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SI.com college football writer Stewart Mandel shares his commentary, analysis and random tidbits on the latest developments around the country.11/10/2007 06:55:00 PM Saturday Observations, Part II
At long last, our national nightmare is over.
Brian Robiskie (80) and the Buckeyes played themselves out of the national title game … for now.AP
You made it abundantly clear over the past month, America. You did not want to see another Ohio State national-title appearance. Not because of some inherent aversion toward scarlet and gray (I hope), but because … well, it just didn’t feel right.
No. 1 again? Really? After what happened against Florida? After possibly going the entire regular season without defeating a nationally respected opponent?
I remained somewhat skeptical of the Buckeyes myself, not because they weren’t a solid team, but because they weren’t being adequately tested by their schedule. Were they to meet an LSU or Oregon in New Orleans, the result would likely be similar to last year’s Florida beatdown -- not because those teams are inordinately better than Ohio State, but because the Buckeyes haven’t faced the type of speed during the regular season to prepare them for such an event. Mercifully -- as much for Ohio State’s sake as ours -- we no longer have to worry about that.
Speaking of speed, the Buckeyes had gone their first 10 games without facing a mobile quarterback the likes of Illinois’ Juice Williams. The sophomore has been largely erratic all season, but watching him Saturday, you would have thought he was Dennis Dixon.
Williams walked into the sold-out Horseshoe and threw a career-high four touchdowns against the nation’s top-ranked defense. Those four scores, along with the defense’s three interceptions of Ohio State QB Todd Boeckman, gave Illinois the lead, but it was Williams’ feet that gave the Illini the win. Four times on Illinois’ game-sealing, eight-minute, 15-play drive, the Chicago native converted a third or fourth down with a run to wrap up the 28-21 stunner.
A quarterback comes of age. An oft-criticized coach, Ron Zook, earns a landmark victory. A tradition-starved program pulls off its first win over a No. 1 team since 1956. Of all teams, Illinois turns the national-title race upside down.
At this point, nothing about this season can possibly surprise me -- Ohio State is merely the ninth top-five team to lose to an unranked foe this fall -- but think about how quickly its complexion changed Saturday. Seven hours ago, we were looking toward another epic OSU-Michigan showdown between two teams with undefeated Big Ten records; the two rivals will still play for a conference title and Rose Bowl berth next week, but few outside the Midwest will care.
Suddenly, LSU and Oregon sit in the national-title driver’s seat. Both, like the Buckeyes, lost to a current three-loss team; fortunately for them, those defeats came in September and October, not mid-November.
Suddenly, tonight’s Kansas-Oklahoma State game takes on added importance. Kansas, yes Kansas, is the last remaining undefeated BCS-conference team. Should the Jayhawks manage to win out -- something that is far from guaranteed, what with 9-1 Missouri and possibly 8-1 Oklahoma remaining -- voters could have one heck of a dilemma on their hands.
But don’t be fooled. Ohio State’s loss was merely the beginning of what I fully anticipate will be a tumultuous final few weeks to the regular season. By Dec. 2, we will have yet another, unprecedented BCS dilemma to debate.
Who knows? Depending on just how crazy things get, this year’s controversy might even involve the prospect of a two-loss national-title contender -- particularly if the only remaining one-loss team happens to be … Ohio State.posted by Stewart Mandel | View comments |Comments:
Geaux Tigers!Well, congrats Illinois, good non-fumble on the first drive. Thanks referees, way to call a good game. Illinois held Gholston 3 plays in a row, without a call.wow, jotto... upset much?
It's times like these I HATE living in Columbus. I'm putting my car in the garage in case one of you nutjobs burns it.
Oh, and that was quite classy of OSU to get in a fight and start swinging at the only guy who doesn't have a helmet.Oh, and, forgot to mention - The second freakin' post is an excuse. I'll be durned.Stew is from Cincinnati, Kentucky (Ohio only claims Cincinnati for tax purposes, Cincinnati is really part of Kentucky), went to an overrated Northwestern. He can never be regarded as an unbiased "journalist" when it comes to covering Ohio State. Ohio State is still the best 1 loss team in the country, has no one else noticed that in the SEC road teams have a .500 record? There is no home field advantage, losing on the road to Kentucky is a disgrace. Oregon-Arizona State rematch for the title this year. The south sucks, Abraham Lincoln should have let you worthless hillbillies go when he had the chance.Anyone else thinking it was dirty how Florida treated Ron Zook? He recruited his heart out, brought in the talent, then had to sit and watch while Meyer took his team to the national championship. Here's hoping Illinois doesn't try to play the same game, and leaves the Zooker to fail or succeed on his own terms.
That said, let's go West Virginia!I'm an Ohio State fan, and I'll say that a 1-loss OSU team has no place in the national championship.
Besides, this is a rebuilding year; I was expecting a Citrus er Capitol One Bowl berth anyway. Beating Michigan and earning a Rose Bowl berth would put this season beyond my expectations.
OSU plays at USC next season; at least we won't have to listen to any whining about whether or not we belong when we win that game.I am surprised that Stew did not mention OK. Georgia is playing better and may upset LSU in the SEC title game. As OSU was untested in a real sense so is Oreg. Stew also did not mention WV, but their schedule is even weaker than any of the above. I guess I see LSU/Oreg or OK as the best match. Comments?I posted this on the earlier blog but will do so again...congratulations to Illinois. They simply outplayed us, and the deserve the win. They're a good team, and Juice Williams played a tremendous game. Whoever plays them in their bowl is in for a heck of a game.
I'm still very proud of my Buckeyes...they're certainly not the first great team to lose a game this year, and I'll look forward to a really good bowl game as well as a great game next week with Michigan.
As for the early-game fumble, yeah, it was puzzling to me that it wasn't reviewed or appealed, but that was early in the game and we should have come back, and we didn't.
At this point, I'll sit back and wait for the piling on from the OSU haters to end (including you, Stewart, for your crappy little dig at the end of this blog piece--I've thought to myself "isn't Stewart better than this?" for the last time--I've got my answer). I don't know why OSU has engendered so much negative feelings from you guys but we're simply playing our season like everybody else. Our fans aren't any more arrogant than any other team ranked up there, but all season long we've had to put up with crappy comments from folks whose teams aren't necessarily any better. Well, enjoy, folks, and we'll see you in the Rose Bowl.
Again, congratulations to the Illini on a great game...well played and you deserve the win. I know you (and the other Big 10 teams) will do well at the end of the season and make us proud.To the bigot calling himself "stewart" in order to create confusion--go back to first grade geography, fool. Hillbillies live in the hills! There aren't any real hills in Lousiana, Florida, Alabama or Mississippi, there are precious few in Georgia and South Carolina. The only southern states with hills to speak of are Kentucky, Arkansas, Tennessee, Virginia, and North Carolina. Therefore, most of the south has no hillbillies, you Ohio redneck.OSU the best 1-loss in the country?
I think that's a bit of a stretch, given that they have defeated zero teams currently ranked in the AP poll.
Meanwhile, LSU has defeated four currently ranked teams (VA Tech, Florida, Auburn, Alabama) and Oregon three (Michigan, ASU, USC). Even OU has managed two (Texas, Missouri).
And LSU and Oregon's losses are not worse than OSU's (the teams that beat LSU and Oregon are currently tied for #24 in the AP poll; Illinois is currently unranked, though presumably that will change).OK, you got me there. In place of the term hillbillies, let me replace it with "worthless confederate traitors."By the way, OSU did a really nice job of recognizing veterans (both surviving and those who've lost their life in the service of their country) at various points during the game, to tremendous applause and respect from the crowd. It certainly helped put things in perspective (particularly since we've had our share of losses from Ohio). I hope (and imagine) the same was true at other stadiums across the country, in anticipation of a Veteran's Day that should be very "real" and recognized by all of us.Hey guys Stewart will be wealthy one day. When they perfect brain transplants he'll advertise his as hardly used.Ohio st. sucks they probably will lose against Michigan & might play usc in a bowl game or Virginia tech
Let's GOOOOOOOO MountaineersMost of the Appalachian residents (which you would deem 'hillbillies') actually supported the Union in the Civil War. West Virginia was formed as a result of it; Lincoln was obsessed with getting the Union army to Eastern Tennessee/Western North Carolina to support the Union voices there; even in northern Georgia my great great (great?) grandpappy got in trouble for supporting the Union (he was originally -- like me -- from New Jersey), and he was not alone.
Today's history lesson is sponsored by Colgate Fresh Gel.Wow. OSU players and fans really show their true colors. When they win, they burn and destory property. When they lose, they call out their fellow countrymen living below the Mason-Dixon Line and start a fight with the other team.
CLASS IS OUT IN COLUMBUS!Two things disturb me about tOSU's loss to Illinois today, and neither of them have anything to do with the game.
1. The national media has piled it on OSU all season about how they didn't belong anywhere near the top 10, much less the number one ranking that they inherited when "better" teams like Oregon and LSU had their trips. Lucky for those teams that the losses came early in the season, and a shame for OSU that they didn't lose an early game themselves. I fully expect OSU to drop out of the top ten come Monday, with sportswriters such as Stewart still living last year's game in this year's polls.
2. I'm equally perplexed that both OSU and UM seem to be completely befuddled by the spread offense. It particularly bothers me that OSU can't seem to defend it since it was their offense during Troy Smith's tenure. Both teams seem completely lost by teams running plays that are not "traditional" offenses.
And, as a final note...the non-fumble didn't lost the game. Turning the ball over inside the ten yard line while throwing three interceptions (one into obvious double coverage) lost OSU the game. I believe that Illinois scored TDs on all of OSU's turnovers.Stewart (not Mandel), keep showing your ignorance, please, it's almost hilarious. How long has your family been on this continent? Learn some history. Plenty of living in "the south" today moved there after the civil war, and plenty of them immigrated to America in the twentieth century. There really aren't many who can trace their families back to the civil war--and if you can't, then shut up and stop talking about things that don't concern you and aren't part of your history. Having said that, it's important to remember that there are hicks all over the country north and south, east and west, and you sound like one of them--and an ignorant bigot, too.anyone know why they didnt review that long run on the illini's first drive?Thx, chrth, that's my point. Your ancestor must have been quite an independent thinking man.TC:
There is plenty of class here in Columbus, or are you going to use that same brush to color every team based on the few "over the top" fans (including those of your own team)?
I personally never felt that OSU was necessarily the best team out there, but I also thought they could hang with anyone in a bowl game, and I STILL think that. They lost a game tonight, the same way that pretty much every other top team has done. They learn and move on.
In any case, and whatever happens, I'm proud of my team and the kids who are playing, and I'll continue to root for them and the rest of the Big 10 in bowl season.
Good luck to all and congratulations to the Illini!As an UO fan i must say that i am so happy that OSU lost. Not because i dont like OSU but because the Big ten isnt that good of a confrence. Everyone knows that the sec is the best confrence.....they showed that to the big ten last year. Also in atleast my opinion the Pac10 is the secon best confrence. It just makes it right for the best team from the Sec to play the best team from the Pac10.
GO DUCKS!I really hope 'Stewart' isn't from Ohio. I am Jack's complete embarrassment. I am also sick of apologizing for the behavior of classless losers. But I refuse to apologize for the Butteyes fighting with the Illini after the game. That was just classless and uncalled for and I want everyone to say the same. Specifically, I'm speaking about #2 - Daniel Herron, a freshman RB from Warren, OH. To be fair, he's the only one who I can easily single out for assaulting a helmetless Illini player.Thank you Illinois, hopefully Okla. loses too so as to avoid a blowout in the nat'l champ. game. hey maybe OSU and OU can play each other in a bowl game - could be the first time 2 teams get blown out in a single game!Whining and classless defines the overrated Ohio St and their fans. Now that the Illini pu a beatdown on the buckies, maybe we can focus on who the really good teams are.
I hope they don't broadcast the OS Mich game south of Kentucky.
LSU will destroy Oregon and Kanasas is way over rated too.Hey Charles, not to burst your bubble, but remember that if Tennessee wins out, they hold the tie-breaker over Georgia for the SEC championship. Don't buy tickets to the Superdome just yet.
Also, "Stewart," did you realize that LSU's loss came on the road to a ranked Kentucky team while OSU's loss came at home to a never-ranked Illinois team? How is OSU supposed to be the best 1-loss team in the country again? Oh that's right, you're comparing an entire conference (SEC road game win percentage) to one team (OSU's "amazing" success is the Big 10). But then what do I know, I'm just a "hillbilly" what listens to them thar facts an such.For the love of God, SI, please put an "ignore" feature on your blog systems... :)
BTW, Stewart, Lincoln (a hero of mine) very much wanted Robert Lee to head the Union army, but Lee was unable to do so since it meant turning his back on his beloved Virginia.
And yes, I KNOW Virginia isn't in the SEC either...(sigh)Buckeye fan here, congratulations Illini on a well earned victory, you definitely deserve it. I would take Leman as one of my LBs anyday.
I would like to ask the poster known as "Stewart" to shut the hell up, because if he knew the true circumstances behind the Civil War and not what the politicians approve for grade, middle and High School, he wouldn't be making those ignorant comments.
I would like to digress back to football now after that short social studies rant....I thought the Bucks would go 10-2 this year, it being a year with 1 senior on each side of the ball. So far they have exceeded my expectations and as much as I am p!ssed at Tressel for not giving Beanie the ball 30 times when it was obvious Boeckman was struggling, I am still proud of the Bucks.
Let me also say Stewart Mandel makes me sick, way to be subjective. The Bucks will be giving your Wildcats swirlies until the end of time, don't worry about that.Mizzou beat Illinois on neutral site (AND LED 37-13 at one point). They have the "best" loss of all the one-loss teams (Oregon LOST AT HOME!). MU is killing people. I think they'll win out -- anything short of the BSC would be criminal.
And, still, I don't belive Stewart has even seen one Big 12 game and will be Quackin about his weekend in Eugene and probably Ryan for Heisman, regardless of what transpires in Nov. and the first week of Dec.as an ohio state alum i have to say im embarrassed by the bull$hi+ being posted on here from other osu fans.
firstly, i dont want to read any crap about how we beat ourselves. illinois played a great game.
secondly, while i may wish the worst to the SEC teams after last year [jealousy???] these are simply class-less comments making the loss even harder. i am embarrassed by my fellow OSU fans. losing sucks, but at least lose with some dignity.It's just funny... Illinois (a Big Ten team) beats Ohio State and instantly Ohio State sucks... but when and SEC team beat another, it's just an example of how tough the SEC is. Same with Wisconsin and Michigan. I'm a Penn State fan by the way so there's certainly no OSU bias on my part. Illinois is a damn good team, but it get's dismissed because everyone still equates Ohio State with last year's title game.
College football experts and writers such as Stew and many others are getting nearly as bad as politicians. I can't wait until the bowl games this year when the SEC and the rest of the country get a wakeup call. I only wish that people would actually remember when the SEC loses in their out of conference games.I wish I could replay for you all what a local sportscaster here in Columbus just said: "We love you, Columbus" (pleadingly during the fade out) "Don't tear up the town tonight..."To Bendy33....
