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Talk baseball all season long with SI.com's Jacob Luft in Baseball Chatter, a journal for hot topic debates, Sabermetric ramblings and reader-driven discussions.
The Great Pretenders
The Tigers still have the majors' top record (40-23), though, because they have fattened up on the league's worst teams. To wit, here is how the Tigers' wins and losses break down so far this season: Tigers against teams below .500 8-0 vs. Royals 7-2 vs. Twins 7-3 vs. Indians 3-0 vs. Mariners 2-3 vs. Angels 1-1 vs. Orioles Total: 28-9 (.757) Tigers against teams above .500 1-5 vs. White Sox 1-2 vs. Red Sox 1-3 vs. Yankees 2-1 vs. A's 3-1 vs. Rangers 2-1 vs. Blue Jays 2-1 vs. Reds Total: 12-14 (.462) Of course, the Tigers aren't alone in beating up on the bad teams. That's mainly how flags are won since, by definition, it's awfully hard to beat up on the good teams. But the Tigers are just more egregious about it this year than other teams. Here is how the AL's other top teams break down in terms of how they get their wins: Team, vs. plus-.500 teams, vs. teams .500 or below Red Sox, 17-18 (.486), 19-7 (.731) Yankees, 20-18 (.526), 15-8 (.652) Rangers, 15-17 (.469), 19-12 (.613) White Sox 12-6 (.667), 26-18 (.591) Blue Jays, 15-13 (.536), 19-15 (.559) There are other indicators that worry me about the Tigers' chances of keeping up this breakneck pace, the chief one being the uninspiring offense. Detroit ranks ninth in the American League in runs scored with 313, and the runs they have scored have come mostly through the long ball -- they are third in the league in home runs. They don't take walks (11th in AL), and therefore they don't get on base much (9th in AL), yet they rank first in strikeouts. Against the good teams with the good pitchers, failing to work the count and relying on the longball is a sure path to defeat. The lack of a consistent offense puts a lot of pressure on Tigers' pitching and defense to keep games close. For as much hype as the pitchers are getting, its the glovework that may be carrying this club. The staff ERA is 3.76, but their Fielding Independent Pitching ERA is 4.54. (Click here and scroll down to Team Pitching Stats.) In other words, if the Tigers were playing defense at an average level, their team ERA would be the higher number, 4.54. Some of that may be luck, however, and could start regressing as more balls fall into play against Detroit. Don't get me wrong. This isn't a bad ballclub. It just doesn't appear to be a great one, either, and that lousy stretch against the AL's best only reinforces that point. The Tigers have enough starting pitching (check out where their 3-4-5 pitchers rank in this chart) to hang in the AL Central race with the White Sox for a couple of more months, but they will have to continue to get Grade A relief work from Joel Zumaya and Fernando Rodney, who have set up an unremarkable Todd Jones perfectly so far. They also have to hope the emergence of career quadruple-A player Marcus Thames (he's raking right now) is not a fluke. It would help if Chris Shelton can be a semblance of the hitting machine he was in April. At the very least, Tigers fans can take solace in one thing: They have 10 more games against the Royals. Comments:As a White Sox fan I'm a litte worried about the Tigers. But we'll see if they can keep it up all the way through the summer. It's extremely difficult to go wire to wire like the Sox did last year.
The Tigers just hit a bad stretch at a bad time. They came back from warm, windy KC swinging for the fences against Mussina and the Yanks at the Copa, and it hurt them. But think about it. They went through a bad stretch against the best of the AL, and came out 7-9 with the best record and pitching staff in baseball. Part of the reason so many of the losing teams the Tabbies have faced(e.g., Cleveland) have losing records is because the Tigers have beat up on them so badly. (The White Sox, in comparison, are 5-7 against the Indians.) I look at your list and see four winning records out of seven against teams above .500, including two first place teams, all of them, except Chicago, small samples. You can't judge them on a bad week and a half (in which they easily should have won at least three more games), especially coming on the heels of a 15 out of 16 stretch. This is baseball, not basketball. The Tigers will be right there at the end.
It's all about the pitching. And in the case of the Tigers, they have a lot of nice pitching to crow about. I'm not wild about Detroit's lineup or defense, but I am wild about that rotation and bullpen. They are a team to be reckoned with, if not this year then certainly next.
