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SI.com college football writer Stewart Mandel shares his commentary, analysis and random tidbits on the latest developments around the country.1/02/2008 05:10:00 PM Transitioning From Sugar to Title Game
NEW ORLEANS -- On the day after what Georgia coach Mark Richt appropriately dubbed “the longest game in the history of college football that didn’t go to overtime,” a changing of the guard was underway here at the Marriott. Moments after bidding adieu to one of Georgia’s beat writers as he toted his luggage to the elevator, I turned a hallway and immediately ran into one of Ohio State’s arriving beat writers.
Jim Tressel and the Buckeyes arrived in New Orleans on Wednesday.AP
Most of the Buckeyes themselves arrived here around noon Wednesday (somehow making it here from Columbus five hours before LSU was scheduled to arrive from an hour away), though some who traveled individually from their hometowns rather than on the team charter were delayed by the weather in Chicago and elsewhere. Jim Tressel issued the customary compliments to his hosts at a surprisingly packed press conference at the team’s hotel.
“It is going to be great for our young people to have a chance to experience this and see [New Orleans], the city they’ve read so much about,” said Tressel. “We’re excited to get to work."
This will be a much more condensed bowl week for the Buckeyes than it was in Arizona last year, where they arrived on Dec. 29 for the Jan. 8 game against Florida. This year, both Ohio State and LSU are only scheduled to hold three full practices here prior to Monday’s title game.
• I was curious to see what effect yesterday’s lopsided matchups had on both the Rose and Sugar bowls’ ratings. Sure enough, the overnight Nielsen ratings showed both were down significantly, though not drastically, from last year: The Rose Bowl fell from 14.5 last year (for USC-Michigan) to 12.0; the Sugar from 9.8 (LSU-Notre Dame) to 7.9.
Interestingly, the Michigan-Florida Capital One Bowl skyrocketed from 5.8 (for Wisconsin-Arkansas) to 9.9, an absolutely humongous number for a non-BCS game and higher than not only Georgia-Hawaii but last year’s Oklahoma-Boise State Fiesta Bowl. That says to me the BCS/non-BCS distinction is not necessarily the end-all, be-all it’s often made out to be, and that there’s still a huge premium on “brand-name” teams amongst the viewing public.
• I’m holding out hope that tonight’s Oklahoma-West Virginia Fiesta Bowl will offer a much-needed dose of drama following yesterday’s pair of BCS blowouts … but I’m not too optimistic.
Just as the nation got to see two powerful teams at the top of their game yesterday in USC and Georgia, the Sooners are a pretty darned good team that was playing its best football of the year at the end of the regular season when it trounced then-No. 1 Missouri. The Mountaineers, meanwhile, were last seen laying a gigantic egg against Pittsburgh, and that was before they lost their coach. I’ve been wrong before, but I’m guessing the BCS will be 0-for-3 by the end of the night.
• With all but a handful of teams’ seasons now complete and the coaching carousel winding down, the next big story in college football will be the impending exodus of underclassmen to the NFL. The first big shoe dropped Wednesday with Texas tailback Jamaal Charles declaring himself eligible. I must admit, that one caught me by surprise. There’s no question Charles is supremely talented and had a huge second-half of the season, but Texas players rarely leave early (Vince Young was the first under Mack Brown), and I’m not sure Charles is a first-round lock.
Charles’ decision certainly impacts the Longhorns’ 2008 prospects tremendously. Some young tailback who’s barely seen the field -- maybe coveted recruit Darrell Scott? -- is going to have to step up in a big way next season.
• That’s all for now. I’ll have more to report tomorrow after Ohio State and LSU hold their first full press conferences and practices.posted by Stewart Mandel | View comments |Comments:
Good luck to both teams, and I hope everyone plays with class, dignity and honor, but GO BUCKS!Stewart, I'm surprised that you didn't comment more on the Sugar Bowl blowout. It provides a pretty strong counter-argument to the 'Mid-majors belong' theory, and makes it look like last year's Boise State victory in the Fiesta may have been more a failure on Oklahoma's part, rather than a true accomplishment of Boise State.solidstatemind -- It may be that last year's Boise State victory may have been an accomplishment on the part of Boise State, rather than an argument about mid-majors as a whole.
That being said, I will be excited to see how OU does this year; too many years recently they've played well overall but ended poorly. Hopefully in the Not-Very-Important-Because-It-Has-Neither-A-Big-10-Nor-SEC-Team Bowl this year they can prove they can finish once again on a national stage.
Even if they do, and convincingly, there will still be question mark hanging over their heads because after WVU's last-game collapse no one is sure how good WV is now. Still, if (and this is potentially a big if) OU can turn in another BCS blowout performance, one might say that the Sooners have a better argument for splitting the championship than their rivals; unlike Georgia, they are a conference champion, and while the Colorado loss was ugly it wasn't a home loss to *Stanford*.
(Oh, yeah, and they are already ranked higher than Georgia and USC in the AP poll, but we saw at the end of the season how much that means.)
Of course this will be a moot point if the Sooners don't turn in a command performance, but you gotta wonder -- wouldn't the BCS bowls have been more palatable if they were only round 1, and, say, in the next round Georgia met USC, and OU met the winner of the Backed-Into-the-NC-Game?
Yes, yes, I know. Bowls aren't about good matchups or who is really the champion or anything besides money, which is why I'm kind of surprised that the Fiesta and Orange Bowls haven't already been replaced with the "godaddy.com National Rivalry Bowl" settling the eternal war between the Big 10 and SEC by having this year's doormats Minnesota and Mississippi square off and the "NBC America's Team Bowl" featuring the Notre Dame offense versus the Notre Dame defense. After all, if 6-6 teams can go bowling why not take losing-record teams if it means more rating$?
The arguments against a playoff are wearing thin with the current season and postseason. It wouldn't cut into bowl revenue, it would give people more of a reason to care about early-round games. Sure, fans would have to travel to more than one game -- OH NO. That would be horrible, I mean, it's not like fans bother to travel to professional playoff games, which there are more of, for which the tickets cost more than college games, and which are often in more wintry inhospitable climates than college bowl games.
How many BCS, conference, and university administrators will have be nibbled to death by rabid ducks before we have a chance at actually seeing a playoff resolve a season like this one?? 'Cos, you know, I'll supply the ducks *smirk*.Just my thoughts, but I believe Ohio St should be thanking GOD that they pulled LSU rather than Georgia. From the way UGA played last night, I don't think anyone want it with them right now. I know that people are already trying to downplay the power that Hawaii has been for most of the season (in order to discredit what Georgia has done), but that could have been any team last night. They would have gotten the same treatment. LSU and USC's defenses probably couldn't measure to Georgia's defense from what I saw. They were for real. It wasn't the best game I've seen all season, but it definitely was the best performance from one team that I've seen (to include USC's dismantling of Illinois).
PS... All this from someone who's not a Georgia fan.Even though I hate the Buckeyes with at passion, I hope they stomp LSU like The Big Blue did the gators. I am so tired of the SEC talk. Speed this and talent that. Yesterday goes to show that the SEC isn't the only conference with speed and talent. Michigan should have beaten them by at least two touchdowns. It also shows that the SEC is just like any other conference and that they are not invicible. I hate to say it but..........Go Buckeyes!MichiganMan:
From a Buckeye, just wanted to say thanks and I know that one was hard to say! So I'll say one back...Nice job Blue! You played tough and fast and helped Coach Carr go out a winner against a very good Florida team!Good lord, will the B10 EVER get over their sour grapes?? Enough of the woe is me and those big bad bragging bullies from the SEC. GEEESSHHH.Indeed, the sour grapes will be sweet once again when the other Big 10 flagship program follows the lead of their counterpart and upsets the other flagship program of the SEC.
GO BUCKEYES!b_dubya-
you know as much about college football as your namesake does about being leader of the "free" world. get a grip, numb nuts. Not only did Hawaii's linemen look small, they also appeared roly poly. i could see the outlines of their cellulite through them tight white pants. and that matthew stafford is nothing to crow about neither. someone pointed out in a previous thread that his numbers this year are worse than Anthony "Cinderfelli" Morelli's. Stafford should stick to swilling beers and chasin cupcakes on Nascar infields. In other words, don't quit yer day job Matty. Go OSU. The only thing I like less than the Buckeyes are confederates and hillbillies. The entire SEC is covered on both them scores, confederates and hillbillies that is.SEC still has more power teams than the Big 10, that's the fact, boys, sorry to inform you!!!I hope Ohio State doesn't undo all of Michigan's hard work! I'm not too fond of the Big 10 or the SEC, but I'm sick and tired of hearing about the 'godly' and 'almighty' SEC. I think Georgia or USC would defeat either LSU or OSU. Georgia is in the midst of a peak and LSU backed into the title game. College football fans need more options. I'm not satisfied with the NCG.....not even close. At least the BCS gave us some other interesting and competitive games NOT!for Kirk - Both LSU and OSU backed into the NC game. But to put Georgia in that game is to totally disregard the regular season. Georgia did not even make their SEC title game. USC is playing great, but they also failed badly during the regular season. In fact there was no elite team in the regular season. WV played a weak schedule so what you are left with are the champions of their conf - OKLA, OSU and LSU. LSU gets the nod over OK IMO.(Fair disclosure - I am an LSU fan)
What is this disgusting love-fest between UM & OSU fans? :-)
The only comment I have about the bowl games so far is that the Rose Bowl needs to change its selection process. This isn't the 30s, 40s, 50s, or 60s anymore. Blindly picking a B10-PAC10 match-up does not automatically create good games. Last year UM didn't belong in the Rose, and this year Illinois didn't belong.
Last year the Rose would have been better served by taking LSU and this year it would have been better served by taking UGA.
This is not a "SEC is better than B10" argument; it is an observation that in these two instances arguably (not definitively) better teams were available for the Rose to pick. As for "tradition", if the B10 and Rose Bowl want to go the way of the British Empire, keep making the "tradition" argument argument (a "tradition" which BTW did not exist prior to WWII).
One final point - both the B10 and the Rose Bowl need to consider the greater good of all college football, instead of their traditional parochial interests. Both institutions needs to change their positions on the plus-one format. It would offer the chance to create two new games (the semi-finals) which could be played in the frigid wastes of the north (perhaps satisfying the "home game" complaint B10 fans like to offer up).
Lastly - Geaux Tigers!Yeah, I can't argue about the current NCG given the existing BCS rules. I would just like to see some hot teams (i.e. Georgia and USC) have a chance....I think a lot of college football fans would like that!Hey, you can say that OSU and LSU both backed into the NC game. But I think it's more accurate the the other teams backed out of the NC game. These teams had every opportunity to make there but they folded.
Let's give credit where it's due, there may be more hot teams than these two, but that's not the criteria.
1st, you've got to win your conference.
Next, you can't lose to Stanford (at home and favored by 41 ptss), regardless of non-conference shedule.
I'm an OSU fan, but of all the teams that got left out, only Oklahoma has something to be upset about, if in fact there is such a thing as a 2 loss team being snubbed. I think they have a better resume than USC and LSU and just as much talent.
All this doesn't matter though, as long as we have this whack BCS system, this is how it's going to be.JJN..
confederates and hillbillies? good grief. the war has long been over. geaux tigersAs for the Rose Bowl picking Illionios over Georgia and leaving Missouri out, don't forget that it was the BCS that foiled the Georgia / Oklohoma Orange bowl. They have a method to their maddness when selecting non marque matchups - they don't want the possibility of a split national title. Imagine Georgia beating USC or Oklohoma and an ugly National Championship - that would be the last thing that the BCS wants and you can bet that the matchups are made to avoid that.So much hype, even from the media experts. Amid BCS-created lunacy, we try to "gush" one team or another into the title, declaring them the "hottest in the country." It's Georgia. Oklahoma. USC.
Consider USC, being touted by some sports observers as the best team now and deserving of the AP poll championship.
Before blitzing Arizona State and beating UCLA, USC had a 7-point win over free-falling California, a 24-3 victory over Oregon State, a loss against Oregon, a bullying of pitiful Notre Dame, and a 7-point win over Arizona. There was also the loss at home to 41-point underdog Stanford.
During the regular season, USC had only two victories over teams with a winning record. Their first seven opponents finished 27-58. USC didn't even play a team with a winning record until the 8th game and lost that one. Other than Michigan's stunner with Appy St., their Stanford defeat was the most embarrassing upset of the year.
Yet the Arizona St. win and a 24-7 whuppin’ of a beaten, bruised, and underachieving UCLA squad made them the hottest team in the country? USC’s late season accomplishments were actually pretty pedestrian. And if Dennis Dixon hadn't fallen to injury, USC probably would not even have made it to the Rose Bowl.
They beat ASU by 20? Oklahoma beat a much better Missouri team by 21. Heading into the bowls, USC had beaten two teams with winning records. VA Tech had beaten six while LSU, Georgia, and Oklahoma had each beaten five.
Their Rose Bowl win seems impressive. However, when you consider Illinois was not even the champ of its own conference and was playing in the spotlight's glare for the first time in a long while (none of their players had ever been to a bowl), it removes some of the sheen. So does the fact that Illinois gained over 400 yards and contributed greatly to the final score with their own mistakes.
Is USC one of the better teams in the country? Undoubtedly. The best? Give me a break. Two impressive wins against a mediocre schedule does not make a national championship. They're getting national championship buzz based on their past success and their "sexiness" as a superb recruiter and perennial contender.