You stated "Everyone knows that the sec is the best confrence.....they showed that to the big ten last year"
Last year, if I recall correctly, the Big Ten was 2-1 against the SEC in bowl games. I'll give you the championship game. But the SEC got beat in the other 2 games. Funny how everyone forgets that!!!!!!!!SEC_Rules:
I think "classless" is the term that should come to you when looking in a mirror. It's frankly pretty stupid to cast aspersions against a team and entire set of fans, but then again pretty much everybody reading this knows that (except, apparently, you). By the way, you forgot to talk about how Big 10 fans (and the conference too) are also whining and classless, how every SEC team could beat every Big 10 team, blah blah blah.
I know many fans from many different conferences, and the vast vast vast majority of them are 1) enthusiastic about their teams/conferences, but at the same time 2) friendly, a good sport, etc. How you handle winning tells you as much about class, dignity, character and honor as how you handle losing, and frankly isn't that what sports are all about? Teaching those things?I don't get why everyone hates the Buckeyes. It's not the team's fault that everyone ahead of them lost and they ended up #1 for a while. The players have been modest and respectful of their opponents in all the interviews I've seen, following the lead of their coach who is one of the classiest and best in college football. OSU fans have been the first to admit that we didn't expect to do so well this season -- it was supposed to be a "rebuilding" year.
I also think it's stupid to criticize the team because of the little fight after the game. You have no idea who started it, so it's not fair to say that it reflects badly only on the Buckeyes. It sounds like some people just want to make a big deal out of whatever little thing they can think of to tear down the Buckeyes.nobody "hates" the buckeyes (I actually rooted for them last year, being from big 10 country) - we just don't want another NC blowoutJason:
Sorry you feel the way you do, but I think a number of comments on here from OSU fans are VERY classy, congratulating the Illini, showing good sportsmanship, etc.
Similar to what Chris said, the Buckeyes have exceeded my expectations this year, and while I'm disappointed to see them lose, if they couldn't win this game it's tough to make a case that they're one of the two best teams (although Illinois is a great team). I'll look forward to some sanity once the OSU hating blows over, and a great NC game (between whoever it is) and good Big 10 games.
Again, good luck to all.I grew up in California, and having lived in DC which I think is right in the middle of the north and south, I certainly have the opinion that the north and south thing is definitely at the heart of the Big10-SEC argument. The south resents getting their asses kicked, and the north resents having to foot the bill. We on the west coast wish we could disown you all. Pac10 rules!!!!!!LSU clinches SEC West today without even playing an SEC team. They will for sure be playing in Atlanta on December 1st. Guess we'll wait to see who will win the East.This Stewart guy cracks me up, hating on the southern states like he has been. Nevermind that the U.S. depends on the southern states for a whole bunch of things, including food, oil, and all that other stuff that apparently doesn't matter. The funny thing this person probably doesn't even realize or accept the fact that the southern states had a right to break off from the Union, especially since in the Presidential election, Lincoln wasn't even on the ballots in the south. Imagine if President Bush hadn't been on the ballots in the northern states, and he got elected. I'd be pissed too.Jake:
I appreciate your comment, and I suppose it depends on how you define "hatred" but the vast majority of comments I've seen seem to have a ton of negativity in them directed at the team, fans, etc., NOT objective comments about how OSU isn't one of the top 2 teams. THAT is why you get comments like Mary's.This post has been removed by the author.Larry don't take it personal if you weren't one of the OS fans last week giving me crap about SEC teams.
All you have to do is read the posts and you will see the whiners I was calling out. Do I think all Big Ten fans are classless? No of course not.
I have been to games as a visitor at Florida field and their fans are truly the most classless!
I may speak only for myself, but I think not. We are not as offended at OS for their #1 season long ranking as we are at the talking heads that kept them ranked there with a pathetically weak schedule.
I also know that fighting like I saw on TV is classless regardless who threw the first punch.Oh yeah, and if I recall from the history books, it was Lincoln who had the first shots fired, so technically the northern states forced the war. I'm not hating on Lincoln, and it definetly was a good thing that the U.S. did become whole again, but to say the 'south sucks' really is quite ignornant, and I'm ashamed you live in the same country as I do.Good point SasQuatch. Please disown us. Please. Just please don't throws us in dat briar patch. Please sa. Please don't throws us in da briar patch.Ah it never changes. Win or lose, someone always wants to resurrect the Civil War.
Ok . . I'll play this time.
W.T. Sherman did NOT burn Louisiana to the ground. He was one of the first Presidents (then called "superintendents" of LSU. Sherman Hall, on campus, is named for him.
So you will have to blame that infamous General in part for LSU's existence, if not it's recent football success. If he was from Ohio, then so be it.
As far as psychobabble from the PAC10 on the issue . . . hey, shakes and flakes . . . disown us all and find another place to "rule" . . it ain't working here!I have to agree on the whole "classiest coach" thing from Mary earlier. I'd branch that out, though, to include all of the Big Ten coaches as old school, humble and classy guys. I watch Tressel all of the time and agree he's a class act, win or lose.
But I disagree on how the fight at the end of the game reflects on the team. True, nobody knows who started it, but if you watch - at least this is what I personally saw - both teams were yelling at each other, but the Buckeyes were the ones who took it a step further and threw punches. I will never condone that, nor defend it. No matter who started it, OSU will end up on the short end of the stick looking like a sore loser. So, yes, in my eyes, it DOES bring them down a peg or two on the sportsmanship/class level and it's embarrassing for osu, tressel, and columbus. They need to learn how to win graciously AND lose graciously - just what Larry had said.
One thing that will be interesting is to see how far they fall, because sportswriters like Stew have been salivating to lower them in favor of other "better" teams...SoCal:
I think it depends on where you live. While living in Richmond, VA, I thought of myself as a yankee, but guess what? I was told by people in South Carolina that they considered people from Richmond to be northerners. Go figure.
As to disowning, you might be surprised to find that many in the north AND south might wish the same about CA! :)
As to the Big 10/SEC thing, I think it's not just those two conferences. In all seriousness, I think the fundamental problem is that too many people have their self-esteem linked to their team/conference, rather than to their own accomplishments, character and behavior. And/or maybe we just like to talk.Mandel, you are a freaking moron!For Jeremiahb - No bubble here for Tenn or GA. It just seems clear that Tenn is not one of the better SEC teams this year and Georgia is. I just thought GA had a chance against LSU, but in reality Fla is the only SEC team that can go toe to toe with LSU.
Ohio St has done well, but has measured itself against Big Ten competition. For Illinois to defeat them at 'their house' does not speak well of OSU. I was surprised and thought only Mich had a chance, but after today Mich needs help in more ways than one.
A while back I lifted a toast to Fla for it ride in football & basketball. That ride does not happen often. I would urge OSU fans to do the same for Ohio St. And for those who dump on OSU it is too bad but only Fla has provided a similar ride for its fans.Amen Larry. On that note I'll STFU.I think LSU-Oregon would be great, hope they can win out. Who knows, maybe WVU or KS or someone can sneak in there.
Just please no OSU or OU. Nothing against those schools, I'm sure they're both fine institutions...I just don't want another blowout...that's not asking too much, is it?SEC:
I get your point, and yeah there are plenty of idiotic comments to go around! I know I personally get a little "mentally irregular" (to quote Rocky) about this stuff, and I consider myself pretty sane most of the time! :)
I'll digress one more time, and mention an observation. After the tragic events of 9/11, as tough as it was for everybody we continued to play games. But at least to me (and I think to others) it was clear that there were other, more important things out there. Did it diminish the intensity? No, of course not. But it seemed to me that at the end of the games, there were more guys from both teams holding hands in prayer, and/or congratulating one another, etc. It seemed to really help put things in perspective, you know? I wish we could get back to those kinds of days, where the larger learnings of character and class and dignity and respect for others were the wins that both teams (and their fans) had, regardless of the actual score.
I was at a recent BYU home game, and it started off with a prayer. While I KNOW public schools can't (and shouldn't) do this, I have to tell you it felt VERY different. Hearing someone ask that both teams players play with honor, etc. really was different. And it felt like exactly the way it SHOULD be. I think it's great that BYU does that.
Enough ranting from me. Sorry for the comment, SEC_Rules, and I truly wish you all nothing but the best (even those who can't seem to keep from dragging the civil war back up). Good luck to all, and I'll look forward to you non-Big 10 folks being surprised by us in the bowl games! :)Larry:
Very interesting points, it's amazing how different regions within our country are. But wasn't Richmond the capital of the confederacy? Makes me wonder how people in south carolina could consider you a yankee.
We whine about how partisan this country is, but is it really any different than it's ever been? Democracy is all about recognizing our differences and finding a rational way to make compromises. At least that's what I thought when I was in school. We don't have to agree on everything, that's why I post here, I love arguing about things like football which really don't hurt anyone.h@gmail.comThese are tange times when pwople want to relive the civil war(almost 150 years ago) when talking about football.
OSU is a good team, but our expectations were not really that high this year, really. We do have 21 non-seniors on our team and will be better next year.
Having said that, the whole idea that the big ten sucks seems silly - they have been beating up on each other, much like the SEC, but perceptions seem to be that Big Ten teams lose to each other because they are no good, while SEC teams lose to each other because they are good. Georgia beat the heck out of Auburn today but barely beat Troy last week. There are many examples of this in both conferences, but again, the perception is much different for some reason.
Remember - the Big Ten was 2-1 against the SEC in the bowls last yearOhio State fans... You guys are (seriously) a class act. You beat our MSU Spartans year in and year out, but never rub our noses in it.
That being said, I was happy to see you lose, like many others, because I'm afraid the entire BIG 10 is weak this year, and am not sure you belong in the title game. It's nothing against your team.
You've had a great season, to be sure, but the whole conference is weak this year. Win next week (PLEASE beat the arrogant as*** from U of M), and go win the Rose bowl!!SEC_Rules:
I can't help but protest to your comment about values and prayer. Who defines them? If we're supposed to be about freedom of religion then that means that schools cannot have prayer sessions or stress values. Because you can't pray or stress values without a foundation, and those foundations are religions. Therefor it's impossible to pray or stress values without endorsing a religion. Hence the 1st amendment. What amazes me is that religious people don't get is that the 1st amendment is actually insurance for their beliefs.Before you Big Tenners get your groove on about last year's bowls, lets not over look a very important fact. You were playing our mid conference teams in the two games other than the national championship games which we won handily.
Our 2nd and 3rd best teams were playing in and winning other major bowls. Your 2n d best team beat our #4 team and your 3rd beat our #5 based on win loss records.
The overalls bowl records were SEC 6-3
Big Ten 2-4I am hoping for a big win in Ann Arbor, but unfortunately, UM has made the least of their talent this year and actually lost to a I-AA team. That brought down perceptions of the entire conference this year and even when we win, it will be minimizedA couple of comments:
1. Illinois played a great football game. Let's not detract from this. Give credit where credit is due.
2. Ohio State doesn't suck. Did everyone instantly forget the Penn State and Wisconsin poundings the last two weeks. Everyone knew it would be tough to go undefeated considering the Buckeyes' last four games (@PSU, UW, UI, @UM).
3. The referees called a TERRIBLE game. It took a body slam of Vernon Gholston for the refs to call one holding penalty.
4. You do NOT dance on the Block "O". That is CLASSLESS. Excuse Ohio State players for defending something that is very sacred to them and everyone associated with the university. Ohio State has been humble, classy, and respectful all season. They are not thugs.
5. (and most importantly) Most incidents that occur off-campus are by students who do NOT even go to Ohio State. Read the galorous arrest stats and find out for yourself. Similar to the now famous video of the Penn State fan harassing an OSU fan at a fratnerity party... the PSU fan goes to Pitt.
My Buckeyes let me down today in my last football game as a student there, but we can still beat M*ch!g@n and head to the Rose Bowl. Go Buckeyes!!!We did have a bad bowl season last year, except for when we played the SECSEC rules - I think you're wrong, I don't know all the figures but I do know that Big 10's 2nd best team last year was Mich., and they played (and gut their butt kicked by) USC.Even though I went to OSU and made the above comments, I do in fact think the SEC is strongest this year. But I think that thing have been much exaggerated by the pres, and Mandel in particularDid God make us throw those 3 interceptions today, or was it the devil?You'd think this year might be a poster child for a playoff system. I mean, at this point are there two teams which obviously deserve to play for the championship more than the others?
There is LSU and its SEC schedule -- and more than a couple wins decided by gutsiness/sheer dumb luck (depending on your perspective).
There is Oregon taking command of the Pac-10, but their loss came to a team that immediately turned around and reeled off three straight losses.
There is Kansas, which is still undefeated (with the Okla St game in progress at this point) and yet nobody seems to know how good they really are.
Then there are a passel of other one-lossers: OU, Missouri, WVU, OSU, BC, ASU.
Can anyone really say at this point that two of these teams are clearly better than all the others?Stewart (not Mandel), you rock. You are either just trying to get people emotional, or you are a 16 year old. Its ok, Stu. I remember the first time my parent's left me home unsupervised. Anyway, you entertain me, and I thank you.
Back to the adults. RE: "OSU hating", I do not think its personal and your schedule is not the fault of your team. Staking a claim as the top team in the nation without playing anyone in the top 25 is silly. Oh right, they played #25, but really. At least LSU, #1 again (with thanks) played a few gimmies, #7, and 4 other top 20 teams. An L is an L, but at least the L was to a top 20 team.
Back to Stu. Regurgitation (means throwing back up) of tother's words you heard around the dinner table does not an adult conversation make. Out.to shookjer_gopsu
You stated "Last year, if I recall correctly, the Big Ten was 2-1 against the SEC in bowl games. I'll give you the championship game. But the SEC got beat in the other 2 games. Funny how everyone forgets that!!!!!!!!"
SEC 1 (UF) plays Big10 1 (OSU), SEC wins
Big10 3 (MICH) plays Pac10 1 (SoCal), Pac10 wins
SEC 2 (Ark) plays Big10 2 (Wisc), Big 10 wins
SEC 3 (LSU) plays ND, ND loses so bad they're still losing
SEC 4 (AUB) plays Big12 2?3? (Nebraska), SEC wins
SEC 5 (UT) plays Big10 4 (PSU), Big10 wins
SEC 6 (UGa) plays ACC 4 (VT), SEC wins
Big10 8 (Iowa) plays Big12 4 (Tex), Big 12 wins
SEC wins 2 others (SC, UK)
Big10 loses 2 others (Minn, PUR)
So yeah, Big 10 beat SEC in 2 other games, by playing lower 'seeds'. Meanwhile, the SEC was pounding everyone else flat, and doing it with their lower 'seeds' against higher-finishing teams from other conferences (UK over Clemson, UGa over VT, Auburn over Nebraska) and Big 10 teams were losing to other teams - Iowa was expected, but Purdue lost of Maryland, and Minnesota lost the biggest all-time bowl comeback (again - in case you forgot, they did it already once in 2000 to NC St)
Big 10 underperformed last year, and they two SEC teams they beat were weaker teams in the conference standings, since LSU was busy winning a BCS game (while Mich was losing theirs) and the rest of the conference was beating higher-placed teams from other conferences (Big 12, ACC, etc)Jake:
I was using Wisconsin as your 2nd best based on season win loss records. They had better record than Mich. You are second Big 10 fan that said Michigan was the second best team. If you say Mich was 2nd best that is good enough for me.sec_rules: Oddly, yeah, I think this is a football blog.
And don't get me started on the number of immoral and obscene acts done by self-proclaimed religious persons, either hypocritically or with the covert or overt support of their religion.
