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SI.com college football writer Stewart Mandel shares his commentary, analysis and random tidbits on the latest developments around the country.12/01/2007 11:22:00 PM Champ. Saturday Observations, Part IV
Well … we’ve officially seen it all.
The No. 2 ranking truly has been a curse all season. USC. Cal. USF. Boston College. Oregon. All of them lost to unranked teams.
But the No. 2 team losing to Rutgers in mid-October is one thing. No. 2 West Virginia losing at home to 4-7 Pittsburgh the final weekend of the season with a national-championship spot theirs for the taking is only the most baffling result yet in a season already entirely devoid of logic.
Obviously, Ohio State is now in. Considering the course this season has taken, the Buckeyes inadvertently played it smart: They waited until there were no games left to rise back up to No. 2.
If the current Oklahoma-Missouri score holds up (it’s 35-17 Sooners midway through the fourth quarter as I write this), Ohio State will bypass No. 2 altogether.
In which case, the question obviously becomes, “Who should face the Buckeyes?”
That’s the question I’m going to take some time right now to seriously consider before giving any further thoughts. By my count, there are no fewer than seven teams – Georgia, Kansas, Virginia Tech, LSU, USC, Oklahoma and Hawaii -- that can make a case, which is simply staggering.
Luke Winn will be providing a first-hand account of West Virginia’s demise later tonight. You’ll hear from me as well soon enough.posted by Stewart Mandel | View comments |Comments:
How about the 2 loss team that just won their conference championship over the #1 team (ya know, the #1 team with victories over Kansas and Illinois) in the country?...and they didn't need 300 overtimes (ahem...LSU) to do it.mr mandel, how far are we from the BCS implosion???Well, this season has officially gone off the deep end. I don't think we'll ever see another one like it. The Luckeyes definitely lived up to their name again, and they're the last team I want to see in there. I think LSU deserves the other spot.Stewart, I love your columns and blogs, but I've gotta' laugh after today...didn't you call this your "nightmare scenario?"
I don't know who my Buckeyes will play for the NC (tell me ANY of you saw that coming), but if it's LSU I think I'm going to cry. Not that they aren't a good team, but to rise from number seven to number two seems a travesty with UGA not playing and VT winning their conference today over a ranked BC team. I know the SEC fans out there want to see their champion play for the title, but seriously, can LSU really leapfrog VT AND UGA?bgault, you're gonna laugh at that but I did bet on the Buckeyes for a natl title spot after they lost to illinoisGeorgia: didn't win their division
Kansas: ditto
USC: lost to Stanford at home
Hawaii: non-BCS with the weakest non-conference schedule ever
V Tech: lost to LSU by 41
So it comes down to a coin flip between Oklahoma and LSU. Oklahoma lost on the road to 6-6 Colorado and 9-3 Texas Tech.
LSU lost on the road to 7-5 Kentucky in triple OT and at home to 8-4 Arkansas in triple OT. I think it comes down to a coin toss between Oklahoma and LSU. As an LSU fan, GEAUX TIGERS!!!!How about Virginia Tech for the NC against OSU? They won their conference championship and are currently ahead of LSU in the BCS.This post has been removed by the author.Worth reposting:
The computers are 33% of the total. What that means:
USC and Oklahoma will not be in the NC game. They're too far back in the computer rankings. It doesn't matter what logic you apply to the situation as to why they 'deserve' to be in the title game, THEY WILL NOT BE IN THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.
LSU is hurt by the fact that they played Tennessee while VT played BC. The computers respect BC more. Since Tech was already head of LSU in the computer rankings, I imagine they'll open the gap a little more.
Kansas is barely ahead of Georgia in the computers (.840 vs .830) and I imagine the Missouri loss will cause them to swap positions. So I'm pretty sure Georgia will be #2 in the computer rankings, and Virginia Tech very well may be #3.
If Georgia is 2 and VT is 3, it's going to depend on how concerted the human voters are. If half the voters put Georgia at 2, they're in the NC game. But let's say the humans put LSU at 2 and Georgia at 3.
LSU would have still probably need to be at least 3 in the computer rankings to get in the NC game. And I don't think they'll leapfrog Kansas or VT, putting them 5TH in the computer rankings. 2+2+5=3rd place. 3+3+2=2nd place.
And that assumes all the voters put LSU in 2nd place. I'm sure there will be plenty that have Georgia in 2. The more I look at it, the more I think it's Georgia.Marcus: If it were to come down to between LSU and OU, then do you take the team that won their conference championship by a touchdown against a #14 team who got blown out by Alabama and Florida and lost to 6-6 Cal (losers to Stanford)....
...or do you take OU, which won their conference championship by three touchdowns against the #1 team in the nation, who had previously only lost to OU?OK, obviously OSU becomes the logical choice for #1. But as to #2? Oy! No clue who deserves it. I'm actually glad I'm not a sportswriter, coach, Harris Poll voter, etc. At this rate, they could write the names of all the remaining 118 D-I teams, toss darts at them, and pick the one the most darts land on. It's as logical as anything else that happened this season.Predicted bowl lineup:
NC: OSU vs Georgia
Orange: WVU vs VT
Rose: USC vs Illinois
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs Arizona State
Sugar: LSU vs Hawaii or Kansaschrth,
Let's hope those aren't the bowls we end up with. Those matchups suck.By the way, Hawaii is trailing early. Naturally.i hate to say it, b/c neither of them are in the top 3 or 4 teams in the country, but it probably should be OSU and Hawaii.
I don't see how UGA or KU can get in - the fact is other teams finished ahead of them in their conferences..how can you be the national champion without winning your conference.
LSU is probably the best team - and I'm a huge buckeye fan - but with four conference champs with two losses you can't really say one deserves it over another - so why not OSU & Hawaii? No one will consider this year's champion truly legit anyways, so why not go for the once-in-a-lifetime story angle?jeremy:
It is what it is. VT vs WVU is definitely happening, and should be a good matchup (presuming White keeps his pinkie protected). The PAC-10 teams will probably go 0-2.Let me put forth another fun scenario:
Split Championship.
Georgia squeaks by OSU in the NC, and thus earns the Coaches Poll #1.
VT or LSU absolutely crushes WVU or Kansas (won't work for LSU if they play Hawaii), and they get the AP #1.
Good times, good times.OU and Neb went to national championship games without winning their conference. Whats worse was OU was bombed by Kstate and still made it that year.I think USC should be able to beat any team that was held to only 6 pts by Iowa.One final thing I want to say before I go watch UW slaughter Hawaii some more:
It is absolutely ridiculous, after all that has happened this season with unranked teams beating top 1 and 2; that there is very likely going to be a 2-loss team in the national championship; and that Stanford beat USC and Cal this season ...
that any of us can say for sure who will win any matchup. I mean, seriously. You think you can predict the outcome of the national championship game? Based on what? Momentum? Record? Conference?
If you think so, you haven't been paying attention to this season.This post has been removed by the author.And the ultimate irony of the season. . . the #2 team going into the NC game will likely win.PLAYOFF!!!!!Ok, providing Hawaii overcomes an early 14-0 hole against Washington... which would show they're resilient, if not error-prone a little... then here's one more reason they should go to the NC game.
Ohio State is a shoe-in, due to only one loss and a Big 10 Championship. Their non-conference schedule... home games against Youngstown St. (Div II), Akron (record of 4-8), Ken State (record of 3-9), and at Washington (currently 4-8).
Hawaii's non-conference schedule... home games against Northern Colorado (Div. II) and Charleston Southern (Div. II), at UNLV (record of 2-10), and at Washington (again, currently 4-8).
The only difference between the two is another Division II game instead of a lowly non-BCS conference team. This season, is that all that big of a difference? (Michigan says no, btw.)
If Hawaii loses at Washington, though... then I give up. I'll go back to only rooting for my Sooners, and the hell with the rest of Division I.Every argument about who "should" go or who can realistically go, depending on computer rankings, depending on how many people vote in the poll the way they've been voting all year and how many of them vote to put a certain team in the NC game regardless of how they've been voting and regardless of who lost to whom lost to whom lost to whom leads to only one reasonable conclusion, that has been long, long, LONG overdue:
WE NEED A PLAYOFF.
No one knows who the #1 or #2 teams in the country "really" are right now... heck, how can they? #1 and #2 teams just keep losing so often this year, how can you have any confidence?
We might as well pick two teams out of a hat at this point. Honestly, no matter how weak you say Hawaii's schedule is (and how right you are), you have to wonder if this season, of all seasons, going undefeated (assuming -- and this season, this is a big assumption -- that they can take care of UW) should mean more than ever.
The simple truth is that there's no way to tell who the two best teams, much less the best team, is, and thanks to the BCS we aren't going to know.
WE NEED A PLAYOFF.
What is it going to take?
Is every college football fan going to have to boycott buying tickets to games, is every Nielsen viewer going to have to switch away from college football games (even Notre Dame games) from now until the end of time before anyone notices?
Is God Himself going to have to descend in a chariot of fire with a choir of 777 angels to write across the sky in 432-foot-tall letters of living flame "XI : THOU SHALT NOT HAVE A BCS"?
Will Xenu the intergalactic warlord have to infiltrate Earth and, using his advanced alien technology, tattoo directives directly into the alleged brain tissue of the BCS commissioners to institute a playoff system like virtually every other known sport in the galaxy? (Including, I should say, football at just about every other level of competition....)
WE NEED A PLAYOFF.
I don't care about protests about the season being too long. We already have teams playing 13 games. I don't care about protests over money -- there would be MORE money to be made in a playoff system which caused a whole battery of bowl games to become more relevant than expensive exhibition games. I don't care about concerns over picking the playoff teams, because any such system would have to be better than the current BCS system -- heck, the basketball NCAA tournament manages somehow.
WE NEED A PLAYOFF.Wood, it's not the nonconference schedule that's hurting Hawaii, it's the conference schedule. The SOS rank is a difference of 50 between OSU and UH.mjd:
Not going to happen. The BCS will be scrapped entirely and we'll go back to bowl affiliations for conference champions before a playoff occurs.mjd,
the simple answer is this: convince the BCS committee and conference presidents that a playoff would be more profitable, since money is the first, last, and only driving force in how college football is organized.I agree with a playoff. When I take over the world, that will be one of the first big changes I make. That, and requiring the Celebrity Crush to have a candlelit dinner with Stewart.Here's the thing about the BCS. What happens when college football fans (especially casual fans) become disgruntled enough by the beauty pagents that decide who plays in the national title game? If there are a few more regular seasons like this soon, most college football fans won't care anymore because nothing gets sorted out at the end. And once they stop caring, they stop watching. What happens when few people are watching?
Oh, and by the way, Washington just went up 21-0 on Hawaii. Wow!21 to 0 washington. Hawaii's schedule is a joke. Washington is not even a good team.personally, I'm ok with either going back to the old bowl system or going to a playoff. Either way, the Rose Bowl can go back to being a traditional Pac-10 / Big 10 matchup as it was when I had the good fortune to attend USC, which is how I like it. Let it be the elimination game between those 2 conferences in a playoff system. I'd be all for it.tOSU's schedule isn't much better than Hawaiis.
I'd put LSU, OK, VT, and USC ahead of tOSU, in that order.jeremy:
You misunderstand the depth of commitment these college football fans have. OSU can fill up any stadium in the nation with their fans. Ditto UM, Notre Dame, and maybe USC by now. SEC matchups are packed.
It's not the casual fans that bring in the money. That go to the games (no matter where they are), buy the merchandise, paint their faces, etc. The NFL wishes it could have the level of devotion that college football has.
Unless a lot of people stop going to college, I don't foresee this changing. It won't be the masses that change the presidents' or the commissioners' minds.boaz:
It's 50 ranks better. OSU's SOS is closer to LSU's than OSU's is to Hawaii's.
And it's higher than Oklahoma.Washington is beating an undefeated team? How is that possible? Washington lost to Ohio State, and everyone knows Ohio State hasn't beaten anybody (end sarcasm)
A lot of people complain about the BCS, but no system that doesn't end in a playoff is ever going to solve every argument. If this same season had happened in 1990, OSU and USC would be playing in the Rose Bowl, LSU would be in the Sugar Bowl, and Oklahoma would be in the Orange Bowl. That obviously wouldn't solve much.Here's what I know...all you Ohio State haters out there (and this apparently includes you on some level Stewart) can eat crow, because the Buckeyes are going to be playing for the National Championship again. I really don't care who we play, but I personally think it should be between UGA or VT. Nothing says you have to win your conference to play for the NC, and to leapfrog UGA by either OU or LSU seems to be an awfully big stretch.I guess in this season, I should not be surprised that a hitherto-undefeated Hawaii should be down big early to Washington, of all teams.
As for how to get a playoff -- I mean, yeah, it's about the money. But how would a playoff generate less money? How could it fail to generate more?
First of all, you generate more interest in bowls other than the championship. A game like the Gator Bowl becomes a lot more interesting to a wider audience if it is a quarterfinal game rather than two teams from conferences whose games you might not have ever seen.
Second of all, if big devoted followings like those of, for instance, Ohio State, is where the big money is... then how can it be a bad thing, from a monetary point of view, to give a big-name team with a colossal following the opportunity to fill MULTIPLE postseason bowls with eager fans?
Thirdly, a playoff system would not necessarily eliminate the non-playoff bowls any more than the BCS eliminated the non-BCS bowls. Those bowls are already purely showcase games between teams of good to modest records, mainly of interest only to the fans of the actual teams involved. Under a playoff system, they would still generate the revenue they do now, while playoff bowls could only generate more interest and more money than current BCS (and upper-tier non-BCS) bowls.
I know that inertia is a stunningly powerful force, but in terms of pure profit motive why *wouldn't* you want to have a playoff?I am happy for Ohio State fans that they will be in NC game again. Hopefully they can avoid getting their asses handed to them again by whoever they play.
I am actually rooting for that outcome; it will further underscore how desperately a playoff is needed.Why don't we all accept the fact that Ohio State will lose to whatever team they play? After we can accept this future reality we can then start asking how we can schedule LSU vs USC. This is the game we really need and want.The problem I have with Ohio State and the big ten is that they look slow. It does not help that OSU loses huge to Florida and Michigan loses to Appy St and Oregon that are speed teams. Those are your two glamor teams. It also does not help that Ohio State's only nonconference team of note has a losing record.
Of course next year they plac usc so they will not have that problem.I think the only teams that would deserve to go against OSU (who I really don't think deserves to go in the first place) are VT and LSU. If Georgia and Kansas can't win their conference let alone their divisions within their conference can you really let them be in the national championship? I wouldn't.tOSU fans have short memories. They will get embarassed in NC.Everyone at SI.com picked #1 Missouri. All of you sang their praises. If they were so good and OU demolished them by 21 on a neutral site, then OU has to be in the title game, no exceptions. If you don't vote them 1 or 2 then your columns before the game were baseless. Bring on OU vs. OSU. Nobody wants to play OU right now. Also, give Sam Bradford some credit.There's only two justifiable cases in my mind. Kansas is one, given that they're the only other team in the picture with one loss, and their one loss was very close and in a rivalry game. The other would be LSU, which won its conference, played the toughest schedule in the country and didn't lose in regulation all year.
Neither Georgia, nor Virginia Tech, nor Oklahoma should get in ahead of those two teams. In the Bulldogs and Hokies' cases, the reasons why LSU should be ahead of them are obvious. As far as Kansas is concerned, for Georgia, they're in a similar situation to Kansas where they got squeezed out of a shot to play for their conference title, but lost twice rather than once in doing so. Virginia Tech is a bit harder as far as Kansas is concerned being that they won the ACC, but two losses on their record (one of them real bad) is enough to sell me on the Jayhawks being more deserving.
