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SI.com college football writer Stewart Mandel shares his commentary, analysis and random tidbits on the latest developments around the country.
Saturday Observations, Part II
You made it abundantly clear over the past month, America. You did not want to see another Ohio State national-title appearance. Not because of some inherent aversion toward scarlet and gray (I hope), but because … well, it just didn’t feel right. No. 1 again? Really? After what happened against Florida? After possibly going the entire regular season without defeating a nationally respected opponent? I remained somewhat skeptical of the Buckeyes myself, not because they weren’t a solid team, but because they weren’t being adequately tested by their schedule. Were they to meet an LSU or Oregon in New Orleans, the result would likely be similar to last year’s Florida beatdown -- not because those teams are inordinately better than Ohio State, but because the Buckeyes haven’t faced the type of speed during the regular season to prepare them for such an event. Mercifully -- as much for Ohio State’s sake as ours -- we no longer have to worry about that. Speaking of speed, the Buckeyes had gone their first 10 games without facing a mobile quarterback the likes of Illinois’ Juice Williams. The sophomore has been largely erratic all season, but watching him Saturday, you would have thought he was Dennis Dixon. Williams walked into the sold-out Horseshoe and threw a career-high four touchdowns against the nation’s top-ranked defense. Those four scores, along with the defense’s three interceptions of Ohio State QB Todd Boeckman, gave Illinois the lead, but it was Williams’ feet that gave the Illini the win. Four times on Illinois’ game-sealing, eight-minute, 15-play drive, the Chicago native converted a third or fourth down with a run to wrap up the 28-21 stunner. A quarterback comes of age. An oft-criticized coach, Ron Zook, earns a landmark victory. A tradition-starved program pulls off its first win over a No. 1 team since 1956. Of all teams, Illinois turns the national-title race upside down. At this point, nothing about this season can possibly surprise me -- Ohio State is merely the ninth top-five team to lose to an unranked foe this fall -- but think about how quickly its complexion changed Saturday. Seven hours ago, we were looking toward another epic OSU-Michigan showdown between two teams with undefeated Big Ten records; the two rivals will still play for a conference title and Rose Bowl berth next week, but few outside the Midwest will care. Suddenly, LSU and Oregon sit in the national-title driver’s seat. Both, like the Buckeyes, lost to a current three-loss team; fortunately for them, those defeats came in September and October, not mid-November. Suddenly, tonight’s Kansas-Oklahoma State game takes on added importance. Kansas, yes Kansas, is the last remaining undefeated BCS-conference team. Should the Jayhawks manage to win out -- something that is far from guaranteed, what with 9-1 Missouri and possibly 8-1 Oklahoma remaining -- voters could have one heck of a dilemma on their hands. But don’t be fooled. Ohio State’s loss was merely the beginning of what I fully anticipate will be a tumultuous final few weeks to the regular season. By Dec. 2, we will have yet another, unprecedented BCS dilemma to debate. Who knows? Depending on just how crazy things get, this year’s controversy might even involve the prospect of a two-loss national-title contender -- particularly if the only remaining one-loss team happens to be … Ohio State.
posted by Stewart Mandel | View comments |
Comments: Geaux Tigers!
Well, congrats Illinois, good non-fumble on the first drive. Thanks referees, way to call a good game. Illinois held Gholston 3 plays in a row, without a call.
wow, jotto... upset much?
It's times like these I HATE living in Columbus. I'm putting my car in the garage in case one of you nutjobs burns it. Oh, and that was quite classy of OSU to get in a fight and start swinging at the only guy who doesn't have a helmet. Oh, and, forgot to mention - The second freakin' post is an excuse. I'll be durned.
Stew is from Cincinnati, Kentucky (Ohio only claims Cincinnati for tax purposes, Cincinnati is really part of Kentucky), went to an overrated Northwestern. He can never be regarded as an unbiased "journalist" when it comes to covering Ohio State. Ohio State is still the best 1 loss team in the country, has no one else noticed that in the SEC road teams have a .500 record? There is no home field advantage, losing on the road to Kentucky is a disgrace. Oregon-Arizona State rematch for the title this year. The south sucks, Abraham Lincoln should have let you worthless hillbillies go when he had the chance.
