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SI.com college football writer Stewart Mandel shares his commentary, analysis and random tidbits on the latest developments around the country.11/23/2007 07:52:00 PM LSU Goes Down; Border War Gets Bigger
KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- About the same time I landed here Friday to cover college football's improbable Game of the Year, the Arkansas Razorbacks stamped out what little strand of predictability remained of this 2007 season.
Darren McFadden and Arkansas tossed the latest wrench into the national title race.Chris Graythen/Getty Images
The last of our preconceived notions has officially gone out the window. Preseason No. 2 LSU, just like preseason No. 1 USC before it, was eliminated from national title contention. The Tigers lost their second triple-overtime game of the season Friday, 50-48 to the Darren McFadden-led Razorbacks. Thus, Kansas and Missouri will square off here tomorrow not only for the Big 12's North Division title but likely the title of America's No. 1 team.
Raise your hand if you saw that one coming in August.
Thursday night, 9-2 USC finally delivered a glimpse of "what might have been," dominating No. 7 Arizona State with the type of performance they could not muster back during those losses to Stanford and Oregon. The Tigers' season seemingly took the opposite course, with Les Miles' team peaking in September and hanging on for their lives ever since.
Friday, their luck ran out at the hands of a pesky rival whose championship died long ago but whose star running back/part-time quarterback just made one last eye-opening push for the Heisman, running for 205 yards and three touchdowns while passing for a fourth.
The ripple effect of LSU's loss is twofold: 1) It opens the door for 9-1 West Virginia and 11-1 Ohio State, the former of which now controls its Superdome destiny, the latter of which will join the Mountaineers there should Saturday's Border War winner fall the following week in San Antonio. 2) It likely expedites Miles' anticipated departure for Ann Arbor. When the expected call from Michigan AD Bill Martin comes shortly after the SEC title game, Miles can more comfortably walk away from a team preparing for a non-championship bowl game.
Following Friday's disappointment, I'm sure there are plenty of LSU fans who would help him pack his belongings.
Mind you, the Tigers can still win the SEC title next weekend, just as the Trojans are one more Oregon loss away from returning to the Rose Bowl, but don't be fooled. In both L.A. and Louisiana, 2007 will forever be remembered as disappointing.
Amazingly, this marks the first time since the BCS' 1998 inception that neither the AP preseason No. 1 or 2 teams will reach the national championship game. The way this season has gone, it seems only fitting.
LSU's loss also means that the venerable SEC -- such a lightning-rod for both compliments and criticism these past two seasons -- is likely dismissed from the national title picture. (There's still an Armageddon scenario under which 9-2 Georgia could reach the championship game, but let's not go there just yet). SEC loyalists will likely chalk this up as yet another sign of their conference's inordinate toughness, and that the Ohio States and West Virginias should count their lucky stars they don't have to play such a rigorous schedule.
There may be some truth to that, but you won't hear much sympathy from this scribe. I don't care what conference you play in -- if you can't make it through your schedule with less than two losses, you're not national championship material.
Granted, LSU couldn't have missed the mark by a slimmer margin.
· We're not even to Saturday, and this has already been a weekend chock full of "too little, too late" moments. Just as Friday's stirring Arkansas victory isn't likely to keep embattled coach Houston Nutt from slipping out the back door (likely destination: Baylor), Texas A&M's second straight upset of arch-rival Texas was not enough to earn 32-28 coach Dennis Franchione a sixth year in College Station.
It must be awfully pleasing to Aggies fans nonetheless.
For a second straight year, A&M beat its hated rival. The Aggies got a career passing day from QB Stephen McGee and are likely headed to the Alamo Bowl to face Penn State or Michigan.
UPDATE: Franchione announced his resignation at a press conference immediately after the game. See my next Blog post for reaction.
· I can think of no more fitting end to the dreadful Bill Callahan era at Nebraska than the Huskers putting up 51 points on rival Colorado -- and still losing by two touchdowns. Presumably, acting Nebraska AD Tom Osborne will send Callahan packing sometime over the weekend and officially launch his coaching search (if he hasn't already) first thing Monday.
It's clear that whoever takes over the Huskers -- a preseason top-20 team that wound up finishing 5-7 – will hardly be dealt a bare cupboard. If nothing else, he inherits a quarterback, Joe Ganz, who was highly productive these past few games upon taking over for the injured Sam Keller. It's also clear what the new coach's No. 1 priority will be: Recruiting some defenders.
· Meanwhile, Dan Hawkins' team (6-6) achieved no small milestone with the win, reaching bowl eligibility. Remember, this is a team that went 2-10 in Hawkins' debut season, raising questions whether the former Boise State coach could hack it in the Big 12. While his second season had its ups and downs, beating Oklahoma and going to a bowl game are both highly encouraging signs heading into 2008.
· Fourth-year Mississippi State coach Sylvester Croom achieved his own significant milestone Friday with a dramatic 17-14 Egg Bowl win over Ole Miss. At 7-5 –- including 4-4 in the SEC -- the Bulldogs are now guaranteed to go bowling, something they have not done since 2000. Not bad for a guy who most considered a dead man walking earlier in the season.
On the other side, the Ed Orgeron job watch is officially underway. Though the Rebels had their moments throughout the season, taking Florida and Alabama to the wire, at the end of the day they still went winless in the SEC in this, Orgeron's third season at the school. With touted Texas transfer Jevan Snead set to take over at quarterback next season and Ole Miss' talent level seemingly on the rise, it's probably safe to assume Orgeron will be back for a fourth season, but he's going to need to demonstrate Ron Zook-type improvement in the wins column next year.
· Finally, I thought I'd give you guys a little glimpse of the lengths I go to on behalf of this Blog.
My flight landed at Kansas City's airport about the same time the LSU-Arkansas game was heading into overtime. Much to my dismay, all the airport restaurants and shops were already closed (isn't there a game going on here?) at 5:20 p.m., so I hopped in my rental car, got on I-29 –- and stopped at the first exit with an Applebee's, making it to the bar just in time to catch the last few plays and write this entry.
Sadly, my first exposure to the purportedly bitter Border War was a busboy at a suburban Applebee's wearing a "Beat Kansas" T-shirt. I think it's time to head downtown …posted by Stewart Mandel | View comments |Comments:
Thanks for being such a trooper and writing a blog post on the fly, Stewart. I live for your columns on days like this!I struggle to see why West Virginia is better than Ohio State; and on the flip side, why Ohio State is any better than West Virginia. Ohio State lost at home to the second best team in its conference; West Virginia lost to a middling team that was a pretender, but in a tough away environment. I can only think that the reason OSU might end up on the outside looking in is that people still haven't gotten over last year's debacle in Glendale. It's sad that memories of a almost a year ago will determine who gets to play for the title.I bow down to the Gods of unpredictability. I also wish Les Miles Godspeed on his quest to Michigan...truly, no one has done "les" with more than coach miles. My son in Baton Rouge told me he had a friend at an auto dealership who confirmed that Spurrier was in town for a "job interview" a week ago. I can only hope. Congratulations, all you SEC-haters. LSU has choked, true to form, and opened up the NCG to the truly deserving Ohio States and West Virginias of the world. My fondest desire is for Les Miles toi get his Michigan dream job and for LSU to get a coach who understands the Game and can get the most out of the talent he has at his disposal.I would like to thank CBS for choosing to air an episode of "COPS Oregon" instead of showing the end of the Arkansas LSU game. Really appreciated that one.Boy oh boy.. for all the so called dominance of SEC and LSU... would certainly like to see Kansas and the Ohio State in the NC game.. would be interested to see how Mr. Mandel is is going to rank the teams now..Stewart that was great. Nothing is a surprise and seasons like this make everyone believe that any team can win on any given day. It is very gratifying and ungratifying to know that no team or conference is beyond loosing even to bad teams in a strong conference - I took a swipe at the SEC, or good teams in a weak conference - one at the Big 10(11). However, what do loses like this due to teams outside the BCS? UH, for one.Also, Stewart, I read your articles religiously, and respect your insight as a professional in the field. My focus has been on LSU since about the 1966 Cotton Bowl (ironically against a #2 Ranked Arkansas team on a 22 game win streak), so I lack your nation-wide perspective. Do you see any set of circumstances that would result in LSU playing for a NC, or is it another "wait until next year"scenario. If it is, please do not rank LSU highly unless they have a new coach. - thanks, thibodeaux in distressOn your visit to KC you will find many new awakenings. BBQ, great football traditions, the magnificent Midwest and a rivalry only imagined on the coasts. May the better team win. Go MIZZOU !!Well it looks like the OVERRATED SEC losts its shot at the national title and Ohio St. with your creampuff schedule, sorry about that too. Only shot you have is if WVU loses or someone other then KU or MO wins the big12 lolmjthibo:
We're not abunch of SEC haters, we recognize the talent and quality of teams and competition in the SEC. You should thank your so called "SEC lovers" for the national sentiment about your conference. They have been, in the face of obvious facts to the contrary, the ones being braggards and trying to shove SEC superiority down everyone elses throat. Youn only have to look back to the same old crap coming from SEC fans last year and then realize that the SEC went 1-2 vs. the far inferior and slower (SEC fan definitions) Big 10 last year. Y'all bring it on yourselves by making claims your teams aren't obviously capable of delivering.
Good luck in the bowls and hopefully 2 years of eating the crap you try to pass onto the country will bring y'all back to reality and objectivity.
Regards to all!where's that idiot who's always writing "GEAUX TIGERS!!!!" on these blog posts? HAH!What is with your anti-Oklahoma slant lately? Not only have you written them off after the loss at Tech, but you continue to write about false hopes for other teams in the Big 12 South. With the Texas loss today, OU has locked up the South - win or lose against OSU. They will beat Mizzou a second time (who will give KU a dose of reality on Saturday).
Let's not forget that OU lost their quarterback in the first 5 minutes of the game and still nearly came back to win. In fact, if there had been 3 more minutes to play, they would have. (Notice I'm not even mentioning the bogus officiating...)
Now that Bradford is back, they will be in the Fiesta Bowl...against...Oregon. Isn't that what you wanted all along? It is what rivals.com thinks too..
So give me a break and stop predicting Texas as the Big 12 at large BCS team...not gonna happen.Man Spurrier at LSU? God help the SEC and the world if thats true.On whether the game affects UH:
My personal guess is No. LSU will still be in the top 10, and Arkansas won't leapfrog UH, so that situation is static. UH needs the teams ranked in the 8-18 range to lose if possible.
On LSU making the national championship: Very doubtful. First off, they can't pass OSU now. They would need WVU to lose once, OU to lose this weekend and then win the Big XII (if OU wins the Big XII with just the 2 losses, it will probably finish ahead of LSU in the BCS standings), and they probably need to beat Georgia in the SEC Championship, not Tennessee, so they'll need Kentucky to beat the Volunteers.I am an Ohio State fan and I believe that my buckeyes are still an year away from playing for the national title. That said, I don't mind if they actually end up playing for national title this year. It is not their fault that teams above them falter and fail to take care of business. Contrary to popular perception, LSU's defense has been its Achilles heel and they couldn't do anything against McFadden and team on the field today. That said, Darren McFadden is a joy to watch and it's a pity that he will finish his college without winning the Heisman Trophy (which seems to belong to Tim Tebow). I think LSU struck a deal with CBS that they would keep viewers glued to the TVs (and hence increase ad revenues) by playing unnecessary close nail biters while they should have been beating teams hands down considering their talent.
Stewart: I was expecting that you would write a column on the game today and you did not disappoint. I appreciate this column considering your travel and everything.I am an Ohio State fan and I believe that my buckeyes are still an year away from playing for the national title. That said, I don't mind if they actually end up playing for national title this year. It is not their fault that teams above them falter and fail to take care of business. Contrary to popular perception, LSU's defense has been its Achilles heel and they couldn't do anything against McFadden and team on the field today. That said, Darren McFadden is a joy to watch and it's a pity that he will finish his college without winning the Heisman Trophy (which seems to belong to Tim Tebow). I think LSU struck a deal with CBS that they would keep viewers glued to the TVs (and hence increase ad revenues) by playing unnecessary close nail biters while they should have been beating teams hands down considering their talent.
Stewart: I was expecting that you would write a column on the game today and you did not disappoint. I appreciate this column considering your travel and everything.On Les Miles:
LSU needs Miles to leave. This team had too much talent to lose 2 OT games and squeak by a couple other weak sisters. Miles just doesn't have the SEC mentality; he needs to be in the Big East or Pac-10 (I don't think he'd prosper in the Big Ten, which is why I really hope he ends up in Michigan).That GEAUX TIGERS dude has long forgotten his comedic posts and is probably posting under another name.
He'll be back next year gloating of SEC superiority based on pure speculation and not actual results from the field. That is why LSU has remained as high as they have despite losing to a 4 loss team and now make that 2 4 loss (and counting) teams. They are done as far as the NC game goes.
The biggest and most interesting question now is:
Is if Stewart's and the rest of the country's (outside of the Buckeye nation) so called "nightmare" is really over.
Thats what is on everyone's minds right now.
Good luck to all of your favorite teams and lets hope for an exciting bowl season.
Regards to all!Ohio State doesnt deserve to be in the national championship until someone loses. They lost in November. plain and simple. the pollsters need to quite being so partial to the Buckeyes. The whole country is forced to watch them time and time again on Primetime networks instead of watching more deserving teams.
WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE ANOTHER SUCKEYE FAILURE.....If Les Miles goes to Michigan, and loses the next four games to Tressel and 2 or 3 to Zook, I think every SEC fan on here should have to eat their shorts for punishment.....The SEC is over-rated. None of the top SEC teams could take care of business in their own house. You can't be a championship contender and lose home games to unranked teams. This is not a sign that your conference is tough, it is a sign that your teams are over-hyped.I bet Saban could have gotten LSU's players to the National Championship game. Too bad he coaches somewhere else now. Tigers BLEAUX!OSU may not be an elite team, but a Missou/WV battle for the NC will not mean many sleepless nights between now and January. Far from a season of excitement it has been a season of confusion and disappointment. This is the first year we could have a 2-loss NC and except for the fans of the schools above it will be a lost year. Has there ever been a yearwhen a 2-loss NC was remotely possible at this point? That speaks volumes about the season.