How easily doth bowl fever distort the cold, hard facts.stuart k - I agree with what you say regarding the negatives for USC. There were many. But I don't see the basis for the statement that Mizzou was much better than Ariz St. You may be right but IMO neither Ariz St or Mizzou accomplished anything in the regular season to define themselves. Both seemed to have lost the only big games they played, and Oregon without Dixon may not be so big.
My problem is that so many teams are playing powderpuff non-conf schedules that it is difficult to know how good they really are. Mizzou beat an Illinois team that you correctly slammed. Kansas beat nobody of significance. Neither did Ariz St.No one should try to draw anything from Georgia's easy win, other than that Hawaii was massively overrated by people don't bother to actually look at relative schedules. There was a reason why Hawaii couldn't get any traction in the computer rankings, but sentimental meatbags bought into this undefeated baloney. I'm not saying they didn't deserve a chance to play on New Years, but no one should be surprised that they got pancaked.
Same with USC. Illinois is just not that good, yet their defense still managed to hold the line pretty well against the 'best team in the country' (to lame groupthink sportswriters - not Stewart) even though their mediocre offensive talent and crappy play-calling could not give them any help at all.
I'm from Champaign, but I said it at the time - the Rose Bowl was dumb to not take Missouri. It would have been a much better game, and I'm sure the Tigers would have brought plenty of pasty, old, white fans too. Missouri is the ONLY team that got screwed by the BCS this year.Both teams (LSU and Ohio St.) got to the National Title game by luck, not by record. Ohio St and LSU have demonstrated they have the ability to be in any BCS Game. There is still sayings that USC back in 2003 are co-national champions when LSU won the Championship Title, USC does not have the trophy, so enough of that. Georgia played a great game against Hawaii in the Sugar Bowl. Hawaii got their first taste of the BCS, but they will deserve another trip in the future. LSU will defeat Ohio St. and there will be no sharing the title this time as I mentioned before (USC you didn't play for the National Title, so you don't deserve a share it!) GEAUX LSU TIGERS!!!!!!qb - obviously (and quite typically for a SEC fan), you have the written argument skills of a first grader. You cannot possibly expect everyone to believe that random bowl records against other conferences constitute "superiority." If you do expect such a response, then you are more ridiculous than I fathomed. The point is as follows: the only way to actually discuss and debate some semblance of "superiority" (if there is such a thing in the current state of college football) is through HEAD-TO-HEAD BOWL MATCHUPS. And, just so you can keep score in the pea-sized brain of yours, this years bowl matchup (of SEC v. BIG10) is as follows: SEC - 1, BIG10 - 1. OSU-LSU on Monday night is the tiebreaker.Eric,
You're questioning qb's argument skills yet you're the one resorting to personal attacks and insults. Just wanted to point that out.Charles, I understand your skepticism. I said Missouri is superior because I think the Big 12 was tougher than the Pac 10, Missouri is currently 6th in the BCS to ASU's 12th, and Mizzou blew a good Arkansas team away while ASU got creamed by another Big 12 team ranked lower than Missouri.If the Fiesta Bowl keeps going the way that it is I think that we can all honestly say that Oklahoma no longer has any gripe about not making it to New Orleans to play OU in the BCS NC game. I agree with an earlier poster who said that it's not that LSU amd OU backed IN to the NC game, but that the other teams backed OUT of them.
I am an LSU fan so obviously I am rooting for them. But IMO the 2 best teams in the country RIGHT NOW are USC (man that hurt) and UGA. These two would have been an incredible match up in the Rose Bowl (game) that Illinois obvioulsy didn't deserve to be in. I too think we they need to get away from "tradition" and match up the BEST teams i.e. UGA/USC and OU/LSU. Maybe if they did that there would be a legitimate argument that there could be a possiblility of a CO-NC.
That's all I really have to comment on excpet for GEAUX TIGERS!You SEC guys kill me!! The SEC has bottom feeders just like every other conference! Who is Ole Miss, Miss State, Vanderbilt? Heck, who was Arkansas before last year? Next year they will be back at the bottom. LSU was garbage and forgotten before Saban got there. Tennessee? They are the Penn State of the SEC. Top of the conference every ten years! So while you proclaim that you are so deep and that your all play each other tough who cares. When your same bottom feeders like Kentucky struggle to beat a Florida State team that has 12 players and your Miss State team scores 10 points of Central Florida, how dominate do you really look? Get off of your own jock! You are just like everyone else. Heavy on the top, soft on the bottom. And don't go there with the bowl record! You really aren't playing tough opponents! Hawai'i, Colorado, Central Florida? Come on! Hold off on the We are the ALL MIGHTY.Michiganman...
How easily we forget that your beloved Mishitgan Wolvaqueens lost to App. St. No one knew who they were before you lost to them. So I don't wanna hear about you gripe about superiority of a conference.
Also don't start in about the "who have you played in the bowl games?" argument. We didn't pick our opponents. The BcS made all those decisions...not the SEC.
I give Mich a great deal of respect for beating a decent UF team. However, had they not been playing with all the emotions of wanting to give LC a win in his last game....WIN ONE FOR THE GIPPER!!! Had he not been fired (for SUCKING) and just coached that game without fear of being fired, they would have gotten trounced. UF played a horrible game and UM played the most emotional game they could muster for LC and THAT is why they won.
Have a good day, sir.
Geaux Tigers!for Eric - Take another look at the qb stats. The Big 10 is 3-4 with one good win. I would have to believe that any Big 10 fan would be disappointed and feel that it was not a satisfactory result. The SEC is 6-2 with one bad loss and several good victories (not Georgia's BTW). While many SEC fans might have hoped for better 6-2 is easily the best result and supports statements that the SEC may be the toughest conf.
Perhaps you may disagree and state that the 3-4 record is good for the Big 10 and that 6-2 is bad for the SEC. But how you can justify such a personal attack says more about you than qb.(Fair disclosure--I'm a huge Florida Gators fan)
A sat stunned as I watched Michigan stuff my beloved Gators. I was told that Michigan was unranked and that Florida was ranked #9. Further, that the Big 10 was supposedly not the powerhouse it was 20 years ago. After watching the Gators dominate in our conference all year long, and then seeing Michigan shut them down while running all over them, I'm not so sure that what everyone has been telling me is correct.for Michiganman - When an SEC bottomfeeder, Miss St, not only earns a bowl bid but stops a rusher that few could handle I'd say that speaks highly of the SEC. How many other confs had bottom feeders win bowl bids? Your compliment is greatly appreciated. And you are correct in pointing out that a #6 or #7 SEC team probably should not have been selected to go against what many say was #2 in the Big 12 in the Cotton Bowl. I agree that the top one or two teams in most confs should be able to handle an average SEC team. Mizzou showed itself to be a distant second to a #1 OKLA team that clearly is not so hot. Agreed?For Allison....
Ummmm, so just exactly when did UF dominate this year? Oh that's right they DIDN'T. They lost 3 games and didn't make it to the SEC Championship game. Like I stated earlier...the ONLY reason that UF lost that game is because they weren't on top of theirs and UM was playing with a butt ton of emotion so LC could go out on top a winner and to not dissapoint there beloved coach that the game has clearly passed up.
Geaux Tigers!The Buckeyes are gonna slaughter the Bayou Bengals. When they've wiped the entrails from their beards, they'll make a bonfire of the Superdome and drag a brothel of them purty SEC chicky babies into a swamp for some lovin. It's the American way. The END.
The Post Script. Vernon Gholston was raised on the streets of Dee-troit by a pack of wild pit bulls. You know that, don't you?What IS it with Bob Stoops lately? He seems to be specializing in torpedoing his own teams with losing bowl performances; getting killed in the Sooners' last two NC tries, unable to respond to Boise State's trickeration last year, and now this year, when OU is actually regaining some momentum in the second half, he kills OU's momentum with a failed 2 point try and onside kick.
Give credit to WVU for their skill and playing hard -- but OU hasn't been playing with the enthusiasm or the organization they've shown earlier in the year, while WVU has been living up to its potential.
Stoops needs to spend less time making ridiculous arguments against a college playoff scheme and more time actually getting his kids ready to play in a BCS bowl again.for Sal - Florida may have the distinction of being the only one not losing to an unranked team in the regular season. The only loss that may not have been close was the Georgia game and Florida had a chance to win it late. It was a major rebuilding year for Florida and they did very well in many ways. Michigan is a talented team that may have played its best game of the year against Florida. I see little if any shame for Florida and much credit to Michigan.for mjd - Stoops does not seem to be able to get his team ready on a consistent basis for teams OK is supposed to beat. There have been losses to TCU, Boise, Colorado and others. Stoops seems at his best taking on the challenge of an elite opponent although I am sure some will remind me of USC.SEC - Special Education Conference... I wonder how many players from the SEC would be academically eligible in the Big Ten, PAC 10 or ACC?
That being said and with Florida not keeping up with a supposedly "inferior" UM team, I think we need to reconsider this SEC dominance thing.For Charles...
I agree with you that this was a rebuilding year for UF...but also would you agree that UF should have won that game against a UM team that lost to App ST. UM was playing with some hellacious emotions for there boy LC. Indeed they did play their best game of the season...and for a bowl game against an SEC team, that's what really counts.For all the hammering my Buckeyes have taken in the last 12 months for losing their first BCS game in 5 tries, what about Oklahoma?
2004: loses national championship game to LSU.
2005: loses national championship game to USC in a historic wipeout.
2007: loses to Boise State as a big favorite.
2008 (?): about to lose to West Virginia as a significant favorite.
Oklahoma is obviously a great program, but there's definitely a double standard on which teams become laughingstocks for losing BCS games and which teams don't.for renb2 - dude? seriously? At least we in the SEC can count to 11 and know the difference between it and 10. If u can't grasp what I mean by that then maybe u go to an SEC school so we can explain it to you.
On another note....WVU is man handling OK. To be honest I didn't see that coming at all. Especially for a team that lost to lowly Pittsburgh AND no head coach.to MichiganMan
dude, seriously, you have to accept the reality of life, just like everyone of us do... I am an SEC fan, an LSU fan, but I think I am also a reasonable person. I 'll give you an example: I would never never never, even if you put a gun to my head, say that SEC is a great basketball conference just because Florida is the NC two years in a row... Or just because LSU went to the final 4 a couple of times in the last ten years... Or just because we a ONE good basketball team called UK!!! It would be stupid to try to make a point there.. I meaqn you have these great Bball conferences like ACC or the Big East with great teams like Syracuse, Gtown, Lousville, NC, Duke etc etc.. I mean, lets be reasonable... So I think the same goes for football in the SEC. I mean the SEC has continuos POWER TEAMS such as Alabama, UF, Georgia, Auburn, LSU and even Tenn. These are all huge teams... You have to pull for an SEC team to realie the anguish we all go thru. UF beats Tenn this week, but immediately their fans are shaking and baking about next week, because they have to play e.g LSU... It is a tough tough conf., I tell you... I mean UF was NC last year, LSU a couple of years ago, before that we had Tenn; Auburn went undefeated a few years ago, and got snubbed completely; and so forth... Individual bowl games really dont matter, you have to look at the greater picture, that's all I am saying... Cheers, and goooo Tigers!!!for renb2 - Doesn't the SEC have a higher graduation rate for its athletes than the Big 10? I thought I read that OSU had poor scores in relationship to others. That said I am a graduate of a Big Ten school and the conf schools are academically among the best in the country.Hey Mandel - do your homework.. Kwame Cavil preceeded Vince Young as the first Texas player to leave before his eligibility expired under Mack Brown. In all fairness, unlike VY he left prematurely and fizzled out of the NFL.for Hyde - Your Buckeyes get hammered for their results not because they are worse than most teams from other confs, but because they are falling short of the OSU tradition for excellence. I think this year's OSU team is worse than last year's team because last year's team easily stepped through a schedule which included Texas. But last year's team clearly fell short of OSU standards for excellence when it was hammered by Florida. It looks to me like OSU is slipping these past two years. But maybe you will say that this year's team is just as good as the best from the past.If anyone still thought that he was, tonight officially ended Bob Stoops' reign as a "football genius." How exactly is he being outcoached by a team with no coach?
Here's an interesting note: Mack Brown has more BCS bowl wins than Bob Stoops does.Oh and Dave,
Yeah, technically Cavil was the first player to leave Texas early but he was kicked off the team. At the very least that deserves an asterisks.for Omagus - WV may be positively fueled by the same kind of emotion that fueled Michigan. Okla may have difficulty getting charged up for a coachless team, just as they had difficulty getting up for a much less talented team in last year's bowl game. WV may not have the talent of Okla, but playing at top speed with Okla dragging a bit could easily spell doom for Okla, don't you agree?Charles, I think OSU is worse on offense this season compared with 2005 and '06, but better on defense. That means unimpressive final scores much of the time. That Michigan offense we all saw yesterday? The Buckeyes held them to 91 yards.In case you guys are missing it -- WVU is providing a pretty good example right now of why the only way to choose two teams for the NC is to go by the overall resume rather than how good a team looks. OU came in looking pretty good but that didn't seem to help them. (Though it's not like OU had much to play for with it only being one of the four non-NC BCS bowls and OU already having last year's Fiesta Bowl embarrassment hanging over them).Charles,
That's true. But coming into bowl season, OU was along with USC and UGA playing the best football in the country. WVU probably wasn't being given enough credit but for OU to be beaten THIS badly? Wow.