Oklahoma presents a more interesting situation. Yes, they won the Big 12, but I'd still rank them behind Kansas for two bad in-season losses, one of which was to a team Kansas beat (Colorado). As far as LSU's concerned, they're on more even footing but LSU's stronger schedule wins out for me.
Anyone who tries to make a case for USC or Hawaii is smoking crack.First off, I don't think OSU deserves to be in NC. And I think whoever it is that gets to play them will win.
Also, Out of the teams Stewart lists as having an argument for being #2 I would say only VT or LSU should be considered. If you can't win your conference or even your division of your conference (Kansas and Georgia) then you don't deserve to be in the NC. Oklahoma is too far behind and as of right now Hawaii is down 21-0 to... Washington.I think they should call the All-State Championship off, because no one deserves it. You can talk all you want about LSU being a disappointment, and I actually don't disagree with you. However Stew, it was you and the rest of the voters who put them on the pedestal to begin with. And now teams that you didn't put on a pedestal look like a great ones. Certainly, we can all agree that the Buckeyes should play in the championship game - one the Ohio High School Athletic Association games. After all, that's pretty much what their schedule reflected anyway.The Big Game of the bowl season (if the Rose Bowl Committee mans up and does it) would be Georgia vs. USC. The two hottest teams in the country would dwarf even an LSU/OSU matchup as far as interest, implications going into next season, and flat-out watchability. Hats off to LSU for winning the toughest conference in the land, but seeing another SEC team whup fraudulent OSU two years in a row makes for boring TV.If you have to win your conference to be the NC, then Notre Dame should have to give back all of their trophies. Go Dawgs...Sic Em'!USC Fan here:
We don't deserver to go to the Championship game, we didn't get it done, period and I'm quite happy with the Rose Bowl anyway. What we should do is play Ohio State in the Rose, and the winner go on from there.
I've heard a lot about the Pac-10 and Big-10 not playing a championship game, but we do get to play every school in our league, unlike others so it's not necessary. In fact, having to beat your opponent the second time instead of the first time to move on seems a bit unfair.
Either way, OSU and VT are my votes, Georgia didn't win their conference.and yes bgault....LSU SHOULD jump a Georgia team that was blown out by Tennessee, lost one other game, didn't win the SEC East or play in the SEC Championship, or win the SEC Championship.OSU SHOULD NOT BE IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. yes they have 1 loss, but they have only beaten 1 team that right now is ranked (Wisc). Va. Tech beat 3 ranked teams (BC, UVA, Clemson) and lost 2 BUT to the current #7 and #11 team (LSU, BC) and avenged that BC loss. Oklahoma has an argument too. They beat 3 ranked teams currently ranked #20, #1, and well #1. there loss to Texas Tech isn't so bad (they are #27), but Colorado hurts there cause. LSU has 4 wins over ranked teams and two losses over teams currently #26 and #31. Basically OSU has one quality win. While Va. Tech and Oklahoma have 3. It all comes down to which is better 1 quality win and loss, or 3 quality wins and 2 losses. On a neutral field i think LSU and Oklahoma are the two best teams in the country, Oklahoma getting the edge over Va. Tech cause LSU destroyed them.
P.S. we need a playoffGeorgia deserves to go to the National Championship game against Ohio State. LSU does not deserve to go. They did not look strong in the game against Tennessee. They lost 2 games but they barely won other games all season long winning in the last seconds against Alabama, Florida, Auburn, etc. They have been living on the edge all season. Georgia's losses were early because they have 3 true freshmen on the OLine and once they began to learn the offense, Georgia has been on fire. They beat Florida, Auburn, Kentucky all with ease by large margins. I think they will beat Ohio State if given the opportunity. They have played most of the season with only one RB and many injuries but have had a magical season. They deserve the chance to play for the national title. No WAY LSU deserves to jump UGA and VT should not either. Everyone knows the ACC is not as strong as the SEC to play in and LSU crushed them.I think that the pick will be OSU vs. LSU. Yes you can say LSU has struggled but they have been injured half of the season. (Wait, isnt that when the struggles started). Give them a month to heal and I bet people get a very different opinion of them.
Personally, I think if you dont have a true conference championship game and you dont win your division or conference, you should not be able to play in the title game. I think if you are declared your conferences #1 team, you shouldnt have to worry about the team ranked higher than you (in your conference) getting a shot. I heard Mark Richt earlier on ESPN and he tried using technicalities. "The rules dont state you have to win your conference to play for the title." That is as weak as Milton Berls bladder.
Not bashing on OSU or USC, but you have no true CCG. The past few years, I think USC is way better than OSU. I feel the Big 10 is weaker and for OSU to sit back 2 weeks and slide in is one of the big factors that make the BCS CRAP. I dont think OSU will win this year and you better pray that you dont play LSU or Oklahoma or USC. You cant beat any of them this year.
I love college football.stu,
Write a book about this season alone and highlight the flaws of the bcs. In fact, I am sure you could get enough publicity to get congress involved to investigate NCAA revenue generating practices in the BCS era. The Mandel nation would stand by you and quite possibly elect you vice prez on Stephen colbert's ticket. Get 'er done.Hawai'i's on the board ... 21-7Please, God ... anyone but LSU. There's no way the nation could withstand another five weeks of the most obnoxious -- and most often just plain wrong -- fans in the history of football.
USC, fine. Georgia, fine. Oklahoma, fine. Hawaii, fine. Just, please, not LSU. I swear, if LSU is rewarded for losing twice to overrated teams from the most overrated conference at any level, I'll start watching the NFL.
Thank you for listening, God.hey drdreama,
Did UGA win the SEC East?
Did UGA play in the SEC Championship Game?
Did UGA win the SEC Championship Game?
Did UGA lose horribly to Tennessee?
Didn't LSU's losses only combine for a lack of 4 points?
Didn't LSU's lost games come in triple overtime?
I'm not saying LSU deserves to play....but what are you smoking that makes you believe UGA should play for the NC before LSU does?This post has been removed by the author.Well it didn't take long for Les "CryBaby" Miles to take a shot at the dawgs! On SportsCenter he made reference to Tennessee playing in the "other" division and thinking that they had played Georgia. Also, he noted that his LSU team is undefeated this year in "regulation!" What a joke, it doesn't matter when or how you lose it Les, you still lost two games. Who knows what's going to happen...GEUAX DAWGS!ATTENTION: CONFERENCES WITH LESS THAN 12 TEAMS CANNOT HAVE A CHAMPIONSHIP GAME BY NCAA RULES AND THOSE THAT DO, DO SO VOLUNTARILY ($$$$$). SO, STOP USING THAT AS A JUSTIFICATION AS TO WHY ONE CONFERENCE (TEAM) ISN'T DESERVING WHILE ANOTHER IS. YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!I think the BCS owes the fans an evenly matched national championship. That "powerhouse" Ohio State is going for sure. I hope their opponent is ...... say ..... Air Force. That would be worth watching, unlike last year's debacle!!This post has been removed by the author.Maybe Les thinks he deserves the point that they award in Hockey for an overtime loss?Dukester,
So is your mom's room right next to yours? Cause you sound like you're either a teenager or you still live with your parents."If OSU were to win the Championship game, would it be the only National Championship winner to never have beat a Top 25 team in the regular season?"
What? OSU beat 3 top 25 teams during the season who were ranked at the time, and 1 that is ranked now.
Now, if Kansas was to win the NC, then your question is valid.Wow! So many comments based on absurd insane emotion. Just heard a radio interview by one of the voters who put it in perspective. To paraphrase he pointed out that you don't suddenly vote a previous #7 or #9 team at #2 when only two teams ahead of them lost (in fact they probably wouldn't even jump ahead of the two teams that lost). Using Georgia and LSU as an example, he stated that when he voted GA ahead of LSU last week it was with the assumption LSU would beat a much lower ranked team in Tennessee. It had nothing to do with the SEC title (which was just another game). And the fact that LSU barely got by Tennessee would in no way justify pushing them to number two. He went on to point out that last weeks votes would have no credibility if we had teams leapfrogging others teams that did not lose today.The only thing more ridiculous than the way this season has turned out is the tortured logic of college football fans in arguing the case for their favored team making a NC game appearance.
"they didn't lose in regulation". . . has got to be the single most absurd argument I've heard to date in trying to turn losses into wins (oh, I'm sorry. . non-losses)
thanks, chrth, for the rare factual analysis. I think you're probably right about how the BCS will sort this mess out.This season is not an argument for a playoff, it's an argument for the old bowl system. A playoff would just give a you a two-loss champion who got lucky over a few games that negated the regular season.
The old bowl system would have given traditional conference matchups and would not have provided a clear champion - as should be the case in a sport where teams play such limited schedules.
That said, I live in Champaign, but the Rose should take Missouri over Illinois since they beat them head-to-head, and I'd take LSU in the title game, largely because they beat Virginia Tech easily. It's not mentioned much, but Oklahoma's non-conference schedule was bad as well.
The change that needs to be made in college football is not a playoff, but taking non-conf scheduling away from the schools and making teams play similarly strengthed non-conf schedules.For all you FU#%ING idiots out there crying about a conference championship game...YOU NEED 12 TEAMS IN A CONFERENCE TO HAVE ONE. Thus, the Pac-10, Big Ten, and Big East don't have conference championships because THEY DON'T HAVE TWELVE TEAMS IN THE CONFERENCE! I know this is a hard concept for some of you, but really...get over it. The SEC and the Big XII made the conference title game for one reason, and one reason only - $$$$. It generates additional revenue for the conference.
And, for those crying that LSU should leapfrog UGA because of Tennesee's victory over the 'Dawgs...Georgia beat Kentucky, and they didn't even need overtime to do it. They also whipped the same Auburn team that LSU needed a miracle play to beat. See, I can do it too. (And this is coming from an OSU fan, so I have no loyalty to UGA)All I gots to say is this:
LSU (#1 at the time) beat VT THREE MONTHS AGO, AT LSU's HOME FIELD, when the VT O-Line was depleted, VT QB was shaky, and Matt Flynn's p*ssy was feeling great at the time. BC (#2 at the time) got a gift win in the last two minutes to beat VT. Since then, VT destroyed GT, Miami, FSU, UVA (in C'ville), and today spanked BC in great passing weather (in your face Matt Ryan). Now Sean Glennon is hitting Eddie Royal consistently for 25-yard completetions or TDs, and Vince Hall and Xavier Adidbi are playing hungry. I think it takes them awhile to figure out a non-conference opponent (like LSU). Hokies have a strong history of beating WVU (the team guaranteed to make it to the NC game five hours ago). I say let LSU and VT play next month for all the marbles.The fact Ohio State can utter the phrase, "National Championship Contenders," with a weak conference and a horrible non-conference schedule is a complete joke.How could the championship game take LSU with 2 losses and not take Oklahoma with 2 losses? OU beat the #1 team in the country (Missouri) TWICE, won the conference title and won games all season in blowouts while LSU squeaked by half their games. Sorry, but that doesn't add up for me. The Oklahoma team I saw on TV tonight would clobber LSU. Sorry, that's just how I see it. I don't understand the Tiger fans arguing otherwise.Now that Oregon's not healthy, I don't think anyone can seriously doubt that USC would destroy any team in the nation (including LSU, who for some reason nobody will admit has been severely overrated all season). If a two-loss school plays for the championship, it should be them.OSU is in the national title game and they willl smack down any other team in the top ten!
Here come the silver bullets.
P.S. quit crying and just win your games!Please excuse allan, its more important to be a hater than to know what you're talking about.Attention please! Georgia did not "lose" their division. They had the same record as LSU or UT.LSU PLAYED LIKE CRAP THE LAST 5 OR 6 GAMES. THEY HAD A CHANCE TO BE #1 TWO DIFFERNT TIMES AND COULD NOT HANG ON TO IT. GEORGIA IS ONE OF THE TWO BEST TEAMS AT THE END OF THE SEASON PERIOD!. SO WHAT THEY DID NOT GO TO THE SEC TITLE GAME, THEY LOST EARLY AND GOT HOT. BESIDES THE TWO BEST TEAMS IN THE SEC ARE GEORGIA AND FLORIDA. LSU PLAYS IN THE WEST WHICH IS WEAK. ASK TOMMY TUBERVILLE WHO HE THINKS IS BETTER LSU OR GEORGIA. GEORGIA DESERVES A SHOT. WHY IS OSU A SHOE IN FOR THE NATIONAL TITLE. THEIR SCHEDULE IS A JOKE. THEY LOOKED GREAT AGAINST FLORIDA LAST YEAR.By the way...why do we even need a championship?Alright G T,
granted, Ohio State doesn't have a conference championship to play, but leapfrogging a team that didn't lose is not the same as leapfrogging a team that didn't even play. Furthermore, it surely doesn't mean you can't leapfrog a team that didn't even earn the right to play in the conference championship (ahem...Georgia)Oh yes, let's put LSU in the title game. The only team I can recall that lost as #1 twice in the same season. Hey, maybe they can lose as #2 as well.
LSU - the biggest contributer to the #1/2 losers sect.I agree that les miles comment was STUPID but DUKESTER, seriously, have you just started watching college football. You are truely a moron who has no clue about college football. Give me a conference that could beat the SEC from the top 6 to 8 teams in each conference. By the way, Hawaii in the title game, that was a great comment. The STUPID police are revoking your blogging priviliges.Scott: I have serious doubts as to how USC would stack up against Stanford.Considering how Oklahoma got the opportunity to play in the BCS championship a few years back -- even after losing their final two games (including the Big 12 championship) -- how can Georgia reasonably be denied a shot at the title given their current BCS ranking? Doing otherwise will only confirm SEC fans' complaints regarding national bias against this perennially strong football conference. Respect for the game of NCAA Division I college football would dictate an annual playoff system, but the BCS dollar signs in member institution presidents' eyes overrides logic and reason. Before Ohio State gets yet another chance to claim legitimacy at #1, they should face-off against another SEC team and prove last year's humiliation was a fluke.Very good reasoning TK. LSU did have the tough schedule, won the SEC and lost no game in regulation. LSU should get a shot. Another thing to look at is some of the very valid distractions the players have had over the past couple weeks.It's not a curse Stewart. It's a half-baked, undisciplined, incomplete WVU football team finally getting what it deserves. Drop the mystical hocus-pocus in excusing your inability to understand college football. Both WVU and Mizzou losing are two highly rational events.As others have said
Number 1 lost
Number 2 lost
Number 3 goes to 1
Why not 4 to 2 ???
When UGA was voted lst week 4th everyone knew they weren't going to win the SEC but voters, coaches and computers all had UGA ahead of LSU and VT.
The vote should be simple
Ohio
GeorgiaJason,
Your confused. Those were not my words (reread my post).Here is a slightly different look at the situation.
Ohio State is in !!
Missouri and WV drop to 5 and 8 respectfully
LSU, and OU move up to 2 and 3.
Va Tech is 4
6. USC
7. Georgia
9. Kansas
10. FloridaI think the poll voters will vote LSU into the game unfortunately, I would be incredibly disappointed to see them given another chance at number 1 after failing twice with it so far. They seem to be a good team, but incredibly overhyped. Regardless, No team has any right to complain since none of them earned the right to play in the game by winning themselves, rather by the losses of everyone else.OSU’s next opponent? Not Georgia or Kansas. No team that can’t win their own conference should get to play for the NC. That leaves five conference champs each with 2 losses. West Virginia has gone the way of Oregon, so they’re out. LSU lost two in OT, but also won two by a whisker (some say luck). They could be 8-4 as easily as 12-0. USC, VT, and OU have similar issues. I have a hunch if each of these seven teams played the other six, they would all finish with a 3-3 record. But based on the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately idea, OU just trashed the #1 team in the country (for the second time). Although OU isn’t my team, they would get my vote if I had one.What makes the most sense?