Put Kansas and Hawaii in the NC and the rest of us can all get drunk. For those youngsters it reminds me of the year BYU won the NC without playing a top team the entire season. I think I'll have a drink right now.thanks for the early xmas present carr with les miles, can't wait till you get to scum!!! sec way overrated! good programs, but after auburn's 03 snub on a pr banquet even pres candidate would envy. get ready for osu / wvu title game. sooners should take care of business in san antonio.As I said about 6 weeks ago, every team is overrated this season! I think it's great that there aren't any dominant teams. It gives hope to supporters of almost any decent program!!!Mandel!! What were you thinking? Take a red-eye or something. Missing the LSU v R Kansas game was a huge mistake. Come on.Both preseason favorites to play in the national championship game have 2 losses. Is it possible to see them in a bowl game playing each other?
Of course, my second choice is Pete Carrol v. Jim Tressel in the Rose Bowl. #1 reigning coach of this decade v. the #2. However, seeing how each defense is doing great especially compared to its offensive counterpart, I'm predicting a low scoring and a boring game.
LSU losing at home to a team having a down year that was destroyed by the Trojans last year... feels good for any SC fan. Too bad we started off the season slowly.
As for an earlier comment made, WVU is a better team than OSU. OSU lost to Illinois, and WVU has a better qb and a running back AND a better defense than Illinois. So, if WVU plays OSU (I pray that OSU does NOT reach the NC game), it will be worse than the Florida spanking.
But, what happens if the Big 12 South contestant wins the Big 12? Along with another losses for WVU, VA Tech, and everyone else in the top10? This year is greatHawaii has a cool warm-up routine. Is that something native, or is my hearing aid on the fritz?Well, as time goes by I am feeling less sick about LSU BLOWING their gift-wrapped chance to play in the NCG. Maybe it's the turkey and sausage gumbo ( or the Wild Turkey after-effects), but I am at peace with the world. Man, what a CFB season!!! There's still chapters to be written, so now I think I'll pull for Cinderella and see if Kansas can't win it all. I'd love to see the SEC prevail, but that would mean Georgia would have to sneak into the SEC championship game and beat my Tigers in conjunction with a lot of other unprobable circumstances...so I'll just have to wait intil next year along with 117 other division I afficianados. Hang in there, college football fans. Every week means something, every game can be a playoff elimination game, the BCS sucks - but it's better than the alternatives I see. Good luck to those whose teams still have a chance at the crystal ball.Each week is a playoff until Selection Sunday. Unless a playoff if created that would coincide with the bowl season, then losers in November should NOT be considered a national title contender. thats the way the ol' BCS cookie crumblesHang on a minute.
Les Miles should not be "forced out" at LSU by fans or administration. Coming from a dedicated Buckeye fan, Les Miles has done a fantastic job at LSU. If the 2002 National Champion "Luckeyes" played the schedule LSU did this season, there is no chance the Bucks go to the Fiesta Bowl and beat Miami. If Les Miles comes to M*ch!g@n, you might see the Ten Year War Part II with he and Tressel.
Shame on you LSU fans. And thank you Arkansas!!! GO BUCKEYES!!!!First I'd like to say that I'm a big Oklahoma fan, and I do believe that when they're on, not many teams will beat them. The problem is they're not consistent as shown by the loses. I'd put several other teams in the same tier, Missouri, Oregon, Florida and USC. Several others are next Ohio State, LSU, and Kansas. But nobody is a GREAT team, just a bunch of good ones. I pick Missouri over Kansas and OU over Missouri AGAIN. OSU and WVU in championship gameGeeze Charles:
"Far from a season of excitement it has been a season of confusion and disappointment."
Just what is your definition of excitement? Is it that every team that has a big name and been dominant on the national front in the past wins every game and we have the same old contenders vying for the big prize?
And the only thing disappointing for us football fans is the very thing that makes this season exciting...our favorite (and favored) teams have lost to less regarded teams this year.
I have to respectfully disagree and say that although I am disappointed that my favorie team got taken down once, this has been a memorable and exciting season.
We can only hope that the bowls bring about as equitable competition as the regular season has.
Good luck to all your teams going forward...its more interesting than anyone could have ever dreamed up!
Regards to all!Georgia actually has a decent chance of making it to NC game. They would need west virginia to lose, but with winner of ku/mizzou game losing in big 12 championship game there is a good chance the Dawgs could sneak in. The way they are playing right now they would be favored to win it too.For dink - The ESPN people just said this kind of carnage amongst highly respected teams hasn't happened in 17 years. And there could be more. But you say that doesn't qualify for a season of disappointment and confusion. If you haven't been confused please say so. You must be very wealthy at this point. Get a life.I cant understand why everyone talks about Ohio State's supposed creampuff schedule. I wont say that they necessarily had a tough schedule but how is it their fault if the rest of the Big 10 was weak this year. Every team has a schedule at the beginning of the year and if those opponents end up being bad what are they supposed to do, cancel those games and schedule new ones. Before the season Ohio State was scheduled to play a highly ranked Michigan team, a highly ranked Wisconsin team and a ranked Illinois team. The fact that those teams ended up not being as good as they were supposed to be isnt OSU's fault. And dont give me crap about an easy non-conference schedule in a year when supposed "creampuffs" are shocking everyone in college football. The fact of the matter is OSU makes a schedule and goes out and wins their games (other then Illinois) Tell me other than Kansas and maybe Mizzou who is so much more deserving than the Buckeyes? whats more embarrasing a loss to a decent Illinois team or a loss to South Florida or Colorado or Stanford or Kentucky. All these great teams with these murderous schedules arent losing to amazing opponents.Do you honestly believe Darren McFadden will lose the Heisman to Tebow? Come on. He is the best player in the college game today, bar none, and will be the first to go in the draft.
WOO PIG SOOIE !! RAZORBACKS !!Don't count the SEC out just yet guys. All it takes is West Virginia losing one of their last two games, and the winner of Kansas/Missouri losing the Big 12 Championship. If that happens Georgia is in the mix. They will really be in good shape if they make it to the SEC Championship game and win. It could very well be Georgia humiliating Ohio State this year.God forbid Jim "The Weisel" Tressel to sneak into the Natioanl Championship. The Pollsters only dropped he Buckeyes to No. 7 when they lost to an unranked team. now there in position to make title game ahead of more deserving teams
If Kansas,West Virginia or Mizzou win out, they should go..but if the buckeyes are the last team remaining team with one loss, then they should go. Even if Division I-AA Appalcian State was able to put more points and exitment on the Wolverines.God forbid Jim "The Weisel" Tressel to sneak into the Natioanl Championship. The Pollsters only dropped he Buckeyes to No. 7 when they lost to an unranked team. now there in position to make title game ahead of more deserving teams?
If Kansas,West Virginia or Mizzou win out, they should go..but if the buckeyes are the last team remaining team with one loss, then they should go. Even if Division I-AA Appalachian State was able to put up more points (and excitement) on the Wolverines.I just moved to Savannah GA about 10 months ago where there are about a 50/50 mix of Dawgs and Gators fans. I am an OSU fan and got here just after the Football NC game and just in time for the basketball NC game and now if Georgia and OSU somehow sneak into the game this year i might have to go out and buy a gun.Billy - I don't agree with your "shame on you" staement in regards to LSU fans wishing a Michigan future for Les Miles. While he is better than 90% of the coaches out there, he still has that little bit missing to be a Nat'l Championship coach. Sure, most teams would love to go 10-2 during the regular season every year. My gfripe with Miles is that he had one of the most talented teams in the nation (on both sides of the ball) during the last three years and couldn't get them to play up to the level of their talent in critical games. Don't get me wrong - he's infinitely better than Curley Hallman, Gerry Dinardo, and even Nick Satan - but he still has something missing. I only hope that my son's insider information that Spurrier was in Baton Rouge a week ago for a job interview relates to a potential assignment at LSU. With the in-state talent available, I have no doubt that the ol' ball coach would get more out of them than "the Hat"...Billy,
As a UM fan, I would love to see a return to the 10-year war. It sucks that you guys have kicked our butts the last 7 years, but it was the opposite in the 90s. The rivalry has been one-sided the last 20 years one way or the other. If UM doesn't get Miles, I hope they go after Brian Kelly at Cincy. Similar track record to the Vest.
Bucknut, relax bud. Losing to USF is worse than losing to Illinois? Really? Seems comparable to me, especially since you guys lost at home.
Stew, what are the chances UM goes after Kelly if Miles doesn't come? I hate the other big names on that list (i.e. Gruden).What a bizarre season all around. Sadly for this Texas-Ex was the confirmation of my suspicions from the Arkansas State game on opening weekend that the Longhorns were pretty mediocre. What's worse is the realization that the National Title was all VY and not much Mack Brown. He remains a great recruiter and outstanding mentor, but his game day skills just are not there. As for coach Dennis, good riddance. TAMU is a classy school with the best fans in the country, and they deserve better than this schmuck.I am going to assume footballdigester is an SEC alum, considering he cant spell WEASEL correctly. GEAUX WEISELS (thats "Go weasels" for the rest of the educated population north of the Carolinas)Did anyone happen to notice how thoroughly USC DEMOLISHED Arizona State? If 2-loss teams have a chance to get New Orleans they appear to be a good choice.Charles:
You misunderstood my post completely.
I made no reference to confusion and you should look up the definition of "respectfully" which I used towards you in my post, you obviously don't understand it.
Thats alright, everyone saw your true character come out in your post and I don't have to say anything to make an *** out of you, you've done that for yourself already....sore loser.For bucknut - The rest of us talk about OSU's supposedly creampuff schedule because as you say the "Big Ten was weak this year" and Wash, Akron, Kent St & Youngstown was more than weak.
Let's face it. OSU has done nicely in a rebuilding year, but the loss to Illinois (unranked at the time), and no quality wins, is not the mark of a great OSU team. The Big Ten is not just weak this year, but is a mess. The best the Pac Ten can offer is a 2-loss team, ditto the SEC. The best of the Big 12 is far removed from their great years. The teams with the best records in the Big 12 did not hurry Texas and OK towards human status so it is premature to say that Kansas & Missou are the new kings. Even a win over OK at this point is hardly something to base greatness on, especially when it is the only big win of the season. WV has played no one consistently believed to be a high caliber team. The ACC may be represented by VA Tech, or worse, and VA Tech has faced humiliation. It looks to me like a season of disappointment and confusion, unless you happen to be one of the lucky ones who have played no quality teams all year. Cent Mich may have the best record of any Kansas foe, and Akron almost flattened them today.Before the Arkansas fiasco, I was wishing for Tennessee to be in the SEC title game - figuring LSU would cruise. Now all I can hope for is a top-ten Georgia team and a lot of fortuitous upsets with the other "top" teams for LSU to have a chance at the National Title - of course that would mean Ohio State as the opponent. I know it's a long shot,l but what the heck. All I've ever had is hope. The next best thing would be a Rose Bowl against USC so that those demons might be put to rest. Who the hell knows what will happen? All I can say is that I'm glad I haven't bet any money on college games this year.Sprawlnuts- i dont think any of those losses are better or worse than one another. But the difference is no one is griping about WVU or Kansas' schedule like they do about Ohio State's. And thats only because historically WVU and Kansas havent been great teams so therefore no one has a reason to dislike (be jealous) of them. I didnt try to argue that the Buckeyes had a great schedule but can you name another 1-loss team that does?Another wild weekend so far, and another "defensive battle" in the SEC. Congrats to Arkansas, and I'm sure LSU will be ready to play in whatever bowl they're in. Now I'll look forward to a great KU/Missouri game tomorrow night!
And you guys that talk about WVU beating OSU worse than Florida did last year, and/or "who gets to humiliate OSU THIS year" crack me up. If OSU ends up going, I'll root for them but if there's ANY learning that CFB fans should have this year, it's that smack talk basically has no legitimacy. As to WVU being so much better than OSU, you must not have seen some of the WVU games I saw. They're a good team, like the other teams in the top 15 or so, but NOBODY is dominant this year, and I'll say once again that Tressel isn't going to let last year's game happen again.
As for the "Weasel" Tressel comment, I have NO idea why you'd be thinking that. Tressel is one of the classiest coaches out there...you want to hate OSU for whatever reason, go ahead, but Tressel is a class act.
If WVU and the winner of KU/Missouri both out, they absolutely belong in the NC game...but trash talking at this point is just kind of silly, and as much as any season ever was, likely to lead to a large dish of crow after the first of the year.I guess I just don't get it. I'm glad Arkansas won but I still think that Les Miles is a heck of a football coach. I think that Coach Caroll reflected well on himself and USC by stepping up a couple of weeks ago and taking responsibility for the Stanford lost. Somebody has to lose...every game there's a loser. So? LSU & USC remain tremendous programs...you people are hard on coach's that's the only thing for certain here. (PS I'm not much looking forward to OSU in the NC game...so maybe that's a game I can skip).To answer all the LSU haters out there, which seem to be a lot right now. All you need to do is read the strength of schedule ratings for LSU, Ohio State, and Kansas. Finished reading yet or do you want me to answer for you. Thats right, LSU has played a far more difficult schedule and the ratings prove that. And as for losing against a non ranked opponent. Who was it that beat OSU... oh thats right, the un-ranked Illini. Wow, those guys literally ran the ball down your throats the last 9 minutes of the game and you could have only hoped to make it to OT. Your not going to the NC game either, and you know why, 1) you didnt deserve it, and 2) nobody in America wants to see you there again. What happened last year? Oh yea, those "over-rated" SEC boys beat the crap out of you. What a joke the Big 10 is.As an LSU fan let me just say this. LSU's defense IS the biggest fraud of the 07 college football season. Injuries are no excuse. I think if Miles had not been LSU's coach, they would not have beaten Florida, or Auburn. I do think that he chose a reckless coaching style, and that showed. #1 in the SEC in penalties. When Arkansas scored point number 50, I was wishing LSU would lose, because after that game, LSU did not deserve to go to the toilet bowl. I hope Bo Pelini gets his act together...he has done a lazy coaching job this year, and it showed after the V Tech game. I wish that this were a playoff system so that the Tigers could just bow out gracefully and correct what went wrong. I dont care about SEC dominance either. I just want my Tigers to be a consistant great team. GEAUX TIGERS...now its time to drink.Stewart-
Our long national nightmare might not be over after all. It is very possible that OSU will get to the title game after all. Unlike the rest of the western world I believe that their defense would keep them close against anyone.I just don't see why there is not a playoff system. You have weaker conferences like the Big 10 and the ACC and yet the SEC can't put a team in the tite game, even when they run the table like Auburn did a few years ago....for dink - I never said that there hasn't been excitement. Certainly there has been excitement and lots of it. When unranked teams defeat OSU, LSU, USC, OK, Tex, Mich and any other teams thought to be elite when the season began there is no end to the excitement.