And it doens't explain OU's 4 game losing streak in BCS bowls.OU-Thanks for another mind numbing performance in the BCS. I'm 'tingling' with excitement over that Kansas-VT match-up. What a disappointing bowl season. I guess low ratings (read: lost advertising revenue) will be the only thing that gets through to anyone that matters. Go Bucks!It’s time to review this season’s bowl accomplishments of the SEC and view them in a context that exposes the truth behind the 6-2 record. I’ve rated each win on a standard 1-10 scale with 10 being the best. My ratings are based on how much the win confirmed, increased, or lowered the SEC’s reputation as the baddest of the bad. Any score under 5 means that the SEC’s reputation was damaged despite winning. Anything over 5 means that they’re reputation was kept intact or elevated. I concluded through this analysis that the SEC primarily won against lesser teams while playing virtual home games in SEC country. When they play quality teams they tend to lose. They also barely get past a lot of people, suggesting that their unstoppable dominator reputation is a complete myth.
Miss. St. 10-3 over Central Florida. This is highly unimpressive considering that MSU comes from the mighty SEC. They gave up 119 yds. to Smith and only managed 10 points. This was the season’s most boring bowl game played by the two teams least deserving of bowl spots. Quality of win: 2
Alabama 30-24 over Colorado. Alabama, who lost to Louisiana-Monroe in the regular season, barely held off a young and inconsistent Colorado team that was in a total shambles only a year ago. Further, Bama only had to drive 5 hours for this game in Shreveport, La. While CU had to travel from the Rocky Mountains, practically making it a home game for the Tide. Quality of win: 3.
Kentucky 35-28 over Florida State. What more needs to be said other than Kentucky barely escaped a mediocre team in chaos with 24 suspended players. Quality of win: 1.
Auburn 23-20 over Clemson. A good win over a good team that seems to always choke in the big games. Played in Atlanta, the capital of SEC country. Quality of win: 7.
Tennessee 21-17 over Wisconsin. A reasonably good win for the SEC runner-up over a tough team that lost three games in the Big Ten. However, the very close outcome does serious damage to the SEC’s reputation. Anyone with two eyes could see that Wisconsin was every bit as fast and athletic as Tennessee. The great myth starts to crumble, even in victory. Quality of win: 3.
Arkansas loses 38-7 to Missouri. This is a horrendous loss by a team that beat LSU, the SEC champ. In this case, the SEC is only redeemed by the fact that this is the one bowl where they were not matched up against a clear underdog. Still, they were blown off the field by a newbie to the top-tier of college football.
Florida loses 41-35 to Michigan. The Heisman Trophy winner and the reigning national champs, playing in their home state, get smacked around by a sloppy, turnover happy Michigan team that lost at home to Oregon, App. St. and Ohio St. Florida also gave LSU an incredibly tough game. After this game, the SEC’s reputation is all but shattered in the minds of everyone but the egomaniacal SEC.
Georgia 41-10 over Hawaii. The fact that this win comes in SEC territory against an out of their league Hawaii is adequate evidence that this game is a joke. Any good team from a BCS conference should be able to easily handle Hawaii. Quality of win: 2.Will, I came on here after the WV and Mizzou losses and argued for Oklahoma getting the BCS championship bid.
How the Sooners could thoroughly shut down Missouri, which has a much more varied attack than West Virginia, and then get pulverized tonight is a complete mystery.Omagus-
Cavil wasn't kicked off the team - he was suspended (along with Aaron Humphrey) for the Cotton Bowl of his Junior season. He could have returned and played his senior year.Quick, name the past three national champions with one-loss. What do they have in common?
Which conference has the best BCS bowl record?
Which conference performs the best on the biggest stage (NC game)?
No one deserves the NC this year. Not OSU, not LSU, not UGA, not USC. Isn't it odd that OSU dominates Meechigan but can't beat the SEC while Meechigan does it regularly? Will that change this year?Is somebody kidding about the Sooners "sharing" a BCS championship? WVU just put a beat-down on OU that they will probably never forget until another Big East team puts one on them.Congratulations to West Virginia on a tremendous bowl victory. Big East, THE power conference, goes 3-2, so far, including a BEAT-DOWN on the Big 12 champions. Go, Mountaineers!Okay, who wants the Big East in a bowl game next year? Who wants the team that BEAT West Virginia out of a national championship?UGA beats Hawaii = expected
UGA loses to Hawaii = SEC sucks and mid-majors are so hot right now
Seems like good logic to me. BTW, UGA tied for the division lead with UT (lost tie-breaker due to its two losses in the East). No, UGA did not win its conference but they were co-division champs (look at Big10/11, which often has co-champs).
Big 10/11 = Michigan/Ohio State. Since 1968 or over the past 40 years, OSU and UM have won or shared 33 conference championships. Only seven times since 1968 did the Big 10 championship not include one of these schools. It's a two-team conference.Before I go, I just need to say: Urban Myer is NOT the biggest crybaby in college football. That would be Mack Brown of Texas. Urban is only the number 2 crybaby, but when you're number 2, you try harder (Don't they say?).Dear fellow SEC fans, I think we have pissed on the Big 10 enough. I say we redirect our flows to the Big 12 :P
(if it censors me, I said a word that starts with p and means "to urinate")
Seriously this conference bashing stuff is getting old. The SEC is a very tough conference, probably the toughest, but that doesn't mean the flagships of the other conferences suck. Give it a rest.Charles, you're one of the rare reasonable voices on this blog, but to say that the Buckeyes "are falling short of the OSU tradition for excellence" suggests that you haven't consulted the books or are losing your objectivity. I grew up in Columbus and remember the dark days of the 80's - including six consecutive 9-3 seasons - like they were yesterday. Between 1980-95, OSU was irrelevant to the national picture, apart from playing the occasional role of spoiler.
OSU's record over the last 15 years: 149-37-1. If "falling short" is a bad loss in last year's NC game, then wow, that's harsh. If falling short is 4-1 in BCS games, three NC games in six years, then do tell us which program out there is living up to the standard you cite. (Let's also remember that an OSU win over Michigan in 2003 would have likely put them in back-to-back NC games, and near-misses in 96 and 98.)
In my mind, a pretty good example of a program that in recent years hasn't lived up to a tradition of excellence is Alabama. Yes, there's the 1992 NC, but only one conference championships since then. 113-71-1 in 15 seasons (a number that reflects 1993's on-field record of 9-3-1, not 1-12 due to forfeits). That's an average of 7.5 wins a year over 15 years, certainly not great by the high standard set over the course of many preceding generations.
This isn't a Big 10 vs SEC thing, though I imagine that's how many will interpret it. I'm just saying that your response doesn't resonate. Dare I say it doesn't live up to your standard of excellence? ;) Anyway, good night all, I hope I don't get killed for this. Good luck LSU and Go Bucks - looking forward to a great game!Congratulations to West Virginia on a great win, and one that really "hit the spot" for them emotionally! I've said a number of times in earlier blogs that I think talent level, speed, etc. are pretty even across the top teams in most of the conferences, and one of the biggest differentiators in these games is the emotional element, and I think you saw that with WVU tonight.
As for all the bowl results, I think they pretty accurately represent what's happened this year...lots of parity and lots of unexpected results. We can (and will, of course) argue quality of wins, win percentage, etc. out the wazoo, but does that really tell you much? Mountain West had an .800 winning percentage, and while I really like the conference (especially my BYU friends and Air Force) I think it would be tough to say they're the best conference based on that number. Quality of wins? I think you see those dispersed across the board, as well as close games between conferences that suggest pretty even/close level of talent. As a Big 10 fan, I'm of course hoping that OSU plays tough, but if anything what I'm seeing from the bowls are signs of increasing parity and competitiveness from "equal rank" teams across conferences. I certainly could be wrong but that's what it seems to me. In any case, I'm now hoping that OSU will take care of business on Monday and we'll have a great game.
A good evening to all...Hey Hyde I am on your side for the most part but that Ohio State team also didn't face the same Michigan team that you say yesterday. Remember Henne's are was popping out of socket of every throw and Hart was playing on flat tires. I don't think that game would have been that way had they been healthy. I'm just stating the obvious. Don't mean to rain on your parade.Eric:
I have to say that while I certainly understand where the angst comes from, and while I don't disagree with your basic premise, I think you're being a little harsh with your "bowl game ratings". I haven't gone back to look at bowl game results from other conferences, but I'd guess that the same measures could be applied to bowl results from the Big 10, Pac 10...heck, probably from every conference. If you're simply suggesting that the bowl results support the SEC being "mortal" I'd agree (and probably so would many SEC fans), but they're no more "mortal" than any other conference, and in the end I still think you have to congratulate those conferences that do in fact get the wins (including our friends in the MWC)...assuming that for the most part bowl opponents are at least SOMEWHAT evenly matched in talent.PittFan:
Two things...
1) Stay safe over there!
2) A picture is definitely worth 1000 words! You're killin' me!Between their choke job last year and no-show this year, I propose a three-year exile from BCS games for Oklahoma. In other news, Hawaii shows just how COMPLETELY overrated the WAC and its "stellar" teams - the Warriors and Boise State - really are. Apparently, going 12-0 against high school teams isn't proper preparation for a BCS bowl and SEC team. Two, count 'em, two of Hawaii's opponents had winning records. That offense showed its true colors against the Dawgs.You were right about the Fiesta Bowl, it was a blowout. Good call. Oh, you picked Oklahoma. Oops.
I'd say it means at least one of the following three things:
1. Bowl games are meaningless
2. It's impossible to tell who's good when teams play so few tough non-conference games. Neither WVU nor Oklahoma beat a really strong team outside of their conferences.
3. WVU/Big East is underrated and/or Oklahoma/Big XII is overrated
I don't think you can convince me that 1 and 2 aren't true. And there's no way to prove 3 without more non-conference games or a playoff system that takes place less than a month after teams finish their regular seasons.Gotta love how all the "conference" idiots are out in full force. Two words: GROW UP.
Cheer for your team, cheer for your conference-mates during bowl season, but stop trying to make arguments about how [your conference] is so much better than [hated conference] because of [such-and-such], because guess what? The only thing you're 'proving' is how irrational, quixotic, sad, and- ultimately- pathetic you are. (Yes, I'm talking to YOU eric y-town! 99 out of 100 people who read your post briefly wondered how much time you wasted on that bit of pure speculation before they thought 'GET A LIFE!')
Congratulations to West Virginia: I honestly think that you have provided the BCS-bowl shocker of the year, with the only way the Championship game is more shocking is if OSU blows LSU out of the Superdome (not impossible, of course, just improbable.) That is to say, does anyone think that the Orange Bowl is going to be an upset? No, I didn't think so.
Sooo... anyone else looking at their scorecards and seeing the final rankings as:
1 - BCS Game Winner
T2 - USC
T2 - UGA
4 - BCS Game Loser
5 - Orange Bowl Winner
6 - WVU [would be higher but for the 'Pitt Incident'.]
...
?
Final thoughts before I crash for the evening: watching that game tonight, I couldn't help but think "Man, if WVU played with half that intensity against Pitt, they would've been in the NC! Maybe RR leaving WVU is actually a good thing!"RE: coreybower
I think you are head on with the "bowl games don't mean anything". I'm and OU student and a huge Fla fan and have followed both very closely over the years. How do you explain UF's terrible offense last year scoring 34 points in the first half against OSU after not scoring more than 20 in any SEC regular season game? How do you explain OU shutting down Mizzou, who put up points on everyone, then come out and let WVU run all over you? I could go on and on with many more examples. The fact bowl games are not indicative of how a particular has played during the season and tell us absolutely nothing about how good a team is or about a conference unless you're USC and Pete Carroll and kick everyone's butt (unless they're a 41 point underdog)!BleedsOrangeandBlue said...
Seriously this conference bashing stuff is getting old. The SEC is a very tough conference, probably the toughest, but that doesn't mean the flagships of the other conferences suck. Give it a rest.
Agree totally. As a rabid Dawgs fan, I'm the first to admit that, had the BCS Powers-That-Be actually given us a USC/UGA matchup, it's probable that the Trojans would have won - albeit in a nail-biter. But even having said that, it still would have been a game that I (and I dare say the rest of the country) dearly would have loved to have seen. Ah, well, those of us that were hoping for a good Pac-10/SEC matchup can at least look forward to this coming September, when the Dawgs travel to Arizona State on 9/20.
Bottom line, who cares if it's the SEC team or the Big 10 team that wins the National Championship game? I just hope it's a great, close game.Look everybody, before you start to crucify the likes of Eric Y-Town and other Big Ten fans for a little SEC bashing, let's put it in it's proper context.
1. Almost every SEC fan, at some point this season, has spouted off about how the top six to eight teams of the SEC would go undefeated in every other conference in America.
2. Almost every SEC fan has, at some point this season, brought up 41-14 as the benchmark for why the SEC is superior to every other conference in America.
3. Almost every SEC fan has, at some point this season (seeing a trend here?), indicated that EVERY conference champion not from the SEC would lose at least three games in the mighty SEC.
4. Almost every SEC fan has continously spewed garbage about SEC speed, and slow-footed midwesterners, since the time Ted Ginn, Jr. hurt his foot in LAST YEAR'S game.
5. SEC fans relish the opportunity to throw out statistics to support their purported conference superiority (there's that 41-14 again), but don't evaluate the situation in it's entirety (2-1 record of the Big Ten vs. SEC last year).
