Nice to hear you gove Tebow some love Stew!! I think if he plays a solid game on Saturday and beats FSU, the award should be his hands down. He has really surpassed even Gators fans expectations (which I will admit tend to be on the high side no matter the reality) and has the stats to back it. Seriously, the guy may go 3000+ and 1000+ after a bowl game. He may bring home 3 of these things before it is all said and done. (however I would think that next year his rushing stats will not be as gaudy if UF finds a reliable back, but his yards per carry should go up.)

As for the Gators, they may still get to 10 wins and a January bowl game...pretty good for a team starting about 60-70% freshman and sophmores. I will take 10 wins all day this season but in true Gator fassion, will expect nothing less than a NC next season!!!

Sorry, I just can't give any credit to a team that hasn't played anyone. Perhaps if the Jayhawks beat Missouri and Oklahoma, maybe they will prove a point. But to be ranked 2nd in the country with the best team you have played being the 49th strongest team in the country is ridiculous.

Boise State all the way! The Warriors are getting spanked on their home field this coming Friday! Also, Kansas all the way to the NC game! Traditional schools are too fat and happy. What Mangino at Kansas and Petersen at Boise State teach is a "Team Effort", not individual effort. Just look at Dixon (as sad as it is) or Bradford...without them, their team is nothing. Gators? They'd loose Tebow? Good night...Tebow with his stats makes Florida. And LSU, they will loose one more time because they have been riding their luck for too many games.

Gator fans can certainly take comfort in the star quality year Tim Tebow is having; but, before counting the chickens the Gators will chomp next hear, recall that the path to a national championship runs through Jacksonville where the Gators will have to contend with a packi of black-jerseyed Dawgs- a squad that has their stud QB, future Heisman-winning tailback, experienced O line, numerous skil players and a stellar recruiting class on board. Don't count on your thick skinned reptiles so much as being SEC East champions until you show us what you got. The Streak is over, long live the Streak.

Stew,

Don't you think the winner of the Boise State-Hawaii game is going to the BCS?

I thought there was at least an unwritten agreement that the championship game idea was only possible if the 6 BCS conferences bribed all the outsiders by opening up a BCS slot. But for the BCS championship game idea, those teams outside the BCS conferences would have no shot at a BCS bowl (except for Notre Dame).

The city that hosts the BCS championship game always gets last pick for its regular bowl game. This is the slot opened for the Boise State's and Hawaii's of the world. Not to say Boise State was unworthy last year, but that is the deal.

Georgia is the Hottest Team in all of College football right now. Nobody, not even LSU will want to play them. It is amost like the year that USC lost 2 games but at the end of the year they were the best team in all of football...they finally gelled together and found out who they are. Indeed,,,another reason for the playoff system. Plus the SEC is just WAY to tough to go through undefeated every year....

Oh,,and by the way Alabama,,,I have heard of Appalachian State,,,but I have never heard of Lousiana Monroe...LMAO...You guys paid what$$$$$ for SABAN? Suckers....

I was watching that Nevada-Hawaii game (insomnia) and I was screaming at the TV when that Nevada coach turned into a teenage girl. Seriously, what is that ice-the-kicker crap except the latest fad/trendy psycho-babble of pro and college football? Stewart asks if it has ever worked. First of all, there's no proof it "works", even if you can point to kicker who missed after the timeout, because you have no way of knowing why he missed; it's arrogance mixed with a belief in magic that tells you "hey, it was that brillant time-out you called, Coach, the way you yelled 'Time out! Time out!' really got in that kid's head".

A better question is, even if does work every once in a while, isn't it a much higher percentage play to give your team 40 extra seconds to score if they have to? If he misses, you just run out the extra 40 seconds then. Who came up with the phrase "Icing" the kicker anyway? Ridiculous.

jeff - Kansas is the hottest team in the country. I don't care how well they've played lately, Georgia lost two games, and Kansas has lost none while playing just as well over the recent stretch (if not better) than UGA. I have a friend who goes to Georgia who calls me every time they win and tells me how much better they are than Kansas. I don't dislike Georgia, but Kansas keeps winning now, and they won early. The hottest team in the nation has to be Kansas.

gatorbait - I will not disagree with you that Tebow is incredible and probably deserves the Heisman, but that's only because he doesn't play on a team. He plays behind a decent O-line with no legitimate running back and only one good receiver. Everything's in his hands, and he does very admirably with it, but the whole "Tebow's amazing but his team has a few losses" statement will continue to ring true until Meyer can get some people to help him. I am expecting less than a NC next year for Florida, and you probably should as well.

To those skeptics:

Team A:
Per Game NCAA Conf.
Total Offense 449.9 yds 21st 3rd
Total Defense 257.6 yds 2nd 1st
Points Scored 39.5 pts 11th 2nd
Points Allowed 17.4 pts 9th 2nd

Team B:
Per Game NCAA Conf.
Total Offense 500.2 yds 7th 4th
Total Defense 300 yds 8th 1st
Points Scored 45.8 pts 2nd 1st
Points Allowed 14.2 pts 2nd 1st

Team C:
Per Game NCAA Conf.
Total Offense 506.3 yds 4th 2nd
Total Defense 379.8 yds 58th 6th
Points Scored 42.5 pts 6th 3rd
Points Allowed 23 pts 34th 3rd

Team D:
Per Game NCAA Conf.
Total Offense 459.9 yds 13th 2nd
Total Defense 288.6 yds 4th 1st
Points Scored 39.2 pts 12th 1st
Points Allowed 17.3 pts 7th 2nd

The teams? A-LSU; B-KU; C-MU; D-WVU

So in other words, Kansas has a better scoring offense and defense than anyone in the top 4 of the BCS. The defense that has taken shots for the last couple weeks? It's in the Top 10 in both scoring and yards allowed. The argument that they aren't a great team? They are the only top 4 team with a top 10 scoring offense defense and top 10 in yards gained and allowed, not to mention their top ranking in both penalties and turnover margin. So I guess you can keep going with the "they haven't played anyone" argument when criticizing Kansas, because teir offense, defense, and team smarts leave little to be desired.

the Big Ten has some great coaching but this post opens up the coaches that are having a mediocre season and points out that there is some coaching depth in the conference

Chris.

Big Deal. There isn't another team in the top 20 that would not be undefeated against Kansas schedule. If you want respect and to use comparison stats, it would help if you would actually schedule a real team.

This is the MOST BORING HEISMAN YEAR I have ever lived through. You're going to give the Heisman to a sophomore running back, er, quarterback, er, fullback, by default, who may or may not go to a significant bowl game and who will undoubtedly suffer a serious injury before he finishes college if his coach doesn't stop running him directly into the line. Give me a break.

Just remember what sitting at home can do for you -

OSU is 5

KU-Mizzou loser drops off.
KU-Mizzou winner loses Big 12 championship.
LSU loses in SEC championship
WVU loses to UConn.

Wierder things have happened. Like a 51 yard FG that hits the left upright and bangs it off the post and in.

Chris...Get off the short bus. KU hasn't played a ranked opponent. Let's compare stats when they do.

Sorry, but the most outstanding player of the year has been Pat White. Tebow is great, and may win a couple of Heismans in his future. But White is the heart of the Mountaineers team, and deserves a lot of Heisman love.

Perhaps once the curtain is pulled back from the Wizard of BCS's control center (I could see UGA doing that, since Georgia knows they are SOOOOO much better than Tennessee, but may fail to play in the championship), and Kansas and Missouri will each lose in the next weeks (and perhaps even LSU might lose to a bummed out McFadden, who deserves Heisman love as well, but with LSU's apathetic defense, all three teams might become revealed to be NOT that GREAT). Will you guys start paying attention to WVU then?

First, you threw mudballs at the Big East Conference after Miami, VaTech and BC left. (Then WVU beat a good Georgia team in the Sugar Bowl).

When they didn't work, you threw spitballs at the level of the competition within the conference (Then we ended up with the highest season win average against other BCS league teams, and won all FIVE of our Bowl Games).

And now, this year, you are trying to disparage the league again by not giving WVU its due. (hell, they have put the #1 NFL draft pick on the edge of not getting to a bowl this year--Brian Brohm)

Wake up America. If this great season did nothing more, it will be memorable for beginning a new era, in which we all figure out, and I sure hope that means the pollsters as well, that ALL teams can beat any other team at ALL times, any week, any time!

GOOO MOUNTAINEERS!!!

Final Score of the BCS GAME:

WVU 35
LSU 31

So put that in your SEC pipe and smoke it, instead of smoking the stuff that you usually do before leaving these blogs here. Not that I would be critical of whatever you might want to put in your peace pipes...just be a little more objective about WVU and Big East football.

Re: item no.4: as a Minnesota fan, it pains me to tell you this, but even I have to admit that it's hilarious. Apparently (this was all reported on a Gopher blog; I refuse to look into it; like I said, too painful) some newspaper on the west coast started a "Glen Mason for Big 10 coach of the year" campaign. The reasoning is simple: if the Gophers' talent level is such that they go 1-11, then how the hell did Mason make it to a bowl game last year (with so many of the same guys) - not to mention all those other years? Anyways - I hate to think about that smarmy bas**rd smiling about this, but even I have to say: Glen Mason for Big 10 coach of the year.

LSU fans...who is the top candidate to replace Miles? It seems weird that he would leave to go to a crappy conference like the Big 10.

"Bowls, Polls, and Tattered souls, etc." was it? How soon we forget... Sorry about that, Stewart. I hope it didn't confuse anybody on his way to the Barnes and Noble. To those jacked up Mountaineer fans (above) who responded negatively to your 'promotion' of Tebow for the Heisman, I can only say that WVU might turn out to be the national championship team they purport to be, but neither Pat White nor Steve Slaton has had the season that Tebow has had. The Mountaineers can still win the mythical national championship -- They just might have to tell their granchildren that they they won the BCS championship without having the Heisman Trophy winner on their team. Nothing wrong with that -- Football is, after all, a team sport.

Average SI ranking of KU's schedule- 72.1. Not only is it ridiculous for them to be ranked 2, it's questionable they should be ranked in the top 25. Period. Mizzo kills Saturday.

KU has had a weak schedule. Since Neb sucks this year, you can't give KU the NC spot. I believe KU fans will face that reality when Mizzou beats them. If you don't agree with me, take a look at KU's schedule. Easy to remain unbeaten I think. It looks likes Haw's schedule, but Haw gets no respect in the polls, even though they are also unbeaten (Heck, they have a 3 loss team ranked ahead of an unbeaten). I think Haw's toughest opponent will be Wash, and not Boise. Question... will Haw get the same respect that Boise got last year, if they have a similar finish? Not likely. I doubt I will ever see a Haw player on the cover of video game (For those who don't know Boise QB on the cover of EA NCAA 08)

The thing is, most of the pre-season Heisman favorites didn't fall out of the race for playing poorly. They fell out of the race because their team lost too many games (and if Tebow's Florida team had a lower profile, three losses would have knocked him out, too) or because they were injured (see Mike Hart).

But Brian Brohm and Ray Rice and Darren McFadden had excellent individual numbers. Their teams took a step back from last year, but, especially in Brohm's case, it was hardly his fault.

Do we really need to see Georgia destroy Boise again. It happened two years ago, and Georgia may be playing even better now. Georgia was just too big and fast for Boise. Speed kills.
OU reminds me a lot of Texas from last year at this point. They had national title hopes and the big 12 wrapped up and then their qb gets hurt and drops their last two so OU won the south instead.
As much as I hate Tebow, he should easily win the Heisman, and if he does not, then there is something fishy going on.

Jennifer,

Your kidding right? Go from a stepping stone type school in LSU to Michigan, one of the most storied and recognizable college teams in the country? You might also not know he played there. Your comments were probably meant as a dig on the Big Ten, but it certainly isn't suprising...

The other thing is, it may be the Big Two and little nine, but that makes it easier to get back to a BCS bowl every year. The SEC may be tougher, I'll admit that, but it doesn't do the league justice when all of its teams elimate each other from the National Championship game. Heck, LSU will probably be elimated this year, even though I think they are the best/most talented team, simply becasue they are going to lose focus because of the coaching situation.

Oh, and by the way, Go Bucks, we're not out of it yet!

Alabama has a winning record in the SEC and loses to UL-Monroe (sp??). Tennessee loses to Cal, and also ran in the PAC 10. Man, that is one tough conference. Give me a break. Anybody got the out of conference records of the BCS conferences?

What is lost in the losing Miles stuff and the big ten vs. Sec is that if LSU loses and do not win the championship than the LSU fans will want him gone. No coach has done less with more than Miles who inherited the most talented team in the country and has yet to win a SEC championship.
Plus maybe he can bring some speed to the slow Big Ten.

Is it that the SEC is so strong this year or is the SEC average? This is a legitimate question with no ill will meant. Maybe, the SEC teams "beat up on each other", because they are decent, but not great. The OOC schedule is nothing special, so I have to pose this question. If SEC fans justify losses in the conference to the conference being so strong, how will we know when the SEC is having a sub par year? They will “beat up on each other” whether they are great or average. Maybe, it is on past reputation alone that everyone, including the voters, thinks that the SEC is the dominant conference. Think about it for a second…Alabama lost to ULM and UGA struggled with Troy, just to name a few games that stick out in my mind. Of course, one will have many teams bowl eligible, when there are, at least, three cupcakes on a typical SEC schedule. I got this exerpt from the Athens Banner-Herald. Yes, Bulldogs…Your Athens paper. Check it out.

“Still, a closer look reveals another, less-flattering explanation for all those gaudy records: SEC teams rarely venture away from home for non-conference games or play schools from other BCS leagues.

To put it bluntly, they've scheduled a bunch of patsies, a factor that should be taken into account at bowl time. Certainly, it's a lot easier to become eligible for the postseason when you have a 4-0 head start and six wins is enough to get in the mix.”

AND

“Even with the addition of a 12th game to the schedule, the SEC is playing only 14 of its 48 non-conference games (29 percent) against other BCS schools. The Big 12 is the only major conference playing less (11 of 48, or 23 percent).

