-
-
-
-
-
- CBB Front Page
- Scores
- Teams
-
Conferences
- Players
- Stats
- Standings
- Rankings
- Schedules
- Women's Hoops
-
-
-
-
- Soccer Front Page
-
Leagues
- MLS
- England
- Champions
UEFA Cup- English Champ
Germany- Italy
Spain- France
Netherlands- Scotland
Belgium- Mexico
Copa Lib- Copa Sud
Copa Oro- Copa America
World Cup- FIFA U-20
SI.com college football writer Stewart Mandel shares his commentary, analysis and random tidbits on the latest developments around the country.12/05/2007 05:59:00 PM Where Does Michigan Turn Post-Miles?
This week's Mailbag turned into an all-BCS edition, but there was at least one other newsworthy topic that generated plenty of questions like this one:
Did Michigan athletic director Bill Martin botch the Les Miles situation on purpose?Tony Ding/Icon SMI
Inquiring minds want to know: What the heck happened between Michigan and Les Miles? Was there ever really a "done deal?" Did LSU change his mind by backing the Brinks truck up to his door? Did Kirk Herbstreit's premature report on ESPN tick him off?
--John Blattner, Ann Arbor, Mich.
Media in both Michigan and Louisiana have been trying to figure out that very thing, and while I'm not sure we'll ever know the definitive answer, a couple of reporters have come awfully close. The two best "behind-the-scenes" accounts I've seen of what transpired last weekend have come from Baton Rouge-based Glenn Guilbeau of Gannett News Service and Detroit Free Press columnist Michael Rosenberg.
According to Rosenberg's Michigan sources, Miles still hoped to return to his alma mater right up until the 11th hour but had yet to receive assurances that he was definitely the Wolverines' guy. With LSU breathing down his neck to sign off on a lucrative contract extension (reportedly worth as much as $3.5 million annually, nearly double his current salary), Miles' "intermediaries" sought urgently for an answer -- but Michigan AD Bill Martin could not be reached. The sailing enthusiast was in Key Largo, Fla., where he maintains a residence by the Ocean Reef Club.
Martin told Ann Arbor News columnist Jim Carty this week that he received a message from Miles' agent, George Bass, last Thursday, but chose not to return the call until Sunday because, "I committed not to talk to Les Miles, directly or indirectly, before the championship game on Saturday. That's the way this process is done, or at least the way I'm honoring the process."
Obviously, by the time Martin called back, Miles had accepted LSU's offer.
Ever since that last bit of information leaked out, Wolverines diehards have been fuming -- and speculating. Did Martin really botch things that badly? Or, as many have suggested throughout, was there an anti-Miles faction at Michigan (most notably, Lloyd Carr) who persuaded Martin into backing off the LSU coach.
Either way, the fact is -- Michigan still needs a new coach. Soon. And so far there's no discernible sign that Martin had a definitive Plan B candidate.
Kirk Ferentz's name continues to pop up but he is not believed to be interested. Cincinnati's Brian Kelly seems an ideal choice, yet, for whatever reason, is not being considered (according to Rosenberg). Current coordinators Mike DeBord and Ron English interviewed for the job last week, but neither would be a popular choice. And names like Greg Schiano, Jeff Tedford and Rich Rodriguez are being thrown around, but there's no evidence any are actually legitimate.
So … who should Michigan hire?posted by Stewart Mandel | View comments |Comments:
If Michigan is serious about beating Ohio State on a regular basis, they should hire the one coach who is responsible for more Michigan wins over Ohio State over the past 20 years than anyone else (and who also happens to be available): John Cooper.Michigan should not hire anyone associated with Lloyd Carr's tenure as head coach. That means no Ron English, no Brady Hoke and NO MIKE DEBORD!
Chris Peterson is who they should be chasing, but it's too smart a move. In the end, Michigan will be forced to give the job to one of the assistants, and in two or three years, both Martin and the coach will have to be fired.
This whole process has been an embarrassment.I think they outta go after Barry Alvarez, if they can convince him to return to coaching.No wonder Michigan's football and basketball teams are terrible. The A.D. is off sailing and unreachable during the search for the head football coach.They should be going after either one of the following coaches.
1 Brian Kelly cincinati
the guy is a heck of a coach with a winning tradition everywhere
2 THE COACH FROM APPALACHIN STATE he was a 2 time defending national champ and took a team with a lot less talent and beat the number 5 team in the country at their home! imagine what he could do with michigan's talent and prestige
3 Bob Stoops, you would have to pay a little bit more for him than the other coaches, but boy does he know how to recruit and win some big games
However, if i was to pick, it would be either Appalachin State's coach or brian kelly
lets face it les miles has only been big for one year, lost two times as the number one team in the country, and has been very over rated. the only reason he was such a big name was because of his stance on Saban.
I for one am from michigan and love the fact that we don't have miles, he reminds me too much of Carr with his stubbornessThey should be going after either one of the following coaches.
1 Brian Kelly cincinati
the guy is a heck of a coach with a winning tradition everywhere
2 THE COACH FROM APPALACHIN STATE he was a 2 time defending national champ and took a team with a lot less talent and beat the number 5 team in the country at their home! imagine what he could do with michigan's talent and prestige
3 Bob Stoops, you would have to pay a little bit more for him than the other coaches, but boy does he know how to recruit and win some big games
However, if i was to pick, it would be either Appalachin State's coach or brian kelly
lets face it les miles has only been big for one year, lost two times as the number one team in the country, and has been very over rated. the only reason he was such a big name was because of his stance on Saban.
I for one am from michigan and love the fact that we don't have miles, he reminds me too much of Carr with his stubbornessThis is EXACTLY what I expected of those "arrogant bastards" (with tight purse strings)... and I'm a life long Wolverine fan (since Bo's first day).
Bill Martin... you're no Don Canham... too bad for Wolverine fans.I think we are seeing the results of a shift of power and prestige away from the Big Ten and Notre Dame. What should have been one of the most sought after positions in coaching will now go begging instead of having its pick. The elite positions in coaching now reside mostly in the SEC and Pac 10. What does surprise me are the traditionalists at Michigan who do not seem to want the best coach available, but the best coach with Michigan ties. That kind of inbreeding leads to mutations and Michigan's program is not far from that status. But these same traditionalists are the ones who place Illinois in the Rose Bowl and stand bwtween us and a playoff.Michigan needs to clean house. Get rid of Martin, get rid of all the assistants and start fresh w/ Brian Kelly. Go Blue! I am relieved though that we are not stuck with Les "Don't know the Xs and Os" Miles.Stewart,
Love your column and your book. Your thesis that no one runs the show in college football is the most coherent statement I have heard on that topic.
I have closely followed Brian Kelly's coaching career since his days at small college powerhouse Grand Valley (Michigan) State. At each of his stops (Grand Valley, Central Michigan and Cincinnati) he has been extraordinarily successful in very short amounts of time. As you mention in your book this is a key criterium for a "big time" college coach (see Meyers, Urban). However, at least according to published reports he seems to have little if any traction in the Michigan coaching search. What gives?
SteveMichigan needs a distinct change in personality.
Have not heard this name, but think it's exactly what Michigan needs: STEVE SPURRIER
I'm sure the thought is that Spurrier won't leave the SEC but isn't Michigan a huge step up?
And you can't tell me Spurrier's name and style combined with all that Michigan has to offer wouldn't immediately skyrocket the Wolverines' chances at a National Championship.
And what a perfect way for Spurrier to write the last chapter in an incredible football career.Bob Stoops? are you kidding me. Michigan is way to cheap to pay him more than he makes at OU. He is over $3.5M.I don't get Michigan fans. They haven't gotten the memo that this isn't the 1940's and players don't pick schools based on tradition anymore. Who would go freeze their butt off at Michigan when they could play at Florida or USC? Michigan is not a top 5 or even a top 10 program anymore - sorry to break it to you.Being a die hard Notre Dame fan i understand the search for a coach that should not be hard. We were spurned by Urban Myer before Charlie came to town. Now might be a time for a drastic change. I would say someone like Turner Gill from Buffalo or a Brian Kelly of Cincinatti would be great. Both bring enthusiasm and Brian Kelly is just flat out a winner. Look at OSU Big Blue fans they went to 1AA for Tressel and he has been nothing short of great for them. So a lesser known coach doesn't mean lesser ability. Time to take a chance.Hey Michigan fans, you should take Bill Callahan! He's available! HAHAHAHAH!!! Sorry, that was mean.A high profile guy like Bob Davie would be a great fit at Michigan - it's time for him to leave broadcasting and return to coaching.At this point they might as well do something crazy. Blow away everyone's expectations by throwing a ton of money at Joe Paterno. I mean, his salary ended up being what... half a million? I'd quadruple it.Who cares?