* OSU vs. USC for the title - two teams who won their leagues, OSU with the best record and USC playing the best now. Both are more than deserving.
* Plus this leaves the Sugar to match up LSU and UGa since they never got to play in their screwed-up league schedule.
* The Fiesta can also do what one of the big league's couldn't and pit Kansas vs. Oklahoma.
* Pasadena gets its tradition with the Illini and Sun Devils, who will cherish the privilege of being there.
* And the Orange Bowl can do what should have been done awhile ago - merge the ACC and Big Least - with VaTech and WVU.The BCS always takes into account the season in its totality. That means that it has already taken into account VTs loss to LSU and STILL has VT ranked ahead of them. So how can VT win their conference championship and beat a #11 team while LSU wins by beating a #14 team and get leapfrogged by said team who has lost as recently as 7 days ago? Answer: It can't without some shady dealings.Hawaii will come back and beat UW because UW can't hold a lead. If the Huskies could hold a lead then they would have beaten Ohio State and the world would be even more confused right now.
Sure, Ohio St. beat UW, but the Huskies had the lead at halftime. The lead would have been even larger had the whistle not been blown on a OSU lateral that UW returned for a TD.
Imagine the following.
Illinois doesn't make the Rose Bowl. They don't deserve it anyway and hopefully the voters and Rose Bowl Commission agrees.
USC beats 1-loss Kansas for AP vote
LSU beats 1-loss OSU for BCS title
Sound familiar?
Another reason why we just need to somehow change the rules to get the LSU vs USC game that we all need.
As for Georgia, VTech, and Oklahoma- you just can't lose games as bad as you have.
Sure USC lost to Stanford, but if you watched that game you'd know it required a lot of fluke things. USC never played a game where it flat out got beat (they beat themselves).
LSU sure did struggle most of the times and deserved to lose 4-5 games, but they had the heart to pull most of those games out.WV has never walked the walk they have never talk the talk, who is pushing this team up the poles?Can you say Illinois-USC Rose Bowl? Makes me wish I still lived in SoCal. Go Illini! I-L-L-I-N-I!"I have serious doubts as to how USC would stack up against Stanford."
I retract my earlier misplaced compliment about rational analysis.The BCS always takes into account the season in its totality. That means that it has already taken into account VTs loss to LSU and STILL has VT ranked ahead of them. So how can VT win their conference championship and beat a #11 team while LSU wins by beating a #14 team and get leapfrogged by said team who has lost as recently as 7 days ago? Answer: It can't without some shady dealings.lsu#1
Sec fans said the same thing about their conference top to bottom last year but somehow only managed a 1-2 record head-to-head with the Big 10. The SEC is good but history should tell you not to be so sure of yourself!
Good luck!I agree with the post that argued logically for Oklahoma. If you argue about two loss teams, they deserve a shot based on how they are playing *today*. They didn't have their stud QB in their Texas tech loss and they blew away most all the teams. The poster arguing Oklahoma was right - LSU won several in squeakers.
USC can argue for the title game. Georgia - maybe. Hawaii? No. I watched Oklahoma rip Missouri tonight and they've done it two times this year. My vote goes to Oklahoma or USC.WV has never walked the walk they have not even talked the talk. Who is it that is pushing this team up the poles every year?To all the recent postings by USC in the National Championship fans...ummm...you can't lose to a FORTY POINT (40) underdog and seriously be considered for the NC. Also, before Dennis Dixon got hurt, USC wasn't even the best team in the Pac-10.The Atlanta Braves, the Buffalo Bills and lately the Ohio State Buckeyes.
Unless you're a fan of WHOEVER OSU's opponent is in the national championship game. Your Jan-7th TV watching just got screwed. Ohio State playing for the title, give me a freaking break!Seems to me that the OU win would at least give them the biggest jump in the BCS standings. But is it enough to jump into the 2 spot?"Why not 4 to 2 ???"
Because the BCS is not a linear ranking system. OSU moves up to #1 because they were solidly ensconced at #3.
Here's how the numbers look:
Mizzou: .978
WVU: .971
OSU: .919
Georgia: .827
Kansas: .792
VT: .781
LSU: .774
USC: .693
Ok, Mizzou and WVU were very close, but they also both lost, so they're out of there. OSU was .5 behind #2 but more importantly, they are .92 ahead of #4. That's why OSU is guaranteed to move up.
Now, Georgia in 4th is .35 ahead of Kansas, which is a lot closer than OSU was to WVU. They're .46 of Tech, and .53 ahead of LSU. And then there's USC way back (and OU off the chart, which is why neither will be in the NC).
So the gap from 3 to 4 is .92. But the gap from 4 to 7 is .53. See how much tighter that is?
Now, the gap from 4 to 5 is .35, which is actually not a bad gap. But its not insurmountable the way the computers and (especially) the humans work. While it may seem instinctive to think that Georgia should automatically move up to #2, the gap is close enough that it wouldn't take a huge number of people to change their mind to move up another team.
Also consider that LSU might have had some low human votes in there; punishment for losing. The win today might cause someone who had them ranked, say 8 last week to move them up to 3. That adds more to LSU's total than Georgia moving up on their ballot from 4 to 2. Because every position translates linearly into percentage points.
I hope that made sense.Why is OSU the logical choose? Last week everyone said their non conference scheudule was weak now it's good enough to play for the title. Time to have the BCS league Champs plus 2 at large in a playoff. If division 1 is the only football division without a playoff it's time for the BCS school presidents to pull their heads out of the sand or someplace else.yeah bgault,
you CAN construct sentences too! yay, good for you. All you've proved is what everyone knows about the SEC this season...the SEC was overrated and they all beat up on each other (this is coming from an LSU fan...ooooh scary, yeah I said it)
Let's follow your argument out - and leave the margin of victory out because that doesn't count for anything in any conference anymore.
LSU beat: South Carolina, Mississippi State, Florida, Auburn, Alabama, Ole Miss, Tennessee
LSU lost to: Kentucky and Arkansas
Mississippi State beat Kentucky and Alabama and Auburn
Kentucky lost to Tennessee but beat LSU
Auburn beat Florida and Arkansas
Georgia beat Florida but lost to Tennessee and South Carolina
South Carolina and Alabama lost their last 4 straight games
Arkansas beat LSU, but lost to Tennessee, Auburn, Alabama, and Kentucky.
YOUR ARGUMENT MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE.helzapoppin:
I was joking.
But in that joke, there was some truth. Namely Stanford beating USC.Im a gator and sec fan first off. But I'd like to say that georgia may be on a roll but they couldn't even get into their conference championship game.(ha ha) Also VT do you remeber what happened when you played a healthy tiger team? It will be interesting to see a healthy tiger team play whoever in the N.C. game
I'll sit and wait for next year with T-bow and the gators.Why is OSU the logical choose? Last week everyone said their non conference scheudule was weak now it's good enough to play for the title. Time to have the BCS league Champs plus 2 at large in a playoff. If division 1 is the only football division without a playoff it's time for the BCS school presidents to pull their heads out of the sand or someplace else.Dink, I appreciate the response and I am not trying to come off like that earlier but it seems funny that almost ALL analyst and anyone non biasd to any conference would say the SEC is toughest. But I will say the top 2 or 3 in the PAC 10 would give us a run, but honestly, The BIG 10 has no shot this year, especially if you match up OSU and anyone from the SEC. I just think the Big 10 is struggling this year.So Stewart can't even mention a Big-12 game when it involves #1 getting knocked off!
Of course, he voted Mizzou #1 last week because that was THE FIRST AND ONLY BIG-12 GAME HE SAW ALL YEAR!!!
Remind us, Stewart - how did you forecasst the Big-12 championship game? Uh - Mizzou to win, right?
The real people I feel sorry for are the true "Tattered Souls" in this crowd - those poor folks who spent money on Mandel's book.
Mandel doesn't have a clue..... He's certifiably discredited, and unmasked as a loser.This post has been removed by the author.I see a lot of anti-Ohio State comments coming from fans of Oklahoma and USC, who coincidentally were the losers of the three national championship games prior to the Buckeyes. Hypocrites much? The idea that Ohio State shouldn't go because they lost once before would disqualify a whole lot of teams.Anyone that justifies LSU moving ahead of Va Tech because they beat them earlier in the season is an idiot. The Va Tech team that lost that game is obviously not the same team that kicked BC's ass today. Go Hokies!Ohio State has no chance to beat LSU just like Appalachian State had no chance of beating Michigan, Stanford had no chance of beating USC, Pitt had no chance of beating West Virginia, Kentucky had no chance of beating LSU..
If anyone actually says that a team in Division I-A (or, hey, I-AA) football has "no chance" to win against another team, you have not been watching college football this season.
Anyone can beat anyone any week. Ohio State lost by 7 points to the second best team in its conference, a team that matched up well against the Buckeyes. And that's the only time they lost - and in fact, the only time they even came close to losing. I think this qualifies them for the championship game.
LSU, despite two losses, is clearly the class of the most competitive conference in the country (I don't know if a conference can really be the "best" - teams play games not conferences) and deserves the second spot. USC lost to a terrible Stanford team, Virginia tech lost by 40+ to LSU, LSU won the conference that Georgia did not win its division in, Oklahoma lost to mediocre Texas Tech and Colorado teams, Kansas did not win its division (and does anyone think they would have beaten Oklahoma if they were in Missouri's place)? In summary, LSU undoubtedly deserves the second national title place.
And I have no doubt LSU will be favored to win that game. And maybe they will. Or maybe Ohio State will win in triple overtime and cap their most unlikely season ever. If you open your mouth to say it can't happen, prepare to insert foot.
Buckeyes, baby.sct8989:
C-USA has 12 teams. The reason the ACC raided the Big East was to get to 12 teams so they could have a championship.
That said, if the Big Ten added a 12th team, I doubt they'd add a championship game. They're too traditional.great, now we get to watch ohio state get blown out in another snoozer championship game.Conference USA
East
UCF 7-1 9-3
East Carolina 6-2 7-5
Memphis 6-2 7-5
Southern Miss 5-3 7-5
Marshall 3-5 3-9
UAB 1-7 2-10
West
Tulsa 6-2 9-3
Houston 6-2 8-4
Tulane 3-5 4-8
Rice 3-5 3-9
UTEP 2-6 4-8
Southern Methodist 0-8 1-11
this is to show the gentleman 5 spots up that there is 12 teams in the CUSAHey Brian, way to throw VT in there. They are not good at all, no matter the record. ACC is WEAK. Let the big boyz talk and you go drink your juice box. VT is a pretender!!!!!great, now we get to watch ohio state get blown out in another snoozer championship game.Look at the current BCS rankings, in order: Missouri, West Virginia, Ohio State, Georgia, Kansas, Va Tech, LSU, USC, Oklahoma. Missouri and West Virginia will definitely fall below the top 2 in the rankings. Georgia and Kansas did not play, meaning they could "fall" relative to the teams that did play and win--no telling how much. Oklahoma beat #1 Missouri so they should move up the most. LSU beat #14 Tennessee, and Va Tech beat #11 Boston College, so both should move up, though Va Tech should move up somewhat more than LSU. Neither Georgia nor Kansas won their conference or division crown, so as much as I like Georgia, I would never put them high enough to play in a national championship; same with Kansas. Of the teams I consider "eligible" (due to winning their conference), the BCS numbers--in order--should be this: Ohio State, Va Tech, LSU, Oklahoma, USC. Honestly, I'd support any 2 of these 5 teams being there, and only any 2 of these 5 teams. Go Dawgs! ...next year. This year, Ohio State and Va Tech have the highest numbers.Brian,
I live in North Carolina (i've only lived here for 2 years now) and I'm laughing my butt off that you're bragging about the strength of the ACC!!!!....when you claim that VT's victory over BC was some dominant powerhouse match-up. ACC should just stick with basketball!!! haha, I'm still laughing.Hey, I can play the tortured "what if" game too. . .
USC vs Stanford:
• Booty playing with a broken finger on his throwing hand.
• Ridiculous 40 pt spread - anyone who has ever followed USC football knows that you always take the under because USC rarely runs up scores like that - and conference wins in the Pac-10 are NEVER a given. Every game is a rivalry game.
• Lost by only 1 point on a blown final drive
• Stanford did actually beat other teams this year too, even against Cal
• Was not the "worst upset ever" despite Mandel's and other's hysterical melodramatic ravings.
USC vs. Oregon
• Playing with a backup QB against a fully-loaded Oregon team with Dixon at the helm.
• STILL hung tough through most of the game and very well could have won except for some costly mistakes on a very small fraction of plays.
Do I think USC should be in the NC game? Actually no, as much as I wish they were. If it isn't OSU vs UGA, the BCS will discredit itself even further.This post has been removed by the author.here we go again the east is the least sorry wv, mizz are not #1 teams and shouldn't of been just like usf was #2 some time this season come on what a joke ..The Ohio St should moved up to #1 when lsu lost to arkansas..my bowl
The Ohio St vs geo...NC
Usc vs Lsu or Ill...rose'
Ill or Lsu vs kansas.sugar
wv vs vt...........Orange
okl vs asu.........Fiesta
mizz vs Florida.....cotton
its all good but a playoff system is a must...
we got 37 days to the NC.. to long to wait playoff would make it better in between this games jan 7 who knows what will happen by then!!!
Go Bucks!!!! you guys are #1 now...Actually, based on the BCS numbers as they are right now, I could see VT finishing 3rd in the standings (they'll move up in the computer rankings more than LSU). The only way it won't happen is if there's a concerted effort by the hu-mans to put LSU in the NC game.Hey Brian, anyone who thinks their team is better than another team who beat them 48-7 is an idiot. No, wait ... a moran.This post has been removed by the author.I have no dog in this hunt. I had to come here because I remembered Mandel picking Missouri to win tonight. I thought this morning that was ridiculous considering OU had already beaten them once this season. Oh, but Missouri has improved so much! Well then, I guess Oklahoma has too. I've watched college football all year and my choice for the title game would be Ohio State and Oklahoma. The Sooners lost to Texas Tech without their quarterback. Had they won that game, this wouldn't even be an issue. they showed again tonight they are one of the 2 best teams in the country. This is a crazy season though, so really -- who knows?senior pga,
do you have any clue as to the structure of the bcs games? you obviously don't if you say Illinois or LSU vs. "x" team. The SEC champion (by the structure of the bcs) has an automatic spot in the sugar bowl. geez."anyone who thinks their team is better than another team who beat them 48-7 is an idiot. No, wait ... a moran."
Nice to see you agree that Cal (who lost to Stanford today) is still much better than Tennessee (who played in the SEC conference championship game).All of these comments about how Georgia or Virginia Tech are so much better now, that they had to play a lot of freshman or had injuries or whatever - crappy argument. Lose the playoff mentality - the reason college football is infinitely more compelling than the NFL is because games matter throughout the season. Next year, get things sorted out at the beginning.
And for anyone saying USC is the team we want - did you watch the UCLA game today. The Trojans were complete crap.How about the teams that beat the last two #1's play for the championship?
Arkansas vs Oklahoma!
Did Ohio St. or USC beat a #1 team?
I would prefer to watch Hawaii and Kansas play for it all instead of Ohio St.There is a big difference between who should play and who will play.
This is the BCS matchups:
NCG: OSU vs. Georgia
Rose: USC vs. Illinois
Orange: VA Tech vs. WVU
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs. ASU
Sugar: LSU vs. Kansas
If Hawaii comes back, boot ASU, move Kansas to Fiesta, add Hawaii to Sugar.
