the dominant conference.

I wouldn't mind seeing any of the following three teams in the NC game:
LSU, Oregon, Oklahoma.

Oregon and Oklahoma would be awesome, given the irregularities in the matchup last year :)

Kansas, although playing well, haven't had any tough opponents for them to qualify for the National Title. Also, I think they will lose one or both of their games with Mizzou and/or OU.

As for my school, Bama, I don't think there is any consistency yet. One week we give LSU a run for their money and next week we lose to MSU. Its been the same story since the Shula years. Hopefully Saban, will do something better, but I am not believing the hype until he actually does something in Alabama (everyone knows what he did @ LSU in the past) but its the present that matters !!

Is it just me or does a good "not great" winning team deserve a little more credit that what it is getting. Hawaii might not be a powerhouse team but they are undefeated. To me that is better than a 7-3 Florida Gator team any day. I wonder if the critics really believe that a quality
team can be 8-2 or 7-3. Give credit where credit is due. I would hate to see the Heisman winner finish out side of a BCS bowl game.

The overall record of Ohio State vs the SEC is 7-10-2. Not great, but not 0-10 or whatever you here mentioned here.

Research funding is a entirely rational way of evaluating the strength of a university. We should see the new ratings from the Nationa Research Council at the end of the year-- and if past history is any guide there will be a strong correlation between their ratings and the amount of grant money a university brings in to support research.

Hard to believe we're winding down the regular portion of the season As a life long time Wolverine fan and now transplanted to ACC country (Wake Forest), it has been a helluva season. A few reflections.... I live about 70 miles from Appalachian St. and it was nuts around here after they beat UM. As bad as that was, the real shocker for me was the way Oregon destroyed the Blue in Ann Arbor. Therefore, they get my vote to play in the NC game...if they win out. Even though they're getting trashed this year, I still love my Maize and Blue, and this Saturday I'm gonna get my six pack of Mikes Hard lemonade, pizza, chips and watch the greatest rivalry of them all...GO BLUE!!

Stewart, please do not compare yourself to Mark May - you are far greater! Mark May also said he thinks USC should still be in considered for the national championship. He also argued the last two years that Notre Dame had a weak schedule because the ranked teams they beat didn't finish the season ranked - yet all he talked about Saturday was how Oregon's only loss was to a "Cal team that was ranked number five at the time" - last I checked Cal isn't ranked

One more thing. Ohio State's schedule this year was an aberration. It is pretty hard to accuse a team that just finished a home-and-home with Texas, and has scheduled home-and-homes with USC, Miami, Virginia Tech, and Oklahoma of ducking competition.

Hey Matthew at least include a link when you copy and paste someone's article:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2007-11-07-2348899520_x.htm

It's a good thing Carroll decided to not kick the FG against Stanford.

To Stonefly:

Since you seem to have some knowledge of historical facts, referencing Ohio State's record against the SEC, you probably also know that Lloyd Carr is 5-2 against the SEC including bowl wins over Bama, Auburn, Arkansas and the mighty Gators. Lloyd is also 17-8 against top ten teams.

Despite the humbling brought on by the loss to Appy State I'd stand by Michigan's program (Lloyd Carr era included) versus nearly anyone.

Michigan has won a national championship and 5 big ten titles over the past ten years, though admittedly some of that success, along with the 11-0 start last year seem like a long time ago.

With any luck Lloyd will increase his big ten titles to 6, improve his record against top ten teams to 18-8 and most importantly, give Ohio State the chance to go to the Capital One bowl and get there first win over an SEC team!

Finally, why was Urban Creyer allowing Tebow to run around and throw downfield Saturday night when the game against South Carolina was all but over? Most schools who simply have taken the knee. An answer of "well, that's what Spurrier would have done" is abjectly flawed.

Please nothing more about how great the SEC is, we get it.

Everyone on this board is ranting and raving about conferences (SEC vs PAC-10 vs Big 12 vs Big 10 vs ACC vs Big East) etc, etc, etc. Then yall go on to talk about this team losing to that team and this team beat this team that lost to that team..Then you go on to talk about schedule strength. Let me say this..who cares!!! You don't get a National Title because your conference is the best, you don't get a Heisman Trophy because your conference is the best. The National title goes to the Best College team that wins it! The Heisman Trophy goes to the Best College player..period. If you run the table with the schedule that is put in front of your, you will get your shot at the National Title. I really like college football this year because I seriously have watched more of it this year. In the past, you knew who was going win the games and go play for the National Title and the bowl games were predictable..but now the college teams have to bring your A-game every week! When people say a certain team is down and they are not as good as they were..I beg to differ with that because now you have parity in college football. You have parity because the best high school players are willing to go to other colleges to showcase their talent. My remedy for a true National Title is for All Division 1 FOOTBALL conferences to have a title game. Then you make a bracket like college basketball. Then the final four team will play in the 4 BCS bowl games. Then the winner of those bowl games play for the championship! Problem solved! And yes I know my Auburn Tigers are 7-4 right now. They were predicted to finish 6-6. But as with Florida, Alabama, they are young. Just look at all these teams rosters and you will see they are playing a LOT of freshman, sophomores and they have few seniors. These are the teams that will be int he TOP-10 next year. (Florida, Alabama, Auburn). Don't worry Coach Tuberville will be back because he is looking at the cupboard at Auburn and he is set! WAR EAGLE!

I know the football world is aligned correctly when I see an SECer use a NASCAR metaphor in referring to the sport whose highest level stars are ensconced in CANTON

It is silly to think one team is better than the other or one conference is better without head-to-head matchups on neutral sites.

I am an LSU fan. Thanks for reading!

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE POSTS IS THE REASON WE NEED PLAYOFFS TO PUT ALL THIS SENSELESS TALK TO REST

Ok, is the SEC the best conference in the nation?? Probably but not by leaps and bounds. Certainly not enough so that barely beating Alabama in the last few minutes, and Florida and Auburn in the last seconds at home grant them greatness!! No way do i put them ahead of the Ducks, or even Kansas should they win out. If Kansas should lose and LSU win out then yes let them play for the title. As far as them getting there on the merits of the conference. Kentucky slips past Louisville on a busted coverage in the last minute and its a quality win for them... WVU fumbles away a 17 point lead after the offense goes on cruise control and still manages to win and its an endictment of the Big East. Maybe a little bias here ppl.

The comparisons of academic strength between universities is hilarious -- stop kidding yourselves if you think college football is anything other than the NFL's minor league (that somehow gets by without paying its players).

I haven't paid much attention to the comments before but these ones really make me appreciate Mandel's writing -- he managed to write five substantive things about this week's games without any mention of relative conference strength.

I guess I can always hope that if the Big Ten and SEC fans beat their chests hard enough they will eventually knock the wind out of themselves.