Forget about the Tigers. They are a good story , but no way they will outlast the White Sox. Jim Leyland has the team headed in the right direction, but this is not their year. Next Year they will be ready for the next step
They're young but quite frankly I'll be thrilled if the Tigers can atleast take the Wild Card for the AL. Yankees and Red Sox both in this playoffs is nauseating. Their pitching is going to get better once Maroth comes back and when Zumaya is ready to go into the rotation. Judging by his velocity yesterday, he probably is ready.
Every team has 5-8 stretches, even division-leaders. If the Tigers had done it against the Rays, Royals and Mariners, I'd be concerned; against the Yankees, Sox, Sox and Jays, not so much. Besides, there were three one-run games in there; it could just as easily have been 7-6 or 8-5, and then you'd be crowing about how the Tigers are the Real Deal.
I like Leyland's outlook and general demeanour: one game at a time, play all nine innings, tomorrow's another day. Hopefully the bats will get re-ignited; until then, the Detroiters have at least four solid, solid starters that give them a shot to win every time out. Zumaya will never be ready for the rotation, he's a bullpen guy, and he's being groomed for a closer.
If the Tigers only have the best record in baseball because they have the best record against sub .500 teams, why havent the "best" teams in the AL figured out how to improve their records against the Royals & Rays and caught these "Paper Tigers" yet? The Tigers went 5-8 durring that stretch right after run that saw them win 20 of 25.
what the deuce - everyone felt the same thing about the chisox last year...
THe JAys are gonna win the WOrld Series once they get burnett and chacin back they have the best 1-5 pitchers in the majors(halladay,burnett,chacin,lilly,jansenn) and they are batting above 300 as a team!!!thats ridiculous
You are trying to justify your gut instinct with suspect statistical evidence. Do this analysis last week when the Indians were 1 or 2 games above .500 and the .462 percentage against winning teams jumps up significantly. This week, they have very similar numbers to the Red Sox but I have a feeling you would more than likely consider Boston a viable contender for the World Series. Tell it like it is - your GUT tells you that Detroit is a house of cards but the statistical evidence you provide, as we say in the medical field, is non-diagnostic at best.
You may be right, you may not be. But I haven't had this much fun since 1984. So I am just enjoying the ride and looking forward to seeing the young talent on this team develop over the next 2-3 years.
I'm sick and tired of these so called "experts" ripping the Tigers. Afterall, these are the same "experts" that picked the Tigers to finish 4th in the AL Central. It's as if these columnist are trying to justify their preseason prognosis. Face the facts "experts". You missed on the Tigers. Now enjoy the season!
I'm not a Tiger fan (Red Sox fan here), but I think the Tigers have a lot to be enthusiastic about. Their pitching is great with guys like Verlander, Bonderman, Zumaya, and Robertson. While their offense may lack the punch of division rivals Chicago and Cleveland, I think they may have the best young pitching staff in the AL. Leyland is a battle-tested manager as well, and his presence has helped change the culture of losing in Detroit. The Tigers may not make the playoffs this year, but I think their future is very bright. I hope they keep improving, because baseball is better with a historic franchise like Detroit playing into October.
This team looks similar to the Pudge led Marlins in 03. He helped straighten out their staff and is one of the game's great leaders. Don't count them out.
Whenever I watch the Tigers I just get the feeling that we are watching a team that is a year ahead of itself. With Verlander, Bonderman and company I think this team is still a year off from being at its best. Kind of like the Indians were last year.
Indians may be a bad example but the fact is the Tigers have yet to have success against teams with winning records. I think that a team's successes and failures in Late September and into October are a reflection of how they do against teams with winning records. As a White Sox fan, I cannot discount this team. I see a little bit of the the '05 Sox in the Tigers, so for that reason alone, I cannot dismiss them as the '05 O's.
Their pitching is good, young and untested in pressure situations, but good nonetheless. The Sox didn't hit all that well last year, and relied heavily on their pitching as the Tigers are now. It's still early, so lets see what this looks like after the All-Star break. And don't sleep on the Indians either. They could put on another hot streak like they did last year. -Jeeves www.chisoxblog.blogspot.com Their not going to completely fade because they have good pitching, but our right, their offense is questionable. They might have a ok shot at the wild card depending on how the East shape up, espcially since all 3 east contenders are mired in injuries right now.
If the Tigers continue to play .757 against the weak teams & .462 against the stronger teams, they'll be in the playoffs. Then you only have to play .571 (4 of 7) each series and you're World Series champs. Sounds like a plan.