Whoever they bring in will still lose to Ohio State and then lose their mediocre bowl game.I agree with Jerry on this one. I think Michigan is making a big mistake by tying their ego to whomever they get to coach for them. Don't you get the sense that they are bandying about the names of Urban Meyer and Bob Stoops out of ego? Even if Michigan would pay them as much as they currently make, Michigan is no longer on par with those programs in terms of job prestige.Herbstreit's Source inside the UM coaching source: Desmond Howard.
Next Michigan Coach: Lester Miles.Alright I am vexed up with this Miles-Carr drift talk. what exactly happened between them to make Carr detest Miles? Did they get into a bar fight? Miles stole Carr's girlfreind? or did he give him a wedgie? somebody enlighten me.I think John is right. More and more, skill players are choosing to migrate to, or stay in, the South. Tradition does still count for something, but often only if a player is spurned by the southern schools first. Ohio St has been the exception, but even they are slipping (as LSU will show this year, and USC will confirm in September).There should only be 2 candidates for the this position: Boise State's Chris Peterson or Cincinnati's Brian Kelly. Either 1 of them would turn this program around quick and would defeat OSU year after year.1) Kelly made comments that were either careless or borderline racially insensitive when an incident involving his players occurred at Central Michigan. That was one reason he wasn't considered more strongly for the Michigan State job.
2) Kelly replaced Mike DeBord and succeeded at CMU. DeBord had to return to Michigan with his tail between his legs. DeBord and Carr are good friends and that probably doesn't sit well in Ann Arbor.Why is Kansas' coach, Mangino (?) not in the mix. He was a winner at Toledo and now a winner at Kansas. I know KU played a weak schedule, but they used to get the carp kicked out of them by those weak opponents. Give ole Mangino a chance. Fat guys no how to coach, btw.
Also, whoever posted that comment about bob davie being hired should be shot. Unless that is you bobbie, in which case, I think you should. That way Notre Dame and Ohio State will beat Michigan every year.Les Miles will be the coach at Michigan. Period. Why? Because he will not sign his contract until after the National Championship Game. Think about it folks.Word from the midwest was that Michigan might make a run at MU's Gary Pinkel, although I don't know if that would fly in Michigan, with him being from Ohio and all . . .This same type of thing happened at Nebraska a few years ago and it turned into a nightmare for the program. Pederson fired Solich and wanted a big name and he made public announcements about the offers being made and then the coaches turned them down. A total embarassment. The search took about 40 days to complete when it was all said and done.
After Pederson made a fool of himself and the State of Nebraska, he hired a big name that turned out to be an even bigger mess. Fortunately, both Callahan and Pederson are gone and the Huskers have the wheels in motion again, but it tooks a lot of blood, sweat and tears.
The AD at Michigan appears to be making the same mistakes. Programs like this don't tolerate humiliation and he will be fired soon if he keeps it up.
Who goes on vacation in this scenario? Maybe Pitt has an Associate AD position open?I'll give everyone a name: Bill Cowher.
He thrives on smash-mouth football, which is perfect for the Big 10.
He has children nearing college age, and Michigan offers one of the world's best university educations.
Perfect fit.This post has been removed by the author.Craig, you just beat me. Pinkel is from almost the exact same place as Bo Schembechler.spurrier would NEVER consider michigan. he's happy in the sec, kind of. at florida it was win at all costs. now at south carolina, he's bitc*ing about HIGH admission standards...LOL. he'd have a tough time at michigan
miles would be a fool to leave lsu, i mean where else (except aburn)in america can you finish high school, run a 4.3 40, read at the 8th grade level, and barely speak english and get into college??? LSUMandel, you're smarter than this. I don't see how this changes anything, Miles still has a $1.25M buyout if he leaves for UM. He had a contract before, and he has a new one. What exactly has changed?It's not in the SEC, so in all frankness, no one really cares.
Go Appalachian State!Rodriguez from West Virginia might be interested ... after all Slaton and White will probably leave this year. West Virginia will be so depleted, and they play in a week conference that gets little respect. Whereas, Michigan also plays in a weak conference, where they basically have a 50% chance of winning every year (Ohio State: 45%; and Penn State: 5% chance). Despite the conferences mediocrity, it has been getting at least two teams in a bcs game each year. It sounds like a sweet deal to me.sorry michigan has a 45% chance of winning the conference; ohio state 45% chance; and the rest of the conference a 10% chance of winning.Don't know where people are coming up with all this talk about "shifts", but I think players go to schools with strong reputations, and not only the past and the present but also the future factor into that as well. I think most people would agree that swings do occur in conference strength, so right now it might be (data would help) there could be more of a shift to southern states but frankly I don't think the weather makes that much of a difference...I think it's much more about the coach, the ability to play, the quality of team mates, likely TV time, etc. I think this season was probably somewhat of a low point for the Big 10, and I think you'll see a shift back. There are fast players all over (sorry, Florida, you're not the only state with speed) and they're going to go all over.Chris Peterson should be the next Head Coach at Michigan. Michigan's recent marginality is due to conservative play calling and the inability to adjust the game plan during play. Peterson has the youth (an undermentioned quality), experience, and proven ability to win and, more importantly, beat Ohio State for many years to come.
Honestly, can you imagine the renewed excitement in Michigan football if Michigan even attempted to run the Statue of Liberty play?I just like to say that Les Miles is not going to leave and we beat Ohio. Something Michigan can't do. LSU coach Les Miles has signed a contract extension that will keep him with the Tigers through 2012!!!Brian Kelly (the next Urban Meyer)...Kelly turned Grand Valley into the team to beat every year in division 2...then turned around a perenial loser in central michigan in 3 years...led Cincy to a solid year in his 1st year there...sounds similar to Bowling Green and Utah and even better considering the Grand Valley storyThe Big Ten is not only relevant, but the fact that so many of you spend time and effort compaining shows that it is IN THE FOREFRONT of most fans' minds. You think Illinois is irrelevant when Ron Zook has a top five recruiting class? Or Ohio State when they've played in two national championship games in a row? Or Michigan when they keep playing in big bowl games? I'll go on the record and say that the uber-athlete cares less about winning today than they do about TV exposure and draft position and things like that. Let's face it, college sports are a business, and Michigan is a well funded program. Turn on national TV for a Big Ten game, and more than likely, it's UM or OSU. Turn on the SEC and it could be anyone. Think a top flight athlete cares about the SEC or Pac-10 or Big Ten? The NFL draft numbers say otherwise, as all the major conferences are well represented.
So, my point is that a potential coach is going to have all the resources available to any top tier coach. I wouldn't be suprised in the least to STILL see Les Miles sign with UM a la Nick Saban after the NC game. After all, he only said that he would be coaching LSU "next year," and I'm pretty certain that January 7th counts as "next year." Extensions mean crap...remember how you got Les Miles in the first place LSU?I can't believe sombody thinks Spurrier would go to Michigan or anywhere in the Big Ten for that matter...and just when did Michigan become "like a big step-up" from the SEC? You're kidding me with that comment right? Honey, please let your daddy post from now on.Um ... as I recall Ohio State and Michigan were throughly beaten by Florid and USC, respectively in bowl games. If Ohio State played in the SEC or PAC-10, they would be a middle of the pack team. Michigan would be near the bottom-middle. The Big Ten is soft, and probably the fourth or fifth best conference of all the conference. (1. SEC; 2. PAC-10, 3. Big 12, 4 (t).ACC and Big Ten; 5. Big East).Um ... as I recall Ohio State and Michigan were throughly beaten by Florid and USC, respectively in bowl games. If Ohio State played in the SEC or PAC-10, they would be a middle of the pack team. Michigan would be near the bottom-middle. The Big Ten is soft, and probably the fourth or fifth best conference of all the conference. (1. SEC; 2. PAC-10, 3. Big 12, 4 (t).ACC and Big Ten; 5. Big East).Ron Zook was also a top recruiter at Florida, but he couldn't match wits with the SEC crowd. Perhaps Illinois people think he will do better given the level of coaching in the Big Ten but he can't match Tressel.I thought from the beginning that if Michigan COULDN'T get Les Miles-who seemed like the perfect "Michigan" candidate-they should start fresh and go after Rich Rodreguez. He clearly knows how to run an offense (sorry DeBord, but you don't) and either Ron English or RR's choice can run a defense.for Brendan - I disagree about OSU being in the middle of the pack anywhere. They stand even with everyone but USC in the Pac 10, and except for LSU, Fla, Aub and Georgia they would be okay in the SEC. I think they would generally dominate in the ACC, Big East and Big 12, at least until Stoops and Brown get their teams going.Why would Bob Stoops go to Michigan? Oklahoma has won more games than anyone in the country since WWII. It is a much better job than that joke of program Michigan. Why dont you ask for Bill Belicheck and Pete Caroll while you are at it.Spurrier won't come north. Not because of a step down or a step up in prestige (Michigan would be a step up from South Carolina, you're a moron if you think otherwise), but because it's too cold to play golf up here in a fair chunk of the offseason and for much of the actual season for off-day golfing.