Prayer and worship don't grant, in and of themselves, moral or any other kind of superiority. (Nor in football. "Touchdown Jesus" doesn't seem to be helping ND much this year, which seems to indicate that it is actual human beings on the field for ND like any other team ;)SEC Rules - yeah but if I remember right (I could be wrong) Wis. had better record than Mich. only after the bowl game - going in, they were tied record-wise, but Mich. had beaten Wis., so was 2nd in Big 10.Sometimes I wonder if people remember things well. Going into the bowls last year, Wisconsin and Michigan were both 11-1 going into the bowlsI think the comment that "SEC Rules" just made speaks for itselfSheesh.
Values, held by we and passed on to our children come from many institutions. Educational, religious, political, and through socialization via media and personal contact. Ultimately, as Adam Smith and later Kant noted, they come from within and are a matter of both faith and reason.
As a wise philosopher once sang "I don't believe that heaven waits for only those who congregate."
Obligatory observation on (interregional) politics and religion aside . . .
Condolences to tOSU fans. You have a good team and perhaps a great team next year. As Stewart (the Mandel one) indicates (which I think was taken wrong by some) you are not out of the BCS chase yet.
Congratulations to Illinois. I'm impressed!
One more . . .
Geaux Tigres!Sasquatch:
Thank you for your condolence and actually giving a thoughtful answer.Remind me not to need an ER doctor in Ohio. Clueless would probably be on duty.Ok, your dreams have come true.
But I didn't know Stew could look into the future.
Quote:
"Were they to meet an LSU or Oregon in New Orleans, the result would likely be similar to last year’s Florida beatdown."
Give me a break please.
To much bias on these blogs.
So the Bucks lose 1 game and they are crowned the losers.
I for one, know that it's a fact, every team will have a bad game or two, but to bury them, I don't think so, Oregon, LSU might just of turned out the other way and clearly upset some bloggers.
Go Bucks, a very nice run, two years and only 2 loses.ummmmm ?
I for one am glad it's over, now everyone can talk about LSU completely shredding Oregon or whoever instead of Ohio State.So, I'm sitting here watching this LSU vs. Louisiana Tech game. I'm sorry but this LSU team is garbage. Their QB Flynn wouldn't start for any other top 25 team. I mean seriously, two picks in the first half versus LA Tech? Its like this team plays when they feel like it. I couldn't vote this team number 1. I hate Oregon and Oklahoma, but this has got to be a joke. Thank God OSU lost. Whatever you people do, please dont vote LSU no. 1. They can't handle success and exposure.Ohio State got beat fair and square today. Congratulations to Ron Zook and the Illini.
That said, I do not know of one sports journalist who has enough sense to pound sand down a rathole. Stewie is just going with the flow because he doesn't want to be part of another Dewey-Truman debacle like last year.dfA great team (Ohio State) loses to a solid conference opponent (Illinois) and its a great thing for college football because the Big Ten is weak and everyone in the Big Ten sucks.
When LSU loses to a less than solid conference opponent (Kentucky) its no big deal because the $EC is so great and LSU will still play in the title game.
There is so much bias here its unbelievable. The Big Ten gets so respect despite having a great team (OSU) and many solid teams (Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, & Penn State).
Everyone forgets what happened last year in the Outback and Cap1 bowls.Does Oklahoma exist?LSU 20-7 2nd qtr. Go tigers!Just to clear things up before I start getting feedback from SEC fans, I actually am an LSU student. I graduate this year from the school and I wish them success, but the problem is that the players play when they want to and on their terms. I have no idea if its coaching by Miles or if its a discipline problem with the players, but it needs to be resolved. It just became 27-7 right before the half, but it doesn't hide the fact that this team is flawed. I told my buddies last night when I left Serranos (right outside the LSU campus)that this team will lose in the SEC Championship if they play Georgia. Its like we have a bunch of gangsters on this team. Everytime you watch them its late hits and un-sportsman like penalties. I'm done with my rant.I'm still waiting for arguments about why SEC home teams lose half the time? I say it's because there's no good teams in the SEC. Michigan would destroy LSU, and steal their coach. Which, if I was an Ohio State fan, I would be hoping for, that guy obviously recruits morons.LSU's problem is discipline, not talent. 110 + yards against Auburn is ridiculous.LSU up 27-7 end of 1st half. Go SEC!I was under the impression that OSU fans burned couches...not cars? Do I have that wrong? Maybe they're branching out; flipping burgers is hard work.
To those of you who feel that LSU losing to a Heisman candidate...in triple overtime...away, is similar to OSU losing to the ILLINI...at home...did I mention the ILLINI...I just have one thing to say. Yes, I want fries with that.
So what you're saying is that SM was right all along, and had the guts to never rank OSU #1 once?
At least someone got it right.I realize a big upset like today's brings out peoples' emotions, but come on guys. Can we leave the Civil War, religion and all-around bigoted remarks out of the discussion and stick to football?
I generally have few problems leaving these comments boards "ummoderated," but this one's testing my patience.The "system" seeks to objectify quantify who are "solid teams." It is called the top 25.Not to forget, WTG Illinois, that was a very well played football game, 1 flag I believe, nice going.
Good to see Ron Zook get his due, who actually was born in Ohio :-)
Congrats to IllinoisHey Mandel, here is the first line of your post, "At long last, our national nightmare is over."
Come clean, were you mauled by a buckeye in the previous off-season? I think you do have a point, but do you really have to make your hatred towards buckeyes so obvious? I am sure you will be partying hard tonight!
By the way, Illinois is good team. They have won against PSU, OSU, and UW (and almost UM) which is very unusual. Besides, I am glad that we have Ron Zook in the Big10 because he brings a game style that is quite different from the conventional Big10 style. As a result, Big10 teams may get better prepared for such Oregan-ish style of football which is being adopted by many teams all across the country.
Go bucks!!!Amen, Stewart Mandel.
I totally agree, and admire your patience.Mandel is rarely correct, but in this case, he actually has a point. As previously stated, religion does not belong in this conversation. Questioning my ability as a doctor because I am an OSU fan doesn't make much sense either. Either way, the bowls will give us a betteridea of who is good and who's not, an dwe can argue more then, i guess.SEC_Rules....
But everyone always says that any SEC school would beat a Big Ten team any day. So why do you cry wolf when a higher seeded Big Ten team beats an SEC team. PSU was 8-4 and UT was 9-3 going into the bowl game last year. Both were 5-3 in conference. Wisconsin was 11-1 and Arkansas was 10-3 going into the game. Both were 7-1 in conference. Both of those games seem fairly even to me. Both Big Ten teams were picked to lose..... and didn't.
Auburn (11-2) beat the might Cornhuskers (9-5) 17-14. That's impressive!
LSU beating ND means nothing, because ND had one of the most pathetic defenses in history last year.
Iowa (#8 in the Big Ten with a 6-7 record) nearly beat Texas (10-3) in the bowl game.
Forget about the other games, head to head it was 2-1 for the Big Ten. Past five year Big Ten is 8-6 head to head against the SEC. Your crap about the rankings is just an excuse. SEC fnas brag about how many SEC teams are ranked this year..... it just escapes me how they've got as many or more losses than other teams. There's a major bias towards the SEC.
Besides LSU-VT, what has the SEC done out of conference to prove that the SEC is so much better? Nothing! Their OOC schedule is as weak as any other conference.
Enough said!Good point Stew.... Unfortunately, idiots have blended in with our society and are hard to find until they open their mouths.... or type some words on their computer.Stewart--
I concur that the OSU loss today was an upset and agree that we should leave the Civil War and religion out of the discussion.
What's your read on an LSU / Oregon title game? My money says that the Ducks would waste LSU like they wasted Michigan, but I never have fully understood the SEC superiority rant, particularly from the sports journalism community.Wow - I guess comments about Mandel are not acceptableGo Hawkeyes!!! we may suck this year, but we beat Illinois! Oh and yeah, the Illini have been ranked this year jeremiahB. They've lost to Missou, and Michigan, two good teams no matter what anybody says, Illinois only bad loss is to Iowa, and that was at Kinnick, where the Hawks, no matter their record, always plays tough.
Big props to Illinois, I didn't like when they hired Zook b/c I saw this coming, and to OSU, wow, I have never seen such a classless losing team before... EVER!Being an Ohio St. fan I am totally depressed about todays loss. Congrats to the Illini, you deserve it. Go Big 10!
Now, did anyone see the Illinois players stomping on the block O? Totally classless regardless of who it is and what conference. Can you blame the players for getting upset?
Can someone please tell Mark May and Musburger to go back to their holes where they came from? Thanks.
Lastly, if all of you people talking about "we're the best" or "our package is bigger than yours" would be this dramatic and insane on our politics and issues we have in our country, we wouldn't be in such a mess.
Better things to be so crazy about ppl.
Go Buckeyes!!People, people... the Ohio State campus exists in a city of more than a million, which means that there are no shortage of idiots looking to cause trouble when given half a reason.
There's plenty of class in Columbus and on the team, so if a dumpster burns tonight don't be so quick to assume its a student holding the match.
As for the post-game scrum, is that any more classless than 70 Dawgs going all Riverdance in the endzone after a first quarter touchdown?OK so the bossman tells us we have to ignore the passions, positive or negative, which make college football so inspriring. Do you really think OSU fans would argue with SEC fans otherwise? The argument is half the fun, what else would we do during the week, work? Come on.
Having said that, how bout this for an argument i've never seen published...what if SEC teams had to come up north and play the Big10 in cold weather?Congrats to a good Illinois team they beat us fair and square. I have no qualms with giving them their due when it comes to football.
Allow me to say, however, that they showed a complete lack of class by attempting to dance on the Block O. That's where the OSU team prays after every game (win or lose) and there was no way the Bucks were going to let them dance there. When Vince Young beat the Bucks in the Shoe he went and celebrated with his fans, and acted like he's been there before. It's clear to me that Illinois COMPLETELY LACKED CLASS. Anyone who'd call OSU a "sore loser" for not letting the Illini dance on the Block O didn't really pay attention (i was at the game, so i had a very good view of the whole thing).
Illinois should have thought twice about doing what they did (post game). They might have beaten us this year, but most of the time the Bucks beat their brains in. I look forward to seeing that happen on a yearly basis. When you win, you should win with class, and ACT LIKE YOU'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE.Mich and Wisconsin were both 11-1 going into the bowl last year and Mich beat Wisconsin last year while Wisconsin and OSU did not face each other (though OSU would have taken Wisconsin to the woodshed last year)
Congrats to Wisconsin. Lloyd Carr is still 7-2 against you guys but you clearly deserved to win today.
To MR P (wonder what that stands for??) - Good to see that you are taking the sparty inferiority complex national!! Congrats on impoving to 2-5 in the Big Ten today!I am an Ohio State alum, and I have to say I was worried about potentially playing LSU in the National Title Game. But onto today's game. There is no doubt Illinois gave us their best shot, and kudos to them for shutting down our offense. This loss is solely on the Buckeyes for two reasons - 1. For not reviewing the fumble in the first quarter, and 2. For not running the ball since the Illini were having trouble stopping Beanie Wells. Here's to the Rose Bowl!And another thing...
Can we please, for the love of Pete, stop referencing rankings like its the end-all be-all of determining quality?
There are 119 FBS teams, 66 will qualify for bowl games, and to date 44 have been ranked at some point in the season, which means that many more than the Top 25 teams are capable of winning.Charles, OK??? Be real. OK lost to Colorado - Colorado lost to ASU - Oregon beat ASU. They should be behind ASU and OSU should fall to #10. Loosing to an unranked team."Should the Jayhawks manage to win out -- something that is far from guaranteed, what with 9-1 Missouri and possibly 8-1 Oklahoma remaining -- voters could have one heck of a dilemma on their hands." If KU remains undefeated, and does so by beating OU and Missouri -- the current #4 and #7 teams -- I don't see what the dilemma is.What I and most tired of is all the BIG TEN haters. I'd like to see any of those ACC or SEC or PAC Ten Teams play a single game North outside of a dome in Nov or Dec. They'd feeze their collective tails off. Additionally, I'm tired of hearing about the Big Ten loses two football games (National Championship game and the Rose Bowl and all of a sudden the conference stinks. Folks forget that even though Ohio State lost to Florida they maneage to beat Texas earlier. The real crimes is that there is no 8 team playoff system. I'd like to see the national championship game decided in January in Illnois, Indian, Ohio or Michigan. I know the BIG TEN fans would show up...not so sure about those fans from the ACC or SEC.Let's review...
(2) Boston College loses and drops 6 spots.
(2) USC loses and drops 8 spots.
(2) California loses and drops 8 spots.
(5) West Virginia loses and drops 8 spots.
(5) Wisconsin loses and drops 14 spots.
On average, these Top 5 teams dropped 9 spots after their first losses.
(1) LSU loses and drops FOUR SPOTS.
What are the chances Ohio State drops 4 spots like LSU after a similar loss, or 9 spots like everyone else?
Smells like poll bias to me.WHEEEE! Look, I know people are tired of hearing about Notre Dame, and everyone knows they suck, but seriously...lost in this OSU commotion is the fact that ND lost by 17 today. Not a big deal usually, but it was to another service academy. I mean, at least they took Navy to OT. This is the best news of all for Dome haters: they haven't improved one iota this year.
Bring on 8 more years of Charlie.Ohio State has played a weak schedule. Not its fault, the Big 10 has just not been all that great this year.
If Kansas wins out, it has to be in the BCS game. It will be the only undefeated team from a major conference. If KU wins out and does not get in the BCS champ game, then screw the whole system and go back to the old version where conference champs went specific bowls and #1 and #2 rarely met.
On other items:
Mark Richt should be considered for SEC Coach of the Year although Sly Croom will get it--getting Miss State bowl eligible and beating Alabama and Auburn in the same year is remarkable. I wonder how many coaches have ever done that. Richt has taken a young team, especially the offensive line and its 3rd string tailback--who is on his way to becoming one of the great freshman running backs in SEC history--to a shot at the conference title and/or a BCS bowl (if UGA wins out and Tennessee does then UT gets to play LSU, but UGA would likely be in the top 7 or 8 and get into a BCS bowl game. (okay I am a UGA grad so I am biased here).
SEC refs seem to have quick flags on the celebration penalties. Maybe it is because the players there go over the line more than in other conferences.
Has a team ever given up 70+ one week and the following week scored 70+? I doubt it. Funny to see all the Nebraska fans cheering like mad! Not that they should boo, but come on! I guess there is a lot of gestalt in Lincoln.
As for all the hostility about hillbillies and such, as someone who lived in the South for a good chunk of my life I found many of the northerners who moved there to be assholes. They come there and then want to change the place into exactly what they left. The saying goes "Delta is ready when you are."WOW........did Bama, the team that took LSU to the wire last week, really lose to Mississippi State.