Tigers are last years Baltimore. They will be gone by august.
Did you look at your stats before writing this article. Besides the White Sox, none of your other contenders showed a record statistically different than the Tigers.
Another point to consider- how often did the other contenders go through a similar stretch. Its more difficult to play a long stretch a games against top competition versus when they are spread out among weaker teams. And what about home-road splits? hey luft, YOUR AN IDIOT!!!! ITS THE MIDDLE OF JUNE AND THEY ARE STILL IN FIRST! THE ARE FOR REAL, THE ONLY PRETENDER IS YOU!!
Pitching is what wins championships not a great offense. I agree that the offense has struggled and will need to get it together to continue to fight for the playoffs. But the schedule clearly favors the tigers. We will know if they are for real because they still have 13 against the Sox, and 6 against the Yanks and Bosox. Those 13 games in my opinion will win or lose the division for the sox and tigers. But to say a team with the best record in baseball is a pretender is nonsense. Everyone comes to play and because the tigers have the best record, teams will be trying to beat them more. So quit ripping on the tigers.
like the fella above said
"Anonymous said... what the deuce - everyone felt the same thing about the chisox last year... 9:47 PM, June 12, 2006 " I second that motion, but I can't imagine them getting quite as far in the playoffs. The Mets and Yankees rotations are a bit suspect right now, but I predict another Subway Series come October. While much of the Tigers' successis due to overachieving kids like Verlander and Shelton (in April), if they don't make the playoffs this year, it will be due to their veterans breaking down (Guillen, Pudge, Maggs and Rogers).
Their success is due to having these horses on the field at the same time. Each game is independent of the next in Leyland's mind. As long as they split with the cream of the crop and with 3 out of 4 from the rest, they're in the playoffs. And I'll be looking for your article on their success and why you were wrong earlier in the season. You'll probably use another Platters tune as the title, can I suggest "The Magic Touch"? The Tigers' signing of Sammy Sosa today will be the spark the Tigers need to ignite that stagnant offense.
c'mon now. we all know the white sox will win the division. the tiggers will be lucky if they wind up in third place.
It don't matter none who wins da division. Da Yanks is gonna roll all over da whole league this year. Tigers aint no bona fide contender. Aint nobodies but da Yanks truly bona fide. Nobodies!
Tigers are last years Baltimore. They will be gone by September.
Your facts do not support your argument. History has shown that if good teams beat the poor teams and play near .500 ball against the better teams then they can have a chance to make the post- season. Looks like Leyland and Dombrowski are working the recipe for a successful baseball season. We'll check back in October to see if the frosting comes together. Until then keep the oven warming....
Hey buddy KC man here, that's really funny that you can say they should be happy that they have 10 more games against us. Remember in 2003 when we were winning and they were losing like crazy? Funny how we could've said the same then.
Your rant sounds viable, until you look at the " statistical evidence" you provide. Please tell me who the world beaters are in this list that are at best 2-3 games better against above.500 teams, yet worse against sub .500 teams.
I wish you no ill will, however becareful while chugging down your " Hatorade", we wouldn't want you to CHOKE on your premonition abour our Motor City Sluggers... THE TIGERS ARE FOR REAL, BASED ON A SOLID STARTING ROTATION AND A SIMILARLY SOLID BULLPEN. YOU FAILED TO MENTION THAT THE TIGERS FACED ALL THOSE "CONTENDERS" BACK TO BACK TO BACK, AND THAT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DO. YOU ALSO FAILED TO POINT OUT THAT MAROTH WENT DOWN IN THE KC SERIES, RIGHT BEFORE THE TOUGH STRETCH AND WOULD HAVE PITCHED 3 GAMES DURING THAT STRETCH. RELAX JACOB, THERE IS A CONTENDER IN DETROIT.
Going 7-9 against five of the best offenses in the AL (Cle, NY, Bos, CWS, Tor)was pretty good. It's been 13 long years since a winning season here in Detroit. We expected that bringing in Jim Leyland might change that but had no idea it would be like this. Some fans do not remember what a pennant race feels like. Sit back, have some bubblegum, and enjoy the season.