As long as the Big Ten and the SEC have the best television contracts of the conferences (and there can be no dispute that they do -- they are the only conferences with a GUARANTEED nationally televised conference game on Saturdays and not just regional coverage), the premier programs of those conferences are going to have excellent recruiting classes. Michigan is one of those programs in the Big Ten. They have no problem drawing guys from the south, especially Texas, as well as California.
I really wish they'd consider Brian Kelly, but the athletic department seems bound and determined to NOT hire anyone that the alumni actually would be excited about as coach, and keeps floating some names that will send the alumni into an absolute rage should they be hired."Step-up" from South Carolina...yes...but to clarify when we generalize the SEC we don't really mean the South Carolinas and Vanderbilts.BTW...does anybody seriously think Ohio State has a chance in that title game...for real?Top to bottom the Big Ten is a weaker conference than the PAC, ACC, Big 12 and SECYour AD is dragging his feet with no candidate in sight? Your program is steeped in tradition but has fallen a bit short in recent years? Who you gonna call?...Bill Callahan of course! Cosgrove and the West Coast offense can destroy all that is good about the Wolverine tradition even quicker than he did at Nebraska. Bring on Coach Cal!You guys are right about one thing: the Michigan search is starting to stink just like Pederson's did at Nebraska. Get ready to start losing to Minnesota on a regular basis . . . . .Michigan should hire Ty Willingham. Willingham made Stanford a power, was not given a chance at Notre Dame, and inherited a sub-par program at Washington. If Ty could be given the proper tools at Michigan, I bet the Wolverines would be better. Besides, who wouldn't want to see Ty beat up on Notre Dame every year.for Brendan - That's a point well taken. Notre Dame does have the best TV contract. It's just no one wants to watch them.for fusballer - OSU does have a chance against LSU, but I think Stew was wrong about the long national nightmare being over. For OSU there is the nightmare that LSU might do unto them what Florida did. And for the rest of us there is the nightmare of having to hear another year of how the 51 day layoff ruined OSU. I'm an SEC fan, but a part of me wants OSU to win just so I'll be spared that.What is with all this hate steered at Michigan? Not the prestige program it once was? Are you kidding me? The problem with Michigan hasn't been talent, its been coaching. Their coaching has been absolutely terrible over the last few years.
Give a coach like Kelly the chance at a big time program and UM will be dominate again.
Players spurning the North because its too cold? Huh? Last I checked it wasn't 30 below 0 in October. ND has the #1 recruiting class for 2008. Players want to go where they are going to be able to play, and right away. Its all about exposure. They want to be seen, they want the big payout from the NFL if they get to that point.
Michigan with a new non-Michigan tied coach will steam roll the national scene. Comparing a team like USC vs Michigan is a fair comparison, because they do the same things. Run, Pass and play solid "D".
If they hire within the Michigan family, again, they will be doomed to mediocrity, again.Bob Stoops. Please hire Bob Stoops. He is a Big 10 guy. Loves it up there.
From the first day he would call out OSU, boldly predict a win, and deliver.
Big Game Bob in The Big House. Perfect. Well, that and he is the best football coach in America.Who cares where Michigan goes for a coach? They are irrelevant for a long time now. A dying dinosaur.
In fact if the Zookster hadn't come up there and sparked some serious competition it would be a dying conference.
Charles I can't believe you said Zook can't match Tressel. I believe he not only matched him in their game, but trumped him I believe.
Spurrier is not going, Les Miles may if they offer enough money-he does have strong ties to that region, Bill Kelly - OK he would be a risk for a major program to take but may prove the right choice in the long run.
Don't think Martin was on Vacation and out of the loop at Ocean Reef. Been there many times and can tell you it is unbelievable the number of heavy hitters concentrated in one place. Major players in almost every house.
If any deal brokering was getting done it was while he was holed up there.
Go SEC! Lets see 9 wins in the bowls this year!for Mike - Stoops is one of the best big game coaches, but has difficulty motivating his teams when they play the likes of TCU or Boise St.Once again, for all you SEC punks that just don't get it...this thread was about the UM coaching vacancy, and had nothing to do with the impending LSU-OSU game. Although when you're an SEC fan, apparently the one brain cell that you all share between you can only focus on "we good - you bad."
When the likes of one of your conference championship participants has lost three games by three touchdowns this year, that ain't so good. Especially when one of those games was away from the south (*gasp* - an SEC team that played an away game) and you were just absolutely pummeled.
And, Charles, since you're the one that can't seem to get off this topic...most OSU fans I know indicate that the 51 day layoff had an impact on the game, not that it was the deciding factor. Most OSU fans will point to the loss of Ginn allowing LSU to blitz at will as the "deciding" factor...but can we please move on? Seriously. It just makes you and the rest of the SEC fans sound desperate and mentally challenged that you have to hang on to last year. And, for someone as smart as you are, I'm terribly disappointed that you can't be more original with your postings or even focus on the topic at hand.
Now...as for the topic at hand...unless I'm missing something here, the Big Ten seems to do pretty well with exposure and revenue. UM will get a big time coach, and I still wouldn't be surprised if it's Miles. Notice that the media has left out any mention of a UM buyout clause (or lack thereof)? Makes you wonder, and just a little bit anxious, don't it Tigres fans?
Finally...Zook got screwed. Fans wanted another Spurrier, and were pissed that they didn't get that. Let's see Urban Meyer keep having seasons like this one (reminiscent of Zook UF fans???) and we'll see how long the bandwagon lasts.it is going to be hard for michigan to hire a great coach because who would want to take that job knowing they have to face a jim tressel led buckeyes team the last game of the season every year....It's too much pressure to put on anybody...They may have to hire an nfl coach or somebody like the coach from boise st. or the defensive coordinator from virginia tech...Who ever they hire we'll be waiting for them.....GO BUCKS!!!Here's how it plays out... OSU beats LSU and privately all of the Michigan fans rejoice that they didn't get Miles because he can't beat Tressel either.sec rules
you are a retard...zook did beat tressel this year but lets not forget he sports a 1-2 record against tressel...stay in your own conferencealso les miles is 0-1 against tressel so far...osu beat oklahoma state with miles as head coach...he knows the pressure that will be placed on him to beat tressel if he goes to michigan...it was a smart move on the behalf of miles to stay at a much better lsu program than go to an over rated pre-historic team like michigan....in the words of terry glenn michigan is nothing...GO BUCKS!!!!The following was taken from secsportsfan.com - "Dec 07 Update I was contacted by a reader yesterday who asked what the SEC vs Big Ten record is over the past 5 years. The answer is that the Big Ten leads in head-to-head match-ups 8-7."How about Dennis Erickson? The guy has been at ASU for a year and he'll abandon any program for a buck- a good slut is what Michigan fans need!for bgault - Someone asked about OSU's chances against LSU. You seem to be suggesting that I report some violation of the rules instead of just offering my response.
Regarding Ginn - Yes you lost Ginn early in the game. And if OSU loses to LSU probably only a few OSU fans will mention the loss of Ginn as a deciding factor. But you OSU fans seem to conveniently forget that Florida lost its best defensive player late in the season.
I am sorry that someone as smart as I am can't be more original in my postings. But I have repeatedly been labeled as an idiot by OSU people and it apparently is difficult for me to rise above that. Please be understanding.for smb513 - You know more often than not I disagree with your conclusions. But you are a wealth of information. If we have a contest to name the person who lives and dies NCAA football you get my vote.Michigan should wipe the egg off their faces and go after another top notch coach...hey how about Jerry Moore from Appalachain State seems like he knows how to get a team up for a big game in big house. HA! 1, 475 days and counting you dirty vermin!If its one thing Michigan likes more than coaches with affiliation to Michigan, its coaches that are affiliated with Ohio State thats are "Traitors" therefore expect UM to inquire with Mark Dantonio (gave them a run with MS) or Urban Myer (Out coaches tresell last year),for Bob - STRIKE ONE - It is a home game for LSU. STRIKE TWO - OSU faces the dreaded 51 day layoff again. STRIKE THREE - OSU faces a curse placed on it by a Cajun lady 100 years ago that they would never beat an SEC team in a bowl until they admitted they were beaten by a better team.
All things considered, OSU is toast.for Charles, I'm not an OSU fan. But I wouldn't bet against Tressel in an underdog role. The guy can coach and I think he's head and shoulders above Miles.Brian Kelly not being considered is UNFATHOMABLE, if that is indeed true. Sounds like UM needs a good AD like Steve Pederson, LOL!
Les Miles is overrated as a coach, but would've been a good choice but let's see how LSU responds next season without Pellini. I have a feeling their defense is going to fall off even further. Kind of humorous how this article reports that Miles was peeved because he didn't get the offer before the SEC Championship Game but yet he insisted his focus was on his kids and that game at the press conference where he was allegedly angry at Herbstreit over his claims that Miles was gone to Ann Arbor. He's lied before when he bolted Stillwater for Baton Rouge.