Anyone else thinking it was dirty how Florida treated Ron Zook? He recruited his heart out, brought in the talent, then had to sit and watch while Meyer took his team to the national championship. Here's hoping Illinois doesn't try to play the same game, and leaves the Zooker to fail or succeed on his own terms.
That said, let's go West Virginia! I'm an Ohio State fan, and I'll say that a 1-loss OSU team has no place in the national championship.
Besides, this is a rebuilding year; I was expecting a Citrus er Capitol One Bowl berth anyway. Beating Michigan and earning a Rose Bowl berth would put this season beyond my expectations. OSU plays at USC next season; at least we won't have to listen to any whining about whether or not we belong when we win that game. I am surprised that Stew did not mention OK. Georgia is playing better and may upset LSU in the SEC title game. As OSU was untested in a real sense so is Oreg. Stew also did not mention WV, but their schedule is even weaker than any of the above. I guess I see LSU/Oreg or OK as the best match. Comments?
I posted this on the earlier blog but will do so again...congratulations to Illinois. They simply outplayed us, and the deserve the win. They're a good team, and Juice Williams played a tremendous game. Whoever plays them in their bowl is in for a heck of a game.
I'm still very proud of my Buckeyes...they're certainly not the first great team to lose a game this year, and I'll look forward to a really good bowl game as well as a great game next week with Michigan. As for the early-game fumble, yeah, it was puzzling to me that it wasn't reviewed or appealed, but that was early in the game and we should have come back, and we didn't. At this point, I'll sit back and wait for the piling on from the OSU haters to end (including you, Stewart, for your crappy little dig at the end of this blog piece--I've thought to myself "isn't Stewart better than this?" for the last time--I've got my answer). I don't know why OSU has engendered so much negative feelings from you guys but we're simply playing our season like everybody else. Our fans aren't any more arrogant than any other team ranked up there, but all season long we've had to put up with crappy comments from folks whose teams aren't necessarily any better. Well, enjoy, folks, and we'll see you in the Rose Bowl. Again, congratulations to the Illini on a great game...well played and you deserve the win. I know you (and the other Big 10 teams) will do well at the end of the season and make us proud. To the bigot calling himself "stewart" in order to create confusion--go back to first grade geography, fool. Hillbillies live in the hills! There aren't any real hills in Lousiana, Florida, Alabama or Mississippi, there are precious few in Georgia and South Carolina. The only southern states with hills to speak of are Kentucky, Arkansas, Tennessee, Virginia, and North Carolina. Therefore, most of the south has no hillbillies, you Ohio redneck.
OSU the best 1-loss in the country?
I think that's a bit of a stretch, given that they have defeated zero teams currently ranked in the AP poll. Meanwhile, LSU has defeated four currently ranked teams (VA Tech, Florida, Auburn, Alabama) and Oregon three (Michigan, ASU, USC). Even OU has managed two (Texas, Missouri). And LSU and Oregon's losses are not worse than OSU's (the teams that beat LSU and Oregon are currently tied for #24 in the AP poll; Illinois is currently unranked, though presumably that will change). OK, you got me there. In place of the term hillbillies, let me replace it with "worthless confederate traitors."
By the way, OSU did a really nice job of recognizing veterans (both surviving and those who've lost their life in the service of their country) at various points during the game, to tremendous applause and respect from the crowd. It certainly helped put things in perspective (particularly since we've had our share of losses from Ohio). I hope (and imagine) the same was true at other stadiums across the country, in anticipation of a Veteran's Day that should be very "real" and recognized by all of us.
Hey guys Stewart will be wealthy one day. When they perfect brain transplants he'll advertise his as hardly used.
Ohio st. sucks they probably will lose against Michigan & might play usc in a bowl game or Virginia tech
Let's GOOOOOOOO Mountaineers Most of the Appalachian residents (which you would deem 'hillbillies') actually supported the Union in the Civil War. West Virginia was formed as a result of it; Lincoln was obsessed with getting the Union army to Eastern Tennessee/Western North Carolina to support the Union voices there; even in northern Georgia my great great (great?) grandpappy got in trouble for supporting the Union (he was originally -- like me -- from New Jersey), and he was not alone.
