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Catch the latest news on NBA Blog, a journal of hoops-related commentary, news and analysis, and reader-driven discussions.9/01/2006 07:52:00 AM Seeking Solutions
It was one of those days for the U.S. and its fans.APAt the end of the third quarter, after poor clock management by the U.S. gave the Greeks time to hit a layup before the buzzer, a Gatorade commerical came on. You know the one -- Michael Jordan misses the last-second shot against Cleveland, Dwight Clark fails to make The Catch, etc. We've all seen it plenty of times.
As I watched the Greeks wrap up Friday's upset in the World Championship semifinals, I was thinking how Gatorade's rewritten history commercial has actually become reality for a U.S. team that used to dominate international play but now has failed to win a gold medal for the third straight tournament since winning the Olympics in 2000.
On the surface, there seems to be no logical reason why a team like Greece -- which may be the Euro champions but doesn't have a current NBA player on its roster -- should make the U.S. look as silly as it did on several occasions Friday, particularly in the middle two quarters when the Greeks built up a 14-point (14 points!) advantage. In terms of athleticism and skill level, I still think no country can match the U.S.
But if we've learned anything in the past six years, it's that NBA skills and one-on-one play just don't translate to the international game. While I'm sure there are plenty of people who know how to defend the pick-and-roll, unfortunately none of them were wearing Team USA jerseys in Japan on Friday. (And another thing -- who taught this team to shoot free throws, Shaq?)
So what's the solution? A full-time national team that plays a full schedule for four years and builds cohesion? A foreign coach who knows the international game? Going back to amateurs? Signing up the best guys from the local Hoop-It-Up tournament? Or do we just wait it out and see if Coach K can solve the problem before 2008?
Send me your thoughts -- and make it fast. Beijing's only two years away.posted by Mike McAllister | 645 comments |645 Comments:
Stop shooting so many threes!!!!
It was clear that we had no deep accurate threat and yet in most games too many O possessions consisted of shooting a three.
The foul shot shooting is just embarrassing. Awful.There wouldnt be a full-time team. What players would want to forego an NBA career for international team play? Bring in a coach who understands the international game OR put the NBA champions out there with the international players from that team substituted by a few NBA players with similar skills setsWell, we need people who can consistently shoot, and who are clutch (Kobe, Kobe.) We also need to get players who can defend the pick and roll and run a half-court offense. We need to pick the best international players, regardless of whether they're NBA or college. Play Carmelo, Kobe, Chauncey, Lebron, and Dwight Howard, and have Redd, Adam Morrison, Paul, Greg Oden, and Amare Stoudemire come off the bench. We need AT LEAST three jump shooters. On that first team, Kobe and Carmelo should be the first and second options by a LONG SHOT; not becase they're necessarily better than Lebron and Howard (well, Kobe is), but because they translate well to the international game. Howard, Oden, and Stoudemire would dominate the boards and provide good weakside help; let Billups, Paul, and James run the offense; and let Kobe, Redd, and Morrison kill teams from the perimeter.i would think the US didnt do bad in their quest for a gold medal at the WCOB. this team had a months time to practice. and the team that they played was a team with more international experience than they have. Coach K was a good choice, but he should had another NBA
coach, say Phil Jackson, who uses the triangle offense, to help him in US quest for global supremacy again in basketball. Also some of the main superstars from the NBA are missing and that is why they lost.Solution # 1:
Send the Eastern or Western conf. champs to play as a TEAM.
Solution # 2:
Pick an nba team...any nba team and send them as a whole.
The opperative word here is TEAM.
Raymond, Cape Coral, FL.W NEED ACTUAL ROLE PLAYERS. Thats what Colangelo said he was going to do.. brought in Battier and Bowen, then cut Bowen. Leaving Team USA with 1 role player and 11 super-stars, and still NO SHOOTERS. Bring back Battier, and some shooters like Kyle Korver, JJ Reddick, and 5 or 6 pick setting, floor diving hustle players, and 2 or 3 superstars. These "go-to" guys then need more than 25 min. in the game. They get to get hot and stay hot.In a way, the 1992 Dream Team was a blessing and a curse. It showed the world NBA-caliber basketball, but also made the world want to play with these guys. Basketball is not a game is pure athleticism...it's a game of fundamentals. This current team got killed on the boards and, in the end, it hurt them. I would be willing to bet you could match-up the best team in Europe against the Miami Heat and they would beat the Heat.Until we send our best (i.e. Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Shaq, Tim Duncan), we will continue to win Bronze medals. The "young guns" represented us well, but we need "the vets" to lead us to Gold!!!When your offense runs nothing but a pick and roll whether it is against a man or zone something is wrong. When other teams played zone the US wouldn't find the open areas, it was just have a big set a ball screen and make a play. They won't win unless they are able to run some plays. Coach K is a good coach and a good recruiter but he isn't a mastermind of the international game. We should have a coach is around full time instead of someone who has many other duties. This coach should be around when for the U18 and higher have tryouts to see which players fit the international play better. It should be much like a good high school program. The kids run the same thing from the time they are young and gradually make it a little more complicated as they get older. I could be wrong but isn't that how other countries do it.I'm not sure there is an easy answer. Having players play together full time for four years would work, but the talent that would emerge from that team would be lower than most NBA teams. What players would choose that over millions in the NBA? College kids aren't the answer either because they would be up against older, bigger men from other nations.
As a UNC alum, it's hard for me to say this, but let's see if Coach K can pull the team together before the Olympics. The group has looked good at times, and who knows? Maybe the young guys can pull it tgoether for 2008. That would really make Lebron the new MJ.Dear Mike,
I think the last 6 years haven't taught anything to US team. Especially that to beat European teams, the coach has to know them. In the press conference coach K congratulate all the Greece players but He did not know the name of any of them! The individual superiority of every Us players over any other team player is embarrassing. Well The point is that in international game you play more 5vs5 than 1vs1. The zone-defense squeezes the paint and you are force either to shoot from outside or to pass the ball more than US did!This was a very young team for such an international experience. I'm not surprised they finally flubbed up. With another interior defender--or two, the US should be set for Beijing 2008.
I do think that US coaching--not only in Japan, but everywhere--needs to practice more at penetrating zone defenses. We settled for too many 3s in this game and the Germany game.Hello, seeing things from Europe (Spain) it is obvious you have the best players but not the best team. Perhaps you should try to build a real team.They need a shooter i don't understand why they didn't keep adam morrison because he is one of those shooters and they need to get mr. redd out here a.s.a.pteam usa just needs to continue with the program and familiarize with international play. play more together and familiarize with each other. they will get thereWe need more time to put together a team. You can't put 12 guys together in 3 weeks and expect to have a team good enough to win the Gold. Also,
again we put together a team of athletes and not basketball players. Why not include a few 3 point specialists on the team ?
In addition, the NBA should adapt a few FIBA rules to make the international game less foreign to NBA players.The rest of the world smirks when the NBA plays for its world championship. World championships are contested by more than two countries, and it was phenomenal to see the Greek team triumph with talent, heart and determination. The fact that Greece has no NBA players merely shows that the NBA does not enjoy the supremacy it had over ten years ago on the world stage.I listened to coach Krzyzewski on TV after the match. He spent very good words for Greek players naming them by number. It looked like he did not know the name of any Greek player.
I think knowing the opponents means respecting them. Without respect U.S. is going to loose for years.I like what Greece was doing today, they played outstanding team basketball.
I believe the US squad is just not focused enough to play their best basketball. I guess they are pretty relaxed and loose while preparing for games, and at tip-off they cannot raise their concentration at the push of a button.I think we showed today that, no matter how many players are in the NBA (does this really matter?), Greece is a better team than USA. And we won the game actually playing USA's favorite game: run'n'gun.
So, the issue is not what USA did wrong. It's more like what areas of their game they need to improve on, if they are to compete in this level...if it's a 1 on 1 game...I'm sure nobody beats the US, no teamwork at allDear Mike,
I don't think it's quite as easy as thinking up a solution in 5 minutes and then running with it. The international basketball community has caught up to the US. It's as simple as that. Not only on a player level, but a coaching level as well.
I believe these international games offer far more intrigue than an NBA game. Notice that the games don't drag on for over three hours. Coaches can't burn fifteen time-outs towards the end of a game, making the last 15 seconds turn into an hour. I think one of the best things USA basketball can do in order to better compete is for the NBA to adopt ALL FIBA international rules. Bigger lane. Zone defense. Shorter 3-point line. 5 fouls per player. 10 minutes per quarter.
Meanwhile, we all know the NBA won't do that. So we're really playing a different game. It's similar to a professional tennis player training and competing on hard courts for 9 months and then suddenly playing Roland Garros on slow red clay.
The USA was able to compete in this tournament because of its superior athleticism, but it proved not to be enough to win big games. The best road to recovery would be for the NBA players to play on the same playing field -- ie, under international rules.Let me say just one thing: (I am Italian and even our team were closed to win against US!) Humility.
Basket is a team play no one on one game. And more, as always in the life, "brain" is the most powerful thing to achiev anthing.
Good luck for 2008. ArrivederciThere is no need to panic. Greece was HOT from the field after the first quarter. When we get all the players healthy (Kobe,Gilbert A.,J.J.) we will win the gold in '08. Greece is a very good team.We knew we needed shooters and defense...but the team is still more of an off season all star team that is weak on outside shooting...and we kept Brad Miller over Bruce Bowen? Where is Micheal Redd?Team USA will never win until they realize that there are very skilled players in Europe even if they don't play in the NBA. US players and coach didn't even know the name of the players that beat them! Papaloukas was voted MVP of the Euroleague and the EuroChampionship. You have to respect them, to know them if you want to beat them. The only one who realy know world basketball are those working for NBA Dratf sites. They nedd to know everything about world players in order to keep in touch with reality. Why don't you just hire them to explain who is Spanoulis and how good are Belinelli, Scola, Garbajosa, Navarro and all the players not playing in the NBA?Hello, seen from Europe it is difficult to understand how players who play so well in the NBA can play so bad (except Carmelo Anthony) outside the NBA. Here in the ACB (Spanish league) there are a lot of US players and they are usually among the best in there teams. So I really do not understand it.The other teams don't have a designated international team. They are al pros who play all over europe for example and come together every now and then. Bottom line is basketball is team sport where good team work will trump individual talent. I think the NBA is over rated big time. Take Greece, Argentina, Spain as a team and I guarantee you they can make a run at the NBA's "world championship". As an American I am very sad today.Mike,
I think Coach K did an excellent job coaching in this year's World Championships. We seem to forget that this was not the "Best" team that USA had to offer. I think we should emphasize the honor in representing the US in international play. What happened to the commitments ( or lack thereof ) from players, Especially big men, such as Shaq, Garnett, and Duncan ? We have to put a sense of urgency into this matter. I hate to see us losing to other countries when I know deep down that we have the best players on the planet. Honestly, regardless of this recent outcome, I believe that the addition of Kobe Bryant and a healthy Amare Stoudamire, along with Michael Redd ( Zonebuster ) will bring back the gold on '08. My Fantasy : To see Shaq and Kobe bury the hatchet and save the US from mediocrity by joining forces to bring home the gold !Well, we need people who can consistently shoot, and who are clutch (Kobe, Kobe.) We also need to get players who can defend the pick and roll and run a half-court offense. We need to pick the best international players, regardless of whether they're NBA or college. Play Carmelo, Kobe, Chauncey, Lebron, and Dwight Howard, and have Redd, Adam Morrison, Paul, Greg Oden, and Amare Stoudemire come off the bench. We need AT LEAST three jump shooters. On that first team, Kobe and Carmelo should be the first and second options by a LONG SHOT; not becase they're necessarily better than Lebron and Howard (well, Kobe is), but because they translate well to the international game. Howard, Oden, and Stoudemire would dominate the boards and provide good weakside help; let Billups, Paul, and James run the offense; and let Kobe, Redd, and Morrison kill teams from the perimeter.Nothing you can do. Simply the rest of the world caught on and they are better TEAMS unless proven otherwise. Any one of these 3 teams (Greece, Argentina, Spain) can play in the NBA and possibly win a title.What we need to do is get rid of these NBA players and get a bunch of college all-stars. Players who actually believe the coach is above them and who will listen. The problem with NBA players is its all about the money. They may say its about pride and so what but in their mind they are thinking about their NBA future. We need to put a team together that actually wants to be out there. TEAM not individual superstars. Plus why play 12 superstars. All you really need is just 2 or 3 and a bunch of role players. More importantly...the minutes each player plays. Coach needs to leave players in for 30 or 35 minutes. Everytime I check the stat sheets is like each player plays like 12-20 mins. And those mintues are spread out also. Players can't get into a groove by only playing that many minutes these days.Do you, Americans, still call NBA Champion a World Champion? Well, it's a kind of obsolete...No defense, no team play, no clutch shooters when it really mattered. What else? No knowledge of international rules (Hinrich'flagrant foul on Shortsianidis)
I'm glad Greece won though, what a great team! Forza Grecia!!!! Grandissimi!!!!