Why don't these coaches just fess up, if I were a recruit I would respect a coach more for being honest than pulling a Saban (or I suppose you can call it a Miles)?! = Dfor Bob - I would agree that one should not bet much against Tressel. I do wonder if he has fully caught up with SEC speed and spread offenses though. It should be an interesting game. I would love to see a four team playoff with USC and Florida added into the mix.Maybe Slick Rick Neuheisal or Jim Mora???Ron Zook was also a top recruiter at Florida, but he couldn't match wits with the SEC crowd. Perhaps Illinois people think he will do better given the level of coaching in the Big Ten but he can't match Tressel. -- Charles
I suppose that 28-21 win by Illinois was a figment of our imaginations, LOL, or you have some serious short-term memory issues?!
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/ncaa/recaps/2007/11/10/35999_recap.htmlFood for thought: UM bases its very football existence on harvesting Ohio's abundant crop of top-grade football talent, including it's coaches (dating clear back to Fielding Yost, whose coaching career started at Ohio Wesleyan, and continuing through Ohio native and Woody Hayes protege Bo Schembechler, who himself owned 5 golden pants - I think - from his days coaching at OSU), and its players (including UM Heisman winners Charles Woodson and Desmon Howard, along with at least 50% of its team every year).
The Ten Year War was a momentous and memorable time, so what better course for UM than to resurrect The War after a humiliating string of losses to OSU, by hiring Mark Dantonio, himself an Ohio native and protege of Jim Tressel (who is after all the quintessential Wolverine slayer in the best tradition of Woody Hayes). Dantonio has acquitted himself well at Cincinnati and MSU, turning both programs around. He is deserving of a shot at the big time, and would lend a sense of destiny and tradition to a UM team that is struggling to find itself.
BTW Wolverine fans, Buckeyes don't resent or hate UM for the fact that Michigan needs Ohio talent (as claimed in the HBO documentary by an obviously delusioned UM fan), we revel in it, because we know you couldn't stand on your own without our support. It gives us great pride to know that only Ohio greatness can compete with Ohio greatness. Go Bucks!
SEC fans, you'll get your chance to blather about your greatness next January. One has to wonder whether you would even have anything to brag about if you had to come up here and play a bowl game away from home - gasp - perish the thought - you would have crumpled like a paper Tiger in the conditions of the Snow Bowl of '50.Charles, you are the most relentless troll ever. I can't believe you haven't been banned yet.
The World Seen Through Charles's Eyes:
The Bible
-All the best Bibles are made in SEC country. Midwestern Bibles are of low quality and take too long to read.
Conflict in the Middle East
-Israel is like the SEC. The Palestinians are too slow and unathletic.
Charles
-Charles is wonderful, just like the SEC. People who don't get how great Charles is are like Big Ten athletes: slow.doesn't matter who they hire at michigan, he's gonna be calling Charlie Weis and the Irish "daddy" for years to come. bad year this year, but Jimmy Clausen will be a hell of a baller for years to come. Go Irish!The Big Ten was 2-1 vs. the SEC in last season's bowl games.
The Big Ten is 8-6 vs. the SEC in bowl games over the last five years
The Big Ten is 13-13 vs. the SEC in bowl games over the last decade.
In the last 10 years the Big Ten has produced two national champions compared to three for the SEC.
In the last 15 years the Big Ten has produced five Heisman Trophy winners, more than any other conference. Over that same time span, the SEC has claimed one Heisman.
The Big Ten has slightly less than 300 players in the NFL while the SEC has slightly more than 300 (with one more team); Sixteen former Big Ten players earned Super Bowl rings with the Indianapolis Colts earlier this month.What about Greg Mattison. He was the brilliant defense coordinator who built the 1997 Defense. Unfortunately, at the end of 1996 Mattison left U of M for Notre Dame. The guys talented and understands what the Wolverine Nation expects in a head coach.Scarcasm, stupidity and superiority complexes run rampant here. It's amazing how a discussion about the Michigan coaching job can so quickly devolve into that tired old debate about which conference is best.
Division I schools suit 70-odd players and maybe 15 have NFL prospects. For most of these student athletes college is the end of their playing careers.
Michigan still matters. The Big House seats 100,000, and it still hosts marquee teams whatever their records at the time. Many 18-year-olds would gladly sign-up for televised games against a Notre Dame or an Ohio State or an Oregon or a Penn State before a huge crowd.
Tradition matters. Some may think the SEC has perfected football, but Michigan has been playing since 1878 and holds the record for the most wins at 868. It has more Big Ten titles than anyone (42 to Ohio State's 32). In any given year one (perhaps 2) team(s) win(s) a national championship, so its unrealistic to hope for that, but a student that wants to attend a school with an expectation of winning and prospects for a conference championship and with it a trip to a Rose Bowl or better will always find Michigan attractive.
A student that chooses a school for its weather is in more desparate need of an education that he realizes.
The coach matters. These are 18-, 19-, and 20-year-olds. These are kids that want to be led and to learn from someone who knows and loves the game. Their parents want to know the coach runs a program that will take care of them (i.e., keep them out of trouble).
Any coach that has demonsrated success as a coach, as a teacher, as a leader; any coach that respects and embraces tradition, and commits to continuing that tradition; and any coach that respects the fact that most of his players' playing careers will end at college, and works to give them a rich and rewarding experience, can succeed at Michigan.
I say this as a Buckeye that wants Michigan to be successful every day except the third Saturday in November.For all those pointing out that Zook's team defeated Tressel's OSU. There are several great coaches who have beaten Tressel. Lloyd Carr comes to mind.Charles:
Glenn Mason has also defeated Tressel. Where's he today? What's you point? And how does it possibly apply to a discussion about the Michigan job?OSU's only a five point 'dog IN THE SUPERDOME. We've got the number one defense in the country. This is Jim Tressel's third BCS Championship Game in five years and he's coaching against Les "Psycho" Miles who just signed a contract for 3.45 mil per. I like our chances.Netizen:
Great post, and great thoughts. What you describe is what the college experience is all about, and you're right, Michigan still matters. Big time. World-class university, great traditions, and they're going to be scaring people again here in a couple of years...mark my words. I'm also with you in that I'm a UM fan except for the third weekend in November! And pardon me, but if I was a coach the LAST thing I'd want is a player that decides where to go based on how warm it is. Give me a break...
I personally never thought Miles was the right guy, but in any case I'm confident they'll find a great person to lead that program back to glory.
By the way, you geniuses just keep talking about how last year predicts this year, etc. Don't think Tressel and the team learned a major lesson, or that OSU will learn more from LSU game films than LSU will learn from OSU's, or that OSU has an amazing O-line...oh yeah, how could we possibly hold back Dorsey??? Or that we love the underdog role...or that we'll have something to prove. Go right ahead (the bottomless SEC kool aid container never ceases to amaze me). The Big 10 is going to do just fine this year, boys.The first thing that should happen is that Michigan should fire Bill Martin. Then allow a new, competent, AD conduct the coaching search.
Bill Martin will destroy the Michigan program, not an easy feat.SEC fans, like most from the South, are too provincial to realize the BIG 10 is legit. Look at the NFL and you can readily see all the stars who have come from that elite conference. Oh, and by the way, Tressel won't let the press clippings get in the way this year and will proceed to put an old fashioned butt whupping on LSU. Y'all can take that to the bank!They could use WV coach RichRod..he coaches players up so well...he'd be hard to beat up there.I agree, as a long-time UM fan, that the bloom is off the rose. They need a big time ad! The key to finding a new coach is to look for a quality def coord or off coord. I like Brent Venerable the dc at Oklahoma. I also like Brian Kelly. If you're going out west Steve Sarkisian @ USC is a thought. You need to look past beating OSU. If you have the right staff in place the recruits will come and so will the victories.NETIZEN: Excellent post. It shows us the class that is both Ohio State and Michigan, as well as the Big Ten. And tht comes from a University of Texas alum.
Now, I haven't heard his name mentioned at all, but someone who I think is a class act and a great recruiter and coach, and who would be a perfect fit for Michigan is Ron Zook. He won a National Championship at Florida in absentia. His recruits did it for him. Take a look at him, Michigan. You might find a great coach in the waiting.MICHIGAN SHOULD HIRE PETE CARROLL. HARBAUGH SAID EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT CARROLL IS READY TO MOVE ON FROM USC, AND WHAT BETTER JOB THAN MICHIGAN.for Netizen - My point was that beating Tressel once did not prove Zook had what it takes to challenge him every game. We look at Tressel and we don't go back to one, two or a few games. We look at a body of work. It seems silly to point out to you that Zook's body of work falls far short of Tressel. Meyer won with most of the players that Zook was fired for losing with. I'm not sure I even blame Tressel for the Florida fiasco. It was the press as you recall that labeled OSU as invincible. I'm willing to bet Tressel never bought into that theory, but maybe I am wrong.