The new BCS and AP rankings have officially made the sport of college football a crock.

Kansas and Hawaii are undefeated and should be ranked numbers 1 and 2 respectively. A win loss record is the number one thing the rankings should be based on, not personal bias.

It's starting to get ridiculous with all of this "which conference is better?" crap. I realize the Big Ten is having a down year, and the SEC is deeper than usual this season. But before all of you Big Ten haters really start laying it on me, just keep in mind the SEC has a winning record against everyone in bowl games except...The Big Ten.

to GoBlueBeattheBucks,

if you are still around. quit whinning. btw, michigan has never beaten UGA and UGA has a winning record against big 10 teams.

Please respond to this statement...Big 10 is the arguably the weakest bcs conference.

BTW, I think Mike Hart will run for 180 yards and three touchdowns to win the game next weekend.

Kansas and Hawaii are undefeated and should be ranked numbers 1 and 2 respectively. A win loss record is the number one thing the rankings should be based on, not personal bias."

Sorry you just lost all credibility when you threw Hawaii in there. You don't reward a team for playing a 1-AA schedule.

Let's face it, there is an "assumed greatness" for some teams and conferences. That is to say, they're presumed great until they fall. It's how Notre Dame gets a BCS bowl when they don't deserve one (and blown out each year) ahead of a lesser known team that must fight its way through the polls. It's how Ohio State only drops to #7 after losing, at home, to an unranked team. A team that is only now "worthy" of a top 25 ranking...far below the OSU team they just beat. LSU lost to Kentucky. Where are they? Well back in the pack. LSU has struggled with wins at Auburn and Bama (who just got beat by MSU!).

The coaches poll is also a joke. They're supposed to vote for teams they didn't even watch play. They have no idea! They vote their conferences and pump up their own schedules. Where do coaches get their info? Writers...

In the end, the bowls will determine not who is the best, but rather who will put the most butts in the seats to bring tourism to their towns.

At least when the Rose Bowl had the winner of the Big 10 vs The Pac 10, it meant something. How you got there was settled on the field, as was the winner.

fisherman...if you do osme research you will find thatthe SEC has played in 352 bowls and has a winning percentage of .522. Big Ten has only played in 226 bowls and has a winning percentage of .498. that's not so good.

You would also find that the SEC leads the big 10 with a 63-45-2 all time record. so quit your whining and get the facts right.

US News Colleg Rankings are below.

BIG 10 (51.4 average)
14. Northwestern
25. Michigan
38. Illinois, Wisconsin
48. Penn St.
57. Ohio State
64. Purdue, Iowa
71. Minnesota, Michigan St.
75. Indiana

SEC (87.3 average)
19. Vanderbilt
49. Florida
59. Georgia
91. Alabama
96. Auburn, Tennessee
112. South Carolina
122. Kentucky
124. Arkansas
Tier 3. Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State*

nate - what's your point there big guy? This is a football blog. BTW, I think it's safe to say that 90% of all players on teams ranked in the top 25 of any poll couldn't get into their respective schools unless they were football players.

Go Math! Whoohoooo.

stonefly:

Nothing whinny about my post other than a little slap at Creyer. Just don't understand why he would risk injury to Tebow when the game was over. Throwing for a touchdown with less than 2 minutes remaining?

Anyway, the Big Ten has had better years, no doubt. You really do not have to go back very far in the final rankings to see much better years than the current year.

If I was forced to rank conferences based on the entire conference I'd lay them out like this:

1. SEC
2. Pac 10
3. Big 12
4. Big 10
5. Big East
6. ACC

The top notch for SEC is entirely due to the depth issue. Though I'm not sure if even LSU is a great team, there are a couple of very good teams and many more good teams than the other conferences - THIS YEAR.

As you've seen yourself, even your mighty bulldogs looked pretty average before the past couple of weeks when they obviously have looked very good.

If I were ranking just the top half of each conference it would be much closer.

Do you really think teams such as TN, Auburn, Bama, Arkansas, SC or KY would dominate in other conferences?? No. Could they beat teams in the top half of other conferences? Yes of course.

A theoretical home and home round robin of the top half of each conference would show just what we already see which is a lot of parity and a landscape when even the best teams can lose on almost any given day.

As far as Michigan versus Georgia, you are not entirely correct. Though they have not played each other since the 60's Georgia and Mich are 1-1 lifetime versus each other.

I sure hope you are right about Mike Hart. On the anniversary of the passing of Bo it would be great for Lloyd to improve his record against the buckeyes to 7-6.

SEC: Doop doop do do do

Rest of NCAA: Enh enh en en en.

Seriously stop it, guys. I don't get the inferiority complex that the SEC fans haver nor how the rest of the country has trouble admitting that, yes, they have a strong conference.

But does it really need to be the only topic of conversation for the last two seasons. Enough.

Stonefly:

Good stat about the bowl lifetime bowl records. Can you summarize more recent period such as 1980 - 2006 or 1990 - 2006.

stonefly,

just referencing an earlier argument over academics...just thought I'd throw in some rankings for the arguing parties.

So, apparently when SEC teams knock one another off week after week its because they're "Deep" but when Big Ten teams do the same it's because the league is "weak."

I think it's impossible to compare in-conference records across conferences. I know it's cliche, but generally, conference teams are more familiar with one another and therefore are more prone to knocking one another off. You play the same team year after year, you learn coaches tendencies, become accustom to playing in the "super stadiums" ( Michigan, OSU, PSU)much more than OOC opponents.

As far as scheduling goes--schedules are made years in advance and primarily by athletic directors. The #1 goal is to MAKE MONEY. It's not about picking the best matchups. Furthermore, whats the point in playing markee teams when you could be knocked out of the NT race in September or October. The NCAA even changed their rules to allow victoires over I-AA teams to count.... Until the BCS formula actually takes into account "Quality Wins" there's no motivation in scheduling tough. Give credit to LSU , USC< Oklahoma, Tx, and OSU for actually playing teams.

For gobluebeatthebucks - You expressed tolerance for some of my views in the past. Your comment that Tebow was still risking injury late in the game had merit, even though Spurrier has a history of making life difficult for Florida. But the other side of the coin is Tressel resting his starters in so many games, just to not run up the score. I honestly think that contributed to last year's nightmare in the NC game. Florida's starters with Tenn, Alab, Aub, LSU, GA, FSU, SC, Kent & Ark could generally not sit out the second half. If challenges can ruin us, as it seems to have done to Nebr, or make us strong then where is the opportunity for OSU to become strong. Kansas fans defend their schedule by saying that it was appropriate for a traditionally weak team to use to build confidence. Of course now they say the schedule is a strong resume for the NC game, but that is another matter. I don't think OSU starters need the confidence building while they sit on the sidelines.
I might note that I agree that Meyer may be relying too much on Tebow. But all things considered Fla may not have the diverse weapons they did last year and he may feel the need to lean on Tebow.