SEC is a bunch of mediocre teams.let's please have a playoffStew - You are asking people to rise above their insecurities and biases. Not in our lifetime.You are asking people to rise above their insecurities and biases. For some not in our lifetime.Why isn't Hawaii being considered for the national title game? Sorry, not sure how this BCS thing works.How many more years do we have to endure such NCAA football madness without a playoff!? I hope Kansas plays Hawaii in the BCS title game!You Buckeye Bashers crack me up, including Mandel. What makes you fools think OSU would get blown out in the Title game "just like last year"?? Get out of the past!! It has nothing to do with this year. Your darling SEC National Champs Florida prove that. Talk about a disgrace to college football! How can the Defending National Champs lose 3 games (and counting), when just 10 months ago they were crowned #1? Don't tell me about losing players to graduation/NFL--OSU lost their whole offense! And WE are still in the thick of it this year, unlike Florida. Makes ya wonder if they REALLY desreved the Title, or just had a one-in-a-million performance. The point is last year is just that---LAST year! If last year was an indication of the present, then Florida would have been the 10-0 team, not OSU. Furthermore, would someone care to point out a college football team who has NEVER suffered a blowout??You know... being a Big Ten fan feels like what I assume being a Republican feels like. You want to say you're the best, but it's sure becoming hard to defend...Hey Mandel, why would you assume The Ohio State University would get killed in a championship game? Because of one game last year? What about this: OSU is 4-1 in BCS bowl games (including a national championship win) - no real school (excluding teams like Boise State and Penn State who are 1-0) has a better winnng percentage in BCS bowls than the Buckeyes. Yet because of last year's aberration you assume this team can't compete with the rest of the nation? Should we also assume then that USC won't be able to beat Stanford next year? Of course not - on any given day a bad team can beat a good team and in the case of the national championship game last year, a good team can destroy another good team.
Not to mention this - the uniforms are the same but this Buckeye team is completely different (mostly because most of last year's team now plays in the NFL).We've left football and moved to a "Civil War" debate. Wow! This blog has reached a new low. I hate the "SEC Vs. The World" debate, but it is a pleasure compared to this new one. Can we stick to football, please?What Ohio State has, above all, is Tradition. It will be this tradition which will help the Ohio State Buckeyes to hold their heads high and give it 110% during next weeks still highly anticipated game against Michigan.I agree with Stewart Mandel, leave the Civil War in the past. The only Civil War issue that's relevant is the upcoming Ducks' victory over the Beavers on December 1, to clinch their spot in the NC Game. GO DUCKS!rock chalk jayhawk!Has OSU ever beaten any thing involved with the Florida Athetics dept. Did they maybe get a win in tennis or something?The scraps from the SEC (Zook) is successful in the Big ten. Enough Said.come on man, what the fuck is up your ass? Just because you went to a communtiy college (Northwestern) and your daddy got you a job at an east coast magazine, does not mean that you have any authority to judge anyone about anything. When you get a real job and/or cover real events, maybe then you can throw down judgement upon people discussing issues which are relevant to this coutnry. Until then, never forget that your life is spent talking about other peoples' deed, and irrelevant ones at that. You are worthless.lol im not sure which michigan or penn state and for that matter ohio statw teams you idiots have been watching but when. and its been plenty. those teams have lost is hasnt been to teams that were to hot. lsu caught kentucky in the middle of in my opinion tha toughest stetch of games that any team has had to play this year. and barely lost, i mean barely. dint get me wrong i dont like 4 cliffhangers in a row but that just shows a teams character, and what the hell is critical cajun talking about, lsu smeared the heck out of la tech!The spelling/grammar skills of the SEC fans says plenty about their mental skills.I'm not a speller, im an engineer. I'm a numbers guy and a couple stick out in my head. 44-14 (we all know what that is) and 0-9 (osu's record versus the SEC in the last 20 years)
To me that equals our FOOTBAW is better than yours............This post has been removed by the author.I'm an OSU fan, & filled with rage about millions of things -- SEC ignants, Tressell's calling blitzes on late-game, pedictable draws, but most of all, OSU stadium-goers. Just because you're nervous doesn't give you the right not to cheer. Illini ran non-silent counts from shotgun on the biggest plays of the game -- our D had no advantage.
My vote -- let's turn this stadium into River Plate vs. Boca Juniors -- horns at all times, standing room seats, passion!Stewart lease provide your criteria for including/ blocking posts in your blog.Can someone tell me if there is a better coach in College Football (alive) than Jim Tressel ?
Be serious nowLet me start by saying that All college teams have their share of loudmouth knuklehead fans and The Ohio State University is certainly no exception. I find that usually, this type of fan didn't even attend the school to which they're so blindly devoted. If you don't ignore them, then you're probably one of them.
Any fan that expects to win the national championship, has not been
paying attention. It is quite possible to run the board in a BCS conference and still not get to play in the final game (just ask Auburn fans). The fact is that the "best" team(s) often do not win the title (see BYU 1984 etc.). The best you can do is, win all your games, and hope things work out in your favor.
To any true member of the Buckeye nation, the national title is very nice and all, but its just icing. The only thing that REALLY matters is beating "That team up north". To this extent, I did not savor the prospect of going to the Big House with another title game at stake, against a team that has nothing to loose. I'd much rather a team like Illinois be the spoiler.
Ohio has a wonderfully rich football history and tradition that is matched by few and exceeded by none. I wouldn't trade it for any other.I'd just like to know what the deal was with Illinois first touchdown...it wasn't. And what was the deal with all the holding that Illinois was doing that wasn't called...but one. C'mon. Sure looks like the fix was in.
Anyone but the SEC! Would be funny if they had a losing record again this year against the Big 10 and they open their big mouths!Wingnut
You have explained exactly what Big Ten Football is all about.
Ohio is rich in football talent.
Only thing is, you can't put them all on the same team, way to many excellent players coming out of this state.
Go Big TenWow . . passions are high.
So high, it looks like the original post by "Stewart" regarding pride at W.T. Shermans "burning of the South" to which I responded is now gone. Thank, Stewart (Mandel) for deleting that, but it makes my response look a bit silly. Oh, well.
To SoCal: wash your mouth out with soap.
To Big Ten fans: enjoy the "game of the century" this year. Two teams you recognize? Ok . . . well, I'm going with Wisconsin and/or Illinois for the Rose Bowl.
To the one who called LSU "garbage" . . . I forgot the final score . . 58 to 10, maybe? Yeah . . with third string in, I can see how you would discount the victory . . might want to keep watching, though, as LSU usually plays to the level of the competition and sometimes loses due to coaching mistakes.
Geaux Tigres!bd40pe:
For an engineer you are not to bright. To compare 1 team to an entire conference and expect them to have a winning record is rediculous. All you have proved is the entire SEC can have a winning record over 1 Big10 team. Try comparing the Big10 to the SEC over the SEC era.
Overall: SEC 17 B10 16
Bowl Games: B10 13 SEC 11
# of winning Bowl seasons: B10 5 SEC 2 (2 ties)
When B10 is higher ranked team: 6-6
When SEC is higher ranked team: B10 5 SEC 4
When both unranked or same rank: B10 2 SEC 1
I would hardly call this dominating .@Matt:
Man, Civil War and religion are bad enough... don't drag politics into it!
@evildog:
If I remember correctly, (and this is based from memory) LSU is 3-0 in BCS games. All in the Sugar, ironically. And Illinois was one of those wins. Of course, in 2003 there was this down-on-their-luck Florida team that handed LSU their only loss of the season. And guess who was the coach? The Zooker himself.
As far as the SEC "Superiority" issue: will I always consider my SEC to be the best? Heck Yeah! I'm an LSU fan! I would expect no less from Big10, Pac10, big12, ACC, da da da... you get the point. The only real way we have to compare the conferences is by rankings and the rare matchups that no big school does very often. I personally would love to play in the big house in Jan, provided you would be willing to play in tiger stadium in the heat and humidity of Sept. Heck, I watched the Indy Bowl one year in several inches of snow! That was awesome! Of course, I don't think that the LAWN MOWER they used was quite up to the task of keeping the field clear. They ended up just guestimating the yard markers and keeping the goal lines cleared. I imagine that there were some nefarious calls in that game, but the players looked like they were having a blast!
We do get more Pac10-Big10 match ups regularly. I can only imagine that this is due to the inter conference history in the Rose Bowl. Overall, the only way to figure any of this stuff out is to get the match ups and see who wins. Bowl games and the BCS are what we got. I still don't see any reason we can't have a playoff system like every other college sport. Big10, your conference is one of the biggest downing a playoff. Something to do with not wanting to play games after Thanksgiving? I call B/S. If that were really the case, then why does OSU get to play in the BCS Championship? It was AFTER the supposed cut-off date.
Anyway, I have to say that the constant back-and-forth bantering from college football fans is part of what makes this my favorite sport to watch. I think the worst thing about this season is that it will be ending in January. I hope my team gets to play in the "last game". There is truly nothing like college football Saturdays!
Oh, and GEAUX TIGERS!All of the ranting and raving that goes on about how one team or conference is better than another is silly. The truth is there is no way to reasonably measure the relative quality of teams that play different schedules in different conferences. No one really knows what the pecking order would be if the top 16 or so teams in the country actually got to compete in a playoff. If you don't believe this, look at NCAA basketball where there are polls, rankings, and a playoff. The number one ranked team in the country going into the NCAA basketball tournament rarely wins and teams ranked below #25 sometimes emerge as Champion beating everyone else in their path. By contrast, the NCAA football championship is as much a beauty contest as it is a sports competition.Okay, here's the way I see it.
The best two conferences year-in and year-out are usually the SEC and Big 10.
I'm a LSU alumni and my wife went to Wisconsin so it's nice to be able to agree with her on something.
The Big 10 is down this year, but it won't stay down.
If you're a Big-10 fan or SEC fan and don't place the other conference as the second-best conference (year-in, year-out) then I'd be surprised. There's a reason we have so many inter-conference bowl games.
When we talk about weak conferences we are usually referring to the usually top-heavy PAC-10 and Big-12 (although the Big-12's championship game can go a long way towards redeeming a weak regular season slate).
You're not going to see a Big 10 or SEC team get 70+ points scored against it by a conference opponent one week and score 70+ points on another conference opponent the next week.
You won't see Ohio State run the score up over 70 on Minnesota or Northwestern. Nor will you see Florida run up the score that high on Vanderbilt (at least now that Spurrier isn't there anymore).
That said, both the PAC-10 and the Big 12 have some pretty good depth this year so they deserve the respect.
If Kansas wins out and get's passed over by a 1-loss team and doesn't go to the National Championship then there's something seriously wrong with the BCS.“Let's review...
(2) Boston College loses AT HOME TO AN UNRANKED (6-3) FSU and drops 6 spots.
(2) USC loses AT HOME TO AN UNRANKED (2-3) STANFORD and drops 8 spots.
(2) California loses AT HOME TO AN UNRANKED (4-3) OREGON ST and drops 8 spots.
(5) West Virginia loses TO NO.18 (4-0) USF ON THE ROAD and drops 8 spots.
(5) Wisconsin loses TO AN UNRANKED (5-1) ILLINOIS ON THE ROAD and drops 14 spots.
On average, these Top 5 teams dropped 9 spots after their first losses.
(1) LSU loses ON THE ROAD TO NO. 17 KENTUCKY (6-1) IN TRIPLE OVERTIME and drops FOUR SPOTS.
What are the chances Ohio State drops 4 spots like LSU after a similar loss, or 9 spots like everyone else?
Smells like poll bias to me.”
I took the liberty of inserting some conveniently omitted facts. If you want to make a convincing argument, leave your personal emotion out of your post. Every one on the planet knew that OSU was the benefactor of being in the right place at the right time. Every team in front of them lost as the weeks progressed until OSU was at the front. OSU has a good team this year, nobody is denying that, but they haven’t convinced most of the nation --or Buckeye Nation for that matter-- that they are a National Champion caliber team; not this year, maybe next year though when they return the key studs. LSU --as is commonly the biggest target for arguers—has not played like that team either save one game this year (No. 9 VA Tech in Baton Rouge). If LSU doesn’t clean up the penalties and get some sort of rhythm over the last couple of games, then ANY prepared team will destroy them as well. As a Tiger fan, I hope that that does not happen, but I have no problem facing reality. LSU has an unbelievably talented team, but the fact is that they have yet to pull it all together. As for all of the LSU fans that continually denigrate other schools and insult teams and their fans…grow up, show some respect to the game and have some class.
GEAUX TIGERS!!!Yeah, I called LSU garbage. They play like it. Excuse me for not getting excited about a 58-10 whooping of Louisiana Tech. Considering Matt Flynn looked aweful for a prolonged period of time during the first half, I'd be more concerned about my QB losing the game for me in the SEC Championship. This is an LSU Tiger fan thats just tired of this team playing like crap for a half and deciding to play the last quarter or so. I'm almost thoroughly convinced that if this national championship was played anywhere but New Orleans, aka Gangsta City, that they would lose to Oregon or Oklahoma. Just tired or the ridiculous attitude this team has. The score doesnt indicate how God aweful LSU was in first half. Louisiana Tech actually out gained them in total offense in the first quarter by 30 yards.Wow. Apparently the Big XII (with 3 teams soon to be in the top 6) really blows.
SEC and Big 10 fans get more entertaining every year.Stewart, stop living in the past for crying out loud. This is a football blog.
As this is Veteran's day weekend Stewart, let me give you a quick run down on the "modern" army. 39.7% of US Army is from the South (the most from any region), so I find your comments about the south to be pointless, especially the "traitor" comment.
I am in Iraq on a 15 month rotation and let me tell you how much college football means to our morale. Having intense rivalries is what makes college football fun, but how in the heck you make the stretch and bring in the Civil War and insult a whole region of the US is beyond me. By the way, I was blessed that Armed Forces Network decided to show the UGA-AU game.
This weekend, I ask all college fans to keep us in their thoughts and prayers. God bless America.From where I sit out here in the West, Oklahoma is a bigger fraud than Ohio State but OK gets a pass. OK gave up 55 to USC in their last title game and then complained at Oregon when their db got burned after the onsides kick, and last year lost to Boise St. How come OK gets a pass? Is it just because OSU loss to Florida was more recent than OK's losses?Hate to break up the "our 6th place team can beat your 6th place team" conference superiority battle, but anyone else think Kansas deserves the #1 spot now? The top 3 schools in the Big 12 will likely be in the top 5, and for Kansas to stay unbeaten, they'll have to beat the other 2 (Mizzou in a couple of weeks and OK in the championship game). So, if KU is a fraud, they'll get exposed anyway, and if they're for real, can anyone justify leaving an undefeated Big 12 team out of the championship game when no other major conference has an unbeaten? Here's hoping for an Oregon-Kansas game just to annoy the BCS-loyal when the ratings are low.Do you know how many times OSU has danced on the Block I and no one from Illinois has ever started a fight about it.
Lets just call it what it was, anger and frustration for losing a hard fought game and move on. I'm sure Tressel will handle the clowns that were throwing punches and I'm sure Zook will let his boys hear it for taunting.
(Illinois Fan by the Way)
As far as the SEC Big Ten debate, who cares? Oregon clearly has the best "loss" if you can call it that. They were six inches from winning and lost the handle on the ball.
BTW Thanks Florida, how's Urban Meyer working out for you now that he doesn't have Zook's recruits.OK certainly gets a pass. They were everyone's darling before the season, even though they have a freshman QB.
They've beat a horrible Miami team, a not so great Texas team and Missou.... Still not sure how good they are. They beat Illinois the first game of the year and lost to OK. Not much to brag about there.1. This anti-Big Ten bias crap has got to stop now. There is no sense in dropping Ohio State in the polls. I believe they should be above Oklahoma. Compare the losses. I think Oklahoma is a fraud for being up big at halftime and then was dominated on every snap in the 2nd half against Colorado and lost. OSU and Illinois were in a dogfight the whole game.
2. The referees were HORRIBLE. It took a body slam of Vernon Gholston in the 2nd half to call one holding penalty against Illinois. For those watching, it seemed as though Illinois was holding on half the plays. Why isn't this being talked about?????