There is only one other possibility, and that is if Missouri stays in the top 4, and then the Big-12 gets 3 teams (since that disqualifier only kicks in on at-larges, not automatics). Then, if Hawaii loses, boot ASU, move Kansas to Fiesta, put Missouri in Sugar. If Hawaii wins, the Rose loses Illinois and takes Missouri, Kansas still to Fiesta, Hawaii still to Sugar.lsu#1,
Thanks for the respectful reply and I understand your position. However, my point was that this was the same exact position people and analysts were taking last year and look what happened. Secondly, I wasn't saying the Big 10 is the conference to prove SEC people wrong, but you never know unless head-to-head takes place. Thirdly, I don't believe the analyst are anymore right about things this year than someone pulling team names out of a hat. They have been ranking teams more on "talent and potential" as opposed to results (performance and execution) on the field.
It shall be an exciting bowl season and CFB fans everywhere should appreciate every team playing no matter the results or which bowl is being played. We are talking about hard working college student athletes here.Please will people leave Kansas out of this list of potential NCS teams. They've beaten ONE team with a winning record ALL season...ONE (Texas A&M). They LOST to the only ranked team that they played (Missouri who just got stomped by OU). It's just ridiculous that they're ranked ahead of VT, LSU, USC and OU in the BCS. There is no way in heck they should be allowed to play in the NCS.Hawaii is down by seven now....I hope they win so that Illinois will play my gators in the Citrus Bowl..sorry Capital One bowl."There is only one other possibility, and that is if Missouri stays in the top 4, and then the Big-12 gets 3 teams (since that disqualifier only kicks in on at-larges, not automatics). "
Not true. Each conference can only have 2 teams, period. The "if you're in the top 4" requirement has the exception if there are two other teams that get in before you (via conference championship or a higher BCS ranking, so if one team is #3 and the other is #4 and neither is the champion, then #3 goes to the BCS).For those who have been unable to process this: Georgia did win their division. They did not play in the SEC championship game because they lost a "tie-breaker" -- head-to-head with Tennessee. Georgia, Tennessee, and LSU all finished with 6-2 conference records. If Florida had lost one less conference game, they would have gone to the championship game, because they had a better record against Eastern Division teams than either Georgia or Tennessee. It's the second tie-breaker after head-to-head. If the tie-breaker had been highest ranked team or overall record, Georgia would have made it to Atlanta. If the SEC did not have a conference championship like the Big Ten, Georgia would be recognized as SEC co-champions. Georgia was ranked 4th in the BCS before today. The top two teams lost. Georgia should move up two spots. To deny them that opportunity because of how the SEC chooses to do its tie-breakers would be a gross miscarriage of justice.LETS NOT TALK ABOUT KANSAS OR HAWAII UNLESS WE ARE TALKING BASKETBALL AND VACATIONAt the end of the day, you know what gives me warm fuzzies?
Thanks to Stewart Mandel, I haven't wasted money on a Sports Illustrated subscription!flnative said - "I'll sit and wait for next year with T-bow and the gators."
(shudder) They scare the beejesus out of this old Tiger fan."Hawaii is down by seven now....I hope they win so that Illinois will play my gators in the Citrus Bowl..sorry Capital One bowl."
Hawaii winning is more likely to keep Kansas out than Illinois.Forget Ohio State. I say put LSU #1 and Georgia #2 and have the game we all wanted to see today.Dink, I agree with that completely. I dont like pounding conferences with words and I dont like pounding my chest about the SEC. Its just a fan thing and we all get caught up in the emotion. I hope the two teams in the title game will come to play and they dont let in two teams who dont deserve to be there.Disclaimer: I am an OSU fan, a Navy fan, and an ND hater. (Ahhh, nice to have that streak finally broken...) Now that that is out of the way: NOBODY deserves to play in the NC game... PERIOD. They should just cancel it this year... but they won't, and that is a fact. In one day it will also be a fact that OSU will play in the title game. Yes, I know they don't belong, but as we remember from the beginning of my post, nobody belongs. No matter how it turns out, this game will prove nothing, because the fans of all the teams left out won't allow it to. If OSU gets beat, it will be because they are weak and should not have been in the game in the first place, right? So all of the fans whose teams were left out of the game will cry about how their team would have beat OSU's opponent, had they only been allowed to play for the NC. This will especially be true if OSU does not lose "convincingly" enough, say, by more than 100 points, their players lying with bleeding eardrums on the field thanks to the shock waves generated by the excessive speed of their opponent, whoever it may be. Hey, even if OSU DOES manage to lose by over 100 points, there are some people out there (honestly, look at some of these posts and tell me I'm wrong) who will swear their team could have beaten OSU by 200, and therefore, OSU's opponent by at least 100 (nevermind that transitivity doesn't hold in college football scores... I'm trying to make a point, and there are plenty of posers out there who think it DOES hold, so let's just roll with it)... so an OSU loss--whether or not it is a blowout of historic proportions--isn't going to settle anything. An OSU win would merely expose the other team as an imposter, because since OSU doesn't belong in the title game (remember the first part of the post... I know this will be trying some attention spans out there) then how the heck could a team that lost to them have possibly belonged in the title game? Surely any of the (insert your favorite number less than or equal to 117 here) other "contending" teams out there would have had no trouble beating OSU... so OSU won't be a legitimate national champ, since they played a team who should never have been in the championship game (as evidenced by the fact that they lost to OSU). Since this is a total Catch-22, the only way to remedy this situation is to drink enough during the bowl games that even ND cheerleaders look good, thereby assuring yourself a blackout and forgetting the bowls altogether this year, or putting together a "greatest hits" of past USC song girl and SEC cheerleader footage and watching that instead (no drinking required.)Why would that keep Kansas out...They are ranked much higher with one loss. Right now Illinios is even eligble for an at large correct? wouldn't they have to expand the field to get them in?If Kansas and Hawaii are to be left out, then Ohio St. needs to be left out also.
Why does Ohio St. need to be left out? They will not win the championship game. thats why.lisa is correct about playoffs. The whole season should count and why should a team that is hot at the end of the season be rewarded over another team who performed consistently over the course of many weeks?
Not equitable.Very good point kumodog. No way can Kansas be on the list. Scratch them right now. Ohio State, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma, LSU or USC are, to me, the only logical five teams to be in contention for the NCG.Lou Holtz just said he and the 2 bobbleheads on either side of him watch every college game on tv every week and are the most qualified in the country to pick the NC matchup. There, guys, problem solved. HAHAHAHA. He needs to wern how to tawk wifoup a wisp ferft.When South Florida defeated West Virginia they jumped from #18 to #6. Given that history, why shouldn't Oklahoma jump from #9 to #2?7 Teams have chance? You're kidding, right?
Hawaii? Get real.
VT? Fuggedaboutit. They lost to someone ranked ahead of 'em.
Georgia? No conference title no playee... Sorry.
Kansas? Bah
USC? Puhleeeeze...
Oklahoma won't jump over LSU.
So there you have it folks...
LSU vs Ohio State for all the marbles.
With a month to heal thier injuries I have it.
LSU 24 OSU 17 in a thriller.Is it Georgia's fault that Florida lost too many SEC games? If Florida had lost 1 fewer SEC game, that would have created a 3 way tie, and I believe the highest BCS ranking, which would be Georgia, would have gone to the SEC title game. Given that LSU barely beat an offensively inept Tennessee team, with the winning touchdown donated to LSU, I believe Georgia would have beaten them. Ohio State vs Georgia is a dream matchup for me, raised in Ohio and living in Atlanta for 10 years. I went to college in Pittsburgh, so that victory was gravy!"Why would that keep Kansas out...They are ranked much higher with one loss. Right now Illinios is even eligble for an at large correct? wouldn't they have to expand the field to get them in?"
Illinois just needs to move up into the top 14 ... they're currently at 15, Tennessee above them lost today, and no one immediately behind them won well enough to jump them. They should be at least 14 when the new standings come out.
If Kansas is not in the top 4 of the BCS standings, no one is under obligation to take them.
Rose Bowl wants a Pac-10 vs Big Ten matchup. As long as it's viable under BCS rules, they'll grab it. And it looks like it will be viable."To deny them that opportunity because of how the SEC chooses to do its tie-breakers would be a gross miscarriage of justice."
Is it really a miscarriage of justice? I hope you never have to look at a loved one day like people in Darfur or other 3rd world countries do, and see them dying in your arms at the hands of oppressors. I hope your children never die of aids in your arms. You really want to talk about justice? You really want to put something as petty as football in that same category. You, whoever you are, should consider the weight you put on this "thing" called football.How about an 8 team playoff? The champions of the 6 major BCS conferences gain entry if they are ranked in the top 12. The other spots are filled by at-large teams by ranking, no matter their conference.
First round games (4) are mid-December after most schools have final exams and are played at the 4 major bowl locations (according to seeding and preference to conference affiliation history to the bowls) with each location getting 1 first round game.
Semifinal games (2) are played on January 1rst at the higher seeded school's bowl affiliated location. If 2 highest ranked teams remaining belong to same location then the higher ranked team gets it. Not sure how the other location would then be determined, but should be neutral.
Title game is played the 2nd Friday night after Jan. 1rst at the higher seeds affiliated bowl location. Friday would draw good ratings without conflicting with NFL.
Result:
We get a true CHAMP!
Bowls and Conference still make $$$
Games are still played in warm weather climates
Extra games do not conflict with classes (with the exception of the title game), but the first week or so of classes is not as important.Chris,
You must also find the dawgs argument that they belong in the N.C. funny."When South Florida defeated West Virginia they jumped from #18 to #6. Given that history, why shouldn't Oklahoma jump from #9 to #2?"
Too many voters have drunk the SEC kool-aid. And their SOS is still the worst among USC, LSU, Georgia, and Virginia Tech.Thanks for that explanation...looks like Michigan vs FL for the Citus Bowl then?jason i understand that but that would be of the best match ups with out a playoff, don't you think
OSU>>Georgia
USC>>LSU...that would be the best othere than okl being left out...The problem with OSU is not that they are definitely overrated or definitely destined to lose. The problem is they are basically an unknown quantity. Due to a weak conference and an unrevealing ooc schedule (some creampuffs, yes, but also some teams that could reasonably have been expected to be competitive when they were scheduled), it simply isn't clear whether they are as good as their record or not. I just think that, ideally, the NC game is not the proper place to find out. That said, I still think they have the right to be there - this from a USC fan who really would rather have played them in the Rose Bowl.THANK YOU WEST VIRGINIA & MISSOURI. I GOT WHAT I WANTED FOR XMAS! GO BUCKS!
PJ, suck it up.....your just like all the other Buckeye haters! No matter what we do, who we play or win by whatever points we chalk up, no one thinks we deserve being #1. Remember that 14 - 0 national championship season? Even then no one thought we deserved it---heck, we even ended up in 2nd place @ the beginning of the next season. We played our schedules just like everyone else. We are still 11 & 1 this go 'round and all the other #1 & #2 teams fell. No one deserves to be #1 this year. ANYONE who made it to #1 & #2 was there by default this year. Hawaii is turning out to be the better team this year as they are the only remaining undefeated team right now (I think so anyway!) They are down by 7 as I write.
So don't be hater! Place your bets on the bowl games. It's the year of the underdog so bet carefully! lolUM vs Florida is likely, but not a given.Mr. Mandel:
With OSU in the title game, I don't understand your assumption that Illinois goes to the Rose Bowl by moving up to #14 or better. If they did, it could leave Kansas without a BCS game. But Kansas was BCS #5, and should move up to #4. Wouldn't that give KU an automatic berth? Where would they play if not the Rose Bowl?barbrady...lol. I got tired while reading that post, I can only speculate (much like saying by dad can beat up your dad because.......) how you feel after writing it!With a month to heal thier injuries I have it. LSU 24 OSU 17 in a thriller.
Jason, You could be right. With one change: LSU 24 OSU 17 in triple OT. Isn't that the only way LSU would win a big game?
Seriously, LSU just isn't playing like a championship contender right now. I made a list above and included them in the 5, but I'm unsure really between LSU and Georgia. Besides one of those two, I still say Ohio State, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma and USC are the only real contenders with an argument for the big game."But Kansas was BCS #5, and should move up to #4. Wouldn't that give KU an automatic berth? Where would they play if not the Rose Bowl?"
Fiesta.
Rose gets an at-large pick first (maybe second, if LSU goes to the NC). Since the Fiesta and Sugar would still have an at-large left (even if LSU goes to the NC, Sugar Bowl has the last at-large pick because they have the NC game), Rose is not under obligation to take Kansas or Hawaii. Fiesta would have to choose one, and would probably take Kansas, then the Sugar would be left with Hawaii.Dink-- glad you enjoyed. I about fell asleep myself typing it!Clarification:
Rose Bowl gets an at-large ahead of Fiesta and Sugar because OSU is going to the NC. Those substitutions take place first, then the at-larges are picked. So it would go:
Orange: WVU vs VT (set at the start via affiliation)
Rose: USC vs ?
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs ?
Sugar: LSU/Georgia vs ?
(I'm presuming that if LSU goes to the NC, Sugar would gladly take Georgia as their replacement)
So the Rose takes Illinois, Fiesta chooses between Kansas (if they finish top 4) and Hawaii, and Sugar is stuck with the remainder.
If Kansas doesn't finish top 4, then Fiesta can choose who they want, and would probably grab Arizona State.Well, Let's go Bows and Go BUCKS. One is my school and the other is the school of my geography. If the Bows win, then they deservedly deserve as good a bowl as they can get. OSU is just as deservedly getting the best they can get with an NCG. Every sport has those who win against "weak" teams, choke against "weak" teams, win and/or lose against a "good" team. If you win when you are supposed to then you have as good a shot as anyone at being in the championship game. Everyone starts at 0-0, if they don't win, they don't deserve anything and won't get much or as much as those who do. You win more than you lose, then you have a good shot at getting a bowl game.
Poor sportsmanship is what gets exhibited by bloggers who don't know how to accept facts of life and nature. Nothing is logical when it comes to humanity and sports. A winless professional football team is seemingly illogical, but it happens. Coaches always told us when we were kids that you can win or lose on any given day against any given team. It always happens, sometimes it happens to your team, but it always happens and more so in the college game than in the pro game. I will take the college game because it "life" in a microcosm. ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE..Don't you have to be in the top 12 to get an at large berth? Isn't Hawaii a lock if they win tonight? I know Wisconsin already accepted the outback bowl...maybe they should re-consider since the Capital One is considered "better".flnative wrote - "Chris,
You must also find the dawgs argument that they belong in the N.C. funny."
No. I think they have a good argument, too. I just wish it would have been LSU -Georgia in the championship game to clear up any uncertainties.
GO SEC!There is simply no reasonable way USC or Oklahoma - no matter how good they might look right now - could advance in the rankings enough to reach #2 without some serious, highly questionable, and dangerous tinkering in the human polls. They may very well be the best opponents for the NC game, but that's just not how the BCS works.So far I agree most with Lisa and Uncle Bub.
There is no need for a playoff system, especially since its just a way to force unpaid, STUDENT athletes to play more games so you can make money off of them. That's BS. Go back to the old system and just let it be a mystery (since that's what its going to be this year anyways).
As for the guy who ripped on Illinois for being held to 6 points by Iowa: Iowa's defense was never the problem. Iowa, in fact, has a great defense. They have no offense. Considering how much time that defense spent on the field this year, its amazing Iowa's fate didn't look worse than it ended up.
Finally, Ohio State won their conference with only one loss. What other team can say that? As has been mentioned before, OSU's non-conference schedule has, in recent past, included Texas and will soon include USC. Its not entirely their fault they had an easy go this season. Furthermore, everyone who's so sure OSU would lose to LSU, USC, UGa, Florida, Mizzouh, etc. etc.? You obviously haven't been watching this season at all...