Oh I'm sorry... did everyone forget that Kansas still has to play Missouri? On paper, I'll take the Tigers all day in that game. They beat Illinois this season, lead in the 4th quarter at Oklahoma, and Kansas is still (after 10 games) looking for a quality win. Mizzou by 14.

Michgian haters need to relax.

It is true that they are a not a good team this year, but now all of a sudden they are lucky to get a bowl game? and are going to be terrible next year? Are you kidding.

After playing a terrible game at Wisco w/o Henne and Hart they still almost won, and have managed to beat almost everyone else in the Big Ten. They will be decent again next year, and probably back in the top 10 in the country in 2.

For Matthew - For most of this season the SEC has had 6 or 7 teams in the Top 25. That is why the SEC is referred to as deep. The Big Ten has been lucky most weeks to have two teams in the Top 25. All conferences tend to knock each other off from week to week unless there is an OSU that few knock off, or as in the case of the Big 12, many of their highly ranked teams don't or haven't played each other. Kansas fans for instance brag about their victory over Colorado, not because Colorado is a great team, but because on one of its better days, with OK slacking off, Colo beat OK.
I think it more important for you to note that the Big Ten now has quite a few teams in the Top 25 as these teams establish their claim to be there based upon a body of work. But argue with those who simply put others down for little or no reason if you want.

I can just imagine how fans would respond to a champion fighter who dodged quality oppoents in scheduling as Kansas, Boise & Hawaii have done, and instead try to point to their victories over weaklings as evidence of their greatness. "Sure my opponents are not the best, but I am a great fighter because I find a way to win week after week." "I am greater than Joe Frazier because remember Ali defeated Frazier." We would all get a laugh.

Dear Howie...thanks for all the love directed towards Oklahoma all year. I'm sure when you, Les(lie) Miles and Mackey Brown get through on the golf course you can all have a good laugh for all the dolts that are dumb enough to believe in your misdirected hype. The BCS is broke...and it's dimwits like you who broke it.

It's too bad a team loses a game due to poor officiating. Instant replay needs to be improved, otherwise what's the use of having it. That 'no call" fumble was the difference in the game.
Illinois won because of that one play.

1988 LSU v Ohio State

Greg Frey to Bobby Olive with 47 seconds remaining. Buckeyes score 16 points in final 5:00 for 36-33 win.

Actually, Ohio State probably has the 5th best chance of playing in the Championship game. There are two parts that have to be done to analyze this. First, you need to figure out how teams would rank in the BCS if they win out. I would argue the ranking is something like this:
1. Kansas (13-0 team that just beat two other top 5 teams will be #1).
2. LSU
3. Oregon (needs to win out and have either LSU or Kansas lose a game)
4. Oklahoma (needs to win out and have either LSU or Oregon lose a game)
5. Missouri (needs to win out and have either LSU or Oregon lose a game)
OK, that part is easy. Here's where it gets trickier.
6. Arizona State (needs to win out, have Oregon lose a game so that it can be Pac-10 Champion, and needs either LSU or the Big 12 Champion to lose a game; note: my assumption is you won't get to the BCS Championship game if you're not a conference champion; the human voters will ensure that).
7. Georgia (needs to win out, have Tennessee lose to either Kentucky or Vanderbilt, beat LSU in the SEC Championship, and have all but one out of Oregon, LSU, Arizona State, and the Big 12 champion lose a game).
8. West Virginia (needs to win out, and have no more than one of the 7 teams above it meet those conditions; might even need Ohio State to lose as well).
9. Ohio State (needs to beat Michigan and have no more than 1 of the teams above it meet those conditions (though could conceivably beat out WVU if they both win out; note: I'm a WVU faculty member).

So what are the chances of winning out (or, in the case of Arizona State and Georgia, winning out AND winning their conference)? Here are what I think are reasonable estimates:
Kansas--25%
LSU--45%
Oregon--45%
Oklahoma--35%
Missouri--15%
Arizona State--15%
Georgia--10%
WVU--40%
Ohio State--80%

When you factor in all of that (and assume that there's about a 1 in 3 chance that Ohio State passes WVU if they both win out, here are the percentage chances of playing in the BCS championship:
1. LSU--45%
2. Oregon--40%
3. Oklahoma--30%
4. Kansas--25%
5. Ohio State--18%
6. Missouri--12%
7. WVU--10%
8. Arizona State--10%
9. Georgia--5%

That leaves another 5%, which is about the probability that only 1 of those 9 teams wins out. In that circumstance, it would seem there would be a battle between the 2-loss ACC champion and a 2-loss team among the current top BCS ranked teams.

hey mike, too bad stanford made sure you wouldn't be able to see usc vs lsu...

BCS title game is going to be UO and LSU. Sad to say but its true. Will it be as lopsided as last year? Lets hope not!!! For a minute there I thought UF was going to break the scoreboard on the mighty bucks.

What sucks is that if your not a "traditional power" then you have to go undefeated to have a chance. which is why I wont be surprised if OU jumps UO if it wins the big 12 championship. College football voters are like that and we all know it. LSU lost a game and fell from 1 to 3. USF lost a game and fell from 2 to 14.(yeah I know theyve struggled since) Hell if ND had won 6 games they would be talking about how they deserve a BCS and im sure they would ranked in the top 25.

Texas will not go to a bCS bowl game. Unless VY himself decides to come back and play. But lets be realistic. Do you think they are BCS material? OSU,WVU,LSU,UO,OU,Kan,Miz,ASU,Geo,FLA...they wouldnt beat any of them. not at home or on the road. Holiday and Cotton are already flipping a coin to see who gets them. Since they seem to flip btw those two games every yr. (yes I know they played in 2 bcs games)

Not Kansas fault they dont play each other. If Kansas sucked this year, would anybody care if they played or not? NOPE!

As for my team, if we make it to a bowl game this year I would be surprised. Especially after the beat down we just got at home. Dont know if the scoreboard broke or they turned it off so you couldnt see it anymore. Yeah it was that bad. But right beneath the scoreboard was those 5 NC banners, so we wont be down for long.

For neilb - An interesting analysis. But like last year with Fla & Mich OSU winning out is likely a greater body of work situation than WV. Also because of the high respect for the Pac Ten in comparison to the Big Ten this year I think Ariz St might jump OSU in the voter's minds.
For Randy - When you have to go back to 1988 to present a case for OSU it tends to strengthen the argument of the other side.

Speaking of self defeating arguments I enjoy the one from Kansas. Kansas beat Colo, which beat OK, which beat Missou, which beat the Illini, which beat OSU so Kansas has knocked off the #1 team in the country and should be #1 in the polls.

The only thing that might be a bigger crock than BCS rankings: US News rankings. And they've now found their way on to this board. Amazing.