3. The Illinois players are CLASSLESS. You do NOT dance on the Block "O" and think it's OK. Give Ohio State players credit for not letting Illinois taunt them and the entire university. Tressel has instilled the highest amount of character top to bottom that OSU's storied football program has ever seen.
4. Mandel, you've been with OSU fans through thick and then. Now that it's sexy to jump all over Ohio State, you are jumping on the bandwagon. Way to rub salt in the wound of a team that may end up winning the Rose Bowl after a single, hard-fought loss against an Illinois team that played their hearts out every snap.
O-H-I-O! Go Buckeyes!!I agree it was not the best game by the Buckeyes and that they had many mistakes however it would have been an entirely different game if the non-fumble was ruled a fumble and the Buckeyes went up by two touchdowns. The refs missed a number of calls but that still does not excuse the Buckeyes mistakes...and OSU lost in their own houseIt was an exciting game to watch for me, especially because I was at the 1956 game at Champaign when the Illini upset number 1 ranked Michigan State. That day Abe Woodson rambled for yards necessary to get Illinois a 13-12 win. Go Illini.Hey Mandel
Those are extremely cheap shots you are taking at Ohio State. Will not forget your comments particularly the last one. I said to many OSU fans this week that Illinoi is a dangerous team and that if we turned the ball over and they played mistake free they could take us. Well look what happened on the way to the NC game. Three pix by Ohio St and absolutely perfect football by Ill. No penalties until holding in the fourth quarter and not one turnovers. The first quarter fumble that should have been reviewed and for some odd reason was not should not be latched onto by Bux fans. There were 3 and half quarters of football to be played from that point on and that had nothing to do with the outcome.
We lost because we squadered the first and goal with an interception and because our "vaunted" defense could not get the ball back in the 4th quarter.
Congrats to Ill and Ron Zook. Do the Big Ten pround in the Cap One Bowl or whatever SEC team you meet.
Ohio St will live on to beat Michigan and go to the Roses where who knows. This was supposed to be a rebuilding year so let's learn and move on.
For you Bux fans still hoping for a one loss shot at the national title game forget it...people like Stewart who have the votes do not like us and will not put us in it.
Go BuxIt was an exciting game to watch for me, especially because I was at the 1956 game at Champaign when the Illini upset number 1 ranked Michigan State. That day Abe Woodson rambled for yards necessary to get Illinois a 13-12 win. Go Illini.I agree with you Kwill, and.. Kansas looked more impressive against the Cowboys than Texas did. All this conference talk is subjective anyway. That's why we have bowl games (as well as being cash cows)and should cap seasons at 10 games and go with a playoff.
Seiously though, if Texas or Oklahoma was 10 and 0 right now. nobody would object to and #1 ranking. It doesn't matter that the Big 12 north looks flat out better than the south right now.
Undefeated is undefeated in a major conference - nuff said. Except lol, playoffs would and should let ANY 1A team take a run at undisputed #1. Otherwise let's go with a Premier League and just tell the Boise States etc of the world that they don't cut it because - hey you ain't rich enough!! Bring on 1 and 2 from the majors and 4 non majors. 4 games and win the national championship. Is that really so tough? TV execs take note, the one game I loved last year was OU/Boise - just classic fun football. Why 'The Land of the Free' is so afraid of open competition is beyond me. Let's settle the talk on the field@Eric
Eric the non-fumble hurt but you kow what hurt more was the second "non-fumble" when late in 2nd quarter their wide reciever caught the ball tucked it away took two steps and was hit and fumbled and Laurinaitus picked it up with an open field and a "convoy" of blocker in front of him.
We would have had the ball on their 20 (at least) score tied at 14 and 4 minutes left in the half. Instead bad call by ref call the fumble incomplete pass and Ill goes on to score and take the halftime lead.
TV people never even talked about it. I watched the play four times on tivo and it was clearly a catchMistake #1: Why didn't the OSU coaching staff call time out after the Illini first drive "fumble" to provide time for a an official review?
Mistakes #2, #3, #4: OSU QB tried to force passes (resulting in INTs) on early downs. Showed no patience.
Mistake #5: OSU coaching staff was not prepared for the last punt formation, called time out, and gave Zook time to make an intelligent decision.
Five reasons OSU goes to the Rose Bowl instead of New Orleans.I guess will see how much the media hates the Buckeyes this week. If they were LSU they would only drop to 3rd. With that said. I'm a huge Buckeye fan, and they looked horrible yesterday. Hats off to Illinios(their coach is from Loudonville, OH). I don't like this new habit they Bucks have of coming out flat atleast once per year.@pagecompass
What you call mistakes are part of the game. Making a decision to throw a pass or eat is what distinguishes a victory from a defeat. Boeckman's interceptions were a very big part of our defeat no question but what stays with me is that his last interception with 8:09 to play in the 4th quarter was the last time we saw the football. We were supposedly the #1 defense in cf and Juice and Ill kept the ball for the final 8:09 of the game in our house on national tv.
Face it we lost and they won the game fair and square.Ohio State will fall to #8 in the polls and with a big win at Michigan and losses by all the other one loss teams could be in the nc game. Crazier things have happened this year.OSU better step up next week, Bucks can't be the team that lost to the team that App St beat. Plus, I enjoy hearing the grumblings about Carr all year. It's time to take out the embarrassment of the Illini loss, and drag that team up north to the woodshed.The real question this week; Why are Notre Dame Games still being televised on National TV...There are clearly better games than watching Notre Dame get beat up by another service academy...Let's get one thing perfectly straight------the SEC is over-rated, way over-rated.
Sportswriters have been so enamored with the SEC, the might as well have blinders on. Stuart Mandell at SI and others think LSU (9-1) should be at #1 in the rankings. Why?
Because the've beaten teams like Middle Tennessee, Tulane, LA Tech, and an OVER-RATED team like South Carolina? When they beat a 3-7 Mississippi next week, or a 6-4 Arkansas the following week------will that make them more powerful?
Now let's look at the "ranked" teams LSU did beat this season.
They beat Virginia Tech (8-2). Respectable until you see VT's schedule. The only other ranked team VT played, (and lost too) was Boston College, (who just lost to a 5-5 Maryland) .
In September they beat a over-rated (then #12) South Carolina team that the "sportswriters" OVER-RANKED because of their coach ( Steve Spurrier). South Carolina is now at 6-5 after getting stomped by Florida. (I'll get to Florida in a minute)
LSU finishes the season off by playing a 3-7 Mississippi and a 6-4 Arkansas, (who just got beat by a respectable 7-3 Tennessee) But in Tennessee's three losses, (45-31 to Cal , 59-20 to #9 Florida, and 41-17 to Alabama) shows me a Tennessee-lite team.
Which brings us to the "best" victory LSU has had this season, defeating (at the time) a #9 Florida 28-24. After Florida went 4-0 they lost the next three out of four games. The lone win was against a respectable (7-3) Kentucky 45-37. You all remember KENTUCKY, they beat LSU this year 43-37 before losing the following week to a now #15 Florida 45-37. This years former national champs (Florida) can't beat a top ten team to save their lives, but don't tell LSU this wasn't their "BEST VICTORY" of the season------ Just tell some one else LSU is numba one! Right up to the point when they play against some real competition and lose.
At 9-1 LSU belongs in the top ten, maybe even the top five in the nation. But with their strength of schedule this year, I rank them at number 4 or 5. Then again, I'm not a sportswriter, so what would I know?I've been in Ann Arbor...she's not that great!@Rovin
With you on the SEC thing. But we really have to wait for Bowl season to play out to see just how good all of these conferences are. I personally think that the SEC is the deepest conference this year. I base that upon watching a crapload of games all the way through.
Agree with you about S Carolina and even Kentucky. People slammed Ohio State for their ooc schedule but we played Kent St at home an so did Kentucky. Compare the stat lines. Kentucky was in a dog fight and was tied at half at 14.
Ohio St was ahead like 35 -0 at half and the game was a laugher.
Looking ahead to some bowl matchups it is clear that Illinois will be going to Capital One or Citrus Bowl. Might they pair Zook and Ill with Florida??? That would be a classic.
Ohio St should take care of Lloyd Cooper and Mike Heartless and do the conference proud in the Rose Bowl.
Go BuxBuckeyeboy9,
We will have to see the season play out----agreed. But I stand firm on the SEC "glitter". Of course, I'm a longtime Pac 10 fan and I would submit that few teams in the east or southwest could hold a candle to half the pac 10 this year. It's just the "sports-media" that bugs me. They don't think football is played west of the Mississippi, until they get stomped by a west coast team. If it wasn't for OSU (Ohio),and Michigan, even the Big Ten (or is it 12) would be overlooked. But I'm biased, of course.There is no shame in losing to Illinois. They outcoached and outplayed OSU. OSU lost Smith, Gonzalez, Ginn, Pittman, etc. No one thought they would be competing for the national title and they won't. If they win out it is still a great year.
If OSU's key players return (Jenkins, Gholstin, Laurenitis, etc.) THEN we should have title expectations next year.
Only in SEC world can a loss to Kentucky or Mississippi or Mississippi State or Vanderbilt or a very average Alabama team be considered a "good" loss and indicative of conference strength. Georgia the most overrated team in the country at the moment. I do think LSU v. Oregon would be a good, fair, matchup but if Kansas runs the table they should be in the game.To UGA in Iraq (and others):
Please know that your service to our country, and your bravery and courage, are very much appreciated by those of us back in the States. On this Veteran's Day weekend, we do what we should be doing every day--honoring those who have put themselves in harm's way, and sometimes paid the ultimate price, to help ensure freedom lives.
At OSU yesterday, they played clips of Buckeye fans stationed in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I'm hoping the same was true at other stadiums throughout the U.S. It was great to see. Regardless of "spirited" and "logical" team and conference debates, all of us back home share one common wish: that you stay safe and come back soon.
Take care, and thanks again for your service!Yes, it turns out that Ohio State was not the best team in the country. I fully expect that due to their respective losses yesterday both OSU and UM will drop out of the top 100, just as LSU did when they lost to Kentucky (guffaw).
However, our long national nightmare is not over, at least not until Oregon wastes whatever SEC team happens to drift into New Orleans on a raft of journalist bias and hubris.Stewart Mandell can go screw himself. Sounds like a Michigan fan to me. National nightmare? Sounds a little harsh to me... Ok, so Ohio State lost, there were some bad calls i.e. the fumble in quarter #1 which ref's couldnt see if the ball was stuck to their forehead. Oh well, they gave up alot of points because some guy named Jizz or Juice or whatever has no arm... Hey, you remind me of this guy who likes to murder dogs. Yeah, keep running that ball you talentless p.o.s. You'll never amount to anything. Oh well, OSU will be #1 again next year... Hopefully go on to win another championship, now its a championshit game without OSU. Yeah, let's put a couple of 10-1 temas in there and neither be OSU. I really hope Kansas gets a spot. Because if they don't, this BCS is BS.....For all of you OSU fans complaining about the "fumble"; complain to the coach. He has this little red flag in his pocket for events just as these. If he decided it was not worth it to protest this call then you have no complaint.An excellent synopsis of what so many of us around the country were feeling. It is so obvious that strength of schedule is so important in determining BCS rankings when there is no playoff. Ohio is not a great team again this year - every game I have seen them play leaves me wondering afterwards about the football IQ of sports writers who said that team was the best in the nation. Two years in a row. Was driving me crazy. I like Kansas for #1 NOW. Why? They are undefeated. LSU #2. Oregon #3. OU #4. And the way the Gators are playing, Florida #5.An excellent synopsis of what so many of us around the country were feeling. It is so obvious that strength of schedule is so important in determining BCS rankings when there is no playoff. Ohio is not a great team again this year - every game I have seen them play leaves me wondering afterwards about the football IQ of sports writers who said that team was the best in the nation. Two years in a row. Was driving me crazy. I like Kansas for #1 NOW. Why? They are undefeated. LSU #2. Oregon #3. OU #4. And the way the Gators are playing, Florida #5.Everyone will point to this loss and say Ohio State should have never been #1 to begin with, and maybe so. The fact is Ohio State only got there because everyone ahead of them stumbled and they took care of business week after week. I feel no shame in losing to a quality Illinois team. Although disappointed that they lost, I believe this season has gone well for the Buckeyes. I came into the year expecting 3 losses (Penn St,Wisc, Mich). Everyone seems to forget that this is a rebuilding year. Did anyone honestly think Ohio State would be in this position given all the talent they lost? We still have a shot for the Rose Bowl and I am confident they will perform well in Michigan.
As far as the best conference? Everything is cyclical. I'll admit this is an off year for the Big 10, but the SEC is hardly the best this year. They are the most inconsistant, but not the best. Tennessee got beat down in their 3 losses. I was at the game in Knoxville to watch Georgia get mauled by Tennessee. Good teams play well week in and week out, they may lose a close game, but they don't get blown out like many of the SEC's top teams have (except LSU & Florida). Since Auburn got the shaft in '04, everyone has jumped on the SEC bandwagon as if to make up for dissing a 13-0 team. Conference power shifts from year to year, last year the SEC was the best. But before annointing the SEC as the toughest conference, how about giving some credit to the PAC-10 (who finally caught up to USC) or the Big 12 (3 teams in the top 10).
All things considered, I love the conference debate. It brings out the passion in the fans; a passion that is unrivaled in any other sport. The SEC is the best in one category though; hottest girls. Their women are as sweet as their tea. I know there are some hot Big-10 girls, but it's hard to make 7 layers under a hooded sweatshirt and a ski cap look sexy. Advantage SEC.
Go Bucks!Stewart,
Can you please put a one post limit on this blog to keep it from being a teenage chat room?
OSU fans, last week I said you will be disappointed; you've still got some more disappointment in store. The easy ones are gone, now it's time to play football instead of scrimmaging.I agree with Sara's comment. Kansas should be #1 with their win. I watched all the top teams play yesterday and I have to admit, the Florida game was top grade CF entertainment again. Tim Tebow is the most talented total QB I have seen play the game this year. A sophomore? Somebody has to have that stat wrong... he plays like a senior. What a leader on the field. How can this guy rack up these numbers when everyone on the field is gunning for him game in and game out? If hadn't been playing hurt in the Georgia game...I agree with Sara's comment. Kansas should be #1 with their win. I watched all the top teams play yesterday and I have to admit, the Florida game was top grade CF entertainment again. Tim Tebow is the most talented total QB I have seen play the game this year. A sophomore? Somebody has to have that stat wrong... he plays like a senior. What a leader on the field. How can this guy rack up these numbers when everyone on the field is gunning for him game in and game out? If hadn't been playing hurt in the Georgia game..."An excellent synopsis of what so many of us around the country were feeling. It is so obvious that strength of schedule is so important in determining BCS rankings when there is no playoff. Ohio is not a great team again this year - every game I have seen them play leaves me wondering afterwards about the football IQ of sports writers who said that team was the best in the nation. Two years in a row. Was driving me crazy. I like Kansas for #1 NOW. Why? They are undefeated. LSU #2. Oregon #3. OU #4. And the way the Gators are playing, Florida #5."
I'm puzzled as to which games you watchedThis post has been removed by the author.Stewart Mandel:
You should be ashamed of yourself and your managing editor should be soul searching for allowing such a classless lack of integrity to be published. Even if you thought the Buckeyes didn't deserve to be in the NC game again (for your personal OSU hating reasons) you forget that every player on that field is a student and person laying it out every weekend in an effort to give their best to reach a goal and provide sporting entertainment for the rest of us.