Perhaps you are prepared to put Zook on the same platform with Tressel, and perhaps you would also put Illinois on the same platform with OSU. But it is going to take a lot more for me to do that. I even think Meyer at Florida has a few things left to accomplish before he gets named with Tressel, Carroll and Brown.
This is a forum for an exchange of information and opinions and I fail to see why you would find any of the opinions I listed above as so threatening. Perhaps you can explain that.Say what you will about our coach, Michigan fan. The fact is we're about to play for the national championship and you're not even in a BCS bowl (enjoy your 2nd tier bowl game). Have fun searching for your coach. We're more than happy to have Les for years to come. Geaux Tigers!It really doesn't matter who. tOSU will still have their number as long as Tressel is at the helm at their rival school.Just a guess, but I bet almost all these posts are by people under 25 years old. You have zero historical persepective. Short college football lesson: 1950's - dominated by Oklahoma, won over 50 straight games. Big Ten was on the rise as we entered the 60's - great Michigan State teams, peaking with 1966 vs a great Notre Dame team. ND had several hot years in the early 60's. Out west, USC, UCLA an occasional Washington team made the Rose Bowl. In the south, Alabama had Bear Bryant, Joe Namath, won national titles. From 1965-69 MIchigan was a disaster. Then they got Schembechler - why? He was Woody Hayes' protege. UM hired an Ohio State guy! - to beat the master. Which he did his first year, 1969, when Ohio State was undefeated and defending national champs. It changed eveything to UM's favor in the Big Ten until Jim Tressel showed up. 1970's? Teams from all over had their moments - even Stanford!!! with Jim Plunkett won a Rose Bowl. In the south, everybody rose and fell - LSU had some good teams in the 60's into the 70's then bottomed out. Nebraska was a king from the 70's into the 80's. The 90's - people forget, from 95 to 2000, USC was a catastrophe. Remember Ted Tollner? The USC got a new coach - what's his name, the good recruiter? Along came all the Florida schools in the late 80'. Believe me, until then, nobody would waste time on Miami. Back then, they were like today's Bowling Green. Here's a little note: In the 80's and 90's Penn State was huge, won national titles. They joined the (weak) Big Ten, what happened? Have they even beat Michigan once in the last ten years. Ok - so here's the point: college football, like any other sport has its cycles and its rhythms. You're up, you're down, the coach is a Golden Prince, and then he's an Old Dog. Today's Barry Alvarez is tommorrow's Bill Callahan. The SEC is hot now, forty years ago they were Alabama and 9 nobodies. What goes around, comes around. Hey, who knows, next year's title game may be Michigan vs. Oregon State. Just wait - if it can happen, it will.With a James Carville-like SEC superiority complex, and needing to speak cute french (french?) phrases just to tout their football team, Tiger fans are Johnny-come-latelies to the big time, with attitudes that are just begging for humiliation. See Michelle's post for perspective. With a recent national championship under their belts, you only need to look back a few years to see what a tough Big Ten team can do to a "faster" team. Forget last year. I guarantee you that it will be easy after January 2008.
David, LSU is lucky to still have Miles. If it weren't for an apparent case of miscommunication, he would have left for a better school. Catch UM in a couple years when they're back on their feet.
Zook and a spread offense at UM? Wouldn't that turn the NCAA football world upside down! Maybe that's what they need to turn the page! I still think Dantonio is a perfect fit for many reasons.Yeah I understand the ups and downs of college football. That does not mean that Michigan should allow a terrible AD to select a terrible coach based on blind loyalty to the Carr era. The legacy and tradition at this school is what keeps it afloat, and Michigan needs to protect that winning tradition dearly. Consider the Notre Dame debacle right now.
Michigan would have been a force to contend with if it had Miles and his coaching staff.
Now Michigan needs to look outside its own program for a coach. Debord has a terrible track record wherever he goes and should not be a candidate. It needs an AD who will actually aggressively search for the best coach available, not someone who simply has strong Michigan ties.
Bill Martin needs to be replaced since he cannot handle this much responsibility.Stew, thanks for the links from Michigan and Louisiana on the Les Miles story. Very interesting contrast between the perspectives and "facts" indicated in each. While you chose the Michigan spin, I'm not quite so sure that the Gannett papers didn't actually have it right.
I don't see Les Miles going to Michigan. Not because of $ . . actually SI reports that basic salary really hasn't changed but monetary incentives for a national champtionship and academic excellence among players have. I don't think Les is going to go there.
Who should be Michigan's next coach? I would not presume to know what is best for them . . but I do think if they continue with the need for a "Michigan Man" as main (or sole) criteria they will severely restrict the pool of applicants who should be considered and who might serve them well. A previous poster beat me to the Ron Zook suggestion. Dennis Erickson. Mike Belotti. NORM CHOW, for god's sake . . why is he never mentioned? Brent Venables of OU. Paul Johnson. Jimbo Fisher. Skip Holtz (Lou's son). These, and more should be considered against the criteria of football, academics, and tradition (the latter with a small t). I
It is Michigan's call, of course, and I hope they get a good one.
Sasfor Larry - Last year doesn't predict this year, but historical perspectives are often interesting and educational. I read that Tressel won't make the same mistakes with LSU that he made with Fla, but I am not sure Tressel made any mistakes in preparing for Fla. I imagine after beating Miami in an NC he probably used the same approach with Fla, but improved it based on what he hadlearned. Does anyone really think he slacked off and wondered if Fla would even show up? According to the announcers OSU was sharp in practice whereas Fla was not. Troy Smith missed very few practices and spoke of how the entire OSU was focused on completing their mission. I suspect Tressel had more than a little to do with that.
There are many interesting parallels between last year and this year. LSU struggled most of the season as Fla did the year before. OSU had few difficulties this year and none the year before.
With last year as a backdrop it will be interesting to see how much if any of the parallels lead to the same results. Will Fla's spread offence haunt Michigan? Will GA have the same kind of trouble focusing on Hawaii as OK did with Boise St? And then there is the new that may have some bearing on next year's decisions. Will Kansas finally gain some respect and beat a team that received some Top 25 votes? Will the results of the Rose Bowl encourage that committee to go after the best match next time instead of the next best Big Ten team? I find it fascinating.Yer right, SasQuatch. Michigan's better coaches have never come from a Michigan tradition (Carr only succeeded against OSU because Cooper didn't believe in The Rivalry, and his national championship team was recruited by another). Going after UM-connected coaches would definitely limit their choices and block top-tier candidates from consideration.
Besides Miles, who plainly made himself available to UM, is there another coach of that caliber that is openly up for grabs? A young coach with zeal and optimism and no fear of change is what's needed. I have confidence that UM will come up with one, but they may need another AD before it happens.Unbelievable. Carr giving advice on who should follow him. If anyone remembers, this is the same coach who blew two potential national championships during the Tom Brady era by constantly alternating Brady with Drew Henson. Brady won every regular season and every bowl game that he wasn't alternated with Henson. Then the awful John Navarre years when Carr should have alternated or removed Navarre completely, but chose to stay with him exclusively for 4 excruciatingly painful years. And now this. It's almost unbearable. An extremely weak ex_coach advising an extremely weak athletic director on who his replacement should be.I seem to remeber a few years back OSU was looking for a coach after Cooper got canned. A lot of names were bandied about but Jim Tressel was finally named. The pundits were appalled. They began discussing at great length how far OSU had fallen since they couldn't attract a first class coach. UofM might be fortunate enough to not attract a "first class" coach but perhaps find another Tressel. I hope so cause the Bucks could sure use some competition.HOW ABOUT JOHN L. SMITH FOR THE NEXT MICHIGAN COACH? I HEARD HE'S AVAILABLE...PROBABLY GET HIM CHEAP....Stewart, what's with the last answer in the mailbag? Basically you're making fun of the guy because of his name. It's either infantile or offensive.I've read that the Big Ten in general does not offer the same kinds of salaries for coaches as some of the other top confs. Does anyone know why Michigan alum, etc do not put Michigan in a position to offer a salary similar to other top coaches?I don't know how you can say michigan isn't a powerhouse any more, yes you have lots of athletes leaving to the south or staying in the south, but the notre dames and michigans have stuck to there standards, by just not allowing any idiot through there doors.Ok for all of those SEC fans who keep relieving the championship game from last year. OSU lost for one reason and one reason only, they started believing all of the hype. They thought that all they needed to do was show up and Florida would run away. Well we all know how that turned out. Now with that said, if the 2 teams (OSU & Florida) played 9 more times after that game OSU would have won 8, and possibly all 9 times. But the championship game is not played on a best of 10 format, you get one shot and OSU blew it.Charles:
You wrote:
I fail to see why you would find any of the opinions I listed above as so threatening.