6. SEC fans will continuously call any ranked team not from the SEC "overrated" and indicate that they play a "soft" schedule, and when said "soft" teams beat an SEC team, there are more excuses than I've ever heard in my life.
7. SEC fans will interchangeably argue about conference strength and individual team strength, and will pick statistics to "back up" their claim ignoring the big picture. (i.e. - SEC is best conference because of 41-14, but we don't want to hear 1-2 vs. Big Ten)
So, excuse college football fans from every other conference in America for relishing the opportunity to rub your nose in it when things don't go your way. You've made the bed by your braggart ways...now, unfortunately for some, you have to lie in it.
You can downplay UF losing to UM all you want, but the fact remains that the #9 team according to the polls lost IN FLORIDA to an unranked, slow, inferior, Big Ten team. If OSU fans had to hear 41-14 for an entire year, you can bet Big Ten fans are going to rub UM's win in your face as well.Question for You LSU and USC people why do you guys have these supposed great recruiting classes but when one of your players get hurt..you so say we've been unhealthy all season thats why we lose some of our games and why we don't play good every week. Why can't you do like the never in the top 5 recruiting classes of OSU and replace people like Troy,Ginn,Pittman,Gonzoles..90% of there scoring..and still end up in the Championship game. Explain that to me USC and LSU big bad blue chip colleges.bgault:
Yep, unfortunately there are some fans of teams in the SEC who are overzealous and bash based on game outcomes. Much of it goes way too far. As our esteemed co-blogger Larry likes to say, "we must look past it and separate the chaff from the wheat . . . and a lot of it there is"
It was in that spirit that I, as an LSU fan, looked past Eric Y's attempt to grade each of the SEC bowl games with "style points." Not that it was not an interesting exercise . . it is kind of novel applying his criteria as he would presumably do as an Olympic ice skating judge. I'd seen such game-by-game style point assessments from both Big 10 and SEC fans in other blogs and looked past them as well. I liked past them as well, not out of the novelty of them, but because such attempts, while interesting artistically perhaps, are attempts to discount victories (by either conference) which have been earned on the field. If I want conference strength debate, I would rather look at Sagarin Rankings or Bill Trocchi's attempts to rank conferences frankly. At least there are elements of objectivity in those, as there are in at least the BCS computer rankings which put LSU and OSU in the title game.
I don't spend much time with them, though. While I may have inadvertently done so in the past, and will almost certainly join in when something offends particularly egregiously, it pales in comparison to games like we get to watch Monday.
You are right about your list of what must be vexing SEC fan comments on the Big 10. You must also recognize that we fans of SEC teams have read about Big 10 championships going back 100 years, NFL recruits, alleged educational superiority, Civil War references, racial and zenophobic name calling, southern bashing (something that some Big 10 fans are unusually fond of and adept at) and more. So it goes both ways, and very little of it (with the exception of NC's) can be justified empirically or ethically.
The thing that I think I find most interesting is that we have also read all year and again from you in your post, that "We were 2-1 in Bowls against you last year" when, as you will surely agree, that one loss last year trumped everything else. It happened. It's history, but it happened. We have also been continually asked to "wait until Bowl Season and see."
OK, bowl season is here. I would humbly suggest that SEC fans can take pride in what they have seen thus far. So can Michigan . . great win. So can OSU, for being in the title game. I think that the only thing that matters is not conference strength or region bashing but the game Monday. I'm sure you will agree that the two right teams are there based on more than much of the spurious arguments we get for the obverse.
I'm hoping, with respect for both teams, for a good game and clear outcome. I will be here to offer my congratulations and take your earned right to smack me if my Tigers lose . . promise. I will also be here if my Tigers win in order to report the score (nothing more, unless I happen to get egregiously offended by spurious arguments and excuses of course).
Best to both teams, and . . .
Geaux Tigres!
SasHey, joey jack nasty, thanks for despising confederates and hillbillies. Now, do us a huge favor. Convince all your damn yankees to move the hell back north where they belong!
And I'll laugh about your suicidal thoughts when OSU gets trounced again (9 is a charm!) by LSU!look, Big ten do not take this the wrong way but your slow, now im not saying your slothlike but michigan was slower than florida but it did not mean that they were the worse team, i think that michigan did a gerat job of using their strengths in the game, by using their tremendous size they wer able to make the o-line of the gators look puny. UM also did a great job utilizing the skills of their fast players to attack florida, now if OSU does the same then we may see a very competitive NC game, BUT you have to remember that LSU is huge and fast while florida lacked in size they more than make up for it, their smallest d-line men is 290. Now what OSU has to do is beat these guys off the line and get wells going, if that does not happen then i am agraid that OSU will become hawaii and boeckman will become the late brennan, and if you think marcus howard was big
(6'0, 220) wait till you see tarvaris jackson(6'4,293) kill boeckman.can someone who is all wise and powerful tell me why the media and sportswriters are always dowplaying the uga bulldogs? i mean last night the only thing i heard was well hawaii's overrated and their just happy to be here when before the game i was hearing how the warriors offense couldn't be stopped and the only way we could win was to keep the ball away from them, then when we are dominating the announcer goes on a tirade about he cannot beleive that uga is still playing hard in the 4th quarter and they should lay off the poor, innocent, warriors and let them enjoy the trip, i blew up i was pissed all uga is done is got screwed by everyone who thinks we're just a team that got lucky, the last three times we have gone to a bcs bowl wse have been stuck with the lowest ranked of the bcs teams(fsu,wvu,uh) now i know that wvu was good but no one knew that before they played us, so every year we get the scenario, if you win it doesn't matter because your opponent was overrated and if we lose it oh my god how could you lose to them. i think the reason why uga was playing hard in the forth quarter was just to demoralize hawaii and then the announcers start insulting us, well if you do not want us to beat up on the loveable losers why don't you grow some and let us play somebody.Who cares that the SEC is 6-2 and the Big 10 is 3-4? All you SEC fans like to hide behind big numbers and self-serving stats while all the time the most purest measure of conference vs. conference performance is staring you in the face.
Perhaps you don't like the most purest measure of conference vs conference evidence because it doesn't support your delusional SEC is the greatest conference broken record.
The SEC was 1-4 last year head to head with the Big 10 and is so far, 1-1 this year.
Quit twisting the stats, numbers and speculation to support your heartfelt wishes and come back to reality. Head-to-head shows you are all wrong, live with it and get over it.
Regards to all!I think the Big 12 has clearly been the most overrated conf. I see no school this season that I think even qualifies for a 'very good' label. Okla, which most claim to be the best Big 12 team, clearly would have much difficulty competing for conf titles in anything but the ACC. Mizzou has twice shown it cannot handle OKLA, and Kansas is worse than Mizzou. Before the bowls I had thought Texas #2 in the Big 12, but Texas may actually be a bit better than OKLA.Sas,
I could not agree with you more in theory; however, the reason that most Big Ten fans will throw out the number 2-1 is because of #1 in my last posting. Most (but certainly not all) SEC fans love to indicate that the top six to eight teams would go undefeated in the lowly Big Ten. If that were in fact true, how on earth did a mighty SEC team lose to a lowly Big Ten team?
Bottom line is that both conferences turn out spectacular players, and have very good teams at the top of the conference. If you belive the pundits, the SEC has better middle of the road teams, which I'm willing to concede, but that does NOT equate to an Auburn or Alabama or Arkansas running the table in the Big Ten.
As I've posted many times, you are one of the few rational SEC fans out there, and if more fans (from both sides of the argument) would support their team first, and their conference second, I think that the game could be a lot more fun for everyone.
As an OSU fan and a Big Ten fan, I get tired of hearing how slow the Big Ten is. And when a "slow" team like UM (whom everyone discounted as a patsy when OSU beat them) puts up 500 yards of offense on UF...well, that's part of where my "you made the bed, now sleep in in" comment came from.
All I know is this...my OSU Buckeyes are playing for their third national championship in six years. Only FSU can claim that (and they did it three years in a row!) So call my Bucks slow, ignorant, or whatever...but Jim Tressel has done a great job of returning the Buckeyes to former glory.
And Charles, give it a rest. OSU has certainly "met" expectations. Your message is getting tired. Go beat up on an Oklahoma fan for awhile since they have lost four bowl games in a row.for UGAFAN7 - I am certainly not all wise and powerful, but I can read and can understand simple facts. The regular season lasts three months or so and I am not ready to throw it out of any analysis. UGA was left out of the NC mix because it failed to take care of job one in the regular season. More than that it did not qualify for its conf title game. Boast about the Florida victory as much and as loudly as you want, but Florida easily handled a troubled but talented Tennessee team. Georgia could not do that. Voters are politically correct people who do not want to offend the small pond schools and the little frogs that do well in them. But I would have thought that Georgia people would have more pride than to boast about beating up on a little frog that strayed from its pond. Brennan confirmed what some of us have been saying all season. Hawaii had never seen anything like Georgia or the crowd, and the fact is that most teams in the SEC, Big 10 and some of the other majors spend most of their season in such situations.
I think Georgia fans should take pride in the fact that in the latter part of the season they gave an indication that they may truly challenge for SEC leadership next year. I honestly think the SEC is too tough a conf to predict a clear frontrunner at this point, but I think Georgia may now have achieved the level at which it can compete.for bgault - I certainly will give it a rest. And since you say that OSU has met expectations and not fallen down these past two years let me offer heartfelt wishes that OSU meets your NC expectations next week just as they did last year. I also hope that next season's results meet your expectations on the same level as they did this year. I say heartfelt wishes, but I am totally amused by your comments of meeting expectations. The next time the people who write jokes for Lettermen et al go on strike I think you should take advantage of that opportunity and send them some of your material. I sincerely believe you would do well.When will the rest of America wake up and realize that the B10 is to slow uses antiquated offensive and defensive schemes. That the B10 players are not up to par with the SEC and no matter how many games they win they never will be. You could go 13-0 and you would still be to slow and not as good ath(a)letes. The Buckeyes dont belong in the national championship game despite having the 2nd best record in football.
The BCS commitee should realize that the only way to match up the BCS games is to play 10 of the sec teams against each other. As the 10th worst SEC team is as good as any of the best teams from other conferences in America PERIOD(.)
Buckeye fans dont be mad just think of it as them doing you a favor. You cant compete. You have no chance. The SEC is just to good, to fast, to dominating.
I think the SEC should also be a another division in the NFL. Yes they are that good.
(Satire)I am so sick of the whole whos better Big 10 or SEC there are good teams in both, as a Michigan fan it pains me but I wish Ohio State good luck in the NC game not because I hate LSU or the SEC but it would be nice to see a Big 10 team with the ever so flawed national championship when will we get a play off system?can someone please tell me who finished second in the big 10. Every listing has illinois listed as second in the conference...but, michigan beat illinois.Dave and Omagus,
How dare you post comments relevant to the subject matter! You are soiling the Obese 11 - SEC mud slinging!
My appreciation to those of you who have posted spirited and reasoned arguments that stand out amidst the trash talking and back biting. Never more so than this season, the rest of us have been shouted down by the conference chauvinists. In the true spirit of being a college football fan, I offer you, "Wait 'til next year!"Larry-
I understand why you think I'm being harsh, but my ratings were made in relation to the SEC's reputation as the greatest and most dominant conference ever. I respect the SEC and believe that it's an excellent conference. But when we look at their results, we see that their reputation is seriously overblown. That's all I hoped to say. If you believe that Miss. St. beating UCF or Kentucky barely defeating a depleted FSU, etc. enhances or confirms the SEC's rep as the #1 country in America, I beg to differ. As a matter of fact, I feel that such results prove that the SEC is no better than any other BCS conference excluding the overmatched Big East.Just another Michigan fan wishing Ohio State good luck against LSU as much as I hate Ohio state it would be great to see a big 10 team with the flawed National championship. There are good teams in the Big 10 and the SEC and any team can be beaten on a given day I am just hoping for a good game whoever wins.a win is a win at the end of the day. You will never see an asterik on any schedule denoting if a team barely won, or not. A WIN IS A WIN.
Big 10 is 3-4 in bowl games. SEC is 6-2 in bowl games.Can someone please tell me why, one year ago, when Florida's d-line owned Ohio State's o-line it was because there is an appreciable difference in speed between the SEC and the Big 10...now we fast forward to the present (or at least last night) and we see the same thing happen, West Virginia's d-line totally owned Oklahoma's o-line in an eerily familiar way to last year's game, but this time, lo and behold, it has nothing to do with a vast difference in speed, it has to do with the fact that Oklahoma was not prepared...Why the difference? Also, everyone dogs the Buckeyes, take a look and compare the Buckeyes to these sooners who have lost there last 4 BCS bowl games.Charles,
As I've already posted...OSU is playing for their third national championship in six years in the BCS era. Only FSU can make that claim. And NO SEC team can make that claim.
OSU's record in NC games is a very respectable 1-1.
So explain to me again why I should consider last season, or this season for that matter, a failure? Because some Florida fan is pissed that his defending national champions couldn't win their division or conference, much less have a shot at the national championship? You were the better team on gameday last year. But, this year...you had a Ron Zook season...nine wins and a bowl loss. Have fun with that. How's it feel to be the loser of the biggest upset so far this bowl season? Look in the mirror about "failed expectations."