Go Mizzou!

I am not going to flame on Big10 folks. All I wanna say is that Knowshon Moreno is dynamic! And the Dawgs are looking great. And since I live in Michigan/nearA2, Go Buckeyes, Wolverine fans are often times quite arrogant!

Every year we get to see which conference is the strongest. Watch the talley from the bowl games (all)......As for the best teams, we are dependant upon a bunch of homers who vote. I want to rank them, and then scale their votes.
I am a Wisconsin fan. Memory shows the Big 10 eats their own, and so does the PAC 10.......I like to see the high ranking teams get beat. Shows how the ranking system is a failure. GO DUCKS!!!!!

Since we're building castles in the sky, let's go all the way. Consider what the first round of a genuine national championship format would look like if the season ended today:

Virginia at LSU
Clemson at Oregon
Florida at Oklahoma
Hawaii at Kansas
Texas at West Virginia
USC at Missouri
Virginia Tech at Ohio State
Arizona State at Georgia

With a victory over Ohio St Kansas probably has the best claim to be #1. But with victories over USC, Cal, Texas, Fla & LSU Hawaii also has a claim. Don't forget that Hawaii beat UNLV, which beat Utah, which beat UCLA, which beat both Stanford and Cal, which beat USC & Tenn, which beat GA which beat Fla which beat Kentucky which beat LSU. Probably no team in the country can boast of greater victories than Kansas or Hawaii. Accept it.

Charles--I agree with you that ASU would beat out WVU if they both win out (and Oregon loses so that ASU is Pac-10 champion). The fact that they'd have to beat USC to get there insures that. They have about the same probability of getting the BCS championship because WVU has a better chance of winning out (40%). If WVU wins out, it still has only around a 25% chance of getting to the BCS Championship. ASU has about a 30% chance of winning out, about a 15% chance of winning out and having Oregon lose. However, if all of that happens, they have a much better chance (65-70%) of getting to the BCS Championship game. When you multiply it out, both schools have about a 10% chance of getting to the BCS Championship game.
I'm not sure how WVU and Ohio State come out if Ohio State beats Michigan and WVU wins out. The body of work argument loses a little importance (not saying it should; saying it would), as Ohio State finishes next weekend. It would be hard to move Ohio State ahead of WVU next week if they beat Michigan at home while WVU beats a comparably ranked Cincinnati team on the road. And it would be hard to move them ahead of WVU on the following two weekends when OSU watches the games on TV and WVU beats Connecticut and Pitt. So, my guess is that a one-loss WVU probably stays ahead of a one-loss Ohio State. This is the one, however, that I'm least sure about.

Well Stewart, it sounds like your pick for the National Championship is about where mine is. I picked as my preseason National Championship LSU vs. Oklahoma. It's looking more and more possible as the weeks go by, but so is another "upset" like we've seen so many times this year. In any case, no matter what happens, I'm a Florida fan first. GO GATORS!!! (Tebow for He15man)

One thing that the Big Ten really needs to do in order to cement its image as one of the indisputable greats is to expand immediately.
The typical approach to this is to call for the addition of Notre Dame. I believe that this would be the wrong choice, and it's not because their football program is experiencing a down period. No, it's because that would make for a 3rd Big Ten school in Indiana and yet another school among many others within a stone's throw of Chicago. The Big Ten needs to expand its geographic influence, not become regionally redundant. I realize that ND is a "national" school, but in an increasingly secular world, a religious school with a relatively small student body will not provide the same inter-regional fan base in the future that a colossal state school would provide. I also don't believe that the Big Ten will want to contend with the arrogance that ND will bring to the decision making process, and I certainly don't think that ND wants any part of the Big Ten in regard to competition. I don't have the exact numbers off hand, but I do know that Joe Paterno's record is significantly worse since PSU entered the Big Ten. If there's a true cause of his coaching decline, it's likely due to that instead of old age. After all, it was only a couple years ago that he managed to put together a national title contender. He can still do it, but the current competition is too steep to do it year in and year out. When it comes down to it, although their record is worse since entering the Big Ten, they're likely producing a better and more exciting athletic program because of the increased competition.
My choice for a 12th Big Ten school would be Rutgers. It's a quality institution with a large student body located near one of the largest cities in the world. It would bring the Big Ten into a whole new geographic world while spiking the level of competition with some much needed new blood. Rutgers would also bring the facilities and a lot of quality sports programs to the league. Rutgers itself would benefit greatly by entering the Big Ten and expending its grasp well beyond the Big East's lower level sphere of influence. The competition would do nothing but make them better and give them more recruiting leverage in all sports. It would only be a matter of time before they were packing 100,000 people into their newly expanded stadium for every game. Beyond that, they just seem like a Big Ten school to me, and I truly feel that they belong. Linking Chicago's Midwest with New York/New Jersey's east would be a very potent combo. On the other hand, Notre Dame would never truly blend in with the overall Big Ten aesthetic.
Of course, Rutgers coming into the league would also afford the Big Ten the opportunity to break into 6 team divisions and play a conference championship game. That would be incredibly exciting and hopefully put a long overdue muzzle over the collective pie-hole of all the Big Ten detractors.
Many might also want schools like West Virginia and Louisville to enter the Big Ten. I say no thanks. Such an alliance would only expand the Big Ten into the backwoods while forging an alliance with schools and communities that lack the influence of most Big Ten institutions.
Hopefully this will get done in the near future.

For Neilb - I had not realized that OSU finishes so far ahead of WV. Why the Big Ten schedules its teams this way is curious as it cannot be a plus in any way I see it. Under these circumstances it would take some very close WV wins before I think voters would give the edge to OSU. I don't believe there is too much blatant bias, but I think there is a glimmer of truth in what Stew says about OSU's loss to Fla last year and not wanting to mistakenly put OSU in that position again. I am sure he was only exaggerating though when he said the country's great national nightmare was over. He must be using a picture of himself taken many years ago or be a history buff to remember those comments on Nixon's resignation. Or perhaps he was referring to Paris finally getting out of jail.

Eric you're a moron if you think that Rutgers would even think about leaving the Big East to join the whinners of the Big Ten, and by the way you know absolutely nothing about ND or college football

edL-Thank you for that insightfully poetic response. I feel so "served" by you right now. Let me guess: Your education consists of flunking out of WVU because you spent too much time swilling Busch Light (on tap) down at the "Rusty Musket."

P.S. Apparently, the only people who know less than yours truly about college football are the current crop of coaches and players at ND. I hope Charlie saves some pizza for everyone else at the annual "awards" banquet. What awards do you figure they'll be giving this year? Let's see, instead of Most Valuable Player, it will be Least Embarrassing Player, etc, etc.

Uh oh, Stew is going to close this one down guys.