Filippo
ItalyWhat we are seeing is a fundamental problem with the way that the majority of elite players play basketball in the US. They do not understand the game and the subtle nuances of how all the skills required fit together. All the elite players do is shoot threes or dunk. No defense is played, no offense is run, foul shooting is a joke. The key is playing together as a group using all the skills and knowledge required to play good fundamental basketball not as a bunch of superstar individuals doing their own thing.Two words:
Kobe Bryanteasy, send rasheed and tayshaun.The NBA is agame of individuals against individauls! FIBA rules are designed for a team game with a lot of ball movement. We need to send the best team and have a coach that understands the international game. We'll never win sending an All Star team to the World Championships.Pure shooters!!!! Thats the answer. J.J. Redick, Adam Morrison, or bring Reggie Miller outta retirement. I'm also thinking Chris Webber would have helped this team. as much as i dislike Kobe i know he wouldn't have let this happen.The reality is that the United States are not the best basketball team in the world and haven't been for 6 years. If this were any other country they would be proud of their performance and recognize that their 3rd or 4th place finish is an improvement over the last World Championships. The only thing the US players are the best in the world at is income.It's clear that out US team's individual players are geared towards self play. Basketball is a team sport. The European teams understand the team concept and we don't. End quote!Claiming that the rest of the world has cought up to US basketball is just absurd. Are they better? Yes. But Brazil didn't win the world cup this year, that doesn't mean that any country has more soccer talent than they. You can only get 5 guys on the court at 1 time and any nation can find 5 good basketball players. The US' problem is the same as it has been for several years. In international play everyone plays zone defense and forces them to shoot from the outside (which they can't.) The solution is to get some guys out there who make the other teams guard the outside shot. The defense wasn't great, but that hasn't been a weak point in this tournament. They give up a lot of points because they play up tempo. The telling factor was how many turnovers they forced in the tournament. I thin Kobe and Michael Redd would make this team better.This squad was doomed from the minute Coach K cut Bruce Bowen. Only so many millionaire idleheads one can have, and role players are the ones who AREN'T a dime a dozen when it comes to international play.While we did a better job sending players a little better suited to the international game, we still didn't send what anyone would consider to be a team of international basketball players. And that is because the NBA game is significantly different than the international game. Not so much in terms of the rules, but rather the enforcement of the rules. Not to mention that international teams rely heavily on motion and teamwork; two lost arts in today's NBA game.So let me get this straight: Coach K came in to teach this group of NBA players how to play TEAM ball and they go out and play, what, NBA iso for 40 minutes? How many of you have EVER seen Koach K's Dookie teams play like that? Where were the plays? Where was the ball movement? LeBron was a black hole. He must have had more offensive fouls that made jumpers. D-Wade couldnt hit the side of a barn from outside. Or from the free-throw line against Greece. Where was Rip Hamilton? It would have been nice to see someone attempt a mid-range shot against Greece's packed in zone. Colangelo and those guys STILL havent figured out the internatioal game. If Coach K can't get these guys to swing the ball, NO ONE can.I feel your pain. The Canadian men's hockey team routinely suffers a similar fate at the Olympic games. Having the best athletes in the world available means nothing when they get outplayed by countries whose teams actually function as teams.Understandably most negative comments stem from the last 2 games. Overall I felt the US team played well with the pieces available. Shooting wasn't a problem until the last 2 games, neither was the ability to play sound defense. Greece had a very well put together team.
I agree that the team USA needed a Michael Redd, Kobe Bryant and possibly a Gilbert Arenas in order to provide consistancy from the deep jump shot.
I still believe Gold in '08 is attainable.The answer is obvious. The NBA needs to have the same rules as the rest of the world. The NBA is not real basketball. These players don't know how to play as a team. If the NBA had the same rules as the rest of the world the US team might have a chance. The NBA is all about selling and marketing and not about learning and playing basketball the right way. David Stern and the rest of the NBA execs could care less about the quality of the product as long as they continue to sell jerseys, tix, etc.I still see people saying Kobe, and Shaq, and Rasheed etc etc....You still fail to realize that basketball is a 5-on-5 game, NOT -always- a 1-on-1. So, bring together the very best, if you don't make them a TEAM, you will still lose....
And yes, please stop calling the NBA "World Championship" or whatever...the World Championship is played every four years, and USA hasn't won one for years...and isn't going to win this one either...
Kryzsefski knew Panayiotis Yannakis, but NO ONE from the players. Do you think this is a good x-raying of your opponent ?I will agree with what's been said before.
Americans need to stop being so arrogant and start RESPECTING the opponent.
I am Greek and I feel EXTREMELY PROUD about what our team has accomplished so far. Basketball is all about team play and cooperation.
It hurts to be killed on the court by someone who you thought CERTAIN you'd leave for dead, doesn't it?
This is a good lesson in HUMBLENESS... Learn from it. :)It is clear to me that the US "dream team" really didn't knew what exactly to do how to recover from the 14 point advantage of our team and the stable advantage of 6 to 10 points in the 3rd and 4th periods.
Bad management of time and shooting opportunities, bad management of fouls, no management of the player psychology and of the 5 point difference of the last 2 minutes.
I am sure that the US team used to play always with no stress and a secure point difference of (sometimes) more than 25 points suddenly didn't knew how to solve its huge problems.
It was not responsibility of the players. The coach didn't do his job well.
Christos - Athens - Greece
Greece - US: 101-95If you want to get out of a hole the first rule is to stop digging.
It's letting us off too easy to say the skills our guys have don't "translate to the international game," as if the international game isn't basketball.
The correct way to put it is that the skills our guys have aren't BASKETBALL skills to the degree the rest of the world possesses.
Let's go from there.In my opinion:
It's the same reason I have gone from a NBA season ticket holder to not even be interested in watching the championship game on TV. They no longer know how to play as a team.
A player can't go from a selfish one on one mentality for an entire NBA season then suddenly make the switch to a team oriented game for an international tournament.As they say. another one bites the dust.
It's been said before, but what sort of offensive plays does the US run?
And why do you need so many similar guys? Lebron/wade/anthony are cut from the same mold, but they all lack the consistent three point threat.
Chauncy Billups would have been a great help but it wouldn't have changed much.
I'm intrigued to see how running , chauncy, kobe, marion, dwight (but only if he learns to shoot better) and any one of the three "captains" would fair. chauncy, kobe and marion are all players who know D. I think Howard has incredible upside, and we've heard enough about the three.
And some team offences please! Run a triangle if nothing else would work!
ps. why does Ray Allen not want to play?Change the NBA rules to International rules please.This current trend of US losses will continue until coaches and GMs stop favoring athleticism over all around skills. These losses highlight the change in American basketball from a team game played by skill players to a showcase of athleticism. If you're going to say the US is more skilled than international teams they should be able to shoot and play defense. The NBA's obsession with dunks, crossover dribbles, and behind the back passes has ruined the game of basketball beyond repair. We should create two leagues of professional basketball. One league would be a mix of the current NBA style with a little AND1/Globetrotter showmanship thrown in. Sadly to say most NBA players would be employed by this league. The other league would be about serious basketball with players showcasing all around skills like shooting and screen hedging. Obviously this league wouldn't be as popular but die-hard fans would be happy. It’s time for America to stop using international rules as an excuse for losing and examine the condition of American basketball.from a purely athletic standpoint, these european teams should have to work like crazy just to get a shot off vs. the americans. send over the top 12 defensive players in the nba and see what happens.Kobe won't help... So the all the Kobe fans can should stop drinking their Kobe Kool-Aid. They lost this on three things: poor defense, poor free throw shooting, and poor shot selection (if you can't make the 3's, why keep shooting them, this isn't playstation!!). They don't need vets to win. This team had plenty of talent, but no teamwork on the defensive end. They need to bring in a defensive-minded coach who also likes to attack: Avery Johnson!The team selection process was horrible, beginning with the coach selection. Did we even have any half court sets?
Does it help any when your best players are all the same guy? Nearly the entire U.S. roster was made up of penetration players. Drive and kick. They forgot the players that go on the last part of the drive and kick game.
Did Bowen, Morrison, or Arenas ever actually get a fair shot? I'd rather have Wade, Carmelo, or James over any one of those guys...just not all three.
Want to fix it: Put in Pop and RC Buford. There's not a better coach in the league. He would have put in a no gambling defense that worked on actually stopping people from scoring rather than creating the occasional turnover. Also, no other staff in the league knows the international scene like Pop does or gives it the proper respect.
Battier over Bowen? Get off it.Well I think you need to understand that having no NBA players does not mean you cannot play ball. Greece has been among the best of European play for 30 years. Also isolation play has dominated tactics in the NBA throughout the nineties, culminating in guys like Isayah Rider getting instant superstar status because they would know ho to play 1-1. This trend actually has eroded other skills like teamplay. The US needs to learn the finer points of basketball...period, not the finer points of isolating a guy on the wing and he'll figure it out for the rest. Homy don't play that!Think of the selection process in terms of baseball. You don't send 9 pitchers on the field all at the same time just because that's your best players...why do we do that with our basketball team? No diversity amongst our main guys.As a Canadian, this happened to us in hockey. We returned to dominance (although never re-achieving ultimate and perennial superiority) by going back to basics and re-learning the fundamentals. It was a long, hard struggle and we had to admit that we weren't the best anymore. We also had to commit that we could be again.
If you can't shoot threes, hit free throws, defend as a team and beat the pick and roll you will almost inevitably lose at some point in an elimination tournament.
As for picking the winning NBA team and putting them as the USA rep, hello!!! Check the rosters. Eliminate the international players from the winners and tell me again you have a competitive team? Maybe Miami or Detroit, but Dallas without Nowitzki? Phoenix without Nash? San Antonio without Duncan, Ginobili and Parker?The USA team has great players. But they should try to respect other teams and not be arrogant. Yesterday, most of the players were making comments that they are better than the Greek team. I agree that they are better players but they do not have a better team though. They should have known that the Greek team has been playing great team basketball in the last couple of years.
As someone else has already pointed out, the European teams get together 4 weeks before the international games start, so I do not think that the USA team had a cohesiveness problem. It is all about character. Coach K should try to bring more role players in the team.First of all, basket as football is a team play. And team means cooperation, team spirit, lots of work to blend in different player so as to think and react as a unit. On the other hand, team games need strategy. And strategy means that I study the opponent and try to take advantage of his flows and turn my good aspects into tools towards victory. You cannot expect a team, no matter how good players it has, to ever win a gold medal without having strategy. US thinks that by assembing teams using the best possible players around will ensure the gold medal. Well, as it was proved today, this is not enough. To conclude, team work - knowing the opponent - strategy and of course a good coach that will provide all the rest.Here is an idea: How about US Hoops acutally puts some thought into selecting players for the national sqaud. This US lacked quality jump shooters (in particular from behind the arc), was weak in their front court forwards, and didn't bring on enough guys who excel in game play without the ball (i.e. setting picks, boxing out, closes passing lanes, etc.). After selecting 3 top stars, the team management needs to step back and consider if they are covering all their bases and identify their weak spots and provide solutions to them.We would be wise to accept the fact that our basketball is just different than European play. All the little differences between the NBA and FIBA, the lane, the ball, goaltending, offensive foul rules, the number of fouls, 3 pt. distance, etc., all add up to make a huge difference. How else can you explain why Wade is neutralized and James looks uncoordinated at times? We should stop trying to force the issue and have our game, let them have their game. We could play one tournament with their rules and officials and one with ours and see what happens. That way the European teams can look silly and confused for a while, too.Send basketball players not millionaires with egos to match. Try picking the next team from the best of college basketball.Humility is a start.
Get rid of your 'World Champion' for all your leagues. The NBA champ is the champ of N.America, not the world.
Keep screaming and thump your chest. LOL.FEw words too
Humility
Be humble sice day 1 in practice
I Think nobody believes when American players say " we have to respect these teams and play hard"
They do not even know the names, they rely in their athleticism and 3 points and they run no stuctural defense/offense
Is that respect ?
I agree... Why we still call the NBA championship the "worl championship" Shame on us!Coach ***K knows only one way to coach (which is why his Dookies so seldom succeed in the pros), and if the three's aren't falling, there is no plan B.Mike, you may be right as regards athleticism but I can't disagree more with you when you say that the USA are still above the competition in terms of skills unless the notion of "skills" does not include 3 point shooting, 3 point shooting and being able to read and defend the pick and roll....
Stefano, ItalyNo Kobe. No Duncan. No Garnett. No J. O'Neal. No Ray Allen. We won all those years b/c we honestly tried to put the best players at every position in the league on the same team. Until we go back to that, we won't win. The World has caught up to us, it's time we accept it.Fantastic win of Greece (you have got to admire the athletes of this country: two years ago they surprised the rest of Europe by winning the european soccer cup). I think it is great that even small countries can beat the allmighty american NBA stars.
The difference off course being that Greece played like a team.
As for the strategy for the US: you need to get used to the fact that you can't always win, but at least make sure your players get more team to get used to eachother.From Barcelona I can only say that its time for the US to learn how to bounce the ball, how to pass and how to shoot. Welcome to the basketball of the smart, of the brave; summarizing of the brain.
Give up the muscle and the leap; please teach your children how to PLAY the game. All will win.Papaloukas,Scorchianitis,Ntikoudis,Spanoulis are some of the names coack K should use in his press conference instead of calling out numbers.No respect to your opponent shows poor homework by the coaching staff and just like all these past years athleticism and superior individual skills made the americans think they have a superior team.......In the short term, we obviosuly need more pure shooters, some of which simply weren't available for this tournament (Michael Redd, Kobe Bryant, Chauncey Billups, JJ Reddick, etc.). That said, I found it surprising that Adam Morrison wasn't included on the team for his shooting alone.
Still, even with better shooters, there's no guarantee we would have won. The simple fact is that the system for developing players in the U.S. is designed to create athletic, one-on-one superstars with very few fundamental skills and almost no understanding of the game's intracacies. The fact that no one on the team knows how to defend a pick and roll is only one example of a much bigger problem. NBA Commissioner David Stern and NCAA president Myles Brand have both talked recently about finding ways to revamp the way elite basketball players are developed but there's no way to know if anything will actually get done or if it's just lip service.
Until the bigger problem is fixed or something more drastic is done - like shortening the NBA season in years when there's a big international competition - the US will continue to struggle.This is from a Greek fan.
NBA, is still a fantastic basketball show.. Key term here is "show".
In international game , you need to play in a team manner and not on a personal athletic skill level.
When this is clear to your coaches, then you might be able to come back on International level and claim cups.
For the time being , Europe is gaining more and more ground , against US team, since it has many players in NBA and can learn the howto manner of that league.
As far as the name "Dream Team"...according to my oppinion , the only one that can carry this name with pride is the 1992 team.Two words: Rip Hamilton.