Overall, I love this season's uncertainty. I love the insanity, the fact that any team this year looks like it could beat anyone else on the right day. Who cares if there's no closure? Grow up people, not everything gets wrapped up in a neat little package in real life.
Ahem, Big Ten!!!Get that pinhead off of ESPN college football final. The bald squinty-eyed guy with my 2nd grade teacher's glasses on who was calling out to Tressel to call-in and make his case.....Blahahaha! Tressel is one of the most classiest coaches in college football and wouldn't stoop as low as Meyer and Miles to beg for NC game inclusion, nor does he have to.
Other's should learn from Tressel's example."Don't you have to be in the top 12 to get an at large berth? Isn't Hawaii a lock if they win tonight? I know Wisconsin already accepted the outback bowl...maybe they should re-consider since the Capital One is considered "better"."
Top 14 to get an at-large berth. If you are a non-BCS conference team and finish in the top 12*, you get an automatic berth (limited to the highest ranked non-BCS team)
*Or finish ahead of a conference champion, which will not happen this year.
Capitol One will definitely take UM over UW; UM travels way better and a UM-Florida matchup would be worth watching.Isn't it ironic that we are about to witness an SEC team "back" into the BCS national title game against OSU?It does not matter, all of you are complaining that UGA didnt win their division... there is no rule that says you must win your division to play in the national championship. therefore there is no reason this week should be different then any other week. if UGA gets jumped because they were idle, thats one thing, but the two best teams that are also ranked high enough should go. Sure LSU won the SEC, but they lost last week, WE should want the TWO best teams to play each other, hats all that mattersChrTh-
Interesting. You think the Rose Bowl screws a Pac-10 team (ASU) out of a BCS game (Fiesta) by taking Illinois?trojansrule
ironic how...what is your point?"ChrTh-
Interesting. You think the Rose Bowl screws a Pac-10 team (ASU) out of a BCS game (Fiesta) by taking Illinois?"
Haven't considered it from that perspective. However, it's not just the Rose Bowl being traditional, it's about them maintaining their relationship with the Big 10 and Pac 10 equally.
To put it a different way, there's no guarantee the Fiesta would take ASU, even though I think it's likely. So, do they take Illinois and guarantee one of their partners has two teams in the BCS, or do they take, say, Georgia and hope the Fiesta will take ASU? I'd go with the former.
I also don't think Kansas will finish top 4 in the BCS, thus rendering it moot. They'll lose ground in the computers due to Missouri losing, so VT should leapfrog them in the computers. And I suspect many human voters are going to put LSU and VT ahead of them."ChrTh-
Interesting. You think the Rose Bowl screws a Pac-10 team (ASU) out of a BCS game (Fiesta) by taking Illinois?"
Yeah that would basically exactly what they are doing...otherwise they might be screwing Illinois out of one right? So I would think they would want to keep their tradition, even though USC will Kill Illinois.trojansrule - I think the word you were searching for was 'unfortunate'.
Ironic, not so much.Don't forget that if Hawaii loses tonight, the way things stand, Clemson could end up in the BCS top 14, qualifying them for a BCS bid.
If the Rose Bowl picks Illinois, as I assume they will, and the Fiesta goes with Kansas vs. Oklahoma, the Sugar could pick Clemson over Arizona StateI guess if Hawaii loses then all those teams get their at large berths.Also, if it's Ohio State vs. LSU in the title, the way the BCS rules are written, the Rose Bowl needs permission from the Sugar Bowl to choose Georgia. Will the Sugar Bowl really give Georgia up?
And why would the Rose bypass a Big Ten/Pac Ten matchup if they can take it?Anybody watch that running back from UCF today. That guy looks like a beast!Because the human voters realize the computers don't take into account margin of victory and momentum, many voters will likely try to counteract the computers and vote for what they think is fair right now.
Keep in mind though that these are the same voters that led to:
Cal ranked #2
South Florida ranked high
Kentucky and South Carolina in the top 10 during the same week
and some of the voters even gave some votes one week to Appalachian State (the same team that edged by Eastern Washington today 38-35).
In other words... both rankings are seriously flawed and we need a playoff of no more than 8 teams. Arguing that this would exploit the players for $$$ don't get the fact that the players want this. The players of all the other sports and divisions don't exactly protest their "exploitation".Wouldn't it be funny if the Fiesta defied expectations and took Hawaii (presuming they complete this comeback) to play Oklahoma? OU would be so pissed.Goodnight CFB fans!Stewart's heart favorite Buckeyes are there. I think LSU will leapfrog Georgia. So it's either LSU or Oklahoma, and I think LSU has a better resume.
OSU vs. LSU!!!
Buckeyes will get another chance to answer allegations like 0-8, too slow, we are faster in the south, OSU inferior to any SEC team, ... etc etc.What a wild and crazy season, and I loved every minute of it. I think OSU will play VT or LSU in title game, and I can live with that. But I think the two best teams I've seen this year are USC and OU. And I think a team should always have to win its conference to play in BCS.Congrats to Pitt. Back in the 80s, Pitt was the team and I got a chance to visit my cousins at WVU when they upset Pitt. What a celebration. It meant (and still means) as much to Pitt and WVU as does the OSU and MU games to their fans.
OSU vs LSU would have been a better match-up than OSU vs WVU, in my estimation. However, that will not happen and it will be an entertaining game for me and OSU fans for the BUCKS to play UGA or anyone else. I know nothing of UGA this year and don't know what they can bring to bear on the field. The make-up of DI football is all about fans. Would OSU bring 2 - 8 million people in their fan base. Not everyone in Ohio is a Buckeye fan, but fans are in the majority, and there are thousands and millions elsewhere in the country. That is a whole lot of advertising money that gets generated and any bowl would love to have Buckeye fans, or most fans out of the Midwest, South, or East.
BCS rankings mirror the play of teams every week. I am thinking that this year has been more like every fan should expect with rankings. If you win, you will will continue to move up, If you loose, then you will move down. If others loose, then they will move down. Every week provides new rankings, which proponents say is parity.
I like the game, love the blogging and the fans...Aloha..."Wouldn't it be funny if the Fiesta defied expectations and took Hawaii (presuming they complete this comeback) to play Oklahoma? OU would be so pissed."
You're right they would be pissed. Two WAC teams in two years, especially if they lost.
All I know is that The Gators open the season with the Rainbow Warriors at home next year, and I would rather not play them if I had to.I admit that I'm new to blogging and am having problems with the post key. Perhaps I'm ignorant or slow but I'm just not ready to buy into the SEC dominance yet. I'm sorry, other than some displays of brilliance by Tim Tebow and the Gators, the SEC doesn't look any different to me that the Big 10, Big 12, Pac-10, etc. All play different brands of football but...as I said, to me this year the SEC is ho-hum.Ugh, 2am and I'm on baby monitor duty. Hopefully he'll sleep in tomorrow or I'm in trouble.
Later y'all.
PS: My prediction still stands at:
NC: OSU vs Georgia
Orange: WVU vs VT
Rose: USC vs Illinois
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs Arizona State
Sugar: LSU vs Hawaii or Kansashere's how it'll go down:
1. AP tomorrow has Ohio State #1, LSU #2.
2. BCS tomorrow has Ohio State #1, Georgia #2.
3. Georgia beats Ohio State in a relatively close game for the BCS title.
4. A week earlier, LSU massacres Hawaii in the Sugar Bowl.
Thus, this time LSU is the AP champion but not the BCS champion. Leaving them flummoxed, given 2003, as to whether they should be arguing that "The BCS is the real title!" or "The AP is the real title!"As a Buckeye fan I want us to play LSU. I think last year's NC result was a fluke and I think that they will prove that. No matter the result, this years team has had a great year and if they lose, that will be only their second loss. That will lower them to being even in losses to LSU. If that happens the Luckeyes, as you guys call them, will be 24-3 with two trips to the national championship over the last two years. WOW! Somebody pinch me and tell me I'm not dreamin' because thats a pretty dang good run for any team.
Go Bucks!"I admit that I'm new to blogging and am having problems with the post key. Perhaps I'm ignorant or slow but I'm just not ready to buy into the SEC dominance yet. I'm sorry, other than some displays of brilliance by Tim Tebow and the Gators, the SEC doesn't look any different to me that the Big 10, Big 12, Pac-10, etc. All play different brands of football but...as I said, to me this year the SEC is ho-hum."
You definitely have a point but the conference does have three teams in the top ten as does the Big 12. But do you really think that Kansas and Mizzou can run with GA, FL, and LSU? I don't. The sooners yes.
The other conferences aren't represented very well in the top 14 from the perspective of number of teams. In fact they changed the rules to expand the selection field cause they didn't think they could find 4 at large teams without having three from one conference.Why in the world are people trying to make a case for LSU?!? they've lost two games since UGA last lost, including one to an unranked team at home in the last week of the regular season. Before the title game, LSU, UGA, and Tennessee had the same SEC conference record. UGA hasn't lost since October 6th. People shouldn't really get over the whole "didn't win their division" excuse.chrth-
Enjoy it, dude, because before you know it that baby will be graduating from high school! At least you have your priorities straight!
I would also like to echo the kudos to Pitt for a most impossible win. What a masterpiece to make an unbeatable juggernaut (according to ESPN) look very, very, very average. Ohio State, LSU, USC, or Oklahoma would have MASSACRED WVU in the title game.As for who I think will be in the title game with OSU...I think it will be Georgia. They were ranked #4 for a reason.
If people didn't want a team who didn't even win their division to play in the title game, they should have thought of that before voting Georgia 4 and Kansas 5.
I just think Virginia Tech, LSU, USC, and Oklahoma have too much ground to make up, and an idle Kansas wont jump an idle Georgia.LSU? Forget about it. They lost to unranked teams. I'm a VT fan but I think that Georgia has a better chance for the NC than LSUBig commissioners want money? Ok, let them think on this. Conf championship games require a 13th game, plus a bowl game makes 14. Eliminate the redundant (as proved by Big 12 OU v MO) conf champ games and replace with this.
Seed only the top 8 conf champs 1 through 8 (must be in top 25 to qualify otherwise more "at large" teams get in). This would usually be 6 BCS conference champs, plus whichever 2 lower conferences were hot that season.
Then seed top 4 highest ranked teams as "at large" for slots 9 to 12 (no more than 1 "at large" team per conference).
Seeds 5 to 8 get homefield for 13th elimination game vs seeds 9 to 12. Next, seeds 1 to 4 get homefield game against the winners of round 1. That's a 14 game season and we're down to just 4 teams. 1 plays 4 and 2 plays 3 in the top two (rotating or regionally tied-in) BCS bowls around New Years Day (everyone else just goes bowling as usual). Then we have a "+1" Natl Champ game a week or two later for all the marbles.
Take a look at how this season and previous seasons would look using this system. Pretty compelling matchups, opportunities for smaller conferences and a conclusive #1 would result even in wild seasons like this year.
Only 8 teams would end up playing more than usual 14 games. Only the top 2 teams would end up with 16 games. Key is to get rid of the redundant conf champ games.
8 teams is too few. 16 is too many. 12 is just right. Let's start screaming for a 12 team post season. Don't call it a playoff. Call it a Bowl Qualification Series or something. It's not THAT much different from what we have now, but it is FAR BETTER and would make TONS OF MONEY for those involved even after giving up the conf champ games.A wild and crazy season, and I loved every minute of it. I think OSU and VT or LSU will play for title, and I can live with that. But I think the two best teams I've seen all year are USC and OU. I think winning your conference should be mandatory to play in championship.I don't want to give up my SEC championship game....How would we ever know who won the conference since we wouldn't be able to play all the teams. I mean it would be like the Big 10....Terrible. I wouldn't mind 8 team playoff though. a complaining team at number nine is better than one with a legit argument at 3.What a joke. OSU backs in. The Big 10 was such a joke this year that the two teams at the top both lost in the second to last week of the season. UGA - USC should be the title gameWhat is getting lost is that Missouri gets screwed out of a BCS game. They do deserve it, but Kansas will likely get it.
Both OSU and KAN had weak conference and OoC schedules (remember that KAN did not play Texas or OKL). At least OSU will play USC next year.
LSU should have been playing Georgia today, but Tennessee's win in OTTTTT last week did them in). Only fitting that LSU got screwed by Kentucky again this year.
The SEC is great, but the 4 game out of conference schedule of SEC teams implies some self-esteem issues. With all of the teams on the east coast- they should do better. Sure, the SEC beats itself up, but they would have trouble getting as many bowl eligible teams if they played one more conference game and one less out of conference. LSU should have played Georgia as part of their regular schedule.The sports media is making a case for LSU and USC because both teams are their last hold on preseason credibility. At the beginning of the season ESPN had USC and LSU as the most impressive war machines since the Wehrmacht, ie nothing short of an aberrant comet, global pestilence, or accelerated global warming could change the USC/LSU matchup in New Orleans. Obviously, it has all turned out to be the biggest crock of media bs since Dan Rather and the national guard, but heck, it keeps us interested!So no one is going on a limb and saying that Clemson will go to the Sugar Bowl, eh?I don't hink the buckeyes losing by 40 last year can be considered a fluke.
I agree that OSU should go to the Big Dance, but my biggest problem with them is that they only beat one team in the top 25.
LSU beat 6 I think with two losses in 3OT. I hate the Tigers but I think they earned it.Josh, I am not sure why the Sugar Bowl would pick Clemson when higher ranked options are available. Do they traditionally travel well to big games?Well, Washington just missed a field goal, so it's still 28-21 Huskies. Hawaii actually has more yards, but they've lost 3 fumbles. They've also allowed 250 yards in rushing so far too.jensanity - I would think that conferences could find a way to settle on a champion during regular season if it meant that a 2 or 3 loss champion (plus an "at large" runner up) could play for the NC each year despite SEC canabalism.Suppose we delete Vanderbilt or Ole Miss from the SEC. Then there is no conference title game, GA, LSU, and Tenn tie at 6-2, GA takes it due to highest BCS rating, and there is no debate. A technicality shouldn't screw someone out of the title game. It's not like GA lost at the end of the year, like Nebraska and Oklahoma in years past. But LSU did this year!Jensanity, well, if Hawaii loses, the Rose picks Illinios, and the Fiesta goes with Kansas, the Sugar will basically have a choice between Arizona State and Clemson to play LSU.
(Clemson is currently 16th in the BCS. You need to be in the top 14, but with BC losing and a Hawaii loss in this scenario, Clemson should make it)
Arizona State is looking to be 11th or so in the BCS while Clemson would be probably be around 13th, so the rank difference wouldn't be that big, and Clemson is obviously closer to New Orleans.
I just thought I'd throw that possibility out there.I just watched OU crush Missouri and was totally impressed. I know a lot of people think LSU should play OSU but I have to give the Sooners a lot of credit. If they hadn't gotten their QB knocked out in the Texas Tech game they would have won it. As it stands they only lost by a touchdown with Bradford dazed on the bench. I think an OSU-OU game would be awesome to see. Anyone know when the last time they played each other?UTexUHouFan,
I guess if we kick two teams out and then play everyone like the Pac 10.
Kudos to the Pac 10 for using that extra NCCA game to play a conference game. It sucks to have to travle to Gainesville to watch the Gators Play Florida Atlantic in Nov. It just too long a drive.Christopher's right. 8-team playoff is the way to go. I too am enjoying the unpredictability of this season immensely. That being said, if the purpose of playing is to determine a champion (which the BCS ostensibly is), then we need a playoff because the BCS system is a joke since it settles nothing.