Today's history lesson is sponsored by Colgate Fresh Gel. Wow. OSU players and fans really show their true colors. When they win, they burn and destory property. When they lose, they call out their fellow countrymen living below the Mason-Dixon Line and start a fight with the other team.
CLASS IS OUT IN COLUMBUS! Two things disturb me about tOSU's loss to Illinois today, and neither of them have anything to do with the game.
1. The national media has piled it on OSU all season about how they didn't belong anywhere near the top 10, much less the number one ranking that they inherited when "better" teams like Oregon and LSU had their trips. Lucky for those teams that the losses came early in the season, and a shame for OSU that they didn't lose an early game themselves. I fully expect OSU to drop out of the top ten come Monday, with sportswriters such as Stewart still living last year's game in this year's polls. 2. I'm equally perplexed that both OSU and UM seem to be completely befuddled by the spread offense. It particularly bothers me that OSU can't seem to defend it since it was their offense during Troy Smith's tenure. Both teams seem completely lost by teams running plays that are not "traditional" offenses. And, as a final note...the non-fumble didn't lost the game. Turning the ball over inside the ten yard line while throwing three interceptions (one into obvious double coverage) lost OSU the game. I believe that Illinois scored TDs on all of OSU's turnovers. Stewart (not Mandel), keep showing your ignorance, please, it's almost hilarious. How long has your family been on this continent? Learn some history. Plenty of living in "the south" today moved there after the civil war, and plenty of them immigrated to America in the twentieth century. There really aren't many who can trace their families back to the civil war--and if you can't, then shut up and stop talking about things that don't concern you and aren't part of your history. Having said that, it's important to remember that there are hicks all over the country north and south, east and west, and you sound like one of them--and an ignorant bigot, too.
anyone know why they didnt review that long run on the illini's first drive?
Thx, chrth, that's my point. Your ancestor must have been quite an independent thinking man.
TC:
There is plenty of class here in Columbus, or are you going to use that same brush to color every team based on the few "over the top" fans (including those of your own team)? I personally never felt that OSU was necessarily the best team out there, but I also thought they could hang with anyone in a bowl game, and I STILL think that. They lost a game tonight, the same way that pretty much every other top team has done. They learn and move on. In any case, and whatever happens, I'm proud of my team and the kids who are playing, and I'll continue to root for them and the rest of the Big 10 in bowl season. Good luck to all and congratulations to the Illini! As an UO fan i must say that i am so happy that OSU lost. Not because i dont like OSU but because the Big ten isnt that good of a confrence. Everyone knows that the sec is the best confrence.....they showed that to the big ten last year. Also in atleast my opinion the Pac10 is the secon best confrence. It just makes it right for the best team from the Sec to play the best team from the Pac10.
GO DUCKS! I really hope 'Stewart' isn't from Ohio. I am Jack's complete embarrassment. I am also sick of apologizing for the behavior of classless losers. But I refuse to apologize for the Butteyes fighting with the Illini after the game. That was just classless and uncalled for and I want everyone to say the same. Specifically, I'm speaking about #2 - Daniel Herron, a freshman RB from Warren, OH. To be fair, he's the only one who I can easily single out for assaulting a helmetless Illini player.
Thank you Illinois, hopefully Okla. loses too so as to avoid a blowout in the nat'l champ. game. hey maybe OSU and OU can play each other in a bowl game - could be the first time 2 teams get blown out in a single game!
Whining and classless defines the overrated Ohio St and their fans. Now that the Illini pu a beatdown on the buckies, maybe we can focus on who the really good teams are.
I hope they don't broadcast the OS Mich game south of Kentucky. LSU will destroy Oregon and Kanasas is way over rated too. Hey Charles, not to burst your bubble, but remember that if Tennessee wins out, they hold the tie-breaker over Georgia for the SEC championship. Don't buy tickets to the Superdome just yet.