I'm an Ohio State fan and I must say to others. Please SHUT UP. I'm so sick of everyone complaining. Please show some class. I value my OSU degree and I don't want evryone thinking were all idiots. Now to the SEC fans. Okay we get it you have the best conference. Please quit trying to compare the two. I'm so sick of this my conference is better than yours crap. We all know that the SEC is super tough. I totally agree with you guys. I just wish people would quit complaining about Ohio States schedule this year. Okay so it sucks this year. Last year it was pretty good and they have some great teams scheduled for the next few years. Yes the Big Ten is down we all get it. So please just let it die. Now lets all go have a beer and quit complaining. I love all of college football and the SEC has givein me some great games along with all the other confrences.Thank you and good night

man o man o man....My buckeyes lost a tough one to a team that is better than expected(no different from lsu's loss to uk or oregon's loss to cal). I think that we got caught thinking about michigan and illinois won fair and square...with that said lsu may lose another game(highly doubt it) and oregon will win out considering their weak schedule remaining...I would love to see and osu vs oklahome matchup or osu vs kansas.

What we learned is that......

1. Ohio State is not #1...and who gives a crap. 10-1 in a rebuilding year with an new QB, New WR's, New Tailback, etc....

2. Mark May is not only a douche....but a USED douche!! How talented do you have to be to predict OSU to lose every game....you are bound to right one week.

3. The SEC is a bunch of self promoting idiots who use their contract with CBS to legitimize themselves. How good is LSU...really?? They lost to Kentucky and could have lost at least 2 more. Florida has 3 losses....give me a break

4. Notre Dame is bad....REALLY bad in EVERY phase of the game. How does cheeseburger charlie get a pass on this?? Ty Willingham never went 1-10 or lost to Air Force and Navy.... Weis is a disaster--Quinn just bailed him out for 2 years.

In the end.... OSU will beat Michigan, win the Bowl and End up #3 in the BCS.... .I will take that as a rabid OSU fan who expected far loss.... God Bless Jim Tressel!

I have not read Mark May's comments on how Illinois would be OSU, but I felt that Illinois would be the only real threat to OSU this year in the Big 10(11). Not because the Big 10 is down or that Mi..... or Wisconsin are not good. It is just because last year in Champagne the Bucks could have easily lost. From what I saw of that game the Illini won the last quarter and maybe the last quarter and a half.

Is the Illini a speadier team than the Buckeyes? Sans FLA? Did Zook bring an SEC philosophy of football that highlights different characteristics on a team than do traditional power football Big 10? I did not see this OSU vs Illini game, so I would appreciate good game insight and also a final question answered. If SEC is such a better conference, faster, speedier, etc...then is Illinois going to become the dominant team in the Big 10 for the next decade because it plays that style, or would any SEC team get worn down by playing 9 games in the Big 10 power football regardless of team? Maybe that is two questions.

To all of the Missouri fans complaining about their team's ranking:

Sure, Mizzou has a quality loss. The problem is they have no quality wins. If they win out they'll deserve some recognition, but their schedule has been a cakewalk so far.

It would nevertheless be frustrating to see a Big 12 team jump Oregon because the Ducks' schedule isn't as tough down the stretch. Oregon will have just as many quality wins as Oklahoma, and more than Kansas or Missouri; the only problem is that they came in September and October. I'm more concerned with temporal bias than East Coast bias.

The one thing I learned this weekend is the Ohio State would have lost more than 1 game if they were in the SEC. Any takers on this one???

Ohio St. is 0-8 versus the SEC in Bowl Play. Why are you guys on here talking about how good you are versus the them? You talk about how bad Kentucky and Vandy are, but 6 of your 7 wins versus the SEC are against those 2 teams. Plus those 6 wins were before 1936! Please leave and quit embarrassing yourselves.

Guys let it go. We all know that the SEC is gods gift to college football. WE GET IT!!! Please move on.

For palmbeachbuckeye - I think you are right about a Rose Bowl victory for OSU as long as Oreg goes to the BCS NC and Ariz St goes to the Roses. If Pete Carroll gets USC on track I would fear for the safety of any possible opponent, including LSU.
I hope you realize that part of the problem with the SEC is the making of OSU/Big Ten fans. Go back and remind yourself how long we had to listen to that stuff about Fla not belonging in the NC game. I think the technical term for what is going on now is 'eating crow', and I am sure you would agree that Mich's problems have added a special sauce to the meal. Perhaps you were one of those who made no public announcements regarding Fla's quck demise in the NC game, but what the French say is true. Bad company brings bad luck.

For Binkyping - My point exactly although the win over Illinois was good for Missou. If we are ranking teams on who they have beaten Kansas might barely make the Top 25 and Missou would only be a step or so higher. If we are ranking teams based on the number of losses then we put the name of Hawaii and Kansas in a hat, and the name drawn is #1.

First off...schedules are made years in advance. When Ohio State scheduled Washington, they were considered one of the top powers in the Pac 10. Not to mention the MAC is playing some decent football...look at some of teams that Ball State, Bowling Green, and Ohio U. have knocked off the last few years. Second, I wonder how good the SEC teams would be if they had to travel up north in late november and play in Wisconsin, Michigan, or Ohio.. Most of the players on those SEC teams have never seen snow..let alone played in temps under 50 degrees..Third, has anyone look at the overall won // loss record for the Big 10 and SEC in head to head competion for the last 15 years?? It is nearly even. Last year, Big 10 was 2 and 1 in bowl games against the so called superior SEC. Just a little food for thought...

Go BUCKS.. Beat the BLUE!!!

To Charles
I don't think 30 years to go back is to bad, what, look at the blog, we've went from the beginning of mankind with Adam and Eve and their first son, SEC, to the civil war and onto which section of the country is the smartest.
I believe the last time LSU and OSU played was 1988.
Everyone will brag about the conferences their schools belong to, which is part of the glamor of College Football.
I'll watch any College game whether I like them or not.
A true Buckeye here but above all, a College football fan first.

For in Tress we Trust - Yes schedules are made years in advance. How could anyone have known that Youngstown, Kent Sy and Akron would be weak competition for OSU? Good point.
And who can blame Kansas because Cent Mich, SE La, Toledo & FIU did not live up to expectations? And my God. Ten years ago people thought Hawaii and Boise St were crazy to set up their schedules. Bad luck all around.

"Kansas and Hawaii are undefeated and should be ranked numbers 1 and 2 respectively. A win loss record is the number one thing the rankings should be based on, not personal bias."

Sorry you just lost all credibility when you threw Hawaii in there. You don't reward a team for playing a 1-AA schedule."

In that case, there should be penalties for scheduling I-AA opponents, such as not being able to be ranked number 1 or play for the National Championship.

What do you think in Kansas wins out?