By comparison, the Atlantic Coast Conference leads the way with 46 percent (22 of 48) against BCS opponents, followed by the Big East (15 of 40, 38 percent), the Pac-10 (11 of 30, 37 percent) and the Big Ten (13 of 44, 30 percent).
No one comes close to playing as many out-of-conference games at home as the SEC, which has seven stadiums seating at least 80,000 and likes to use them as much as possible. The conference has 40 of 47 non-SEC games at home (85 percent), the other being a neutral-site game between Alabama and Florida State in Jacksonville, Fla.

The remaining BCS conferences benefit far less from the home-field advantage: ACC (60 percent), Big East (65 percent), Big 12 (67 percent), Pac-10 (70 percent) and Big Ten (77 percent).

Another stat you won't hear the SEC touting is its 5-5 record against BCS opponents, with four such games remaining. That trails the Big Ten (9-4), ACC (9-8) and Pac-10 (6-4), and is just ahead of the Big East (7-8) and Big 12 (5-6).

Delving a little deeper, the SEC's five BCS victories have been against teams with a combined 25-20 record. No. 11 Virginia Tech (7-2) is the only currently ranked team outside the conference to lose to an SEC school, falling 48-7 at No. 2 LSU early in the season. The five BCS losses have been to teams that are 33-11.

The SEC is 31-0 against everyone else, a major reason its rate of non-conference wins (88 percent) is first among the BCS leagues.
"I can understand the reluctance to schedule other national powers, because week in and week out this conference is very competitive," said LSU coach Les Miles, whose team will face out-manned Louisiana Tech on Saturday. "Sometimes if you play an early opponent that's a national team, it requires every effort to get a victory and it may well slow the momentum of your season if you misfire."

Then again, if the SEC is indeed the strongest conference in the country, shouldn't it savor those challenges?”


http://www.onlineathens.com
/stories/111007/football_20071110015.shtml

BTW, if you answer my questions with any hostility, I will know you are an SEC homer, incapable of an unbiased opinion, and will dismiss your answer. Let the discussion begin…

just wondering stewart, does that mean you think tebow is the best offensive player in the country and crabtree is the second best?

Just want to you are dead right about the SEC not playing teams except for Georgia. They play Georgia Tech each year, and schedule someone else tough. Clemson, Colorado (not their fault they were awful), Oklahoma St this year, Arizona St. next year, Lville in the future, etc. You are right that Georgia struggled on defense against Troy, but blew them away on offense. The same Troy that blew out Oklahoma St.

Unless Bradford comes back, we might see Texas in the Big 12 championship game. I don't think that OU will handle Oklahoma state unless Bradford rebounds.

Tennessee to defeat KY then LSU in SEC championship match. Go Vols!!!

Very well said G.L. One thing you missed with all those stats, the SEC has lost 9 of 10 versus the Big East and people say the Big East aren't that good a conference. What does that say of the SEC?

g.l. -

Keep in mind that there are a bunch of games that SEC teams play that are required by state legislatures, or by tradition. That's why Clemson and South Carolina close out every season. Ditto FSU-Florida and UGa-GT. LSU and Tulane have been playing each other as long as they've been playing. It's lopsided in this era of BCS games, but wasn't always so. The legislature also intervened in LSU's schedule and required them to play LaTech so LaTech could get a cut of the money LSU is raking in. There was talk for a while of forcing UT and Memphis to play.

Now, 'Bama-ULM didn't really work out for 'Bama, but if you've got a stadium seating 90k, and you've got to pay for it, why would you go to someone else's place to play, even if your fans would pack the place enough to make it a virtual home game for you. At some point, economics come in to play, and college football is not a socialist-communist organization, like the NFL.

Incidentally, it's not like the SEC are the only people to do this. Did you check out OhioSt's "tour of the state" that came through the 'Shoe this year? Get an eye full of OU's home sked? There aren't many BCS road-warrior teams; USC is an obvious exception.
MissSt is going to WVU next year; UGa goes to Stillwater the year after (I think that's when it's scheduled). 'Bama and FSU goes at least one more year too, I think. LSU went to VT a few years ago (my dad was at that game); this year was the return game at LSU, so it's not like the Tigers didn't go to Blacksburg. 'Bama actually went to Hawaii for 2 years 4-5 years ago, and got the return games from Hawaii over the last 2 seasons.

Has anyone mentioned Florida has lost three games? That's one less than Texas Tech.

Has the fact Florida has three losses escaped you Stew? That is one less than Texas Tech.

The fact that i am the biggest buckeye fan in the country it kills me to say but, if tebow doesnt win the heisman... who will? This kid has been phenominal this year, in fact he very well could steal the only two time heisman from us in Archie Griffin

I think the point that GL is trying to emphasize is that too many SEC fans blindly tout the inherent strength of the conference through the "we beat up on each other, so we're good" argument. Unfortunately, statistics don't bear this out (and yes, I know that UF destroyed OSU last year for the NC).

Anyway, everyone wanted to revoke Michigan's 1-A (or whatever they're called now) membership for the loss to a very good App. State team while little to no mention has been made of the obviously embarrasing loss by Bama with "supercoach" Nick Saban at the helm. What's going on there in Tuscaloosa anyway?

And...Ron Zook is for real. I know you UF fans ran him out of town, but Urban Meyer won the NC with Zook's players; this year, in Meyer's third year...three losses with 75% his players...you do the math.

Illinois is back, and the Big Ten will be that much better when Les Miles joins the ranks of Sweater, Zook, and JoPa (who can still recruit defensive players somehow).

The most outstanding college football player this season has been Dennis Dixon, injury or not. Watching him (1) run for a touchdown with a torn ACL, and then (2) watch Oregon's unstoppable offense deginerate with out him proved his value. An injury at this point should not discount what he did this season and at the very least he should be invited to New York.

OK has a poor history of beating weak teams (see Boise St/TCU results). I think the league is in better hands with Texas.
Tenn over LSU? Tenn has wet its pants in most of its big games this year. Give me a break.
I think the Sugar will pick Fla over GA, assuming LSU goes to the NC. GA won the match between them but Fla will put more $$$ in the till.

I'm sick of people dismissing the Big Ten as the Big Two Little Nine.

Look it up people, between 1998 and 2007 eight of its eleven teams have won or shared the conference championship.

It's a deep conference and winning is, as Ohio State did yesterday, should give its champion considerable national clout.

Stewart

Your blog irritated me as usual. This time your carp about the Mizzou defense. Re: Saturday game, MU led KSU 49-25 before giving up a garbage TD with 2 minutes left. another KSU score was due to a blocked punt. The MU defense is solid, holding NU to 6 points (KU gave up 39!, KSU 73!) and the highest ranked offense (stat wise) TexTech to 10. Meanwhile, KSU Coach Prince said Mizzou was better than KU (MU won there 49-32, KU won there 30-24). So did Colorado's coach. MU won in Boulder 55-10, KU won there 19-14. Meanwhile, you chose a random player for the 11th place team in the cconference to help you rate the teams (since you obviously never bother to watch them -- won;t CNN pay for the Fox Sports cable package?). The stats tell the story already, but after beating KU, MU will continue to shine. You will likely be the only one who misses it -- probably calling up that flirty bar fly they must have supplied you in Eugene a few weeks ago.

for Netizen - When I was growing up the Big Ten was usually the Big Two and the Little Eight. But that was a long time ago. How can you let dribble upset you? The way I see it is that if hearing someone say its the Big Two is the worst thing that happens to you today then you've had a pretty good day.
Currently Pn St & Wisc are very solid, Mich can be, and Illinois may be better than all of them. But OSU is a step or two ahead of the rest. What's your take?

The SEC isn't heads and shoulders above any league this year. In the year of college mediocrity, no conference is that much better than the other and it seems that no team is that much better than another. With that said, here's a couple facts, questions and opinions.

SEC in BCS games since 2001 = 7-1.

Only one-loss teams to win a national champioship since the BCS = 2 SEC teams (UF and LSU)

As for SEC's schedule, we'll learn a lot next weekend in the annual SEC/ACC rivalries (UGA/GT, FSU/UF, USC/Clemson and, this year, Vandy/Wake).

Did you know: Every West Division team has had at least one 10 win season in the past decade.

Also, name the last time that an SEC team repeated as SEC champions.

When's the last time an SEC team lost in the title game? As for you Big-10/11 fans, what's your BCS record? How's the depth in your league?

As for the Big East, you're still living on the WVU win over UGA three years ago. I know you went undefeated in your bowl games last year, but have you looked at your bowl tie-ins and who you played? It's a joke.

There's enough data out there that you can prop up or tear down any conference this year. The bowl games will decide what fans and media can only debate.

Fla to the Sugar bowl over UGA? give me a break...If Hawaii goes undefeated UGA is going to the sugarbowl. Stafford and Moreno will laydown some Warrior A$$... Just like they did to the Florida Gaytors. And as far as Kansas goes..."over rated" I'm not sure I would even watch their bowl game....especially if they play LSU...it would be a smack down...Hell..even their running back Hester is probably faster than the WR's at Kansas....lol..

Tim Tebow is a good player. There is no doubting that. However, are his #'s any greater than Chase Daniel or Graham Harrell? I know, they're "system" QB's. But, then, isn't the same true for Tebow. It's just that his "system" allows him to also be a FB in addition to a QB. Systems are systems and if this is something that must be considered when awarding a Heisman, then every RB that won a Heisman and played for a team that ran the option, or the wishbone, should have an asterisk next to their name. Silly I know, but I don't see the difference when comparing the accomplishments of these RB's to the accomplishments of QB's like Chase Daniel and Graham Harrell.

Tim Tebow is a good player. There is no doubting that. However, are his #'s any greater than Chase Daniel or Graham Harrell? I know, they're "system" QB's. But, then, isn't the same true for Tebow. It's just that his "system" allows him to also be a FB in addition to a QB. Systems are systems and if this is something that must be considered when awarding a Heisman, then every RB that won a Heisman and played for a team that ran the option, or the wishbone, should have an asterisk next to their name. Silly I know, but I don't see the difference when comparing the accomplishments of these RB's to the accomplishments of QB's like Chase Daniel and Graham Harrell.

Tim Tebow is a good player. There is no doubting that. However, are his #'s any greater than Chase Daniel or Graham Harrell? I know, they're "system" QB's. But, then, isn't the same true for Tebow. It's just that his "system" allows him to also be a FB in addition to a QB. Systems are systems and if this is something that must be considered when awarding a Heisman, then every RB that won a Heisman and played for a team that ran the option, or the wishbone, should have an asterisk next to their name. Silly I know, but I don't see the difference when comparing the accomplishments of these RB's to the accomplishments of QB's like Chase Daniel and Graham Harrell.

Either way...we need a PLAYOFF...bowl games have no meaning anymore...Who cares about the "Tostito Bowl" "Nokia Bowl",,they lost all meaning when the NCAA sold out a long time ago.

OH..one more thing about the guy who did all the stats in an earlier post..hahahaha...dude...be for real...If you want to compare stats and not look at strength of schedule then Hawaii would be the best team "OF ALL TIME"...Geeess..dude...get real

I've read alot of ridiculous post on here tonight. Let me start by saying that I'm a huge West Virginia fan. With that being said, I'll leave the following thoughts:
I believe that Dennis Dixon or Tim Tebow are definetely the front runners for the Heisman trophy. Pat White is good and had a good year, but he didn't do AS mch as these other two, in my opinion. I think WVU has a strong chance to end up playing for the National Title. I hope they show up for that game if it takes place. By that I mean, I'm not sure if the WVU defense can handle the speed of a team like LSU. I'm also not sure the WVU offense (as high powered as it may be) is enough to outrun the fast defense of LSU. We've seen alot of upsets this year in the college ranks, especially every #2 ranked team. This season proves, more than any other I can remember, that there needs to be a playoff system.
You have an undefeated Hawaii team that is ranked below teams with 3 losses. How can that be?
I'll leave you with this....it warms my heart to see Notre Dame SUCK this bad. I hate the Irish with all of my being and soul. For me, this has been a great season to remember.

I'm sure I'm going to ruffle the feathers of a lot of Florida fans here, but...

Why is nobody talking about the fact that Tebow is a product of the system that Urban Meyer employs in the UF offense for all his ridiculous numbers? I mean, last I checked why does Florida even have a running back on the roster? Now, this is not to disparage Tebow in any way, or to cheapen his accomplishments. It's just that universities like Texas Tech normally have their numbers discounted (notice I used a Big XXII team and NOT Hawaii...so no competition argument can be used) as products of a "system," so why does Tebow escape the criticism when considering his Heisman consideration?

To all those SEC haters who want to manipulate their stats to make sorry conferences look tough, I will let a panel of 8 national professional sports analysts pick the best conference over you kool-aid drinkers any day.

Bill Trocchi said it best in his Conference Power Ranking column recently:

Eight experts take a crack at ranking BCS conferences.

The combined BCS conference rankings of eight experts

Conference Points
1. SEC (8) 48
2. Pac-10 36
3. Big 12 31
4. ACC 20
5. Big Ten 17
6. Big East 16
** First place votes in parenthesis.

That pretty much sums it up. Good night.

Hey SEC_Rules...most of those people had OSU winning the NC last year, and probably Miami in 2002. We'll see what happens at the bowls. The SEC may play itself out of the NC entirely if LSU keeps playing undisciplined...now wouldn't THAT be ironic?

To the poster citing the 'national sportswriters' as the basis for the SEC superiority...

Those would be the same sportswriters who wouldn't be caught dead predicting USC/Standford outcome...or ULM/Alabama...or (ironically) vote Kansas number 2 (since they couldn't POSSIBLY be a good TEAM since they played 'weak' non-conference and big XII teams having 'inferior' athletes themselves - btw, since when does athleticism absolutely predict outcomes...this is football not track)...

Is it so outrageous that parity has hit the SEC as well?

Dr. Freud, paging Dr. Freud. Dr. Freud please go to a white courtesy phone...

The overwhelming and universal need SEC fans have to constantly proclaim their superiority smacks of classic overcompensation. I'll bet somewhere in the back of their minds they doubt that they're really as good as they say they are. What else explains their constant need for affirmation?

I suppose nothing short of a congressional resolution proclaiming the SEC the permanent home of the NCAA football championship will satisfy their need.

Tim Tebow is by far the best college football player in America this year. I can't name one other player in college football that means more to his team than Tebow. He should win the Heisman. Florida is going to be scary for the next few years.

You're all mindless whiners. I'm not a Kansas fan by any stretch, but I'm able to see the facts and not be blinded by idiocy.