Seriously, he's the best catch-and shoot midrange guy in the entire league. and last year he extended his range and upped his 3pt shooting by 15 percentage points. seriously, two years ago he was a 30 % 3pt shooter, this last year he was a 45% shooter. and given that the international line is a bit closer, i figure he'll do great.
remember, the dream team had reggie miller, who shot 53% from 3pt range back in like 94 or 96. he had one game where he was 8-for-11 from 3pt range.
rip hamilton is the closest thing the nba has today to reggie miller. so put him on this teamthey have alot of coaches who seal with overseas play, so thats not problem. coach k is about has good has u can get in coaching, he has alot more time and focus to plan for these games. so those are not the problems. the problems are nba palyers need more experience and our basketball coachs sold us out by teaching our game world wide. for example the don and donnie nelson. those secrets and techniques they gave away upon countless others sold us out. so only time can correct the problem. but to me its good competion and its good basketball, if its us just killing everyone who would watch.Well, if this the team you build, then this is the team you have to live with. The difference between the Dream Team and the team now is that you had the best players for just about every position in their prime versus guys who have what looks to me like an average of 3 years experience between them. While our our best players (these guys are great too don't get me wrong)choose not to represent their own country, the rest of the world just keeps getting better.
Daryl (DMc)
Chicago, ILhello from Italy. I was extremely happy that Greece won the semi. They played proper, hard-core european basketball. Strong defence and fast, although well controlled, attacks. I cannot forget the 1992 dream tema final against the amazing as well Croatia. I would like to say 2 things: NBA talent is not anymore at the level that it was in the 90's. That leads to the second comment. You really need to build a team which enjoys to play, for themselves and for the country, and they dont think of other european teams as inferior, because these thoughts bring disaster. Remember the great Yugoplastica. Alex from RomeI think one important thing would be to get rid of a specific American characteritic: arrogance!
the USA has to accept that there are other nations out there that know how to play the game. the players have to realice that. You can't tell me that these players don't know how to play against a pick and roll? eventhough if you used to watch stockalone or nash nowitzki you could think so. You have to teach them the game and not just athletics. send them to university and not straight to the show and entertainment league of the nba, where the real basketball is only played during the playoffs.You (I mean USA) still has the best athletes, the best skilled individuals, but FIBA's game is another stoy you need a TEAM ... take a look over Greece, Argentina and SPAIN (The most dominant team in this tournament) all of them are team oriented, okey Spain has Pau, Argentina has Manu, Nocioni ... but they are playing for "its colours", it is a question of pride, rigth attitude, rigth message ... leaving out Bruce Bowen USA BBall sent a message we care about jerseys' sale more than getting this tournament ... attitude when Melo starts to say we are ready to get the gold .. your mindset is away from the court.
You (USA) still has the best skilled guys in the world, but not a TEAM, Greece, Argentina, Spain play a team oriented game.
How to solve it? probably without some NBA's boy USA won't never got the gold anymore, but ... those boy need to mix with role players and FIBA's players ... imagine there are many thousands americans players around the world that could consider the honor of representing your country ... they understand FIBA's rules probably more team oriented than worried about jerseys.
Last mention you deserve, hey ... you will play for the Bronze .. not too bad ... Argentina, an excellent team will be there.Stop overpaying mediocre players. Re-introduce zone defense. Stop relying on iso plays alone. Call travelling and carries. The NBA hasn't contained real basketball in years; there are no incentives to play defense or learn fundamentals; it has degenerated into Harlem Globetrotter-esqe side shows.Grazie Filippo!
Sorry guys but you make the same mistake! a few more stars will not make U.S. a better team! you need to realise the difference of NBA and FIBA
and respect your oponents! i think you overestimate coach K.The fact that most of the U.S. team headed for the locker room instead of congratulating the Greek squad says it all. There is little honour, ethics, or morality left in the NBA - just look at the local news each night. I wonder if the team's composition was actually up to Coach K? The international game is all about attacking the help defender and then finding the open man for the shot (preferaby for 3). If you can't defend this concept (and the U.S. could not) or shoot the ball (again the U.S. showed it could dunk with the best of them, but shooting ability...not so much)then you will not beat anybody in the top 20% of international basketball. Solution: coach - keep Coach K (or another top level college coach); players - get guys who will hustle, can shoot, and don't care about dunking.What we learned today is that there is "NO I" in team.
Yes you do need talend and skills
but without dedication,determination and "TEAMWORK" you dont win at the "TOP WORLD LEVEL".
Congratulations and RESPECT to Greece and back to the drawing board for the US.1. Where is the Chris Mullin/Larry Bird outside threat? No one even close on this roster.
2. How many post entry passes were made for our post players? I could count the total for all 8 games on both hands. No inside-out presence.
3. With our athleticism we can't put on a full-court pressure defense against Greece?
4. Where was the Boehiem influence regarding the zone offense (or even defense)?
5. When a US star is 1-10 in the half (especially jacking up 3s), don't we have 7 other guys on the bench?No Respect. No respect for non-NBA players. This is the key point of your losses in the last 4 years. Your coach does not know the names of the Greek players (he congratulates to them referring to their numbers). They are the European champions and you have to pay respect to them! You will continue to lose if you don't respect the others!!!
Dario
http://www.tlc.unipr.it/fertonaniAs an Israeli who is a fan of both the NBA and European basketball, I have to say that in my opinion the main problem of the U.S teams is mental. They always come to this tournaments thinking they are going to win the gold easily. Although a lot of things did change in the preparation for this tournament (In my opinion, all the changes are good), that kind of thinking didn't.
I do think that the USA is the best basketball nation in the world, but guess what; other nations have great basketball teams. You always have to respect your opponent, and I don't feel that from the US side.
If Greece and the USA team would play a best of 7 series, the US would probably win. But this is a single game. You have to remember that in the knockout phase, every game is game 7 and you have to really bring it on the court.
One of the reasons we all love sports so much is that sometimes the underdog win, that is what happened today, not a tragedy just sport.
Another thing to think about is that the NBA season is absolutely brutal (some of these guys played 100+ games). That is a big advantage for teams like Greece (A great basketball nation) whose players are much fresher after their relatively easier season.Basketball is a team sport. The NBA is a "MADE for TV" one on one spectacle that focuses on individual talent. The NBA is all about commercialism and branding and the players are the "brand". There is no "team" in the NBA just players.You never win matches on the paper, its the team who win the matches. Just look at Real Madrid in fotball best players but not exatcly the best of results. That because they play like indviduals but not as a team. The same principle goes for US basketball team.We can't compare these losing USA teams to past USA gold medal winning teams. Why? Most players from those teams were considered hall of famers before they even put on the USA jersey. Most importantly...those players know how to win. I believe almost every player on those rosters have been on winning NBA teams. Why pick players who have been on losing teams their whole career so far? Doesn't that show that their skills/attitute isn't working. I say we need to change the selection process.
1.) Only pick players who have been in the league at least 5 years.
2.) Only pick players who have won a division title.
3.) Half the roster has to have won a NBA title.
4.) Pick one guy that will motivate the other players to sacrifice/play up to their potential. (ala Jordan or Shaq...they are the true coaches of those USA gold medal winning teams)Let's face it, this was the best tournament the USA played in a long time, since Sydney 2000 probably.
The same thing that happened to British soccer after WW1 is now happening to the NBA in this era of globalization: the rest of the world is catching up. USA basketball is overhyped, and probably hasn't been as good as it thought it was since the late 90's. The NBA is still hands down the best league in the world, but the American sports public, who don't entirely embrace the internationalism of soccer, will probably be forced to do so for basketball.
Let's all realize that in soccer, Brazil doesn't win every world cup, and from here out, USA basketball isn't going to win every title, probably not even most of the titles. Those days are long gone, and won't ever be back again.You must select a NBA team to play internationally. For example for Benjin 2008 the Detroit Pistons, for the 2010 World Championship the Houston Rockets, ......"On the surface, there seems to be no logical reason why a team like Greece -- which may be the Euro champions but doesn't have a current NBA player on its roster -- should make the U.S. look as silly as it did on several occasions Friday...."!!!!!!!!!!!
Please think!!! European players might be equal and some times better than NBA players.
"In terms of athleticism and skill level, I still think no country can match the U.S."!!!!!!
Well if that is what u think then my ansewer to your question is " Send USA players to get propper tainning in Greek basketball teams"
Takis
GreeceEasy Fix: BOB KNIGHThow about giving the greeks or the spanish an american citizenship.......a view from Germany: Start to play more as a team and actually the US coach should have known that he was facing zone defense against his stars and should have invented and practised several screens for his team. To defend pick n roll shouldn't be a mystery in the NBA after watching Stockton/Malone for over a decade in UtahI love all these Europeans who are posting thinking they actually accomplished something. It's hilarious! Talking about respect and humility! Do they think the Greeks could even beat the Hawks? For real?? Stern needs to swallow hard, call Billy Hunter and work out whatever needs to be done and send the reining NBA champs over to the Olympics and remind the world why they all want to be America!I say we bring back the dream team. They can't do any worse than this team.It's obvious that the FIBA rules were constructed to stop American players from winning, but the Americans problem is that they don't play to their strengths. Howard and Brand are absolute monsters, yet played sparingly, too many players means not enough minutes. They need to establish goto guys and force the ball to them, this tournament has shown that Anthony is better suited for the FIBA game than any other player, and perhaps it makes sense to run the offense through him. As far as their defense is concerned, maybe they should play more like the Suns, and run and gun, they're not going to suddenly learn how to play team D playing for a month every year. Instead just get quick buckets and never foul. Push the tempo, they have 2 gaurds perfect for that, Paul and Kirk, and a number of guys that are super fast and break down D, Lebron, Wade, two big guys that can run, Howard and Brand, and let Anthony pick up the garbage points.Seeking solutions, such a good challenge.
I will give you my point of view, not sure that will fix the problem.
The very first problem is thinking that USA deserves every gold medal out there just for inventing this game (FORGET IT), USA as any other NT playing International tournaments has to compete, and compete mean stay together ... loog at Spain (#1), Argentina (#2), Greece (#3) and USA (#4) all those teams could defeat USA because they are prepared for that, how USA could prepare ... playing under FIBA's rule ...
Second, if USA will continue sending NBA's STARS eliminate that Start treatment you have in your league (I know is beautiful to watch that the most talented guy always got his consideration), FIBA's ref (sorry for saying this) 'sucks'for everyone.
Third, a combination of dedication (Full time coach, FIBA's players, role players, less stars and more team oriented).
Even all those things I said, even all those reasoning all people could give you, accept that USA won't win every medla out there, you know why because there are amazing teams like Spain, Greece, Argentina, Brazil that are prepared to conquer medals.The NBA essentially is now like the old Harlem Globetrotters ... the show is what counts and whatever sells is what will be shown -- the shimmy shakes, the chest thumps, the ridiculous self-celebrations every time a guy hits a basket ... focused on for five seconds by the ESPN cameras.
The worst thing for US basketball has been the advent of the camera shot on the individual after a play and the shoe money and marketing.
Until the US players start to focus on basketball and not their TV schtick, they will continue to get beat when they play real basketball teams. Simple as that.Umm...how about we just send the Pistons? We could include Ben Wallace in the team for nostalgia. The team is mostly American and you just know that the mean streak you need to win would be there.Just look at international soccer. Believe it or not the players we see every four years in the World Cup are actually much bigger stars for their club teams. Yet as Americans we find that playing for our country in basketball is a burden. A national team should play 'friendlys' and tournaments throughout the year. We are no longer the best nation at ANY sport! Until we decide to devote ourselves as much as the other countries we will continue to be second tier.I just think the US team can't win at all. And stop making excuse for the internation rule, we don't play together for time. We are suppose to have the best player on Earth... So stop calling ourself WORLD CAHMPION when we can't even go to the WCOB final.I've said it before the tournament and I'll say it again. The US team needs shoooters. Nobody can argue this now. Greece shot extremely well and they hit their 3-pointers. And i'd like to point out that the 3pt shot is worth 3 points! So if Greece scores a 3-pt shot..and then the Americans get a dunk..that's not good enough. JJ Redick and Adam Morrison have got to be locks for the Olympics in 2008. This is not the players fault, at least not fully. Its the coaching staff that should take the blame. How can a team that doesn't have a single NBA player beat the US? By shooting the lights out. Its as simple as that.I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, GO BAck to using Collegiate Players!
These NBA guys are not that enthused about playing in the World games so why keep sending them! LeBron played like a dog for most of the whole tournament, D-Wade looked like he wished he was home! The only player who seemed up to the challenge was Carmelo, he has just about changed the whole way the public has viewed him up to now! If not college guys then we need mainly second tier type guys who will play with guts and heart the way Shane Battier was doing out there, and Kirk Hinrich aint the best but the guy got after it,those two together gave more effort than any of those so-called Super Stars we have!
man I'm just ticked that these guys can't even show enough discipline to defend properly, make free throws, we lost this game on lack of pick n roll defense and free throws alone!!!!!!
And coach K, for all his accomplishments, that was a terrible coaching job to say the least! Greece adjusted to the full court man to man defense in the 1st Qtr, yet we kept playing it and they kept beating us for layups, my Gosh, play a little zone or something!!!Where can I watch more basketball like I've watched in this tournament? Solid fundamentals and understanding of the game is so fun to watch. It is not an option here in the United States.So many thoughts! The reason team USA(which is almost an oxymoron)has been so disappointing has more to do with pride than basketball. Other players take pride in representing their country. We take pride in money and celebrity. Our players have been coddled for so much of their young lives that they do not recognize that a way of life and basketball exists outside of the one that has been designed for them to succed in. Having never been faced with a situation where their superior athletic ability wasn't enough to collectively overcome any other deficiencies in their respective games, most of the players looked like deer in headlights the majority of the tournament. The NBA should emphasize fundamentals and the only way to do that is to pay players less money so that they actually have standards to achieve to earn their salaries. That will never happen so in the meantime we should send a couple of point guards(that can shoot), As many shooters as the bus can hold(Redd,Reddick,Allen,Morrison)and rebounders(Ben Wallace,Amare Stoudamire,Kevin Garnett). Throw in Carmelo and Kobe for all around talent and heart! That team would win! It wouldn't matter how long they played together because they would hit shots consistently! Basically despite all that I've said (which is true), the bottom line is our team would have won if they could shoot at all.Just look at international soccer. Believe it or not the players we see every four years in the World Cup are actually much bigger stars for their club teams. Yet as Americans we find that playing for our country in basketball is a burden. A national team should play 'friendlys' and tournaments throughout the year. We are no longer the best nation at ANY sport! Until we decide to devote ourselves as much as the other countries we will continue to be second tier.I am a greek and I am very proud for my team.I admire a lot your players because they are the best in the world in skills but we had the "team"...And we won because basketball is "teamwork"...We will never have a Carmello Anthony or a Michael Jordan... but today we had a great team who was above the great names of U.S.A...