But when teams like Mich and others lose to these teams there is also confusion and disappointment, and not just on a local fan level. Perhaps you've missed it but no expert is left standing to boast his/her expertise and knowledge. If you want to present yourself as the one person who hasn't been disappointed or confused by the results please feel free to do so. A lot of people seem unhappy with Stew.It is evident you wrote this on the fly. How can anyone with two working eyes not believe the strength of the conference does not matter? I bet the top half of the SEC would give Ohio State all it could handle. Or, any one loss team for that matter. PERIOD. So, if a team has two losses, it SHOULD still be considered for the fake national championship at the college level. Anyone who disagrees with this is void of rational thinking.Charles:
I'm not sure I understand your post, but I'm assuming you're comfortable eliminating any team as "great" if they lose to an unranked team, right? Not just OSU?
How many times do we have to talk about how little rankings actually matter?? Especially when the timing of being ranked is so variable...so if Illinois wasn't ranked at the time, that means they're no good? What about if the team was ranked at the time, but then lost their ranking? They were no good either?
Rankings are bogus. Bowl games with other conference teams are an imperfect measure of relative strength and quality, but it's hard for me to think of something that's a better measure at this time. If conference "A" truly IS phenomenal, then they should dominate their bowl opponents. If they don't dominate them, I think it's a fair argument that they were overrated. We'll see, but I'm predicting pretty much all major conferences go about .500 in their bowl games this year...I think teams are way closer in quality than many think. But regardless, I (and Charles, and others) will be here for a serving of "whatever" after bowl games.to Charles,
Just because your LSU tigers and the rest of their overrated SEC brethren aren't going to be in the NC game doesn't make this a lost season. Most Americans live somewhere other than SEC country and we're just fine with that. There's plenty of good football being played in places where it's not sunny and perfect on every game day.Bucknut - I misunderstood, I agree with you there. Mizzou would have the most difficult schedule if they won out, but not by much. I do have a question for you an Dink, if you do make it to the NCG, who would you rather see, WVU, KU, or Mizzou?Thank you LSU for proving the weakness of the SEC by losing to an unranked team at home ;)For Gatorchomp - Be fair to Stew. He said the long national nightmare was over because we no longer had to worry about an LSU/OSU deja vu. The picture has changed. I know OSU is ranked behind WV and that neither team has played any team consistently thought to be Top Ten material. But Tressel and OSU have been there before and for that reaon I think OSU should be favored now. Don't you?Stewart,
I'd love to see Les Miles explain this one. After all the talking how good his teams was, it finally caught up to him. Next time he should keep his big mounth shut. Ask him if he still wants to play USC!Stewart, you say "Preseason No. 2 LSU, just like preseason No. 1 USC before it, was eliminated from national title contention" ... but later, you acknowledge that "There's still an Armageddon scenario under which 9-2 Georgia could reach the championship game." If you realizse that Georgia can reach the title game, don't you see that LSU and USC are also very much still alive, should "Armageddon" come to pass?
Obviously, Ohio State is ahead of all two-loss teams in the pecking order. But nothing else is set in stone. It is entirely possible that everyone except Kansas (which cannot lose more than one game) could finish with two losses... and I think USC and LSU would be ahead of the Jayhawks and the pecking order if they win their conferences and Kansas loses to Missouri tomorrow, thus finishing its season without a single quality win.
LSU, in particular, is NOT out of the title picture. The Trojans are more of a stretch. But LSU is still effectively fourth in the pecking order, in my estimation. The Missouri/Kansas winner is #1, West Virginia is #2, Ohio State is #3, and LSU, if the Tigers win the SEC, are #4. If you disagree, what two-loss team do you think is ahead of them? Georgia? Assuming Tennessee wins tomorrow, both the Tigers and Bulldogs could finish with two losses... but LSU would be the SEC champion, while Georgia wouldn't even have won its division. Surely the voters would have to take that into consideration. At the very least, it's certainly not a gimme that Georgia would finish ranked higher. The only other two-loss team that I can see finishing ahead of LSU is Oklahoma, if they beat Okie State and win the Big 12, but if it came down to an argument between those the Sooners and Tigers, LSU can say it's the champion of the tougest conference in football and lost two games to quality opponents in triple-overtime.
As for USC, the Trojans need a lot more help: West Virginia, Virginia Tech and Oregon must lose; Oklahoma must lose to Okie State, then win the Big 12; and either Tennessee must beat Kentucky or Georgia must lose to Georgia Tech, and then the three-loss East Division champion must beat LSU. So it's unlikely. But it could still happen.
But as for LSU and Georgia, it wouldn't take "Armageddon" to get one of them into the title game. It would just take a West Virginia loss to UConn or Pitt and an Oklahoma win over Kansas/Missouri. That's only two things that have to happen.Joe:
Please, no whining. We've had "OSU haters" and "Big 10 haters" like you on our back all year long, so welcome to the club. And BTW, there's been plenty of trash talking from LSU fans, so don't be surprised when you get some of it back. If the SEC is god's gift to football (which fewer and fewer people are thinking) they should wipe everybody out in the bowl games. Or are you already thinking about excuses for when that doesn't happen?Ok, im sorry, but I just have to say this. Will all of the USC fans crawl back into their holes please. You lost two games just like LSU. Just because you guys came out and beat ASU last night doesnt give you the right to chest beat. Two weeks ago you were doing exactly what LSU fans are doing now. Trying to figure out what went wrong. Admit it! Both LSU and USC were good teams this year. NOT GREAT! The whole 03 thing is dead. Nobody from those teams are around, and Miles did not even coach the 03 team. If you hate him so much, take it out on him when he takes Michigan to a Rose bowl one day. JUST STOP THE 03 FEUD! It is over.As for Les Miles, it seems like some of you are being really hard on him. I'm not as close to it as you LSU fans are (you'd know more about his decision making), but he seems like a good coach to me, and I would certainly think he'd build a tremendous legacy at Michigan. I think he'd be a really worthy adversary for Tressel.chrth,
Although it is unlikely, LSU could still pass OSU, because they still have the SEC championship game to play. A lot depends on how far LSU falls in the polls. Given the small falls of OSU and USC after their losses, it would be inconsistent for the fall to be below 7 or 8.
If that is the case, it is possible (though by no means guaranteed) for LSU to move to No.2 if
Kansas beats Missouri but loses to Oklahoma
West Virginia loses
LSU has a solid win over a top 5 UGA in the SEC championship
Personally, I don't care about any condition except the last, where I hope UGA beats LSU (providing that UT loses to UK)This post has been removed by the author.Sprawlnuts
I would like OSU to play WVU. Not that i think we could win easier against them than say KU or Missouri, my reason is strictly because of location. I am from Steubenville, Ohio which is right on the Ohio River which is just as close to Morgantown as it is to Columbus. So i have always wanted Ohio State to play them just because of location and if its for the title that would be even better. I know thats a lame answer but its the truth. Now if i answered strictly on who i think would be the least challenging i gotta go with Kansas. But then again i was happy when Florida snuck in last year instead of a rematch with Michigan. You know what they say, "Be careful what you wish for, cause you might get it"I want to amend my earlier analysis: I didn't realize the computers hate Oklahoma. There's very little chance a 2-loss OU team makes the National Championship.Charles-
Ohio State has a very, very fast and very physical defense and an awfully good O-line. After watching several teams score freely on LSU I don't believe that LSU and OSU would have been the massacre that everyone thought. LSU might have won but not anything like our shellacking of them last year. Had LSU not be bitten by the injury bug it may have been a different story.
Right now, I'd say that the chances are 50-50 of OSU being National Champions. If they get there and play against any of the other survivors in the top 5 they should win it. I don't see any of the survivors having an answer for that defense.
Now, USC is another story altogether!So with LSU's loss, you think any of their other "close" wins will come back to haunt them? In other words, is there any likelihood that pollsters will factor in those close calls and take them a bit further down than if they were convincing wins? I don't think they should but was wondering if they would. Guess to me a win is a win is a win.Bucknut:
I threw this out in another blog but I think a yearly/traditional OSU/WVU game would be a really great and fun thing...both teams could add a quality opponent as well as start another regional rivalry. I'd be curious what effect you think that might have on the folks on the border...think it'd turn into the Hatfields and McCoys?When SEC fans speak of strength of schedule, they almost always speak of rankings. If you need any proof that a) rankings are meaningless, and b) SEC teams are overrated, consider these facts:
* Twelve teams with a Top 5 ranking have lost to unranked opponents. In a world with 119 teams, 66 of which will play in bowl games, the fact that an unranked team can defeat a highly ranked team should come as no surprise. Welcome to the club, LSU.
* In the SEC only Georgia (6) holds its highest ranking of the season.
* South Carolina (6), Kentucky (8), Arkansas (16) and Alabama (16) are UNRANKED. And on average Florida (3), Tennessee (15) and Auburn (17) are ranked 8 spots below their season highs.It continues to amaze me...this whole debate of what conference is better? It doesn't matter whose conference is better, it matters if you win the games on the schedule. It never ceases to amaze me how if SEC teams beat-up one another they are called a tough conference, yet when Big 10 teams beat-up each another, they are called a weak conference...makes no sense. Last I checked the Big 10 has 10 bowl eligible teams - with 2 possibly going to a BCS game. You people have fun discussing such an inane subject and I will sit back and watch Ohio State playing for a Nat'l Title on 1/7/08.jeuga: I don't think any 2-loss team could top OSU. The computers actually respect OSU (tied with WVU in 3rd), and since the Big Ten is done, there should be little movement in their computer number (although obviously they'll move up a spot with LSU falling). Throw in the fact that human voters are sheep and are very unlikely to put a Big Six 2-loss over a Big Six 1-loss team, and I'd say OSU is safe."There may be some truth to (rigorous SEC schedule), but you won't hear much sympathy from this scribe. I don't care what conference you play in -- if you can't make it through your schedule with less than two losses, you're not national championship material."
Amen, Brother Stewart, testify!for osuneer - There's plenty of good football being played. The Big East and ACC have many teams that usually play good football, but none of the teams in those confs can boast of the quality victories of SEC and Pac Ten teams. But those confs apparently have too much parity (or perhaps no elite teams themselves)and can only give us 2-loss teams. The Big Ten has had a dominant team. But a victory over Mich, Wisc & Pn St isn't what it used to be. Even OSU fans acknowledge the weak Big Ten. The teams with the best records in the Big 12 have not played either Tx or OK. Can you crown them the best of the Big 12 until they have shown they can handle Tx and OK? And you know handling Tx and OK isn't what it used to be so even if you do crown them many questions remain. There is no evidence of a top caliber team that has played good football from week to week.
Neither Kansas nor Hawaii have played a team thought to be the caliber of Oreg, Ariz St, USC, Fla, etc. More than that they have not had to play an Oreg a week or two after having played a USC. Of the teams with the best record only OSU can come close to saying it has faced some teams capable of producing some very good results. But OSU does not have the record over teams ranked when they played of many SEC and Pac Ten teams.
So call me a poor loser, or an idiot if you want, but I've tried to base my conclusions on some facts.I agree that an annual Ohio State - West Virginia game would be cool and wish it would happen except for two reasons.
1) I think the rivalry would mean more to WVU than it would to OSU - kinda like Michigan State vs Michigan.
2) It would only be exciting if West Virginia stays good, dont forget that WVU isnt historically a powerhouse and they could easily go through a 5 or 10 year lull where they are completely irrelevent.
I dont mean any of that to be insulting cause i honestly like to see WVU do good. I am a fan of them, unless they play the Buckeyes that is.What we've learned in the past few weeks is that the SEC is one of the weaker conferences this year. The alleged "superiority" never existed, at least outside of the minds of SEC fans. The strength of the SEC seems to be very similar to a suffering Big Ten, the Big East, and less than that of the Pac 10 with a healthy Dennis Dixon at Oregon.
I hope that Ohio State makes the title game this year. Jim Tressel, who I believe to be a legitimate genius, will put January's embarrassment in its proper context. And it would be a great struggle, for a Big Ten defense to cope with a mobile QB like Pat White.
Les Miles will be nothing short of a disaster for Michigan. His choice in plays is atrocious.Bucknut - Understood. I also think Kansas would be easiest more because of the style they play. WVU and Mizzou have similar styles to Illinois and would give the Buckeye defense more trouble. Any way it comes out, I doubt there will be a blowout in the NCG this year.Charles-
Don't leave Stanford out of you "juggernaut" list. After all, they beat USC.This post has been removed by the author.for Gatorchomp - I would not suggest that your analysis of LSU/OSU is mistaken. But consider this. LSU lost two games in overtime. Last year Fla lost to Aub and was a blocked field goal from losing to S. Car. Yet they rousted OSU.
I never said Stew was right. I only tried to communicate what I thought he was saying. But cut me some slack here. Not only would OSU have faced LSU after that dreaded 51 day lay off so many of you have cited as a major factor in their defeat to Fla, but the game would have been played in New Orleans. Granted OSU has character, but playing a team in front of their home folks when the home folks are loud can have a major impact. OSU would have entered that game with many strikes against it. Would you have bet even money on them, enough to hurt if OSU lost?This post has been removed by the author.Okay, one more thought about rankings...if they were truly meaningful, I don't think we'd see all the "upsets" we've seen this year. And if there truly is a great deal of parity (which I believe there is, not only within conferences but across conferences as well) then rankings don't make much sense as ANY kind of measure, nor do their subsidiary measures such as strength of schedule. If there were NO rankings, what would we be saying at this point? I mean, we'd obviously still be on each other's case, but I think we'd have to be talking about ACTUAL (not "reputationally biased) quality of play, and I think there's a good chance we'd be realizing it's REALLY hard to predict who's going to beat who on any given Saturday. All I want for Christmas is a tournament for next year...Wow - I can't believe Stewart's whining with his "look how dedicated I am - please give me a compliment for my sacrifices" screed.
The truth is, Stewart so doesn't believe in the Big-12 he never expected to have to cover the Kansas - Mizzou game. If Kansas wasn't one of the last undefeateds left, and Mizzou had more than one loss, he wouldn't be there now.