Go Bucks!By the name you can tell that I am a OSU fan. GO BUCKEYES!!! That being said, I think that the BCS game on Monday is going to be a great game. LSU is a very talented team and I wish them the best of luck. However, contrary to popular belief, the SEC is not the end all to be all of college footbal. I truly believe that these 2 teams will fight to the final seconds of the clock. I also realize the OSU could very well lose this one. I just pray to the football gods that this game will not be another blowout like last year against Florida. Win or lose, OSU is IMO the better football team in this matchup, I just hope that they can go out on the field and shut up all of the doubters and Buckeye haters!!!@BGault
Maybe you were exaggerating for effect, but seriously? What you've posted is in no way a representation of SEC football fans.
1. Almost every SEC fan, at some point this season, has spouted off about how the top six to eight teams of the SEC would go undefeated in every other conference in America.
Come on, no one thinks that Kentucky, Alabama or Mississippi State could go undefeated in any conference. Even the most zealous SEC fan could admit that.
2. Almost every SEC fan has, at some point this season, brought up 41-14 as the benchmark for why the SEC is superior to every other conference in America.
Granted, this claim may have been over-used, but it did happen. On that day, the SEC's best completely dominated the Big Ten's best. Play that game ten times, and maybe Ohio State wins three of ten. Who knows? All we know is that on that day Florida came out on top in a big way, and you can't ignore that.
3. Almost every SEC fan has, at some point this season (seeing a trend here?), indicated that EVERY conference champion not from the SEC would lose at least three games in the mighty SEC.
Again, maybe some exaggeration. I don't think many SEC fans believe that USC or Oklahoma would have three SEC losses. BUT, in fairness, those teams racked up two losses in their own conferences, so who knows? Maybe they would lose three games in the SEC.
4. Almost every SEC fan has continously spewed garbage about SEC speed, and slow-footed midwesterners, since the time Ted Ginn, Jr. hurt his foot in LAST YEAR'S game.
We aren't just making this up. Much of this comes from SEC opponents. Just ask Hawaii about SEC speed. The margin is nowhere as wide as is sometimes claimed, but there is no question that the top SEC teams usually field the best athletes in the country.
5. SEC fans relish the opportunity to throw out statistics to support their purported conference superiority (there's that 41-14 again), but don't evaluate the situation in it's entirety (2-1 record of the Big Ten vs. SEC last year).
I don't even have a comment here. All everyone ever does in these blog comments is throw out whatever statistic supports their claim. If anything, Big Ten fans are the ones throwing out more stats.
6. SEC fans will continuously call any ranked team not from the SEC "overrated" and indicate that they play a "soft" schedule, and when said "soft" teams beat an SEC team, there are more excuses than I've ever heard in my life.
By putting things in quotes, does that make them not true? Ohio State did play a soft schedule this year. Whether you want to admit it or not, the Big Ten is down this year. Pac-10 teams are regularly over-rated because they play in a weak conference (see: Arizona State). I'm not going to make excuses for Florida losing to Michigan. I didn't personally watch the game, but I will credit where it is due. But your point is probably correct, there are a lot of excuses made by SEC fans about other conferences' schedules.
7. SEC fans will interchangeably argue about conference strength and individual team strength, and will pick statistics to "back up" their claim ignoring the big picture. (i.e. - SEC is best conference because of 41-14, but we don't want to hear 1-2 vs. Big Ten)
I think this basically repeats your points #2 and #5.
So anyway, just wanted to clarify some of those points. Sorry for the super-long post.Stonefly-
That's an excellent point. Hopefully all the SEC homers will take it to heart and shut their pie-holes about other people's results and schedules. A win is a win. Is total hypocrisy a southern tradition or what?Let me take a moment to explain to all of you who would like to see a playoff system. We in fact have one. Just look at he SEC regular season schedule. This is the playoffs. The SEC championship game which is played in the Georgia Dome every year is the college equivalant of the Super Bowl.
It does not matter how the rest of the bowl games play out. We all know that the winner of the SEC championship game is the TRUE National Champions.
If you rearrange the letters of Southeastern Conference. It spells
NATIONAL CHAMPIONShypocricy lives in all parts of the world. y-town...let's break it down here - nobody can ever say their conference is better than any other conference. It's a debate for morons because nobody can, or will, win. I have many friends from Big 10 country that say the exact same things as "typical" SEC fans. The bottom line is this - Passionate fans believe in their conference and are vocal about it. I really don't care who's conf is better. What get's me is the excitement level. I don't know about other conferences, but the SEC is very exciting.
Here's what I do care about...17 of 22 UGA starters are coming back next year. This very young team, with 3 freshmen offensive linemen grew up early in the season. They rocked the country after two dissapointing losses. remember last year when Vanderbilt and Kentucky beat us. We bounced back from that too. No, we didn't end up like Tennessee two years ago (not bowl eligible). We beat three ranked teams to finish off the season. We did the same thing this year. That's excitement and worth debating.Rocky Top -
My entire posting there was meant to be over the top because of a couple of things.
As a Big Ten fan, an OSU fan, and a football fan in general, it's upsetting to me that we can't just enjoy good football when we see it - and that we have to try to downplay or destroy another team's and conference's success as somehow being inferior.
SEC fans, for the most part, or the most egregious of the offenders here. If the Big Ten is in fact so slow and overmatched by speed ... how the hell did Michigan hang with Florida at all, much less win the game? Everyone was quick to point to the USC game last year as "exposing" Michigan and the Big Ten as a fraud, and yet when what amounts to essentially that same Michigan team beats a supposedly superior, faster, UF team (ranked #9 and boasting the current Heisman Trophy winner) - the excuses started flowing faster than alcohol in a New Orleans bar. "Michigan was too experienced" is my personal favorite. Somehow winning the National Championship and the SEC Championships last year didn't give Florida any "experience?" And, nobody wants to admit that the likes of Mario Manningham and Arrington are just as fast as anyone on Florida's team; yet they ran roughshod all over the Florida secondary. The "slow" defensive ends of UM gave Tim Tebow fits, and contained him all day. If the Florida athletes are soooooo superior, how did this happen? All we heard last year was how overmatched the Big Ten was due soley to the "speed" factor.
And, unfortunately, there have been some over the top posters who HAVE in fact indicated that the top six to eight teams in the SEC would run the table in the "slow" Big Ten.
And while 41-14 was a whipping, and I'll admit that readily...it does not define the entire conference. I think that's where most Big Ten fans get their shorts in a bunch.
Good football is good football, no matter the conference. Hopefully, Monday's game is a competitive, hard fought contest. To LSU fans out there - good luck to your team.
Go Bucks!I guess I owe all the ND fans an appology all these years I thought they were the most arrogant, ignorant people on earth.for bgault - Something else you are very good at is misrepresenting what others say. I stated that OSU has recently fallen short of the standards of excellence it has established. That's far removed from stating that OSU is a failure. In fact I have stated several times that OSU is playing for its third in a row Basketball/football NC and that is something to be proud of.
I responded to Hyde who questioned why OSU received so much criticism. I stated that OSU was falling short of past standards. My analysis of OSU for next season is the following. Illinois should improve as Zook recruits are a year better. Michigan will likely improve as Rodriguez injects some new optimism. Michigan has almost beaten OSU twice lately and Illinois already did so. If OSU maintains its same level of play next year as this year I could easily see 2 - 3 regular season losses. Now are you really disputing this analysis and making the claim that there is no need for OSU to improve its level of play? How about a straight answer to a question once instead of fabricating what someone else says?BGault - The SEC is in fact the most egrigious fans for one reason only - because you are a Big 10 fan. If you were an SEC fan, you would say the same about Big Ten fans.
In my humble opinion, too many people have fallen for the ESPN analyst hype of the "speed of the SEC". And, I think OSU and Big 10 fans are bitter that Florida spanked OSU last year. I guess it comes down to bragging rights.
I know a few thing are for sure. The Dawgs have a great record against Big Ten teams. The Buckeyes have never beaten us. The Buckeyes are 0-8 against SEC teams (biggest blemish on their storied history). And, the Dawgs beat the living crap out of TWO heisman candidate quarterbacks.for Eric-y-town A win is a win and you are thus claiming that Hawaii's overtime defeat of La Tech is just as significant as OSU defeating Michigan or Texas. It also suggests that you derive as much pleasure from OSU defeating Akron as defeating Michigan. I guess I do not believe that you have thought your statement through. And tell the Hawaii people that the Georgia nightmare was just another loss as they swim back to their islands.stonefly- Illinois and Michigan finished tied for second in the Big 10 this year (both with 6-2 conference records). Even though Michigan beat Illinois head to head that does not affect the final standings (for instance, if a 10-1 michigan team beat an 11-0 OSU team to end the season, they would share the conference championship). Illinois got the nod over Michigan for the Rose (making them the second team taken from the Big Ten in bowl selection) because they beat the conference champion and finished with a better overall record (9-3 vs 8-4).
Anyway, I'll chime in on the discussion of the hour - the SEC is a great, deep conference.. but college football this year lacked even one truly elite team. I don't think there's an appreciable difference in athleticism among the nations top teams. I do think the two most deserving teams were selected for the NC and the winner, no matter which way it goes, will clearly have the most quality bowl win and most impressive resume for the whole season.
Anyone can beat anyone any given day, so don't make too much from all these other exhibition games. The only game that matters is being played on Monday night, and the winner will be the best team in college football for 2007.
PS, I've been a staunch supporter of all this Big Ten cameraderie, but at this point I can't take it anymore. Congratulations Michigan on the big exhibition win, it turns out you're good for something. Now let's let things get back to normal.
We don't give a damn for the whole state of Michigan, the whole state of Michigan, the whole state of Michigan...I don't know how OSU could ever hope to contain all that LSU team speed. Once again, as they have throughout the history of college football, the SEC speed and athleticism will dominate a slow and fat Big Ten team.
Big Ten teams don't even deserve to be on the field with SEC teams. It is a different (and better) brand of football being played in the SEC. If the Patriots were to play in the SEC they would be a .500 team.B - I'm an SEC fan and that's ridiculous. Please back up your comments with facts. Besides, LSU is probably faster than the rest of the SEC.Well Stewart, it appears that makes 3 blowouts for the BCS games, but I'm pretty sure you were thinking it would have been OU over WVU instead of the Mountaineers running roughshod over the Sooners. Don't feel bad though, you probably couldn't have been MORE incorrect with your prediction. :)From 2002 to 2006, the Big Ten was 8-6 against the SEC in bowl games. Since 1997, the record is 14-14.
Humm... the facts seem to suggest that the SEC and Big Ten are about equal over recent history. But as we all know we can throw facts to the wind. The real 'fact' is that the SEC dominates the Big Ten year in and year out and the speed and athleticism of the SEC will allow them to dominate forever!!for b - I'm with stonefly. Comments like yours are the primary reason there is so much animosity. BTW if your brain was in tune with your mouth you would have bet big money on Florida over Mich.Stonefly-
Once again, we agree. The conference debate is useless. Now, if we can only get the media and the SEC homers to put the kibosh on the thing, we'll be okay.
Congrats on UGA having 17 of 22 startes returning next year. Unfortunately for you, many of the power programs are in a similar boat. As much as this year has been tainted by competitive mediocrity, next year will be known for its fierce level of competitive excellence.e y town -
I think it's safe to say that every year there are young powerful teams.
what I like about UGA is that this year, we will finish in the top 5 with 17 freshmen and sophmores. Next year, we will finish in the top five with 17 freshmen, sophmores and juniors. Wait until the college world meets caleb king (rb), aj green (wr), and an experienced Knowshon Moreno, who really only played the last part of the season.Charles-
You would do me a great favor by thoroughly answering one question for me: In detail, can you point to one SEC bowl win from 2007-08 that truly reflects the belief that the SEC is far and away the most dominant conference in the country and that excellent teams from other conferences would be mere mediocrities if they played in the SEC?e y town -
The SEC is 6 and 2 in bowl games this year. 6 and 2! What is the big 10's record this bowl season?
ChipStonefly-
If I was voting, I wouldn't put UGA in the top five. Once all the games are played, my top five would be comprised of a combination of the following teams: LSU-OSU winner, USC, WVU, Mizzou, and the Va Tech-Kansas winner. Depending how tight the NC game turns out, I might even put both LSU and OSU in the top five and eliminate Mizzou because they only beat a lackluster Arkansas. Why no UGA? Because UGA proved nothing by beating Hawaii other than the ability to beat freakin' Hawaii. They suffer because they drew the weakest bowl game amongst the contenders for a spot in the top 5. There has to be a tie-breaker somewhere, and that's the fairest, most logical option. Sorry, but in my opinion all that UGA should take from their bowl win is a nice paycheck.I understand what the SEC's bowl record is and I give them credit for that. Good job. But where's the signature butt-kicking win over a worthy opponent that will make all of us runner-ups truly accept the SEC's preeminence? Come on Charles. Anybody?e y town -
So, by your theory, only a big time win dictates dominance? That's stupid. Unless we matched up Big 10 number 1 vs sec number 1, b19 #2 vs sec #2, etc...would we know the more dominant conference.
Why don't you answer your own question, name the dominant big10 win in this bowl season?
See, it proves nothing.Charles,
I think in a former life you were an attorney or politician, because you change your position fequently and without a second thought.
You have stated numerous times over the course of this season that OSU has "fallen short of the tradition of excellence" and yet...no Buckeye team has ever played for three national titles in a six year span. So, according to my math...the Jim Tressel is the most successful era in the history of Ohio State. You can make arguments about the Woody era if you like...but prior to Sweater in 2002...it had been since 1968 since they won a national championship! (Unless you want to count some of the "lesser" polls voting the Bucks #1) So unless I'm missing something here...the tradition from 1969 forward has been not so good.