Plain and simple: When you're in a BCS conference, and you've played through 11 games, and you're the ONLY UNDEFEATED SCHOOL left from a BCS conference, you deserve the number two position. PERIOD.

It is not Kansas' fault that they didn't play UT or OU or a good A&M team this year. Their non-conference schedule is one thing, but Nebraska sucking? Nebraska's fault. Don't blame Kansas for that.

It doesn't matter. Even after Kansas wins the Big 12 and sits at 13-0, you'll all think they don't deserve to be there. Well, the fact is that they do now, and they will even more so then. PERIOD.

The sugar bowl is about money. If Tenn plays LSU for the title the Sugar bowl gets its pick of SEC teams. It won't take Tenn. If GA plays LSU GA ends up with 3 losses. Let's be honest. GA on one channel, Fla & Tebow on the other. 11 out of 10 watch the Gators, right?

For Matt - The teams with the best record in the Big 12 are OK, Tex Tech, Missou & Texas. How has Kansas done against them this year? Right, they haven't played the four best teams in their conf and their non-conf sched is Cent Mich, SE La, Toledo and FIU. At this late date can you imagine a BCS team having done less to deserve a ranking?

Whatever opinion one may have of Hawaii's schedule and record, little comment has been made of Hawaii's coach, June Jones, the other unbeaten coach on this year's schedule. That is a pity.

In Friday's game against Nevada, Coach Jones' showed his commendable character once again. In the final drive, with 2:16 left and starting from Hawaii's 12, a field goal was needed to sustain the season. With everything (BCS, perfect season etc) on the line and with Heisman candidate and superstar quarterback Colt Brennan available, Jones chose to remain with (regular second string) quarterback Tyler Graunke. Graunke duly drove the Warriors to the Nevada 27 for kicker Kelly to win the game.

Obviously Jones believes he has a great team that could get it done even without Brennan.

What is interesting about the team is none was recruited to Hawaii as a highly touted prospect direct from any mainland high school, unlike Pete Carroll and his 10 high school All-American running backs. According to Jones, Hawaii's record for recruiting such blue-chip players is 0 for 500. Not surprising given Hawaii's extremely meager recruitment budget (2% of say Florida). Yet 7 of last year's Warriors were drafted or invited to NFL training camps.

This little noticed amazing achievement is only possible because unlike some coaches with tremendous records, Jones makes his players better by actually teaching them individually the skills needed to play their positions effectively and not depend just on the skills the players brought with them. His former players in college and the professional ranks , like Jeff Ulbrich and Ashley Lelie, will attest to that.

Jones coaching skills were immediately evident in his first year at Hawaii when he took essentially the same squad that went 0-12 the previous year (under Fred Von Appen) to 9-4 becoming the CNN/SI Coach Of The Year.

For all the teams looking for a new coach, don’t bother contacting Coach Jones with your check book. He took the Hawaii post for $320,000 initially, declining a multi million offer from the San Diego Chargers. Sighs a disbelieving Bobby Beathard, then general manager of the Chargers, “He told me it was his dream to be the head coach of Hawaii. He told me he wanted to be the father of a football tradition.”

June Jones. Great coach. Great teacher. A great educator of young men.

If Hawaii should end this season unbeaten, it is time to honor him again as Coach Of The Year.

For Charles,

'Undeserving' may be a bit extreme. If we were talking about a more traditional power (Imagine if OSU hadn't slipped up at Illinois - OkSU or A&M could've easily played spoiler at home but KU remained consistent and won) you know there wouldn't be any controversy.

The paradigm currently is this: win out in a BCS conference and you get your shot at the championship. Any argument to the contrary is pretty much spinning your wheels under the current system.

THIS IS NOT A PREDICTION, BUT....

What kind of chaos would ensue if LSU, Missouri, West Virginia and Arizona State all incur a 2nd loss, and if Kansas loses to Oklahoma in the Big 12 championship for its first loss.

In that scenario, Ohio State and Kansas would be the sole one-loss teams in contention, and there would be perhaps 14 two-loss teams. How do you decided a championship in that case?

Yes, the other morning I read June Jones' comment that a 2-point victory over a traditional weakling like Nevada without Brennan was proof Hawaii was loaded with stars. I am glad I did not have coffee in my mouth at the time.

for bored aggie - Yes, you are right and I am sure it has not gone unnoticed by the colleges. Play a weak non-conf schedule and focus on going undefeated in conf. True you might get squeezed out like Auburn did a few years back if there are three undefeated teams, but the odds are good that you won't.
Why should Texas take an unnecessary risk and play OSU? Look at the BCS confs non-conf schedules this year and we are clearly losing those games. If you haven't just finished a meal glance at who LSU plays next year. I am an SEC fan but I hope LSU gets squeezed out because of it. Pathetic.
And no longer should a non-BCS team risk the embarrassment Boise St faced at Georgia two years ago. Go undefeated and you likely have a BCS bid. Boise St may prove this year that you can lose a game and get a bid.
Whoever it was at Utah who made out this year's schedule was a winner before the season started and remains so now. The people at Boise St & Hawaii were losers before the season started and remain so now, I don't care how many powderpuffs they beat. Just my opinion.

To Netizen,

Do what BCS always does - prioritize by wins/losses, then punish the most recent loser, apply pre-conceived biases (zomg, SEC is the king of foosball, KU is a basketball school), and predict the most lucrative matchup. Ensuing drama/debate/media coverage = profit!

Que talking head/rabid fan screaming for a playoff while the rest of the nation scratches their head and wonders why the alleged lovers of the pomp and festivity of the find that the college bowl atmosphere isn't enough anymore...

for Netizen - In your scenario the championship is decided when OSU makes Kansas regret they were invited to the NC game. See it diffferently?

For Charles,

I completely agree that it is much more enjoyable to watch close games during the 'exhibition season.' tu/OSU were definitely fun to watch. However, the system is what it is and punishing KU for playing according to the rules laid out previously is out of line (I'd like to see strength of schedule factor heavily in ratings, but that's another can of worms).

At this point it simply isn't worth scheduling tougher opponents to fill out the schedule (especially to open the season) to those who make the calls.

As a fan of BCS conference team(s) it's definitely hard to stomach seeing Hawaii squeaking by in several games and still having a chance at a BCS bid (guilty until proven innocent). It's just short-sighted to completely discount these teams though (Boise State v. OU). At least take solace in the fact that there's very little room for those types of teams in the current system? /shrug

Charles:

I think Ohio State gets there with one loss, but not a one-loss Kansas, whose loss was most recent in my nightmare scenario. That leaves the field of 14 two-loss teams to choose from, some of which lost recently and some of which failed to win their conferences.

Actually, I'd kinda like to see this nightmare happen. Bring on a playoff.

I think its very interesting how obviously attached sports fans get to what's "theirs". I'm guilty of it, too. SEC fans and Big Ten fans have to argue incessantly about which conference is "better". And its a good debate, but one that will end with agreeing to disagree.

My attachment to the-now-suddenly-relevant Missouri Tigers stems from how quickly people dismiss the Big XII teams in their "scenarios". Almost every scenario I read online, including a FoxSports.com one from earlier this afternoon, just assume that the Big XII will go out of their way to make sure that neither KU nor MU win out. Which, considering ONE of those two teams will win on Saturday and then possibly face a depleted OU team (minus Bradford, if he is still hurt) or a Texas team thats not firing on all cylinders; doesn't seem to far-fetched to think that the winner of the Arrowhead matchup could run the table.

But there are just as many scenarios that allow West Virginia's high powered attack, or the Buckeye's ridiculous defense to fill one of the two NC slots. And as long as they include LSU slipping as well so one of those teams plays Mizzou, more power to them!!! We all root for "ours" to do well, and to do so with thoughtful well-researched stats is wonderful... but so is just blindly rooting for your team to go out and win every week.

RE: Heisman

If you took Tebow away from the Gators (remembering that UF's 3rd string could start at most "FBS" schools) what would be the difference in their record?

If you took Chase Daniel away from the Tigers (remembering that our 2nd string QB, while an Elite 11 QB in high school, hasn't ever played more than Garbage Time since joining MIzzou) what would be the difference?

An 10-1 team, suddenly becoming Iowa State? Or an 8-3 team suddenly becoming Vandy? I think that Daniel has meant SO MUCH to this program's turnaround, and to its performance on the field, that *IF* MU were to win out until the Heisman voters are due to send in their envelopes, that he should be sitting right NEXT to Tebow with an equal shot at hoisting the Stiff-Arm.

Hey Stewie,

As an OSU graduate (Ohio State) moving out west a second time I thought it would be awesome to attend the Hawaii-UNR game.

Stadium and game wise it wasn't even comparable to the horseshoe...but that's not my bone of contention. My problem was the lack of a time-out with 45 seconds left. I was in fact furious. What kind of lousy coach would allow a field goal and then run time out?

The answer is the kind of coach whom would like his team to gain 1 million dollars for helping his conference get to a BCS bowl. I didn't read all of the previous e-mails, but, did you not at least suspect that there was SOMETHING wrong with that play call?

Netizen, This phenomenon you speak of goes way back to the antebellum South. By the way that most Southerners tell it, in the SOUTH, the air is cleaner, the weather is better, the women are prettier, the food is better, the grass is greener, and OF COURSE the football teams are the absolute BEST etc.....

G.L. makes a great point about the fallacy of the SEC's perceived superiority. I've always griped about their tradition of scheduling four non-conference games with one BCS team and three patsies. But looking at the talent they recruit, I still doubt there's a better conference. Fact is, there are arguments and stats to support every conference being the best, but it’s all just opinion. What is clear is that some conferences are more competitive than others. About two-thirds of the time the OSU-MU winner takes the Big-10. Not much parity there. By contrast, there has been six different teams in the last four SEC title games. This doesn't mean the best team in the SEC is better than the best team in the Big-10, just that the SEC is more competitive.

To get an idea of which conference is really best, there has to be a lot more play between BCS conferences. This year 65 BCS conference teams scheduled only 76 games in another BCS conference, barely one per team. It seems the SEC isn't the only conference skirting the real competition. I'd like to see BCS conference schools required to schedule 5 games in-conference, 5 in the other BCS conferences, and 2 patsies. If every BCS conference had 2 divisions and a title game, 5 games in-conference would be enough.

Knuckles:

There's perception, and reality. In the ten years between 1998 and 2007 EIGHT teams won or shared the Big Ten championship. Its deeper and more competitive than you realize.

leading up to this week here are the facts:

Oregon entering week 12 at #2 AP
Loses their stating quarterback
Loses to UNRANKED 4-6 Arizona (wtf?)
I thought this was the #2 TEAM… I guess it was just the #2 QB
Oregon drops to #9 (for proving they quite the winning team)

Oklahoma entering week 12 at #3 AP
Loses their starting quarterback
Loses to UNRANKED 7-4 Texas Tech (at least a winning record here)
#3 QB goes down… #3 Team follows suit
Oklahoma drops to #10 (once again, a well proven team)

Hawaii entering week 12 at #13 AP
Loses their starting quarterback
BEATS UNRANKED 5-4 Nevada (as well a ranked TEAM should)
DROPS to #14 (wtf?)

Are you voting on the TEAM… ya know... team… team effort... the ol’ college try…
or just your favorite schools?
If there ever has been any evidence that this is all just a popularity contest, this is it!
Oh wait I forgot, BCS teams are allowed a dozen or so mulligans. Hey, florida got three!

Ok now lay the spin on me!

Spin Spin Spin

Lloyd Carr's bowl record vs. the SEC: 4-2.

Let's see if I understand.........
LSU has one loss to 7-4 Kentucky.
OSU has one loss to 9-3 Illinois.
Illinois losses came to Missouri 8-1, Iowa 6-6 and Michigan 8-4 a combined .667.
Kentucky's losses came to S Carolina 6-5, Florida 8-3, Miss St., 6-5 and Georgia 9-2, a combined .659.
Arguably, OSU should be ranked above LSU.
Anyway, I want to see Kansas and Hawaii (if they go undefeated) in the BCS. Yeah Baby!!!

Q: How many coaches have won 300 college football games?

A: One

Nice to see you acknowlege a major milestone in a sport you supposedly know and then write articles about Stew !

LSU's record against the Big 10:

Six Wins, 3 Losses, 1 Tie

Is this really important?

Since the Rose Bowl is the big deal, how about . . .

LSU's record against the PAC 10:

12-3


Can Lloyd say that?


Again . . is this really important?

Dear Stew:
Great comments. How many Heisman winners have come from a team that is not the winner of a major conference or a notional champion? Now, a tale of two Techs. Thanks for recognizing Michael Crabtree. He is a phenom. If he played for any of the top 10 teams or traditonal powers, he would be getting notice, even if he is only a freshman. How about the guy (Graham Harrell) who throws the ball to him? Why so little respect? Is Kansas producing because of a system? How about the Patriots? How about Hawaii? Oklahoma was doing almost as well before last week. It is an offense and they all make it work! Yes, he had a bad stretch and threw a slug of intercepts. But out of 72 passes, two were intercepted, one on a tip. I'll take that! If Texas Tech could average 100 yards rushing per game, they would be 10-2 right now. And finally, the offensive coordinator at Virginia Tech has really stepped up his diversity of play calling the last three games. If they had all starters back on O-line, they could beat almost anybody right now. The hardest test will be in-state rival Virginia. Great game to watch! Take care.

For the "Kansas hasn't played anyone" crowd, you have a point. But, a counterpoint...LSU lost to Kentucky, who is now unranked and would have been unranked long ago without the LSU win. WVU lost to now unranked South Florida, who would have never risen as high as they did without that win over WVU. Ohio State lost to Illinois, who would still likely be unranked without that win. One reason Kansas' schedule looks so weak is that they BEAT everyone. When a top team loses to a mediocre team, the win makes that team look better than mediocre, temporarily. If Kansas beats Mizzou and the Big 12 South winner, there is no denying they deserve a spot in the National Championship. So, why worry about where they are now? They'll either earn the spot, or they'll be exposed.