Consider: Why would he plan to be in-flight during the entire LSU-Arkansas game, if he wasn't convinced LSU would win? (He said his flight landed just as the overtimes began, remember?) Already have the "LSU [and the SEC] is the King" column written, Stewart?
Otherwise, TAKE AN EARLIER FLIGHT, STEWART! (Maybe even take a flight the day before?)
Or was your decision (forced on you no doubt) to go to KC too late to get any other flights on a Thanksgiving weekend, since you never planned to actually watch a Big-12 game in the first place?
You do NOT have my sympathies for your "dedication". Because it, like you, Stewart, is a sham.LSU: Almost as good as Wisconsin.Charles:
I'll jump in here...I agree with you that the "home field" advantage would be great, but also agree with Gatorchomp about OSU. And don't underestimate their (and Tressel's) motivation to prove that last year was a fluke. I'd give LSU the nod 6 out of 10 times, but I really would be looking for all of them to be close games. Also, OSU travels PHENOMENALLY well...they'll have as many fans as any other team will. Now, if we could only get some bowl games up here in January! Packers Stadium maybe?
Bucknut: Part of why I think it'd be a neat regular game is that it just "feels" like a good game...rough and rowdy on a regular basis. I also think WVU is here to stay, so might be a neat way to replace some weaker scheduling with tougher ones.Charles (and other LSU fans)...what's the latest on Dorsey? Seemed like he was in pain, but not the back or the knee. He's great to watch so I hope he's not hurt too bad...but man he's big so gotta believe the knees and back are always going to be Achilles Heel's.Well, my Tigers lost a game that I expected to be close, but them to win.
Congratulations Arkansas, you earned this win.
That, however, will not stop me from uttering once again (whether or not it was me referred to above or not) . . .
Geaux Tigres! Win the SEC Championship and the Sugar Bowl!Ho hum...all this talk about the "conferences". Let's face it people, conferences don't win titles (national or otherwise) or games. And here's another little tidbit....LSU has an outstanding football team, but was outplayed today by a very athletic,determined group of Razorbacks who unfortunately didn't play to their potential this year. With that said,do the Pigs beat the Tigers without McFadden, Jones and Co.?? Probably not, but let's give the 'Backs credit for an over the top effort. Oh, one more thing...If Darren McFadden doesn't win the Trophy this year, well...I think you get my drift.By the way, Happy Thanksgiving to everybody!
Sas, hope your weekend is going well!Call it sour grapes, but I think we all lost something when Mich was beaten by Ap St, when USC lost to Stanford, and even when OSU lost to Ill and LSU to Ark. The titans were replaced. Replaced by Kans over Cent Mich, Missou over Ill, Hawaii over Nev and Boise St over ??? The Mich/OSU game was of little interest outside of Mich/OSU. And where were the Tex/OSU type games or real national interest? What we see now are efforts to win the conf, thus assuring a BCS bowl, and scheduling some of the weakest ooc teams possible in order to enhance the claim for the NC. Call it sour grapes if you choose.I am so glad to see LSU Choke they have been over-rated all season and have finally lost!!! Their luck has ran out, unless Hester was their QB, he saved their _ss all season. McFadden for Heisman, Tebow should not even get a chance on a 3 loss team! Beanie 2008 Go Buckeyes!!! The Ohio State University vs. West Virginia call me out on it STEW!Stopping at Applebee's does show dedication because that place is nasty.Happy Thanksgiving to you, Larry, and yours.
Actually, the weekend is going quite well, other than the one disappointment.
I, and I think LSU, will survive, though.
Good Luck to your Bucks, Larry.for Larry - I am not an LSU fan. When I look at their ooc schedule for next year I become even less of an LSU fan. Of the ones left standing before this weekend I had hoped they would play OSU for the NC, because I thuoght they were the two best. Now I'm pointed towards WV and OSU, although I doubt that WV will be able to stand with OSU.I have a question. When Ohio State plays:
USC 2008 & 2009
Miami 2010 & 2011
Cal 2012 & 2013
VaTech 2014 & 2015
Oklahoma 2016 & 2017
what are all of you haters gonna talk about? You wont have a supposedly easy schedule to whine about. And besides didnt we just play Texas the last two years? To the wire the year they won the Championship and beat em last year.Let's see here, just for kicks, if LSU were placed in the title game, can someone name a team outside the SEC that you seriously think could beat them? If so, you're kidding yourself. See scoreboard of the title game last year for all Big Ten fans.Charles:
Oops. Sorry about that. What IS your affiliation, though? Not sure I can think of it. But wouldn't it be nice to have at least a good portion of teams from the major conference have killer schedules? No real easy wins, but basically just tough OOC games to show their mettle.
Should be a wild game tomorrow. I'm outta here for the evening (gotta get back with the family...y'all know what I'm talking about) so good night all and safe travels this weekend!Oorah BUCKNUT this is BEANIEMAN asking a question??? Is LSU the first team to ever be ranked #1 twice in the same season and choke twice in the same season at that ranking yeah thats what i thought...Everyone say what you will about Ohio State's schedule. I don't see any SEC teams going out of conference early to play tough games. Look at the Buckeyes the past three years, a home and home with Texas, and a cross-country trip to Washington this year. And then next year, a trip to USC in week 3, then again agsinst USC in '09 at the shoe. In '10 Miami comes to town. No SEC teams do this at all!!! Don't try to say well, we play a tougher conference schedule either, 2 losses in a conference year in year out should get you nothing!!
Ohio State is a different team than last year, a year removed it from heisman winner, and 7 nfl draftees... and yet they are much better than last years version.
My prediction for NCG: Ohio St. vs. the best 2-loss team standingThis post has been removed by the author.Charles,
Ok . . now I'm confused. You have blogged for months about the weakness of OSU's schedule . . and the strength of OSU's . . . and now you think OSU is one of the best two teams . . and WVU, too?
Ok . . .
As for LSU's future schedules . . still in flux. Two TBD's next year. I would hope they try for USC or OSU or another preranked powerhouse, don't you?
The incentive for OOC play of "creampuffs" as you call them will not change until we either have a playoff or the BCS decides to reverse their weight of 2/3 to human polls.
Just my humble opinion.
SasEnough, already with the stuff about "my conference is better than your conference." Let's take a look at some stats, then draw your own conclusions.
Here are the conference records to date against top 25 opponents.
Big East 12-8 .600
SEC 25-29 .463
ACC 14-19 .424
Big 10 10-14 .417
Pac 10 13-21 .382
Big 12 11-27 .289
Mt. West 1-6 .143
CUSA 0-9 .000
WAC 0-17 .000
While the Big East has the best percentage, the SEC, ACC, Big 10 and Pac 10 are bunched together.
But when you consider that the SEC has played far more games against top 25 opponents (54), sixteen more than the next closest conference (Big 12) and THIRTY more such games than the Big 10 - well, as I said - draw your own conclusions about who plays the higher level of competition on a regular basis.
That being said, this is a ridiculous way to decide who is best. It's time for the NCAA to institute a playoff system of AT LEAST 16, and preferably 24 teams. The six major conferences and the two highest ranked of the MW, CUSA and WAC should get a bye, with the next 16 playing for a spot. The current bowls could be used for the playoffs, with the major bowls rotating the quarterfinals, semifinals and championship game.
It's the ONLY way to decide competitively who is best, in the confines of the tournament, just like basketball.
Just my humble opinion.Sorry, I have to respond to one last post...
To JP: I think LSU would have a tough game against OSU, WVU, USC, KU, Missouri, and others. And no, I'm NOT kidding myself. I'm looking at the present, not the past. LSU has a really good team, but I don't think there are ANY elite teams this year, but rather a lot of parity across the top 20 or so teams. Put LSU against any of the teams above in a neutral (non LA) venue and I think you've got a great ball game on your hands.Charles,
Meant "strength of LSU's schedule" before . . my bad.
Larry: *laugh*
Sasdarren mcfadden is my favorite player outside of lsu so it sucks rooting against him even though he stomped on lsu. i knew this was going to happen eventually to the tigers and it hurts really bad. but i honestly think lsu will make it to the championship game. kansas and missouri will play in the crap bowl tomorrow and whoever wins that will be beaten by oklahoma. west virginia will lose probably because anything can happen at this point. this loss woke the tigers up so that next week they will kill georgia. oregon will lose because they dont have dennis dixon. and that will set the stage for lsu and osu to play in the title. oh and just for the schneid. GEAUX TIGERS!darren mcfadden is my favorite player outside of lsu so it sucks rooting against him even though he stomped on lsu. i knew this was going to happen eventually to the tigers and it hurts really bad. but i honestly think lsu will make it to the championship game. kansas and missouri will play in the crap bowl tomorrow and whoever wins that will be beaten by oklahoma. west virginia will lose probably because anything can happen at this point. this loss woke the tigers up so that next week they will kill georgia. oregon will lose because they dont have dennis dixon. and that will set the stage for lsu and osu to play in the title. oh and just for the schneid. GEAUX TIGERS!Charles
quit acting like you own this blog. all you do is argue about how teams outside the sec have weak schedules. stfu already, we've read your bitching all season long.Why is it that all SEC fans take credit for Florida beating Ohio State last year. LSU fans say that they would beat Ohio State this year because Florida did last year. What does last years game have to do with anything? If thats your logic than since Boise State beat Oklahoma last year that means Utah State could beat Oklahoma this year right? I mean since one SEC team can beat Ohio State last year and one WAC team can beat Oklahoma last year that means those entire conferences can beat those specific teams a year later. That makes total sense.First Thing, Ga could not make it to the NC if they do not play (let alone win) the SEC championship game. I remember last year when everyone (especially the voters) stated the OSU-Michigan game was the game of the century and change their votes to let Florida in because Michigan was the "second" best team in the conference. So how would Georgia be allowed into the NC if they don't even play the SEC Championship game? If voters allow that to occur, it is very hypocritical against the Big Ten (and no, I do not care about the Florida whipping as the justification).
Again, why are the SEC fans hating about the current scenario. All the SEC teams have 2 losses now. But I concur that a team with 2 losses do not play the NC unless every team (in all conferences and indepedents) has 2 losses. SOS is relative (which I have posted during the early SEC schedule) and
are based on rankings of team by VOTERS. Even the Big Ten's "down" year shows a team that stands out in the conference and SEC plays some crappy teams on their schedules. Currently, there is none in the SEC who stand out and no one could make case for SEC and not apply the same way for the Big Ten (both have "easy" schedule team played).
I think a Big 12 and Big East ending but I rather see a Big Ten in there instead of a Big East. Why? Just to show the Big Ten conference is not as bad as many people think. Heck, I am Buffalo Bulls/UMich fan... BTW, with Lloyd Carr leaving, I would not be surprised with Bo staying at LSU with Les Mile going to Wolverines... And Turner Gill could go to Nebraska? Interesting scenario...Ohio State, Michigan, West Virginia, Kansas or any other team outside of the SEC conference couldn't carry the jock of any SEC team. The SEC is by far the toughest conference in the country.
Mike Griffin2005 miami was supposed to be the third hurricane to wipe out lsu. 2006 lsu shouldn't have been mentioned in the same sentence as notre dame. look what happened. when january comes around just watch a 100% lsu team wanting to prove something. its not gonna end up pretty for the opposing team.Neither Kansas or West Virginia have beaten a good team. The Humane Society would stop the game in the first half if either of them had to play USC right now. The BCS is a joke, USC, OSU, and Florida are the toughest teams.Eh Les doesent deserve Michigan... and Les loses to OSUHA-HA-HA! Geaux Hogs! and GO (away) Les Miles.as an lsu fan i must say that i am releaved that they are out of the nc picture. it has been very frustrating and disappointing to watch a team w/so much talent strugle from wk to wk against far less talented opponents.no team can win a nc w/a 2nd half qb & in particular 4th qt. flynn ranks as one of lsu worse qb(jamie martin)in history.hope after les is gone, the next head coach run a spread offense W/ryan p.as an lsu fan i must say that i am releaved that they are out of the nc picture. it has been very frustrating and disappointing to watch a team w/so much talent strugle from wk to wk against far less talented opponents.no team can win a nc w/a 2nd half qb & in particular 4th qt. flynn ranks as one of lsu worse qb(jamie howard)in history.hope after les is gone, the next head coach run a spread offense W/ryan p.Beanieman,
Actually, the #1 team has lost twice in a season with that ranking three times in history, so LSU is not the first.
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Just for argument's sake, here's 10 things I think:
1. Arguing about future or current performance based on prior years is stupid and nonproductive, as most of the players (and sometimes the coaching staffs) are no longer at the respective schools that incurred said results.
2. Arguing about what constitutes a "good" or "quality" loss is for whiners and losers. Last I checked, the system rewards those who win, and punishes those who lose. Arguing that your team should not be penalized as much "because it was a good loss" does not replace that fact.
3. Just because your favorite team lost does not mean that any other team ranked higher than said team is "overrated" or "undeserving of their ranking due to soft schedule." All teams control the conference that they play in, and also control all out of conference games. If these teams wanted to schedule easier competition, they should change affiliations.
4. Just because a Playstation simulation said that your team should win 8 out of 10 times does not mean that your team would actually win 8 out of 10 times.
5. You are is abbreviated as you're, not your.
6. They are is abbreviated as they're, not there or their.
7. Polls, like women, are fickle, subjective, and have little reasoning behind any or all actions. They can change their mind at any time, for any reason, and there's not much a fan can do about it.
8. Darren McFadden is the best football player in the country, while Tim Tebow utilizes his system the best.
9. The media (at least the national media) does not "hate" or "root against" your particular conference or team. It is their job to report opinon and fact that create interest in their publications and programs, but none have any personal bias toward your team, or their conference, so give it a rest.
10. Finding something nasty to say about other fans that has nothing to do with football simply shows ignorance and desperation. Resorting to the Civil War, race relations, or questioning someone's education simply is unnecessary.
Just my thoughts.
Oh, and go Bucks.Stewart: As the best SEC team, LSU will still be in the title game, right? I mean they lost to the best 4-loss team in the country on their home turf.
SEC RULES!!!!!Stewart: As the best SEC team, LSU will still be in the title game, right? I mean they lost to the best 4-loss team in the country on their home turf.
SEC RULES!!!!!Stewart: As the best SEC team, LSU will still be in the title game, right? I mean they lost to the best 4-loss team in the country on their home turf.