Also, "Stewart," did you realize that LSU's loss came on the road to a ranked Kentucky team while OSU's loss came at home to a never-ranked Illinois team? How is OSU supposed to be the best 1-loss team in the country again? Oh that's right, you're comparing an entire conference (SEC road game win percentage) to one team (OSU's "amazing" success is the Big 10). But then what do I know, I'm just a "hillbilly" what listens to them thar facts an such. For the love of God, SI, please put an "ignore" feature on your blog systems... :)
BTW, Stewart, Lincoln (a hero of mine) very much wanted Robert Lee to head the Union army, but Lee was unable to do so since it meant turning his back on his beloved Virginia. And yes, I KNOW Virginia isn't in the SEC either...(sigh) Buckeye fan here, congratulations Illini on a well earned victory, you definitely deserve it. I would take Leman as one of my LBs anyday.
I would like to ask the poster known as "Stewart" to shut the hell up, because if he knew the true circumstances behind the Civil War and not what the politicians approve for grade, middle and High School, he wouldn't be making those ignorant comments. I would like to digress back to football now after that short social studies rant....I thought the Bucks would go 10-2 this year, it being a year with 1 senior on each side of the ball. So far they have exceeded my expectations and as much as I am p!ssed at Tressel for not giving Beanie the ball 30 times when it was obvious Boeckman was struggling, I am still proud of the Bucks. Let me also say Stewart Mandel makes me sick, way to be subjective. The Bucks will be giving your Wildcats swirlies until the end of time, don't worry about that. Mizzou beat Illinois on neutral site (AND LED 37-13 at one point). They have the "best" loss of all the one-loss teams (Oregon LOST AT HOME!). MU is killing people. I think they'll win out -- anything short of the BSC would be criminal.
And, still, I don't belive Stewart has even seen one Big 12 game and will be Quackin about his weekend in Eugene and probably Ryan for Heisman, regardless of what transpires in Nov. and the first week of Dec. as an ohio state alum i have to say im embarrassed by the bull$hi+ being posted on here from other osu fans.
firstly, i dont want to read any crap about how we beat ourselves. illinois played a great game. secondly, while i may wish the worst to the SEC teams after last year [jealousy???] these are simply class-less comments making the loss even harder. i am embarrassed by my fellow OSU fans. losing sucks, but at least lose with some dignity. It's just funny... Illinois (a Big Ten team) beats Ohio State and instantly Ohio State sucks... but when and SEC team beat another, it's just an example of how tough the SEC is. Same with Wisconsin and Michigan. I'm a Penn State fan by the way so there's certainly no OSU bias on my part. Illinois is a damn good team, but it get's dismissed because everyone still equates Ohio State with last year's title game.
College football experts and writers such as Stew and many others are getting nearly as bad as politicians. I can't wait until the bowl games this year when the SEC and the rest of the country get a wakeup call. I only wish that people would actually remember when the SEC loses in their out of conference games. I wish I could replay for you all what a local sportscaster here in Columbus just said: "We love you, Columbus" (pleadingly during the fade out) "Don't tear up the town tonight..."
To Bendy33....
You stated "Everyone knows that the sec is the best confrence.....they showed that to the big ten last year" Last year, if I recall correctly, the Big Ten was 2-1 against the SEC in bowl games. I'll give you the championship game. But the SEC got beat in the other 2 games. Funny how everyone forgets that!!!!!!!! SEC_Rules:
I think "classless" is the term that should come to you when looking in a mirror. It's frankly pretty stupid to cast aspersions against a team and entire set of fans, but then again pretty much everybody reading this knows that (except, apparently, you). By the way, you forgot to talk about how Big 10 fans (and the conference too) are also whining and classless, how every SEC team could beat every Big 10 team, blah blah blah. I know many fans from many different conferences, and the vast vast vast majority of them are 1) enthusiastic about their teams/conferences, but at the same time 2) friendly, a good sport, etc. How you handle winning tells you as much about class, dignity, character and honor as how you handle losing, and frankly isn't that what sports are all about? Teaching those things? I don't get why everyone hates the Buckeyes. It's not the team's fault that everyone ahead of them lost and they ended up #1 for a while. The players have been modest and respectful of their opponents in all the interviews I've seen, following the lead of their coach who is one of the classiest and best in college football. OSU fans have been the first to admit that we didn't expect to do so well this season -- it was supposed to be a "rebuilding" year.