Some Kansas fans have admitted that their weak schedule was designed to build confidence. In basketball Gonzaga did not earn respect until it beefed up its schedule. With that cames losses, but enough wins to establish their quality. Kansas needs to beef up its schedule if it wants to earn respect. Had it played OK, Texas Tech & Texas we would know better if they deserved to be ranked above any of those teams. I suspect that Kansas may be the 5th or 6th best team in the Big 12 right now. They should go bowling accordingly. A champion fighter who scheduled weak competition, then claimed greatness because he was finding a way to win from fight to fight would be laughed at. I don't mark Kansas down for not playing the best teams in its conference. I just don't reward them and assume they are better either.

Brad: Have you lost your mind.. KY's defense is giving up 350+ yards per game, the last big game they played on the road, SC moved the ball at will... KY will get beat in Athens and vs Tenn.

To Daniel at 1:12,
You said"The SEC is considered the best conference because the level of play is MUCH higher..
1) We have the fastest athletes
2) The hardest hitting defenses
3) The best and loudest fans (Just go to LSU or UGA..or FLA and tell me the sorry big 10 or any other conference can match that intensity)"

That's the same garbed load of crap everyone else says. There's plenty of 4.3 and 4.4 guys at Big Ten schools. THey hit just as hard, and I beg to differ on stadiums. The past 2 years and Penn State when OSU came to town, Gameday was there. All of them said it was the loudest, craziest student section in college football. Stew even commented on it 2 weeks ago when he was there. Think next time before you type! You ever been to a Big Ten game? I doubt it.

Woody:
Every time I see that name I think of Clemson and that Gator Bowl win, and I did not go to Clemson! Anyway, in terms of revenue, UGA posted the most profit (see SI on Campus) 44 million last year. I think we have plenty of capital in our Universities Athletic Departments.

Stewart: The fifth thing that you say we learned this weekend is that "we (the pollsters) have no idea who's No. 1 this year". Isn't it true that you and the other pollsters have no idea who is number one in any year?. After all, how is it possible to reasonably identify the best when you are comparing teams that, by and large, play completely different schedules? In college basketball where there are polls and a playoff (the NCAA tournament), the #1 ranked team going into the tournament has only won the Championship 5 times since they starting seeding teams in 1979. Pollsters in basketball have
the advantage that basketball teams
play many more games than football teams do,including inter-conference games. This means they have more information to use in ranking teams and still, with few exceptions, they fail to identify who the number one really is. What evidence is there that anyone has any idea who the best college football team really is?

okay, not sure if anyone will go for the Big changeola in College Football. The NCAA does not even have a National Championship in D1 basketball. It has an NCAA Champion. To do something like that in a proper way - 119 D1 schools round robin by four or five games being drawn by pulling numbers out of a hat. Then those winners/loosers are bracketted for another four or five games. The winners out of there go on to the championship finals of two or three games. No one has any gripes, everyone looses out huge money, universities shut down because they do not have the revenue coming in and we go backwards and not forwards.

Another way - like the ACC/Big 10(11) shootout is to have conference tilts at the beginning of the year where two SEC schools play against two Big 10(11), etc....for all the other conferences. Outcome can be the same, though. People argue that MSU lost to Illinois early in the year and so it should not matter because the SEC is so much stronger, etc.

Personally, let's disband the SEC and send at least one school to each of the BCS conferences, so we can crown the SEC the best conference of all time.

Or let's send every Big 10(11) school to the SEC for 10 years, that way we can create new regional rivalries, and ensure that every Big 10(11) school knows deep in their gut that they are never going to be as good as an SEC team.

Don't pull up what happened in the 20s or 30s when Georgia Teach or Georgia won a Rose Bowl.

Personnally, I think OSU should be lauded for allowing schedules to teams like YState, Akron, Ohio University, Cincinnati, etc. Not every person on every good college team goes on to the NFL and there are many small college teams who send players into the NFL every year. Those schools that OSU has played over the past several years have gotten better, gotten better facilities, produced better atheletes, better students all the way around because they can play the big boys and even win at times. Who has the better strength of schedule in the top seven right now? LSU, Kansas, Oregon, ASU, MO, OSU, WVU. That is pretty close to the rankings.

There are no perfect chamionships in any sport. There is the regular season and then there are tournaments a wildcard team can win those. I actually think that the current system in CFB and the system that has been in place for nearly a century is better than any. You win and not loose and you will be a champion.

To those RedNeck Nation folks who are so clueless that when I say revenues they start hyping their University athletic funds. University athletic funds are cookie jars; annual average incomes for alumni and friends are the revenues that count--to those who CAN count anyway. Exactly what did you think the University athletic funds had to do with anything we are discussing here anyway? Come on RedNecks! Pay attention for once. Did you plan to spend the University athletic funds in large amounts while attending bowl games? Or maybe take them and donate a nice building for your school? You are completely reinforcing my efforts to draw attention to how truely ignorant the RedNeck Nation really is.

This is what I am talking about: Average annual income per household is about $8,620 higher on average in Big 10 states than SEC states, and that gap gets bigger every year. Given that we also out number you across states by over 10M people over the age of 18, we have a substantial advantage in revenues. These numbers results in real revenues (that is where you have to do that math called Multiplying. I know it is hard for you, but don't get frustrated and beat your little sister again...) that decision makers attend to.

So you like to think the Big 10 is still in the Rust Belt? I guess that education issue in the South must be real (you know the issue, right? The one where the lowest NAEP scores in the country by far are in SEC states? NAEP? No, it is not a brand of beer...). We never were as far down in the revenue game as the SEC states, our cash flow makes yours look like baby piss, and you want to argue revenues?

Back to my earlier point, as the official spirit of Woody Hayes: We don't need you, you need us. If you are going to be disrespectful to the Big 10, then I am here to point out that you are a bunch of dumb, poor, RedNecks who are lucky that we sit in the same stadiums with you. You and your little girlfriend Howie get a grip about the nature of college football (it is a game for young atheletes, not NASCAR--lol--I bet you all miss the irony of THAT one) and old Woody here will go away. After all, I am dead, right? Sucks having to argue with an old dead bigot coach famous for his temper, doesn't it?

To those RedNeck Nation folks who are so clueless that when I say revenues they start hyping their University athletic funds. University athletic funds are cookie jars; annual average incomes for alumni and friends are the revenues that count--to those who CAN count anyway. Exactly what did you think the University athletic funds had to do with anything we are discussing here anyway? Come on RedNecks! Pay attention for once. Did you plan to spend the University athletic funds in large amounts while attending bowl games? Or maybe take them and donate a nice building for your school? You are completely reinforcing my efforts to draw attention to how truely ignorant the RedNeck Nation really is.