I love this game...
Come to Greece for vacations...It is amazing...sore loosers !! when will the US stop wining" oh we did not have the best plyers.. there was no kobe , shaq.. oh shut up. If the team you sent was the one you though would win the gold, why the long face?
The world hs caught up and this shows how overrated the NBA isI didn't think the US played that bad. They just played like a team that hadn't been together very long.
Running into a battle tested Greek outfit and beating them was always going to be a stuggle, but Coach K and the rest of the team should be commended for showing up and giving it their all.
I think they should continue with their program, having a full time team and coach is a little unrealistic, but once these guys get to know each other and the international game then they'll be that battle tested team no one wants to play.
As for the NBA vs International Rules, Commissioner Stearn has to be impressed with the fluidity of the international game. Isn't this something of what he envisioned as he tried to clear away 1 on 1 isolations and boring post play?The only solution is for the american people, and the american players to realize that they are no longer the best team in the world. The euro leagues have the same rules as FIBA, so they don't have to assimilate their game to the rules like the Americans. As well the Americans are a young squad going up against multi year euro league veterans who know the nuances of the International game. As well a point to remember is that the Americans were missing their best player(kobe bryant) whose game actually fits well in the international game. If the US squad doesn't win in Beijing with Kobe then Americans should start worrying.The blame for this loss can be spread throughout in my opinion. Coach K brought Jim Boeheim with him to help with attacking zone defenses and it never really looked like they knew what they were doing. Coach K also should've done a better job of telling these players that teams are not going to just wither and die when the US shows up on the court. If history has taught us anything its that the USA can not just hsow up and expect to win and for some reason it seems like that concept is still not etched into the minds of every player. In addition if Team USA is going to take 12 players, use all 12 players. Brad Miller never even saw the court and he is the perfect guy to flash high against a zone defense. Team USA was better off keeping Bowen for his stellar D and 3-point ability.
Going into Beijing, Team USA needs to add at least or two more strong outside shooters and another big man to play with Dwight Howard. A lineup of Diwght Howard, Amare Stoudemire, Carmelo Anthony, Kobe Bryant, and either Kirk Hinrich or Michael Redd should help out a lot. There should also be at least two glue guys like Shane Battier and Bruce Bowen that are basically going to be called on to play defense and hit threes from the corner. There is a wealth of resources and knowledge available to Coach K with this staff as well as with players and he isn't using all of it to the best of the team's availability.
If this fails to work the USA should go back to taking college players. I fell pretty confident that the Florida Gators could beat the more fundamentally sound teams as the college game is much more similiar to the international style of play. At the end of the day I find it hard to believe that the rest of the world has caught up to the United States. The US will always have the better athletes and more physical players, but the lack of the basic fundamentals of the game of basketball are killing Team USA and that is what is needed to win in these types of tournaments.The fix is simple: start teaching kids in the US basics and fundamentals again. The US was the most athletic team in the WCOB...by far. Yet, they lack the basic skills like freethrow shooting, perimeter shooting, rebounding, but most importantly and most embarrassingly, our guys lack the INTELLIGENCE and EXPERIENCE running anything else than a 1-on-1 offense. Not enough passing, not enough assisting, and no clue how to defend against an offense like that. The 2004 Detroit squad that was the NBA Champ that year would have done much better at the WCOB. They really played as a team. If we can cultivate that kind of player and work ethic, we can win again. In the meantime, we'll keep losing with athletes that are not smart and educated enough and have been relying on their height, quickness and leaping ability from when they first started playing as kids.It will be great, if we start World Club Championship. The champions from each professional league (NBA, Italian, French..), should play against each other and decide the real 'World Champion'In the ESPN poll, the last questions asks the user to choose between "Which would you rather see?
(A) Team USA win a gold medal at the 2008 Olympics
(B)Your favorite team win an NBA championship "
Needless to say that around 60% voted choice B. This shows that people are not ready to win the world stage. They prefer NBA and this mendality -right or wrong, logical or not, anybody's guess- prevails in the players as well.I think we just need to be patient these guys needed to lose so they know the feeling that there not invincible there are by comparision to the dream team of 1990 very young so 2 years from now in china these guys are going to be way better than they are now just from experince and the fact that have played together and internationly believe me team usa is in good hands with coach k.(1) Overpaid NBA "superstars" who don't want to play for the US national team (which shows their "national" pride)
(2) To believe that the best basketball of the world is played in the NBA (and calling the NBA champions "world champions", which is ridiculous)
(3) No respect for US opponents (coach K calling out numbers when referring to the greek players at the after-game press conference).
We have just seen the results... the greek national team beat the US "team". Until these factors change, we won't see any US "team" getting the gold medal.Three things: 1) The US should do what every other country does: hire a full time coach who works for USA Basketball full time, and not a part time coach who has other commitments such as Duke, the Suns, the Sonics or whoever. 2)If the NBA won't change their rules to be more FIBA-like then at least try to get the NCAA to do so. 3)Put some pride into free throw shooting.If we sent our best players, like every other country does, we would dominate just like the original Dream Team did. I know Kobe is hurt, but where is Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Shaq, Tracey McGrady, Paul Pierce, even Jason Kidd? It says alot about our country and our pride, or lack there of, not to send our proven best of the best.The problem starts with the NBA. David Stern focuses on the individual for marketing and business purposes rather than the team. This goes against everything good about basketball. Take the NBA finals for example. Dallas was the better team and should have won the series if it weren't for rediculous calls for Wade. In exhbition games prior to this past international tournament, the same official that was officiating that series actually called traveling on Wade. Very funny. The answer is start focusing on team basketball, and play the game like it was intended to be played. Otherwise, we need to put college players out there who have not been corrupted by the NBA.your team is not a team...u have only 2 players and today only one...greece use 12 players in every match.
forza greece
σηκωσε το ...το γαμημενο δεν μπορω..δεν μπορω να περιμενω..I completely agree with Mario from Turin "...It looked like he (Coach K) did not know the name of any Greek player.
I think knowing the opponents means respecting them. Without respect U.S. is going to loose for years." By the way...ITALY is already World ChampionAny of Argentina, Greece or Spain would have beaten the US team.
NBA is a show full of incredible athletes. International basketball is a sport of skill and accuracy and intelligence.
Two very different things and as long as anyone in the US will be convinced that NBA is basketball I don't that success will return.Asking NBA players to go win in the international game is like asking NFL players to go win a rugby tournament. Would they be good? Probably. would it be interesting to watch? Yes. Would they win? No. Why? Because it's simply a different game than the one they are accostomed to playing. Most of these guys never had to shoot the longball and haven't seen a zone defense since college (assuming they went.)Haven't we been saying this same stuff for the last 4 years. The problem is simple. NBA does not play by the same rules as FIBA and never will. Talent alone will not win anymore. The NBA players cannot adjust to the zone defense. Why, because they don't see it all year, they are not together as a team long enough to adjust ( that isn't going to change ). NBA players, no matter what they say, really don't want to play all summer after an 82 game regular season. In order to compete with the best teams in the world, they will have to play together longer in order to adjust to the rules and learn how to attack a real zone defense. If it is really important to win in international ball, the NBA will have to change their rules to the same as the FIBA. Otherwise, you are going to see this happen every 2 years.A few other countries have realized that they too can play this game.
They now have the confidence and the need win.
Deep down I think that the USA players realize this too which brings a little doubt into their minds when they play.
How much longer does the trend need to continue in order for another great American myth to be busted ?
The NBA is not the best basketball in the world.This just proves that the NBA game is vastly overrated and it explodes the myth that black athletes, particularly in basketball, are far superior to whites. Huge white guys may not have the athleticism of Shaq, but they can shoot, pass and play D. American sports in general is terrible at developing players -- look at tennis. When was the last time a great champion came out of our "system" there? Uh, never, it turns out we need Greek, Turkish, and Chinese immigrant parents to develop our talent, or strange black fathers like Richard Williams! In basketball, it's all become static because we depend on raw 'talent' at every level. You just recruit, and that includes Coach 'overrated" K!!! Europeans actually coach.I'm sick of reading that the U.S. was "upset" yet again...how many times do we have to lose over and over and over again before we stop telling ourselves it was an "upset"! Look I'll be the first to admit that nobody in the world can run and dunk with us, but although it's cliched, it's true the international game is night and day different than the NBA! Until the NBA tailors it's game after the international game, these so called "upsets" are going to keep happening over and over and over...I don't think that will change though because the international game wouldn't be as fan friendly in the NBA so we might as well get used to it...it wouldn't matter if we had Kobe or whoever on the team, we still would've lost, if not to Greece then to Argentina or Spain.1. convince the best players to play.
who didn't play
Garnett
S.Oneal
Duncan
Bryant
Mcgrady
Iverson
Carter
Kidd
Pierce
Bibby
To throw a team together and expect them to dominate, you need to have dominate players. Wade and James have been put on a pedastal, but are not ready to dominate, without the fluke fouls that get called for them in the NBA they look pretty average. They can't play defense, and never could, The NBA rules helped the succeed, and now they are being exposed.
The lineup should be as followed.
shaq
kobe
duncan
garnett
kidd
iverson
mcgrady
Lebron
Wade
carmelo
j.oneal
Bibby
take this team, no matter how old they are or USA will lose again.If you want to solve the problem, maybe you Americans first have to admit that nowadays we Europeans play better basketball. It's that easy. You have the best league but no longer the best players. If you cannot even cope with that thought, at least give some credit to the European (and South American) players instead of looking only at you belly button. We play! Go Team Spain!Yo learn o break a 2-3 zone when you first start playing basketbal..reverse the ball for a drive or open shot or send someone to high post..so the press needs to stop making that excuse..Greeks had a good team and americans didn't had enough nerve.
I think foul shooting was clear message about that. They shoot better percentages at NBA.
Mentally it was though place:
-different rules
-different country
-different way to play
-you can only lose
-others have learned that americans can also lose
They were prepared well and I guess coach did his best. However, one can only wonder how many NBA teams enter the game without knowing its opponent (and Greeks were European Champions!!)...
and whoosh, there is this group of mr Nobodys, which shoots over 60 % - your knees start to shake on foul line.Kobe Bryant,
At the end of the day whether you want to admit it or not, Kobe Bryant is the best, most clutch player in the NBA. LeBron, Anthony, Wade are good but come on, if you down by 5 points with 2 minutes to go, who would you rather have as your go to guy. K.B. Not only that, when the three aren't falling you need a go to guy with killer instinct that refuses to go down. Kobe plays defense and he did play in Italy as a kid. I'm not saying Kobe is the savior, but TEAM USA needs Kobe.i think it shows more than anything that the international game has caught up. because talent-wise, this team is by no means weaker than, say, the 2000 olympic champion (sydney). i mean, they had vin baker on the roster, for crying out loud!
maybe it's a good thing that they're gonna have to play the qualifier, because all this team needs is time to get used to each other. (and some shooters. and someone who kicks their asses for every missed freethrow!)1. Enforce the rules of basketball as they were intended. Things began to unravel in the late 80s with Detroit's Bad Boys. The NBA, instead of rebuking Detroit,embraced a style of play that announced to the world that if you couldn't win fairly, then it was OK to play rough and dirty, and break the rules. In addition, many of the other rules were allowed to be flaunted. This made its way down to the youngest levels, even to 7-9 year-olds. With the ignoring of the rules came the complete abandonment of fundamentals in exchange for the glorification of dunking. Gone is the appreciation for the well-executed backdoor play, the great pass, etc. Defense consists of holding, grabbing and pushing. Take a look at a film from the mid 70s or early 80s (1984 Lakers-Celtics Final). The game was much faster and it wasn't because they weren't playing defense. They moved their feet and weren't allowed to hold, push, and grab. It's all just a matter of enforcing the rules that are already there and returning the game to a thing of beauty in which teamwork and fundamentals are paramount to winning.
2. Eliminate the 3 point line. Although intended to energize the game and increase excitement, it has had the reverse affect. There is no longer any motivation for trying to get a closer shot resulting from movement without the ball. Three point shooting percentages are good enough that it is a higher percentage shot than taking a two pointer. However, play suffers while teams stand around and just dump it inside only to dump it back out for a 3-pointer.
3. Return the game to a thing of beauty: speed, grace, AND power; enforce the rules; teach and demand fundamentals. Combine those things with the natural abilities and talents of the US players and they will be unbeatable.The best way to win in basketball is to find team players. Please see recent Championship Teams (no Kobe or Iverson - they score 40 because they shoot 50 times) We seem to enjoy selecting the best one on one players who can dunk but not shoot, pass or rebound together. We won in the past because there was no one close to the Jordan's, Bird's and Johnson's of the world but as time has passed, while we have learned to dunk better, the world learned you can beat that ability by passing, shooting and working as a team. It might be me but I prefer seeing younger guys with pride over guys who are there for the show and the medal to add to some collection.Soultions? (1) First, don't panic. This is a young team that has only spent about a month together. In this modern era of international basketball, it is clear that a "team" needs to show up and not a group of individuals. This US group is on their way to doing this over time. (2) Second, better outside shooting! Period. And Kobe will bring a lot of this to the team which should relax some of the other shooters. Carmello had to much riding on his young shoulders against Greece this morning. (3) Third, continue the aggressive defense. If you watched the first quarter of the Greece game, the US played some of the best defense they have done in years. But, it seemed sporadic at best during the rest of the game. We all need to continue supporting this team and its coaching staff. They will get gold and the qualifications in Venezuela will only make them stronger as a group.First, congratulations to Greece from their eastern neighbours.
There's no magic formula. Rest of the world has simply caught up with USA. Any of the top 5 or 6 teams in the world today are capable of winning the gold at one time or another.
That said, team USA needs more international exposure, not just from olympics to FIBA. Practice makes perfect. Also, the mindset that US team is automatically superior to others needs to be broken. USA needs to recognize and respect other powerhouses of basketball and be willing to learn from them, if need be. A good start might be to stop calling NBA champions the "world champions".