The Sugar, Fiesta, Rose and Orange bowls should host the 1st round over the New Year holiday. Semifinals a week later and the Championship game the week after that.
Using the New Year bowl games as playoffs makes sense. It would only extend the season by a week and there are already 5 Bowl games being played after Jan 1 anyway. Besides, what would you rather see...the International (Jan 5) and GMAC (Jan 6) bowls or the semifinal games of a college football championship? I thought so...
All the arguments against a college playoff are ridiculous because Div 1-AA does it as well as every other major NCAA sport (baseball and basketball). The NCAA would implement a playoff if they had the support of the league commissioners. In general, coaches want a playoff and the commissioners don't because the latter are afraid of losing guaranteed bowl revenue with the current tie-ins that are in place.
In other words, the decision not to have a playoff is based on MONEY (surprise) and nothing else!
So do the right thing everyone. If you're a true college sports fan, BOYCOTT the bowl games until the NCAA and commissioners give us what we want! A true playoffs to determine the 1-A football national champs!
End of rant... :-)ok heres how it should play out.... Ohio St is in. That leaves one spot open for the championship game. lets start with those who shouldnt even be considered... 1 Missouri, losing twice in the same season to the same team is not national championship caliber material... LSU, although they do play in what I consider to be ARGUABLY the toughtest conference in the nation they dont deserve it either { Sorry Les overtime counts as loses}. Oklahoma although deserving lost to Colorado enough said. So that leaves us with V-Tech, USC and Georgia. Yes V-Tech lost to LSU but that was early and in LSU's backyard plus I have my doubts that if they were to play again it wouldnt be a total reversal of the game and score. That leaves us with USC, they lost to Stanford also enough said with that, and add the fact that since Ohio St and USC play the next 2 seasons I dont see that happening. So to me it comes down to V-Tech and Georgia. V-Tech deserving as well lost badly to LSU and blew a game against Boston College. That leaves Georgia. Although they started out slowly they are now one of the hottest teams in college football and its not their fault they didnt play LSU that would be the schedule makers fault and it is my further beleive that if they would have met in the SEC championship game they would have layed a good old fashioned butt whippin on LSU. So my championship game would be Ohio St vs Georgia.UGA should get their fair shot. They went 5-0 against ranked teams and won their last 6. They were number 4 and should no doubt move to 2. Although I'm not a big fan of the BCS, I don't believe anyone (especially # 7 LSU) can jump to #2 ahead of UGA. Remember a few years back, Oklahoma lost in their Championship game to Kansas State and still played USC in the NC. Whether it's UGA or LSU, I think either one will dominate OState. And to the Big10 fan out there who said the Big10 was 2-1 last year against the SEC, that's fine because Ohio State has NEVER beaten an SEC team in a bowl game 0-8. Not to mention the straight up record SEC vs Big10 is not even close with the SEC doubling up on the victories. Go Dawgs!!Ohio State last played Oklahoma in 1983. They've played only twice, and are 1-1-0 against each other.I almost forgot how many "butt-whooppins" (whatever those are) the SEC dealt out to the rest of the world this year. My frame of reference was UT vs Cal. Sorry, I must have had too much to drink that night.I almost forgot how many "butt-whoopins" (whatever those are) the SEC dealt out to the rest of the world this year. My frame of reference was UT vs Cal. Sorry, I must have had too much to drink that night.dawgnation,
I will say this, watching my gators play both, I would say that GA was the better team, Hester would just fall backwards once we should have won at their place.
We were not so close in the GA game even though the score was kinda close, the defense couldn't even begin to stop the dawgs. They ran and passed all over us.After Stewart watched Mizzou - Kansas last week (His *FIRST* BIG-12 game), he voted Mizzou #1. Obviously a better team than anything he has seen in the SEC or BIG-10 or PAC-10 or Big East. Otherwise he wouldn't have voted them #1, would he? And of course, Stewart predicted a Missouri win over Oklahoma.
Now that Oklahoma has soundly beaten Missouri, obviously Missouri wasn't good enough within the Big-12.
So does that mean you vote Oklahoma #1 now, Stew?
Or no, because you didn't watch the game? (It was a Big-12 game, which Stewart normally never watches.)
I bet no.For everyone calling for a playoff... think about how UNINTERESTING today and tonight would have been if there was a playoff looming. I have news for you. Today was a defacto playoff. With a playoff system, I might not have watched ANY games today. But with this system (as imperfect as it is) I was flipping back and forth all night.Alright, so who does everyone think will be number one to start the season next year?A couple comments earlier were right on...all you "geniuses" that are so sure OSU will lose AGAIN (and by the way, check out OSU's bowl record over the past 7-8 years...very impressive) or that claim to have knowledge of ANY outcome need to realize you DON'T have that knowledge. How many of you would have guessed that both WVU and Missouri would lose? My guess is none of you. This is the Season of the Unpredictable.
Personally, I'd have rather OSU played USC in the Rose Bowl...a great venue that we love, and a great matchup. We'll see what happens, but to assume OSU is going to lose again if they get in the NC game, and to talk like it's a traditional thing, is pretty stupid and shows a pretty shallow level of cognitive functioning; it most certainly says you're unable to see patterns.
Nobody that I know is saying OSU is the best team out there, but I think they can hang with anybody and Tressel will have them ready for whatever game they get in. There are NO dominant or elite teams this year, people...face up to it...not even YOUR beloved team. Some started hot but slowed down, some got hot lately, but who knows how they'll be playing in a month or so?
ANYBODY talking smack at this point is doing exactly that...just talking baseless smack. On a positive note, it has been an incredible season, and if everybody's egos weren't so clearly at stake in all of this, it would have been even more enjoyable to discuss.Tom, the computers had Missouri #1 as well
blang13, today were CONFERENCE playoffs to see what teams could have gotten into a hypothetical playoff.
It still doesn't tell us who is better between Oklahoma, Ohio State, Virginia Tech, Georgia, Hawaii (assuming they win), Kansas, USC, etc. etc.
All the regular season is largely good for is to see who is the best teams in their conference with a few OOC games to use as measuring sticks between conferences. The regular season does little to actually see who the best team in the nation is.That was a really good kick by Hawaii just now." Jensanity said...
Alright, so who does everyone think will be number one to start the season next year?"
Florida, unfortunately.If conference championships (instead of wins over non 1A teams) were the basis of national championships, then teams wouldn't need to keep scheduling cupcake teams to play. It would remove the fear of playing non-conference foes, since a non-conference loss wouldn't hurt as much.In the beginning of the year, you have little basis for ranking teams. At this time of year, all the teams have played a full season, so they can be judged on the quality of the teams they played, and the results achieved.
So, compare LSU vs. GA; they didn't play each other. LSU played an extra game (that should count for a lot) and beat TN. LSU wins that comparison.
Compare LSU vs VT. LSU beat VT handily. There's nothing to debate there. BTW, it's ridiculous that VT is ranked above LSU right now.
It doesn't matter "who's playing the best now", because that's much more subjective than looking at records for this year. Plus, it's not "who's playing the best right now", it's who has earned it. LSU has played the toughest schedule. They lost 2 close games. Compare their losses to the other 2-loss teams. Compare their wins to the other 2 loss teams. Consider the fact that they played an extra game against a good team (TN).
Among the teams "eligible", LSU and OSU deserve to be in the NC game.Larry you are right...just like everyone said Ohio State would crush Florida last year.Also, if winning your conference was MANDATORY for qualifying for national champion, then you'd still see a regular season where every game counts, possibly even more than it does now. And winning non-conference games would still be significant, because you'd want ranking to qualify for an "at large" spot.OK, Josh, then here is the only way I see a playoff system working and keeping the regular season worth ANYTHING.
8 spots. 6 conference champions of BCS conferences. 2 highest ranked non-BCS teams.
Dont win your conference, you arent in the playoffs. Anything else just renders tonight and the previous 13 weeks meaningless.TO Jensanity: for the last couple of weeks I have been looking over teams rosters from around the country. And I would have to say it would be a tossup between OSU who loses one player on offense and one on defense or Oklahoma as preaseason #1. whoever is 1 the other will be #2Why did Washington just throw 3 straight passes in a 3-and-out? They have 250 rushing yards!""Alright, so who does everyone think will be number one to start the season next year?"
Florida, unfortunately."
Good I only asked hoping that was what you would say. :)
If the defensive backs aren't better though we may lose opener to Hawaii!To Jensanity:
On the basis of it's record this year, and on the fact that most of its starters return next year, I think it's fair to project Ohio State to be the #1 team. Others may be equally deserving, but I think the Preseason Top 5 is a lock.
Incidentally, that sets up another possible #1 vs. #2 for Ohio State (as with Texas last year), who plays USC on 9/13/2008.Jensanity:
I don't know what a "fluke" is per se., and I don't care enough to bother getting out a dictionary, but I think sometimes teams just don't play to their potential. OSU played poorly, and Florida and Leak had their best game of the year...that gives you the result. OSU is a very good team this year, as is LSU, Oklahoma, USC, etc...and you'll see that in the bowl games."8 spots. 6 conference champions of BCS conferences. 2 highest ranked non-BCS teams.
Dont win your conference, you arent in the playoffs. Anything else just renders tonight and the previous 13 weeks meaningless."
That would be the best way to do an 8-team playoff, yes. I agree winning your conference still must mean something.
I'd actually rather have a 16 team playoff with all 11 conference champions and 5 at large teams.
That way you get Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Ohio State, Oklahoma, Central Florida, Central Michigan, Brigham Young (do you want to play them?), USC, LSU, Florida Atlantic, and Hawaii in as auto-bids with probably Georgia, Kansas, Florida (assuming we allow more than 2 teams from a conference), Missouri (ditto), and Arizona State as wildcards (Clemson and Illinois are in if we have a 2-team limit)Yeah I think Florida, Ohio State, and USC would be the front runners based on the returning players.
Gators get that USC running back Moody eligible next year which should help the running game too.you're all going to ignore this comment since you're all busy arguing who's best, but all i ask is that if you have any self respect you don;t refer to a team as "we" or "us" or "my --------" unless you graduated from that university. no; no other circumstances are acceptable. if you're not an alumni, they are not "your buckeyes" (or whatever other team to which you are referring).I say UGA or UF will be #1. Both started 14 freshmen on both sides of the field. Both are very young and explosive.Dawg:
Can't tell sometimes if a blog is sarcastic or not so I'll assume you are truly agreeing :) but yeah, last year was a good example. As was 2002 when all we heard here in Columbus from Canes fans was "you've never seen speed like ours, you'll never be able to deal with speed like ours". OSU is plenty fast and plenty strong, just like other top teams. At that level, and in those games, I truly believe what makes the difference is emotion and heart and drive. It's the eye of the tiger, man, you know??"if you're not an alumni, they are not "your buckeyes" (or whatever other team to which you are referring)."
I have the unfortunate position of being a Syracuse grad...Larry:
I agree that OSU is good this year and last. I was just responding to a post that brushed off the loss as an obvious "Fluke". I just wished the Big Ten had a few more capable teams to test the buckeyes a bit more.
I always felt that way with Miami and FSU too though too and they always killed their bowl opponents.larry-
I agree. Now that the season has played out I believe that OSU is ignored or disregarded at their opponents peril. It isn't that the Buckeyes are that good or invincible, but they are as good as anyone else and if the SEC rep waltzes into the title game believing what their fans are posting I'm willing to bet that on January 8 finding we are going to experience some very lonely blogs. I've been watching the SEC all season and what I see are missed tackles, overthrown passes, idiotic coaching decisions, very poor run defenses, and poor clock management. I'll give the SEC credit due to the week-in and week-out level of competition, but I give them a "C" in the fundamentals of football.As an OSU fan I commend Florida on last years thrashing. Troy Smith { Mr Heisman was to busy admiring his heisman trophy to study game films, Ted Ginn Jr was hurt on the first lay of the game and Jim Heacock couldnt call a defense that would have stopped a high school team that night. But I hand it to Florida they played a monster of a game. Also sitting back and hearing how OSU would walk all over them had a little motivational factor their too, to bad OSU actually believed the press clippingsWhy does the Big Ten underpay its coaches so terribly? I mean, SEC, PAC-10 and Big 12 coaches are making the cheddar ($3m+ range) while their counterparts in the Big Ten earn less than $1 million. JoePa makes $500,000 and Lloyd Carr made only 1.25m. Aren't they concerned they'd lose quality coaches like they lost Les Miles?Hawaii just tied their game up...Charles:
You've mentioned that before in other posts...I guess I don't see the problem. Why does that bug you so much? Just curious...
In any case, I got my graduate degree from OSU and my undergraduate degree from Purdue so I'll proudly proclaim to watch out for MY Boilers next year! :)
Seriously, I know OSU and Florida should be ranked highly next year due to so many players coming back, but I haven't heard much about other teams...I'll take you USC and UGA fans word for it...should be an exciting year again!Sorry, 16 teams is too many. And then you have the same problem as now. Who gets INVITED. I hate the idea of a playoff unless only conference champs are in.
I'll use LSU as an example... in an invite system, they are in no matter what they do in the SEC champ game. And today loses all intrigue.Quick pitch for the hokies to be in the NC:
1) they won their conference (unlike uga and ku)
2) they beat a higher ranked team than lsu did by a greater margin
3) they are currently ranked higher in the bcs and the coaches poll than usc,ou,and lsu
4) they are on as much of a 'roll' as uga or usc, as they have won their last 5 games while winning by double digits
5)in that 5 game span, they have scored almost 35 pts a game while allowing only 15 pts per game and allowing ZERO points in the 4th quarters of those games
6) the two losses have come to the #1 and #2 team (at the time) both of whom are currently ranked, while neither of lsu's losses are to currently ranked teams
7) the loss to lsu was in week 2, and it is obvious given the info above that the hokies are NOT the same team (the return of LT Ed Wang and the maturation of sophmore starters kam chancellor and cam martin on d, who were starting the second game of their careers in death valley at the time)
I am of course a vt fan, but the lack of credit being given to the hokies on tv has bothered me and the information needed to be brought out.Why do you assume that we are not alumni? Didn't half of the mid west attend Ohio State? I have never really seen a team travle that well, at the NC game last year it felt like 70% OSU to 30% FL.
Dawgnation: Good point GA should be good as well. I hope Moreno gets inot off the field issues during off season... :)
The Cocktail Party should be a good one next year!You know, what I find odd is that this year, everybody has accepted the fact that the SEC is a superior conference. Sure 10 of there 12 teams are bowl eligible. On the other hand, the big ten is consistently reviewed as weak, but 10 of the 11 teams are bowl eligible. I see know difference, other than the fact that the big ten is better and played a much more difficult nonconference schedule.
I also find it funny that the big ten beat the SEC in bowl wins last year, but SEC fans never respond to that argument, becuase they have no response.
SEC fans are idiots, let's be honest. All they have down there is football, whereas the rest of us have an education. Hell, my dead dog got into LSU. The rest of us know that the SEC in engaging in "if you say it enough, everyone will believe it" politics. That was the case this year. All the media bought it. But when Ole Miss gives you a game, your lies come out."Sorry, 16 teams is too many. And then you have the same problem as now. Who gets INVITED. I hate the idea of a playoff unless only conference champs are in."
I'm definitely open to the argument that 16 may be too many. I just hate basically giving no non-BCS teams any chance to play for a title under any circumstance.
As for selecting teams - yes, no matter what system you choose other than a "everyone plays" playoff, you're going to have controversy over who gets in vs. who doesn't. However, it's a lot better to argue about who is #8 or #16 than #2.Today's games would still have been very interesting because they would have determined which teams made the 8 team playoff.