Of course, being the versed historian that you are...I'm sure you're relying on childhood memories from the 1950's and 1960's about how good the Buckeyes are...but OSU fans can't forget Earle Bruce or John Cooper, as you apparently have.
So dude...get over it. I don't have a beef with you personally...but you've been spewing the "failed expectations" and "history of excellence" crap for some time now...and that doesn't change the fact that no team in the BCS era (except for FSU) has played for three consensus NC games in a six year span. Go be mad at Urban Meyer for not having a real running back or for letting the underachieving Big Ten beat powerhouse Florida in their own backyard.Eric Y-town
That signature win that you are asking about will be on Monday. IMO LSU will win BIG.Stonefly...
How about a slow, overmatched, UM team beating speedy, unbeatable, UF in their own backyard. Oh, and did I mention that Tim Tebow won the Heisman and had a mediocre game against that "overmatched" UM defense.e y town... You are that guy that just says stuff to get under someones skin. I think it's rather cute and definately cliche. Nice work. You have zero basis for any of your comments.
UGA did get a terrible BCS draw. Oh well, that's what happens. We made the best of it. We sacked the 3rd place heisman candidate 8 times. And that was only in 3 quarters. He left the game completely beaten up. He had 160 yards throwing which is considerably less than half of his average. We crushed them. Should we have crushed them. Yes. Did we crush them. Yes. Btw, it doesn't matter where we are ranked in the post season. It means nothing.The most noteworthy Big Ten win in this bowl season occurred when unranked Michigan defeated top ten, defending national champ, Heisman winning SEC Florida in Florida. But that doesn't matter because I believe that the Big Ten is only on a par with every other other BCS conference except the weak Big East. I'm not trying to prove that the Big ten is better, I'm just trying to figure out why y'all think the SEC in numero uno.The only thing I'm trying to do is point out how wack and illogical your SEC self-love is to the rest of the world. Get over yourself dude. The rest of the world plays good football too and we can prove it. If you can prove me wrong, please do so.B Gault -
So you have bought into the ESPN analyst hype about the SEC speed myth. This myth is absolutely ridiculous. This theory is based on one game and one game only - Florida (41) and OSU (14). In that game, OSU appeared to be unprepared, manifesting itself in a perceptive speed difference. That was one game.
If anyone has ever played sports before, you will know that great coaching can beat speed. One team can have the fastest players on the field, but if they are not well coached (Floridas Defense), then they will get beat.
I give it up for Michigan. They played great. Maybe the best those seniors have ever played. Henne was unstoppable and so were the receivers. They gave Florida their 4th loss of the season. It's pretty obvious that even if they are the fastest, they weren't well coached.
As for Tebow, I think June Jones had it right...he (tebow) is a system quarterback. He tried to silence the critics [in their bowl game] by being a pocket passer. He's just not a pocket passer. I think if you look at Florida's offensive production you will find a majority of it comes from two players - tebow and harvin. They are incredibly unbalanced offensively.Yo Sal!
But what about in the SEC's previous 6 bowl wins? Not a dominant performance in the bunch? Come on! You can do better than that!E y town -
Question: Who is your "numero uno"?
Answer: [your answer]
I think it's safe to say that passionate fans all think their team, and/or conference, is the best. Well, except Notre Dame fans.
So a Georgia fan is going to think that Georgia is "numero uno" and that the SEC is "numero uno". You think that [your answer] is "numero uno" and [your answer]'s conference is "numero uno".
This is just competitive nature.
Now, you seem very bitter about the fact that all the talking heads at ESPN have claimed SEC as the fastest conference. Let me make a suggestion to you....When someone wants to debate about conference speed, don't. It's a completely ridiculour argument.
Also note that 3 other teams beat Florida and Tim Tebow this year. It wasn't that great of an accomplishment. I hand it to the very classy Loyd Carr for coaching his team to victory.Eric
I'm just saying that will be the SECs Signature win. And to be honest, it won't be that much of a win because I believe OSU is highly overrated anyway...however they DO deserve to be there playing against LSU.e y town -
a win is a win buddy. You are probably that guy, aren't you. I would say you are just as ridiculous as your "self-loving" sec fans.
There is nothing wrong with passion and one mans love for their team and/or conference.
I'm having fun chatting with you because you when you do bring the facts, you dismiss them with other qualifiers. A win is a win big guy.I think OSU is a great team. I don't think they are overrated. They are 11 and 1 and won the Big 10 conference.
However, I do think they are not as battle tested as other teams. Their out of conference schedule was a cake walk. We all saw what happened when a very mediocre Illinois team early success on OSU. They folded. They didn't know what to do. Why is this? Because they didn't battle anyone. They crushed all but one of their opponents. This is why they are not overranked. And this is why they don't know what to do when they are down.Stonefly-
The speed argument is indeed idiotic, and as I said before, I don't hold conference or team biases. I think that this year's OSU and LSU teams are benefiting from a mediocre year in college football. Neither one is all that great. But hey, that's what good teams do, they exploit conditions to their advantage. The Big Ten, SEC, PAC 10, and Big 12 are equally competitive. I hold no personal biases, but I do enjoy challenging SEC homers and their unfounded superiority complex. My only regret is that I can not directly challenge the biased media. Such is the plight of the average guy. I do see that much of the media has come around to seeing things my way, with the only notable exceptions being the egregiously unprofessional duo of Mark May and Petros Papadakis. They should both be fired and consigned to working the high school football beat in North Dakota.e y town -
Don't you think that all college teams were a product of this years "mediocre" season?
Also, how did OSU and LSU "exploit" their way into the NC game. They played their regular season games just like everyother team. That doesn't make since.
You say you hold no biases, yet you call SEC fans homers. Do you hold all sec fans accountable for the sec idiots our there?
Who is your team?Stonefly-
When I say "expoited" I mean that the title game was essentially up for grabs this year and LSU and OSU did just enough to get there. Any number of teams were worthy this year, but it came down to who screwed up the least. I'm an Ohio State fan but I've always enjoyed and respected the SEC, Big 12, and PAC 10 as much as I do the Big Ten. I find it disappointing that a lot of SEC fans and the media feel the need to falsely elevate the SEC far and above what amounts to great competition. I feel it's unfair, illogical, and bad for the game. On one of the bowl game broadcasts, the commentators mentioned that over the past 5 years, the SEC and Big Ten are 11-11 against each other. Why so many choose to ignore this fact and many others I have no idea. Unfortunately, very few smart and fair minded SEC fans find their way to these message boards. With that said, most Buckeye fans aren't anything to write home about either, but for the most part we give respect where respect is due and we understand that our competition makes us great. I'm sorry, but I find that quality lacking in a lot of SEC folks. We want to talk football as equals, you want to talk smack as the boss. Maybe it's a cultural thing.I will start with I am an OSU fan.
MichiganMan - You said that OSU did not face the same Michigan team that played the other day cause of injuries. It is football you play with injuries, Beanie Wells played all year long on a broken foot and still posted over a 1000 yards. Last night Steve Slaton went out of the game and WVU did not miss a beat. LSU had to play most of their season with a banged up Glenn Dorsey. Injuries are football and the good teams win dispite injuries. Michigan whines about what could have been.
The SEC vs Big 10 it is a great arguement for the media cause it gets us all to tune in and listen to their pointless chatter but the best conference in College football changes from year to year. The Big 10 is in a down year, no question but it takes nothing away from the OSU or Michigan's win. OSU played a cake schedule this year, but they also scheduled home and away with USC for for the next two years and then with Miami. What other team does that besides Cal and Tenn?
This NC game should be good and it will probably come down to who controls the line Glenn Dorsey or Eric Barton. By the way for the LSU fans saying the Big 10 runs an anemic stlye of football you might want to know that your Head coached is from the Big 10 as well as the your D-coordinator. And they run a very similiar offense and defensive scheme as many of the Big 10 schools. This will be a tough game which will come down to who wins in the trenches and isn't that really what almost all football games come down to?Stonefly...
I'm pretty sure that the first game of the season against a top five Mizzou team qualifies as "battle tested" for the Illini. Their downfall was one ridiculously lucky play for 'SC when the game was close and turnovers. With that fourteen point swing, the whole dynamic of the game changed, and if you don't think so...you're fooling yourself.
And, I personally don't buy into the SEC speed thing...but the media pundits, and for the most part, the average SEC fan, sure does grasp at that argument for all it's worth. And then, when a supposedly slow team such as Michigan beats a supposedly faster team such as Florida...well, those SEC people retreat with "it's the media that's doing it." Well...no, it's not. It's the average SEC fan just as much as it's Mark May. You obviously are not the average SEC fan, and for that I commend you...but it doesn't erase the stupidity or ignorance of a lot of hte arguments used about why OSU lost to UF last year. If those arguments held true then...shouldn't they also hold true now to refute that obvously bad claim?@Eric Y Town
I would think that Big Ten and SEC fans could at least agree that it's okay to look down on the Pac-10 (except USC).Rocky Top-
Yeah, you're probably right about modern PAC 10 football. If Neuheisel can get things going at UCLA, Erickson keeps up the good work at ASU, and UW finally replaces Ty with a real coach, we might be singing a different tune in a couple years. I'm definitely looking forward to that OSU-USC game next year. Even though I'm an OSU fan, my early pick has to be SC, mainly because they have home field. But I'll reconsider that if Gholston and Animal return.here's my honest opinion about the sec speed myth.
this myth was decided when OSU was arguably much slower than Florida in the NC game last year. But that's just one game.
then, analyst invented the myth.
OSU and BIG 11 fans became incredibly bitter that their beloved buckeyes not only got CRUSHED, but that the analyst said they were slow
SEC fans claimed bragging rights.
Big 11 fans became hyper-sensitive to this myth and become visually agitated when this myth is brought up.
Big 11 fans agitation perpetuates novice SEC fans to remind them how "slow" they are.
I think the myth is stupid but please take note big 11 fans ---- don't take it to heart. It was just OSU that was slow in one game...not the entire big 11intersting facts.
SEC has 3 national titles over the last 9 years.
If LSU wins, SEC will have 4 national titles over 10 years.
That certainly won't help the Big 11 vs. SEC argument.Just a kind reminder that this year's winner is next year's loser. Just ask Florida and Michigan. As an OSU fan and alumni, I can easily remember the frustration of losing to Michigan year after year. Now, I am sure they feel the same. The point is, you can brag all you want, and on this blog, there is plenty of it, but one day, you'll have to eat your words. For all of the Tiger and Buckeye fans who seem so confident of winning Monday, just remember that saying "good luck" before the game as opposed to "you suck" is alot less painful the day after.
One thing I wanted to point out about the bowl records so far: the Big 10 is 3-4, true, not a great record, but I do think it bears mentioning that every Big 10 team that lost has faced an opponent ranked higher than them. Not sure this is true of any other conference. ie, the Big 10 has won the games they were "supposed" to win.In the last six 10 years there have been 5 maybe 6 teams that have been in the National Championship discussion consistently. USC, OSU, Texas, LSU, VT and Oklahoma even though they lost their last 4 bowls. One from each of the conferences and maybe two from the Big 12. The cream of the crop tends to be the same great programs with other teams coming in for a year or two and then disapearing. But the top does not change that much and each conference seems to have a stud program. And how many programs get to the National Championship twice in 6 years when they are supposed to be rebuilding either their entire defense (2002 Buckeyes 9 staters went to the NFL after the 2001 season ) or their entire offense (2007 Buckeyes lost a Heisman QB, 2 1st round WRs, starting TE, starting RB and a starting guard all in NFL from 2006 offense).oh yeah -
isn't every teams goal to win. How do you win the ones your "supposed" to win.This is why LSU will win against LSU. Keep in mind that these numbers below are just the facts and reflect the current standings.
OSU has played 2 AP top 25 teams. They went 1 -1
LSU has played 5 AP top 25 teams.
They went 4-1
Intersting isn't it.Football Fan -
If LSU beats OSU, that will mean that in the last 10 seasons, there will be four national titles won by SEC teams..
Tennessee
LSU
Florida
LSU
WOW!Stonefly -
What I meant was that the Big 10 schools that lost, lost to teams ranked higher. The "supposed" part was put in quotes for a reason.
As for your prediction, don't go there. You should have learned by now that a past record means nothing. I am confident that you could dissect a number of teams with similar stats and find they lost their bowl games.oh yeah...
what's the point of this blog if your not supposed to take stats and facts and make predictions?Stonefly - here is a sample of your logic.
OSU beat MICHIGAN.
MICHIGAN beat FLORIDA.
FLORIDA beat KENTUCKY.
KENTUCKY beat LSU.
Therefore, OSU beats LSU.
Wow, I guess past games and stats REALLY DO matter!Firstly, I appreciate MichiganMan rooting for OSU. I am a Buckeye and it is NOT IN MY BLOOD to root for U of Mich so I can feel your inner conflict, BUT..... GOOO BLUEEEE!!!! Pulled the teeth out-a-them-Gators! NNiiccceee. The Big Ten needs a good bowl season to quiet down the haters. Everyone is sooo down on the Big Ten. Georgia may be a bit underrated, but maybe Hawaii played so poorly that Georgia looked like an unbeatable team?? In collge football is is truly 'any given Sunday/Saturday' if the wrong team shows up, they are done. That is what happened in Glendale last year... wrong team came from Ohio... Go Buckeyes!As far as all these predictions are concerned, the team that plays the best will win, simple. Consistency in appearing says something about the program, not the team. Last year there were not many people who KNEW OSU would fall. If they say they did, they just GUESSED correctly. Just give me a good game, preferably with an OSU victory, and then we can get ready for USC in September!!!Here is an interesting stat...All numbers are based on current AP rankings....