I enjoy the people who think Zumaya is destined for the rotation. Velocity does not equal a spot in the rotation. Especially when you consider the strain throwing that hard puts on the body. Also consider prospects coming up from the minors. Sanchez, and the kid from UNC look like better long term options in the rotation. As a life long Tigers fan, I do not think they will make the playoffs. Too many runs are scored via the homerun. The team's OBP needs to go up. This team is a year away, although I do not think they will collapse
I don't know if the Tigers will make the playoffs. I believe they have the stuff to make the post season, but 10 years of losing still hangs around. That was evident in the last 3 series against NY BOSTON and CHICAGO. They should of swept Chicago and Boston. They had leads late in those games and failed to close them out. It not the stats. It still learning how to win. If they know they can stay with those top teams and they learn to win those tight ones. They should make the playoff
Two months ago we didn't even think about comparing the Tigers with the Yankees, Red Sox, White Sox, and Jays. We are living a dream in Detroit and will enjoy it as long as it lasts. The future is bright with the young arms.
This should be the Tigers inspiration for the rest of the year for the non-believers who can't see past Yankees, Red Sox, White Sox. Its the famous quote by Manager Lou Brown from "Major League. "Let's make 'em eat a s***burger."
C'mon Old Pro. Do you really think Sammy Sosa is the offensive spark that Detroit needs? WHICH version of Sosa will show up? The guy who languished in Baltimore or the "juicer" who slid out of Chicago? Sosa's history. Don't bet on this guy.
What a bizarre article.
Because the Tigers are 2 games below .500 against winning teams while the Bosox are merely one game below, that is proof that the Tigers are pretenders while the Bosox are for real? Do you understand anything about statistical significance? That the difference in one subset between being 2 games under (Tigers) and 2 games over (Yankees) in a reasonably sized sample is utterly meaningless? It's like arguing that a .280 hitter is much much better than a .270 hitter two months into the season. This is simply another example of how the national media likes to beat up on Detroit. We're used to it.
The fact of the matter is Detroit is having their best season in over a decade, and all it took was a little bump over a ten game stretch to suddendly call the entire season into question? How does one become a contributor to the ESPN website? Nepotism? Bribery? In this instance, it doesn't seem to be like intelligent thought was a requirement. Every year a team jumps out to a ridiculous start. Remember the Orioles last year? Now, I'm not saying they are going to choke like the O's, but their pace has already started to slow - AND ITS ONLY JUNE!! The Tigers will finish looking up at the ChiSox.
Every team goes through a few rough stretches during the season. I would argue the 13 games showed exactly that the Tigers are a resillient team. The Tigers lost late leads in 3 of those games and still managed to bounce back and win 3 of the last 4, not to mention the tough comeback win last night. Simply looking at the record doesn't tell the story. The ability to bounce back over the course of a season is more
I'm not worried about the Tigers at all. I see them ranking in the third spot in the division, playing above .500 ball. White Sox rule the division, although i see Cleveland makin a run in the second half.
Re: the 2005 Orioles comparison ... After the games of June 12, 2005, the Orioles were 36-26 and had a three-game lead atop the AL East. They played only .380 ball (38-62) the rest of the way, the second-worst mark in the AL for that span.
After last night's win, the Tigers are 41-23 and have a 1.5-game lead on the AL Central. -- Jacob Luft The Jays will turn it around from their slump and head into the playoffs riding the D-Train...Look for a major move come deadline time...Enough of ppl calling the east a 2 team race..
Jacob, do you only pay attention to teams when the play the Yankees and Red Sox? Almost every posting of yours references Boston or New York. Keep this up and ESPN will offer you a job by Labor Day.
jacob luft? do you have any stats semse? you just don't like the tigers and you came up w/ stupid logic to back yourself up... ok 7-9 against world championship teams is pretty good I would say... especially for a team that has struggled so much... I mean if the red sox or yankees went 7-9 no would say anything... why can't you write an article saying how the yankees are struggling... jacob luft stop writing articles
Let me get this straight...He is complaining that the Tigers struggled against the top teams, but pummel the weaker teams, yet, doesn't comment that a team like the White Sox, who SHOULD pummel the weak teams, aren't? Wouldn't you expect the best teams to beat up the weak teams, exactly what Detroit is doing? And he is using that to prove they AREN'T that good? Lets face it, yeah, the Tigers schedule was hard the last 3 weeks...but, they entered it with the best record in baseball, and they emerged from it with the best record. Enough said.