I also think it's stupid to criticize the team because of the little fight after the game. You have no idea who started it, so it's not fair to say that it reflects badly only on the Buckeyes. It sounds like some people just want to make a big deal out of whatever little thing they can think of to tear down the Buckeyes. nobody "hates" the buckeyes (I actually rooted for them last year, being from big 10 country) - we just don't want another NC blowout
Jason:
Sorry you feel the way you do, but I think a number of comments on here from OSU fans are VERY classy, congratulating the Illini, showing good sportsmanship, etc. Similar to what Chris said, the Buckeyes have exceeded my expectations this year, and while I'm disappointed to see them lose, if they couldn't win this game it's tough to make a case that they're one of the two best teams (although Illinois is a great team). I'll look forward to some sanity once the OSU hating blows over, and a great NC game (between whoever it is) and good Big 10 games. Again, good luck to all. I grew up in California, and having lived in DC which I think is right in the middle of the north and south, I certainly have the opinion that the north and south thing is definitely at the heart of the Big10-SEC argument. The south resents getting their asses kicked, and the north resents having to foot the bill. We on the west coast wish we could disown you all. Pac10 rules!!!!!!
LSU clinches SEC West today without even playing an SEC team. They will for sure be playing in Atlanta on December 1st. Guess we'll wait to see who will win the East.
This Stewart guy cracks me up, hating on the southern states like he has been. Nevermind that the U.S. depends on the southern states for a whole bunch of things, including food, oil, and all that other stuff that apparently doesn't matter. The funny thing this person probably doesn't even realize or accept the fact that the southern states had a right to break off from the Union, especially since in the Presidential election, Lincoln wasn't even on the ballots in the south. Imagine if President Bush hadn't been on the ballots in the northern states, and he got elected. I'd be pissed too.
Jake:
I appreciate your comment, and I suppose it depends on how you define "hatred" but the vast majority of comments I've seen seem to have a ton of negativity in them directed at the team, fans, etc., NOT objective comments about how OSU isn't one of the top 2 teams. THAT is why you get comments like Mary's. This post has been removed by the author.
Larry don't take it personal if you weren't one of the OS fans last week giving me crap about SEC teams.
All you have to do is read the posts and you will see the whiners I was calling out. Do I think all Big Ten fans are classless? No of course not. I have been to games as a visitor at Florida field and their fans are truly the most classless! I may speak only for myself, but I think not. We are not as offended at OS for their #1 season long ranking as we are at the talking heads that kept them ranked there with a pathetically weak schedule. I also know that fighting like I saw on TV is classless regardless who threw the first punch. Oh yeah, and if I recall from the history books, it was Lincoln who had the first shots fired, so technically the northern states forced the war. I'm not hating on Lincoln, and it definetly was a good thing that the U.S. did become whole again, but to say the 'south sucks' really is quite ignornant, and I'm ashamed you live in the same country as I do.
Good point SasQuatch. Please disown us. Please. Just please don't throws us in dat briar patch. Please sa. Please don't throws us in da briar patch.
Ah it never changes. Win or lose, someone always wants to resurrect the Civil War.
Ok . . I'll play this time. W.T. Sherman did NOT burn Louisiana to the ground. He was one of the first Presidents (then called "superintendents" of LSU. Sherman Hall, on campus, is named for him. So you will have to blame that infamous General in part for LSU's existence, if not it's recent football success. If he was from Ohio, then so be it. As far as psychobabble from the PAC10 on the issue . . . hey, shakes and flakes . . . disown us all and find another place to "rule" . . it ain't working here! I have to agree on the whole "classiest coach" thing from Mary earlier. I'd branch that out, though, to include all of the Big Ten coaches as old school, humble and classy guys. I watch Tressel all of the time and agree he's a class act, win or lose.
