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Talk baseball all season long with SI.com's Jacob Luft in Baseball Chatter, a journal for hot topic debates, Sabermetric ramblings and reader-driven discussions.
Look at me, I can be ... center field
As impressive as Hall is at the plate -- he hit a home run to left-center field against the Giants on Thursday that cleared a bridge 50 feet past the scoreboard -- his presence in the clubhouse is just as pronounced. On a team relying on kids such as Prince Fielder (22), Rickie Weeks (24), J.J. Hardy (24) and Corey Hart (25), the 27-year-old Hall stands out as a an elder statesman with the established clout -- he signed a four-year, $24 million contract this winter -- to become the face of this franchise for the rest of the decade. If he does so, it appears it will be while he's playing center field, his new position after being a sort of super-utility man the past couple of seasons, bouncing around between second base, third base, shortstop and a handful of starts in center. I watched and waited for a ball to be hit toward Hall to see what kind of jump he would get and to try to gauge where he was at in his transition to center. Alas, only one ball was hit his way during the game, a booming drive into the left-center field gap that turned him around and bounced over the fence for a ground-rule double. After the game, Hall said he might have had a shot at the ball if he hadn't been playing so shallow, which he was doing as an experiment to see what he could and couldn't get away with in center. "If I'm playing deeper, I might have a chance to catch it, but I might run into the wall, too, so it was going to be a tough play regardless," Hall said. With his exceptional speed, he's not nearly as concerned with covering the gaps as he is with handling the line drives hit right toward him. "The bigger guys tend to carry it over your head," he said. "You see a line drive you want to charge in on, but some guys hit them over your head." Though I have little doubt that Hall will develop into a decent center fielder -- his manager, Ned Yost, said Hall is "already looking like a natural out there" -- I can't help but wonder if the Brewers are making the right decision in moving their bellweather slugger out of the infield. After taking over at shortstop early in the season for an injured J.J. Hardy, Hall proved he could play the position at an above-average level; according to David Pinto's Probabilistic Model of Range, only Houston's Adam Everett displayed more range at short last season. With Hall at short, the Brewers enjoyed the best production of any regular shortstop in the National League. 2006 NL Shortstops ranked by Park-Adjusted OPS+ (100 is average; min. 502 PA) Name, Team, OPS+ 1. Hall, Brewers, 126 2. Jose Reyes, Mets, 118 3. Hanley Ramirez, Marlins, 116 T4. Rafael Furcal, Dodgers, 107 T4. Edgar Renteria, Braves, 107 6. Jimmy Rollins, Phillies, 103 Source: Baseball-Reference.com As a center fielder, Hall's OPS+ would have ranked third behind Carlos Beltran (153) and Andruw Jones (129). Understandably, the Brewers have made a commitment to play the homegrown Hardy at shortstop, and a healthy Corey Koskie at third base would make Hall's move to center a no-brainer. But Koskie is suffering from post-concussion syndrome and is out indefinitely, which means the Brewers will go with a punchless platoon of Craig Counsell and Tony Graffanino at third base until prospect Ryan Braun improves his glovework. Subsequently, the only real advantage you get by moving Hall to center field, besides his shortstop-quality arm, is to hide the bat of Brady Clark, who slumped badly last season (77 OPS+) after strong showings in 2004 and '05. Basically, it's a wash until Koskie comes back or Braun learns how to field, and that's assuming Hall makes the transition smoothly to center field. What about Ichiro, Soriano and Burke?
All four players are athletic enough to eventually settle in, though Ichiro sticks out as the most natural of the transitions. The Seattle superstar took over the position the last month of 2006 and looked terrific. This is unusual in that, historically speaking, players rarely move from an easier position to a more difficult position (as per Bill James' defensive spectrum). Then again, Ichiro is nothing if not an unusually amazing ballplayer. Perhaps the best aspect of the shakeup for Seattle is that Jeremy Reed (.368 career slugging pct.) can move to a reserve role and veteran bat Jose Guillen was picked up as the corner outfielder du jour. To illustrate how much better off the M's are with Ichiro in center field, look at these AL rankings of corner outfielders compared to center fielders from 2006: 2006 AL corner outfielders ranked by park-adjusted OPS+ (100 is average; min. 502 PA) Player, OPS+ 1. Manny Ramirez, 168 2. Jermaine Dye, 152 3. Vladimir Guerrero, 144 4. Raul Ibanez, 128 5. Nick Swisher, 126 6. Mike Cuddyer, 124 7. Reed Johnson, 121 8. Magglio Ordonez, 113 9. Carl Crawford, 111 10. Ichiro, 109 Now here's that same list with just the center fielders in the AL. 2006 AL center fielders ranked by OPS+ (100 is average; min. 502 PA) Player, OPS+ 1. Grady Sizemore, 135 2. Vernon Wells, 126 3. Johnny Damon, 120 4. Gary Matthews Jr., 119 5. Torii Hunter, 112 6. David Dejesus, 103 7. Curtis Granderson, 99 8. Mark Kotsay, 89 9. Chone Figgins, 89 So if Ichiro had played center last year, he would have ranked sixth among AL center fielders in OPS+ instead of ninth among corner outfielders, and he would have trailed the leader, Sizemore, by a substantially smaller margin than he did Manny. It's also worth noting that Ichiro's lifetime OPS+ is 119 and Sizemore's is 126. I'm more skeptical about the Soriano scenario in Chicago. The Cubs have a rapidly developing future star in Felix Pie, who is being blocked by Soriano and his massive new contract. Early reports on Soriano's acclimation to the position are less than glowing. The best possible solution might be for the team to trade away Jacque Jones and play Pie in center with Soriano at one of the corners. Knowing the Cubs, they will use this whole situation to find a way to limit the at-bats of Matt Murton, one of the few guys on the roster who doesn't mind drawing a walk every now and then. As for Burke, his situation reminds me of Hall's in that he's a middle infielder moving to center primarily because of his ability to hit. Burke posted a 94 OPS+ last season, which isn't great but should improve as he enters his prime years (he's 27) and represents a vast upgrade over former Astros center fielder Willy Taveras (career 75 OPS+). The fact remains though that Burke would be most valuable at second base but is blocked by Craig Biggio's limp toward 3,000 hits. Comments:Ryan Braun will be in the Majors very quickly, if not at the beginning of the season. The Brewers made the right decision.