Everyone at LSU since Day 1 knew Les Miles had strong ties to Michigan. Skip Bertman was a genius when he coached LSU baseball and is a genius as an AD putting that 1.25 million buyout for Miles to leave for Michigan vs 500K for any other school. Les Miles would be crazy for leaving probably the best football program in the best football conference in America for a school that is mediocre right now at best. Recruiting is much tougher at Michigan than it is at LSU, and the talent up there is nothing compared to the talent that would be had at LSU. On top of that in Miles contract if LSU wins the championship he would be paid in the top 3 coaches and thank Nick Saban for that. Miles would leave almost 4 million on the table in addition to the 1.25 million buyout to go to the Maize and Blue. If Miles does bolt, Skip Bertman should make the first phone call to Mark Mangino.

No matter what everyone says about KU's schedule, the Jayhawks at the start were a 7-8 win team AT BEST. I bet that NO one ever thought that KU would have a shot at LSU for the title. Remember, KU is a basketball school. Imagine what Mangino could do at a football school...ie LSU?

I still like a KU-LSU matchup for the championship and LSU should win, provided that Miles has not bolted for Michigan before that. KU has not seen a team like LSU all year.

Sorry, but Crabtree doesn't deserve to be in the discussion. Not because he's a freshman, or because he's a system guy, but because at the moment of his team's greatest need, he came up small. Against Oklahoma State, with just seconds left in the game, he dropped the game winning TD pass. Nobody but me apparently saw it or remembers, but it was a great throw, and because of Crabtree, TT has 4 losses instead of 3. He's had a great season, but not a Heisman season.

for Netizen - I agree one loss by Kansas likely means a 2-loss team would get preference over it in the NC, but not by much. I remember how Stew started the season by saying no school with Hawaii's schedule could rise to a BCS bid. Now he is even saying that 1 loss by Boise St will be good enough. Kansas could beat Missou, then lose to OK, and still get a BCS bid. The Sugar has last pick and gets Hawaii or a 1-loss Boise, and whoever picks next to last is stuck with Kansas under that scenario.
If OSU gets in the NC I read that no Big Ten team will qualify to replace it. So it's Ariz St, USC or Oreg against whom? If ASU beats USC it goes to the Rose or maybe the NC, leaving Oreg (not much of a team with no Dixon obviously) for the Rose. For OSU to make the NC probably LSU or maybe WV must lose. If LSU loses it may go to the Rose as Tenn or GA would get the Sugar bid. If WV loses it still may get the Big East BCS bid.
However you cut it I see a pretty lousy BCS bowl picture with powderpuffs (Kansas, Boise, Hawaii)and defective teams like Oreg, Okla, and the ACC champ dotting the picture. That changes if USC wins out and faces OSU in the Rose, but other than the NC game I see nothing of excitement except for local fans. It's just a shame that bowls are locked into choices and that Kansas and Boise/Hawaii can't be lined up to face each otehr to determine the champion of the powderpuff schedules.

Ok - here is the most difficult thing about this weekends MU-KU game... whoever loses the game (MU-KU) has to cheer for the winner (MU-KU) to win the Big 12 championship... then the winner will go to the BCS Championship and the loser of the MU-KU game should go to the 2nd BCS game and leave out TX and OK...

>>>>Recruiting is much tougher at Michigan than it is at LSU, and the talent up there is nothing compared to the talent that would be had at LSU.

That was perhaps the most ignorant comment that I've ever read in a blog. Now we've found evidence of a southern strain of Homo sapiens that has a propensity to play football better than the northern subspecies? LMAO.

You also may have left out the fact that the some recruits choose Michigan because of the education that they receive there.

We always hear about how KU or MU hasn't played anyone ranked... KU hasn't lost to anyone (ranked or unranked); Of the one loss teams: Missouri lost (beat themselves) AT #4 Oklahoma (still top 10); Ohio State lost to unranked Illinois (which Missouri beat); West Virginia lost to Southern Florida (who isn't ranked now); Arizona State lost at Oregon (same quality loss as Missouri); LSU lost at Kentucky (Great game) - LSU is a great team...

If Missouri or Kansas wins the Big XII Championship - they should play for the National Championship and the one who loses between Missouri/Kansas deserves the 2nd BCS Bowl game..

CRABTREE for Heisman... 100+ years of records shattered. System or not, this will go down as one of the most (if not the most) impressive season ever for an NCAA BCS reciever. The point he is a Freshman should make his case stronger.

Tebow is the most exciding player in the country I think, and I love SEC football, but other QB's have had better seasons. Not the case at WR.

KU’s legitimacy will be determined over the next few weeks / games – period.

Sure, they haven’t played any notable contenders up until now, but this is college football where just about anyone can win (or lose) on any day against anyone (just look at App State, or any of the other 10+ notable upsets that went down this season). If KU is the real deal, they will prevail against a stout Missouri squad, and a no less difficult Big 12 Championship opponent. If, and I stress the _if_, KU pulls off these 2 victories, there’s no disputing their place in the national title game, presumably against LSU. If this scenario does play out, I’d have to hold my tongue on any predictions as to a National Champion until we see how KU performs in the next 2 games: If they make “light work” of their opponents, look out LSU. If they struggle, I’d have to side with the Cajun Kings…

On a closing note, I’m a Husker fan but have to give credit to Mangino and Co. for one of the best fundamentally coached teams in College Football today. I won’t say that KU doesn’t have any “superstars”, a point that can be argued, but will say that they are an extremely well coached team that executes with little to no mistakes – a factor that has gotten them to where they are today.

Go Big Red!

OK I have read through about 90% of these comments and have came up with a few conclusions. First I must say I ma na SEC fan and live in SEC country. Ok #1 I think the Big 12 has the best conference this year, with Kansas - Missouri - and Oklahoma in the Top 10 in the BCS I don't see how they can't be. The SEC is tough but I'm sorry by beloved Vols are about to win the East and needed a last second missed FG to beat Vandy. They also crushed Georgia who is supposed to be the hottest team in college football and LSU lost to Kentucky, enough said. #2 I think Tebow should win the Heisman. Ok he's a system QB, SO WHAT!!!! Is there somewhere in the Heisman bylaws that says you have to play in a traditional pro-style offense? He runs the same offense as Dennis Dixon and this time last week everyone said he was a front runner. #3 I don't care if Kansas hasn't played anyone, it's not their fault. These schedules are made like 5-10 years in advance, you have to play the cards your dealt. If they run the table then so be it.

Charles: Your bashing of weaklings like Kansas/Hawaii/Boise State in your numerous posts tonight are unfounded but you wouldn't know it because you are a "traditional". OK lost to a better team in the Fiesta Bowl, voted as one of the Top 3 bowl games ever played. Kansas/Hawaii/Boise State may not have 100+ years history as programs like Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska and Notre Dame but this season they do have a better record and in the years to come they will chip away on the status of the big and slow boys - because they are teams.

In ending, the NC game or any bowl game usually is not necessarily decided on the field it's ultimately decided by network ratings who plays whom and where. It's all about money, after all this is America where every 30 second commercial counts for the bottom line of the networks. Sad but true. I bet you Kansas looses one game, they tumble down 10-12 spots in the rankings even though they got beat by a ranked team vs. Ohio only dropped a few spots after loosing to unranked Illinois. Why is that? Media bias and Ohio has more tradition than Kansas - but the same record as Kansas should they loose. I hope Mangino's team pulls through and wins out just to see some media exec's puke all over themselves, then Kansas beats Ohio State in the NC game. Priceless.

for servant 63 - One small detail you are overlooking is that Tex and OK are probably the two best teams in the Big 12. They have taken losses, but have played the best the Big 12 has to offer. Do you really think Kansas or Missouri could whip OK and Tex? Not if those schools play to their ability, and don't take Missou & Kans lightly.

for Josh - Agreed, I think the Kans non-conf schedule is about as nauseating as they come. Only LSU's non-conf schedule next year looks as bad to me. But if Kansas makes 'light work' of Missou and either Tex or OK given the situation put them in the NC. But I have to tell you I would place big money on the idea that no one in the Big 12, and few teams in the nation will make light work of those two. You can't really argue with me on that can you?

It is amazing that people continue to dog KU's schedule. Everyone knew what it looked like before the season started and STILL, NO ONE had them as successful as they have proved themselves to be. So granted, they've played a somewhat weak schedule, but they've handled it with dominance. Every week it's the same story, this is a prove it game for KU and they win, next week rolls around and it's a prove it game AGAIN. How incredible. Does anybody remember Boise St. last year? Horribly weak schedule and yet went on to beat a big BCS team in Okalahoma. So why shouldn't an undefeated BCS Kansas team get the same love a year later?

for navspecwarcom - Clearly what Kansas/Hawaii/ Boise St do not have are victories over bonafide Top 25 teams. I suspect you add up their victories over top flight opponents this year and last and the three of them taken together will fall short of what teams like Fla, LSU, OSU and others have managed this season alone.
Once you agree that quality wins on the field, and not paper analyses that put Boise St in the BCS last year are what count the most, then those three count the least. None of the three I have mentioned have a top quality victory this year so you and others place them high guessing on what they would do if they played this competition. Fla played LSU, Aub, GA & Kentucky in one marathon stretch. Meanwhile June Jones tells us that a 2-point victory over Nevada without Brennan is proof that Hawaii is loaded with stars. Give me a break.

for large marge - find the definition 'beats up on weaklings' in Webster. Above it you will find the word 'bully' , not 'champion'. When I read a Kansas fan say that Toledo is a special challenge because Kansas lost to Toledo last year I laugh. If Michigan were to say that Appal St represents a special challenge next year because of this year, and somehow raises Michigan's strength of schedule, the posts would be filled with insults about them. I think you realize this.

People...can we PLEASE stop dogging other teams' schedules? It's not like the team can do anything about it anyway. I mean seriously - do you think the kids at Kansas, or Ohio State, or even LSU for that matter really care if they beat a "elite" opponent as seen by the media? Or, more probably, do you think they care about winning games and trying to win a National Championship.

At the end of the day, these exhibition bowl games aren't as much about who is the "better" team as it is about matchups. Does anyone REALLY think that the 1985 Dolphins were a "better" team than the Bears? Yet they won the only game against Chicago that year.

College football is like the current World Series of Poker...amatures win now instead of the favored pros due to the staggering odds and great luck involved. The best the pros can do is play solidly to put themselves in position to win, get a little lucky, get a favorable matchup against an opponent who they can beat, and then hope it's enough to convince everyone else that they're the best.

So enjoy competitive games from such "powerhouses" as Kansas, Hawaii, Boise State, Appalachian State, and Louisiana-Monroe. These teams would get destroyed on the field in my grandfather's time...reduction of scholarships has been good for the game as a whole because now "any team can win on any Saturday" --- and more importatnly, idiots like all of us will now argue strength of schedule, merits of victories, and whether Team A or Team B "deserves" to be in the mythical National Championship game. For the NCAA...business is good.

What the hell happened to laughing at your conference rivals for losing to a garbage team? Alabama loses to Louisiana something or other and the rest of the SEC has to come to its defense? Screw that. Eat it Saban. He's a liar and now he's a loser.

I'm going to blow everyone's mind with the following statement. The big conferences all have 4 or 5 teams that could beat anyone in the country if they played well(with the exception of the ACC). This regionalsim has no rational thought behind it.

Thanks for the love for Bill Lynch at Indiana. He kept the team together after Coach Hep's death and got us not only past Purdue but into a bowl. He has Hoosier Nation thinking football even though basketball has begun. Of course, after the recent SI article, you might consider Coach Hep not only for his work at Indiana but for Roethlisberger's success in the NFL.

gatorjohn04...

Most SEC fans are in shock and awe that the "best conference in the country, bar none" could even LOSE a game to a team such as La-Monroe. What were the Cajuns thinking? Don't they know that the mere mention of the letters S-E-C means that you shouldn't even play the game if you're the opponent...because you can't win due to the overwhelming "speed," "athleticism," and "overall talent exclusive to SEC schools in the south?"

bgault, I believe the SEC does have more speed than the other conferences. I don't know the numbers but it seems that more and more teams are relying on freshmen and sophomores this year. Look at Georgia and Florida for example. Both teams are incredibly talented but they rely on young players. The result is uneven play and a couple of bumps in the road. And that seems to be true across the board. USC has brought in top ranked classes but they can't get their young talent to produce on offense. I think Illinois is the most talented team in the Big 10, but again youth at the skill positions and a coach that is still learning and they lose to a bad Iowa team costing them the Rose Bowl. Louisville brought back a Heisman candidate but they lost allot on defense and they might miss out on a bowl this year after being in the top 5. It's inexperience that is difference this year not you whining about the speed of the SEC.

Open Letters to:

WVU fans,

Your team looks good early in games. If Pat White would stop fumbling in the fourth quarter to almost blow games to Louisville and Cincinatti, you would be getting more respect.

KU fans,

All the stats look good except for the schedule. My Texans would look like the Pats too if they played nothing but the best of the NCAA teams instead of NFL. If and when y'all beat real teams MU and OK, then you can talk. Otherwise, the AD softening your schedule to try to just get to a bowl may now back-fire now that y'all are exceeding expectations and a marquee ooc win.

OSU fans,

Stop whining. You know why you don't get any love right now. Stay at home and wait to prove it on the field against a good non conference team, either in the Rose Bowl or the NC if you get lucky. We aren't saying you're bad, we just don't know what you are after last years debacle and no real ooc games since.

Gatorjohn...

I was being sarcastic to the question you posed about the 'Bama loss to La-Monroe. I guess you didn't quite catch that overtone, no matter how obvious it may have been.

And, I certainly wasn't whining about SEC speed. I was making fun of the SEC idiots who consistently use that argument about why the conference is "the best conference EVER in football" ... 'Bama taking LSU to the house for 55+ minutes, and then losing to the likes of La-Monroe is funny to me. Everyone is SOOOOO cocksure that "the top twelve teams in the SEC would go undefeated in [insert conference here]." (Oops...there's that sarcasm again...did you catch it this time?)

“for Josh - Agreed, I think the Kans non-conf schedule is about as nauseating as they come. Only LSU's non-conf schedule next year looks as bad to me. But if Kansas makes 'light work' of Missou and either Tex or OK given the situation put them in the NC. But I have to tell you I would place big money on the idea that no one in the Big 12, and few teams in the nation will make light work of those two. You can't really argue with me on that can you?”