I don't have any dog in this fight, but I will say that the numbers provided only tell part of the story. while the team's numbers don't rank as high, their OBP & SLG are currently above league average. As long as they're finding a way to get on base & the following batters hit home runs, they'll be fine. The big question is if their great young pitching staff can do it over the course of a full season.
The White Sox won last year with great pitching and hitting a lot of home runs, so the comparison is valid. The Tigers are playing good ball, the stats you used are pretty lame. If it wasn't for the Tigers the Indians would be over .500, they are a legit post season contender. This is one of the most pathetic articles I've ever read, you should look into your career decision...
It's funny but this sounds a lot like the things that were being said about another AL Centeral team last year that also held the best record in baseball. The Tigers and the white sox are very similar and it wouldn't be suprising to see them battling it out for the ALCS.
As a lifelong Detroit fan, I'm happy to see the Tigers actually competing. Now, do I think they'll win the World Series. I don't think so. Their offense is just too irregular for my tastes.
I do think that they might win the division though. And after all these years of mediocrity, that's a good thing. I can understand some dismissing of the Tigers since they haven't been a power like the Yankees or Red Sox, but the stats used are just plain horrible. The first complaint is that they beat up on teams under .500, which is what they are supposed to do (but of course when the Yankees do it, it's ok). Then they go almost .500 against teams above .500, which is not done by very many teams. Ultimately though, the biggest fault lies in classifying the teams you have listed as below .500. The Twins are 28-34 but if you take away how they've done against the Tigers, they are 26-27, barely below .500. The Indians are 30-32 and if you take Detroit out of the equation, they are 27-25 against the rest of the MLB. Similar for the Mariners, 31-34 to 31-31. The teams in the below .500 list are meant to sound a lot worse than they really are. I think the most heartening thing about the losing streak is that Detroit was in almost every single game (if not ahead) in those series, whereas in years past they would have been blown out.
For an entire DECADE, The Twins have OWNED the Tigers (check the stats- they're over .800 during that long stretch) To a slightly lesser extent, the Indians have beaten up on Detroit, also...Make no mistake, those ARE the two teams The Tigers have had to beat to prove themselves and improve in the standings. They only have to squeak by Boston and/or NY in late September!!!
Well after going through the gauntlet they ended up 7-9(you need to put Cleveland in there too). I'll take that against the better teams anyday...some very close games that got away from the bullpen and we're talking 9-7. The Tigers also will not be sellers come trade deadline time they will be buyers. Lets wait and see how Dombrowski helps to bolster the offense before we declare them faders. As you point out they have legit pitching and we all know that good pitching shuts down good hitting most of the time. They just need that little something extra to get over the hump and that may be provided yet this year.
What you don't take into consideration is that the Tiger's had the opportunity to win all but one of the games against the White Sox, Yankees, and Boston trifecta. I watched every inning of every game during that stretch. The inexperience was somewhat evident, but this team is learning how to win, (example the come from behind win last night against the Devil Rays) This team is for real. They are getting production and clutch performances from every member of the roster. Leyland preaches "nine innings" and these guys fight for all 27 outs. I have been a Tiger fan all of my life, and this team is something special.
Luft's attempt to spin this by making a comparison to last year's Baltimore team indicates he knows he's off-base with his initial post.
Baltimore didn't collapse because suddenly they hit reality. They collapsed because they suffered a bunch of injuries. Now if Verlander, Ordonez, Pudge, and Rodney all go out for long stretches with injuries, I will boldly forecast that the '06 Tigers will collapse the same way the '05 Orioles did. If they don't suffer such injuries, then the comparison is meaningless. All this really proves is that the schedule, at least so far, has been easy for the AL Central teams. The Tigers have played 37 games against sub-500 teams (and the White Sox 44). The Red Sox have only played 26 games against losing teams, and the Yankees only 23. In fact, the Red Sox just completed a strecth where 19 out of 23 games were against teams with winning records; only 4 games against Tampa broke up the litany. So, the point that Detroit is beating up on the Little Sisters of the Poor is valid, because they've played so many games against them. (It's not quite valid vis-a-vis the White Sox, because they've played more.)
Congrats to the Detroit fans. The team is looking good. Good teams win the games they are supposed to and if you play well against tough opponents you'll get your fair share. Leyland is a genius.
Yeah Yeah....and the Pistons aren't that good either blah blah blah
So let me get this straight: the Tigers aren't a legitmate playoff team because they play TOO WELL against sub-.500 teams?