it honestly makes no sense to me to move an infielder to the toughest position in the outfield. i could understand left field or right, but center... these teams are all at one point in the season going to lose a game, series, etc because of the switch.
I think that Bill Hall should be in the lineup everyday. The guy is really good, Soriano wont last too long in center, I never understood why Ichiro wasnt already playing center and there was a time when i thought that Chris Burke was going to be a great player but anymore, i think he is just another face in the crowd. I hope it works out for all of them, but i have to say that i think the Cubs are making a mistake with Soriano. Every other teams decision makes sense to me.
The cubs moved soriano to center b/c they are idiots.
Of their starting outfielders, Soriano, Murton, and Jones, they have two left fielders and one right fielder. Leave it to the Cubs!!! It will be fun watching Soriano try to adjust to center field at windy Wrigley Field. A quick, athletic shortstop with a good glove can make the switch to center with a little practice- I don't think the jump is as huge as it seems. Short is such a demanding position as it is that Hall playing center wouldn't be as scary as, say, Weeks playing center. It worked for Yount, and I hope it works for Hall.
I think it will be interesting to see how Soriano adjusts to the position of center field.
Good decision. If Hardy lives up to his hype, and Hall continues to shine like he did last year, they will be fine. Hall has the talent and natural ability to play CF. His range and speed will make up for his botched decisions early in the year. I see him and a possible gold glove canidate, but that won't happen as long as Andrew Jones is in the NL. Hitting won't be the issue, and my mid-season, neither will the defensive aspect.
The Cubs desperately needed Soriano to fill an offensive need. CF was the only position to put him. Murton plays LF, Mr. Luft, so how does this hurt him? Felix Pie is still too green, though he may be playable later this season. One of the oral conditions of Soriano's signing was that they wouldn't shift him around, so moving him to RF when Pie comes up is a risky proposal.
As for now, the Cubs did the only thing they could with Soriano defensively. I guess that's why GMs are GMs and writers are writers. "To illustrate how much better off the M's are with Ichiro in center field, look at these AL rankings of corner outfielders compared to center fielders from 2006"
Wait... why are saying the M's will be better by comparing Ichiro's OPS ranking versus center fielders and corner outfielders? What does that ranking change? Nothing. If you put Ichiro behind the plate his OPS will beat all cathcers' OPS. Does that mean Seattle is better off with Ichiro at catcher? This logic makes no sense. I agree with the move of Ichiro to center but the math you used doesn't make any sense. There are twice as many corner outfielders as center fielders so doesn't it make sense that Ichiro would move up the rankings. If you do the math it makes him 9/60 (or in the top 15 percent) versus 6/30 (top 20 percent). Agree with the move, but your statistics are misleading. Go Twins.
"Wait... why are saying the M's will be better by comparing Ichiro's OPS ranking versus center fielders and corner outfielders? What does that ranking change? Nothing. If you put Ichiro behind the plate his OPS will beat all cathcers' OPS. Does that mean Seattle is better off with Ichiro at catcher? This logic makes no sense."
if they replace that outfield position with somebody better than their catcher, then they would be better off (if ichiro could play catcher). it would be like trading the catcher for the new outfielder. Ichiro's OPS wouldn't beat Joe Mauer's
Soriano's best position is DH
I'm pretty sure Ichiro was a center fielder his entire career in Japan, too. I could be wrong, but I remember seeing that at some point. So it's not like he has to learn a new position, just get readjusted to an old one.
the cubs had two of the best cf's in the game the last few years with corey patterson and juan pierre and they didnt win games. worst case scenario is they still dont win games. how can this be a bad idea. nothings worked before.