Finally, NBA needs to de-commercialize the game and encourage fundamentals. It's painfully obvious even in NBA, that as the playoffs progress, defenses get tighter and tighter and flash and flair give way to teamwork. Basketball can be exciting without dozens of high flying dunks per game or two dozen commercial breaks with silly ads where individual players are made to be demi-gods. Easier said than done, however, given the commercial realities.It was obvious from past years that the U.S. needed to play defense. Yet Bowen was cut from the team.
They also knew going in that they needed players who could hit the 3 point shot. Why did they not have anyone like that on the team?
And the U.S. is still cocky and proud not giving other teams the respect they deserve. Pride comes before the fall.
And how can those guys get paid millions yet don't know how to shoot a foul shot? If it were my profession, I would be embarrassed.**MISSING THE POINT**
Everybody here is missing the point, we do not need Kobe or Shag or Gilbert -- Look at the proof people --->We do not have the fundamentals that Global teams have across the board!!!!!! It starts when they are kids, our coaching and belief system and work ethic is nothing like the children who are hooping in Europe and other countries... There is a reason they can shoot lights out and dribble the rock ---- We are being passed up and overlooked from day 1 -- and if you dont believe me ask anybody who has coached overseas or just go look up dirk nowitzki's childhood --- America --- home of the sloppy 1on1 game, the horrible and1 tour and head cases --- you know what--- i used to think we were the most powerful nation in the world -> which may be true, but it sure isnt when it comes to team sports..If the USA wants to win Gold Medals and dominate the landscape of Basketball in the world again, then we need to hire Bob Knight as the full time National Coach. His 1984 team was the best USA team built for international play excluding the (1992) team. He did not go with the All Superstar team when picking his team. Players were left out that team like John Stockton and Charles Barkley. Knight would have team USA playing as team with all 5 guys touching the ball on Offense, not like a AAU team where the 3 best players take turns jacking up shoots. They would also know how to guard the simplest play in basketball the pick and roll. Coach K is a great coach, but he is not a finisher. His teams are (3-4) in the National Championship game. In 1986 they should have beat Louisville, 1990 UNLV was clearly better, 1994 Arkansas had more talent, but he had Grant Hill, and 1999 UConn was nowhere near as talented as that Duke team. I am not knocking Coach K. he did a very good job. I just think that we need to get away from the AAU type style of play and back to a team oriented approach to basketball. Coach Knight is not afraid to cut Superstars or demand that players play defense. If you like him or not nobody can deny his ability to build a team and get the most out of it.i saw it in this tournament, and you can see it in the nba. a lot of american players lack three fundamentals of the game: pass, shot selection, defense.
besides, some of the most exciting players to watch in the nba are no longer american: ginobili, parker, nash, nowtizki, and even gasol. they have better overall skills than most of the players in us team roster.
yes, i miss michael, larry, isiah and magic. those were great players on both sides of the court...I think the past six years only shows what a joke the NBA has become and is in no way the correct way to play basketball. The owners keep changing the rules so that scores can regularly reach 120 pts and no one plays any kind of team defense. I refuse to watch any NBA games because of the laziness of most of the players to play two-way basketball, like most college teams do quite well.who's the dream team now??!?!? see yaaaaaaa!It is a systemic problem at all levels of USA basketball. Solutions: (1) kill AAU ball - completely; make the kids play in a high school team system; AAU ball is all about the individual, not the team; AAU ball is killing basketball in the USA; (2) roll back the clock: the time clock has led to the ineffective offenses we use now; it encourages sloppy, hurry up offenses; the kids no longer understand the fundamentals of the game; (3) change NBA rules to international rules; international rules encourage team play, and rewards shooters; NBA rules are all about the individual - and not the team; NBA teams would be forced to stop using the incipidly stupid pro style offense; (4) while we're rolling back the clock, institute the zone in the NBA; it encourages team play, strategy and shooting. Without these sytemic changes, we will NEVER win an international tournament again. The solution is not a pro coach or a coach with international experience; its not "better players"; it is not more time to practice; it is not a dedicated team. The solution relies on relearning the game at every level as it once was played - -with strategy, defense and good shooting.Play Big men who can run and shoot. The days of big banging inside in the international game are over. USA needs to play guys like Bosh much more. He can actually defend the pick and roll.This is yet another example of why it bugs me that whenever a team wins a sports championship in THE USA, they and the media call themselves WORLDS CHAMPIONS...this whole mentality makes us seem arrogant to the rest of the world, and it shows our ignorance of international sports. We need to have the mentality the next time we take the court in Beijing, that WE are UNDERDOGS, and we need to have the HUNGER that comes with that mentality. Face it, the only sport that we can even come close to claiming that we're WORLD CHAMPIONS is the NFL and that's only because we are just about the only country that even plays that sport on a full time basis other than Canada!Get players who understand basketball and not a bunch of hyper talented but fundamentally unsound players. The highlight reel has led to this. Players all want to be the next AND1 star and the future only looks worse. It is not just basketball. Players like Jerry Rice and Barry Sanders go the way of John Stockton and get replaced with great athletes that get beaten soundly by a good TEAM. Individualism makes great TV but not champions. Just ask the NE Patriots or Steelers.well, well, well.
I don't know what you need to do but certainly NBA champions can not consider itself anymore World champions; I firmly believe that even Miami or Detroit will be in deep s... against Greece, Spain, Italy, Serbia, Lithuania, Croatia, Argentina and so on!
You know what is creazy? take a look at the total population in Greece and in USA, they are small but they are so united and strong!!!!!!!
You lost in Basketball, in Baseball, in Soccer of course, in Tennis, fortunately you have american Footbal!!!
Go Italy
ciaoI don't think this is a time to panic. Remember, we came into this game, and this tournament, missing some of our best shooters, aka Redd, Morrison, Billups, and not to mention Kobe. We only lost by a few points, and looked great the rest of the tournament. Get Bowen back on the roster to help play some D, and get those shooters I mentioned back in there for '08 and we will have no trouble in Beijing. I for one, am not all that worried.I have an idea. Call a time out after the 10th successful pick and roll and give your guys a way to stop the pick in roll. Maybe a 3-2 zone defense. Did the US play zone at all? Mike got out coached. Nothing else to it. How many time are you going to let a team do the same play to you and not adjust. Plain and simple a coaching problem.It's time to wake up and smell the coffee; european basketball fundamentals and team play can beat one on one basketball any day...You can bring Kobe to the court, even MJ on his prime, but if he's playing by himself against 5 others the result is going to be the same...a US defeat. It's obvious that even though the individual skill level of US players is higher, international players, especially european understand the basic fundamentals of basketball: team play. They are instilled this fundamentals as soon as they pick up the game at a very young age. So, in order for the US to be able to compete at the international level, let's do what the rest of the world is already doing: playing basketball as it was created, as a team sport...and please stop with the Kobes, Gilberts....that's the problem more flash, less substance.Hi guys. I'm Greek but I have been watching international bball and NBA for quite a few years, way before the 1st Dream Team. I think you've missed the point entirely. It's not a question whether you could beat Greece. If we played tomorrow you probably would. But Greece is a 10million country whereas the US is 350mil. So the question is: Could the US play against a European all-star team? With GAsol, Nowitzski, Papaloukas, the Lithouanians and so on? NO. Why? My view is that the current crop of US players lack in the fundamentals. Ok they jump high, ok they are strong. But can the pass? Can they shoot? Do they know what team spirit is? Do they have a clue what "passing game" means? A big fat NO is the answer. I think that you guys watch old MJ tapes and all you see is the "air walk". But you miss his defense, his passing, his jump-shot. You don't pay attention to what made him really great. In other words you miss the point. NBA missed the point and now USA bball pays the price. Everybody can become stronger guys that's what gyms are for. But you have to learn the fundamentals first... Back to basics...The fallacy in McAllister's argument is the seemingly universal acceptance in the US that the NBA is the most talented professional league in the world. It may have been 10 years ago, but obviously isn't now. Otherwise, it's representatives wouldn't be taking such repeated beatings. Wake up Americans. There is plenty of talent outside of your borders. You may be the last to realize it.The team doesn't need Kobe Bryant, or any other particular guy. Changing the roster all the time is not the solution to the problem, it IS the problem. Until we have a team that actually has experience as a team, and is not just an all-star 'team', this is going to happen again and again. Our best guys are incredibly talented, but incredible talent does not beat incredible team chemistry when the other team has decent talent too. (Kobe fans note well: having Kobe didn't help the Lakers beat the Pistons, did it?)
You don't need to have players 'give up' an NBA career for international play, but they have to be willing to do both. For example, Dirk Nowitzki is willing and able to do that for Germany.
They had the right coach for the job, and most of the right tools, but none of the requisite experience in this suddenly much tougher world game.Although I am American I LOVE the fact that 5 white guys beat five black guys. I hate going to the playground and beeing abused by black playes becasue I am white.
This is a call to all white guys to stand up and take this NO MORE.know your opponents and learn to respect them!
i find it disrespectful and rude not to know your opponent's names. and it shows you haven't done your job. if you don't know their name, how can you know how they play?I think not shooting so many 3's is a start. Also having Chauncy and Kobe would have been nice. But back to someone else's point why wont KG and Ray Allen play. They would have been tremendous for us. We do need to send some of our pure shooters. At this point anyone that shoots 45% and over from 3 is a candidate. I want to see Tayshaun Prince go too. I find it funny that now the whole world thinks America cant play basketball. Anyone can lose a game its not like this is a season of this team sucking it up. They had 2 bad shooting nights, it can happen to anyone.1. Adopt FIBA rules for more than 4 weeks before the tournament
2. Basketball is a Team Game; you only have 5 guys trying to play as a team
3. At this level you need to play Defense, have 2 shooters, rest your team, and MAKE FREE THROWS!!! “FUNDAMENTALS” that what college kids that NBA Stars who skip college do not have!
4. Anyone can have a tape of a Team USA member and study his game, can you do that for a Euro or other player? (Remember Puerto Rico Kick your ASS on the last Olympics).
You need to know your opponent... Coach K didn't even know their names!!!
Bad management + no commitment + bad coaching at this level + no team work = China 2008
GOOD LUCK!
PD Pardon my EnglishIt just goes to show that the US game has lost its grasp of basic fundamental bball. The Int'l game has caught up and truely understands how to play winning basketball. The NBA has lost sight of this (with a few exceptions- Ie, Suns, Detroit). Obviously, one key player like Shaq can change the game in the NBA, but it does not apply in Int'l. When you get to the key games against Greece, Argentina, etc- teams that have played together for years and understand solid fundamentals, the US teams can not compete. Not because they lack the basic individual skills or athleticism- THEY LACK THE KNOWLEDGE of sound D & O schemes. They are trainined to defend isolation play, back door cuts, man to man stuff. Its truely a shame the NBA game has come to this. Hopefully with the success of international teams and some NBA clubs we will make the turn to playing a more exciting and fun to watch US game.To my understanding, US lost from a better team. US players may be fancier but they did not play as a team, neither did they prove to be more skillfull than their Greek oponents (if they had more skill they would not have worst statistics... right?). As for their "athletic skill" is it related with US' denial to undertake drug and doping tests?
A second thing you need to work on is character. Greece was 12 points behind but they would keep on playing their game. Soon after Americans were left behind, and all they did was to get upset. They lost their cool -and concentration - well before they had actually lost the game.
Michael, from celebrating Athens.
A second thing is character.Hey Mike,
I am only 31 , but have been watching the international games forever (growing up in Puerto Rico). The international game is so much different then the NBA. Three key areas I highlight: shooting, paint area, and referees. First shooting. It is the norm to see 6' 10" players shooting from all over the court. That is not the case in the NBA as players strictly depend on their athleticism to get things done (i.e penetrations, isolations, dunks, etc.) When the US squad was originally assembled, I thought players like Michael Redd were a shoe-in. Why?, because he is a 'shooter'. Players like Wade, Lebron and Anthony are unbelievable and marketable but they are not jump shooters (it is not their game). Greece certainly beat the US with shooters. Second, the inside game is diminished because of the trapezoid paint area. Players like Shaq, Duncan are limited to what they can do inside (basically the paint is another defender). Duncan was in foul trouble all the time in the Olympics and was completely frustrated by the game and the REFS. My third and last point. Referees don't give the NBA star players the benefit of the doubt on calls (like the NBA does). Yao Ming was fouled out of the game against Puerto Rico on a 'touchy' foul which lead to China's lost and almost elimination from the round of 16. That would not happen in the NBA, no way! The International game is different and I agree that the change should probably start with coaching (hire someone that has international experience), and please get some 'shooters' on this squad. MiguelHas it EVER occured to any of u that the NBA stinks and so do the players. They are all young, arrogant kids that have no clue how basketball should be played. They just run a million miles per hour and they think there good because they can jump and dunk. The days of Bird, Magic, Jordan are done !! Deal with it and be happy with a bronze if u care for the game at all anymore.How about adopt the international rules as NBA rules? Amazingly enough, these games were actually WATCHABLE, unlike most NBA games. The one-on-one isolation game doesn't work in the international game? Great! We've found our cure for the isolation-focused awfulness that is the current NBA!
And maybe, if players make the big bucks to play in international rules, they'll know how to play in them the next time around.Greetings to all. As a basketball player I can only talk about the hoops issues of the US team (as opposed to humility, concentration, acclimatisation, etc..) The superior athletically US players could not defend against the pick n roll (although they should, Karl and John shoed it to the rest of the world) and relied too much on one-on-one offensive plays (which the european teams not allow).I still believe that the present US team is far superior than the rest in the WC, however they lack the orchestrated play in defence and offence the European (I regard Argentina as a European team)teams have attained. Please note that Spanoulis, Diamantidis, Tsartsaris and Hadjivrettas play under coach Obradovic for years; the same applies for Fotsis and Papadopoulos who play under coach Ivkovic. These two coaches are masters in their trade, thus the good results of the Greek team. I am afraid that coach K has not yet achieved the same level of orchestrated play with his team.
Go Greece
Panos from AthensInternational rules dont make that much of a difference after you played a couple of games. It is the same when a Euro player goes to play in the NBA. You get used after a time. Do you think Larry Bird would have problems playing with this rules?