This is what I am talking about: Average annual income per household is about $8,620 higher on average in Big 10 states than SEC states, and that gap gets bigger every year. Given that we also out number you across states by over 10M people over the age of 18, we have a substantial advantage in revenues. These numbers results in real revenues (that is where you have to do that math called Multiplying. I know it is hard for you, but don't get frustrated and beat your little sister again...) that decision makers attend to.

So you like to think the Big 10 is still in the Rust Belt? I guess that education issue in the South must be real (you know the issue, right? The one where the lowest NAEP scores in the country by far are in SEC states? NAEP? No, it is not a brand of beer...). We never were as far down in the revenue game as the SEC states, our cash flow makes yours look like baby piss, and you want to argue revenues?

Back to my earlier point, as the official spirit of Woody Hayes: We don't need you, you need us. If you are going to be disrespectful to the Big 10, then I am here to point out that you are a bunch of dumb, poor, RedNecks who are lucky that we sit in the same stadiums with you. You and your little girlfriend Howie get a grip about the nature of college football (it is a game for young atheletes, not NASCAR--lol--I bet you all miss the irony of THAT one) and old Woody here will go away. After all, I am dead, right? Sucks having to argue with an old dead bigot coach famous for his temper, doesn't it?

Well,Woody, LSU is certainly responsible for some notable rednecks here in redneck nation, to include:

Elizabeth Ashley
Bill Conti
Edwin Newman
Stephen Soderbergh
Joanne Woodward
Rex Reed
Donna Brazile
James Carville
Hubert H. Humphrey
Russell Long
General Claire Chennault and
Robert Penn Warren

A most noted group of fry cooks.

For those that want to punish Hawaii for playing Div I-AA schools, don't overlook the fact that they had to schedule those games because Michigan backed out of their commitment to play Hawaii, and USC and Alabama both refused to play HI. And then Michigan goes on to LOSE to a Div I-AA to start the season and USC loses to a weak Stanford football team.

Many bloggers are correct in saying that a playoff system would diminish the regular season games. If you want playoffs, watch the NFL.
And imagine if we did have a playoff system, say top 8 teams. Wouldn't we still have the same problem of people complaining about being looked over? Whoever winds up #9 and #10 would feel cheated.
I'm an Auburn graduate. I felt like Oklahoma had proven the year before in losing in the title game that they didn't deserve to be in the game against USC, especially when you take into account that they were blown out by Kansas State in Big 12 title game but still played LSU in 2003 for the BCS title shutting out USC who was locked into the Rose Bowl. LSU beat them and then in 2004, USC made Oklahoma look like the pretender they were both years. To this day, I think Auburn would have given USC a better game, but I somehow managed to go on with my life settling for the Sugar Bowl and an undefeated year. (It was typical that the cowardly BCS didn't have the guts to pit us against an undefeated Utah because then it would look like an extra game was necessary to prove who the real national champion was).
Who belongs in the title game? LSU if they run the gauntlet against all of the eight bowl eligible: Virginia Tech, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, Miss.State, Florida, South Carolina and either Tennessee or Georgia in SEC title game.
Whoever wins the Big 12 will have gone through not as difficult run as LSU, but be it Oklahoma or the Kansas/Missouri winner, at least they played their way in.
I like Oregon and felt they were overlooked in years past, but that is because they play in an inferior conference. Take USC and Arizona State out of the picture and you are left with the equivalent of the WAC minus Boise State and Hawaii. I'd vote Ohio State in ahead of Oregon still. It's not personal, it's fact. Yes the fact is, the PAC 10 doesn't present near the quality of teams that the SEC, Big 10 and Big 12 do year in and year out.

Another BCS fiasco. LSU will play for the national championship when it is not even the best team in its own conference. Didn't we see this in 2001.

C'mon Duckit,

"LSU has played a slightly tougher schedule than Kansas"???

Oregon and LSU have played 3 teams each that are still in the BCS Top 25, and LSU will certainly play another BCS Top 25 in the SEC Championship game. At least LSU's one loss was to a RANKED team, unlike the Ducks.

'scuse RPS,

LSU won't play in the NC UNLESS we WIN OUR CONFERENCE. Wouldn't that make us the best?

Well..regarding the Oregon loss to Cal.. if that call at the end of the game had gone the other way..it wouldnt have been overturned, the ducks wouldve scored the winning touchdown and won the game against the same Cal team that beat Tennessee...

To those who think a playoff is a bad idea, you are all idiots.

College Football is the ONLY sport where a coach cannot look his team in the eye at the beginning of a season and say honestly to them, "If we win every game on our schedule, then we will be champions.

If this is the system you whackos like so much, then why don't we just use Dr. Z's Power Rankings, and do the NFL in the same manner? Oh, I know why, because it's dumb.

Just a few belated responses and observations.

@GatorChomp: sorry . . missed your question while in a hurry to cook fries. I earned tenure at the University of North Dakota. Others on the list either left voluntarily or were visiting positions. Would not trade any of them for other experiences.

@GatorChomp again: agree. Things have a way of getting marginally civil without bigotry.

@Nate: those rankings have never been explained. The closest comes from the guy in charge who, when asked if they were accurate, said "they must be since Princeton is on top." Although I detest Wikipedia . . check out the entry on "Academic Rankings" for some fairly interesting info.

@Poster who thinks Grants are "rational" way to rank academics . . no. Grants go to hard science and engineering enclaves (which are important) but that leaves to much out. Like the social sciences and (gawd forbid) teaching. There are better ways to rank academic institutions than that, not that it matters a whole lot here in a sports blog.

@Woody: Gosh, it is hard to know where to begin. I'll just respond to this plaintive missive from you: " you are a bunch of dumb, poor, RedNecks who are lucky that we sit in the same stadiums with you." Actually, I think it is the reverse. Earn the right to play us and we will sit with you. You, however, will be taking a seat next to Mike VI. Like, next to him.

@Woody again: Actually you defile the name.

@Kathryn: you are right. Playoffs definitely needed here.

@ the world: Geaux Tigres!

Sas

Kathryn, yes a coach can say that if you win all your games you will be a champion. Whether or not that is a national one or not is the whole job of prognosticators to write or espouse.

A high school team wins all of their games they will be champs of their league, maybe then region, and then on to state. Some high school teams do not win every game and end up winning a championship at the highest level available - state. That is the same with college sports and profesional sports. A team with one loss, or two, or 8 (in the NFL for instance) can win the Super Bowl. Was that 8-8 team the best team that year? Most likely not, but they won it all. Their title is Super Bowl Champions - any other title is left up to writers, announcers and fans to spout about. DII, DIII football is the same way. There are teams that better skilled that don't win out and are not called champions in those tournaments.

On revenue, every league/conference is different. I still believe the Rose Bowl is still the biggest pot. If Michigan won, that money goes into the Big 10(11) coffers, not to Michigan. Not sure what other conferences are like, but I think the Pac-10 is the same. A Northwestern gets the same amount of money that Michigan does even though it goes to that bowl.