But I disagree on how the fight at the end of the game reflects on the team. True, nobody knows who started it, but if you watch - at least this is what I personally saw - both teams were yelling at each other, but the Buckeyes were the ones who took it a step further and threw punches. I will never condone that, nor defend it. No matter who started it, OSU will end up on the short end of the stick looking like a sore loser. So, yes, in my eyes, it DOES bring them down a peg or two on the sportsmanship/class level and it's embarrassing for osu, tressel, and columbus. They need to learn how to win graciously AND lose graciously - just what Larry had said. One thing that will be interesting is to see how far they fall, because sportswriters like Stew have been salivating to lower them in favor of other "better" teams... SoCal:
I think it depends on where you live. While living in Richmond, VA, I thought of myself as a yankee, but guess what? I was told by people in South Carolina that they considered people from Richmond to be northerners. Go figure. As to disowning, you might be surprised to find that many in the north AND south might wish the same about CA! :) As to the Big 10/SEC thing, I think it's not just those two conferences. In all seriousness, I think the fundamental problem is that too many people have their self-esteem linked to their team/conference, rather than to their own accomplishments, character and behavior. And/or maybe we just like to talk. Mandel, you are a freaking moron!
For Jeremiahb - No bubble here for Tenn or GA. It just seems clear that Tenn is not one of the better SEC teams this year and Georgia is. I just thought GA had a chance against LSU, but in reality Fla is the only SEC team that can go toe to toe with LSU.
Ohio St has done well, but has measured itself against Big Ten competition. For Illinois to defeat them at 'their house' does not speak well of OSU. I was surprised and thought only Mich had a chance, but after today Mich needs help in more ways than one. A while back I lifted a toast to Fla for it ride in football & basketball. That ride does not happen often. I would urge OSU fans to do the same for Ohio St. And for those who dump on OSU it is too bad but only Fla has provided a similar ride for its fans. Amen Larry. On that note I'll STFU.
I think LSU-Oregon would be great, hope they can win out. Who knows, maybe WVU or KS or someone can sneak in there.
Just please no OSU or OU. Nothing against those schools, I'm sure they're both fine institutions...I just don't want another blowout...that's not asking too much, is it? SEC:
I get your point, and yeah there are plenty of idiotic comments to go around! I know I personally get a little "mentally irregular" (to quote Rocky) about this stuff, and I consider myself pretty sane most of the time! :) I'll digress one more time, and mention an observation. After the tragic events of 9/11, as tough as it was for everybody we continued to play games. But at least to me (and I think to others) it was clear that there were other, more important things out there. Did it diminish the intensity? No, of course not. But it seemed to me that at the end of the games, there were more guys from both teams holding hands in prayer, and/or congratulating one another, etc. It seemed to really help put things in perspective, you know? I wish we could get back to those kinds of days, where the larger learnings of character and class and dignity and respect for others were the wins that both teams (and their fans) had, regardless of the actual score. I was at a recent BYU home game, and it started off with a prayer. While I KNOW public schools can't (and shouldn't) do this, I have to tell you it felt VERY different. Hearing someone ask that both teams players play with honor, etc. really was different. And it felt like exactly the way it SHOULD be. I think it's great that BYU does that. Enough ranting from me. Sorry for the comment, SEC_Rules, and I truly wish you all nothing but the best (even those who can't seem to keep from dragging the civil war back up). Good luck to all, and I'll look forward to you non-Big 10 folks being surprised by us in the bowl games! :) Larry:
Very interesting points, it's amazing how different regions within our country are. But wasn't Richmond the capital of the confederacy? Makes me wonder how people in south carolina could consider you a yankee. We whine about how partisan this country is, but is it really any different than it's ever been? Democracy is all about recognizing our differences and finding a rational way to make compromises. At least that's what I thought when I was in school. We don't have to agree on everything, that's why I post here, I love arguing about things like football which really don't hurt anyone. h@gmail.com
These are tange times when pwople want to relive the civil war(almost 150 years ago) when talking about football.