Sports writers are obviously unable to separate last year and this year and do what they a are charged with doing...that is rate based on performance and results. Mark May (ESPN) predicted this upset but he also was stupid enough to say he thought LSU and Oregon were the best teams because they had the most talent. Why don't we just analyze the talent on paper, not play the games, spare all the expense and injuries, and proclaim the NC without any games??
To all you other OSU haters, what would your team do if another team attempted to go out to the center of YOUR field and celebrate and taunt the players and fans?
Shame on Illinois for tarnishing their well earned victory by doing such a thoughtless act. They could have just celebrated on the sideline and in front of their fans (like the "classless Buckeyes" do) when they win on the road, respecting the "house" of the other team.
So what now Mandel? With OSU returning all but 2 of their starters (including kicking) are you and the writers going to continue with your OSU hating ways and rank them anywhere but #1? If you do that then you will once again be changing your criteria (talent) for ranking, but then again, as long as it suits your fancy, you'll do whatever.
If the Buckeyes win out, why shouldn't they be ranked number 1 in the pre-season next year? With almost everyone returning from the one team that held the number 1 ranking for the longest the year before you've put yourselves in another precarious position. If they are ranked one, all the haters will come out again regardless of the reality and if you don't, you further expose yours and the other writers' agenda of manipulating the system for what you want and not what is the reality.
Again, shame on you and your classless bashing of hard working students by saying the "nightmare is over". As for the the rest of the country, the Buckeye nation knows that it is and always will be us against the nation. Hatred and jealousy always comes out when you are on top and the Buckeye sports program is and has been the top program in the country, much to all of your disliking and dismay. Get over it and stop hating and maybe your souls will rise and not sink.
Good luck to the Buckeyes and here's hoping they will beat Michigan and appear in the Rosebowl. It is officially beat Michigan week and all Buckeye fans know this is the most important week of the football season, NC game or no NC game.
Regardshow about Illinois in the Capital One Bowl against Florida??? Zook against the Gaytors. What ya say bowl boys....line em up!Go Bucks!
All i have to say about the whole article is this Stew You say that America didnt want he Bucks in the NC game is say Bull! I'm American and i certanly wanted the Bucks there And for everyone else ....well i hope that they wanted there favorite team there too..... Kinda makes sense doesn't it? Just because we lost to a decent team doesn't make us any worse than any of the other one loss teams just ranked less. Th SEC will be exposed! come bowl time.... till then we'll just enjoy living in the heart of football OHIO!"I agree with Sara's comment. Kansas should be #1 with their win. I watched all the top teams play yesterday and I have to admit, the Florida game was top grade CF entertainment again. Tim Tebow is the most talented total QB I have seen play the game this year. A sophomore? Somebody has to have that stat wrong... he plays like a senior. What a leader on the field. How can this guy rack up these numbers when everyone on the field is gunning for him game in and game out? If hadn't been playing hurt in the Georgia game..."
lol, silly florida fansWhy is Ohio State completely eliminated from the national title picture? A lot can still happen. They lost to a very good team and play in one of the nation's best conferences. There's no doubt in my mind that Illinois can play with Kentucky or Cal for God's sake. Enough with this bias Mandel. Just admit that you know nothing about football. Go get a law degree or something. How can anyone who so idiotically jumped on the South Florida bandwagon be considered a reliable authority on college football? Call me a sore loser, but when I compare schedules and rosters, I'm not seeing such a grand difference between, LSU, OSU, Oregon, Okalahoma, Kansas, etc. etc. When Oregon and LSU and Oklahoma lose, it's an anomaly which means nothing. OSU loses, it indisputable proof that they're no good. What a joke. What if Ohio State blows out Michigan like Oregon blew out Michigan? What then?Chris @ 11:05 AM:
Your post wreaks of ignorance and inconsistency.
Number one: why would you put down undefeated OSU as unworthy of being number one base on strength of schedule and come back and say "Kansas , why? because they are undefeated"....I laugh at you outloud because of your conflicting statements. It's not because Kansas is undefeated and played a strong schedule (which they haven't) but because they are "undefeated"..lol AGAIN!
Secondly, the season is more than now and the last game you played. Granted, Florida played a good game last night but they haven't performed the whole year, which is what being top ranked means. Let's not look at the first 8 -9 games of the season and rank based on the last 2 or 3??????
You make me laugh at your analysis and justifications for your favorite teams. If you didn't like Florida so much I would think you are a Pac-10 fan, year after year they seem to think what matters is who is playing best at the end of the year and to hell with th whole rest of the season.......self serving and convenient, for losers. Every game counts and Florida has lost 3 and shouldn't be mentioned in THIS year's NC talk. Next year is a different story. I am looking forward to a more mature Tebow and think he has a great chance of becoming only the second player in history to win 2 Heisman's, the other is from TOSU!
RegardsYes, Stewart, you are correct. In fact, why don't we all agree to simply make the SEC title game a national championship play-in game.ffsdfStew, good article. You are right on. Big 12 is stronger this year than the Big Ten. SEC and Pac 10 the strongest. But you have to give the nod to Kansas right now. Like others, I think some great 1, 2 and 3 loss teams will have some entertaining bowl games this holiday season. Looking forward to them. I am, like the OSU guy earlier, tired of the knuckleheads who post things like "Gayters" and "Luckeyes". And, as far as the Heisman goes, I agree Tim Tebow is hard to say no to... and I am an Oregon fan.And to all the people who want to say the Big Ten is trash and the SEC is king, don't frget that in last year's bowl games, the Big Ten beat the unbeatable SEC in 2 out of 3 games.Dink - learn to read, please. If I didn't know any better, I would say your post wreaked of idiocy. Google this: "Quotation Marks"Way to call it like it is Stewart!
@Dink we are all relieved to see the posers without a schedule finally exposed. I am disappointed LSU will not to get to give the Buckeyes an even more embarrassing beating than we gave them last year though.
@ Buckeyeboy9 "Gaytor" come on either grow up or have your mommy check your post before you click publish.
Finally, Conrats to Ron Zook for doing what needed to be done. Illinois is my favorite Big 10 team now.Chris,
I like Kansas for #1 NOW. Why? They are undefeated.
Ok, above was cut and pasted from your post.
Sorry I didn't get the exact wording before but you understand the point....just as the sportswriters and rest of the Buckeye haters, you apply double standards in your analysis.
You can't, with any credibility, (important qualification and I'll explain it to you if need be) say another team is unworthy based on win loss record, not considering strength of schedule and turn around and declare another team as number one because "they are undefeated". Because the reality of it is that Kansas has been held down in the rankings BECAUSE of their lack of strength of schedule.
I can read and again sorry I didn't get the exact wording of your statement, but it quite obvious you have no defense for your conflicting and incredible statements if you have to nit-pick about punctuation as opposed to the message.
RegardsI'm a Gator fan, and although I too had hoped for a repeat, we all knew this was a rebuilding year for Florida, especially on D. I am very pleased with the progress being made on D, and yesterday's D performance showed great promise for next year's national championship run. As much as I want to see this year's team be in the top 10, I have to agree with the "whole season" assessment (not the posters tone and use of profanity) made by another poster. Gators lost 3 games this year, all close, but a loss is a loss. But "Tebow for the Heisman" is hard to argue against.Really, Stew, a "National Nightmare"? And are you really sure all of the US wanted to see Ohio State lose? That's a bit biased, if you ask me. What happened last year, happened last year. This is a different team.
As a Buckeye fan, I can't say I didn't see it coming. I'm thankful it has been such a wild year, still giving us a shot at going for the big one. But if this is really how the entire media views us, than I guess we'll just have to book our tickets for the Rose Bowl. It is unfortunate, but with the Michigan game only a week away, we can't dwell on this.
Go Bucks, beat Blue!DINK - YOUR NAME IS SO APPROPRIATE. I WAS QUOTING ANOTHER POSTER AND REFUTING IT. I'M A BUCKEYE FAN YOU NITWITShookjer… You said:
Besides LSU-VT, what has the SEC done out of conference to prove that the SEC is so much better? Nothing! Their OOC schedule is as weak as any other conference.
Quiz
1. Name any BCS out of conference team with a winning record that was beaten by any B10 team.
There are none.
2. Name any BCS out of conference team with a winning record that was beaten by any SEC team.
Va Tech.*
3. Name any BCS out of conference team with a losing record that beat any B10 team.
1-9 Duke beat 6-5 Northwestern, 2-8 Iowa St beat 6-5 Iowa
4. Name any BCS out of conference team with a losing record that beat any SEC team.
There are none.
5. Name any non-BCS out of conference team that beat any B10 team.
Minn has lost three such, and of course—oh the unspeakable horror—Michigan.
6. Name any non-BCS out of conference team that beat any SEC team.
There are none.
So, Shookjer, the schedules may have been more or less the same, but the SEC performed better against theirs.
*The SEC still has 4 BCS OOC games left: Vandy-WakeF, Fla-FSU, Ga-GaTech, SCaro-Clemson. Maybe we can win some more games against teams with winning records.
The larger story here may be the slow decline of a once proud conference. In the past 40 years—I am starting with 1968 when OhioSt won a national championship—the B10 has won 3 national championships, 2 for OhioSt and 1 for Mich. In the same span the SEC has won 8, Ala with 3, Fla with 2, and LSU, Ga, and Tenn. More and more B10 is like the old Big 8, with Nebraska and 7 patsies.DINK: This is Sara. You are right. If schedule strength was a factor now, then my post would seem a little cicuitous... women are like that. I apologize for abbreviating my thoughts. But since schedule is only something we all pony up when it is to our team's advantage, and not a factor in ranking teams, my choice of Kansas to be #1 was made with today's rules. As for Kansas jumping over Oregon - I'm sure many will make the case that because Oregon didn't play this weekend, that would be unfair. I seem to recall, tho, such did happen to USC last year.salty gator,
And I suppose a LSU team who has lost to a 3-loss team (not to mention all the close games)deserves the top ranking, based on performance that is?????
Oh, by the way, it wasn't the Buckeye nation or TOSU that was ranking us number one, it was the coaches, writers and computer. So you should direct your 3-loss frustration towards those entities and not TOSU fan base for standing up to all the mis-directed hatred and jealousy. When your on top, you're always a target...we understand and accept that reality but it doesn't mean we aren't going to defend ourselves against such.
TOSU can't help it if the state of their football (and other sports) programs ranks them at the top in the whole country year-after year. If you think that is arrogant, so be it, it is reality like it or not.
As I said in an earlier post, if OSU wins out, they should be in the top 5 next preseason, if not number 1 since they are returning 20 of 22 starters and they held #1 longest the previous year with a late loss.
All ifs and maybes etc. but writers and those who vote for such should show consistency in the application of their analysis parameters.
Mandel, hard working as he is, doesn't understand credibility and his responsibilities and obligations that go with the position he holds. Certainly his managing editor should know but obviously not. As one poster said earlier, Mandel is the one who jumped on the USF wagon and looked where that got him. It was just an easy out for him not to rank OSU number one.
Quite simple, Mandel is not credible and his musings do nothing but waste space and bandwidth.
Its time to get ready for NFL and off the computer. Thanks to all for their spirited comments!
Regards!God I hate Buckeye fans. Stupid as stupid is. Must be something in the water. GO BLUE!>>>>God I hate Buckeye fans. Stupid as stupid is. Must be something in the water. GO BLUE!
Yes, it is called Wolverine blood. You are going to hate Buckeye fans even worse next Saturday evening.I love the SEC bashing. OSU loses and somehow its the SEC 's fault.
The SEC was 6-3 in bow games last year. They have this sort of record or better every single year.
Yes the Big Ten was 2-1 vs the SEC last year in the bowls. Congrats. Thats not usually the case. Ask Ohio St who has NEVER beaten an SEC team in a bowl.
But hey what do sportswriters who study this sort of thing for a living or coached who vote in polls know about this sort of thing. Im sure you 40 year olds with Buckeye pennants in your bedrooms are the real "Experts" Thanks for your wisdom."Yes the Big Ten was 2-1 vs the SEC last year in the bowls. Congrats. Thats not usually the case."
The Big Ten has a winning record against the SEC in bowl games over the past 5 years. I don't expect you to respond to this because it completely refutes the post you spent 5 minutes writing up, but whatever.BOBW - I am a Minnesota Gopher fan... there, I said it. feeling a bit of the stress leaving my body. Haven't posted much this year... bet you can guess why. As unfair as it is, been letting Buckeye fans defend the Big 10 all year long by themselves. But I just read your post on the slow decline of the Big 10 since 1968, using the SEC as a comparison, and I have to say you have it bang on. Sad but true. It is the conference, not just 1 or 2 schools, that has a proud heritage, and we have that proud heritage in more than men's football (BBall, Hockey, academics, research, etc.). My Gopher team has fallen on hard times, but I love my team. And even though we are not in the post-season, I will be pulling for the Big 10 reps that are... BTW - how many BIG 10 teams are bowl eligible this year?"But hey what do sportswriters who study this sort of thing for a living or coached who vote in polls know about this sort of thing."
Lou Holtz thought ND was going to a BCS game. Stewart Mandel thought USF was the best team in the country. These people aren't as smart as you think.National Nightmare???
A statement such as that could only come from a person who is mentally unsound. Lock Mandel away before he harms anyone.Cheers to any Ohio State fan who understands that their team has no claim to the national championship game at this point. Your opinions are the only ones that are worth reading. I was willing to accept that they would be in it if they went undefeated, despite the fact that they are not a great team. But now that they have lost, we can get back to reality.
Whether it was their fault or not, they played an awful schedule. It's the time of year to reward teams that have played quality schedules and finished with comparable records. As much as I've thought the Pac-10 was a joke in past years, Oregon has played better competition then OSU and is considerably more deserving. And if (shudder) Kansas or Oklahoma win out, they will also be more deserving.
That's not a really a dig at OSU either. They werent supposed to be a great team and they aren't. So I agree with Mandel, thank God for reality! It has just averted one potential injustice. You got Zooked.Gatorchomp:
' "God I hate Buckeye fans. Stupid as stupid is. Must be something in the water. GO BLUE!" '
"Yes, it is called Wolverine blood. You are going to hate Buckeye fans even worse next Saturday evening."
What's with the Gatorchomp handle my Buckeye friend? BLUE FANS like me feel your backhanded slap in the face... being replaced by the Florida Gators as your number 1 nemisis now? So much for traditional rivalries eh? Come Saturday, maybe you will change back to BLUEBUISED or the like? OK, so maybe now only UM and OSU fans care a hoot about THE GAME, but get focused. We taking your butts down in the Big House.If Kansas wins out and goes undefeated do they get left out of the NC game if Oregon and LSU win out? Who do you think gets left out in this scenario?common sense - if Kansas wins out and doesn't go to the national championship, i probably won't be a college football fan anymore@Shane
"Yes the Big Ten was 2-1 vs the SEC last year in the bowls. Congrats. Thats not usually the case. Ask Ohio St who has NEVER beaten an SEC team in a bowl."