SEC RULES!!!!!bgault - Hilarious. Have to agree with you although it is hard for me to do. Go Blue!Hey Wisemen,
Riddle me this is LSU the first team to ever be ranked #1 twice in the same season and choke twice in the same season at that ranking yeah thats what i thought...When LSU Choked the SEC Choked, still McFadden for heisman>>>>Ohio State, Michigan, West Virginia, Kansas or any other team outside of the SEC conference couldn't carry the jock of any SEC team. The SEC is by far the toughest conference in the country.
So please explain to me why last year I watched amy beloved SEC team win the national championship and this year the SEC probably won't be represented in the Big Dance? If what you say is true we should be clamoring for a better way to select a national champion.for sasquatch - I base my comments on the rankings of those that likely know much more than I do. According to them LSU has beaten many more ranked teams (when they played) than OSU. I think if both teams rested for 51 days and played in Phoenix that LSU would win, but the reality of it is that LSU did not do enough this season to please the experts and OSU possibly did. Kansas is ranked higher than OSU. Do you seriously think Kansas is a match for OSU? I don't always agree with the experts, but they may send Kansas against WV in the NC. I think OSU is better than both, but what I think doesn't count. Stew gets blasted for shifting positions as the season develops, but I don't see a shift as necessarily being a contradiction.for Ben - I thought I owned this blog as much as anyone else. Sorry for disturbing you any more than you already are.for Gatorchomp - The SEC may be the best conference and they may have the best team in the country. But I don't think anyone outside the SEC is convinced of that.
What is funny is that LSU may be the best team and the Sugar Bowl has the last pick of BCS teams. It's time for us to focus on the bowls and hoping the SEC doesn't falter there. We'll hear about it for a long time if they do.Charles,
I was commenting on your take that OSU and WVU were the NGC teams.
Actually, and even as a Tiger fan, I think the pollsters have been kind to LSU this year. I would have expected them to drop more than they did after the Kentucky loss.
I will know more about Kansas tomorrow. I like to see play, not polls.
Right now, I think Mizzou is very dangerous.
SasCharles-
I agree that from top to bottom the SEC is the strongest conference but you'll have to convince me that the best team in the country is an SEC team. USC's thrashing of Arizona State is the most convincing win that I've seen in several weeks.thanks for understanding that its not all about what conference you play in. as a die hard ohio state fan i believe big ten to be one of the toughest conferences. but like you said if you cant pull through your competition then your outta here!for gatorchomp - I hesitate to say this as I have already upset too many people with my idiotic observations, but I think USC may be the best team. What I keep coming back to is last year. A rigorous schedule made Fla appear underserving towards the end of the season (ditto USC). Given rest both teams rebounded nicely. Fla beat up LSU badly in their game this year and LSU has not been the same since. If we had playoffs and time to rest my money would be on LSU and USC. USC seems to be coming together. I would place Fla third as I think they are highly talented and coached. OSU would be troublesome because of Tressel, but I don't think he has quite the talent developed for this year. Meyer may not either BTW. Add four more to fill out 8 teams but I think they are just fillers.
To find out people say that's why we play the games. But in college football we often don't play the games and we're reduced to guessing what Hawaii or Kansas might have done if they played a representative schedule.Charles - Florida third? Maybe you had a brain fart because I would think GA would be ahead of them, especially with the way they are playing. Also, I don't think the others would be just filler teams. I think WVU would compare well to any of those teams, and possibly Mizzou.I love the parity now evident in the NCAA. Since the scholarship limitation policy was enacted, many more of those "other" teams have been crashing the party held by the 15-20 traditional power/elite programs. This year has been great. The available talent has been distributed more evenly, so it boils down to coaching, team chemistry, and injuries. The traditional programs are still able to pull in a lot of talent, but the gap is narrowing and that's a good thing.
Now we need a play off system for D1.JAMARCUS RUSSELL carried this team for a long time.
I saw the LSU offensive line and defensive line get dominated the whole 1st half by MIDDLE TENNESSEE.
If you look back at all these games LSU had problems but they never controlled the line of scrimmage like a top 5 team should have.
ripefx from louisianaStewart, you said, "...if you can't make it through your schedule with less than two losses, you're not national championship material." Well, that's only true if, in fact, the conference in question doesn't actually have the best teams in the country. I'm not saying the SEC either does or doesn't, but if only one thing has been made clear this season, it's that you sports writers and other pollsters don't have a clue as to which teams are better than other teams. So, until a true playoff is created to allow the teams to decide on the field which is the best, we'll never really have a true national champion team. So, Stewart... get a clue and go back to reporting the news instead of trying to control it. :DFootball in SEC land and in Texas is just as popular and corrupt as religion. How else do you explain the officiating? Just look at the favorable calls and spots that teams like LSU and Texas routinely receive. It's hard to lose with that advantage, even when you play poorly. Yet they both blew it today. The conferences clearly try to guarantee getting the maximum 2 BC$ berths a year.
Meanwhile, the officiating and fans on the west coast are not that great. The teams are though. So, the bad officiating must not be for $ because they've been detrimental to the favorites. As result, the PAC 10 beats itself up and good teams self-destruct?I believe that comments about SEC supiorority will come mainly from two sets of SEC fans (possibly a third). Hasn't anyone noticed that these come from PLAYERS and FANS of schools that are pre-season favorites, yet have to find a reason to explain why their team can't get up and win every single game (like any other team in any other conference in the country). I am a die-hard Auburn fan, and was embarrassed by the Florida Gator players for comments about the SEC on national TV last year following the Title game. They and LSU seem to read from the same smack talk novel. The SEC may be the most respected conference based on how they play on the field, but player and fan actions on TV and blogs show that they are certainly underserving of that respect, which ultimately makes them their own underachievers. I had LSU pegged at 2 losses pre-season and Florida with 5, and Stewart I had my hand raised when you asked "who saw Arkansas beating LSU in September", I felt it in August.
And by the way, the other team attempting to join the list is UGA, based on a direct reflection of who they have as a coach (look at where he came from). If the SEC wants to earn it's dominance, Richt, Meyers and Miles need to take lessons from Spurrier and Tuberville, and start respecting the entire sport rather than being 80% trash talking.WVU deserves the NC game if they win out, their only loss being on the road to a Ranked ,
soon to be 9-3 USF team.
WVU played without their QB in the 2nd half ofthat game.
Beating Cincinnati, UCONN, Miss State, Maryland, Louisville, Rutgers, is enough 4 meIf the officials had correctly ruled on the fumble by Illinois' Daniel Dufrene after an 80 yard draw play no one would be questioning the Buckeyes shot at the BCS Championship.Charles-
My Gators #3?--while I wish that it were true I just don't think that we're that good this year. Our defense is far to porous. We are perhaps #2 or 3 in the SEC but I would love another shot at LSU and Auburn.
The BCS NC game should be interesting because the best teams in the country probably won't be playing in it! Perhaps USC and LSU can be convinced to play their own NC on the side.>>>Cincinnati, UCONN, Miss State, Maryland, Louisville, Rutgers, is enough 4 me
That's a list of real football juggernauts!"Coming from a dedicated Buckeye fan, Les Miles has done a fantastic job at LSU. If the 2002 National Champion "Luckeyes" played the schedule LSU did this season, there is no chance the Bucks go to the Fiesta Bowl and beat Miami."
Billy, you're wrong on about 3 different things here, all of which make me question your dedication as a Buckeye fan.
1) I don't know of any Buckeye fan that uses "Luckeyes" to describe the 2002 team.....in fact, the only people I hear that from are people who hate on OSU.
2) The 2002 Ohio State team played a phenomenally difficult schedule. That team beat 3 teams that finished in the top 10, including champions of both the Pac 10(Washington State) and the Big East(Miami). They also defeated 6 teams that finished the season ranked in the top 25, and 8 that finished in the top 30. In addition, they went undefeated in a Big Ten that went 5-2 in bowl games that year.
3) Les Miles is a great recruiter, but his game-day coaching leaves much to be desired. And you'll never see a return of the Ten Year War, because a significant portion of the animosity came from the fact that Bo was a former OSU coach. Les Miles has always been a "Michigan Man", so there's not as much familiarity and hatred.>>>If the officials had correctly ruled on the fumble by Illinois' Daniel Dufrene after an 80 yard draw play no one would be questioning the Buckeyes shot at the BCS Championship.
The Buckeye's big mistake was allowing the game to come down to that call (or allowing Illinois to have the ball for 13 minutes of the 4th quarter).last years bowl games big east 5-0 cant argue with that! as for the guy that says any other conference cant hold the jock strap of the sec, the same kids that was freshman at wvu and whipped georgia in the sugar bowl two years ago are now only juniors, you folks better hold on, as for osu-wvu if you think florida did a number on osu defense last year in ncg, wvus coach is the god father of the spread offense, i dont think osu has ever seen the speed that wvu has, it would be bad, every team has one fast dude but wvu there all fast! ignorant fast!anyhow go bucksI don't know why Mizzou doesn't get better press. They've played a much tougher schedule than Kansas (who didn't play OU or Texas Tech). Mizzou will put it together against an iffy OU team at a neutral site. Now that I live in Ohio, it'll be fun to watch Buckeye fans crying in their beer during the NC game.Christopher-
Had Mizzou defeated Oklahoma they would probably be receiving more favorable press. The only thing drawing favorable attention to Kansas is the perfect record.
Personally I do not see how the winner of tomorrow's game is going to defeat a healthy Oklahoma even if the game is played on the deck of an aircraft carrier in the Bering Sea. Neither team has the horses particularly when OU's defense will have their ears pinned back.I've followed college football for 50 years and I can never remember a time when a 2-loss champ was ever a possibility. Maybe someone else can.
I read that if OSU goes to the NC that there may be no Big Ten ranked highly enough to replace it. Only Illinois might slip through if enough teams above it lost. If that is not a sign of a bad year for the Big Ten I don't know what is. And the fact that some major confs cannot produce even a 1-loss team is another sign.
It wasn't until 1986 or so that the legitimacy of a top ranked team was even questioned in my recall. That was because BYU kept getting raised in the voting by default. I think voters ranked them so hoping a loss would derail them but it didn't happen. They ended up playing a poor Michigan team in an early bowl. The voting following that year suggested a backlash against schools playing such weak schedules. It wasn't until the BCS was established that the small fry threatened law suits unless special rules were established to aid their cause.
The small fry can get up for a big game each season. TCU beat OK two years ago and Tex Tech last year. Boise also beat OK. Utah beat Pitt one year. But until they can at least manage the kind of schedule Utah put together this season and beat two or three strong teams in a season they remain small fry crying to be recognized as big, but wanting only to play in small ponds until a big bowl. Waiting until they think they have a good team and then trying to schedule a worthy opponent as Hawaii did this year doesn't cut it. But that is not how the voters see it. BTW Hawaii is now a true champion as it just beat a highly ranked team.The reason W. Va. is ahead of OSU is the same as it always is: when they lost!! Why was OSU (or anyone with a loss) better than Kansas up to now? Same reason (as Stewart says) the AP 1 or 2 always makes the "Big" game. Preseason polls. Lets face it, the Poll system stinks! (and, yes, I know the AP poll is out of the BCS formula!) If they want to fix this, they have to start by eliminating ALL polls before week 6, as well as eliminating the automatic bids. That would help eliminate what will happen this year, when undefeated Hawaii and 1 loss Kansas are going to get left out in favor of 2 and 3 (Illinois?) loss teams. Strenghth of Schedule is overrated. There is no way to rate it until the season is over, anyway. By the way, I'm a 25 year Oregon fan, and until now I"ve NEVER been ashamed of my team! But for Bellotti to send that kid out there knowing his condition is almost criminal. Maybe Phil Knight told him it wuld be alright.Anybody notice it's Groundhog Day for Texas this year? In 2006, they were a decent team and they lose three games: against Oklahoma (well, nothing to be ashamed of) but also to two other teams they have no business losing to: Kansas State and Texas A&M. And they pull off big comebacks against Oklahoma State and Nebraska. So what does Texas do in 2007? Exactly the same thing! For anybody who missed last season, Mack Brown brought us 2007. I see no progress in this team since last year and the "kids" are not ready and amped-up for game day. Maybe they need a Mark Richt-style "intervention".Today is a tough day in Tiger Country. As we took that slow walk down the ramp, a walk that felt like a funeral march, I couldn't help but wonder what kind a negative ignorant typical b.s. I was gonna read in this post. YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK. Whatever happened to sportsmanship? This has been one of the best seasons of college football ever and all you people do is bad mouth other teams, other coaches, your own teams and coaches...pathetic. Les Miles is a good coach and the only risky call this year was the pass at the end of the Auburn. Need I remind people the the all of his fourth down tries were required to win? And Stewart...you're partly to blame. You have beaten the LSU drum all season and when they lose to Arkansas, in 3 ot (since it obviously takes more than 60 min to beat LSU), you drop them like a girlfriend who farts in bed. I understand and I agree, a 2 lose team does not deserve to be the National Champion. LSU fans, real LSU fans, and the players themselves never asked anybody to vote for them or rank them or say they're better than anybody else, they just want to play football. Those guys came out this season and fought hard for 12 great games only to be bad mouthed by fans across the country. LSU is battle tested and have won many of those battles, but couldn't win the total war. The SEC is the toughest conference to play in week after week, I don't care who you are or where you're playing...hands down the SEC is tough. And all you people do is decide who's better based on what these damn sportswriters say and your own biased opinions. Any LSU fans that blast the Tigers and their coaching staff should be drawn and quartered. Where's your loyalty? This is what has happened in the past: LSU is hyped up by media or fans, LSU loses a game, the fans turn on the team and coaches, the coach leaves, then we get stuck with a Mike Archer, Gerry Dinardo or Curly Hallman. Remeber those days? I'll take a Les Miles over those guys any day. How does Ark. beating LSU prove that the SEC is overhyped? Because Ark. has 4 loses? All four of their loses are to SEC teams. Arkansas is a good team and I feel they will prove it in a bowl this year. Hats off to McFadden, the only back this year to get 100 yards against an "overhyped" LSU defense and a strong canidate for the Heisman, he and the other Hogs fought hard and came out on top...barely. Oh, and the Heisman race? Looks like it will be won by a SEC player, don't deny it you know its true. Is the SEC better, who really knows? BUT WE ARE TOUGH AND WE ARE PROUD. One thing that this season does prove is that the talent in college football is sky-high across the country. Every conference can beat every conference, it's just that simple. So let's get past all this "my team can beat your team up" grade school crap and focus on the positives of our teams and enjoy the rest of this great season, because there is plenty of smash-mouth football left for this Tiger fan to enjoy, no matter what conference is playing.God SEC fans are lame. LSU loses to a team with FOUR losses (but, here come the little baby tears) but all four were to SEC teams. And Kentucky WAS a super power when they beat LSU earlier in the year. Face it, the SEC is filled with talented individual players but there are no great, solid TEAMS in the conference this year.