The reality of all types of championships is that you have to win to give your team the "chance" to be there and the chance to win it all. Heresay is bologna. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda!!! If OSU wins its games, then it puts itself into a position to win national titles. If Hawaii wins, then it puts itself into position to win. If LSU looses to FLA then it has to "hope" for other factors to be brought to bear on their "championship". Just "Win, Baby" and there is nothing more you can do as a player, or a coach, or an administrator. If you play as well as you are able and still loose, then you are not as good as the other guy. Get better or get another job. Universities are there to educate and wining is part of education, but trying your best and learning (win or loose) is a better route for success. Bands or choirs compete, too and get rated by professionals at all different levels for the chance to become great.

Kathryn and others read the only real way to have a play off is start 119 D1 teams in a five game round robin and then after than bracket teams for another five games, with three remaining games to determine "NCAA D1 Football Tournament Champions". Do away with the SEC, Big 12, Big 10(11), etc. and the current bowl system. We can play the national championship in Detroit or Saskatchewan or whatever city bids to the NCAA to earn the rights to host the game. Just like B-ball.

No, let's not try to force our young post adolescents into that kind of pressure. I was fine with the Rose Bowl hosting the Big 10 and Pac 10, Orange hosting ACC/Big East, Sugar hosting SEC vs...Cotton hosting Big 12. Nothing wrong with that. No need for me to increase my self worth by having the Buckeyes win (or get a loss). Oh well. We all have our epiphanies (mine did not hurt my head, too much) and games are being played by people who want to achieve excellence. I hope we can all appreciate excellence does not equate to perfection. Over the past 120 years or so of "national champs" many have not been perfect but most have been undefeated.

When this season began I started keep tally of BCS vs non-BCS results. Each week it was 30 - 2 or something similar. After three weeks I stopped keeping tally because the results were overwhelming.
I hear weak teams like Kansas say they play weak non-conf schedules to build confidence. I hear non-BCS coaches say they do not want to play tough competition to start the season to save something for their conf games.
But then as the season winds down the stories change and suddenly we should pretend that these weak schedules are BCS bowl worthy. We hear that since Hawaii thought it might be good that they tried to schedule Mich at the last minute. So voters should not only pretend that they did play Michigan, but they beat them. Voters should pretend that the rest of Hawaii's schedule makes it bowl worthy. And for Kansas voters should pretend that since Kansas did not play Texas and OK that since these teams lost a game or two that Kansas must be better.
If we could set up games of Texas against either Hawaii or Kansas I would gladly put much money on Texas (at favorable odds of course since they are ranked lower) against either any of those powderpuff heroes (or that other team that has one Top 25 victory in the past three years (Boise St). I think it is easier to blow your horn about a powderpuff hero and only lose self respect when people laugh than it is to cough up any real money in support of them.

Smartest thing you said all year was that no one knows who the number one team is. Too much of this "system" (incl the BCS) relies on utterly subjective opinions, warped by conference/regional bias. And conference losses carry WAY too much weight with the polsters. Ditch all polls, track conference races and conf vs conf records. At the end of the season, look at all the stats, the records of teams and conferences, and THEN decide who the top teams are. NCAA doesn't recognize a national football champion - with good reason.

I just wanted to take a moment and let the Michigan Wolverines know how proud I am of them this year. It took a lot of strength and determination to get back up after embarrassing losses to App State and Oregon (who turned out to be pretty fantastic). They have played through humiliating comments about their coach, their team and their conference. They never gave up and at the end of the day, no matter what conference or team you root for, you have to give them props for that. Henne has been hurt and taken one for the team. Hart has been just that-he is the heart and soul of the team. He inspires me and I know he will be successful in whatever he decides to do in his life..he is truly a leader and I am so proud he chose Michigan. I know it doesn't qualify as a great season but you know what? This year I learned what my team is made of and I'm proud of them. I will be watching, cheering and hopefully crying with joy this Saturday as my Wolverines dig deep and pull out a victory over OSU. GO BLUE!!!

I find it humorous that Georgia gets a win over a very injured Florida team and an Auburn team that clearly isn't even top 30 material and suddenly they are the hottest team. That is completely laughable.

I don't know who pays the writers to hype a team, but they are doing a great job with Georgia.

The same people that were hyping Tennessee earlier...

Mandel--it's spelled KnowSHON. Better get to know him well!

For the record, this was the 3rd time Mark May predicted an OSU loss. (Washington, Penn St.).

Let's not crown him a great predictor of college games. The man has always harbored a disdain for OSU (he also predicted several losses for the 2002 and 2006 OSU team).

Hey Stew,
I get a kick out of you and all the so called football experts when you say that the Mountianeers should not get a shot at the title game (Yes I am a WVU fan). Yes I did watch the game and yes they did look like crap but so did Oklahoma, USC, LSU, and Florida in several games and then you want to talk about strength of schedule come on, all the teams in collage football play their fair share of high schools

The only thing Ohio State's loss to Illinois proved is that the Big Ten is a sorry conference right now.

I sincerely hope college football never goes to a play off. How sterile that would be. Public opinion has such a large role in college football, which in-turn promotes the controversy and resulting dialogue that makes college football so much fun ... to watch, to talk about, to agonize over. I doubt the perenial powers get too worked up one way or the other about the playoff proposals ... they're likely confident they can win in either system. It's the struggling teams who find it difficult to live up to their potential, betting on a run of playing over their heads, that feel a playoff gives them hope ... kind of like a lottery. "We may suck, but there's always a chance we could win a few playoff games!" Now, I'm a loyal OU fan and love my team, but I'm also a realist. This season has far exceeded our expectations for our young team. I just hope we don't botch the Texas Tech game in Lubbock this weekend. If we win that one, we should make it to the Big 12 Championship game ... we may be a lock at some point betwenn now and then, I don't know. I hope Kansas keeps winning, because I think Mizzou just might whip us if given a second chance. Hopefully we can stay over-rated up to a bowl game and then have a strong game. I think we'll have a monster team over the next few years, but this year, as last year, illustrates just what a master Stoops is in making the most out of the resources at hand ... and making star players. In the unlikely event of an OU-Oregon match up in bowl play, I can only imagine the venom. These teams and fans truly despise each other like no other situation I've seen. I can't even refer to it as a rivalry; that would be implying some sort of respect between the two. I'd love to see that game, but I'd rather see it happen next season.

Richard, I think you must have eaten some bad food or slurrped some seriously cold slushy. When the SEC power team looses to a very week team it shows how strong the SEC is. When anyone outside the SEC is upset in their conference it shows how weak that conference is. The logic is a big flawed. Teams win championships and not conferences. It was FLA who won the mythical championship last year not the SEC. Before that it was Texas, not the Big 12, before that it was USC not the Pac-10...