Can't argue with that logic. I agree. In addition, the Tigers went 5-8 against severely injury-depleted Yankee and Blue Jays teams. Unfortunate that the wild card will come out of the central while the 3 best teams are in the AL East.
And just how exactly do the defending World Series Champs end up with the most glaringly powder-puff schedule to this point in the year? Breaking down your percentages, if the White Sox were playing a few more games against .500 and above teams, the Tigers would have a bigger lead in the AL Central.
I think Jacob's article has some truth to it, but obviously excellent defense contributes to an excellent team ERA. If making such an obvious comment makes you a good writer, I am in the wrong business! I can't wait to pull up Jacob's next article! They may not be able to sustain this run, but I just want to read what incredibly obvious comments he brings up next! I bet you the Royals play poor defense, and that is why their ERA is so high! Thanks, Captain Obvious!
Just one look at the ChiSox record against over-.500 teams and I can see how this division is going to shape out.
A WS repeat may be in the cards for the South Siders, that is, as long as they don't have to go through the Cards to win it! Hey, the Tigers beat the D-Rays last night.... By the logic of this column, I guess that means they will finish no better than fourth in the Central
I think the Tigers are for real, but they won't reach the World Series. Not this year....
The Tigers pitching has been fantastic, and Verlander, Rodney, and Zumaya will continue to improve. Nate Robertson is pitching with confidence and he is finally getting some run support. The biggest question mark is the lack of consistent offensive spark. If the Tigers are in the hunt at the end of July (which they should be) Mr. Illich WILL get them someone. Two big question marks in the offensive line-up are Craig Monroe and Brandon Inge...too low of averages and too many strikeouts. Chris Shelton is putting himself in that catagory as well. Hopefully he'll find his groove again.
1) The two World Series teams last year, the White Sox and Astros, finished 9th and 11th in runs in their respective leagues last year.
2) Good teams are supposed to beat up on bad ones, and they're only two games under against +.500 teams. Is that so horrible? 3) So, the Tigers would have a higher ERA if their defense wasn't as good, ya say? Wow, there's a mind blower. Lemme try it... "You know, the Royals wouldn't give up as many runs if their pitching didn't suck so much." I did it! Can I write for SI too now? the Red Sox are the team to beat in the AL. this year they have a great defense and a true anchor in the bullpen. it's Papelbon time
I've been Tigers fan for the last 30 years, and you know what... it doesn't matter.
They're making it fun this year. I haven't found myself this wrapped up in the chase in ages. At this stage, it's an unexpected pleasure for us fans to have them in first place. I wasn't holding my breath for much other than above .500 baseball this year. This is a treat. Do people understand where the Tigers have come from? What they are doing now is progressing toward being a contender. Not being better than the Red Sox, Yankees, and White Sox is not a bad thing. If you thought they were better than those teams this year, you were blind. For them finishing at .500 or better is a successful season. Their great start will help them finish at or above .500.
I believe the tigers are legit contenders. There pitching and defense has been among the leagues best. Their offense can be a little inconsistant, but that could get enhanced by trading for a left handed bat they desperately need. If they could trade inge and perhasp DY for a quality left handed bat, I'd take it. Personally, I would like to see them trade for Carl Crawford, but to get someone like that, they would have to give up too much for their great young pitching.
As a WhiteSox fan, I have to say the Tigers are definitely showing the same spirit and determination that the 2005 White Sox had. The 2005 Sox won with great pitching and timely hitting. That's exactly what Detroit has this year, great pitching and timely hitting. They're not out to overpower their opponents by huge margins, just winning.I hope to see a Detroit/Chicago battle in the playoffs.
The Tigers are vastly improved due to their pitching and belief in themselves. They no longer count themselves out of games as in the past. Forget the offense and runs. 2-1, 3-2 games are fine. They are young, hungry, and loaded with pitching. Anyone who calls such a team The Great Pretenders does not know the history of the game.
maybe they are an 85 win team. Don't hold your breath on 90 wins.