And now, Les Miles will leave the greatest team in the greatest conference ever created by God for the backwater of Michigan with all of those slow, talentless players. Maybe it was the murder rate that he didn't like.This post has been removed by the author.This post has been removed by the author.I am a true LSU fan. I have to give take my hat off to Arkansas. They wanted it more. I felt McFadden played very well but the game ball goes to Casey Dick. He made the plays when he had to. To the talk about the SEC and the schedule, we had our chance to go to the NCG. I do feel that the SEC top to bottom is the best conference, but you have to give credit to Kansas, Missour, Ohio St, and West Virginia. This will be a great day to watch all the games. I wish them the best of luck. Last I want to say that I am tired of hearing that Les Miles is not a good coach. You do not win the number of games he has won without being a good coach. Talent alone will not win you that many games.for jdux - You are right, all subjective determinations should be dropped. Right now with two undefeated teams they play for the NC. The other 8 BCS slots can be filled with 1-loss teams. Since we have too few 1-loss teams put the names of 2-loss teams in a hat and randomly draw. Same system works for the NC if there are 4 undefeated teams. No subjectivity, no bias, no brains. But a great idea.As an OSU grad, I would also love it if Les Miles went to UM!The teams of every conference schedule and beat up on cupcakes OOC or, at least, the elite ones do, so where is the measuring stick? Obviously, there isn't one or we wouldn't have these juvenile and moronic arguments over whose conference is better. What we get instead is pure conjecture from a bunch of homers who are team first and conference second as well as writers and TV pundits pandering to marketing graphs and A.C. Nielsen ratings.
And, while we're all staring at the shiny objects within these arguments, this bull**** championship series persists because college football fans are, by nature, divided along team and conference loyalties and, thus, ripe for easy manipulation. In other words...cattle. Enjoy it because you're stuck with it. It will be so hysterical to hear all the griping and whining by college football fans everywhere when we have a WVU vs Kansas/Missouri title game. It should be settled on the field by the young men who battle through the blood, sweat, tears, and pain for 3 months, beating the crap out of each other, instead of lethargic, couch-dwelling a-holes.Isn't this a great opportunity to discuss a playoff? USC certainly is playing well enough to make it ot the national championship game right now and would probably win it, but they got off to a slow start.
A playoff, even involving just the 8 teams that make it to the BCS would certainly eliminate any "fears" of a Kansas, WVU, Missouri, etc. national championship, unless they earned it on the field, instead of in the eyes of a computer.
As for the old time discussion that this would interfere with academics, most of the schools have already started school again by the time that the national championship game is played anyway. Those teams are already missing the first week of the new semester. Start the other games the week before New Years and there you go. OSU in the national championship game would be disappointing again, as they will have another 6 or so weeks to think about the game and not have any game experience. The timing issue is a bunch of crap. (Plus, what is more important to an institution of higher learning, one or two students who don't do as well because they were playing football, or the millions that they can bring a school by doing well in a national championship game?)Ohio St. was good until they ran into an SEC team in the tile game....what was that final score???Mike -
re: 2002 Buckeyes - yeah, they played a tough scedule, but if they'd met USC - who had Big 10 "giant" Iowa moving backward in every second half drive of the Orange Bowl, Ohio State would have one less NC. LSU didn't steal a title from SC, OSU did.Stewart -
love the description! Oregon was great, the White Out was great - now, with "every bar and restaurant was closed at 5:20 PM on Friday" describes the Midwest to a "t."The SEC was good last year, until they ran into the Big Ten in bowl games. What was their record again? 1-2I think LSU fans are falling into a familiar trap. If only they had a different coach, national championships would just grow on trees. In recent memory, the only team that has consistently performed is USC. There is always some element of luck involved especially given the increased parity in the game.Les Miles is being maligned undeservedly. His fourth down decisions against Florida kept the ball in LSU's hands, Florida off the field. His decision to pass on third down with 8 seconds to play against Auburn won the game. I know there was only 1 second to play when the play was whistled dead, but Byrd (the receiver) hit the ground with 4 seconds left and if time had inadvertently run out, it would have been reviewed and LSU would have had a chance to kick the 42 yard field goal. Against Kentucky, in overtime, he did not make it on fourth and 2 yard to go. I hear pundits saying this is proof his "gambling style" failed. In overtime, you have to match or exceed your opponents points scored. Kentucky had scored 6 points. What were LSU's options, kick a field goal and lose by 3 or go for it on fourth down.
As far as Arkansas, LSU played its heart out. Dorsey, Beckwith, Steltz were all banged up (along with others. LSU lost the game in the first half when they had great field position and only scored 6 points.
Thank you Les Miles and LSU for a great season, thus far. Everyone in the nation, would agree LSU has created great drama and excitement........BEfor alan - You are overlooking USC. They played Nebr, Ark & ND last year all three had to be taken seriously. They played ND & Nebr this year and both of those schools were unable to challenge. But to try to play two or three big schools and fail, as USC did this year, is a far cry from putting all your eggs in one basket, as OSU did with Wash.
There are a few other examples of good efforts. Aub played USF and, what K-State?
Of the four ooc games I think BCS schools should be expected by voters to play two BCS teams that are not traditional bottom feeders. If not, and they follow the OSU (Wash), Fla (FSU), LSU (Va Tech) pattern of trying to get one good game they should know if there single game effort fails, as with Wash, voters will be encouraged to give consideration with teams with more losses, but a tougher schedule.
Voters should be reviewed. When they go against a trend and show favoritism or bias there should be warnings and eventual loss of voting privileges. Something needs to be done about the computers not ranking Hawaii and voters putting them high. Both the computer programmers and the voters should be fed the same guidelines. Perhaps a panel of experts, with some input from the fans, should sit down and decide what all should be fed.
Many will say I am an idiot or biased, but I think after the 8th game or so schools should not be ranked a lot higher than the best schools they have beaten. The positions should be earned as someone said, and not based on paper evaluations.for Alexander - You are right. The SEC was good last year in the bowls. Their top three teams dominated their opponents, and their four lower bowl teams went 2 - 2 against the rest. If this year the top three Big Ten teams dominate their games, and four others go 2 - 2 you will say that the Big Ten is great. If the top two SEC teams get trampled, one by a Big Ten team, and I pop up to say that the two Big Ten losses were against middle of the road SEC teams and thus the SEC is better you would say I am an idiot. Right?So much for the "penultimate" day of the "penultimate" week of college football, Stewart. (There just aren't enough students of classical grammar writing about college football anymore, are there?)
The Arkansas-LSU game definitely lived up to the hype. I don't see LSU losing 2 of 3 or 3 of 5 to Arkansas, but today the hogs were the better team... by just enough to win. BTW, by showcasing the breadth and depth of talent in the SEC, this game probably accomplished more in the way of "PR" than all the bickering and dissing of other conferences and programs that we've seen and heard from SEC fans this year. Congrats to both teams for great efforts and a thrilling finish, especially under the intense pressure of three OT series!
Elsewhere: Wasn't it was great to see Dennis Franchione go out with a big win over Texas? Much as LSU, the Longhorns had been living on the edge for most of the season. Without the almost-weekly fourth-quarter heroics of Jamaal Charles and Colt McCoy, UT could easily have been a five or six loss team, right now. Suspect and inconsistent throughout the season, Texas always seemed to get the breaks (or the calls from the officials) they needed to pull off the 'win.' No wonder Mike Leach went on a rant about the Big 12 officiating -- For a few minutes, today, it looked as though the officials were trying to 'steal' THIS game from A & M.
Seeming ever the gentleman in victory or defeat, Dennis Franchione will be missed... and probably as much at Texas Tech as at A & M. From the looks of it, in recent seasons the Red Raiders have seemed to regard the Aggies as their biggest in-state rivals. Good luck and best wishes to "Coach Fran," wherever he might land.No Charles, you are an idiot regardless of what you say.Brad - Not many are so willing to exhibit the depth of their intelligence in a post as you are. It took courage for sure.One year, I considered myself a "Big 10 fan." Then I found myself rooting for Michigan, so I punched myself in the face. Pick ONE team, not 8, 10, 11, 12, or 13 (MAC only). And here's to Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Penn State losing to whomever they play (I pray a team from the Sun Belt is involved). GEAUX EAUXHIEAUX STATE.for Brad and a few others - Being disabled and mostly confined to a recliner after major lower back surgery I turn to low impact interests like poring over NCAA stats and team histories. Many bloggers out there know more about the game and about their teams so it is educational for me. Perhaps many of my positions are unpopular, but I enjoy presenting a body of evidence and trying to see if I can persuade a few to my way of thinking. It is perverse I know, and reminds me of watching All in the Family, waiting for Archie to call Edith a dingbat, but so enjoyable when I see that I have been called an idiot or a poop disturber (my personal favorite). Perhaps some of you will write back and suggest that my brain clearly was more in need of surgery than my back. I laugh just thinking about it. But when you're in fairly serious pain all of the time because the option is taking the addictive hard stuff the laughs are few. Still I can always count on Brad and a few others to provide them and for that I say 'thanks'.The SEC failed me, as a true SEC fan its time to crawl in a hole and leave this board forever.The ENTIRE base for SEC supremecy: Last years National Championship. That is it. I'm so tired of hearing about SEC all year long. Now, if you guys win all your bowl games, you may have something. But from what I have seen, the SEC has been no where near the hype. LSU has lost now to two teams with a four loss record; Ohio State has lost to one team with a three loss record who is now ranked in the top 20. However, both LSU's oppenents were from the SEC, so automatically, that makes LSU more deserving than Ohio State.
LSU wins the award of luckiest team in college football. And they have two losses. Enough said.
As a side note...one year ago, even most Florida fans did not think they could beat Ohio State. One year ago.
Beware the Buckeyes!One year, I considered myself a "Big 10 fan." Then I found myself rooting for Michigan, so I punched myself in the face. Pick ONE team, not 8, 10, 11, 12, or 13 (MAC only). And here's to Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Penn State losing to whomever they play (I pray a team from the Sun Belt is involved). GEAUX EAUXHIEAUX STATE.
Amen, brother. Conference homers are the worst thing to hit college football since Notre Dame fans.A proposed 8 team NCAA football seeding based on blending schedule
strength and winning %.
1. SEC Champ (LSU).
2. PAC 10 Champ (USC).
3. Big East Champ (West Va.).
4. Big 12 Champ (Oklahoma).
5. Big 10 Champ (Ohio State).
6. ACC Champ ( Va. Tech).
7. SEC R/U. ( Georgia).
8. BIG 12 R/U. (Missouri).
This assumes help for USC and Georgia. I also believe USC would
win the tournament based on form
displayed at year end.I read all the high and mighty LSU/SEC drivel yesterday.. oh man how this has to hurt all those ego's in the Bayou.Sorry Charles, you lost all credibility back when you thought USF was the best team in the country. It is unreal anyone could have mistaken USF as the best team in the country. Thanks for the sob story too.To the SEC fans out there who want to continue to cry about LSU losing...I have an earlier post you need to read. LSU lost to the better team yesterday, and the game was decided fairly. This is not to say Arkansas is a better team every day, but as Houston Nutt said, "For three hours, we were the best team in college football."
To my fellow Buckeye fans, shut your mouths. We aren't even in the NC game yet, and still need help. You're all acting like we've already won the crystal trophy, and that kind of attitude is what got our kids destroyed last year.
To LSU fans specifically (at least those of you who have been considerate this whole season), yesterday was a tough loss, and I hope your team has a chance to play in a major bowl game to showcase all that talent. To the jerks who have had no class all season about how great the Tigers (Tigres?) were, HA!
And, to all the people that want to insert their favorite two loss team into the fray as "if they wouldn't have started slow, they would have won the NC," ummm...most of those teams lost to unranked (and not even close to being ranked) opponents (Stanford?), so please, let it die. Oklahoma MIGHT have won if the stars had aligned, but they are NOT a good road team, and USC MIGHT have won if those same stars had aligned, but USC lost to the better team in Oregon. So I guess for our fantasy worlds, we need to say that IF Dennis Dixon doesn't get hurt, Oregon is hoisting the NC trophy, right?
Point is that to cry about how unfair it is that these teams aren't given a shot at the NC through a playoff is comical. Handle the business on the field, and when you have a situation like Auburn in '03, we'll talk. Otherwise, shut your pie holes.So apparently, according to a lot of the bitter USC/SEC types here, we should just start deciding the national championship based on reputation, recruiting rankings, the preseason polls etc, and ignore little details like losing 2 games in your own conference.
OK by me, if you guys want to retroactively give the 2006 national championship to Ohio State, who "everyone knew" was the best team prior to January 8, in the same way "everyone knows" that LSU and USC are really the best teams now.for Ashley - You must be thinking of someone else. I have never thought that USF was the best team in the state, much less in the country. FSU is second best, IMHO. Given rest and a tournament I have thought all year that LSU was best, and still do. USF got off to a good start, but it takes more than that for me to rate a school much higher than my normal view.hyde - Most of the comments I see about LSU are not claiming they deserve the championship, just that they may be the best team. The Colorado Rockies won the National League pennant but I saw few comments stating that they were the best team. I would place a good sum of money on a rested LSU against anyone, but maybe USC. It's just an opinion, and the worst part is that we have no playoffs to decide who might be most accurate.Ohio State doesn't deserve to play in the national championship game regardless of what their record is. Of course it's a great program under Tressel but they lost in November (to Illinois at home!!!), and their non-conference opponents were 1) Youngstown State 2) Kent State 3) Akron!!!! Are you kidding me, national champion contenders? Put a 2-loss team who played a decent slate and has some momentum in the BCS title game before the Buckeyes-they're average this year.I TOLD YOU, I TOLD YOU ALL...
WHAT IF LSU LOSES,
WHAT IF WV LOSES,
WHO KNOWS WHO IS GOING TO THE BCS LET ALONE ANY OF THE BOWL GAMES..
EVERYONE QUIT COMPLAINING AND ENJOY THIS GREAT SEASON OF WONDERFUL COLLEGE FOOTBALL. GO BUCKSI TOLD YOU, I TOLD YOU ALL...