USC win would've got them in
WV already in
LSU needed the win, otherwise TENN if they cracked the top 12
Loser of the OKLA-MIZ game would not have made it
VT made it with a win
Likely top 8 participants after today (seeding TBA)
OSU - Big Ten
USC - PAC 10
LSU - SEC
WV - Big East
VT - ACC
OKLA - Big 12
Georgia - at large
Kansas - at large
Would anyone be complaining with this result? Only Hawaii would have a complaint, but ya gotta get in the top 8 to get a guaranteed spot if you're not in a major conference. If VT and LSU would've lost today then Hawaii might have made it, same with ASU."Why does the Big Ten underpay its coaches so terribly?"
Colin Cowherd used this perfect analogy on his radio show...
It's the same reason that Detroit media types are paid so well and Phoenix and Miami media types are not. Everyone wants to be in those markets, and no one wants to be in Detroit.
LSU pays Les Miles 3.5 million because it has to do that to keep him there. OSU, Michigan and Penn State dont have to pay so much. Think about it, the recruiting pipeline for OSU is amazing. Ohio is pretty much considered top 3 in High School talent. And it is almost exclusively the property of Michigan, PSU and OSU.
Pretty attractive place to coach when you can almost accidently win 9 games a year.
And does anyone think Joe Pa does this for the MONEY?Larry,
Not being sarcastic at all. I was just pointing out the game last year, & you're right the same was true with Miami /OState. Everyone was all over Miami and OState took care of business.
I truly do hope for a Ohio State vs UGA or LSU NC game.Kurt Burglar:
Actually SEC schools rank very highly in acedemics.
I mean try to get into Vanderbilt or Florida these days, you need like a 1500 on the SAT.Jensanity:
Yeah, I wish we had been a bit stronger this year as well, since it's been a pretty big and painful year for Big 10 bashing. I've never said we're better than anyone else, but I don't think we're as bad as some make us out to be, and I think/hope that we'll show that during the bowl games.
I think last year, OSU played poorly when they couldn't afford to, and if Florida had played like they had in a number of their regular season games it could have been close...but Leak et al. played a GREAT game, and boom! that's the result.
To Trojansrule's point, I agree that one underestimates OSU (or any team this year) at their own peril. I can tell you with absolute certainty that Tressel and the players are VERY motivated to have a different outcome this year, and Tressel is a very fine coach indeed.
In any case, it'll be interesting to see how the rankings come out. While in previous years the BCS thing has generally "worked itself out", I don't think it will this year...maybe at the very least it gets us a +1 game in the interim before a playoff system.Give me a conference that could beat the SEC from the top 6 to 8 teams in each conference.
Well, considering that Cal -- 6-6 and SEVENTH place in the Pac-10 -- totally bitch-slapped one of the SEC's division champions, that's really not a tough assignment.
And, wow, what's with all the name-calling? More of that built-in southern inferiority complex, I guess.
Have fun for another few weeks, LSU fans. Next year, you won't be converting all those fourth downs -- luck can be funny that way. And your chowderhead coach will cost you at least two games."Actually SEC schools rank very highly in acedemics.
I mean try to get into Vanderbilt or Florida these days, you need like a 1500 on the SAT."
That's nice. Unless things have changed, at Tennessee basically if you graduated from high school in the state you got in lol. Thus I did not go in-state cause their schools were, um, lacking.This is why I dread a playoff. At large teams from power conferences.
I'm sorry, but this isnt basketball. Want to play for a national title? First win your conference. Cant do that, then sit this one out.Arizona State must be the biggest Washington fans in the nation right now...Yikes...wow...got late (or early) quickly all of a sudden!
Later all...good blogging with you...good luck to you and your teams!Larry:
I agree Tressel is goign to work his butt off to make sure he is ready this time....I'm sure he did last year too, but that was the perception.
He's going to make sure they are not flat this year.
Although I will admit I thought it was going to be a long night after that first kick return. The OSU Fans were conviced in that 10 seconds it was wrapped up."...if you're not an alumni, they are not "your buckeyes" (or whatever other team to which you are referring)."
So.....with that reasoning.... buying season tickets at $75 a pop doesn't make me "eligible" to call a team "mine?" If a lot of people stopped buying season tickets based on your harsh eligibility rules for fandom - a lot of stadiums would be awfully empty.
As for pre-season #1 teams next season... you have to go with Florida, USC, Oklahoma. I heard them tonight talking about how scary the Sooners will be returning almost everybody from the starting lineup. Sam Bradford will be back of course and his is simply an other-worldly good quarterback.Josh:
Well come on I didn't mention Tenn. for that very reason :) We all know those guys are stupid. haha.
Unfortunately or I guess I should rather say fortunately I only applied to one school and based that decision 100% on College Football. Hey maybe we are dumb SEC fans then.Kurt,
Let's be real if you want to throw around numbers. The SEC leads the Big Ten with a 63-45-2 all-time record. The SEC has a .582 winning percentage versus the Big Ten & Ohio State has never beaten an SEC Team in a bowl game.Hawaii takes the lead with under a minute to go.So who is going to take this Heisman home this year?
Seems pretty wide open to me. The South East Vote could be split with Tebow and McFadden. Who will the midwest, the west, and the North East vote for?Jen:
Have to respond before turning in (seeing as how my son is going to be getting up in about 4 hours...)
Yeah, I was fired up when Ginn returned it, then when Florida scored immediately I thought "well, it's gonna be a game"...and then of course Ginn left the game, blah blah blah...
Some of us OSU fans can be rabid (like any school's can--and in some cases it's truly frightening) but I can assure you we hate losing like that as much as anyone, and of all the people here in Columbus who hated losing like that, at the very top of the list would be Tressel. We'll see, but hopefully this year will be some vindication.
It's kind of funny though...if OSU had lost by a score or two in last year's game, I don't think we would have faced the same scorn/derision that we did this entire year. Michigan would have been the lone blow out...but that's "woulda coulda shoulda" I guess. In any case, I think this year will be different. I'll simply settle for players on all teams playing with honor and integrity and hopefully all of us realizing there are more important things in life than who the "champion" is--sometimes gotta keep things in perspective, you know? :)Larry:
I hope OSU does win this year, I don't have that SEC pride of other teams, just my own. :)
So hopefully they kill GA or LSU.
Good Night.Kent Burglar said:
"SEC fans are idiots, let's be honest. All they have down there is football, whereas the rest of us have an education."
Yet, Kent Burglar wrote:
I see know difference, other than the fact that the big ten is better....
Not to be too snarky, but you might try understanding the difference between "no" and "know" before writing about how the SEC is full of idiots and you are so educated.21 to 0 washington. Hawaii's schedule is a joke. Washington is not even a good team.
Football games last for four quarters, genius.
Hawaii 35, Washington 28, and that's a final. I can't wait for Hawaii to beat another media-hyped team from a BCS conference, just like Boise State did last year. I only pray it's a team from the SEC.Stewart-
ESPN's "pushing" of LSU in the BCS Title Game is the biggest lemon in the history of editorial male bovine excrement. How can you possibly stand still for this?Hawaii wins.No doubt this is the craziest year yet in BCS history. The losses by the top two teams today have left a real mess. So many teams have legitimate reasons to make a claim to the title game, and ALL those same teams have issues that should preclude them also.
As much as it may upset some, I don't see how you can justify the the title game being anyone other than OSU and Georgia. The voters should not and cannot in good conscience raise teams 5 to 7 spots up in order to create their "ideal" matchup. To do so would completely destroy the creditability (what is left of it) of the voting system and render it effectively meaningless.
I can see teams jumping another, as in the case of Florida, but not several. The ONLY team I can see jumping ahead of UGA is VT. Any other scenario would be a huge black eye on the BCS system.
Come to think of it, may be that isn't such a bad thing after all...Lifelong Buckeye Fan here.
OSU vs LSU.
I said once the Bucks got the #1 BCS spot that the ONLY way would get the RESPECT nationally that they deserve is to play and beat LSU on virtually their home field. No one in Buckeye nation and the rest of the country for that matter thought that the Buckeyes would have been 11-1 and possibly playing for the NC.
It has to be LSU and here's why, yes they lost 2 games to marginally good teams but they did win the SEC. USC played ONLY 2 teams with winning records, they are good but not LSU good. Georgia did not even win their conference, same with Kansas. Oklahoma lost badly to and got dominated by Texas Tech. VT got well dumped on by LSU. It's very simple LSU should have a shot at it.
I thought that after just abusing Va. Tech that no one would even get close to them, well, that's college football. The SEC is brutal, they were banged up but do deserve a shot. But just know this folks, Tressel admits that he made a ton of mistakes last year going into the NC game. Losing Ginn for the game really hurt, well that was last year and I give Florida all the credit in the world. But with the coaching job he has done this year, think about the people he had to replace and the fact that they sit at 11-1 and unless something horrible happens (which could) The Buckeyes do deserve another shot.
I believe LSU will be highly favored and I'm actually pretty happy about that. Think back a few years ago when the slow, methodical Big Ten Champion Buckeyes went out and faced a Miami Hurricanes team that was going to beat Ohio State worse than they had beaten Nebraska the year before. Tress will not let that happen again, I'm not saying OSU will definitely win but LSU will have a war on its' hands and don't be surpised if THEE Ohio State University carries home that crystal trophy.
Go Bucks!My humble view on all the relevant teams.
WVU: The big east refs did all they could to help West Virginia and they still lost. They are the best team when they are hot, but they choked big time tonight.
OSU deserves their chance at the title bc they have been the most consistent team all year. I disagree that they can't play with the SEC. OSU puts as many players in the NFL as any SEC team.
LSU is the most talented team this side of USC but have shot themselves in the foot all year. They are similar to Florida's championship team last year in this aspect. If they make it to the championship game, they will be the favorite.
UGA is arguably the hottest team, but they are similar to West Virginia in the fact that they can totally suck on any given day. Voters will remember that Tennessee stepped on their face with a hobnail boot at Knoxville this year.
USC is probably the most talented and hottest team right now, and would be favored in the championship game against anyone but LSU. However, they lost to freakin' Stanford at home, voters can't forgive that.
Kansas has only one loss and a great offense, but they haven't beaten a ranked team and they racked up their numbers against the big 12 whose whole conference other than OU has forgotten how to play defense.
OU can actually play a little defense and have a good offense taking advantage of the defense-less Big 12. But they also are Jekyll and Hyde like. Voters will remember that odd collapse in Boulder and that they were dominated by Texas Tech.
ASU showed the nation against USC that aren't contenders and will most likely miss out on a BCS game.
Hawaii will get a chance in a BCS game if they win tonight which is way more than they deserve.
I actually think Florida would kick averyones arse's right now but there is no playoff.
Here are my humble bowl projections,
BCS championship: OSU VS LSU
OSU will get really sick of hearing how they don't match up with the SEC for the next month. You can bet that they will be fired up to play. However, LSU will have a month to rest their bumps and bruises from the physical SEC. Expect LSU to play similar tto how they played against VA Tech earlier this season. This will make for a classic back and forth game with LSU coming out on top 37-27.
Rose Bowl: USC VS Illinois
This will be a fun matchup between two very athletic teams. Illinois offense is similar to Oregon but not as refined. The stout USC defense should be able to shut down the Illini enough to win comfortably 28-13.
Fiesta Bowl: OU vs KU
Arizona State could get the nod over Kansas here but I doubt it. OU will beat KU handily in an offensive slugfest 48-24. ASU would be trickier for OU. It would be a home game for ASU and the Sun Devils will be pumped. I think ASU would beat OU 31-20 making the Big 12 look even more overrated.
Orange Bowl: WVU vs Va Tech
This will be a good matchup between a dynamic offense and a stalwart defense. Va Tech's offense has woken up the last few weeks with their dual QB threat. Pat White should be healthy again and the Mountaineers will be looking tfor retribution following one of the worst choke jobs this side of the 04 Yankees. This will be a tough call but I think Va Tech will scrape this one out in a defensive struggle 20-17.
Sugar Bowl: UGA vs Hawaii
Hawaii has played a bunch of patsies this year. UGA has seemingly played a tough rivalry game against a top 25 team almost every week. How many games would Hawaii lose if they played UGA's schedule(i.e. Florida, Tenn, Auburn, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Alabama, Arkansas). Yet, Hawaii will be up for this game and Georgia may be down. If Georgia comes to play they will win easily, but I expect a close one with the Dawgs taking it 28-24 as they sleepwalk around the Superdome mourning that aren't playing a week later."So many teams have legitimate reasons to make a claim to the title game, and ALL those same teams have issues that should preclude them also."
Kenneth, That may be the best comment all night. That is sooo true.Way to go BOWS...good job in coming back. The emotions are pumping now. Good job in shutting down the UW offense when you needed, too. Sometimes, though I think you guys should put a fire under your own butts because you play a little low key. I am concerned that when you play a more balanced team you will find that those teams can overcome your offensive prowess. Keep it up...This post has been removed by the author.Well, I have my thoughts about the BCS on my own blog now:
Too bad I originally wrote it when it was 21-7 Washington, so I wrote it assuming Hawaii lost, so I had to rewrite parts of it lol.In any playoff scenario, I think the eight teams should be the winners of the eight conferences with the highest conference win-loss percentages. That rewards the champions of the more difficult-to-win conferences.
This year that would mean:
SEC at .610 (LSU, 11-2)
B10 at .598 (Ohio State, 11-2)
BE at .594 (West Virginia, 10-2)
B12 at .582 (Oklahoma, 11-2)
ACC at .562 (Va. Tech, 11-2)
P10 at .550 (USC, 10-2)
MW at .519 (Hawaii, 12-0)
WAC at .481 (BYU, 10-2)
If the Independents have a collective W-L percentage better than the least conference AND the Independent with the highest W-L percentage is better than a qualifying conference champion, then it replaces that conference champion.
This year the Independents don't have a better W-L percentage (.438), so 8-4 Navy does not qualify.
Traditional conference tie-ins should be restored, which would result in this:
Rose: Ohio State vs. USC
Fiesta: Oklahoma vs. (BYU or Hawaii)
Sugar: LSU vs. (Hawaii or BYU)
Orange: Va. Tech vs. West Virginia
The winners are your Football Final 4. They are seeded based on conference rank.
Advantages:
1) Only conference champions play for national championship
2) Traditional bowl alignment is restored
3) Season is only extended beyond New Years for 4 teams (and 3 games).
4) The nation gets a champion settled on the field, and 6 additional teams get a shot at it.
Thoughts?Good night all and good luck to whoever gets the nod in this crazy scenario.
As for me I already have my tickets to the Captial One bowl and have made my peace with my team's multiple let downs.
I would have liked to see a Zook vz Meyer match up but looks like Illinois will be getting that BCS berth. Good job Zook, weren't they like 1-11 a couple of seasons ago?
Hopefully the Gators can send Carr out with a humiliating loss.Netizen - BYU is the one in the Mountain-West and Hawaii is in the WAC, but since they both make it in your scenario, it doesn't really matter.
Interesting concept though, as I wouldn't want to play either Hawaii or BYU.In any playoff scenario, I think the eight teams should be the winners of the eight conferences with the highest conference win-loss percentages.
You're kidding, right? You do realize that for EVERY conference played, one conference team wins and one loses?
So, if that's a complete wash for every conference game played in every conference ... all you're saying is to look at non-conference records? In what reality does that make any sense?