The real problem is that USA player are way overrated. All they know is to play 1 on 1 , and they do it very well. But they do not know how to play the game. Team USA looked so disorientated , they didnt know what to do when their 1 on 1 stop working.
Look at great teams like Greece, Spain or Argentina. They know how to read the game and react accordingly. They can play 1 on 1, 2 on 2, or run plays, and they will choose the better option.
They also know how to play a slow game and a fast game. They know when to pause the game and when to accelerate.
Their coach knows what the other teams do, and their weaknesses. They also even know their best players names!
Team USA should watch sunday´s final and learn how to play the game as a team, not a gang. If they are too proud for that, they should watch old games from Larry Birds Celtics or from the Michael JOrdans championship.
PS: In the civilized world when playing sports, after the game ends you greet the other team, like Battier did.Even you guy do not know how to beat a ZONE Defense... You have to throw the 3 to expand the perimeter and break the ZONE.
The hard part is making the 3!!
you do not have SHOOTERS!!!!To my understanding, US lost from a better team. US players may be fancier but they did not play as a team, neither did they prove to be more skillfull than their Greek oponents (if they had more skill they would not have worst statistics... right?). As for their "athletic skill" is it related with US' denial to undertake drug and doping tests?
A second thing you need to work on is character. Greece was 12 points behind but they would keep on playing their game. Soon after Americans were left behind, and all they did was to get upset. They lost their cool -and concentration - well before they had actually lost the game.
Michael, from celebrating Athens.
A second thing is character.my firm belief is that despite the fact that i am greek i always support the NBA game style...but the whole sense that i have from USA national teams is that the player4s do not play for the team and their nationality furthermore but they have a cooler stance in their game play!supposingly speeking is that the milion dollar contracts have made them iirigant to their chase on the succes...Simply speaking the game that i saw today was winned by the team that wanted most...good luck at next time1. Adopt FIBA rules for more than 4 weeks before the tournament
2. Basketball is a Team Game; you only have 5 guys trying to play as a team
3. At this level you need to play Defense, have 2 shooters, rest your team, and MAKE FREE THROWS!!! “FUNDAMENTALS” that what college kids that NBA Stars who skip college do not have!
4. Anyone can have a tape of a Team USA member and study his game, can you do that for a Euro or other player? (Remember Puerto Rico spank you on the last Olympics).
You need to know your opponent... Coach K didn't even know their names!!!
Bad management + no commitment + bad coaching at this level + no team work = China 2008
Humility won’t hurt!
GOOD LUCK!
PD Pardon my EnglishI think you should send the NBA champs to the Olympics or Worlds for that year. The '04 Pistons with Tim Duncan instead of Darko would have cut up the rest of the world that year. A cohesive team with role players in place would be the solution. An all-star team can't win at this level.USA Basketball doesn't need to send a team of superstars. NBA championship teams consist of 2-3 superstars and a group of role players. The same formula should work at the international level.The international game is about team play and you need a fairly dominant big man. It is not a 1 on 1 game. The US will need to get players that can defend first and that are physical. Amare Stoudemire
is good on the offensive end and can run, but Greece was to dominate insde.Mike,
What do you mean by "On the surface, there seems to be no logical reason why a team like Greece -- which may be the Euro champions but doesn't have a current NBA player on its roster"?
Sorry, but that's crap!
Will you Americans ever learn your lesson? And I am not referring only to basketballus team has no talent, face it. they only have athetcism, but they don't know how to play the game, as individuals or as a team.
the only reason they look better in the nba is because the nba is set up as entertainment, every year rules re adjusted to make it easy for talentless players like LeBron, Iverson, whoever to score at ease. they are allowed to take as many steps as the like, they are allowed to carry the ball, no hand checking, everything is done to make sure they have a clear path to the basket, and if that doesn't work, there are always refs to call a foul and bail them out.
The when they get to play a real game they are lost, because they do get called for traveling, other teams actually do play defense, and there are no made up fouls called to bail them out.
Those are the facts. USA athleticism yes, basketball talent, absolutely none to be found in this generation.US widespread arrogance has been defeated! Long live Europe!We claim that the reason we suck in Soccer (Football) is because our best athletes play Basketball, American Football and Baseball. What can be said when our best athlete's playing "our" game loose to Europeans that we would consider less athletic than their countries soccer counterparts...I think that the NBA champions should have to play in the world championship/Olympic games. It should be looked at like the "world heavyweight champion" in boxing. At least the team would be a team and not a bunch of guys thrown together a month in advance who never played with each other. Remember, the international teams have played with each other for years.I think your problem is that is diferent to play in NBA that to play in World Champion , olympics games, etc....In the FIBA World the priority is the team. In NBA the priority is the "star" player.
I think that all the american players must play four years in University again.
Good luck for the bronze game
Agus,
Madrid - SpainThere are some people complaining about the FIBA rules. But some years ago when the used to win everything, They didn't complaint at all. What you should do is to learn to play together. There are too many stars in the USA team. I am from Spain and this year our team has a lot of NBA players. But they are playing together as a team, not as NBA stars. Well I'm happy because my team is in the final and will play againts Greece instead of USA.
Maybe in four years...This is payback for the NBA champions being called the 'world champions', everybody else just laughs at you.
Peter, LondonI have an Idea, lets ( USA ) boycott the FIBA games. Force them to change to the NBA rules, then we will win again..... simple. If you can't win by actually playing team basketball, running basic offense, making free throws, and playing team defense, then just change the rules to the same as the NBA. ( where quicker,stronger,and faster players who can't play real basketball ). By the way, stop calling it " international basketball", It should be called basketball, the international players play "basketball", we play NBA basketball ( created to allow fan friendly flash and dunks)Well as a Greek who has lived in the states for 10 years and is a great fun of NBA-NCAA basketball let me give you another dimension: It is called Business intelligence! USA did not have that, and it blows my mind why that happened. Let me explain: For days now i was reading about China because of Yao, France, because of Parker and Germany because of Dirk. Nobody, nobody even mentioned Greece, the 2005 European Champions because it has no current NBA players. But, China and Germany only have a great NBA player and 11 others who would be picked last in pick-up games and would not even make it on the bench of great european teams. However, the USA press and team kept talking about those teams like the were the teams to beat. Well Greece beat China by 30 points and Germany by 40 in a friendly game, and has not lost to France in 23 years. Just because a team does not have an NBA player does not mean anything. Teams have players in the NBA that are bench-warmers, when european team have players that excel in the European championships and country championships every year. Plus, many Greek players do not want to make the trip there, and are happy to make millions playing in their home country. Spanoulis got a closed 3-year deal by houston, and halpf of the team was selected by NBA teams in the past. Yet, up until we made it to the semis Greece was not considered a threat. I do think though that a team with Shaq, Kobe, KG, and others who did not play would still win the gold. Sending the third best team wdoes not cut it anymore.HERE'S AN IDEA...
And I'm dead serious:
Send the reigning NBA champion. To hell with it. The NBA (and all teams in it) agree to send whoever wins the championship to the Olympics, the World Games, the FIBA games or whatever. You want cohesion? We got cohesion. You want stars? Name an NBA team that won the finals that DIDN'T have stars. The owners will complain, but they need to step up and say: "You know what? This is good for America."Coach K is doing a good job, but his philosophy was defense. Giving up 101 points and allowing 66% field goal percentage to the Greeks wasn't really following the philosophy...maybe should have kept Bruce Bowen.
Here is my solution: Get as many players who have played in the college game where fundamentals ARE taught. We need more players like Kirk Hinrich, Dwayne Wade, and Shane Battier who have played in college for 3+ years and have seen a Zone Defense.
Of course, having a person who can actually hit a 3 pointer when it matters will help (Michael Redd) and a Big Man who will draw a double team (Tim Duncan) and kick it out to a shooter.
Lastly, we need players who can MAKE FREE THROWS! Watching the game against Greece was like watching that KU-Syracuse Championship game in 2003 when KU went 12-30 at the Free Throw line...very painful.
Don't worry USA fans, this team WILL WIN the 2008 gold medal because it is a team game. This will be a better team by Beijing.The truth is in the results. The NBA is really not that good anymore. Money doesn't change that.why is this a problem? so the international teams have come up with a way to win as a team. the US program was put into effect this year, they dont win their first tournament, and now everyone is dissing it. these international teams play together for years, and have built teamwork. i think this US team, if kept intact, will absolutely demolish the olympics if everyone just finds their role. *side note*: they should try sending the winner of the NCAA to these international tournaments.Bench Lebron James. He is a huge defensive liability, turns the ball over more than he assists his teammates, and he still cannot shoot from outside. The fact is, that if Lebron did not entire the NBA with all the hype as the "King" he would still be a role player. He's John Wallace with hundreds of millions of dollars.Let's face it, NBA players don't care enough about the world championships to win it. Greece wanted it more, period.
People are being silly saying we should just send the NBA champion or the eastern conference champion. How likely is it that you will be able to get them all to come? This season Shaq would not have played. Do you seriously think the Heat would win without Shaq? Even with Shaq I don't think they would win. NBA players don't know how to defend the pick and roll, it is as simple as that. Last olympics I thought we learned that lesson but Coach K didn't address it or the players didn't pick it up.
Truly a pathetic showing. I could almost accept a gold medal game loss to Spain or Argentina, but a loss to Greece?The bottom line is that Greece shot an amazing 65% from the field! I don't care who you are or how great your team is - you cannot beat a team that shoots 65% from the floor. There's just no way - that's insane!
A lot of people are here saying that we didn't win because we don't have this or we lack that. Greece is just a stellar team. We also have a stellar team - we just fell short this time. We have nothing to be ashamed of.
One last note: The fact that we were undefeated up to that point seems to be a very strong indication that our team, as it is, can do very well in international competition.Greetings from a Greek in the UK.
Although NBA is the best league worldwide, Greece proved once more today in the most emphatic way that you do not need to jump 2ft in the air and make nasty dunks to become the best. Basketball is a team sport and it's played by 15 people, the players on the court, the one's on the bench and, of course, the coaching team. USA needs to work on that, becoming a team!
Also, where was Shaq, Kobe, Carter, AI, Wallace, T Mac?
P.S: It is the virtue of the defeated, that gives value to the victor.Canada almost lost to the Soviet Union in hockey in 1972. That led to a reevaluation of what fundamentals were taught and how did they teach them. Subsequently, Canada has continued to perform well in an increasingly competetive world. The US would do well to stop being so arrogant and maybe reexamine why our wonderfully athletic players fail at some fundamentals - like free throws!!!Either play World rules at home -- or stay at home. We're no longer good enough to make the transition from our rules to the world's. We are hesitant, a step behind, unsure. The other good teams are nothing but sure. Unnatural for us, the court and the rules are second nature for them. Think how our hurdlers and relay runners would do in world meets if we had kept yards at home but ran in meters abroad. In track we joined them. We should in basketball.
Maybe start with world rules for college ball. See how that goes. Then the NBA, before it becomes a baketball backwater. Or get the world to adopt our rules -- as likely as getting them to drop the metric system.You can't blame this re-occuring nightmare on just one think. Look at the facts. European players have better shooting averages. Greece also has the second best league in the world. Second only to the US. The US needs to break out of its isolation and start to play teams outside the US. Our players are already going in with a disadvantage because they haven't ever seen 90% of these guys. Learning who they are the night before a semi-final is insane. Another point I need to make is where are all our all-stars. Maybe they do something for the country that gave them all their millions. Sorry a little harsh but trueWhy isn't Michael Redd on this team?The first problem, they are NBA stars in different team, the international teams are player who had played together so many years. Second the international team play fundamentals, the USA team play individually,third most of the player in this international tournament are ready playing in NBA and other stars of those team are already drafted to play in NBA, so that means that they are good player, fourth we must get an assistant coach who knows very well how to play international and how to play again european teams. fifht we are not the dream team, there is only one dream team the first one, in that year we get superstars, now we have star and last all the international teams are sending there best juvenile player to play in NCAA, to learn better the american game. Hope we can do something inmediately to avoid another defeat at olimpics games. ThanksReturn the NBA to real basketball and not an offshoot of "Wild World of Wrestling". Professional basketball has become a form of theatrics and when it comes time to play a real team, that won't cut it. I think the Greeks (a country of 11 million people) made that abundantly clear.also, about the idea of putting the nba champs into these tournaments is just ridiculous. what if the spurs win? take away ginobli and parker. mavs? nowitzki is gone. then you say to fill these players spots with other allstars. well that takes away from the whole team idea.These are my 2 cents:
1) Coach K has failed as a coach. His offense has been one of the poorest in the tournament. It does not show that much because of the individual talent of the players. What the hell was all that one on one? Could not coak K design plays in which more than one player was involved? I was remebreing the 84 Games. Coach Knight made a superb job. What a veautiful ball movement displayed when oponents played zone defense. Basketball IQ wa much higher then and guys could dunk too (Jordan, Tisdale, Alvin Robertson, Ewing).
2) The scouting of the US team has been awful. Not the same with the Greek team.
3) Pick and roll defense was non existant. The US team was being killed by a team with a lot less athlethism but who just knew the game better.
4) Attitude. Be more humble. Do not find excuses saying Fiba rules are different.
5) US basketball players are not that sound on fundamentals nowadays. The real Dream Team featured players who understood the game who knew what team playing was, who could perfectly read what the oponent was doing. Bird, Magic or Stockton might not jump too much, but they played a zillion times better baskatball than this generation of players.