WHAT IF LSU LOSES,
WHAT IF WV LOSES,
WHO KNOWS WHO IS GOING TO THE BCS LET ALONE ANY OF THE BOWL GAMES..
EVERYONE QUIT COMPLAINING AND ENJOY THIS GREAT SEASON OF WONDERFUL COLLEGE FOOTBALL. GO BUCKSIt should now be obvious just how weak the sec REALLY is. Maybe LSU and Florida fans should buy a ticket to the NC game and watch THE Ohio State Buckeyes play football. The sec teams are a flash in the pan, Ohio State competes EVERY year for titles.charles and idiot jafer,
GIVE ME A BREAK, LSU had a week off this season , do the little babies need more time to STOP A RUNNING GAME,
and idiot jafer, please check your references before you make a complete a## of yourself, the non conference schedule of the SEC ranked below that of the Big 10, You do not deserve to be making comments, you are a pretender!!!Your statement that "it doesn't matter what conference your in , if you give up two losses your not a national cahmpionship candidate is ludicrous. Kansas has never and will likely continue to NEVER have faced the likes of LSU, Florida, Ohio State, or Auburn. (this is coming from a Notre Dame fan not an SEC fan) Try having a 12 team playoff and test the validity of your two losses crap. I can't believe you actually get payed for spouting such child-like reasoning of W's nd L's being all that matters. Apply that to basketball and see how it has predicted a national champ orver the last 20 years!!!! PUSH FOR A PLAYOFF and take the playoff game out of the hands of biased coaches, and idiotic sports writers and lets see what happens. I can almost bet that Kansas could never go through 3 heavey weights to claim that title. You opinon is simply wrongheaded and silly.Good grief! There is a lot of juvenile posting in this thread! Don't any of you "fans" who only know how to be fans by dissing other teams know the old dictum "on any given Saturday, any team can beat any other team?" Have you forgotten that Appalachian State beat Michigan at Ann Arbor this year? That Stanford beat USC? Neither of those things "should have" happened. I'm proud of my Razorbacks for winning yesterday, but believe me, LSU is one fine football team. In a ten game series, I'd say LSU by 8 games to 2. Yesterday was decided by one play. One play. If Jones had not made the last half yard on the two-point try, and LSU had completed their two point pass, LSU would have won. Doesn't anyone understand how narrow the real margin between winning and losing is? About ten or twelve years ago Arkansas had one of those miserable 4-7 seasons. There were five games decided by one play. Than means that out of the 1400 to 1500 plays run in a single season, changing five plays would have changed Arkansas from a bottom feeder to a 9-2 top ten team.
Any team that wins all of it's games has to be good, but it also has to be lucky. Can a two loss team still be the best team? Absolutely! Is LSU at 10-2 a better college team than Hawaii at 11-0? Almost certainly. Could Hawii beat LSU? Sure. Is Ohio State a great progam with a very good team this year? No doubt. Are they better than LSU? I don't know. Those are two grand programs with very good coaches and very good players. If they played one another, one of them would be better - that day. Arkansas was better than LSU - yesterday. And that's all, just yesterday.
The point is, fans attach way more meaning to records than records deserve. Who is the best football team is a quantitative question with a subjective answer.
Enjoy the sport. Root for your team. I have for over 50 years, and there have been wonderful and awful moments. LSU is undergoing an awful moment right now, but I really salute the sportsmanship that their fans are showing on this blog.Charles, I'm all in favor of a playoff, but that's not the system we have. I'm just curious about the sudden interest in everyone's strength of schedule. Miami won several national championships playing a Big East schedule and I don't recall anyone ever suggesting they were invalid.
The problem with the case for LSU is that now it's happened twice. How many other teams in the history of college football have lost 2 games in the same season while ranked #1? They got a second chance that hardly anyone ever gets (it's rare for a 1-loss team to ever be #1 during the regular season) and still couldn't take advantage. I'm sure their fans still think they're better than WVa, OSU, Kansas, and Missouri, but LSU has now lost twice to teams that are inferior to all 4 of those so-called pretenders.
LSU had a tough schedule this season, but 3 teams have won the BCS title playing similar schedules, so it's not like it's impossible for a great team to get through the SEC unscathed. I just think LSU has proven it's not a great team. Sometimes the preseason polls are wrong.I just wish the sec had some better teams (ones that are good enuff for the nc game) That way the Buckeyes could shut there trap.
Deal with it, the Buckeys are going to the nc game....no sec team is!Has anyone else but me noticed that a mere 2 weeks ago, Stewart Mandel, a guy that's blessed to make a living as a college football writer, proclaimed that our "national nightmare" had ended because Ohio State had been eliminated from title contention after their loss to Illinois? When I read that I realized that this is an "expert" who does not even take the time to analyze, with any depth whatsoever, what's going on in his profession. He just irresponsibly wields the authority of his position and deigns that things will happen in such and such a way and that so and so team is superior, and blah blah blah. But when it comes down to it, he's not even much of a student of the game. If I've said it once, I'll say it again, there is very little about this season that is surprising. Just because every "expert" prognosticator is wrong, does not mean that things are unpredictable. Instead, it simply means that the experts aren't experts at all. They're just overpaid, overrated con men who don't really do their jobs. Sorry Stewart, you seem like a pretty nice guy, but whether they make it to New Orleans or not, proclaiming OSU out of the picture was an egregious oversight. Thankfully, you're not a brain surgeon.osurocks, don't put the horse in front of the cart, 3 teams are in front of the Bucks and we know one will lose today BUT if the other 2 win out , THEY deserve to play in nc game, and I am the BUCKEYE fan but it wouldn't be right to win when you have to and not be given the chance to play in the big game. Just look back at the season , including the Bucks, and see how many teams, including LSU, had a chance to close the deal and didn't. Ain't this a great season.boy, that sure is a vaunted LSU defense.Now THIS is what college football is all about! A playoff would be nice, but you would still have people (IE sec fans) claiming its not fair cause they have such a tough schedule. give me a break, take care of business on your own end and let the chips fall where they may. This has been an exciting season. GEAUX BUCKS!Prediction in NC game:
Buckeyes 31
Missouri 10ok , good reading and talking to all you fans out there, BUT i've gotta go watch some more GREAT college football, tenn. vs. ky. --
uva vs. va tech. --- and of course fla. vs. fla. st. so don't be a hater. be a watcher. go Bucks, either to the Rose bowl or the nc.GEAUX BUCKS!for OSU Dad - When I said I would bet on a rested LSU I meant 4 - 5 weeks of rest so that injuries might fully heal. How many times have you seen two great fighters go at it and both end up in the hospital for one reason or another? Give both of those fighters two weeks of rest, send them against #5 or worse and they may have little left to fight. You saw what a tired, beat up Fla did in ending the season last year, and what they did with rest. No one can say for sure but I am inclined to think LSU would give similar results this year. Please don't degrade OSU as so many have done by citing their 51 day lay off as an excuse for losing. It is certain that any team they play in a bowl would have much fewer days off. OSU has too great a tradition for you to be giving them an excuse for losing before a game is played.As a longtime Buckeye fan, I hope this is the last time the Bucks schedule three Ohio teams in one season. I know, we have to share the wealth that comes from playing in the Shoe with other Ohio schools, but three in one season? That just leaves us open to crap from these SEC jerks.
As for last year? Well, we played the number two team three times: Texas, Michigan, and Florida. Yeah, the NC game was a mortal embarrassment - the boys finally started to believe all the hype, and Troy was doing too many banquets after winning the Heisman. If we get another chance this year, it won't be the same story.
No one expected the Bucks to be this good this year. But to you clowns who insist we never play anyone, wake up and smell the coffee... teams like OSU, Michigan, USC, Oklahoma, and Texas ARE college football. Yeah, the teams from the SEC win a lot - they also usually win the award for most NCAA recruiting violations, too.
Personally, I'd love to see OSU play WVU for the title. Like me, half of Cowlumbus was born in West By God Virginny. Sure wish WVU was in the Big Ten, though.Here's an intersting thought Buckeye fans...
Let's say that WVU wins against UConn, so they punch their ticket to the NC game.
And let's say for argument sake that Kansas beats Mizzou (or vice versa, who cares for my scenario), setting up an OU-Kansas Big XII Championship Game. Do any of you think that Bob Stoops would have any incentive to "rest" an ailing QB and insure that the Big XII has a NC representative? OU has looked very ordinary without an all world QB, and I could still see OU getting a very good bowl game becuase they travel well even with that third loss.
Not saying it will happen...just a thoughtCharles,
Please let it go re: last year's NC game. Please. For all of us.
These are all factors (not excuses) as to why OSU lost. If you ask any Buckeye fan, they will admit that Florida was the better team THAT DAY, and that given a mulligan, who knows...
Isn't that exactly what most SEC fans (yourself included) are doing. "Just give us time to heal...we could do it coach. Playing all these tough teams in a row meant that we couldn't give our best effort every week and win the game." Injuries, layoffs, complacency, and just plain not being prepared for certain matchups are all part of the game, but as many intelligent fans have posted before, it only means that the victor was the better theam that day. That's not to detract from a winning team's performance, but to assert that because UF won one game against Ohio State that they would do it again this year (or better yet, the rest of the SEC could replicate the result) is laughable at best.For all the people who say Big 10 is weak conf.. seriously take a look at the teams and their records. How come SEC beating each other makes them a strong conf versus ? Also, look at the big 10 schools that would be good (I mean really good) next year.. Ohio State, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Mich State and Penn State.. All of these will be very tough teams to beat.. we talk about SEC being strong and they get beaten by unranked teams. Stop whining about Ohio state schedule being easy..
Big 10 bowl eligible teams..
Ohio State 11 1
Illinois 9 3
Michigan 8 4
Wisconsin 9 3
Penn State 8 4
Iowa 6 6
Michigan State 7 5
Purdue 7 5
Indiana 7 5
Northwestern 6 6For all the people who say Big 10 is weak conf.. seriously take a look at the teams and their records. How come SEC beating each other makes them a strong conf versus ? Also, look at the big 10 schools that would be good (I mean really good) next year.. Ohio State, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Mich State and Penn State.. All of these will be very tough teams to beat.. we talk about SEC being strong and they get beaten by unranked teams. Stop whining about Ohio state schedule being easy..
Big 10 bowl eligible teams..
Ohio State 11 1
Illinois 9 3
Michigan 8 4
Wisconsin 9 3
Penn State 8 4
Iowa 6 6
Michigan State 7 5
Purdue 7 5
Indiana 7 5
Northwestern 6 6bgault: I just can't see that happening. Stoops and every other coach is out there to win as many as they can. Remember how hacked Carr got last year at Tressel for not voting for Michigan? Not much loyalty within conferences, I think.
But have you noticed how much more heat the Bucks take from everyone, Mandel included, since the Irish have dropped off the radar? Seems like our beloved Buckeyes have become 'the team everyone loves to hate'. Envy is an ugly thing...Stick a fork in LSU, they're done. LSU will lose again next week......A very tired football team.
-No Defense
-NO Energy
-No Emotion
Just beat to hell from all the close games....
After a good rest, LSU will bounce back and win their bowl game regardless of whom they play.
With all the talent, it's a pity the BCS isn't in their future....penelties cost them SO MUCH....I mean EVERYTHING.
They play fast, undisiplined, wild-wild-west, shoot from them hip footbal.....
Fun to watch, but being a fan must tough.....
Suck it up LSU, the talent will be there again in 2 years if no one blows it.I'd just like to point out that Ed Orgeron was fired by Ole Miss, and so Stewart's prediction of his return is completely wrong.
Second of all, all of you out there who continue to argue over which conference is better are retarded, especially nova85, since he proposed ranking the conferences. There is no clear answer. There is no way of factoring in all the little details that contribute to a game. The only completely correct way of deciding which is better is having each team from every conference play each team in every other conference, where both teams have their complete complement of healthy players, and the game is played on a neutral field in perfect conditions with no wind, and it's officiated by 100 refs with 20/20 vision who know the rulebook inside and out. That will NEVER happen, so there is no point in arguing the fact. Just live with what it is. It was set up as a democracy, where the most qualified people vote on who they think is better, and the majority wins, and then computers calculate with stats who is projected t be best, and these are put together with the final ranking coming from the average of these rankings, so quit your bellyaching and stop trying to rank the conferences. (BTW, I am not advocating the BCS system, just trying to explain it.)Hillbilly -
Yeah, I agree man. Just saying that Stoops might have some incentive to rest a very young QB, and it would be a perfect excuse to tank the game and shut all of us up. If he gets hurt further (don't know how bad the concussion is), it seems to me that he's risking the future of the program in addition to the Big XII Championship.
And re: the media hating us. Couldn't agree with you more. Tressel is the new Pete Carroll. Load up on talent, have it perform at a high level almost immediately, and be in the hunt every year for a NC. No ND, no USC, and no Miami or FSU to hate...might as well be the Buckeyes at this point. People seem to forget that Bob Stoops got blown out in a NC game, but nobody wants to talk about that when describing the "awesome" OU Sooners program. They just talk about the heated rivalry with teams such as Texas, and the Red River Shootout. Makes me laugh.for bgault - Someone wise once said that those who do not know history are condemned to repeat the mistakes. Drawing similarities with the past should not upset you, and if you think there are no similarities say so. LSU lost two games in overtime. Fla nearly lost two if you consider a blocked field goal at the end to be nearly. You say you are tired of hearing of the Fla/OSU NC game. I am tired of hearing of the 51 day lay off as if Tressel is incapable of teaching timing in practice.
I stated that given a chance to rest, as Fla was given last year, and regroup I would put good money on LSU in an NC game against OSU, especially in New Orleans. It's a simple honest epression of an opinion that is insulting to no one and I cannot understand why some of you trip out and return insults. Reply if you wish as to why you think otherwise and we can have an intelligent discussion. Lower yourself to call me an idiot, as I think you have done in the past, and I just cannot see how the two of us will benefit from any discussion.for Hillbilly - It was Tressel last year who did not vote for Mich or Fla. It was a no win situation for Tressel. Had he voted for Mich and Fla was selected it was billboard material. If he voted for Fla and Mich was selected he would have been blasted even more. Give Tressel credsit for making a wise decision.coyneregan, I agree with you about the futility of ranking conferences, but there's no question this is an off year (or two) for the Big Ten. And it's also true that there's really no dominant conference anymore.