Shane as an SEC fan you must certainly know that for many years now your conference and our conference meet in at least two bowl games every year. They both on New Years Day and are the Capital One Bowl and the Citrus Bowl. They match your #2 against our #2 and your #3 against our #3. Sound familiar Shane. Well over the last five (5) years we have met 14 times in bowl games and the Big Ten leads 8 to 6. Look it up and then shut up.CGATOR: I agree with your post and I am glad somebody in the sports media world has come out and said it. I might not have said it the exact same way tho as Stew did... just a little too much in your face for the Big 10 to take sitting down - look, it even got a Minnesota Gopher die hard fan to come out to blog back. Ok, the SEC is fun to watch again this year, BUT, the WIS game was too, and this IL-OSU was too. I think the Michigan game will be good as well. But no monster player standouts like last year in our league comparable to Tim Tebow. He scares me he is so good. I give the SEC that.What kind of reputable editor would allow such demeaning trash to be published?@P
If you think you're taking us down in the Big House then so be it, but you had better have Henne or forget about it. Without Hart and Henne it will be a walk in the park.I know some of you think that our fans are out of line and say some pretty rude things, but look at it from our point of view.
Columbus, Ohio has become one of the biggest cities in America over the past 10 years and hosts one of the largest universities as well in Ohio St. Also, we have no professional sports teams of merit to root for year round (talking of you Blue Jackets). Most big colleges aren't in capital cities or highly populated areas, and if they are, there are Professional sports teams around them for people to root for. Thats not the case here.
All we have here now and have always had is Ohio St football. If you have ever lived in Columbus, even for a short period of time, you would see just how passionate our fans are about our Buckeyes. When they are doing well so is the whole city, and when they fall, we fall with them. We live and die by the Scarlet and Grey here.
For 12 weeks of each year, and hopefully a day in January the city is alive in full to support of our home team. And I am sure if you come here during this time you will realize we really are hospitable people. However, after a loss, we all feel like all of our hopes and dreams were lost with the Buckeyes and we need to vent some steam for awhile. I apologize for a few of the people posting here and I hope you don't judge us by our bad attitudes after a loss. I just want you to understand how passionate we all are about the game and hope you can understand the situation we are in.
Go Bucks!Auburn was undefeated and didnt get a chance.
And for the record.
The SEC leads the Big Ten with a 63-45-2 all-time record.
The SEC has a .582 winning percentage versus the Big Ten.
Have you guys ever watched an SEC game. Cant you see how much more athletic the players are than the Big Ten. Is it a coincidence that an SEC guy knocked you off with SPEED. Keep playing football the 70's we will punch you in the mouth way as other teams simply out run you.If Kansas wins out, which is a huge challenge, then they must be in THE GAME. Nobody has anywhere near the level of competition to overcome their last couple of games of this season. Kansas would be undefeated. I am a Pac10 fan, and as much as I hate to admit it, if Oregon and LSU also win out, THE GAME should go with Kansas and LSU. GO BEAVERS."Have you guys ever watched an SEC game. Cant you see how much more athletic the players are than the Big Ten. Is it a coincidence that an SEC guy knocked you off with SPEED. Keep playing football the 70's we will punch you in the mouth way as other teams simply out run you."
lol, not only do you support your argument with statistics from the 1950s, but you also sound like an idiot. Simply out run the Big 10? I seem to remember PSU and Wisconsin lining up and smashing the ball right down Auburn and Tenn's throats last year. you're hilarious, man. Keep postingWow, quite a list of posts (no surprise). I'm glad so many of you are relieved at OSU's loss, but like the vast majority of the Buckeye Nation, we still love and are proud of our team, and are looking forward to a great game this weekend. Beyond that, I'll be pulling for the Big 10 teams (of which 10 are currently bowl eligible by the way) to play hard and do well in their bowl games, and I predict they will.
Which leads to an interesting point about expectations. We're still happy here because we didn't figure on being NC this year; sportswriters and coaches kept elevating us but it IS a year or so early for us. But what about?
1) The loser of the NC game? If it's not close, get ready for the "overrated" calls from everybody.
2) The SEC? God's gift to football? The way you've been hyped, if you don't win about 80% of your bowl games, get ready for the rest of the country to be screaming overrated. And BTW, that's exactly what's going to happen.
3) Teams that play (and lose) to Big 10 teams in the bowls. Again, this is going to happen. What then? Hari-kari? Whining? Rationalization?
I say this because all year I (and other OSU fans) have had to put up with comments about last year, not this year. This year is the only one that's relevant. But for the three reasons above, you'll get to feel the same joy we've felt for all of 2008. Get used to it.
P.S. Shane, your stats (as carefully selected as I'm sure they are) are hardly convincing, neither is your outdated "logic". Just like there are some idiotic Big 10 posters, yours is typical of the idiotic SEC poster. Speed exists all over the place. But guess what happens if your winning percentage against us slow, "70s" football types this year is only 50%?? See #2 and #3 above, and start developing your excuses now...I think it will take you that long to come up with some.Rift
You hit it right on the head. Folks across the country do not know just how passionate Buckeye fans are because of what you described.
Do not despair however we will pull out the Big House win and then have an impressive bcs win over somebody to launch us for next year which is what we all expected coming into this year anyhow. Bux return 20 of 22 starters assuming Jenkins, Lauinaitus Gholston and several others come back. Things are brighter than ever for tOSU.
Go Bux>>We taking your butts down in the Big House.
Yes, and shrimps will learn to whistle.As a follow up to my point above, I think another interesting question is will sportswriters, etc. admit to being a bit biased against certain conferences and toward certain conferences if the bowl games don't bear those results out? I'd like to think yes, but my guess is no. It takes some guts to admit you're wrong, after all.To BobW
I satnd by what I said. I was comparing OOC schedules and the SEC hasn't played a tougher one than anyone else. I'm not saying the Big Ten is the best, I'm just saying they're not as bad as the SEC fanboys think they are.
You quiz was well put together, but should I think the SEC is almighty because they beat 1 OOC BCS team with a winning record? LSU is good, I just don't think they're the greatest team ever. I heard some people earlier this year say that LSU would beat half the NFL teams. That's just ludicrous!
Duke and Iowa St beat Big Ten teams. Everyone can have a bad game right? Numerous other "bad" teams got beat by the Big Ten this year.
I agree with you that the SEC had played better against their OOC foes than the Big Ten has.... but that wasn't my point.
My point is that SEC fans say the Big Ten sucks. They say they haven't played anyone. They say that any SEC team would regularly beat any Big Ten team. I disagree with those statements because they are wrong.
Oh, and you're touting the 4 remaining OOC games you have. I wouldn't call Wake, FSU, Ga Tech or Clemson great teams. The ACC certainly isn't destroying other conferences this year. But, they could certainly win because any team can win. That is why they play isn't it?
I don't agree about the Big Ten declining. It goes in spurts. PSU got roobed out of the 1994-95 national championship. They were undefeated, won the Rose Bowl and had one of, if not the best offense ever in College Football. But, Tom Osbourne won it out of sympathy because he's never won a NC. Iowa and Purdue were great teams a few years ago that are rebuilding. My Nittany Lions had a couple bad years, but have a decent team this year and return 19 starters next year. Illinois has some very good teams in the 90's. I will say that they're up and down more than the SEC probably is. But it's not like SEC schools have had some down years. I was going to start bringing up old stats and looked at the 2002 final standings.
1. Ohio State (71) 14-0 1,775
2. Miami 12-1 1,693
3. Georgia 13-1 1,598
4. USC 11-2 1,590
5. Oklahoma 12-2 1,476
6. Texas 11-2 1,363
7. Kansas State 11-2 1,356
8. Iowa 11-2 1,334
9. Michigan 10-3 1,182
10. Washington State 10-3 1,085
11. Alabama 10-3 988
12. N.C. State 11-3 943
13. Maryland 11-3 844
14. Auburn 9-4 821
15. Boise State 12-1 692
16. Penn State 9-4 675
17. Notre Dame 10-3 657
18. Virginia Tech 10-4 544
19. Pittsburgh 9-4 520
20. Colorado 9-5 307
21. Florida State 9-5 291
22. Virginia 9-5 250
23. TCU 10-2 231
24. Marshall 11-2 201
25. West Virginia 9-4 195
I see 3 Big Ten teams in the top 9 and 4 teams total. I only see Georgia and Auburn in the top 25. Where's UT, LSU, UF, Bama, Ark? Could it be that they had down years that season?RIFT: You give a good and pretty accurate description of Ohio. I lived there for a few years, and I can agree that without a winning Bucs Program, there is absolutely no way anyone would stay in that state. Al is focused on the fall... it truly gets one thru the rest of the year. Can't drink the water, can't eat the fish/dear, and the past pollution in the environment throughout this rust belt state is slowly killing the population. The huge brain drain since the 60's has reduced the state's economy to one more like that of a third world country... and the academic quality of the inner city schools, community colleges, and public universities is moving loving year in and year out. Thank God for the football! Go Bucs.Tell you what Big Ten dummies. Lets all do this. This April at the NFL draft watch the first 3 or 4 rounds and count how many players come from the SEC and how many from the Big Ten.
The SEC will win running away.
And why? Its not because NFL scouts wave banners and yell rah rah. Its because they have a job to do and they wouldnt have it long if they didnt select the best talent. So why is that? Could it be the best players are in the SEC? HMMMMMMAbsolutely amazing. Congrats Illinois. The Illini have now defeated three of the top five teams they have played in Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin with the loss coming to Missouri. If they had not dropped a couple of games to inferior Iowa and Michigan squads they could be in position to play for the title. This team has a future, and that future is now. They have a dynamic QB in Juice, a soon to be great receiver and the Big Ten's best running back in Mendenhall, all of whom may be back. Throw in an athletic defense that keeps getting better and the sky is the limit.Shane - the NFL draft is pretty balanced between the conferences. Look it upHey K: I am from Ohio and am an OSU grad. I left and went to Florida because there weren;t any jobs in Cleveland. Ohio isn;t the only state with pollution problems from an industrial past. I could have stayed and tried to help clean up the mess... but when I applied for jobs in AZ, CA, and FL, there was no way I was gonna stay in Ohio. So, yes, Ohio is a rust belt state, yes its infrastructure saw its better days 30 or 40 years ago, yes it doesn't have any good univeristies besides OSU, and yes, its economy suks. So what. We're talking football. Go Bucs.kelly - I hope you aren't referring to the BCS title...because your loss to missouri wasn't so much a loss as it was a destructionshane - http://drafthistory.com/n_college/college_n.htmlTo K: Welcome to the level of idiocy that was shown last night by "Stewart". Your post is so ridiculously stupid it's not even worth a response per se.
And Shane, you need to look at facts, bud. You toss around generalities and have no credibility. How about doing some research and actually showing numbers of draft picks from each conference for the past five years? That would keep you busy for a while. Or you could just remember that THAT particular argument and "stats" have been argued about a dozen times already, with "convincing" arguments from all sides. How about something original?Congrats to the Zooker. I got to hang out in his office with the other coaches for a couple hours right after the Auburn overtime win a few years ago. His wife got a Bud light out of a cooler and went to hand it to him. Despite making over a million a year, he rejected it and told her to get him a Natty Light out of his personal refrigerator. He wasn't the right coach for the Gators, but damn I'll always root for him after that.Thanks for the website Chris. The fact that ND makes it meaningless. Im sure Army was high on that list as well.
Im talking about right now not when they wore leather helmets
Here are the stats of CURRENT players in the NFL
1 SEC 266
2 ACC 247
3 Big Ten 236
4 Pac 10 next and so on
And the gap is getting wider. Care to revise your statement sir?Kelly:
I agree with you; Illinois is a team that has gone largely unrecognized outside the Big 10, but a lot of us know it's a great team and they're only going to get better. I'm personally glad to see it, since the program was down for a while. Whoever play the Illini in the bowl game is going to have a hell of a game on their hands. Now if only my beloved Boilers can do the same! :)Well said. Congrats to Illinois and Ron Zook (who did get a bum deal from Florida).
If Kansas can defeat 9-1 Missouri and then 8-1 Oklahoma, then they should play in the title game.Shane:
So based on YOUR selection of stats, are you also suggesting that the ACC is the second best conference? Or are you being selective of the USE of your carefully selected stats as well?Shane - I don't know why I keep responding to you. You used an all-time statistic when it suited you (SEC v. Big 10) but refuse to recognize another all-time statistic (draft picks). Also, your argument is that the SEC is a vastly superior conference because it has 19 more players in the NFL than any other team? That's hardly dominant, my friend. It's less than half a player per team. Seems to me to be within the margin of error.K/STEVE/LARRY: I lov my bucs. I drink da tap water in celvland all my life. don;t notic no probelms at all. 'cept my hair has all falld out and got gas. i love my bucs cause they are on tv. ain;t; got no job. no jobs hear. jst a lot of poor peeps arund. i got my dagree at akron and a masters in crimeologie from clevland state. darn good scholls. right thar at the botom of the carneigie ratins. so screw yall. go buckeys!!!!Wow, as much fun as this is, I have to run, so can't respond to any flames. Good luck to all of you and your teams, and may we be blessed with good bowl games (including the NC) and reasonable talk.
Go Boilers, Go Buckeyes, and once again Congrats to you Illini!N:
I have to respond to your post. I mean, wow. You know, if you can't say something intelligent, at least try saying something that's funny. When it's neither, it's just plain sad.OK... How's this for bpth sad and funny larry: Go Bucs.USA TODAY TOP 25 OUT
Big 10 - 5
SEC - 5
Big 12 - 4
ACC - 4
PAC 10 - 3
Big East - 2
DOMINANCE
By the way, OSU has all other top 25 Big 10 teams on their schedule. That's more than LSU.Zook was pretty much set up to fail from the start at Florida, but if 4+ Million for 3 years of coaching is a bum deal, then I'll take the crappyest deal ever and you can call me the worst coach that ever lived.I dont know why you do either Chris. I bring out stat after stat and yet you keep cherry picking just the ones that suit you. Its like arguing with a brick wall after awhile. So go ahead post away . You win brick wall.
The NFL is on now anywayThanks for writing another article Stewart. I really have lost respect for Northwestern's education after reading your articles this past year. I know now why I canceled my subscription to Sports Illustrated, and instead read most of my sports articles at ESPN.
You are without a doubt the worst college football analyst, and that includes John Cooper which is laughable. I remember that gem you wrote after the first week, about the part where if Michigan is that overrated, then Ohio State must be even more so.
Ohio State played horrible, and Illinois played absolutely perfect. They deserved to win; and those players involved at the end of the game should be kicked off campus. I am ashamed to see such behavior displayed. As a staff member at Ohio State I would rather lose with class then win with such rotten behavior. I hope Jim Tressel takes care of business and doesn't let that behavior define Ohio State.
Anyone from the SEC that thinks this behavior is representative of all Ohio State fans is an idiot. That includes you SEC_Rules.... Way to show your ignorance by lumping everyone in one group.SHANE - I am a Big 10 fan, and I get you... and I appreciate the stats you dig up showing the SEC rise. You win. So where do we go from here? Players? this will hurt even more: SEC has three top Heisman candidates... Big 10 won it last year but not in the running this year. As an unbiased onlooker then, I would have to lean to Tebow. Will he win tho? As much bias as there is in team rankings, we have the same thing happening in the Heisman voting. Tebow's Heisman run will have to overcome both the fact he is a sophomore and the fact that the Gators, although a great team again this year, has three (close) losses (to top ranked teams).RICH - I agree on the punches thrown after the game by the Buc players. Horrible unsportsmanlike behavior that no Big 10 team should tolerate. Shades for the Miami brawl a few years back. Coach Tressel should kick those players off this 2007 team NOW. when you loose, eat it. Can;t expect the winning team to go back into the clubhouse quietly, especially after such a long dry spell. AppState celebrated... and nobody on the Michigan bench went out to center field and began throwing punches. OSU needs to act now to stomp tis gansta rep is is getting with its recent player criminal convictions.Let me start by saying that All college teams have their share of loudmouth knuklehead fans and The Ohio State University is certainly no exception. I find that usually, this type of fan didn't even attend the school to which they're so blindly devoted. If you don't ignore them, then you're probably one of them.