OSU is a good team, but our expectations were not really that high this year, really. We do have 21 non-seniors on our team and will be better next year. Having said that, the whole idea that the big ten sucks seems silly - they have been beating up on each other, much like the SEC, but perceptions seem to be that Big Ten teams lose to each other because they are no good, while SEC teams lose to each other because they are good. Georgia beat the heck out of Auburn today but barely beat Troy last week. There are many examples of this in both conferences, but again, the perception is much different for some reason. Remember - the Big Ten was 2-1 against the SEC in the bowls last year Ohio State fans... You guys are (seriously) a class act. You beat our MSU Spartans year in and year out, but never rub our noses in it.
That being said, I was happy to see you lose, like many others, because I'm afraid the entire BIG 10 is weak this year, and am not sure you belong in the title game. It's nothing against your team. You've had a great season, to be sure, but the whole conference is weak this year. Win next week (PLEASE beat the arrogant as*** from U of M), and go win the Rose bowl!! SEC_Rules:
I can't help but protest to your comment about values and prayer. Who defines them? If we're supposed to be about freedom of religion then that means that schools cannot have prayer sessions or stress values. Because you can't pray or stress values without a foundation, and those foundations are religions. Therefor it's impossible to pray or stress values without endorsing a religion. Hence the 1st amendment. What amazes me is that religious people don't get is that the 1st amendment is actually insurance for their beliefs. Before you Big Tenners get your groove on about last year's bowls, lets not over look a very important fact. You were playing our mid conference teams in the two games other than the national championship games which we won handily.
Our 2nd and 3rd best teams were playing in and winning other major bowls. Your 2n d best team beat our #4 team and your 3rd beat our #5 based on win loss records. The overalls bowl records were SEC 6-3 Big Ten 2-4 I am hoping for a big win in Ann Arbor, but unfortunately, UM has made the least of their talent this year and actually lost to a I-AA team. That brought down perceptions of the entire conference this year and even when we win, it will be minimized
A couple of comments:
1. Illinois played a great football game. Let's not detract from this. Give credit where credit is due. 2. Ohio State doesn't suck. Did everyone instantly forget the Penn State and Wisconsin poundings the last two weeks. Everyone knew it would be tough to go undefeated considering the Buckeyes' last four games (@PSU, UW, UI, @UM). 3. The referees called a TERRIBLE game. It took a body slam of Vernon Gholston for the refs to call one holding penalty. 4. You do NOT dance on the Block "O". That is CLASSLESS. Excuse Ohio State players for defending something that is very sacred to them and everyone associated with the university. Ohio State has been humble, classy, and respectful all season. They are not thugs. 5. (and most importantly) Most incidents that occur off-campus are by students who do NOT even go to Ohio State. Read the galorous arrest stats and find out for yourself. Similar to the now famous video of the Penn State fan harassing an OSU fan at a fratnerity party... the PSU fan goes to Pitt. My Buckeyes let me down today in my last football game as a student there, but we can still beat M*ch!g@n and head to the Rose Bowl. Go Buckeyes!!! We did have a bad bowl season last year, except for when we played the SEC
SEC rules - I think you're wrong, I don't know all the figures but I do know that Big 10's 2nd best team last year was Mich., and they played (and gut their butt kicked by) USC.
Even though I went to OSU and made the above comments, I do in fact think the SEC is strongest this year. But I think that thing have been much exaggerated by the pres, and Mandel in particular
Did God make us throw those 3 interceptions today, or was it the devil?
You'd think this year might be a poster child for a playoff system. I mean, at this point are there two teams which obviously deserve to play for the championship more than the others?
There is LSU and its SEC schedule -- and more than a couple wins decided by gutsiness/sheer dumb luck (depending on your perspective). There is Oregon taking command of the Pac-10, but their loss came to a team that immediately turned around and reeled off three straight losses. There is Kansas, which is still undefeated (with the Okla St game in progress at this point) and yet nobody seems to know how good they really are. Then there are a passel of other one-lossers: OU, Missouri, WVU, OSU, BC, ASU. Can anyone really say at this point that two of these teams are clearly better than all the others? Stewart (not Mandel), you rock. You are either just trying to get people emotional, or you are a 16 year old. Its ok, Stu. I remember the first time my parent's left me home unsupervised. Anyway, you entertain me, and I thank you.