Hey Charles,
NO, I totally agree with you. The only way KU owns OU or TX is if OU or TX allows it to happen (i.e. they beat themselves). I think OU fell victim to that a little this weekend in Lubbock, although Texas Tech is no slouch and played phenomenally for 4 straight quarters. (It didn’t help the Sooners that their star QB was knocked out of the game early on either.) Saturday’s showdown @ Arrowhead (KU / Mizzou) will be somewhat telling…

Someone mentioned earlier, that Mizzou and KU could not beat OU or Texas...well I don't agree with that, and few would, now I admit, with a healthy Bradford, OU would be favored of course, but certainly not UNBEATABLE...

But Texas???? They lost to K-State and barely beat Nebraska, need I say more??????? I think that Mizzou or KU would be FAVORED against Texas and rightfully so. Now I'm not bashing Texas, they are a good team and would certainly have a chance to beat Mizzou or KU, but I think the odds would be heavily against that, Mizzou and KU are simply too strong for Texas, but that's why the play the games, sometimes the best team doesn't win, so Texas would have a shot

Ryan: Does one loss ruin a program's reputation? Yes, Ohio State was destroyed by Florida and I'm not even arguing they should be in the BCS this year. They lost and they have no more claim to a spot in the championship than any other one-loss team. That said, they killed Texas at Texas the year they lost to Florida. AND they barely lost to national champ Texas and Vince Young the year before (when Troy Smith played only part of the game). I really don't think they need to PROVE themselves to anyone. Anymore than anyone else anyway. It's like saying Florida really wasn't that good LAST year because they've lost three times THIS year.

LSU fans: Who do you think will replace Les Miles? Do you think he will leave before the bowl game?

Yes Ryan,

We Buckeye fans know why we don't get any love. It's called jealousy; that such a talented football program can have their team arise out of the ashes of it predecessor to remain national title contenders.

When you're on top, whether in sports, business or personal life you're the target of lesser people who are in denial of reality and the only way they can elevate themselves is to bring, or attempt to bring, everyone else around them down to their level.

If you or anyone else thinks that is arrogance, I'm sorry if reality makes you feel that way. We're (Buckeye and B10 fans) not the ones going around declaring superiority when the facts prove otherwise.

The SEC went 1 - 2 in bowls last year against a supposedly slower much more inferior "down" Big 10.

We're smart enough to know that we aren't the clear and best conference in the country right now, but we aren't so dumb as to think we aren't competitive either.

Good luck to all your teams and conferences in the final two weeks of the drive towards the NC and lets hope for some exciting and interesting bowl games this season, no matter how the dominoes might fall!

Regards to all!

for kcboricua - Match either Missou or Kansas against either Tex or OK, and watch who the people putting money on the line favor. Me too. I would love to bet on Tex or OK, and of course with your comments I could even expect favorable odds. You're presenting the adoring fan approach, not a thinking one.
The fact is that if coaches at Tex, OSU, Fla or LSU presented the same results as Hawaii, Kansas or Boise St, maybe one quality win in the past two years fans would say they have lost it. But fans at those small time schools say it's not fair to measure us against the elite teams. But they want the same respect. And why? Because they are traditional weaklings and the standards should be different for a weakling. And with that thinking traditional weaklings stay traditional weaklings. I can just hear the sales pitch to a prospective Kansas recruit now. Hey did you see that great victory over Toledo. They can't beat us two years in a row. Not Kansas.

Why would Miles leave what is now and will continue to be a top-tier football program for another program of equal value but without the players he has molded and the staff/trust he has built up? LSU fans love him, as do the players and coaching staff. What more could he want?

Oh, yea. If Tim Tebow doesn't win the Heisman, they need to disband the whole sham of an award going forward.

He is clearly the best player this year and most likely the next multiple year winner...if he stays in school and if the voters have their eyes open and are taking their Alzheimer meds.

Thats coming from a Buckeye fan!

Regards to all!

For Charles...

Non-BCS schools are NOT weaklings. Explain to me how Louisville goes from CUSA to the Big East and is suddenly playing for the NC at the start of every year? If BSU, TCU, Southern Miss, or the like jumped to a BCS conference, they would all the sudden be powerhouses as well, just like UL. Oh, and when TCU and Louisville were both in Conference USA, TCU dominated their games. But whatever, it is a double standard.

Oh, and those non-BCS programs don't get anywhere close to as much money as BCS schools do. Those BCS programs are guaranteed many great bowl games, and money flows throughout the conference, no matter how poorly all the schools play. Non-BCS schools have no where near the exposure, wealth, and over-hyping that the "big boys" get.

Here’s ssomething to consider that will rile up everyone. No one is talking about it, but Arizona State could still sneak into the BCS title game. Now ranked 6 with a 9-1 record, it is likely they'll pass 11-1 Ohio State if the Sun Devils beat USC and Arizona and finish with the same 11-1 record. Either Kansas or Missouri will add a loss; if Missouri wins, ASU tops Kansas because the Jayhawks would have lost to its only opponent. Regardless who wins the Missouri/Kansas game, ASU passes both if Oklahoma beats them in the Big 12 title game. That would leave ASU at No. 3, waiting for the outcome of LSU/Arkansas and the SEC title game and the outcome of WVU's remaining games, including UConn this week. If either LSU or WVU stumbles, ASU could be the surprise prom queen.

Granted, a lot would have to happen to see ASU slide in, but each of the foregoing games could easily go in its favor. And if this season has taught anything, it is to expect the unexpected.

No..the SEC is not that good this year. But if you haven't noticed - neither is anyone else! LOL!

bgault

You stated:
"And...Ron Zook is for real. I know you UF fans ran him out of town, but Urban Meyer won the NC with Zook's players; this year, in Meyer's third year...three losses with 75% his players...you do the math."

Now that's fuzzy math if I've ever seen it! First, there were quite a few Meyer recruits that played roles in the NC (Tebow, Harvin etc).

Second, Zook left Meyer with a great '06 senior class. But the '07 and '08 classes don't really exist. UF's 2 deep roster this year is 70% Sophs and Freshmen (all Meyer's recruits. The defense is especially young. 8 of 11 starters are Fr or So.

Just a correction to my earlier post. I meant to say that if Missouri beats Kansas, ASU would pass KU because the Jayhawks would have lost to its "only QUALITY opponent."

I doubt the typo will generate as much controversy as the rest of the post.

for Matt - Re: Miles He might want 'home'. It may not make much sense to either of us, but sometimes home is reason enough.

for Matt - I do not share your enthusiasm for Louisville. They have been in a conf where a team of their quality has a chance to shine. Match them against Mich or OSU last year and before, match them against Fla or LSU, OK or Tex, USC and their cohorts of the past few years and I do not see Louisville as being a conf power. Like Boise they have made their reputation on wins, not quality wins. But this is an opinion and I have tried to respond intelligently to your question.

Yes, non-BCS schools have nowhere near the money, exposure or facilities of BCS schools so we should feel sorry for them. There are no BCS schools in basketball, but Gonzaga is clearly not from a BCS football conf. Anyone out there feel sorry for Gonzaga? They have made an effort to schedule the big boys and no one should claim they cannot hold their own. Yes they get the exposure, TV $$$, etc, etc, but guess what? They earned it.

for ladybravo15 - What you say about few confs having a truly dominating, elite team may be true. But that does not mean that the confs are not as good. It could mean more parity. SEC teams used to take Kentucky, Miss St & S. Car lightly. They can't do it anymore. Take Illinois lightly, take Ariz St lightly, and the headaches to follow may not be light. Disagree??

for lktunes - What you say about Meyer winning with Zook's players is obviously true. You say it proves Zook is for real. But when one coach wins with another coaches players and the first coach had trouble winning there is another explanation right?

Stop all the whining and just institute a tournament in college football. Enough already about stats, conferences, and computers! Play ball ...

Charles -

My point about Zook was the same point that many will bring up about John Cooper or Charlie Weis, but for different reasons. College football is based on two parts: recruiting, and the X/O game execution. I'm not denying that Urban Meyer has had a tremendous recruiting with Percy Harvin and Tim Tebow...but Florida's D is SUSPECT now, and they regularly get torched by teams that have no business scoring the kind of points that they do. Zook recruited those defensive players, not Meyer.

John Cooper got run out of town because he stockpiled NFL talent and couldn't win the big game with it. Charlie Weis will be run out of South Bend because he can't teach his players; he can only draw up X's and O's. Charlie won with Ty Willingham's players. Now that he is in his third year, ND was awful.

Now, I'm certainly not implying that Florida is ND; however, the similarities ARE there. ND and Florida don't play great defense. Both head coaches are offensive minded and think outside the box. Both have super high expectations placed on them. And...both are underachieving based on expectations this year. I don't care what Florida fans say. After destroying my Buckeyes like they did last year, they fully expected to be in the throws of the NC hunt - not battling for an also ran bowl game after LSU and Georgia get their games.

Zook is a great recruiter, and it looks like he learned from his lessons if Florida. I wish him the best in the Big Ten, but just not against my Bucks.

And...to answer the question about why Les Miles would leave LSU...duh...you SEC fans have been beating this down the Big Ten fan's throats for months...it usually comes down to UM or OSU for the Big Ten Championship with the SEC teams having a toss up every year. Same outrageous expectations, same head coaching money (presumeably), and an easier road to a BCS/NC game...hmmm...how long would Les Miles REALLY have to think about that?

Oh, and one more thing about Meyer...he hasn't stayed anywhere long enough to see if he can build a long term winner. BGSU, Utah, and now Florida. We'll see in the long run...

I should clarify my comment about Florida's defense, because re-reading the post it's confusing.

Zook recruited the players who were so dominant on last year's NC team.

Meyer's defense, with those freshman and sophomores you're talking about is getting torched.

My point is that Zooks wonderful recruiting left Meyer with no Sr class this year or next.

Florida defense has been getting better as the season has going on. There is a reason why you don't see Fr starting a corner and on the D line. It takes time to develop. Most get to do it in practice for a year or two before they start. If you think UF's defense is going to be the same next year, you're nuts.

I don't see your point. You say that last year's D was great b/c it was Zook's players. Are you saying that Meyer is not bringing in the talent that Zook did?

I don't remember McDonald, Moss, Siler, Everett etc. doing much when they were Freshmen.

You are comparing Zook's Seniors to Meyer's Freshmen. Apples to oranges.

Ummm...unless I'm missing something here, this is Urban Meyer's third year...which means that he should have some juniors on D who could step it up, and certainly some sophomores who have at least one year of experience. (Especially if Zook left him with no senior class like you say...they should have been getting live game action for at least two years once Florida ran up the score on the patsies they play...what's that? Oh, the starters play the whole game so that the score gets run up and the underclassmen get no experience?) Meyer's defensive recruits have not been nearly as dominating (nor as impactful) as his offensive recruits. My point was that Zook recruited on both sides of the ball, and that Meyer (at least initially) looks like he is lacking on the defensive side of the ball. I used the John Cooper analogy because one would assume that with that many talented underclassmen on the team that they would have reloaded and made a significant SEC run this year...but they have not, and have looked very ordinary a lot of the time...which by my estimation is underachieving. They looked outright intimidated when UGA ran their whole team on the field to celebrate the opening touchdown, and didn't look like there was a lot of leadership there to right the ship.

So, you can disagree all you want - I certainly respect your opinion, but, you're not going to convince me that Florida fans aren't disappointed with this year after how last year went. And, if UF is relegated to the second tier of the SEC again next year...you won't be calling me so dumb. Urban Meyer is an offensive genius, but he hasn't had to compete with the biggest of the big boys in a conference as tough as the SEC for an extended period of time. And he doesn't have all his own players there yet to judge him by. If he wins a couple of SEC titles...you're right. If he keeps losing three games a year...well...that's Ron Zook, isn't it?

To Dennis Dixon:

Thanks for everything! I felt horrible that you got injured, but it has been an absolute pleasure watching you play football. Too bad we only get 4 years for college. Being at the Big House and watching the fake Statue of Liberty play was something I will never forget. Rehab well, if you play baseball, I hopefully will see you in Kannapolis!

It looks to me like both OSU and Florida are in rebuilding years. Any OSU fan who contends that this is a great OSU team needs a refresher course in OSU tradition. OSU stands for a tradition that does not permit losing to an unranked team, or am I mistaken about that tradition? These OSU players can tell the old ones that it was a very good unranked team. Would there not be laughter and an urging to set sights a wee bit higher next year? Comments, please?
When there was no BCS bowls and winning the Rose Bowl did not mean a national tiitle then winning the Big Ten was the chief goal. Are you OSU fans going to tell me now that winning the Big Ten is the chief goal every year?

To those who think this college football year has been a mediocre one...I say otherwise. This has been a year that we have seen dynasties (LSU, OSU, OU, USC and UF) get beat by teams who can barely score a touchdown in a game (USC and Stanford). We have also seen teams that pollsters didn't even have on the top 25 come out and shine and now are the #2 team and #3 team.

This year seems to be a year of change and it wants to shout from the rooftops that no one conference is better than the other. I am a Univ. of Texas fan by heart, but when it comes to teams or individuals who have stood out against adversity, I stand up and applaud them everytime and you should too. We have 1 to 2 games left to play in this season, depending on bye weeks or not, and there is a team out there lurking in the waters below, ready to swim to the surface to show their spirit and beat one of these top 10 teams...hooray for year where no ONE team is great and where each team controls its own destiny.

Charles,

Under the old regime, this year absolutey has been a success for OSU. A Rose Bowl, a victory over UM, and an outright Big Ten title. What's not to be proud of. Keep trying to beat up the Bucks by saying that "old teams wouldn't lost to an unranked team" --- it's kind of comical in a way since we all know how accurate the polls are. Point is that the Buckeyes are a young team with little experience, and they came together in a meaningful way to win a league championship and a return to the Rose Bowl (and with some help a return to the NC game again). So tell me where the failure lies?

for bgault - Remember Bear Bryant? Didn't he say that no one came into their house and took a victory away? He said Bama owns the second half. He did not say it was okay for a ranked team to own the second half and he certainly didn't say it was okay for an unranked team to dominate Bama as long as it was a very good unranked team. From what I am told no Bama player wanted to face the wrath of Bryant any more than one of Patton's soldiers wanted to be caught with the least little gig. Can you imagine the explosion that would have occurred had Bama been upset by an unranked team and a player said, 'Hey coach we won the SEC, that's what counts"? Speak truthfully bgault. That attitude preceeds greatness.
You say this has been a great season for OSU. I guess as an SEC fan I am going to wish you many more great seasons, just like this one. Now write back and thank me for my heartfelt sentiments.
Hawaii people slap themselves on the back and tell each other how great they are. If they ever want to be great they will write the athletic dept and say that never again should they be embarrassed by such a pathetic schedule. Where is the motivation for Hawaii to improve if they have already achieved greatness?
P.S. What's your best guess? Do you think an OSU player after the Illinois game said to Tressel, don't worry, beat Mich and we're in the Roses. Take a wild guess if you are unsure.