Defensive much?
Classic projection. Because I was questionning the relevance of your Zook post I have to be threatened? Your opinions are so powerful I have to shudder in fear? I think you might be overcompensating just a little for a post you're not that confident in. Why else project that I'm threatened by it?
This is a shocking concept, I know, but you're entitled to any opinion you want, but I have no obligation to agree with it. In this case, I wasn't disagreeing with your opinion as much as questionning it's relevence.
Now, as for your post which started this thread: A victory against Tressel is no indicator of a coach's worth. If so, Les Miles, 0-1 vs. Tressel, is in trouble. In the end, however, what does that have to do with the Michigan job and who it should hire?Salary is a consideration, of course, but if it's a candidate's primary consideration I have one answer... Next!Jake2...
Did you bother to read my post? Florida was better that ONE day, I don;t see them headed back to the Championship again this year. And save the old they were rebuilding story, no one lost more skill players after last year than OSU. Let's see if Florida can do it long term before we start thumping our chests.....This is for Charles the great....
What information do you have to dispute what Tressel said about changing the way the Buckeyes prepare for the Championship game this year? For your information you are wrong about how they prepared last year, the arrived in Arizona 10 days before the game vs. 5 days when they played Miami in 2003. Troy Smith btwn. 10-14 days of practice due to the awards circuit. Florida was better prepared on that one day and it showed on the field.I'm not real sure why Big 10 fans have to respond with Commissioner Delaney's argument that "we lose because we are academically superior" (quote after Appalachian State loss by UM) but I'm sick of it.
What I can tell you from personal experience (which includes studying and teaching in every region) is that Mr. Delaney's sense of academic superiority is rivaled only by his (and Hansen of the PAC 10) view of the sand immediately surrounding his head. It is the same "head in sand" attitude that gave us this year's Rose Bowl (see excellent article here in SI by Austin Murphy).
There are two philosophies on academic standards. One is "we can't be good unless we have restrictive admission policies." Let's call that the "Ivy League Syndrome." The other is "we'll meet minimum NCAA standards, and hope to exceed them . . . but it is sink or swim." I like the latter, given notorious inability to predict academic success, ceteris paribus.
Don't take my word for it. Go with the "academic" (haha) Wikipedia and read the entry on "Academic Rankings" . . . ALL of it.
No . . any "idiot" who cannot read beyond 8th grade but who can run a 4.4 40 cannot get into LSU. That is tripe.
Now . . if you want to talk about "easy to get in but hard to succeed and graduate" . . I'm with you.
Off my soapbox . . . I am just sick of the portrayal of Big 10 as "academically superior." It's just not.
Geaux Tigres (that's french).
SasAs far as Mark Dantonio goes, that doesn't seem very likely at this point.
Dantonio's home is Michigan State, not Ohio State. That's why he was so excited to go back to East Lansing. He was part of the 1999 team that went 11-2 and beat Florida in the Citrus Bowl. Him leaving for U-M makes only slightly less sense than Tressel going there.
Also... as long as people are throwing around names like Ferentz, Dantonio, and.... omg.... Alvarez, when's the last time a coach left his team for a CONFERENCE OPPONENT in the next season?
Get real, people.Really people...what the hell does the NC game from last year have to do with who UM's new head coach will be? Are SEC fans so insecure that they feel an incessant need to remind themselves that they actually won the game? (Sas, you are like the only SEC fan who seems to have any sense of rational thought, so apologies)
I can see it now. Some SEC fan is pumping gas and they spontaneously shout out 41-14 Tourett's style. Is there really nothing going on in SEC land that's exciting to you about this year?
And, just a pet peeve of mine, but Florida won the NC last year, not the whole SEC. So if you're a Tennessee fan, or Arkansas, or whomever except for Florida...shut your pie hole, because your team didn't even play for the championship.
And, Les Miles = next coach of UM. Read the fine print for the buyout clause. No mention of it by the media at all.for bgault:
LOL! No apology necessary . . I agree! Last year was last year. Sheesh.
I don't think Les is going to Michigan. I really don't. The buyout is still there, by the way (see article referenced on SI College Football home page and other sources) but that is not the reason.
Surprising as it may seem, I think Les likes LSU. I also think UM ticked him off. Actually, I had him going to UM when this broke . . I did . . . but if my take is right Les is in Baton Rouge for a long time and that is a good thing.
Of course, I have been known to be wrong before!
Sasfor Nick - I have few details regarding how Tressel or Meyer prepared for the game.I just assumed that Tressel followed the approach that had worked against Miami. The OSU players acted and spoke as if they had made a serious effort. Troy Smith said he only missed three practices, and that others were equally dedicated. I heard the reviewers say OSU was sharp in practice while Fla was not. Nothing I heard suggested that Tressel fell short. Everything I heard pointed to Fla just being a much better tean. Some of you obviously know more details that I do.TDS Crew, the last time someone left one job for a conference opponent was, oh, a week and a half ago? One Houston Nutt switched schools in the SEC West.
But yeah, that's highly unusual. The Arkansas fans drove Nutt to leave, and he took a step down in program quality. That's not the case with the people that are being brought up in connection with Michigan. The only even plausible one was Ferentz, but Michigan's alumni would not have been overly thrilled with that hire, they'd have to make him the highest paid coach in the country in all likelihood and he isn't worth that money. I'm preparing for disappointment. It doesn't have to be a big name, but I have a feeling it's going to be a known coach who just isn't going to make anyone happy.Why is the conversation straying from "michigan's next coach" to "LSU is going to kick OSU's ass." I mean seriously guys, Michigan will find their man (or woman, anyone consider that, Ann Arbor is a liberal town) One things for sure, SEC, PAC-10, there is no best conference. Power shifts back and forth, theree is only strong evidence to support that. And btw, LSU has not faced men on the football field. In come the Buckeyes offensive line, and Beenie Wells. Oh, don't forget Gohlston........LSU, HA!!!!!!!! Go Buckeyes!!!!!!!I surely don't see Miles leaving for UM at this juncture. He will be in an ideal position at a great school with phenomenal recruiting possibilities as the only "big time" college in LA. I know that home is a big draw, but there is something to be said for success as well. UM, no matter who gets the job, will need some work to get it back to rights. Carr was a good coach for a while, but he spent too much time focusing on dignity and not enough coaching. I'm not saying that coaches shouldn't have scruples, (you listening, Nick?) but they sometimes have to make decisions between their way of doing things and what is best for their football team. That said, I hope UM finds a coach that can put them back in the position they want to be in.
BTW, I think the difference in the BCS championship is that LSU will not overlook OSU like OSU overlooked Florida last year. Sorry, I had to get my SEC shot in there... being an SEC fan and all.
GEAUX TIGERS!@Time:
Nah, we haven't faced men...
WE FACED GIANTS!!!
(really fast giants.)
Plain 'ole men will make it easy :)
Geaux Tigers!Michigan needs to get Schiano, Kelly, or the guy from Navy.
Whoever the poster that said Michigan is no longer a top 10 program is a joke, and obviously knows very little about college football.Sas:
Hey, looks like we got us a game! :)
I agree with you on the academic superiority thing; I personally don't say that and I'm in one of those academic settings...I can't imagine there's a substantive difference, that's for sure. One thing that IS interesting, however, is that universities sometimes take a leap of faith in raising admissions standards, which in the short term reduces admissions but in the longer term increases them due to quality.
But let's face it, the whole conference superiority thing is just plain silly. "AgedWhiteMale"s post was a good one, and shows the cyclical nature of this sport. The most headstrong, "our conference is king" people are likely the ones with the shortest/youngest memories. Thanks for the post, Aged.
And Charles, the big difference between preparing for the 2002 and 2006 games was that in 2002, everybody told us we were going to get hammered. In 2006, we thought it was going to be a good game but we felt very confident. I think any team that lost big the previous year (think Florida in what, the 90s to OU?) has a different take the next year. My last word on last year is this: IMO UF (and Leak) played their best game of the year, and OSU (and Smith) played their worst game of the year. OSU was way better than they played, but they didn't show up and got nailed for it. Kudos to Florida for doing what they needed to do...but I'm confident Tressel will have 'em ready this year.
BGault, you might be right about Miles, but I'm with Sas on this one...sure seems Miles has made a lot of commitments, both written and verbal, that at least to me would be really hard to back out on...but we'll see.
Sas, I also love the Norm Chow idea...really intriguing but they might be looking for more of a known "head coach" commodity...again, we'll see but I'm hopeful they'll get someone good there.