(SEC fans would love it, of course ... all those home wins over Gardner-Webb add up pretty quickly.)LSU doesn't deserve the spot. You're a moron, again, Mandel for thinking such things. Virginia Tech by far deserves the spot. End of story. Be responsible. The SEC sucks this year, everyone was wrong and THAT'S why we're in the mess we're in. Don't listen to southerners. They're idiots.The SEC has the worst schools, and thereby the worst students, and thereby the worst intellect. Why did Northwestern grads follow such nonesense this year. Ridiculous.I love the whole "who beat whom" thing. For example, it's OK to discount LSU's losses to unranked teams but not do the same regarding Va Tech's losses to #2 ranked teams. Personally, I don't think the rankings are accurate in the first place. Teams are seldom rewarded for winning, mostly just being punished for losing ("I thought you'd win! How dare you lose and make me look stupid!"). Oh, well. It'll be interesting to see how the BCS rankings screw it up this year. (Hey, here's an idea: since there really aren't 2 deserving teams this year, let's just cancel the BCS championship game. :D)Hawaii vs. BYU for the national title.
There you go.Lets rate the BCS conferences now that the regular season(and choke jobs) are over.
1. SEC Overall the deepest, most physical of the conferences. Every game is a bitter rival and every fan base is full of unreasonable lunatics who live for college football.
2. PAC 10 Would be #1 if not for Dennis Dixon injury. I thought they were the best team this year. Injuries are the problem with running QB's. USC will be better next year.
3. Big 12 Does anyone in this conference know how to play some defense. I think every team has given up 70 at least once this year.
4. Big 10 Looking better and better as the other conferences choked away their big games. Will become much improved during the next couple of years as teams like Illinois and Michigan State improve.
5. tie ACC You know your conference is bad when your best team got beat by 40. The future doesn't look that bright either. Miami and FSU will return to glory, but it will take a few years..
5. tie Big East Total choke job by West Virginia. Pitt was actually better than what the experts were saying, but that was embarrassing. Louisville and Rutgers have been disapointments. UConn is your second best team. Enough said.I really hate Mandel's arguments supporting LSU going to the NC. LSU has been in the position to go to the NC game twice this season, most recently just a week ago. Twice they blew it, most recently just a week ago. While I understand that just about everyone has blown the opportunities given them this season (save for Hawaii), LSU has done nothing particular to deserve a shot at the Championship. As recently as earlier today, Mandel was writing about how, despite taking the SEC, this must be considered a disappointing year for the Tigers. A "disappointing year" should not turn into "most deserving for the NC game" because Pat White hurt his thumb.
The reason Mandel gives for LSU deserving a shot at the title has to do with the "quality opponents" they've beaten, and the close losses they've had. Well, that's nice. But we derive the quality of their opponents mainly from our pre-season opinions of these teams, and a long-standing, flawed belief in the SEC's supremacy as a league. But Tennessee, SEC-East champion (over Georgia, mind), and LSU's most recent "quality win," was soundly thrashed by a frankly-overrated Cal Bears team. My point is that LSU's rep is based on barely beating a number of SEC teams that might not be all that much better than any other league. But because of the prejudiced favor many have given the SEC, every time LSU managed a win over one of their 3-loss overrated teams, it was another reason to keep them in the top 10, no matter what.
If they had close losses, well, so did Michigan (to App. State), and so did USC (to Stanford, while their QB had a broken finger), and if we can forgive LSU's losses for being close, then why not forgive Southern Cal's? Because Stanford had a worse over-all year than Arkansas? Who did Arkansas play again in their non-conference matches? How did they "earn" their winning record, exactly?
Finally, if we're going to penalize Hawaii due to their weak non-conference schedule, I think it must be noted that Ohio State's hardest non-conference opponent was... the University of Washington -- the same as Hawaii's hardest non-conference opponent. Furthermore, Hawaii was interested in some tougher games, but those tough Big 10 teams originally slated dropped out at the last moment, afraid to pile on another loss. Apparently, they thought something of Hawaii. And why not? Hawaii put up a great season last year, has a Heisman-finalist (or at least he should be) at the helm, and last I checked, went undefeated in the *year of the upset*.
But no, LSU deserves the opportunity more than Hawaii, and more than everyone else, because they smoked the underwhelming Volunteers tonight with a total of one offensive touchdown and a couple of lucky picks.
In truth, no one really *deserves* to go this year, and the one sane argument to take away from all of this is for a playoff... but to argue for LSU? Is simply wrong.All I can keep thinking of are all the people that bemoaned Tressel's hire after Coop was fired. "Sure he can coach at the I-AA level, but this is Ohio State, the Big Ten, and I-A." Now in seven years, The-Sweater-Vest is going to be in his THIRD title game. Win-or-lose, there are not many coaches that can lay claim to that one, eh?To dukester:
Re-read my post and re-think your reply.
In any playoff scenario, I think the eight teams should be the winners of the eight conferences with the highest CONFERENCE win-loss percentages. That rewards the champions of the more difficult-to-win conferences.
I'm NOT talking about a team's W-L percentage within its conference. That would be stupid.
This year's overall conference W-L percentages:
SEC (82-64) was .610
B10 (79-53) was .598
BE (57-39) was .594
B12 (85-61) was .582
ACC (82-64) was .562
P10 (66-54) was .550
MW (56-52) was .519
WAC (52-56) was .481
And, no, it's not all about NON-conference games, it's about ALL games. Consider how many teams were above .500 within their conferences, compared to the number above .500 overall:
ACC - 5 of 12; 7 of 12
B12 - 4 of 12; 6 of 12
BE - 4 of 8; 5 of 8
B10 - 4 of 11; 8 of 11
CUSA - 6 of 12; 6 of 12
MAC - 5 of 13; 3 of 13
MW - 4 of 9; 5 of 9
P10 - 5 of 10; 4 of 10
SEC - 5 of 12; 8 of 12
SB - 4 of 8; 2 of 8
WAC - 3 of 9; 3 of 9
A conference with fewer winning teams in conference play as compared to overall is an indicator of its competitiveness. That's the SEC argument, right? The ACC, BE, B12, B10, MW, and SEC all had fewer winning teams in conference play than overall, and could therefore be judged the more conpetitive conferences.SEC was way overrated this year that is the main reason there were so many "Upsets" Our opinions were skewed by media hype. Ohio State lost last year due to a long lay off and could very well suffer the same fate this year. We will never know who is the National champ even in years past since we don't have a playoff. We can pretty much tell who the best eight are so that is an additional 3 weeks for a few teams. Just split the money from the proceeds amongst all schools with the winners taking more of the share. Enough with this BCS nonsense already.The LSU faithful like to point out that LSU beat Va Tech by 41 points 3 months ago--"enough said". (1) One game does not a season make. (2) The consensus among BCS voters is that right now Va Tech is better than LSU and that if they were to play right now Va Tech would win. (3) Isn't it funny how the Georgia faithful like to ignore the first part of their season too, you know, back when they were getting beaten by Tennessee by 3 touchdowns (but, you know, those early games don't matter anymore... unless you're not in the SEC, of course). Pot, kettle, black. :DHaving lived in the South for a while, I've learned that praising one's opponent to the skies is a tactic that very seldom works. This is primarily because no one in the Big 12 or the SEC, apparently, expects such pre-game accolades to be taken too seriously (and probably distrust their opponents enough to disregard, out-of-hand, compliments from such an unlikely source). The tactic worked, however, in the case of West Virginia vs. Pittsburgh. After you, Stewart, and rest of the national media pundits picked up on the "WVU powerhouse" theme, the Mountaineers apparently came to believe that they could "mail in" a win against the battered, inexperienced, and unranked Panthers.
In the end, it didn't make for a great night for the Big East, but it was a great night for Pitt football. As rivalries go, Pitt-West Virginia is one of the historic ones. It's an especially bitter one, too, because no matter how good a team WVU has fielded over the years, they just haven't seemed to be able to win that one important game, of which last night's is just one of multiple examples. Pitt has not only enjoyed a commanding lead in the series -- their 'upset' wins have come at more inopportune and damaging times vis-a-vis West Virginia's [potential] post-season aspirations.
I recently caught an interview with Mack Brown, the University of Texas coach, who was describing a conversation between a Longhorns coach and "Spike" Dykes, the Texas Tech coach from 1987 to 1999. The Red Raiders had suffered a lot of injuries and, prior to the UT-TTU game, the Texas coach asked Dykes what kind of shape his players would be in for the upcoming game. Dykes's reply pretty much sums up the motivation a great rivalry can provide: "They could be sick and [playing] you [UT] would make them well." Pitt had been 'sick' for most of this season, with early, season-ending injuries at several key positions. Emotionally, at least, last night provided some healing balm and constituted a giant step toward the kind of team I think these young Panthers can become. Go Pitt!PittFaninFlorida:
You know sometimes I don't like the derisive comments about OSU and the Big 10 :) , but I have to throw a hearty "congratulations" your way on a great win last night. Pitt played with heart and fire and intensity, and I guess just never realized they were supposed to lose. With all the "BCS is in shambles" talk Pitt's achievement is being (understandably) overshadowed, but their win really exemplified this season, and is truly one of the great things about college football. Like I said before, if people's egos weren't so wrapped up on their teams (an entirely normal thing of course) and we didn't smack talk each other so much, we could probably all enjoy a season like this just a little bit more for all the upsets, wild story lines, etc.
Again, congrats to the Panthers on a great win!
P.S. I'm NOT saying this because it potentially helps get OSU into the NC game; I would have been fine with WVU and Missouri if both had won out and in fact would have looked forward to a trip to Pasadena, but if the NC opportunity comes our way, we'll try to be ready for that too.Also, condolences to WVU fans on a tough loss. All I can say is "join the club"...pretty much everybody here has been in your shoes at some point in this crazy season. And to those (I think few) WVU fans who were talking about how WVU would destroy/obliterate/manhandle OSU and anybody else, well, days like today are the downside of smack talking.Goldilocks says, "8 teams is too few, 16 too many... 12 team post season system is just right."
Selections and seeding for a 12 team Bowl Qualification Series (ie playoff) would look as follows.
Seed 1 - highest conf champ
(2007 Ohio State)
Seed 2 - 2nd highest conf champ
(2007 LSU)
Seed 3 - 3rd highest conf champ
(2007 Virginia Tech)
Seed 4 - 4th highest conf champ
(2007 USC)
Seed 5 - 5th conf champ or at large
must finish in top 25
(2007 Oklahoma)
Seed 6 - 6th conf champ or at large
must finish in top 25
(2007 West Virginia?)
Seed 7 - 7th conf champ or at large
must finish in top 25
(2007 Hawaii)
Seed 8 - 8th conf champ or at large
must finish in top 25
(2007 BYU)
Seed 9 - Highest at large
max 1 at large per conf
(2007 Georgia)
Seed 10 - 2nd Highest at large
max 1 at large per conf
(2007 Missouri)
Seed 11 - 3rd Highest at large
max 1 at large per conf
(2007 Arizona State?)
Seed 12 - 4th Highest at large
max 1 at large per conf
(2007 Boston College?)
ROUND 1 (13th game for 8 teams)
Teams 1-4 get Bye
Teams 5-8 get homefield v 9-12
Benefit: extra game $ for 5-8
ROUND 2 (13th or 14th game)
Teams 1-4 get homefield v RND 1
Benefit: extra game $ for 1-4
ROUND 3 (Tied into 2 BCS Bowls?)
winner 1 plays winner 4
winner 2 plays winner 3
ROUND 4 (+1 National Champ Game)
finalists play for it all
Benefit: Only 15th game for a top
4 seeded team. 16th game for a
lower seeded team.
12 team system does a better job of admitting BCS conf champs, plus a couple of lower conf champs, plus some at large conf runners up (or independants). But it doesn't add too many undeserving teams and uninteresting games like a 16 team playoff would.
A "12 Team BQS" (Bowl Qualification System) is the way to go.Posted: 1:07 AM by Jason
yeah bgault,
you CAN construct sentences too! yay, good for you. All you've proved is what everyone knows about the SEC this season...the SEC was overrated and they all beat up on each other (this is coming from an LSU fan...ooooh scary, yeah I said it)
Let's follow your argument out - and leave the margin of victory out because that doesn't count for anything in any conference anymore...
YOUR ARGUMENT MAKES NO LOGICAL SENSE.
------------------------------
Jason, you're an idiot, and I don't use that word very often. I was being sarcastic at how many circular logic chains there are here regarding "my team beat this team, but your team lost, so my team is better." Obviously, being an SEC fan, that type of humor would escape you because it didn't deal with Larry the Cable Guy or NASCAR or Jeff Foxworthy. (Apologies to Sas and any other SEC fan out there who has been cool the whole year.)"There's no way that any team that ________ deserves to play for the national championship." Yeah, well, fill in the blank. There isn't one team in the top 10 that doesn't have one (or more) chinks in their armor. More importantly, there's no way that a sports writer that barely broke 50% in his game picks deserves to be voting to select the 2 teams who will play in the national championship--which this year applies to the vast majority of sports writers. Where's a playoff when you really need one. :DHAWAII!!!!osu #1 and why is okl #2 the beat a #1 team twice (mizz) who only lost to okl (twice) so what if they lost way at the begining of the year,,
Okl beat #1 mizz (twice in one year)and beat'm bad
lsu beat #14 Tenn only by 7
how can lsu get three shots at the #1 spot when okl beat the #1 team yesterday and have the same record as lsu...sorry sec is not the greatest conf.. the are over rated..
osu vs okl NCG
but when all said and done
The Ohio St 35-lsu 18 NCG
okl you deserve to be in the ncg with the bucks..There only 4 conf out there that should be allowed in the NCG...
BTen,B12,P10 and the Sec,, all those others will never get in because of your weak conf..Just ask Hawaii who went 12-0 in the wac or Boise st last year is all about the big cash and all that stuff there will never be a playoff system....so if your not in one of those just forget about the ncg to play in ..thanks ncaa....looks like if your in sec conf you are in the best conf (overrated) because some of us get three chances to become#1 instead of someone who beat the #1 team yesterday and beat'm really bad with the same record as the same team who only beat the #14 team by 7 dosn't get a chance in the NCG sorry okl.. i guess your in the wrong conf to...LSU overrated,,,Netizen, I like your suggestion better than the BCS; of course, I'd like any kind of playoff better than the BCS. In fact, I'd like "nothing" better than the BCS... no, literally, I'd prefer doing nothing rather than doing something that has no hope of ever determining a true national champion. (I mean, really, does Ohio State deserve to be anywhere in the top 5? They're only where they are because they started the season at the top, and why? Because Ohio St teams from previous seasons have been strong. Wow! That's a really good reason for making a team #1 at the beginning of a new season... not. Anyway...) (1) 12 teams (at most) including all of the conference champs, with (at most) 4 play-in games immediately after the regular season; your seeding concept seems OK to me. (2) I think the Pac-10 and the Big Ten should always get first round byes so as to allow the Rose Bowl to continue their traditions unencumbered by any extraneous goings-on. (3) Reduce the regular season by 1 game to... oops, sorry, I forgot--those extra games were only added to generate more money for the schools... can't stop that money train... never mind, forget #3. :D
So, 11 conference champs (plus maybe an Independent? or another bye? whatever) -> Pac-10 & Big Ten get a pass to the Rose Bowl -> at most, 4 games on the first or second weekend of December (right after conference championship games by 1 or 2 weeks) -> 8 teams meet on Jan. 1st (or 2nd or 3rd or whenever) -> 4 teams advance to semis -> 2 teams advance to the national championship game in mid-January. Playoffs: more games with greater fan interest means even more "BIG MONEY!" for the schools and conferences (that win and advance :D). No more beauty contests controlled by biased "voters"--a national championship decided on the field... where it belongs... for all players on all teams in all conferences.The Book
Stewart Mandel's first book, Bowls, Polls and Tattered Souls: Tackling the Chaos and Controversy that Reign Over College Football, is available now. Click here to order your discounted copy.CommentsAll user comments must be approved by the moderator before being published. Due to time constraints, comments will only be published for the first several hours following a new post.More MandelRecent Posts
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