Sgt. Pepper... Check your stats. "There isn't another top 20 team that wouldn't be undefeated against KU's schedule." Um, didn't OU play Colorado... they're not undefeated. Didn't Texas play K-State... they're not undefeated. Didn't a Texas Tech team that just put it to OU blow a huge lead to a Okie State team that KU dismantled? Look, I understand why KU isn't getting any respect, we're new. Hell, I didn't give Texas A&M respect as a basketball school last year, and I probably should have. The truth will be laid out on the field over the next few weeks. We are having an amazing season, and no matter what you say, going undefeated in the Big 12 is every bit as hard as the SEC (hold your crying, I've heard it.) Fortunately, for everyone's complaining, I haven't heard anyone say they don't deserve it if they make it past the next few weeks. ROCK CHALK!

David - Going through the Big 12 undefeated is exceptionally difficult, when one has to play Texas and OK to do it. When a team has not played the four Big 12 teams with the best records in the conf then going through the Big 12 undefeated becomes a mite easier, right? Will you agree that going through the SEC undefeated when you don't play LSU, GA, Fla and Aub is not so great a chore? Name any conf, eliminate their four teams with the best records, then yell from the roof top how great you are. Kind of silly, huh? Add to that the weakest of powderpuff ooc schedules and you will understand why so many are laughing.

Bgault - Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I think saying that Meyer does not recruit defense well in not based in fact.

The last two classes are loaded in Defensive talent:

2006 (two 5* and six 4*)
Brandon Spikes, AJ Jones, Wondy Pierre-Louis, Markihe Anderson. All starters or get lots of PT.
2007
Major Wright, Joe Haden (Starters),Michael Pouncy, Torrey Davis, Justin Trattou, Carlos Dunlap, John Brown,Jerimy Finch, Brandon Hicks

That is six 5* Defensive players in 2007.

Imagine how good we will be when the Defense catches up to the offense!

Throughout history boxers in a specific division have been ranked. When #1 fought #2 it is not uncommon for even the winner to end up hospitalized or seriously hurt. If the winner of #1 vs #2 was hurt badly and had to play #5 in one week, as LSU had to play Kentucky after Fla beat them up, then we might not be so surprised if #5 won.
In Kansas we have a team who has not played #'s 1 - 4 who wants to claim since they beat each other up and occasionally lost to #6, #7 or #8 that this proves that Kansas is really #1. This is delusional.

>>>OSU stands for a tradition that does not permit losing to an unranked team, or am I mistaken about that tradition?

Charles-I hate to rain on your parade but the Big 10 season is over and Illinois is very much a ranked team. It is WVU and LSU who have lost to unranked teams.

for gatorchomp - tell Tressel the loss isn't so bad since Illinois moved to a Top 25 ranking. My guess is that he will say you are an idiot. What do you think he would say?

Re: Michigan and Les Miles,

Is UM a better job than LSU? I am not sure. I could make an argument that winning the Big 10 is easier than winning the SEC. I could also counter than the strength of LSU is its speed and unless Miles can convince the speedsters to come to Ann Arbor, he will be coaching teams that are still slow compared to the SEC and Pac 10 teams (and teams from Texas).

I feel for Miles. This will be distraction the likes of which he has never seen. Someone on TV mentioned the hurricanes, he is going to be longing for those distractions. They were easy to handle compared to every press conference being led off with a question about UM.

I want someone to post the first time stamp on the "A friend who is a realtor knows that Miles' wife was housing hunting in Ann Arbor" rumor.

To everyone throwing love at Kansas. I think that they are really good this year but still not tested. You can slice it any way you want, but if they were that good, they would be a unanimous #1. They came from nowhere and are a great story but I do believe their time will be up in the next two weeks. If they do make it, they deserve it and I hope they get to play my tigers for the title. I am not basing on Kansas. I just want to watch their next two games to see if they are the real deal. So, KU fans, please dont take it as an insult. I dont mean anything bad by it.

On another note, to all who critisize the SEC ooc schedule. We have to play in 1 extra game to win our conference. Everyone schedules at least one descent ooc game. We had VT this year after a couple of years of them trying to weasel out. FLA has FLA ST. TENN had CAL. You get the picture. What about OHIO STATES first 4 games. How about USCs collosal matchup with Idaho. Or wait, Michigan takes, oh no, App. ST. Lsu played them last year. It was close......... 59-0. Stop playing the ooc schedule card, because you are seriously grasping now . It wont give your team an extra win.

>>for gatorchomp - tell Tressel the loss isn't so bad since Illinois moved to a Top 25 ranking. My guess is that he will say you are an idiot. What do you think he would say?

Chuck-He would definitely say that you are the idiot by dwelling on rankings that a two or more weeks obsolete. What does a pre- or mid-season ranking mean at the endof the season? Sure it was a devastating loss and I am not pretending that it wasn't. However, it is a loss to a ranked team unlike LSU's and WVU's losses.

To the guy that said gator fans were disappointed with this year....FALSE!!! We're projected to do big things the next two years my dear...I'm happy with the way this year went. Could have went without the home loss to Auburn, but overall my team has not disappointed me in the least. Speak for yourself.

For all the UGA fans that think Florida will not be selected to a BCS game over your team, think again.

If Tennessee looses to UK: Which I think they will.

UGA looses to LSU in the SEC championship game: Not a sure thing if they meet.

The Gators beat FSU

Florida will be selected to a BCS game over UGA.

As Stewart pointed out in one of his early mailbags, UGA fans will find their percieved respect on the national level sorely lacking.
With that said, I do believe that UGA has a great shot at beating LSU.

For gatorchomp - No Tressel would agree with me. He is a winner and would have no use for an attitude like yours. Demanding the kind of excellence that his team can attain and just a bit more is how he got to be one of the best. You are satisfied with the loss to a team unranked at the time they played and we should not have to debate the fact that Tressel would not be. Remember the first time Vince Lombardi got in a title game, and his team was stopped one yard short of a winning touchdown. He did not say how good his team did. Can you recall or are the things that set the Bryants and Lombardis apart from people with your attitude conveniently easy to forget? He said he never again wanted to be stopped one yard short. From what the Packers said afterwards they did not doubt his sincerity nor did they ever desire to be in his presence in a similar situation in the future. Being okay with getting stopped one yard short, or being okay with losing to an unranked team as long as they are later ranked, is why you would be a loser, and why Tressel and Lombardi carry the label of winners. Give it up. You lose before the contest even begins.

David.

Ok, out of 20 teams you found 2 legitimate examples. I am completely humbled.

So I will put it this way. Let's take, say, Auburn. A middle of the road team this year in the SEC. According to SI, the strongest team Kansas has played this year is Central Michigan. What do you suppose the line would be in an Auburn - Central Michigan matchup?

Kansas will have a chance to prove themselves in the next couple of weeks, I am just saying it is absurd to have them ranked #2 at this point. I will NEVER reward someone for not playing anyone.

This is one of the reasons I developed a strong dislike for Alabama over the years. For years their non-conf sked was filled with the La Techs of the world. But even they this year scheduled Florida State and the University of Louisiana Monroe (snicker snicker).

for Sgt Pepper - Well said. No need to punish teams that play weaklings. Just no reason to reward them this late in the season when they have done nothing to deserve a reward. Kansas has barely earned Top 25 status, if that.

I really think some of you OSU fans are clueless as to the make up of a great coach. One of you said the victory over Mich St was great because MSU was dominated statistically. Had Gatorchomp run up to Tressel in the final minutes of that game and informed Tressel that OSU was doing great since MSU was being dominated statistically he would not have spent the rest of the day chomping gators. Tressel's shoe would have been in his mouth and not as the result of a direct kick in the teeth.

Charles,

Very few times in a blog like this should the word "idiot" be used...but in your case, it's the appropriate one. You are reaching at best now, and attempting to instigate some sort of fight from the OSU faithful over a perceived "lost" season. Your "innocent" question began with curiosity about whether this season would be considered a success, and my answer was in the affirmative. If you remember, Ohio State wasn't even sniffing the top five this year, and were picked third in their own conference by the experts (behind UM and Wisconsin). So, I'm confused how being #1 in the country for part of the year, a Rose Bowl berth, beating UM, and a small chance that they will STILL play for the national championship is considered a failure. Are expectations high in Columbus? Absolutely. Does Jim Tressel want to win every game that the Buckeyes play? Absolutely again. But, to consider this season a failure when there's still a lot of football left to play is idiotic. I never said that the Buckeyes didn't want to win the game, or that they weren't angry, disappointed, and somewhat embarrassed by losing to the Illini. But that still doesn't change the fact that they are Big Ten champions (a preseason goal), going to the Rose Bowl (there's those pesky preseason goals again), beat UM (seeing a trend here Cap'n?), and could still be playing for the NC in a "down" year by all standards. So, for my money...go spew your ignorance and animosity toward an Oklahoma fan or Oregon fan or God forbid, an Alabama fan for a "lost" season.

And, we are not clueless as to what makes a great coach. Tressel is a great coach. Numerous 1-AA championships, one 1-A championship, 5 BCS bowl games, with 4 victories, and a 6-1 record against TTUN. One bad game does NOT make him a bad coach. I'll take him every day of the week over anyone in the country, and his record speaks for itself. If you're going to try to insult Ohio State's coach...your window closed when they fired John Cooper, sorry.

LJ -

All I'm saying is that his defense is underperforming compared to the offense. He recruits all these 4 and 5* athletes...and is getting slightly above average results from such a strong class. James Laurinitis contributed almost immediately in a meaningful way, and I just haven't seen that from a Urban Meyer recruit on the defensive side.

And...I don't care what the Florida fan (singular) says...if expectations are so high in Columbus that Charles can attempt to start a childish fight, I have a hard time believing that expectations were not equally as high for the REIGNING NATIONAL CHAMPIONS...or does Urban Meyer get a Phillip Fulmer style pass now since he won one NC? (Ooops...did I just go there?)

For bgault - I never started a post with the innocent question as to whether OSU has had a successful season. My innocent question was whether this was a rebuilding year for OSU. You say I described the OSU season as a failure. I will acknowledge my idiocy if you can find those comments. And if you can't then maybe you need to look for idiots elsewhere ... your bathroom mirror comes to mind. When you have to fabricate statements to find fault with me most people would say you have a problem. It would be nice to find one accurate statement about my comments in your posts.
Just how do you define a great season for OSU? I define it as being universally recognized from week to week as one of the top programs in the country and a worthy candidate for the NC game. OSU has never been recognized this season as one of the best teams in the country. When it achieved #1 the word was that it got it by default. From week to week as #1 OSU was openly said not to be the best by many. Recall any comments like that from last year?
You are the one stretching to forget the embarrassment of last January. Had you known OSU would lose to a team unranked when they played you probably would have called it a rebuilding year too.
Perhaps Tressel will step forward and describe this as a great year for OSU. If he does I think he will put it in the context of having so many stars to replace (i.e. rebuilding), but maybe I am wrong. No one has responded to my statements that Tressel would not be mollified with the loss just because Illinois became ranked. I said if Gatorchomp went up to Tressel and said the loss to Illinois wasn't so bad since Illinois became ranked later that Tressel would tag him as an idiot. No one disagreed with me on that.
I think Tressel would not be okay with any loss or any close call to a team like MSU.
I compared Tressel to Lombardi. When stopped one yard loss short of winning the championship Lombardi did not say it was a great season even though it was the first time Green Bay made the title game in a long time. He did not think it was great that they came so close to winning. He made it known he never wanted another season like that one again. But you think Tressel would be happy that this season was so great. I do not.
I find lots of general statements in your posts and the posts of others, but you don't dispute my specific reasons for the conclusions. You credit me with comments I did not make. You don't like my conclusions so you say I am an idiot.

bgault -

I'd say most defenses have underperformed compared to UF's Offense this year!

Did James Laurinitis have 7 other Fr and So's surrounding him when he was a freshman?

My point is simply that your conclusions on Meyer and defense are premature.

As far as expectations, I was expecting a 2 loss season this year. The Auburn and UGA losses still bother me. We were expecting to play for the SEC Championship game. That being said, a win over F$U and a bowl win and I am happy with the season overall. Next fall we will be pre season top 5. I think the gator nation is very happy with the state of the program.

Charles -

Charles said...
It looks to me like both OSU and Florida are in rebuilding years... Are you OSU fans going to tell me now that winning the Big Ten is the chief goal every year?

6:37 PM

Charles said...
for bgault - Can you imagine the explosion that would have occurred had Bama been upset by an unranked team and a player said, 'Hey coach we won the SEC, that's what counts"? Speak truthfully bgault. You say this has been a great season for OSU. I guess as an SEC fan I am going to wish you many more great seasons, just like this one. Now write back and thank me for my heartfelt sentiments...P.S. What's your best guess? Do you think an OSU player after the Illinois game said to Tressel, don't worry, beat Mich and we're in the Roses. Take a wild guess if you are unsure.

7:07 PM

Charles said...
You are satisfied with the loss to a team unranked at the time they played and we should not have to debate the fact that Tressel would not be.

9:00 PM

Charles said...
I really think some of you OSU fans are clueless as to the make up of a great coach. Had Gatorchomp run up to Tressel in the final minutes of that game and informed Tressel that OSU was doing great since MSU was being dominated statistically he would not have spent the rest of the day chomping gators...Tressel's shoe would have been in his mouth and not as the result of a direct kick in the teeth.