And hey, call me philosophical and touchy feely here, but remember folks, all this conference stuff aside, we live together and we're all, ultimately, on the same team. Don't know about you, but I love seeing players afterwards when they're a) smiling and talking with guys from the other team and b) when they're in the circle praying, etc. To me anyway, sportsmanship and honor and integrity are what it's all about.Nick, you beat me to the punch. Besides going in 10 days ahead of the game last year, Smith just being off the awards circuit, and the loss of Ginn early (remember him? the guy who burned Florida quick and easy on the first play of the game? Florida fans should thank him every day for the rest of their lives for getting hurt at the end of that play), the Buckeyes were overconfident. Smith himself said to Kirk Herbstreit on ESPN's Punt, Pass and Kick competition later on that someone on the team had talked up a big game but didn't produce. One can assume he was talking about the O-line, who let Florida run right through them.
In any case, Tressel is now 0-2 versus the last two spread offenses that he's faced, and you can bet he has learned some lessons. After all, he didn't win a national championship with only the air of authority that his sweater vest gives him! Starting with the fact that he is taking the team into N'Awlins only 5 days ahead of the game this time, instead of 10.
Go Bucks! (that's English)Nick, I made a joke because I thought you had to be joking...FL was clearly the better team last year, 100% of people around the country, and 99% of people from Ohio, realize that. You barely beat a Mich. team that got killed by USC. Then you got absolutely destroyed by FL.
I just don't get this "we would win 9 out of 10 times" baloney. You say that when you lose by one or two points...but if FL could do that to you on a good day, they'd still probably have beaten you by 2 TDs on a bad day.Jim: Need to keep up with the news. Les signed this AM
Joe: Why not make some intelligent comments instead of just sterotyping and slandering people that you can't compete with. Shame on youOh no, not again. Buckomatic - you got absolutely destroyed last year, get over it. You would have beaten FL 0 out of 10 times. You would have beaten USC 0 out of 10 times. Why is this so hard to accept? Maybe you're the best this year, we'll see, I don't care one way or the other, just want to see a good game (please not another blowout OSU?).Jake2 is a troll.There is only one reason that Les Miles inn't wearing a Michigan hat today. Michigan didn't want him. Les didn't turn them down, Michigan didn't offer him anything. If UM said come, Les would have gladly bailed on the SEC an paid LSU $1.25 Million.
No doubt this whole debacle looks bad for Michigan, but they will be fine. Not worried at all about OSU. Before this recent futility against them, Michigan's record against OSU was 12-3-1 from 1985-2000.
Bill Martin is not an idiot. He didn't call back Les' agent b/c he didn't want Les.SaSquatch said:
"Geaux Tigres (that's french)."
Go in French is Allez. So much for the education down south.Greg Schiano would be great choppin wood in Ann Arbor. His new stadium deal fell through at Rutgers, but he's done wonders with them.All the talk of conference powers is ridiculous. Bottom line...who cares about conferences, just means you root for a lame team and need the conference for a "pickmeup". I'm a Texas fan and root against OU and A&M pretty much every game they play. I laugh when they lose as they do when Texas loses. Only the Iowa State, OSU and Baylor fans say go Big XII!!! I put no stock in conference power ratings, etc. If your team takes care of its business, is a member of a BCS conference, you will be rewarded with a date in the NC game (unless you are Auburn, but who cares, they are second fiddle in their own state for crying out loud).
There is no clear favorite this year. LSU is probably the best team but who knows which D will show up...the suffocating D vs. VTech or the one that gave up big play after big play to a bad Kentucky team. OSU is untested, but deserve to go.
As for Michigan, you can have a couple coordinators from Texas as they have overstayed their welcome in Austin. No imagination in play calling.Schiano wants to move in to Beaver Stadium at State Park. I am fully prepared to be highly underwhelmed at this Michigan hiring.for Larry:
As always, I tend to agree with most of what you type. While I don't agree that higher academic standards guarentee success for any student (it takes teaching, teacher) I do agree with most everything else you say.
Particularly "we got a game." Yes! I think the two best teams were selected. We get smack for sure . . tOSU because it really has not been tested and nobody knows how good they are (THIS YEAR FOLKS) and LSU because of two 3 OT losses. I do think they are the "best teams" we could see barring playoffs.
I can't wait . . . hope you are here to blog when it happens.
Sas
PS: buckomatic . . good English! Actually . . . "Geaux Tigres" is "pigeon french" from Cajun Country.
That said . . .
Geaux Tigres!Word from the Detroit Free Press tonight is that Schiano just interviewed for the UM job and has plans to meet with Bill Martin again. Although Schiano may be holding out for Penn State, I can't imagine that he would pass up this opportunity if offered. Penn State and Michigan are both class organizations, unlike Miami which he nixed last year. It would be a shame though to see Rutgers fall back to the cellar if Schiano leaves.This could also just be a ploy by Schiano to get NJ to fork up the $30 million they promised for stadium renovations.Why would it be a shame? If a program can't sustain itself, well then it should go back to the cave where it attempted to crawl out of.Phork:
Actually, the correct use of "allez" is dependent on singular/plural and other considerations in true french. I learned that in Baton Rouge.
"Geaux Tigres" is a local colloquialism based on regional semantics. You may want to check it out with the Center for the Study of Linguistics at the University of North Dakota . . . I have, and they confirm it is appropriate.
Which, I guess, is why I have a purple and gold bumper sticker on my jeep which reads "Geaux Tigres." I think I have about 12 of them from a buying spree at the LSU bookstore. They do sell books, too, by the way.
How's it going for Notre Dame, Phork?
Got coach?
SasSas:
You noted that it was French. Not some American Bastardization of French. I was merely bringing it your attention.
And as for ND, I am happy that you would remember me from previous posts. Unfortunately I do not think we do "got coach". Possibly a facsimile thereof. I heard he won a Superbowl or something, not sure how that translates to college ball. Thanks for your concern however.for HailVictors: you can bet quite a few Buckeyes breathed a sigh of relief when Miles opted out on national TV. UM's loss. It's hard to imagine that with all the posturing, Carr telegraphing his retirement, Miles positioning for the job and LSU specifically penalizing him if he left for UM (even though UM would probably have paid the fee - or could that possibly be what the whole issue was about?), that Miles really didn't want to go or that UM really didn't want him.
And yeah, it's easy to pick a winning stretch and tout that as the standard. Why, until 1976, Woody was 16-8 against UM (and ended up 16-11). Bruce bested Bo, and Cooper is the only blemish since Woody took over. The only reason UM has the upper hand in the series is because they had a decided advantage at the beginning. With the arrival of Woody and the modern post-WWII era, OSU is 29-26-2 vs. UM. Now that's pretty close. I would never claim OSU superiority over UM, just that we have a better coach at the moment. And all of the best players (even though some of them play for the wrong team).oops. . should have left a "pas" in that quote.
Gotta be my cajun french . . .Every time I read Geaux Tigers I throw up a little in my mouth.
Since it's the topic that will NEVER die let me add these comments about the NC game:
The 2006 Buckeyes were clearly talented but a) lived for 4 months with an air of inevitability, and b) weren't prepared EMOTIONALLY for the challenge to that inevitability they got out of Florida. These are kids, and when reality didn't meet expectations they reacted like kids.
Neither of those is true for the 2007 Buckeyes. They enter the game the underdog, and motivated as they have been to erase the memory of 2006 they won't spend three-quarters of the game wondering "What happened?" when they get tested by LSU, as I fully expect them to be.
As for the spread being a problem, a 27-point loss to Florida was followed by a 7-point loss to Illinois. Yes, both losses, but Ohio State's performance against the spread showed great improvement over the first time they faced it. I have every confidence the third time will show a similar improvement by the Buckeye defense. OSU may lose the game, but it won't be because of the spread offense.buckomatic, I still think Miles really wanted the Michigan job, but the powers that be at Michigan didn't want him. Why are you so scared of Miles anyway? Got a big game coming up against him or something?
Phork: Apparently his superbowl experiences, (with an awesome Michigan QB I might add), don't translate well to the college level. I can understand your disdain for Rutgers, 'cause they would have smoked ND this year.Netizen: thank god it stays in your mouth! Want some Listerine?
Phork: merci, mon ami. Allez les bon temps roller Jan 7.for SasQuatch: Don't get me wrong, I love Cajun. Best pal was a Cajun, love the food, been to many Mardi Gras festivals (both Fat City and Canal Street/Bourbon Street). The whole tradition. But that all has little to do with the football.
At least LSU is a majority native team like OSU. And LSU will have a major advantage on home turf. But the Buckeyes love being an underdog.
Now I don't know French, so I won't judge yours. But something about the French language (baTardized or not) just doesn't meld with American college football. Maybe in the bayou. Ah, well, back to my gumbo.3 thoughts, on the NC game, Michigan, and the SEC:
Ohio State can beat LSU, but it will be nearly impossible...playing in New Orleans makes it a home game for LSU, 80% of the crowd will be tiger fans, and the LSU crowd is vicious. on a neutral field i would pick OSU. Tressel is the better coach.