The bottom 11 [out of 12] SEC teams played 56 opponents ranked in the AP top 25.
All 11 Big 10 teams played 30 opponents ranked in the top AP top 25.
WOW!
And, going back to the media bias for the SEC and the Speed Myth...Big 10 fans are used to having the media bias. They have had this bias from 50's until just a few years ago. Big 10 fans are not only bitter about how their buckeyes got spanked 41 to 14, but they are also bitter about the fact that they are not the media darlings anymore.Stonefly is right. The Big Ten is a joke. Malcolm Jenkins is going to get smoked by LSU's receivers. Larinaitis will get pounded by the Tigers' o-line and running backs. Boeckman will never be able to find an open receiver. The nightmare goes on and on. LSU has nothing but speed, speed, and more speed. OSU has feet made of lead. The entire country is hoping for an LSU victory against the Buckeyes and that cheeseball Tressel.for eric-y-town I will do you the courtesy of answering your one question although you ignored my one question. I cannot point to a single bowl win that suggests that the SEC is far and away the most superior conference. I cannot point to a number of bowl wins that would suggest this. I cannot even point to regular season wins that would suggest it. I do not even believe that the SEC is far and away the most superior conf. I do think that it is the strongest and deepest, and do believe bowl results and regular season victories support this statement, but I believe the differnces between the SEC and the best of the rest are small. Now how about answering my one question?There has been so much talk on here about SEC v Big Ten that I think people are forgetting about the actual game. As an SEC fan, I must say that I'm a little nervous for LSU. I was shocked when they were given the BCS title bid (I would rather have seen Georgia in it) and I'm still not convinced that LSU is that good. They have given up 24 or more points in six of their last eight games. They got a little lucky in the SEC Championship when Erik Ainge threw those two late picks (one for the game-losing TD) and LSU did not look very good offensively. Basically, the VaTech beating was the peak of their season.
Of course, Ohio State has been solid defensively, and only allowed 20 points or more once all season, in their loss to Illinois. I think they will be motivated to avoid being embarrassed like last season.
BUT, I don't think they are anywhere near as talented as last year's team, and they really haven't won any big games. The biggest was arguably the Penn State game, when they blew out the Nittany Lions in Happy Valley. The Michigan win is a little downgraded because of all Michigan's injuries and OSU's offense frankly looked awful. The loss to Illinois showed that OSU is vulnerable against offenses with dynamic QB play.
If I had to bet, I would take LSU, but I would still be very nervous. I think the game will be closer than many people expect.For the most part, the SEC fans just don't get it. Forget about the speed thing. Wisconsin held up to UT this year. No big speed deal there and it was a close, even game. I think PSU should have been in that game so they could beat UT 2 years in a row, but alas they were taking care of A&M. Michigan State nearly beat #12 BC. If Florida would have beat Michigan, all the SEC fanboys would be screaming about speed and how great the SEC is. Can't we just agree that they're not as far apart as most people say.
Plus, Michgan fumbled on the 1 yard line twice. That score could have easily been 55-35 or even worse. They turned the ball over 4 TIMES and still one. Good teams don't get 4 takeaways and still lose.
Counting last year, Big 10 vs SEC in bowl games gives a 3-2 edge over the SEC. Why is it so hard to understand that these conferences may be fairly close in talent, speed, size, skill, coaching, etc?
Stonefly said "The bottom 11 [out of 12] SEC teams played 56 opponents ranked in the AP top 25.
All 11 Big 10 teams played 30 opponents ranked in the top AP top 25."
Well, maybe that's because of the media bias towards the SEC by over-ranking some teams all year. You tell me that South Carolina deserved to be #6 at one point this season? Kentucky deserved to be top 10? Get real. I'm not saying all SEC teams are bad, I just think that a few of them were ranked much higher than they deserved to be and that skews your data.
Finally, as a sleeper team I have to mention Penn State. 9 offensive and 10 defensive starters return next year. I'm not predicting them as NC's, but they'll be good.Charles-
Thanks for answering my question. I'm sorry but I don't recall ignoring any of your questions. The last I recall, you asked me a question about recruiting and I answered it. Sometimes posts go unseen in the shuffle. Ask me again and I'll gladly respond.
Shookjer-
There are a lot of teams next year that will be loaded. I can't wait. I didn't know that PSU is returning so many starters. That's pretty scary, especially if Clark pans out as a good qb. Nice to know we get you in Columbus.for eric-y-town I do not believe the best teams from other BCS confs would be mere mediocrities in the SEC. I think USC could compete with anyone. It appears that Okla & Texas have lost a step or two but would not be mediocre in any conf. Ditto OSU which I think will lose two or three games next season if it doesn't improve its level of play (USC, Mich, Illinois may each beat OSU, agreed?). WV, Mizzou, Va Tech and BC are too untested for me to predict, but I doubt they would be mediocre. Mich will not be mediocre if it keeps its act together like it did vs Fla.
There are numerous other teams that might not be mediocre in the SEC like Penn St, Wisc and a couple of Pac 10 schools.
You are fond of misquoting me and slamming me for something I did not say. But then I don't feel you single me out either. It just seems to be your approach. Of course you can prove me wrong if you can find one quote in which I said OSU was a failure or the best teams in the country would be mediocre in the SEC.I was thrilled to death that my beloved Wolverines were able to knock an SEC posterboy program down to size. It was a wonderful thing to watch.
I am also loving the pathetic OSU fans for thanking us for taking care of their business. While I can't wait for LSU to lose Monday night, I don't want to get ahead of myself.I HATE OHIO STATE.
The Championship game is a win-win for Michigan fans. OSU loses? AWESOME! LSU loses? Great! Another SEC sweetheart takes a beating.for Eric-y-town I stated my reasons for thinking that Illinois and Mich might have improved teams when they faced OSU next year. I stated simply that if OSU didn't improve from its current level of play whether or not you agreed that both could beat OSU. With USC on its schedule and OSU playing on the same level as they played this year I could easily see OSU with two or three losses in the regular season. Do you agree that it is necessary for OSU to improve its current level of play or do you still insist that OSU is playing to meet your expectations?I like to read opinions of those posters who love college football and are not just about their team/conference.
These are questions for your thoughts on the NC game (please express them over the next few days):
1) When Dorsey was hurt, teams were able to run on LSU; only Illinois ran well on the Buckeyes. The team that wins the rushing battle is most likely to win. Who will that be and why?
2) LSU seems to have the better special teams, especially in kickoff returns. This could be important also, but Brandon Saine could be due to explode one for the Buckeyes. Who wins this battle and why?
3) The pass rush may be the difference in the game. Is Gholston enough of a threat there for the Buckeyes?
4) Doucett, Holliday and Perriloux (if he plays much)have big play potential. Last year in the NC game Florida's longest play from scrimmage was 20 yards. OSU's defense is supposedly better this year. Robiskie, Wells, Boeckman - will they match the Tigers big plays?
5) Coaching - i.e., the 'Vest' versus the 'Bold One'. Who wins this match-up?
Please give your thoughts and reasoning Charles, BGault, and the rest of the regular posters who make solid comments and arguments. Let's have a great discussion.
It has taken ten years to reach the point of having a repeat National Champion in the BCS title game era. Seems like several teams and all the BCS conferences have reached the pinnacle of college football at some point in that time - great for college football - if not for your team.
On Tuesday, we'll recap the NC game and start our predictions for the 2008 season.
I hope it is a great game, our passion for college football deserves it!
Enjoy it!Charles-
Do you, per chance, espouse a neo-conservative political ideology? Just wondering.
Pardon my perceived rudeness. I guess that miscommunication is highly possible on internet message boards. I know that at times I get a bit brazen and emotional, but I am admittedly imperfect.
I've found you to be a poster who continually slams the Big Ten's OOC schedule and their schedule in general, always suggesting that the Big Ten is unworthy of elite status as a result. Your sub-text further suggests that the Big Ten is so weak that even their games against each other do not merit a "rigorous" designation. At the same time, you ignore the same traits in the SEC's OOC schedule and never question or acknowledge the similarities they have with the Big Ten. All I ask is that you be as hard on yourself as you are with others. I admit that the Big Ten, by normal standards, had a somewhat off year that is getting better, but to deny that OSU has a very good and NC game worthy team compared to LSU or any other SEC squad is ridiculous. I see equal weakness in the schedules of nearly all the BCS conference schools. It's not Ohio State's fault that UW is down this year and Va. Tech is pretty good. They still beat UW in Seattle. They also beat Wisconsin, Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue, 5 teams that performed well in bowl games against conference winners and/or highly reputable opponents.
I have no desire for anyone to crown the Big Ten #1 conference in the country. But I do know that you've suggested that they are not worthy of elite status. This is absurd and should be retracted considering the results from this year's bowl games. Win or lose 1/7 in the Big Easy, it has been well proven that the Big Ten can play with anyone and that it's 4 or 5 best teams can beat anyone any day, not everyday, but anyday.collegefootballfan222-
Who anointed you god around here? Do you really think that we need an intermediary that leads us to a discussion of the basics? Your intent is good, but get off the ego trip. It's not all about you man.Buckeyes over LSU...34-17. Get ready for the "Silver Bullets"!!for Eric-y-town I appreciate the conciliatory statements. I do not wish to be argumentative again, but I have openly stated that while I believe that this year's SEC ooc schedule was stronger than the Big 10 it is nothing to be proud of. I saw a preview of next year's LSU ooc and suggested that it shoud make any true fan of the game nauseous. I was quickly informed by an LSU fan that this schedule was not final yet and I hope so. OSU's schedule this past year would be strong in comparison. I lobbied for teams like Fla & OSU to cancel early games with patsies and play each other for the fans, and ditto Mich/USC.
I am guilty of being down on the Big 10 this year. I have read several analyses that credit the Big 10 with no quality non-conf wins this year. That cannot be solely due to a team like Wash playing poorly.
This is the third time in a row that OSU plays for the basketball/football NC and I have stated that this should be a source of pride. I have stated that with this pride OSU fans should have made no excuses for the Fla loss.
I am also not perfect. Sometimes I embarrass myself with my comments. You may not recall but I stated that Oregon was likely to be clobbered by an enraged Michigan team. But I am sometimes accurate. I have said all year that Hawaii was a joke that had not earned its way into a BCS bowl.
I would hope you would read my comments more carefully. To say that this year's OSU team may not be playing to the level of past excellence may be mistaken, but it is not insulting once you acknowledge that the past excellence of OSU is as good as anyone. I hope we can agree on that. And what do you really think? If OSU plays at the same level nexy year as this isn't two or three losses likely?for Brice - Things do degenerate quickly on these blogs, but what has gone on most of today is mild in comparison. I have yet to be called an idiot once. Usually by this hour at least three bloggers have felt I richly deserved the title. But the day is still young.Charles,
I think you're missing an important point about the quality of OSU's performance this year. I'll be the first to say that they won't go undefeated next year if they play the same as they did this year. But is there a single team, in any sport and at any level, that would say it would be happy to play next year at this year's level?
But here's the point. OSU's starting squad was decimated after last season (Smith, Ginn, Gonzales, Pittman, and many more); that, combined with the disheartening loss to UF, portended a year of struggle and rebuilding in Columbus. Only three losses, in many expert minds, would represent a relative success - and everyone knew that the schedule was more forgiving than usual. The media picked OSU to finish third in the conference.
What happened? These guys came out and played their hearts out - way above anyone's expectations. #1 defense in the nation? I'll take that. Solid offense? Call it a bonus. Next year's Buckeye team may return many of the same personnel; it may not. But whoever does come back, if they put forth the effort and gutsy performance they did this year, playing *beyond expectations*, I'll be proud no matter how many they win or lose.for collegefootballfan222 - I am not an expert as many of these bloggers are. I look more at the big picture. I noted the following -
LSU started looking mortal after Florida beat them up. They immediately lost to KY and struggled many times thereafter. I remember last year when Florida struggled through what many said was one of the most rigorous schedules in the country. But then rested, they clobbered OSU. I wonder if with a month's rest it will be LSU and deja vu all over again. But I am bothered that Michigan handled Florida. Until that game I thought a well managed, talented spread offense would overcome 3 yds and a cloud of dust. Plus I hear the OSU is better defensively this year. So I am not as confident that LSU will take them as I was before Fla/Mich. If both defenses play to their levels I think the LSU offense will make the difference.ALL previous comments relative to other games up to this one DON'T MEAN SQUAT. Woulda, shoulda, coulda don't cut it here. Savvy ???
Focus on this game at hand.
I'm QUITE confident that the Ohio State Buckeyes came to play with INTENSITY and won't embarass. After last year's game when the Florida Gators gave them an 'Old Fashioned' butt kicking, I'm led to believe this is in the back of the player's mind. I'm sure that Jim Tressel won't allow any dumb mistakes. This year's team deserves to be in the national highlight / big dance.
Baby; this is for ALL the marbles. Comprende ?????