Really.. arent they all outfielders. They are professional baseball players. An outfielder shoud be able to play any of the three spots and play them well. They're not being asked to throw a no hitter. they are being asked to catch some fly balls....
Brewers are going to make it deep into the playoffs this year. GO BREWERS
The advantage of moving Ichiro to center is replacing Jeremy Reed with Jose Guillen.
Before, the M's had two above-average corner outfielders (Ibanez and Ichiro), with a poor-hitting center fielder (Reed). Now, the M's will now have (hopefully) above-average hitters at all three outfield positions. Ichiro played a portion of his games in center in Japan, but was not a regular there.
Who's the favorite to win the Gold Glove in CF in 2007?
Matt Murton...this guy deserves playing time!
Hall has already had some highlight real catches in center field last year. He will do fine. The transition might be a little rockier for Soriano though.
There is a misconception that left or right are easy to play because when you are growing up you stick the worst players in those positions. Left field has the shortest throw and ,growing up, everybody hits right handed so no balls go to right field. It is much easier to read the ball off the bat in Center. It is only hard because of the ground you have to cover. Some of that can be offset by positioning yourself well a la Jim Edmonds.
He is the poster child for why center field is the easiest of the outfield positions. That guy makes plays on his belly that just about every other center fielder would have been camped under. I guess you can earn a gold glove for making a position harder than it really is. i still remember when j. reed was going to be a superstar and it .400
shortstops and centerfielders have natural similarities in their posotions. together, they cover over 60% of the entire playing field. Mantle was a converted shortstop, and Robin Yount made the move as well. I've often thought that Drek Jeter goes back on flies over his head better than almost anybody in the Majors, and would have been an excellent center fielder as well. If the Cubs do decide to put that new kid in center and move Soriano to right, his arm will allow him to make that move as well. Alfonso is a terrific ballplayer, and since rightfield can be a "glamour" position, I don't think he would balk too much if those were the Cubs plans down the line.
The Cubs did NOT have 2 of the best CF's in the game the past two years, look at the numbers. Yes they were good defensively, but not offensively. Pierre was a free-swinger last year and Patterson couldn't lay down a bunt to save his life.
Pie is the best choice in CF for the Cubs, bottom line. He is putting up the numbers this Spring and he is making a solid case. Matt Murton will not get as much playing time as he should because the Cubs think Cliff Floyd is better. Silly. Soriano should be in the infield, he has more promise in that spot and not to mention his bat. The Cubs are making decisions now based on last years stats, not this years, that's why there is Spring Training. Expect changes in the Windy City by the All-Star break. I wouldnt even call Ichiro's move different Center is a more demanding Outfield position but if your a good Outfielder and have the speed you can play it. Soriano, Burke and Hall will have a tougher time. I think Burke and Hall will do alright I still dont buy the Soriano in the Outfield he isnt the best fielder anywhere so putting him in Center doesnt make sense to me. But hey what do i know
As a Cubs fan I feel that Soriano in center is not the way to go. I don't think it will go horribly bad, but Jones, Murton, and Floyd are not the best defenders either. Jones has a terrible arm, Murton is average, and Floyd is beat up. The cubs should promote Pie to improve the the outfield defense. The guys is a stud and his bat will catch up with the rest of him by mid season. They should move Soriano to a corner and platoon floyd and murton. I like Jones, but they should package him with somebody else and make a trade for pitching. I realize we have a ton of starters but that doesn't matter if they aren't any good.
The Cubs should move soriano back to second base. He's going to have 20 errors and phenomenal range wherever he plays. It might as well be at a position where offense is hard to come by (i.e. second base.)
remember robin yount? gold gloves at each, right? give it a chance.
Back my comment about this logic not making sense. Say if Ichiro moves to center and the M's are "better". By this guy's logic the M's are better becasue Ichiro ranked higher against center fielders than corner OFs. So if next year the M's get a better CF, say Tori Hunter, does that mean the M's are worse off because Ichiro goes back to right? Obviously not.
I understand better players means a better team. But increasing your OPS ranking by changing positions has nothing to do with winning. People, that is , fans, always are shocked when they are let down by players like Jeremy Reed, who, as one person stated earlier, remembered when he was going to hit .450 and be a stud. That is because scouts and management within each organization talk these players up to ill informed and clueless media people who write about these " prospects " ad nauseum. I, as a Yankee fan, have heard numerous prospects talked up for the past 20 years. When they are traded, they usually don't have any impact at all. Yet back in the mid 90's I rarely heard the names Rivera, Jeter, Posada, ever mentioned in the newspapers. That's because they didn't want to draw attention to their REAL prospects. They only talked up the marginal guys so they could get something in return for nothing. ( See the David Cone and Chuck Knoblauch trades.) It is difficult to judge mid level talent when you are a pro scout with many years experience and some people can be swayed to believe that this guy or that guy is a stud if they read and hear about it enough. That is why clueless, arrogant, know nothing media types can be used to get the names of certain players out there because they only believe what they are told. They couldn't judge a prospect from a potato chip.
As long as Soriano produces more runs then gives away in center then it will be a success.
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