Michigan should go for a big name coach and pass the ball...but i am afraid the AD is stuck in the mire of inhouse thinking....its to bad
the SEC is the best conference this year, probably, but i think they are over-rated...they are no super conference, and while the Big Ten is down, for sure, it's not as bad as a bunch of these dolts are suggesting. the Big Ten has 8 teams with winning records. the Big 12 has 6.... Kansas has improved under Mangino (he's a great coach) but seriously, 8 of their opponents had losing records. i have no idea how they could be rated in the top ten.Buckomatic:
You have very fine taste in cuisine!
Agree . . little to do with football.
Sas9 Big Ten teams have winning records. One has a .500 record.
Hailvictors:
I have no disdain for Rutgers. But the fact of the matter is they apparently peaked and are again headed towards that downward spiral. And frankly if you didn't spank ND this year, ahem UCLA, then may God have mercy on your program.for Netizen:
Ditto. It's not so mmuch distasteful as it is a reminder that the bile can surface at any moment.
for hailvictors:
Never said we were scared of Miles, just that we breathed a little easier when he bailed. He would have been the best possible coach for UM, they lost out big time. Even at that, most of us prefer that UM get the right coach to compete with us again. The Rivalry makes us both better. And we'll take care of bizness in January, no worries there. Can you sing your username?Buckomatic: Damn right you better take care of business against LSU. Time for Michigan and OSU to spank (or at least beat) Florida and LSU to shut up these crazy SEC fans.There are only 3 things guarantee'd in life. Death, Taxes and SEC fans superiority complex.Granted Michigan lost but I wouldn't say we can't compete with OSU. This year was a down year, but the Michigan/OSU 2006 game was awesome.for HailVictors: If the Big Ten wins the bowling matchup against the SEC again, it still wouldn't convince SEC fans. We get another three shots at them this year.
- comptete as in parity again (as long as the Buckeyes win). Just don't go getting too good a coach, OK? BTW, we've come to love Carr as much as you all loved Cooper (there goes that vomit in the mouth thing again), and are truly sorry to see him go.I'm a Buckeyes fan, so obviously I don't want to see any new coach for Michigan turning to tide of recent matchup outcomes.
That being said Michigan should not be having problems getting a coach, they have an excellent and tradition heavy program. As for players not wanting to play where it is cold, that is far from the truth. These kids want to play for Michigan because of strong beliefs in the school, program, and tradition. If they didn't, would we see Ohio back as a national contendor, or the rise of Illinois?...Cooper. Good one.
Stoops would be my dream coach for Michigan. Michigan has the talent, but we need a coach who's unafraid to challenge players to up thier game. Stoops also has the #1 requirement for a Michigan Coach; Integrity. Stoops has shown at OU that he won't tolerate any shennanigans that might besmirch his program.
On a side note, it's been a rough 4 years for Michigan fans, but Rome ain't exactly burning. Let's try to keep things in perspective. Notre Dame had a abysmal season, and I suspect next year won't be better. Meanwhile, Michagan is set to recover from the diappointments of this year with both talent and a fresh coach.for Buckomatic - Last year the top three SEC teams dominated their bowl games. Four other SEC teams went 2 - 2 with the two losses fairly close contests to Big 10 teams. Now if OSU, Mich and Ill dominate LSU, USC and Fla, and four other Big 10 teams go 2 - 2 in this year's bowls only bonafide idiots will contest the superiority of the Big 10 in bowls.
This raises interesting questions as to why Big 10 people continue to bash the SEC bowl record from last year. If our two best teams got plastered, as happened to Mich and OSU, and we went 2 - 5 (right?) overall I would be hesitant to bash anyone.
With apologies to Netizen - I know I strayed off path again. Very wrong of me.Per the 2 previous posts, I am really surprised Norm Chow doesn't ever get a good look. He was the most dominant offensive coordinator running a pro-style offense in the last 10 years of the NCAA. Its not an accident that USC hasn't been the same since he left.
Is it because of his age? does he have a secret drug problem or something? someone please explain....At this point I'm pretty sure I will be named head coach at Michigan. I put in my application last week (the University was required to post the job publicly) and I'm hoping for call back early next week.Clearly, nobody cares about Michigan or the Big 10 anymore. Just count the comments posted. Only 183 as I write this! Piffle!BILL SNYDER...at Kansas State Snyder's coaching job truly a miracle, despite having no funding, no talent, and no tradition. Snyder was able to take a team that, at one time, would have been an underdog to any Div. II team, and raise them into a national powerhouse year in and year out. Finest coaching job at the collegiate level in the past 50 years! Imagine what Snyder could accomplish at a university with all the funding, talent, recruiting, and tradition already in place.Apparently Schiano has interviewed. Unless it was just to get more money for Rutgers training facilities it does appear that the Mich job is beginning to attract some attention. More power to Mich. The Big Ten needs them strong.Michigan needs to hire Brian Kelly. He may not be well-known but he has been successful with every team that he has been with. He is young and exciting. His offensive system would dominate in the Big 10. He has strong Michigan roots and has great potential for the future. Martin would be foolish not to hire him.Why not Karl Dorrell from UCLA???
Although he may not be the popular choice, he is available AND capable.
Wouldn't that be nice to lead Big Blue to the Rose Bowl only to defeat the opposition from the Pac 10 who has shun him via UCLA.
Big O
Los AngelesYou SEC whores better pray to the God's of Football that your conference goes better than .500 this bowl season or you're never ever going to here the end of it. As a matter of fact I bet that if you guys don't go .500 we won't be able to find 1/2 of you posting until October next year.
If you were smart (and by looking at the product coming out of the SEC schools its no wonder all you guys think about is football) you'd wait till after bowl season to declare your uberness.
I'll wait till after the teams play the games before I talk smack...but then again I went to a school that is great at athletics and academics.I am surprised by the number of people who are upset that Michigan honored its promise not to talk to Miles until after the SEC championship game. LSU requested that, and Michigan agreed. I think LSU is the shady one in this. They asked Michigan to wait to talk to MIles, then they pressured him into extending with them before the game. Unethical! An Miles is not better. He know the agreement the schools had, yet he wanted Michigan to violate the agreement. As an Ohio Stae fan I hate to say this, but maybe Michigan is just to ethical for Les Miles or LSU.for Matt - The SEC went 5 - 2 last year and still there's been a year of trash talking about how bad we are coming from people like you. Now you say it will continue if the SEC does not break even in the bowls this year. I don't doubt it. I swear, lose to LSU, and you'll still be running posts about how Ginn's injury doomed OSU.Michigan should go after Kevin Wilson (offensive coordinator at Oklahoma). The guy was on the staff at Northwestern some time back. He'll be a big hit somewhere in the future.Does no one remember last year? NO ONE really thought Florida stood a chance against OSU, but then look at the result. They utterly destroyed Ohio State.
Now this year, everyone is saying that OSU doesn't stand a chance against LSU.
I don't know if they do or not but considering last year's title game, and especially this season, there are no sure things.I don't why Martin has overlooked 3 so obvious choices for consideration: Chuck Long, Steve Mariucci, and John L. Smith. All have coaching experience and at some point have ties to the state of Michigan. Chuck Long, in his storied NFL career, got lucky and miraculously threw a TD pass as a Detroit Lion! If you want to continue Michigan's rich tradition ...of losing...go with one of these three!Man does Michigan have lepers working there or what? 2 coaches up, one who if you cut through his purple & gold skin, bleeds Maize & Blue, and now Schiano. Its a crazy world. Maybe its the Tressel factor. Sad, sad day indeed.Sas:
Actually, I'm very much aware of the impact of teaching on effectiveness...as Mr. Myagi used to say "no bad student, only bad teacher". What I was referring to was academic standards as they relate to quality of the institution. That said, I do think being around better students is going to help one maximize their own learning as well. But yeah, teaching is huge, and believe me I'm very aware of that!phork is right. Not only are the top name BCS coaches distancing themselves from Michigan, but none of the others seem to be knocking at the door. Michigan may be seen as a no win situation, particularly for anyone without Michigan ties. It's a shame because the Big 10 could become the semi-Big One.UM should hire Tressel from OSU. That would be a match made in Heaven. A zero coach leading a zero program!!! GO SEC & ACC!!!! The BIG 10 is terrible I don't think that the BIG 10 teams could compete in the Big East.Stack:
Nice try, but doubt anyone will rise to the bait. Good luck with that though.The Book
Stewart Mandel's first book, Bowls, Polls and Tattered Souls: Tackling the Chaos and Controversy that Reign Over College Football, is available now. Click here to order your discounted copy.CommentsAll user comments must be approved by the moderator before being published. Due to time constraints, comments will only be published for the first several hours following a new post.More MandelRecent Posts
Copyright © 2008 Time Inc.A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.Terms under which this service is provided to you.Read our privacy guidelines.