Pudge 03 and Pudge 06 are totally different players.. in 03 pudge was roided up, in 06 he is not (i guess). And I don't recall the Tigers having anyone nearly as good as Dlee or Miggy Cabrera, who were both on the Marlins in 03. AND the tigers K waaay too much. Been a fun ride Tiger fans, don't hold your breath on the playoffs (your manager isn't so follow his cue) One bad stretch. How many games did they blow in that stretch? They need a new closer and another bat. This team now believes in themselves. Last night is a prime example the lights malfunctioned they stranded 14 runners but they never gave up. They won the game in the 13th. I am a Tigers fan living in Chicago and I remember one thing from the White Soxes last year-- Don't Stop Believing! I am going to believe as the Tigers take it 9 innings at a time and they will make believers of you all, so don't stop believing. It should be a great summer of baseball. By the way if the Tigers go 500 the rest of the way that is 90 wins.
I love how the Tigers are now being criticized for winning games they should win. Last year they didn't and they were widely criticized and now they do and there is even more criticism. It is not their fault the Twins and Indians are underachieving. All the so-called "experts" like yourself “Jake” picked those two teams to finish ahead of them and now that they are ahead of them people are hating on them instead of giving them the accolades that they deserve. As for losing to the above .500 teams I think your argument is extremely weak. The Tigers have winning records against the A's, Blue Jays, Rangers, and Reds. So that is 4 out of the 7 teams you mention. How is that bad? Moreover, if it weren't for Leyland's misplaced faith in Todd Jones in which he blew games against the Yankees and Red Sox they would have tied the Yankees and had a winning record against the Red Sox. Also, if it weren’t for Rodney blowing a save against the White Sox and Jones and Rodney teaming up for that masterpiece of a collapse against the Blue Jays their record would be much better than it is, which as of today is still the best record in all of baseball. The point being the only issue is the bullpen and if the Tigers get that under control then they should be fine. However, knowing that blown saves are a part of the game the Tigers went 7-9 in the difficult stretch, which I think is decent but not a total failure. You can throw at your readers all the "important" statistics you want, but the most important one is "W". The Tigers this year -under Leyland's guidance- know how to win, know how to gut out games (even if they are not pretty), and have learned to never give up on a game. So don't let all those statistics fool you. They have strong starting pitching, a good defense, a line-up in which any guy on any day can have a big game, a strong bench, a excellent manager, and when Zumaya finally gets the closer role they will have a big-time closer. So I suggest you wait till mid-July when separation starts to occur before you cast judgment, because all your article suggests right now is that you are just guessing.
The tigers were extremly hot before they ran the American league triatholon from hell. A team is bound to cool down, but because it was against the yankees b-sox and chisox they now suck. No they don't suck. They will win the central division, and though it kills me to say being a life-long tigers fan will, lose in 4 games to the wild card winning chisox.
the tigers are for real. every team has a little down time and, considering the "slump" was only a run away from a victory on more than one occassion, against the elite teams of the league, I think they have nothing to worry about. Consider only 2 or 3 years ago they were the laughing stock of baseball, I think it is the greatest story of the year! They want this far worse than even their die hardest of fans, (like me)and I think there will be alot of surprised people come Sept.
The Tigers have scored roughly 4 runs or so less than Boston with their suspect offense.
Gee, starting pitching might be a factor - even more than your suspect equalized defense numbers. One of the Tigers' best starters this year, Mike Maroth, will be coming off the DL in August. Luft,
With all due respect (zero to none), i think ur stupid. Have you even watched the Tigers play. They are a true team. No one on the team (with a possible exception of Pudge) is a true superstar. They are all normal players who work well together. That is how a great team is formed. Look at last year's White Sox. NOBODY on the team had more than 100 regular season runs. Detroit is in it for the long haul, whether u want to accept it or not. Oh, and last time i checked, Detroit led in regular season win loss records for 75% of all professional sports. Beat that LUFT horrible article
the tigers were 2 games below .500 vs top teams, the BoSox were 1 game below .500. WHAT A DIFFERENCE. Just a truely horrible piece or writing and research Well... even though this was published two weeks ago, I still feel inclined to comment on the most suspect piece of statistical evidence I see: The ChiSox record seems to have been supported by the fact that, of their 66 total games, only 22 (22!) have been against teams playing above .500 ball! That means (although I'm not a mathematician) that 44, or 67% of their games have been against losing teams.
Since then, the Tigers, WSox, or Twins have all avoided significant losing streaks, and until that happens, we won't know much. Go Tigers! Justin Verlander, Kenny Rogers, Mags, Curtis Granderson, Pudge, Joel Zumaya,oh and of course Jim Leyland... need I say more... give credit were credit is due!
Hey it's October 18! Where are the pretenders now?!
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