There are more things but this is enough for now.The first problem, they are NBA stars in different team, the international teams are player who had played together so many years. Second the international team play fundamentals, the USA team play individually,third most of the player in this international tournament are ready playing in NBA and other stars of those team are already drafted to play in NBA, so that means that they are good player, fourth we must get an assistant coach who knows very well how to play international and how to play again european teams. fifht we are not the dream team, there is only one dream team the first one, in that year we get superstars, now we have star and last all the international teams are sending there best juvenile player to play in NCAA, to learn better the american game. Hope we can do something inmediately to avoid another defeat at olimpics games. ThanksOk guys. Love the comments... everyone hindsights seems to make sense. I think that if team USa had to play Greece again, they would win. You all have a point in saying the other international teams are moe in sync. But with one or to adjustments after today, hypotheticaly, Team USA would win about 98% of the time they'd meet greece.Where are the Washington Wizards players? Jamison shoots 40% from behind the arc, clearly our best 3-point shooting forward on the team. And he plays the least of any player on the team??? Similarly, Gilbert Arenas is a 3-point machine, a pure shooter, and Coach K doesn't embrace his offensive skills. Instead, he asks Gilbert to transform himself into a more "defensive-minded" player. ? Please, from someone who watched the Cavs in the playoffs last year, Lebron simply cannot guard the pick and roll. Every single time, someone gets by him. I agree w/ all prior posts. Assemble some shooters, but please, also play the ones you have!I think the Greek team totally deserved this win. They had excellent coaching, and they showed outstanding team spirit, an area on which perhaps the US lacks. They showed they can face anyone.
Congrats to coach K and Anthony though, for admitting their defeat with good sportmanship and not by whining.
Undoubtfully, they had a very good team,with many stars, that's why it is a great accomplishment from the Greek side. They won every other team so far. So it's not that true to make excuses like ''we didnt do our best, we didnt send the best guys out there''etc.
The American team needs to learn more about international basketball, instead of focusing only to the NBA. They should know and repsect their opponents.
Congrats Greece, you deserve the Gold Medal!!Get over it Americans. You have good athletes, not good basketball players... Not to talk about real teams
Let me tell you something also, I think that any champion from any top European league will give a good run for its money to the NBA-so-called-world-championsthe team is still growing as a unit, nothing is built over night, I guess it would have been better to meet stiifer comp in the first round so that this would not have been as much a shock. but they are better than 04 team and with time the team seems to have the guns to take over, lest we forget Kobe is not playing yet so that will be something to look out for too.Having the best athletes in the world does not translate into the best basketball players. Until the U.S. starts teaching the basics to its young superstars they will never win on the international level.It is simple. You don't need a point guard to play against the zone. You need shooters.Who were our shooters on this team? Carmello and Johnson. That's it. We need to have more shooters and better on the ball defenders to shout down their best shooter. Look at the Dream Team. Great shooters.The failure to Gold Medal extends way beyond this team and its coaches, who really made a good effort (but didn't shoot well), and may have a good future with a couple of additions. The problem is that the USA no longer plays the best basketball. Best pool of athletes? Of course. But the NBA, with its star system (isolation plays)and odd defensive regulations is simply a training ground for a bad style of basketball. The top international players have been better shooters for a couple of decades, they're better team players, and they're catching up quickly on other skills. The wide international lane looks wierd, but helps create a better (and more entertaining) game that would push our big men to improve. Why learn to shoot free throws (or shoot at all) when the big jam is such an ego boost and a commercial success?Deal lads,
NBA died after players like Jordan, Pippen and Barckley quit the game. Jordan is the best player ever because he was a real leader and coach in the court. I am afraid but i have to say that you lost all your ideals since Michael stoped playing.
Panos KatsourasI dont agree with what most people here have said! The problem isn't really with the team or the coach or how long they had to practice. The team is good and skill-wise the best in that whole tournament. It's just that even though they really tried this time to win, they dont have a game plan like the other teams do. Winning in the NBA is not the same as international tournament. They have to have certain plays so that they can use them. Greece kept on going back to the pick and roll so effectively it didn't even matter that the US roster was on the court. Their shooting percentage was way too high to be allowed by any team in a game like this. The Americans on the other hand had shooting percentages that dont even represent NBA level because of the unorganized play. So the Americans got to do the same thing, they have to have their own plays and keep doing them as much as the other defense allows them to. Everyone knows their superiority in actual talent but that only comes in the dying minutes when games are close and great players decide to take over and win it. For the rest of the game if team USA does not have a game plan like the Europeans then they'll never win.The main reason why the US lost is the same reason as previous tournaments: You cannot throw a team together a month or two before the tournament and expect them to beat the very best foreign teams. What the US should do is exactly what they are planning to do, keep this group together for another 2 years and let them develop team chemistry. Despite the disappointing finish, this team has laid the proper groundwork for future tournaments.I believe that the main problem of the american team was that it hadn't any greeks.Try using some Greeks. :-) We've seen this happening 2 months before. Who would believe that Brazil wouldn't be at the World Football Championship finals. So there are no superpowers in sports.you are the UNITED STATES: drop the "Team USA" marketing nomenclature for a start and instill some humility and pride in pulling on your great country's jersey.
also, play more friendlies with int'l rules against others, esp. in your own hemisphere. perhaps around the all-star game if there is still that sort of thing. a full-throated u.s. crowd would make a big difference (unlike the last time FIBA world championships were held in the u.s.).CH commented earlier :
"Truly a pathetic showing. I could almost accept a gold medal game loss to Spain or Argentina, but a loss to Greece?"
There's no stronger proof of the level of arrogance in the us. You are talking of Greece, the current european champions...at the very same tournament where Spain ended 4th!Just a few precisions about things I read everywhere, most of the time written by journalists:
- There isn't a single national team in the world that plays together all the time. Using this as an excuse is misinformation. Players are often spread everywhere and gather for international events only, where they participate in a camp a month or so before, just like the US did.
- The so-called international rules are the official rules of basketball. The NBA rules are not the rules of basketball. What if the Chinese complain that referees are not calling the game the way it's played in China?
- You can't say Americans are the best basketball players if they can't shoot the 3 or, even more important, free throws. This game is all about putting the ball in the basket. If you can't do that, you cannot say you are the best, even though you can outrun and outjump everyone.
- Be humble. Don't say you are going to win. And respect other teams. All Greek players are white and no one plays in the NBA, so it looks like no one gives them a chance...
- Bringing Kobe and others won't help unless the team is willing to play defense (oddly enough most Americans think Europeans suck at defense, I think it's a funny point of view ;-)) and players can shoot the open shot instead of dribbling around, driving to the hoop and losing the ball.
Good luck for the future.The bottom line problem is simple. Come November, if you go to an average sports bar in the US and ask who the Basketball World Champions are, 99% of the people will say the Miami Heat, and that would be even if the US had won. We don't care, so is it any surprise that they throw together teams just before competitions, and players play on the team just long enough to get the sports equivalent of a Merit badge, so there's no continuity? Toss in coaches who seem to always pick defense over offense, and opponents who can shoot and have players who've played for years together on the national team, and you get games like today.The only solution is to stop thinking that all the opponents are more inferior. Just remember that the NBA roaster take players from all over the world. There are good players everywhere, even in "little" Greece.No need to overreact. We did pretty well considering that we were confused by that new-fangled 'pick and roll' thing and that we don't know any set offenses. Defend the pick-and-roll, try to run it sometimes on offense, and perhaps respect your opponent enough to bother scouting their players and we'll be fine. Wouldn't hurt to drop the defensively inept (like Bron Bron) and bring in two more top-flight shooters (proven NBA guys - think Allen and Redd not Morrison and Reddick). We hear it and see it demonstrated all the time: 'Defense wins championships'. When will we learn? As for adopting international rules, no. The three point shot is too easy and the trapezoid lane is goofy. It'd be nice to see some three or five game series in these international championships rather than one and done. Also, since we don't play the same flavor of basketball as the rest of the world in the NBA, there's nothing wrong with calling the NBA champ the world champ and the international champ the world champ. It's like the NFL, we're the only ones who play it, so we can call the champion whatever we want.The US lost because the Greeks were better. Forget the excuses and explanations. I heard them all in defense of the American Ryder Cup team until we finally realized that European golfers were as good or better than the Americans.
The US players today are not as good as those that were on the Dream Team. The quality of play in the NBA may be as high, but the quality of play by American players is not. This fact is hidden in the massive hype that surrounds the sport and the $billions that depend on its success.I've spent a while reading all your opinions, and very few of them consider that Greece was simply better this morning. It is not a matter of how different nba rules or international rules are. Look, Basketball is a team game and thats all. Old Celtics and Lakers played that way... We saw this morning a very strong team, Greece, playing against a group of profesional players without motivation... AND GAMES NEED TO BE PLAYED TO BE WON...
Not only Greece but also Spain and Argentina would have beat the States. Take careMaybe more people know now, that your NBA may be the best circus in the World, but not the best BASKETBALL league !Hello!!! How many US team members are champs or at least finalists? Greeks are all 12 in either a championship team or in a challenging team. 11 out of 12 were last years Euro Champs. They are used to stiff international competition. Their mentality is forged in wins and they never say die. See Last year's Euro semi against France and this year's matches in group phazeCoach K is used to the overrated chants now he can hear them in Greek. No refs to save him here.When we as a country start sending our best players to these tournaments then we will win them. No Kobe, No Kevin Garnet, no Ray Allen, No Shaq, no Tashaun prince. I don't care what you say international or not no other country has a player that can compete against Shaq, and garnetts game is made for international play. If this team had our best players and best shooters we would cream them. Yes Greece got hot but all along this was just the start of a process that is supposed to bring home a gold medal in the olympics. I am confident that with a couple of the missing players added to the team, garnet,kobe,billups Coach K. will win the gold medalWell, the USA team did not have the heroirm that our Greek guys did... We wanted more than you to go to the finals and get the Gold...
And also I think our couch Panagiotis Giannakis did better job than yours... it was amazing how we turned a -12 to +14 lead...
GregI think TEAM USA should continue to send NBA players. I think the Final four teams in the NBA Playoffs should play after the Championship to play for TEAM USA. The problem is that they may not feel compelled to play for Team USA and that's disappointing. But the benefit would be that this team would have more cohesiveness since they played all season together. In all honesty...the USA players are paid millions and the greeks were "nobodys" in their eyes. They should be worried because they're trade is becoming mastered by others! The price goes down....
LL in Chicago
92 Dream Team...the greatest!Here is the 12 man roster for the 08 olympics:
Chauncey Billups, Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, Lebron James, Shane Battier, Elton Brand, Michael Redd, Kyle Korver, Kirk Hinrich, Dwight Howard,Lamar Odom and Chris Paul, if he can finally find some offense.
Lebron, Odom and Battier would have to play some 4 since they dont have Shaq, Duncan or KG. With Billups, Bryant, Hinrich and Paul, you have good defenders, so that allows you to have korver and redd on the floor to spread out the defense. We need shooter and guys who will just play hard for 40 minutes.Let's check the GLOBAL CHAMPS LIST:
American Football:
World Champion: Not awarded
No Champ for a sport that nears masturbation status whn spoken off in a World perspective...the U.S. is left to play with itself.
Association Football (some call it soccer):
World Champion: Italy---lose to 9 man U.S. 2-1 as DaMarcus's goal was legit sports fans, but Yanks hater ref over rules to leave the U.S.A. with a tie against eventual World Champions. Italy then go on to take care of Ze Germans and the Frogs to claim the World Cup. Rightful World Champions...check.
Canadian Football:
World Champion: Not awarded
You would think that at least the U.S.A. and Canada would play a once every 4 years one off Final for gridiron braggin' rights. The fact that this doesn't happen is odd.
Baseball:
World Champion: Japan---lose twice in the World Cup of Baseball yet somehow manage to make it to the Final. Team U.S.A. and its fans are left to watch the 'Nips celebrate the title on U.S. soil. Rightful World Champions....perhaps...but Baseball needs to rethink it's format as a two time loser (to Korea) reaches the Grand Final.
Basketball:
World Champion: TBD---U.S.A. again loses in "our" sport. Like losing in Baseball...it is flat out embarassing. Reasons why listed above.
Rightful World Champions will be decided from a proper tournament in a one off Grand Final. Congrats Greece on making it there.
Hockey:
World Champion: Sweden---U.S.A. and Canada don't even make it to the Grand Final. Put's the U.S. Baseball and Soccer failures into a better perspective. Finland is beaten by Sweden on the day and Sweden are correct World Champions.
Rugby Football:
World Champion: England. Next Summer will be Rugby Union Football World Cup and in this version of football, the title is wide open. Aussies are solid, the All-Blacks from New Zealand are soild, England will be defending on Euro soil. South Africa will have its say.
The constants here is that our nation sends a quality sqaud to these World Cups of "enter sport here" but we are not winning. Excuses are lame, goals, trys and runs are what matters. The one thing I get out of International ball is that the name on the front of the jersey is a hellava lot more important than the name on the back! It's put up or shut up sports fans. Go U.S.A.!!!WCOB does not equal NBA. To the person who said that Greece would prevail against the Heat in the NBA is wrong. So many games in the NBA can go either way based on the officiating; the same goes for the 'World' rules of basketball. Rules were changed to promote shooting and denounce inside physical play - anti big americans.
It is also not surprising tha a team that has been together for several years plays so well. Everyone on team USA was a rookie in terms of time played together. They learned a new system, assigned position, and crafted a new defense/offense. To do as well as they did against veteran teams just goes to show that the skill and athletisism of the US can still compensate for their lack of cohesion.
USA basketball is still dominant.Will this affect the reputation of the NBA itself? I mean these guys are getting paid millions because they are the best players in the world.Gold in 2008? Perhaps. But even so, the main issues will still remain unsolved. 2 years is more than enough time to build the necessary team chemistry, but what about the rest?
You’ve got more foreign players in the NBA than ever, just look at the yearly drafts. And why? Simply because the typical american player that comes out of college (or high school) lacks fundamentals: he can’t pass and he can’t shoot, and he sure can't hit those free throws. Sure, he’s an athletic dunker, but that won’t do much against a cohesive international team that has chemistry and knows how to defend the zone.
Apart from lackluster outside shooting, the US has a big problem (ok, a tall problem, let’s call it that way): in 92 there were Patrick Ewing and David Robinson, in 94 you had Alonzo Mourning and Shaq, in 96 Robinson, Olajuwon and Shaq. And now? Bosh and Howard aren’t true centers and Brad Miller... well, he’s just not enough.
I say pick guys that already have chemistry... pick 4 or 5 guys from the Pistons, and do the same with other teams that have a starting 5 of american players. Then you’ve got rotations of guys who know how to play together.