Ah; LSU which stands for Lazy, Stupid & Ugly don't deserve to be in this bowl game. They got beat by 2 cupcake teams
Need I say more ??????for getz011 - I was in agreement with everything you said, and I fully expected OSU to move back to an elite level classification (I think there are no elite teams this year), but then I read that 11 OSU juniors had filed for an NFL review. Now I believe that a lot of those juniors will stay at OSU, but I also believe that the best of them might jump early.
You did not address the 11 juniors. Have you heard anything to suggest that the ones who are most needed will be back?Les Miles gambling ways have payed dividends this year all the way up to the NC game. Tressel will have OSU more than ready and LSU will have no more chips to play with when all is said and done. OSU by 6.Charles,
I think the number is 13. There are some huge names: Gholston, Laurinitis, Alex Boone, Robiskie, Hartline, even Boeckman. My sense is that Gholston is a lock to go, but the others aren't giving us much to go on. We'll see how it shakes out. If the offense stays, then next year will be interesting; Tressel's teams reload very quickly on defense.Charles:
I read the blogs regularly, but have refrained from throwing my hat into the ring thus far. It's entertaining. I do have to say that you, Charles, are one of the most considerate and dignified of the posters that I've read over the course of the season. I appreciate your honesty and candor, which you tastefully present with aplomb.
That being said, I would like to point out that Eric's point is a reasonable one. The fact is that no other team in NCAA football has a better record than the Ohio State Buckeyes during the BCS era. And no previous Buckeye program has performed up to Coach Tressel's accomplishments thus far. His current football program is--in fact--the pinnacle of their storied past. Therefore it is understandable that Buckeye fans like Eric take exception to the notion that the current program is somehow lacking when compared with past teams. From reading Eric's blogs, that is what I get out of it. He simply would like reasonable fans such as yourself to acknowledge the program's accomplishments without an asterik.
I do think that you are obviously right about the Buckeyes standing a very good chance at suffering two or three losses next season--IF they fail to improve on offense. But, judging from Coach Tressel's track-record, that is highly unlikely to occur. If I had to give my best guess, I think he will improve the offense and post an 11-1 regular season record. The team has sooooo many underclassmen on the roster that it is incredible. And if Gholston and Laurinaitis return....
Hope this wasn't too long-winded.Laurinaitis stated to the Columbus Dispatch that he loves being a student at tOSU and has decided to return for next year. However, last year Gonzo said the same thing when he filed for an NFL review too; and then flip-flopped to go in the first round.
From what I hear, Gholston is unsure of what he wants to do yet. He wants a chance to earn a national award to cement his legacy (which was abbreviated last year and under-stated this year). That would also ensure him of a first round pick afterwards (which he is not likely to get this year).
Robiskie grew-up with the NFL and is not starry-eyed about it. He really does want a chance to put himself in the record books and to earn a Biletnikov. Also, he really doesn't have the socioeconomic motivation to jump early to the NFL either.
My best guess is that all three of these guys return next season.for the buck guy - I am not an OSU person and my recollections of their past may be distorted. But as a child growing up the Big 10 was always one of the top confs in spite of the fact that it was referred to as the Big 2 and Little 8. That reference had more to do with the success of the Big 2 than it did failures of the Little 8. And it wasn't called the Big 2 because Michigan always dominated. Still it is very possible that Tressel has raised OSU to new standards and the 2006/2007 teams meet those standards as you say. Again saying that the current team falls short of the traditions of the past was not intended to be insulting.Alright, I'll take the bait.
Posted: 4:31 PM by collegefootballfan222
I like to read opinions of those posters who love college football and are not just about their team/conference.
These are questions for your thoughts on the NC game (please express them over the next few days):
1) When Dorsey was hurt, teams were able to run on LSU; only Illinois ran well on the Buckeyes. The team that wins the rushing battle is most likely to win. Who will that be and why?
LSU's defense looked very tired the second half of the season. They were arm tackling a lot, and many of their linebackers and secondary were caught out of position on plays that they had made in weeks 1-5. I'm not sure why that is or was. I think the layoff will help them recover and heal, and will return them to the way there were early in the season.
Illinois ran well on the Buckeyes because Juice Williams had the game of his life, and because Illinois was the better team that day.
I personally think LSU will have an easier time running the ball simply because they have more options. OSU has Beanie Wells and...Beanie Wells. LSU has many talented ball carriers that the Buckeyes need to watch out for.
2) LSU seems to have the better special teams, especially in kickoff returns. This could be important also, but Brandon Saine could be due to explode one for the Buckeyes. Who wins this battle and why?
I think OSU has the edge in special teams, if for no other reason that Jim Tressel places so much emphasis on special teams play. A slight nod, with no real logic behind it.
3) The pass rush may be the difference in the game. Is Gholston enough of a threat there for the Buckeyes?
Vernon Gholston is a man-child, but the schemes the Buckeyes use don't really rely on sacking the quarterback. If memory serves me correctly, the Buckeyes finished in the bottom of the Big Ten in that category. The Buckeyes still rely on the "bend but don't break" theory, and seem content with minimal pressure.
4) Doucett, Holliday and Perriloux (if he plays much)have big play potential. Last year in the NC game Florida's longest play from scrimmage was 20 yards. OSU's defense is supposedly better this year. Robiskie, Wells, Boeckman - will they match the Tigers big plays?
Both teams are equally as explosive as the other. Last year, OSU inexplicably refused to alter their defensive schemes (probably because they too bought into the SEC speed and feared getting beat deep), and the result was a west coast offense bonanza. Dink and dunk and dink again. This game is going to come down to one or two big plays in my opinion. Who makes those plays, I honestly don't know.
5) Coaching - i.e., the 'Vest' versus the 'Bold One'. Who wins this match-up?
Tressel going away. Jim Tressel is 3-1 in BCS bowl games, and is still haunted by the thought that he got outcoached and outschemed by Urban Meyer last year. Sometimes I seriously wonder if Les Miles even has a scheme going.
At the beginning of the year, I indicated that top to bottom I thought LSU was the best team in the country, and I have no reason to change that thinking. But, talent alone does not win the game, as I honestly believe that the Buckeyes were the more decorated and "talented" team last year. But, they got outcoached, outworked, and outmanuvered.
In some respects, I think LSU is going to be doomed to repeat the same fate. 7 of 9 BCS games have been won by the underdog. LSU has heard from Mark May and basically every other media outlet in the country that this game is over before it even starts. Don't think that doesn't weigh on the players...no matter how a coach tries to tune it out, it's a hard message to ignore when someone keeps telling you how good you are.
Buckeyes win a close one -
17-14.And Charles, God love you for admitting my exact point about you remembering the 50s and 60s. Made my day.
The Jim Tressel era is the most successful era in the history of the university. Woody won five national championships (depending on the polls used), and is certainly a tough act to follow. But, for Jim Tressel to continuously be in the national spotlight (something even Woody couldn't do) is nothing short of remarkable in this day and age.
SEC fans trumpet 3 national championships for the conference in the BCS era, but they were all won by different teams. No single SEC team has been dominant (and I don't want to get into the debate about we're so tough nobody can dominate us), while the Buckeyes have continuously been in the picture.
Tradition is important, as is all history...but time marches forward for all of us.
Go Bucks!Yeah, I guess I will take the bait, too.
Posted: 4:31 PM by collegefootballfan222
I like to read opinions of those posters who love college football and are not just about their team/conference.
These are questions for your thoughts on the NC game (please express them over the next few days):
1) When Dorsey was hurt, teams were able to run on LSU; only Illinois ran well on the Buckeyes. The team that wins the rushing battle is most likely to win. Who will that be and why?
I think LSU is capable of outrushing tOSU. The defense is healthy. On offense, LSU "runs by committee" with their version of Wells (actually two in Scott and Williams (and Hester for short yardage) and one of the fastest backs in football (Holliday). Perriloux adds another running dimension in read option sets although Flynn is faster than you think in power I and other circumstances. No Laurinaitus on defense, but there is a healthy Dorsey, a returned Jean-Francois, and top linebackers (Highsmith, Jackson) who know how to fill gaps and can move laterally quite well. Good corners (Zenon, especially) who can stop outside. A good safety (Steltz) who plays smart and makes good run/pass reads and thus knows when to come up on runs and when to lay back on instinct in pass situations regardless of defense called. Injuries to Dorsey, Steltz and others should be healed. Edge: LSU.
2) LSU seems to have the better special teams, especially in kickoff returns. This could be important also, but Brandon Saine could be due to explode one for the Buckeyes. Who wins this battle and why?
I think LSU has the edge here. Colt David is a great kicker (and has even scored on a fake play). The second kicker is quite reliable as well. Holliday is dangerous in returns, and so is Keiland Williams. Coverage has been excellent without overruning returns for the most part. While Saine may have a big play, edge LSU.
3) The pass rush may be the difference in the game. Is Gholston enough of a threat there for the Buckeyes?
I honestly don't know. One of my fears as a Tiger fan is the potential for Gholsten to pressure the QB. I think Tressel may bring some surprises, so perhaps this is not an unreasonable concern for LSU. Gholsten probably has a better chance of getting to Flynn than Perrilloux, so I suppose it depends a bit on that.
4) Doucett, Holliday and Perriloux (if he plays much)have big play potential. Last year in the NC game Florida's longest play from scrimmage was 20 yards. OSU's defense is supposedly better this year. Robiskie, Wells, Boeckman - will they match the Tigers big plays?
Tough question. I do think the game could easily come down to big plays given the defenses on both teams against the run. I give LSU the edge in secondary, but fear Robiskie and hope they put Zenon on him and get help there from Steltz. I expect Tressel to go long on first and second down, and to use slants and screens to counter pressure. I think tOSU will get some big plays out of that, especially from Robiskie but maybe from Wells, too if they throw to him out of the backfield. So will LSU. I don't know how it will sort out frankly.
5) Coaching - i.e., the 'Vest' versus the 'Bold One'. Who wins this match-up?
A no brainer. Tressel. Experienced in BCS and quietly fixed on redemption (though he would not say so). Been there before in good times and bad. Methodical, meticulous, and even spirited (UDub game). I'm just glad, as a Tigre Fan, that Bo is there for this one and hope that Gary and Les step up on offense. Edge clearly to tOSU, but not as much as you might think.
You did not ask . . but intangibles? tOSU highly motivated by last year's loss and upholding their tradition. LSU playing in N'Awlins, hungry for another NC. Tough to call. I think both teams will be ready and will not underestimate the opponent.
You also did not ask, but speed? A non issue. Players are even in the 40 yard dash at key positions if you check out NFLSCOUTS.com. Holliday is the difference . . if they use him. While I believe Jerry Rice when he distinguishes between 40 yard dash times and "game speed" it is simply a non issue capable of differentiating the two teams (surprise comment from a fan of an SEC team, eh?).
Score? Tough one. I think LSU 28, tOSU 21 but would not (and am not) betting money on it).
Should be a good game . . I just hope it is and will not be a blowout either way.
SasGiven its bowl record and play during the season it is hard to imagine any ACC team being better than slightly above average in the top confs.
Although 5-3 in the bowls it is hard to make a case that any of the Big 12 teams could challenge for a Big 10, Pac 10 or SEC title. Most rank Okla as the best but I have always felt that Texas was almost as good. With the bowl results a case can be made that Texas is #1 in the Big 12. Mizzou failed to make a case that it is even close to Okla and Kans lags behind Mizzou.
I think schools like Aub, Fla, Wisc, Penn St, & Mich would be favorites to win either the Big 12 or ACC, and only WV has enough talent to challenge them in the Big East.This slag heap of Obese 11 vs. SEC smack talk cries out for perspective. For that, one must narrow the focus to individual institutions - the schools, their administrations, their students, their fans. OSU's most recent national championship spawned a riot in Columbus that included assaults, arson, wanton destruction of property, theft, vandalism, and other crimes. The police and fire departments were sorely tested. There were over 100 arrests. Though extreme, this behavior is not unusual. At OSU, there is a "tradition" of rioting every time the Buckeyes beat Michigan.
I cannot recall the community for any other recent national champion responding with such wanton, destructive, and injurious lawlessness, much less making it a regular, recurring practice when one's football team defeats its chief rival. There is a huge difference between partying in the streets and the setting of numerous fires, over turning of cars, felonious assaults, smashing of store windows, looting, and other crimes committed by OSU's fans. "Riot" is not an exaggeration. It is an apt description for what has transpired.
This behavior by OSU's fans is a stain upon the university, the conference, and college football as a whole. Clean up your act, OSU, or you don't belong in college football, much less on a national stage competing for a championship.for knox - I am certain that after reading your admonishments that Big 10 fans everywhere are scurrying to clean up their acts. I doubt seriously if any of them will wish to face your wrath at a future time.I've searched, and I cannot find any articles or references to riots in Ann Arbor, Madison, or even Evanston when their college football teams won a game of important or historic consequence. Neither have I found any evidence of riots in Gainesville, Knoxville, or Athens. No, Columbus is the only city to have that distinction. The degree of lawlessness, the number and severity of crimes is OSU's own. You're welcome to check the accounts in the Dispatch archives.The Book
Stewart Mandel's first book, Bowls, Polls and Tattered Souls: Tackling the Chaos and Controversy that Reign Over College Football, is available now. Click here to order your discounted copy.CommentsAll user comments must be approved by the moderator before being published. Due to time constraints, comments will only be published for the first several hours following a new post.More MandelRecent Posts
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