Back to the adults. RE: "OSU hating", I do not think its personal and your schedule is not the fault of your team. Staking a claim as the top team in the nation without playing anyone in the top 25 is silly. Oh right, they played #25, but really. At least LSU, #1 again (with thanks) played a few gimmies, #7, and 4 other top 20 teams. An L is an L, but at least the L was to a top 20 team. Back to Stu. Regurgitation (means throwing back up) of tother's words you heard around the dinner table does not an adult conversation make. Out. to shookjer_gopsu
You stated "Last year, if I recall correctly, the Big Ten was 2-1 against the SEC in bowl games. I'll give you the championship game. But the SEC got beat in the other 2 games. Funny how everyone forgets that!!!!!!!!" SEC 1 (UF) plays Big10 1 (OSU), SEC wins Big10 3 (MICH) plays Pac10 1 (SoCal), Pac10 wins SEC 2 (Ark) plays Big10 2 (Wisc), Big 10 wins SEC 3 (LSU) plays ND, ND loses so bad they're still losing SEC 4 (AUB) plays Big12 2?3? (Nebraska), SEC wins SEC 5 (UT) plays Big10 4 (PSU), Big10 wins SEC 6 (UGa) plays ACC 4 (VT), SEC wins Big10 8 (Iowa) plays Big12 4 (Tex), Big 12 wins SEC wins 2 others (SC, UK) Big10 loses 2 others (Minn, PUR) So yeah, Big 10 beat SEC in 2 other games, by playing lower 'seeds'. Meanwhile, the SEC was pounding everyone else flat, and doing it with their lower 'seeds' against higher-finishing teams from other conferences (UK over Clemson, UGa over VT, Auburn over Nebraska) and Big 10 teams were losing to other teams - Iowa was expected, but Purdue lost of Maryland, and Minnesota lost the biggest all-time bowl comeback (again - in case you forgot, they did it already once in 2000 to NC St) Big 10 underperformed last year, and they two SEC teams they beat were weaker teams in the conference standings, since LSU was busy winning a BCS game (while Mich was losing theirs) and the rest of the conference was beating higher-placed teams from other conferences (Big 12, ACC, etc) Jake:
I was using Wisconsin as your 2nd best based on season win loss records. They had better record than Mich. You are second Big 10 fan that said Michigan was the second best team. If you say Mich was 2nd best that is good enough for me. sec_rules: Oddly, yeah, I think this is a football blog.
And don't get me started on the number of immoral and obscene acts done by self-proclaimed religious persons, either hypocritically or with the covert or overt support of their religion. Prayer and worship don't grant, in and of themselves, moral or any other kind of superiority. (Nor in football. "Touchdown Jesus" doesn't seem to be helping ND much this year, which seems to indicate that it is actual human beings on the field for ND like any other team ;) SEC Rules - yeah but if I remember right (I could be wrong) Wis. had better record than Mich. only after the bowl game - going in, they were tied record-wise, but Mich. had beaten Wis., so was 2nd in Big 10.
Sometimes I wonder if people remember things well. Going into the bowls last year, Wisconsin and Michigan were both 11-1 going into the bowls
I think the comment that "SEC Rules" just made speaks for itself
Sheesh.
Values, held by we and passed on to our children come from many institutions. Educational, religious, political, and through socialization via media and personal contact. Ultimately, as Adam Smith and later Kant noted, they come from within and are a matter of both faith and reason. As a wise philosopher once sang "I don't believe that heaven waits for only those who congregate." Obligatory observation on (interregional) politics and religion aside . . . Condolences to tOSU fans. You have a good team and perhaps a great team next year. As Stewart (the Mandel one) indicates (which I think was taken wrong by some) you are not out of the BCS chase yet. Congratulations to Illinois. I'm impressed! One more . . . Geaux Tigres! Sasquatch:
Thank you for your condolence and actually giving a thoughtful answer. |