9:26 PM

AS AN AGGREGATE (CAPS SO YOU KNOW MY TYPE VS. YOUR QUOTE), YOUR COMMENTS ARE MEANT TO IMPLY SOMEHOW THAT OHIO STATE HAS FAILED, AND THAT JIM TRESSEL SHOULD NOT BE SATISFIED WITH THE SEASON AT HAND. YOU BEGAN WITH THE QUESTION OF WHETHER WINNING THE BIG TEN IS THE CHIEF CONCERN EVERY YEAR, AND I WOULD SAY YES (BEHIND BEATING MICHIGAN). IF YOU KNEW COACH TRESSEL, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT HE OBVIOUSLY CARES ABOUT WINNING, BUT HE CARES MORE FOR INTEGRITY, HONESTY, AND SELF IMPROVEMENT THROUGH DISCIPLINE. THE WINNING FOLLOWS THE OTHER THINGS. YOU RAMBLE ON ABOUT BEAR BRYANT AND GENERAL PATTON AS THOUGH TRESSEL SHOULD JUST REVOKE THE SCHOLARSHIPS OF ALL HIS PLAYERS FOR A LOSS TO ILLINOIS; AND YET NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT THE BUCKEYES SHOULD BE SATISFIED WITH THE LOSS. I SAID THAT THEY SHOULD BE SATISFIED WITH THE BODY OF WORK THAT THEY HAVE DONE SO FAR BASED ON HISTORICAL EXPECTATIONS.

YOU ARE TRYING TO SOMEHOW GET THE BUCKEYE FAITHFUL TO SAY THAT THEY ARE DISAPPOINTED WITH THE SEASON BECAUSE OF A LOSS TO A VERY GOOD TEAM, AND YOU'RE ALL RILED UP THAT WE WON'T SAY THAT THE SEASON IS A DISAPPOINTMENT.

AND I STAND BY MY COMMENTS THAT FOR THIS PARTICULAR THREAD YOU ARE BEING AN IDIOT. I'M SURE THAT YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT IN GENERAL, BUT FOR THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC YOU ARE BEATING A HORSE THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT. THE BUCKEYE FAITHFUL ARE HAPPY, AND THE UF FAITHFUL HAVE INFORMED ME THAT THEY ARE HAPPY...SO FIND SOMEONE ELSE TO BEAT UP ON ABOUT FAILED EXPECTATIONS...LIKE MAYBE ALABAMA? OR HOW ABOUT USC? OR BETTER YET OKLAHOMA. GET OFF THE BUCKS.

BASED ON PROJECTIONS AND EXPECTATIONS AFTER LOSING SO MANY PLAYERS (REBUILDING AS YOU PUT IT), THIS SEASON HAS EXCEEDED EXPECTATIONS IF ANYTHING, DUE TO THE ADVANCED LEARNING CURVE THE PLAYERS HAVE EXPERIENCED.

>>>>You are satisfied with the loss to a team unranked at the time they played and we should not have to debate the fact that Tressel would not be.

First Charles I do not believe any really considers you an idiot so why don't we agree to disagree.

Re: OSU/Illinois

I do not believe that they are satisfied with the loss to Illinois but in retrospect Illinois has turned out to be a very good team-perhaps worthy of a BCS bid. You cannot say the same for the teams who beat WVU and LSU. Plus, what good would it do OSU fans to dwell on the loss to Illinois? The Rose Bowl is an old Big 10 tradition and I'm relatively certain a very satisfying accomplishment for fans of any Big 10 school. Traditions die hard in the Rust Belt.

I work with four OSU alums and the only thing that seems to matter to them is beating Michigan. For example, last year they were keyed up about the Michigan game for the better part of a month and didn't even watch the Glendale Massacre. They could have cared less about the latter or Troy Smith's Heisman.

Also consider the other premier programs who aren't going to Nawlins. We would all like to have the Auburn game back as I'm sure OU would like to have the Colorado game back and LSU/KY. If winning a NC is the only thing that defines a team's season we'd see a lot of the early losers fold the tent. I didn't see any of them do that so they were evidently playing for something else.

bgault - OSU may have exceeded expectations in losing only once, but who did you expect to beat you? Not Wash or any ooc foe. Not Purdue, or MSU or Ill, right? Perhaps Mich was marked as a challenge but when Mich started with 2 losses did you scratch them as a possible loss. What about Wisc when they struggled with weak teams ooc? My guess is that shortly after the season started and you assessed the Big Ten then Pn St became the real threat, not Ill, which lost to Missou. Again you say you exceeded expectations, but it looks to me that any additional losses and you would be below expectations. You may respond that starting the season you feared worse, but I suspect those fears quickly vanished in the reality of the facts regarding the strengths of OSU and its opponents.
A team has a rebuilding year when numerous key players move on. The myth is that teams reload, but replacing a Ginn with a rookie of high potential is not the same. A team can have a successful rebuilding year or an unsuccessful one.
I honestly do not know with OSU which is why I raised my innocent question. You faced weaker than expected competition. Was that a major factor in the success or was it that your rookies developed quicker than expected? Maybe rookies did not develop as quickly as you hoped but the veterans still carried the team. Perhaps your opinion is that not enough stars were replaced to call this a rebuilding year. I don't know.
I thought my questions were honest ones perhaps deserving of intelligent responses. I was derided for raising the questions about rebuilding, and later for wondering if this team really was on a level with the great teams of the past. When that happened I made jokes about the responses I received and poked fun at the bloggers.
I thought this was honestly a sub par year for OSU which is highly complimentary of the program since you went 11 - 1. I did not see OSU laying waste to opponents with the same consistency of last year (did you?), and I certainly did not hear experts praising them as they did last year (did you?).
You and others assumed I was striking out at OSU but my questions and conclusions were honest. I think my observations that OSU did not perform as well as last year during the regular season had some merit. Last year could not be considered a stellar year for OSU because of how it ended. I think OSU has to win the NC to rank this year as better, especially since they lost to Illinois. But where in all of this do you see a hint that I think OSU has failed? You and the others need to get a grip.

for gatorchomp - I was comparing this OSU team to OSU teams of the past and wondering if it met the level for gretness that OSU has established. What does LSU losing to Kentucky have to do with that? In another post I actually stated I would choose OSU over WV for the NC so how can you bring WV into the conversation.
I agreed that Illinois was a very good unranked team when they played. You can say Stanford was worse when they beat USC, but that has no bearing on whether the great OSU teams of the past would have been beaten by Illinois.
I see nothing in my observations and questions to suggest I am putting OSU down. In fact when I say an 11 - 1 team might not have lived up to the greatness of past teams and offer some intelligent observations to support it that would seem about the highest compliment I could offer. I listed Tressel with Lombardi & Bryant, and suggested he might not support some of the comments you made because of his greatness as a coach and you see Tressel or OSU being bashed here. I honestly could not believe some of the responses I was getting. I see a lot of people bashing OSU and the Big Ten, and much of it regarding OSU is nonsense. But I don't see where my comments in this blog place me in that category.

Charles,

As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on this years' OSU team. If they win the Rose Bowl, particularly against a strong Pac-10 team, I do not believe that there is any way, shape, or form that we could not consider their season a failure or beneath expectations. Tonight I saw an interview with Tressel on the Big 10 Network and he sounded perfectly happy with OSU's position. He intimated that this years' team was a year away from a championship run.

Although I delighted in our trashing of them last January, as far as I am concerned that is history and their performance in that game should have no bearing on their chances for another shot this year. Granted, they overlooked us last year but I do not believe that Tressel would allow that to happen again. I believe that they should be ranked below LSU (based on SOS) and Kansas (undefeated) but I have a real problem with them being ranked below WVU with the latter's cupcake schedule, total lack of defense, and combined with a loss to an unranked team.

I only have three things to say
1) Tim Tebow has had an amazing, record setting season, and is the clear front runner for the heisman

2) The Florida defense is young, but very very talented, you can not rush a players development. In the off season these players will get stronger, and our corners coverage and safety's ball hawking skills will increase, and that once mediocre defense will remind you a lot of the 2006 national championship team

3) No Florida fan is disappointed by the way this season has played out....we have the best quarterback in the nation, the most dynamic offense in the SEC, and a national championship calibur coach.....last years national championship was a year of fate and a little bit of a shock, this year was known to be a rebuilding year, and in 2008 and 2009 the gators will be untouchable!!

As a Florida alumnus, I am a huge fan of both the Gators AND Ron Zook. My dream bowl game would be Florida v. Illinois somewhere on Jan. 1. I would never be able to decide who to root for. Probably whoever had the ball at any given moment. (This is, of course, totally unfair to the defensive units, but see my comment on the Heisman Trophy that follows.)

Speaking of the Heisman, isn't it about time that we stop calling it an award for the best college footbal player and start calling it what it really is, an award for the best college quarterback, running back and/or receiver? When was the last time an offensive lineman or a defensive player won the award? Even if the voters were not enamored with flashy yardage gains and touchdowns, I suggest that it is impossible to fairly compare ball carriers and receivers to blockers and tacklers. Their skill sets are far too different. It's like comparing apples to bulldozers.

for Gatorchomp - I cannot disagree with much of what you say. In fact one of your comments supports most of what I have been saying. Tressel hinted that OSU would make an NC run next year. Being happy with this year's position and calling this year's team equal to the great ones of the past are two different things.
If you had been on the show you could have pointed out that OSU in fact made an NC run this year and are still very much in the picture. I think Tressel means that it did not do it with the kind of authority of the past, i.e., this year's team was not as dominant as OSU has been in the past.
In a major sense the jury is not out on this year's club. They are at least in the Rose Bowl and very successful in that respect. To me they are the best of the Big Ten. But a different jury is still out. If they get beaten up by USC like Mich last year, or suffer a spell of deja vu with LSU in the NC this will go down as a bad year in respect to tradition. More than that OSU and Big Ten people will get another year of hearing how their weak schedules make the conf overrated. I think only LSU, USC on track, and Fla if indeed their defense is coming together, are the only three teams in the country which have the talent to create another nightmare for OSU.
But again my original post concerned how much of a rebuilding year this was for OSU and in that context how this year's team ranked with OSU teams of the past. We are only now in a position to start answering those questions. It's made more difficult because OSU has not faced the same level of competition it has in the past. How good are they? How good is Brennan at Hawaii? How can we ever know? They have not faced upper level competition and how can you measure yourself against weaklings?

for tebow4heisman - This is one Fla fan, class of 1969, who is a bit disappointed in this year's team. True I started the season with the bad feeling that 3 or 4 losses were in my future. But the massacre of Tenn and the evidence provided at the LSU game that Fla might have been the best team on the field, and suddenly my hopes were that Fla would run the tables and confirm my suspicions about LSU in the title game. What was your thinking at that point?
I fully expected Fla to bury Aub and after that more losses did not surprise me. My thoughts turned to the recent rides in football and basketball that no other team had provided its fans, but I can't say I was not disappointed just a bit given the early evidence that the ride might continue for just a bit more. How about you?

Looking over the posts the argument that OSU is great this year is based almost solely upon the 11 - 1 season. I do see the post that OSU beat Mich, a primary goal every year. I understand the concept that records do not matter in a rivalry game as I have been involved in FSU/Fla games for over 40 years. But this year, unlike last, a loss to Mich would have been a black eye and much of the free world would have derided OSU for even thinking it belonged in the NC game. A close loss to Mich last year would have simply resulted in comments that Mich was the better team, and much of the free world would have been arguing that OSU still belonged in the NC game, right? Not this year.
But your argument as to the OSU greatness this year is based upon the 11 - 1 record almost entirely. When making this argument OSU is placing itself on the same level as Boise St which also has a single loss. And more significantly, OSU people are placing themselves behind Kansas and Hawaii. This is the final end of a 'we're great because we are 11 - 1' argument. And with the ultimate admission to being a notch below Hawaii which must follow I get a good laugh.
Standing alone, an 11 - 1 means almost nothing to me. Arguments of greatness must extend not only to the level of competition, but the degree to which that competition was dominated. Argue with that if you choose, but the heart of greatness or being a champion cannot be measured by wins and losses alone. I realize that Hawaii, Kansas & Boise St fans will argue otherwise, or create a laugh as June Jones did when he said that a 2-point victory over Nevada without Brennan was proof Hawaii was loaded with stars.
The argument that Illinois was really a Top 25 team at the time of the OSU defeat is not without merit. But I think my belief that great OSU teams of the past would not have lost to Ill this year has merit also. Laugh at me if you choose when I say great OSU of the past would have been better this year than this team, but you are really laughing at yourselves. Was the loss to Ill a good loss? My thoughts were that with a coach like Tressel there is no such things as a good loss. On TV he will say nothing to inflame or degrade Ill, but this does not mean he agrees that the loss was good. I suspect he views getting beat by a very good unranked team with the same disgust that Lombardi viewed being stopped one yard shy of the title.
When I read that the loss to Illinois does not mean this OSU team is not as great as OSU teams of the past I disagree, but at least I know my comments are being understood. When I read that I have called this year's team a failure or that LSU was beaten by Kentucky I doubt my post was carefully read. Had OSU held a tradition of producing seasons with one or two wins, then admittedly saying this year's team was not as great as the past equated to calling this year's team a failure. But I was referring to OSU tradition when I said this team didn't quite have it. Few if any programs have a wider gap between a traditional season and being a failure. Saying this Kansas team is not as good as the best Kansas teams of the past could be viewed as an insulting statement to this club. But when your great teams of the past represent the best that have stepped on the field I see no grounds for thinking you have been insulted. But call em an idiot for saying it if you choose.

Charles -

57-41-6. Ask any true Ohio State fan, and they will know what this represents. 6-1. Show them this number, and they will more than likey break into the biggest sh!^ grin you've seen in quite some time.

I understand what you're trying to do by pumping up the past OSU teams and putting them on some sort of unreachable pedestal, and as an OSU fan, I'm flattered to a degree. But, I still retain my opinion that the undertones of your overall comments are that true champions are not satisfied with losing to an unranked team (which no Ohio State fan has said, to the best of my knowledge), and therefore this year's edition of the Buckeyes has somehow failed when compared to the past.

Ask any Ohio State fan their priorities, and they will be:

1. Beat Michigan, at any cost (we could go 1-11 as long as the one win was against them)

2. Win the Big Ten outright

3. Go to the Rose Bowl

4. Worry about national rankings

You asked your question and received an answer from two sources, and rather than taking the answer - you are now debating the merits of the answer to prove your point. That to me makes no sense. Why didn't you just answer your own question if you were seeking a specific answer? You are eloquent in your posting, so it's obvious that you are an educated person, but I repeat that beating a horse nobody cares about is silly.