That said, I'd prefer that the Big Ten get back to being a bit more balanced. Not that I would ever, God forbid, want UM to beat us, but it's a good thing that Carr is finally gone. The rivalry can't really take much more of the Bucks winning every year.
And Penn State? Remember how they were going to dominate the conference? Will they EVER force JoePa out? Doubt it. So we're looking at another three or four years of mediocrity there. Illinois is definitely the team to watch... if Wisconsin and Iowa would get serious again, and maybe even Michigan State, we'd be back in business. But I still wish we could swap Northwestern or Minnesota for West Virginia.Charles, yes, that was my point, which I made very poorly. I was trying to say that conference loyalty doesn't count for very much. Coaches are paid to win, nothing else matters, nor should it.hillbilly - I agree. When the best a conf can offer is a 2-loss team it seems silly to trumpet conf greatness.
I would like to see new blood prove, through victories over old blood, that they are a new generation. But Kansas, Illinois & Missou have not done that to my satisfaction. And even if they do a world without Michigan, USC Texas and so on seems to be missing something vibrant.Charles, I personally would have loved to see OSU and LSU go after it for all the marbles. THAT would have been a great game! We're still smarting in Columbus, and we will be for years, over last year's game. Not to make excuses, but I think the boys got so pumped over the "Game of the Century" against UM, that they just let down after that. A shame that they couldn't keep it going.
By the way, I'm sitting in Budapest Hungary right now.... it's sure great to be able to talk college football with SOMEbody.Charles,
If you'll recall, I stated that you were being an idiot in a particular thread, not that you were in fact an idiot. There is a big difference there. Additionally, if you'll remember, I also stated that because of your eloquence it was obvious that you were an educated man. Surely you have better memory than this.
That being said, I reiterate that most (but I'm sure not all) Ohio State fans will offer the 51 day layoff and loss of Ginn as factors in losing the game, but surely not the entire reason. Aren't you the one who indicated that "when prizefighters beat themselves up" if they had to fight the following week, they might not be capable of giving an all out effort...sounds like an excuse to me. Or is it just a factor in why an LSU team lost two games?
Layoffs always affect offense more than defense (see the beginning of a season as proof...why else do you think we see many more "defensive struggles" as a team finds their timing and rhythm?), and mentioning it as a factor is certainly not to be considered whining about a whipping at the hands of the Gators...provided that the explanation is given in context. I have already given that context by indicating that the Florida Gators were the better team that day, and have contratulated them as such. But, a loss of the only big play receiver, allowing Florida to crowd the box and rush all day, coupled with a loss of the short timing routes due to layoff has to be at least acknowledged.
However, and this is a big however, to assume that UF could win again with different personnel this year (or that any other SEC team could replicate the results of that particular day) is silly. Could LA-Monroe beat LSU since Alabama basically gave that game away? Could Stanford beat ASU since USC did? I mean, seriously, come on.Before the Heisman voters classify Tim Tebow as the greatest of all time they should compare his stats with those of Alex Smith (Urban Meyers last product of his system). Its amazing how similar the stats really are. Should the Heisman go to Tebow or to the Urban Meyer system of offense?How bout two title games this year!
rose bowl usc-ohio state
bcs championship sec champ vers b12 champbgault - Your memory is correct. According to you I was being an idiot in those series of posts. I am educated but the research into human intelligence suggests that we all become quite sophisticated in our careers, and hobbies or interests. In other words we all typically learn what we need to know to get by. Society places a greater value on getting a heart transplant than a toilet fixed that is flooding but that is of no interest to the person with the flooding toilet. He just wants a knowledgeable person fast. I do have a degree from Wisc and I don't want to start any silly fights, but back then the Big Ten system was perhaps the finest BCS system when it came to an education. Before anyone goes ballistic ditto the Pac Ten. Today there is evidence that the SEC is catching up or has caught up. Maybe the others, too. But I also went to school at Georgia and Florida so the SEC wins 2 - 1, and it is Fla since many of us seem to remember our first loves the best.
Pros (tennis players, Michelle Wie, etc etc pull out of tournaments frequently because of injury. I don't see it as an excuse. Afterwards however I think they serve no one to say yeah I got beat but I broke my ankle on the third hole. I think it is a fact of life that when you are Vandy and you play Fla after the Alab, LSU, Aub, GA marathon that you may catch a break. But for Fla to say we had the marathon and that is why Vandy did so well is less than real sportsmanship.
The 51 day lay off for the Big Ten seems a fact of life for a while. Therefore I think it shows more class not to mention it. Or you risk someone like me saying now you have a built in excuse for all of your big bowls. People really should have not mentioned Ginn to begin with. Fla lost its best defensive player late in the season. A great defensive person can shut down an offensive star, and vice versa, so who's to say what would have happened if both teams kept their stars.
You know the Big Ten could easily delay its last game of the season until after T'giving in many cases thus nullifying this factor, if it is a factor. I think coaches would be screaming if it was that important. Remember how Spurrier used to gripe about playing FSU late with the SEC title right behind. Bowden said nothing until a year or so ago and then he agreed.
You know you are right about layoffs affecting the offense more than the defense. But the announcers and observers said that in practice Fla's timing was cruddy, while OSU was crisp. Maybe they were wrong.
I do hope we can better communicate in the future. I do a lot of research and I think I occasionally have insights on one thing or another. For Ashley to say I lost all credibility when I ranked USF #1 in the country was fine. As a Fla fan I never had USF better than #3 in the state though and I think her mistake was honest. Another said straight out that I was just an idiot. What can I say? Guilty as charged.Could it be that Charles is in fact, STEWART LOLOhio St. was good until they ran into an SEC team in the tile game....what was that final score???
Last year, bro ... that was LAST year.
Time to turn the page, SEC fans.
We've played 95 percent of an entire new season since then. You know, the same season where all of your media-backed teams have been ranked, beaten each other in a fit of mediocrity not seen since the Ford administration, then got to sit back and cry that they all "lost to ranked teams."
SEC "dominance": biggest fraud in sports history.Randy - Anything is possible, but after Stew said Fla had no chance when selected for the NC I wrote to him and suggested that maybe the Fla schedule had clouded its ability on the field. I further suggested that if he was so sure about Fla he might offer to resign if wrong. (I never predicted a Fla victory). I wouldn't do that to myself would I?
Stew does pretty well. I don't like some of his comments, but I never see bias.After living dangerously all year LSU drops their second game. So is there any chance of LSU playing USC in a Bowl game. I would love to see that.I too look forward to your comments on these crazy days of college football. Thanks for the post!I too look forward to your comments on these crazy days of college football. Thanks for the post!Andrew and Nabil:
I too was disappointed with Texas' loss to A&M yesterday. However I think this year's team plays hard despite being inconsistent. I also think they are not one of Mack's best teams talent-wise (and they are also a pretty young group overall).
Still, we're knocking on the door of EIGHT 10-win seasons in a row. Mack is 102-25 (with and without Vince Young), has a national championship, better winning percentage than Darrel Royal, and has transformed the game-day experience in Austin.
Yes, 30 of those wins involved VY at QB, but 11 of those losses occured in the first 3 years (John Mackovic's recruits).
Hook 'Em!Wow! So many SEC haters. One question: How many of your teams come out of our conference with fewer losses than an LSU or Georgia? Seriously. WVA? Kansas (lol a lot)? Buckeye fans- want some? Thought so...for physicsprof - Virtually no chance for LSU in the Rose against USC. The Sugar gets the SEC champ, unless it is an NC invite. If GA or TN defeats LSU, freeing LSU from the Sugar Bowl I would think the Rose would not want a 3-loss LSU. If Ohio St gets an NC invite there is speculation that no otehr Big Ten team will have a ranking high enough to go to the Rose Bowl. The Rose will go looking for a Pac Ten opponent, but I suspect it might take the loser of the Kans/Missou affair, or the loser of the Big 12 title, unless it is a 3-loss OK. If too few teams have the rankings then the Rose could go with a 3-loss Illinois. Every scenario I have listed is iffy at best.charles,
i understand your point of view and yes, all the teams would be much better with 51 days rest and before you say anything, let's go back and stop the nc after ginn ran the opening kickoff back for a td and wait until he's better to play the rest of the game. I am not making excuses, the other players should have taken over and come up big but they didn't, no excuses, we lose... you seen like a pretty intelligent guy, you know that you can't say, if and buts, it's a game , that's why they play it out.for hillbilly - I am sorry but your post did not make it clear whether you were in Buda or Pest.for osudad - I have followed college football for 50 years. I would never use absolutes. Had Ginn stayed healthy it is possible that he could have kept the Fla defense a bit off step, kept the game closer, and then who knows how it might have ended. If I knew things that well I would not waste time talking with you guys, but would spend it talking to bookies in Vegas.
My opinion, highly unpopular with OSU people, is that OSU was not challenged this year or last until it was too late with Fla. OSU is proud that in many games this year their starters spent the second half sitting on the bench not running up the score. I hope it is clear that LSU, this year, and Fla last year, had few games in which starters could rest. You can say it was because they lacked the talent to dominate and had to stay in the game, or you could say that a rigorous schedule wore them down and clouded their talent picture. What is certain is that experts last year were saying that Fla had a championship caliber team that could not survive their rigorous schedule.
A major factor, IMO, in the Fiesta Bowl is that OSU starters who had spent a good deal of time on the sidelines encountered battle hardened veterans. If challenges can make us strong OSU made it clear they were not challenged last year. Scores in the Fla games make it clear they were challenged. I mention this as something to think about, not as something written in stone.First off, Charles,
I regret the fact that you are down in health, some of my posts weren't meant to discredit you, your post do show that you must spend allot of time watching sports and stats.
For Ashley an her disrespect for anyone with injuries was un called for. "thanks for the sob story"
I've read theses forums for years, my first as a poster.
College Football:
1:The best sport your going to find.
2:A true College football fan will watch any game.
3:Polls are only posted to put up what we might expect to see what unfolds through the year.
4:The BCS, until we find a way to get the human polls out of the picture (coaches)(Harris), or in other words, bias to a team or conference, the BCS will be flawed.
The computer rankings are one way, it takes into account schedules, scores and wins. No bias there.
4:Trying to argue strength of schedule and out of conferences is a mute point, any team can beat any team on a given day.
5:The Heisman, should go to the best player that stands out as a performer. My picks would be,
2007
1-Darren McFadden
2-Chase Daniel
3-Vernon Golston
4-Rudy Carpenter
5-Sam Bradford
2008
1-Chris Wells
2-Rashard Mendenhall
3-Tim Tebow
These are picks from observations on field play.
I'm Big Ten, but I seen some dam pretty good games today.
I even got to watch Delaware/Delaware St. play, was as good of a game as I see in any conference.
Which brings me to the point of my #1 pick, College Football is great to watch.
Good Luck to all the teams that play the Bowls, I'll be watching !
Go BucksI am hoping a 3-way Missou, WV, OSU tie, in which someone is left out, will be good for the sport. Maybe all schools would give more attention to their ooc schedule.1st the BCS sucks and Im sure we can all agree on that.
2nd LSU has been living on the edge all year. That dominating "D" was not what they were hyped to be and all you Tiger fans know that. I will agree after watching the tigers play, I felt it was there year to many breaks where going their way. If it came down to a challenge aganist Ark, Im sure LSU would of won. But Miles knew he had to roll the dice and show his players that he believed in them. I do believe that Miles did more with his talent at Okie State than at LSU!!
OSU should not be in title game!! Period!!! After watching a good not great Illinois team beat them up. It just shows that the big ten is more like the witness protection program for OSU and Michigan. If they do get in the NCG versus WVU. Its gonna be like FLA all over again.
I guess Kansas thought the game last night was 5 qtrs long. B/c they didnt show up until the 4th.
Hawaii should play in a BCS game. You can only play who is on your schedule. and heres a news flash, Oklahomas schedule is 98th and kansas is 107 and they play in the mighty "small 12". So give me a break on their strentgh of schedule, if it wasnt that it would be something else. Of yeah what was Boises's last year? and they seem to do pretty well.
Brennon should be invited to NYC for the Heisman. I keep hearing all this system qb stuff. which QB isnt a system qb? Isnt Tebow doing the samething alex smith did in the offense at Utah? and all those records he's breaking dont they belong to a system qb(detmer)? and oh yeah he won the heisman.
Now I think DMac should win it. I dont care that he didnt have the crazy stats, that you seem to need to win now. If your looking for that, give it to the back at UCF he just went over 2000 yds. wasnt that a guarantee to win the heisman type season? but he plays for UCF if it was one of the big schools, he would be a shoe in. Sad, same player different team and he's viewed totally diff.
Heisman has become the joke award of college football!!!!!!Stewart;
Why would Georgia have the "Armegeddon scenario" of being in the championship game, but not LSU?
Before everyone slams this idea, consider how this scenario would play out.
If (and this is very unlikely) West Virginia loses to Pitt, and OU wins the Big 12 over Mizzou, then Ohio State is #1. Now, why would Ohio State play Georgia, a 2-loss team, instead of LSU, with their 2 losses both in overtime, and a additional win over Tennessee (all of this assuming LSU wins the SEC over Tennessee). Surely the voters would pull for the 11-2 conference champ over a 10-2 team that didn't make the championship game.
Again, all very unlikely, but I don't see how Georgia would have a shot over their conference champion with a better record.Off with LES MILES head.
He has shown through the past 3 years he cannot coach a big time program. I hope he goes to Michigan, but i am not sure they would want him if they watched that game. This is why I think he should go.
A team with that much talent should not be penalized that much by any strtch of the imagination. Look at the penalties called and you will see the majority of penalties are called on SENIORS. This is not acceptable. Why do you leave Dorsey and Steltz in the whole game when you can see they cant move. We have capable backups that could have filled in. The team doesnt even know who to cover on the field. Notice the huge busted coverage on McCray on 4th and 10 in o.t. vs. Arkansas. Believe it or not, Tiger fans, Nick would not have this team playing like that. All season, Miles has been getting lucky and now people should see that he is not an SEC or any other BCS conference coach. Hire Pelini and lose Miles.The Book
Stewart Mandel's first book, Bowls, Polls and Tattered Souls: Tackling the Chaos and Controversy that Reign Over College Football, is available now. Click here to order your discounted copy.CommentsAll user comments must be approved by the moderator before being published. Due to time constraints, comments will only be published for the first several hours following a new post.More MandelRecent Posts
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