Any fan that expects to win the national championship, has not been
paying attention. It is quite possible to run the board in a BCS conference and still not get to play in the final game (just ask Auburn fans). The fact is that the "best" team(s) often do not win the title (see BYU 1984 etc.). The best you can do is, win all your games, and hope things work out in your favor.
To any true member of the Buckeye nation, the national title is very nice and all, but its just icing. The only thing that REALLY matters is beating "That team up north". To this extent, I did not savor the prospect of going to the Big House with another title game at stake, against a team that has nothing to loose. I'd much rather a team like Illinois be the spoiler.
Ohio has a wonderfully rich football history and tradition that is matched by few and exceeded by none. I wouldn't trade it for any other.This post has been removed by the author.This post has been removed by the author.Attention Bendy33 and all SEC and fans around the country with memory lapses. The Big Ten was 2-1 against teams from the SEC in bowl games last year. 2-1, 2-1, 2-1. Get it through your heads!
OSU has scheduled games against the likes of USC, Miami(Fl.), Virginia Tech and Oklahoma in upcoming seasons. So if these tradtionally strong teams have down years in the future, don't blame the Bucks for playing a weak schedule. It won't be OSU's fault that other teams in OTHER conferences are losers. This year the Bucks went to Washington in again a supposedly better conference (Pac Ten) and soundly beat UW. Washington was once a powerhouse, again not OSU's fault.
And teams in Ohio are not pushovers every year. U of Cinc. is having a great season this year(OSU played them last year) and Bowling Green has been a top 20 team in the previous seasons.
And Mandel, it seems that you have been waiting all year to type this biased crap. Hope you feel better. OSU has been a powerhouse of football in the past and will continue in the future. Just ask Notre Dame, Miami Fl., Kansas State etc. Teams from OTHER conferences the Bucks beat in bowl games the past few years.
Finally, congrats to Illinois. Another strong Big Ten team the country (and OSU) will have to deal with in the coming years.Stewart:
For the record, how many excuses for USC will you make when Ohio State blows out USC next year in USC's stadium?gavin - next year? How about in 2 months when OSU rocks USC?Blaming the refs for losing a game I believe may be the lowest a sports fan can stoop in searching for an excuse for why their great defense got lit up for an entire game. Yes Illinois got away with the fumble early, but you can never say for sure how the game would have turned out had it been called a fumble, plus the Illini RB wasn't the only one who dropped the ball there, Tressel could have easily challenged. Outside of that I thought the refs called a great game, and let the players play on both sides. I'd much rather watch that kind of game than a penalty-riddled one where holding is called every series even though everyone knows most holding calls are marginal in the first place.
Also there was not a single inflammatory penalty called down the stretch that would have had a direct effect on the final score (i.e. I seem to recall one such pass interference call at the end of a recent national championship game that gave OSU a chance that I'm sure Miami fans think they never should have had).
Any time you make more mistakes than the other team and allow them to capitalize on those mistakes you are giving yourself an excellent chance to lose the game, even if you are ranked #1 and are playing at home.
You may be able to gripe about a possible media/pollster conspiracy against OSU but there is certainly no referee conspiracy against you, that is just ridiculous.
Finally, Illini players dancing on your Block O I'd say was mildly classless, but OSU players retaliation equally classless. Neither incident should have happened and put a damper on a great game. I understand players from both teams, as Illinois hasn't had a victory like this since their players' parents were infants, and OSU players (who are nearly always part of a team near the top of the polls) wanting to defend their turf. However, neither is an excuse for the behavior on either side.
I couldn't be happier for my Illini, as I have gone through half of college and all of medical school there since the last time we went to a bowl game, and as a side note I will be rooting hard for OSU next week against UM, and for all Big Ten teams once the bowls come around.I just spent too much of my life reading these comments and nearly went to sleep. Still debating which conference is best? There's no way to prove it, and it really doesn't matter.
As to individual teams, I don't think The Ohio State University was ever worthy of the #1. I'm not an OSU hater...well, maybe a little bit...but I've always respected that program. Their defense looked slow against the Illinois spread, though...and Oregon has a faster, more sophisticated spread than Illinois fields. A Buckeyes-Ducks game would have been just as ugly as Mandel suggests.
As a Duck fan, the team I fear most is the guys with the eye of the tiger. LSU has been flirting with disaster all year, but I still think they're the best at this point. An Oregon-LSU game would be great. GO DUCKS!Buckeye fan, and what saddened me the most about that game was after, not during. I can handle losing, sort of, but I can't handle embarressing the school. Suspend all, and lose to Michigan, show class means more than victories. Still haven't been able to see a tape of what started it though.
Oddly enough, haven't seen a thing about the fight. Watched Sportscenter (god how I hate that show) and nothing. Something tells me if it was the "U", it would have been everywhere.
OSU was outplayed that game. Said all season though that the Bucks weren't top two, top 5 maybe. Interested to see how far they fall.
Illinois isn't a bad team. And whoever said they were never ranked. Wrong. They were 19 earlier this year. And probably top 25 again when they release.
Wish people would stop ranking things this year off of last year. Different teams/conferences entirely. I know why people do it, it is the only thing we can use because no one plays anyone. Everyone should have to play 2 major conference teams ooc.
As for Mandel's "national nightmare" statement, I read it as though he was being cynical. Mocking it more than relaying it.
@ bd40pe
Zook is no more successful, record wise, in the Big 10 or the SEC. Point of fact, overall since he started, worse in the Big 10. Though Illinois is going to be quite good in the years to come. He has done a good job at Illinois. Why you seem to think he sucks, regardless of what he does, based on past events shows ignorance more than anything else.
@ shane
So you pull out an all-time stat to prove SEC dominance over the big 10. So when someone else pulls out an all time stat to argue against another point you made it doesn't matter because it is all time. You are talking now. Are you a politician? You are great at coming up with stats and skewing them to help your point and then changing your point as people argue against you. And then, when all else fails, going to mud slinging. Uncanny really. But if you want to go with current stuff, try this, over the past 3 bowl seasons big 10 is beating the SEC 5-3. But please, spin away.
Back to my thoughts though. Any realistic OSU fan will tell you they didn't belong in the NC game this year. They lost all starting skill positions from last year. Simply too much. No team can recover from that and be a top team the next year. Florida lost its defense and look what happened to it. OSU has overachieved this year. The Rose Bowl was my hope for the team this year.
I said last week that if things hold, which they didn't, the NC game should be OSU-Kansas. OSU no longer is there obviously. Kansas still belongs though. More so if they beat Mizzu and OU. After that, I would put in Oregon personally, but it will end up being LSU. The SEC hype has been going on ever since Auburn got hosed years ago. Furthered by how people remembering USC as back-to-back national champions when really LSU took the BCS one year. And it is paying off now.
Clouting bowl births is pointless now as well. Big 10, which everyone says is down, will have 9 or 10. Too many mediocre teams get bowl births to claim it as a strength of a conference.
Why do people make up new names to post under all the time? Making a new one to mock people? Life that slow? Realize most people come here to talk cfb, but to come here to mock people makes me feel sorry for you.To UGA in Iraq, and other servicemembers I know reading this from Afghanistan and other places:
I'm with Larry. We are, indeed, thinking of you this Veteran's Day weekend. Thank you for your service to our country. Please be safe over there, and come home safe!
Enjoy the games with us, and my best to your personal teams as you do.
SasTo much about what someone thinks or feels. Some conferences have little room for outside scheduling. Unless or until there is some type of playoff system, the votes dictate the rankings. January 2006, USC, ranked #1 and highly favored, beaten by Texas, January 2007, Ohio State ranked #1 and highly favored, beaten by Florida. These games and many more are decided by on field play, not by votes.I agree with George. Read it last week, the "favored" team loses in the nc game more than it wins. What does that tell me. Paper lies. The field does not. Playoffs are needed. Never understood why it is good for div-1AA, div 2, and div 3 but not good for div-1A2004-05 Bowl Season
Big 10 (3-3)
SEC (3-3)
Minnesota beats Alabama.
Iowa beats LSU.
Georgia beats Wisconsin.
2005-06
Big Ten (3-4)
SEC (3-3)
Florida beats Iowa.
Also, OSU lost to national champion Texas by three points with Justin Zwick playing most of the game at QB. Does that count as a quality opponent?
Yeah, that's real dominance. You can take past results and include or omit all you want to suit your argument. There is little doubt that for the past two seasons that SEC has had the most conference depth. But teams like Illinois and Wisconsin (when fully healthy) are better than every SEC team this year with the exception of LSU, Florida, and possibly Auburn. Georgia, Tennesse, and Alabama are VERY average teams. Things are cyclical. Unfortunately most people can barely remember what happened last weekend let alone last year or two - five years ago.
And OSU fans (including me)...just admit it. Illinois came in with a superior game plan and took it to us. If OSU beats Michigan and beat a likely high-quality opponent in the Rose Bowl it as good of a season as anyone could have expected before the season started.Why do SEC fans constantly say there conference is better than anyone else's. The bowl season will tell us who has the better conference. As far as Ohio State goes what does it matter if they deserved to be NO. 1 or not. They played teams that were not ranked high and that is not there fault. The schedules were not made up this year. Why don't you SEC fans get your teams to come up north and play us lousy schools in the cold in November. We would love to see how that would go. I am an OSU fan and I will admit we were not and are not the best team in the country. But so what. There is only 1 team at the end of the year that can say that after they win a one game(playoff).I have finally decided that a playoff system would NOT be good for college football.
First, why settle it on the field when coaches, computers, and (best of all) sports journalists can decide for us? Settling issues on the field leaves too much room for regional biases and "intangibles".
Second, if we had a postseason playoff most of us would be doing more constructive things as I type.I wonder where Stewart Mandel is from, becuase he is like the rest of us. He is a fan and gets paid for his professional opinions but also like everyone else, we all have opinions.
The entire human factor of voters should rethink this year about the miscues of votes they made. this year was full of miscue votes.
Since the preseason polls came out, nothing was well thought through.I wonder where Stewart Mandel is from, becuase he is like the rest of us. He is a fan and gets paid for his professional opinions but also like everyone else, we all have opinions.
The entire human factor of voters should rethink this year about the miscues of votes they made. this year was full of miscue votes.
Since the preseason polls came out, nothing was well thought through.I agree with everyone on the early drive fumble by Illinois did not cost ohio State the game. It cost them a tie in the first four quarters.
The score is 21 to 21 and the momentum was on Ohio State's side.
When will people stop saying that a call did not cost a team the game. If turn-overs did not matter then we would not track them as stats!
All turn overs matter, I do not care what excuse everyone else makes for them.
The refs need to be fined heavily and possibly suspended for that HUGE mistake!!!!Mandel grew up in Cincinatti, Ohio and went to school at Northwestern. He has hidden neither of those facts.
As for the bias, read his mailbag. He gets called a sec hater and sec lover hundreds of times every week. People don't understand he doesn't have the same blind devotion as they do. Leaving him open to state facts, even if they are against his team. Also, he shows more cajones by posting his thoughts and opinions as much as he does, where other pollsters hide and attempt to hide theirs."By the way, OSU has all other top 25 Big 10 teams on their schedule. That's more than LSU."
LSU has VaTech.
Ohio State has Akron, and Y State.
Yes, LSU played LaTech, because the legislature made them. Last I checked the Ohio legislature didn't insist on a Buckeye tour of the state. OSU played a schedule worthy of a state championship. LSU, Oregon, Oklahoma, and others have played a schedule worthy of a national title.
And it's funny that Buckeye fans will holler about "you can't blame the players for the schedule... all they can do is win the games in front of them" when criticizing OSU. You won't hear them make that same argument in support of, say, Hawaii, or Kansas.Oh - and enough about the damn non-fumble in the Illinois game. If Ohio State was a national title team, they'd blow the doors off of an unranked opponent playing on senior night at the 'Shoe in the last home game of the season, especially at night. You don't have a game that turns on a non-fumble in the first-freakin-quarter.
This wasn't like last year's OU-OU game when the refs missed the call on the onside kick where the receiving team was just going to run out the clock.
There was plenty of time for Ohio State to recover. There were 13 minutes in the 4th quarter when the supposedly-best-defense-in-America couldn't get Illinois off the field. Quit blaming the refs b/c Ohio State was finally exposed as no better than any other team in the country.
Again, if you're supposed to be the nat'l title frontrunner, you beat an unranked team in your house on senior night at night, and you beat 'em bad. Two or three touchdowns bad, and that's after you give'em a few during garbage time when you clear the bench for your seniors who've spent 3 years on the scout team so they get a chance to play in front of mom.Mandel you are such and A** H***. You complain about Ohio State just because you don't like them. You must be a SEC jerk. The Big 10 is no weaker than any other conference it just has idots like you posting lies about them because you don't like them. Ohio State is a better 1 loss team than you think so shut up and pay attention.I am an Ohio State fan. I believe that Ohio State with 1 loss is still as good as LSU or any other 1 loss team but because money is more important the NCAA and the BCS will always stick with this fouled up way to figure out who is to play who in BCS bowls. I think the NCAA should do away with BCS and go to a 16 game play off system ...extend the season into January or February and have every conference have a conference championship...then have the conference champion play in the playoffs with some wildcard berths...sort of like the NFL playoffs.
Well, it is ok to dream...isn't it?Brant, did legislation also force LSU to play Mid Tennesse and powerhouse Tulane?
LSU did the exact same thing OSU did this season. One major opponent and then scrubs. Only difference is their major opponent remained talented 4 years later when they played. Actually, OSU scheduled the Washington game in the 90s. After this year its home and homes with USC, Miami, and Va Tech for OSU, who is LSU playing those years?
Matters little to you this year. Though in the coming years when the tables could be turned and the team you are argueing for was in OSU's boat prior to this weekend, you will change your tune. And then back again a couple years after that when it changes again.
I will remain the same. Undefeated in the major conferences should beat any 1 loss team. Kansas belongs if they win out. People are putting off moving them up because they hope they lose so they don't have to make a statement/think.Illinois played their hearts out but are CLASSLESS.
First off, do NOT dance on the Block "O". You are taunting the opponent and giving the middle finger to everyone associated with The Ohio State University. Also, Illinois players were taunting OSU players when singing the alma matter (Carmen, Ohio) in the south stands after the game and Illini fans joined in. Ron Zook, you need to teach your players class and character or get the hell out of the Big Ten.If we could depart from the reenactment of the Civil War for just a hot second, I have a question that somebody out there may answer. I have never before seen an offense that completely dominates any given defense the way the spread option does. Why can't anyone stop it, and does anyone have a theory as to what type of defense could actually do well against it? Very few teams have prevailed against it this year, unless they run it, themselves.The Book
Stewart Mandel's first book, Bowls, Polls and Tattered Souls: Tackling the Chaos and Controversy that Reign Over College Football, is available now. Click here to order your discounted copy.CommentsAll user comments must be approved by the moderator before being published. Due to time constraints, comments will only be published for the first several hours following a new post.More MandelRecent Posts
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