Polls are subjective. Ohio State has had perfect seasons before and NOT won the national championship (as have other teams of course). So, I still don't see your point about beating up the Buckeyes for losing to a damn good Illini team. The only reason that they weren't ranked was perceived weakness in the Big Ten. Florida has been consistently ranked with three losses, and with all due respect to Florida fans, I'll take Illinois at this specific point. I know Tebow's a beast, but Illinois is no slouch. Anyway, I digress...

If you are going to harp on a team about expectations, maybe you should be harping on LSU for losing focus so consistently throughout the season, and by winning games much more closely than the talent level would indicate they should be. You have indicated that you are an SEC fan, and I respect that...but try beating up on some deserving SEC teams before you try deriding the Buckeyes.

You sarcastically posted that you hoped the Buckeyes had many more "successful" seasons like this one, and that quite honestly, is where the bulk of my hostility lies for this particular thread. You indicate that you are asking honest questions, but then resort to unnecessary pot shots like that for no explicable reason. So, I'm done responding to you after this post - have a great day. Wish your team best of luck, and I for one, am a very proud Buckeye fan. Those kids have done a great job.

bgault - Again you have not carefully read my posts. I never said that I wished OSU many more successful seasons like this one. I actually stated that I thought next year's results would support my claim that this year was an off year in some ways. In the claims of OSU fans that this is a great team and great season I suggested that maybe I should offer those sentiments, knowing that no OSU fan would settle for this year's results as a norm.
I still do not see how suggesting that this year's OSU team fell short of the great teams of the past is harping on them. I said this in response to post suggesting that this was a great season for OSU. I think Tressel would say that given the loss of so many great players that OSU has done very well. Maybe I am wrong and he would say that this team deserves a spot alongside the great teams of the past.
Again you have not responded to my previous questions of you that would help me understand your claims. You said OSU had exceeded your expectations and I stepped through their schedule to ask how. It is true that Mich might have been projected to win the Big Ten this year, and that you agreed. In that sense OSU might have surpassed expectations. But here is another direct question for you. Can you think of a single game this year when the experts did not favor OSU? I can think of none. If I am correct then in a real sense OSU fell short of expectations. Experts projected they would win every game and they did not.
Given what we know now I think OSU should have been expected to lose no more than one game. You never responded to my assertion that had they lost two games this year they would have fallen short of reasonable expectations. If losing two is falling short then losing one cannot be exceeding. They are better than expected, and the Big Ten was weaker (at least Mich). Praise Illinois all you want but I only see Pn St and Wisc being able to stand with OSU and only at their best.
You say you are done responding to my posts. I see no real evidence that you have responded to any of them. Fabricating my statements and calling me an idiot do not constitute responses, intelligent or otherwise.

for Charles - as a Florida fan I was more disappointed in the loss to Auburn, because it was the first home loss in over two years, than to LSU. I thought the LSU game was a great game, and aside from 4 fourth down conversions and an ill-advised fumble, the Gators should have won that one. However, when you have a defense on the field that consistently gives up 20 or more points, whether it be to tennessee in a huge win, auburn in a loss, or even FAU, who they let pass for almost 300 yards, you are not gonna win every game. It is a huge credit to our offense to win as many games as we have, when they know the defense is going to consistently give up points. Did I wish our defense was really good and we won another national championship? Of course!! But, I did not expect it this season! However if next season this Gator defense does not look like a brand new team, and we have more than one loss, or at least are not holding an SEC title, then I will be very disappointed. As a Gator fan that attended the school when we won 2 titles in basketball and one in football back to back to back I always expect too much out of our teams, cause I would like to see that happen every year, and I am sure as alum you feel the same way. I am just trying to be realistic this season, and last year when the season started, and I knew that 19 seniors would graduate and we had 21 new freshmen coming in, it looked like 2007 would have to be a rebuilding year. College football teams have to have these years, it is ok! Next year I expect great things from Florida football!

for Tebow4Heisman - It is refreshing to read a response to one of my posts and not see the word idiot used 2 or 3 times, or have my mental stability questioned. All I said was that this OSU team might not be on the same level as great OSU teams of the past. If you sit Bonds and Aaron at a table and suggest to them that they might not be as great as the sports greatest I think you would see two very different responses. I suspect we'd use the word class to describe the differences. With the OSU people I think I got the Bonds response.
I am now seeing expert support for a post I have been making which has resulted in more than a few comments about my sanity. It is something that should interest you. I feel that if LSU goes to the NC the Sugar is more likely to take Fla than GA or Tenn. People in the know are suddenly realizing that the Sugar would have a choice and might not take the SEC team with the best record. Of course if Fla does go it will be a no win situation for them since they will face Hawaii or Boise.
OSU is the one under the gun in my opinion. The only way they come out vindicated is with a big victory over USC or LSU. I remember last year after selection Sunday I was feeling a bit of nervousness. Good friends everywhere were calling to see how I'd feel after Fla got stomped on. When Stew wrote his column about the impending massacre I wrote to him saying that he was so sure perhaps he should offer to resign if wrong. I did not predict a Fla victory, big or otherwise, but simply stated that their rigorous schedule and the easy one of OSU had distorted the abilities of the two teams. I'll bet OSU people will have a level of nervousness so high that they won't hold food down before the game. Should OSU win I will salute them. But I am dismayed that OSU keeps using the 51 day thing as an excuse for the loss. The PAC Ten plays two more games so here we go again. A team the stature of OSU should not enter a big game with a ready made excuse if they lose. That's a bit shameful in my opinion. But I am an idiot, don't you know?

Texbuck decided to bust out the following:
Let's see if I understand.........
LSU has one loss to 7-4 Kentucky.
OSU has one loss to 9-3 Illinois.
Illinois losses came to Missouri 8-1, Iowa 6-6 and Michigan 8-4 a combined .667.
Kentucky's losses came to S Carolina 6-5, Florida 8-3, Miss St., 6-5 and Georgia 9-2, a combined .659.
Arguably, OSU should be ranked above LSU.

Let's look at LSU and Ohio State a little more directly, rather than indirectly looking through their opponents' wins/losses.

LSU vs likely bowl teams:
MissSt, demolished 45-0
VaTech, hammered 48-7
SCar, beat 'em 28-16
UF, beat 'em 28-24
Auburn, beat 'em 30-24
'Bama, beat 'em 41-34
yet to play Arkansas + SEC title game

Ohio St vs likely bowl teams:
Purdue, beat 'em 23-7
MichSt (fringe team, but likely in), 24-17
Penn State, pretty good win 37-17
Wisconsin, closer than the score indicated (yes, I watched it, at home, in Columbus...) 38-17
Michigan, beat 'em (as usual) 14-3

LSU v likely bowl teams: 6-1 (so far), with 2 skin-flaying butt-whuppin's
OSU v likely bowl teams: 5-1, with 2 moderately-big scores (PennSt/Wisc) but one of those deceptive, since Wisc was in the game 'til about 7 minutes left

Assuming LSU wins out, that's 8-1 against bowl teams, with wins over 5 (or 6) teams ranked when the game was played.
Assuming Ohio St wins out (oops, already did...), they'll still be 5-1 with wins over 4 teams that were ranked when they played.
And at the time of their losses, Kentucky was ranked, Illinois wasn't.

You can twist this however you want, but be prepared for someone to turn it around on you... Ohio State's loss might look a little better than LSU's, but the Tigers have far and away much better wins than Ohio State. Ohio State played Washington and the Ohio JV league (AKA the MAC). LSU played LaTech b/c the legislature made them, Tulane out of tradition, and MTSU in the obligatory 'kill the weak team' game*. But they also played VT, and right now, there aren't many teams with an out-of-conference win of that quality.

*At least LSU played a I-A team for their 'sacrifice' game; OSU played I-AA YSU...

brant - you are overlooking two major details in your analysis. First, OSU played Kent St, Youngstown and Akron to help raise money for state schools. Charity work has to be given more weight than actual results on the field against stronger competition. Secondly, schedules are made up ten years in advance. Akron & Youngstown, and Kent St were all expected to challenge OSU for state supremacy at this point. OSU should not be blamed because of bad luck for those schools.
Now that you have the facts there is no school with a record that makes it deserving of a shot at OSU in the NC. It's like last year with Fla. OSU should not be insulted two years in a row with inferior competition.
Keep in mind the 51 day lay off. It is grossly unfair for OSU to be matched against any school that did not have a similar 51 day lay off.

Akron & Youngstown, and Kent St were all expected to challenge OSU for state supremacy at this point.

Did you really keep a straight face when you typed this?! Akron and Kent St challenging OSU for state 'supremacy' at any point?! If you'd tried to say 'Cincinnati' you'd've gotten laughed at, but they are a Big East team with a bit of a national profile, but MAC schools? Challenging OhioSt? On what planet?

LSU played LaTech & Tulane, but didn't schedule any of the UL-SunBelt schools, and -zero- I-AA schools. Ohio St scheduled the locals because it's a guaranteed payday, and they can keep all the money in the state, but saying they 'expected to challenge OSU for state supremacy' and ANY point is down the road to 'ridiculous', turned left, and hit the accelerator straight past 'nuts'...

Charles said...
for bgault - Can you imagine the explosion that would have occurred had Bama been upset by an unranked team and a player said, 'Hey coach we won the SEC, that's what counts"? Speak truthfully bgault. You say this has been a great season for OSU. I guess as an SEC fan I am going to wish you many more great seasons, just like this one. Now write back and thank me for my heartfelt sentiments...P.S. What's your best guess? Do you think an OSU player after the Illinois game said to Tressel, don't worry, beat Mich and we're in the Roses. Take a wild guess if you are unsure.

7:07 PM

Charles said...
bgault - Again you have not carefully read my posts. I never said that I wished OSU many more successful seasons like this one.


OOPS...DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOU SAY, DO YOU CHARLES?

for bgault - I was being sarcastic as you should have recognized. As an SEC fan wishing you "heartfelt sentiments" you should have noticed the sarcasm. I felt your comment that OSU this year was as great a team as the previous great OSU teams was an exaggeration. Given the fact that OSU had so many top players to replace I think OSU has produced great results, but in no way shape or form do I see this year's team standing shoulder to shoulder with the great ones of the past. And my innocent question as you phrased it was not whether OSU was great this year, but as great as OSU teams of the past. But if you insist on describing this team as worthy of that description then I will wish you similar results in the coming years and laugh at the opportunity to do so. And if you truly believe that this team is that great you should thank me and not find fault.
What does it take to be called one of the greatest OSU teams ever? I think they have to dominate the regular season as they did last year as a first step. The team this year has not done so. To be one of the greatest ever last year's team had to beat Fla. Even if this year's team beats LSU it will not be one of the greatest ever. Will OSU fans be deliriously happy if LSU is beaten? Sure, but I think it takes more than that to call yourself one of the best OSU teams there ever was.
You keep going back to Tressel. In an Illinois post game interview a reporter could have noted that Illinois would likely be ranked in the next polls. Would that make the loss more acceptable? I do not think you would have gotten a Gundy explosion. I do not think you would have heard any comments to degrade Illinois specifically. But I think he would have referred to OSU tradition in some way and stated that there is no such thing as an acceptable or good loss for OSU. Coaches are generally realists, know they will get beaten, and even know there will be an upset once in a while. But acknowledging the reality of the theory and accepting it in its specifics are two different things.
You are aware that in a World Series in baseball that once in a while we find a player getting the MVP who is not one of the team's stars. All their fans are deliriously happy, but that player is never referred to as one of the best ever simply because of that accomplishment. I see this year's OSU team at that point, at best, with no chance to win 'one of the best ever' acknowledgements. You are under no obligation to respond to any of my posts just because you have done so in the past. I have stated clearly that even a victory over LSU will leave this team short of a one of the best ever tags. In your opinion are these guys one of the best ever for OSU, or simply having a great season given the need to rebuild in so many key positions? Fair question, or will you use the word idiot repeatedly in a response?

Charles,

With all due respect, you are now putting words into my mouth that I never said. I never said that this was one of the "great" Ohio State teams...go ahead, look at any post I've had on this thread. I did, however, say that this was a successful season based on historical expectations: 1. Beat Michigan; 2. Win the Big Ten outright; 3. Go to the Rose Bowl; 4. Worry about national rankings. So before you chastise me for "not reading your posts carefully," maybe you should think about the same. And, since you are rambling on and on incessantly about something that I never even insinuated, I'm confused why you question me calling you an idiot for this particular topic.

I reiterate that you are trying to stir the proverbial pot with no facts, no Ohio State fans asserting that this is one of the all time great teams, or no disappointment from Ohio State faithful about this team "not stacking up with past teams." As a whole, Buckeye nation is disappointed that they lost a game they could have won, and blew the chance to assure that they would be playing in the NC game. However, they are still thrilled that a team projected to compete NEXT YEAR has actually done so this year. No other team in the country can make that assertion in my opinion. So, once again, if you want to spew animosity toward an overachieving Buckeye team for the sake of somehow compensating for Florida not competing "with the Spurrier led teams of the past," then go right ahead. But I for one, still remain ecstatic over the current state of affairs.

bgault - my innocent question was simply to what extent was this a rebuilding year, and then stating my belief that year's team fell short of the great teams of the OSU past. I stated the latter in response to statements that this was not a rebuilding year for OSU, and the discussion detriorated from that point. Your most recent post regarding the current status of OSU is one I support. If I were an OSU fan I would be thrilled that a wait until next year attitude was abandoned when it became clear that a wait just might be unnecessary.
Could OSU handle LSU this year? Were it not for the possible game being played in New Orleans I would give OSU a much better chance, but if OSU plays and wins, or beats USC in the Rose I would acknowledge that given the rebuilding that this has been a terrific season for OSU. I think people would be foolish to suggest otherwise. But however the bowl game goes for OSU I think there is every indication that next year's team will be very special.
You should note that I started the year thinking Fla would likely face three or four losses. When it became clear that this was a reality I toasted past achievements. I stated this in a post immediately following the Georgia game. You will not find the first word for excuses or any expressions of sour grapes.

I would like to express admiration for June Jones. Not many great coaches would claim that losing their star quarterback and beating Nevada by two points was proof of greatness.

This year there will be 2 National Champions. A BCS champ and a AP champ.