João - Portugal (that's in Europe, duh!)Simplicity is the key. The rest of the international world has figured it out. Team basketball is imparative if the USA is going to dominate the world again. Too many ill advised shots. There is more than one way to defend the pick and role. One, is to chase the ballhandlwe the other is to switch. Keep it simple and USA basketball will prevail."Asking NBA players to go win in the international game is like asking NFL players to go win a rugby tournament. Would they be good? Probably. would it be interesting to watch? Yes. Would they win? No. Why? ",
Whomever wrote this obviously does NOT understand a thing about rugby. Those are two TOTALLY different sports just like English is different from Chinese Mandarin. NBA/FIBA is more like American English and British English.
Your NFLers could NOT play rugby at ALL. They would not understand a SINGLE RULE. I wonder how they would fair without pads, or no timeouts - 40 minutues each HALF, or scrumming, back passing, PLAYING AS A TEAM of 15 men doing both attacking and defending ... not 5 teams of 11.
On the other hand basketball is basketball. The U.S has WON before in FIBA tourneys. Were the rules suddenly changed to hinder the U.S ? That's a big NO! They could have won here today too. BUT they are just NOT that good.
Enough with ALL the excuses. The world has caught up and they are BETTER !!!Why didn't coach K pick the best players instead of all the superstars?Why did he keep Brad Miller but let a defender like Shawn Marion go, where is kg, jason kidd, vince cater, allen iverson(he is suppose to be a ball hog?),paul Pierce. those are veteran players with that knowledge of the game.When is USA going to realize that is not the best in basketball as a GAME of 5?? you still behave vain thinking you are the kings of the world, even if Europeans and Argentinians show you are wrong. When you start to respect others (was any american player able to name one or two greek players?) maybe you will win. NBA champions are world champions? you still keep on saying that? please, don't joke.There are many US players earning there money in European leagues. They have the experience in international rules, they know the opponents and would be a true asset to the US team if mixed with the best of the NBA.i wonder if you know where greece over planet earth is...how to win a game when you are so selfish and understimate the opponents abilities...take panagiotis giannakis in an nba team to indulge the winner spirit and learn how the european basketball is being played..
greek islands are perfect for vacation...Player and ball movement only occurs in short spurts and generally has been successful for the US. One on One basketball results in players just standing around and that continues to hurt us. The whole idea of Team USA's depth is to tire the opponent by creating constent presure on the defensive end as well as be active on the offensive end. Players are only averaging around 20 minutes a game so there is no excuse to not have constant movement on offense.
USA has alot to prove as the World, through the team concept, has surpassed us in basketball. As Americans, we are so obsesed with the so-called "Star", that it has over shadowed the team concept. The NBA as a whole has glorified the player more than the idea of Team and that is where we have lost our edge. As the saying goes, "There is strength in numbers". As long as the US plays 1 on 5 basketball, they will continue to loose as the numbers would dictate, we are at a significant disadvantage.First of all, why didn't Coach K put Dwight Howard in to defend against drives in the second half. Howard could have have helped to contain "Baby Shaq" and also contribute on offense and rebounds. Why did Howard only play like 3 minutes in the second half. Very dumb decision by coach K.
Second, why doesn't Team USA run high pick and rolls too, like using James/Howard or James/Bosh?
Third, the U.S. should run more give and goes, and post up more, and add and inside post-up and kick it outside game plan to break down zone plays by the Greeks.
Fourth, the U.S. simply had too little time to prepare for this summer.
Fifth, the Bible says pride comes before a fall. Coach K didn't even know the Greek players' names!
Who was in charge of scouting for the U.S.??
Sixth, the U.S. has got to learn how to attach the zone better.
Seventh, force Shaq, Ben Wallace, Garnett, Duncan and a shot blocker like Mourning to be on the team, doesn't matter how old Mourning is. Team USA needs him!
Eight, always have a couple of big name to defend the paint area and rebound!
Ninth, practice shooting outside shots starting now. and Pray to God for wisdom on how to win internationally.The US basketball team misused garbage time against lesser opponents. While watching previous games in which the US team blew away the competition they reverted back to the same sloppy show-boating team that has underachieved in the last three international tournaments. The team hasn't been together nearly as long as most of the good international teams and should have used the "garbage time" as an extra practice session.Get Steve Nash an American passport and make Mike D'Antoni the coach. D'Antoni spent a lot of time in Euope and knows the game they play there.
For the rest I agree with some of the other comments: still too many stars. Even with this group there was rumbling going on about PT. And where were all the 3 point shooters this team was supposed to have?
If the US was complaining about lack of size on the floor as they were after the Greece game, then why where Brad Miller and Chirs Bosh not on the floor more. Maybe some other bigs should have been selected for the squad.
It is funny how time and time again it is shown that college coaches fail in the NBA, so now this team is made up of NBA players and coached by a college coach, am I the only one who sees a connection to failure here?To all of you stating that if the US hadd Kobe, Michael Redd etc, you are missing the point. The US has tones of more talent than any other team playing already. The reason the US did not win, is that they do not know how to play together as a team as of yet. As a result, that aspect of their game is getting exposed when they come across a team that has already developed the cohension necessary to win. ie Greece, Spain and Argentina.Hi, I'm a spanish journalist and NBA fan and this is my solution: send a good team with no playoffs in the season (Celtics, Sixers, Sonics) and no international stars. Simply. USA team seems like an all-star team with no connection or motivation. Mr. Stern, watch out: How more humilliations do you want?
AND GO FOR GOLD, GASOL, CALDERON, GARBAJOSA AND SERGIO. YOU'RE THE BEST. AND COACH PEPU, OF COURSE. ARRIBA ESTUDIANTES.This only proves that The Greeks, although inferior athletes, Showed to the world that you cannot buy heart, guts, love of your country and team-mates.... They played using their skill, smarts, and heart, where as the US played using only their individual skills.
That is why sports are always unpredictable, and arrogance/ignorance, needs to be removed from the mindsets of players... Thanks to Greece for teaching the world what true spirit of teamwork and love of Country once again...The game can be summarized in one play:
Lebron drives in the lane and slam dunks the ball – and he celebrates his achievement. Unfortunately US was down 6 points and they had at best two possessions left.
A team of 10 (9 since Zissis was out after clobbered by the Brazilian NBA palyer) beat an assortment of 10 individuals.
Case closed.Change the NBA rules to international rules. Move the 3 point line, change the lane, and allow a real zone. That would make the transition to the worlds or Olympics easier for any group of playes. I know this will never happen.The US needs to stop thinking that they can teach the world that they have it all figured out and the international world is just wrong. I was always taught that the youngest learns for the oldest. The NBA has become nothing more than a money machine, just like everything else. The NBA needs to start looking at the international world and start learning. This was a lesson they should have picked up 2004 Athens Olympics. The answer is eazzzzzy here. Stop been so arrogant and start accepting that the rest of the world knows more than you, and grow-up a little in the process.Hello from Greece,
In my opinion what the US have to do is to build a "NATIONAL TEAM".
A Team where players LOVE to play in order to represent their country. If you play for your country and not for your self you forget about your ego (and these NBAers have Very Big Egos).
About Greek Team: 12 players (11 after Zisis no.6 got injured).
If you followed their games they all played for each other with passion and Heart.
Greek Team could have in their ranks NBAer Jake Tsakalidis, however Coach Yannis Yannakis rejected him in order not to mess up with the "team-spirit".
This Greek team is one and a half years old. Last year they won the European Championship mostly due to their determination than their skills.
Greek Team Captain is Kakiouzis who was part of the Greek Team 1998 U-21 World Champions. These were players that shouldnt be underestimated. Greek Coach is a Legend in Europe both as a player and a as Coach.
USA Team: They have the Best Players in the world but they lack team spirit, a Team must have both its A-Class Players but also needs players to do the dirty job. Greece won because they had more confidence in their game. USA lost their confidence after they lost the lead and were forced to "hunt the score". You have to build a team with more confidence which can find the guts to comeback againts a more determined opponent.
See you in Peijing 2008.Wade and Lebron were exposed as medicre players. Take away all the calls that they get in the NBA and they are average.
This team needed some like Kobe Bryant to rely on in the final 3 minutes. They also need an enforcer. They kept getting bullied by Baby Shaq and didnt do anything about it. The Dream Team had Charles Barkley to intimidate. We need someone like Ron Artest. Yest I said it. Ron Artest as our enforcer.Maybe the answer is to get the rest of the world to change the rules to AND1 streetball? We would win for sure. We would have the coolest shoes, the sickest throw-downs, and the most bling-bling!! We would be the best at palming the ball and bouncing it off the other teams heads! We would be bad!Hi, I'm a Spanish basketball fan and I'm happy my team reached the final. And they reached it showing something you guys lacked: team spirit and a WILL TO WIN.
First of all basketball is a TEAM SPORT. This is not gymnastics or a circus. Showing off does not win games. The USA has great talent and great potential, of course, but they misused it. Where are the plays, the tactics, the knowledge, the reading of the games?
Another thing that surpises me is this: what's Coach K's substitucion policy? The best player at any particular moment of the game should be in, avoiding "political".
Oh, and please don't use "these guys have been playing together for years" as an excuse, as many of the Argentinians, Greeks and Spaniards play in different countries (Spain will have 4 players in the next season). Team USA seemed to think the would win this by a landslide. It didn't happen.
Is it the modern game? The NBA has always been a one-to-one game to some extent, but the great teams of the late 80's, Lakers and Celtics, and then the legendary Pistons and of course the Bulls played a very different kind of basketball with a different mentality. This game is not about taking the ball to the other half of the court and just shooting.
One last thing. LeBron James. The new MJ? Please!! What has the man won at top level? Of course he's got talent, but he's been told he's the best too many times and he's spoilt. Stop pouting like that on camera!
Better luck next time. Piece of advice: bring a team. The days of USA domination were over a few years ago. Long live basketball, thank you guys for inventing it!!!! :)I'm Greek and i think that you are admired without a doubt by the rest of the world for your team!But today's Dream Team cannot be compared to that of 1992 (i'm a girl and i'm 27 and i remember all the legendary players of '92),plus i think that you lack co-operation and a sense of togetherness.We Greeks knew whom we were competing against today but we also knew that we could win!Your coach was the first to acknowledge our team's worth.This is the first time we won the U.S. and it's a big success for us,but it wasn't accidental,we are unbeatable so far.The team craves for the gold and is more united than ever.We should all bear in mind that everyone is unbeatable until he's defeated..you play spectacularly but it wasn't enough!American basketball players have forgotten that a highlight reel windmill dunk with the player thumping his chest saying "look at me, look at me" counts no more on the scoreboard than a boring 15' jump shot from the elbow or a give and go leading to a layup.
And, this mentality won't change anytime soon, because that's all that American b-ball players in college and high school are pre-occupied with. All you have to do is check out the post game highlights of an NBA game to witness this.Blame the NBA refs! An NBA GAME IS NOTHING MORE THAN AN INDIVIDUAL HIGHLIGHT REEL...WITH ALL ITS TRAVELLING AND 3 SECOND INFRACTIONS...BUT WE LOVE THOSE DUNKS...NEVER MIND THAT NO ONE CAN HIT A FREE THROW ANYMORE!I think the US team needs to stop thinking they are the "king of the world", because the lost against Greece prove it. The key is to play as a team, as other already said. The US can be the World Champion but needs to make the player make a compromise, to do their best effort. Also, where are all the NBA Superstar? Don´t take the players of the moment, or the most populars, take the player that have proven to be good for years not only 1 or 2 years.When Kobe gets in it will help, but make sure Melo still gets his looks. He is the only constant on the team so keep it up. Also we need a pure reboounding and d-playing big man. Although older Ben Wallace or Shaq would help. We got killed on the boards. Lebron, Wade and the others need to just play good D and stick to their role.I think the u.s should hire a fuul time coach thats spend all of his going around the globe learning from the opposition. second i think the u.s should think of inviting to the squad the americans that play in europe they understand the international game and master it. players like anthony parker(2 time euroleague mvp who signed for toronto) marvin thornton, david vanterpool, drew nicolaus and will solomon all americans all of the best players in the euroleague and defintly know how to guard the pick n rollHi,
If an NBA-fun from... Greece can say something...:-)
Guys, there is truth in anything you say (except for the author: No, the NBArs arenot THE most skilled, not all of them at least).
But I do not think you have to search far to find a simple solution.
What is fundamental, is athleticism.
Look HOWARD today : no way to stop him ; everything got better for us when he went out (to be honnest, I'm happy he went out but I did not quite understand WHY).
NBA players are the hardest to play because they are stronger and jump higher. What would be WADE and BRYANT, my favorite players) jumping like white guys and having the body analogies of a white guy ? ...
Not that they are not skilled but a great body helps to do things that others can't.
Just pick up the best of the biggest and more athletic guys you have and you'll never loose.
One has to understand that players do not FEAR NBA players any more.
This was accurate for the 2 first Dream Teams.
But who would fear HINRICH, BATTIST etc ?
Respect them because they are good players: YES. But FEAR them..
So whether you have a killing-machise player (in my opinion, BRYANT is the only one today) and let him put 50 points on his opponent, whether you play like a team.
And for this, no need to have players who play only in the national teams... do you think the other players are "professionnal" national team players?
And oyu need a coach-assistance.
Why not try to have a european (head/assistant)coach for the international events?
LAst solution : Prepare a new Dream Team : the best 12 players.
In this case, no need a system.. wils will come easy.
In any case, here in Greece we love your players but we are happy they did not manage to beat our pick n'roll today..
Finally, it's only a game and team USA was juste beaten by a tem who did the perfect game and perfect was merely enough to beat them.
So be proud of your team.Yes, I am Greek and I am proud of what happened today, and no I dont intend to rub this victory in your faces -although I should considering the following comment-"On the surface, there seems to be no logical reason why a team like Greece -- which may be the Euro champions but doesn't have a current NBA player on its roster --"
Since when having a current NBA player on a team was synomymous of a winning team? The US team had 11 but that did not help much...
A major misconception is that by just putting together superstar players in the court, instantly everything will work out to a happy end.
Well,a team definetely needs "stars" (Shortsianitis, Spanoulis) but it also needs "workers" (Papaloukas, Diamandidis) who pave the way so the stars can work their magic. And if by chance your workers can get their 3 points in even better!
I suggest taking a closer look at the match to understand why a team with no current NBA player can actually beat one with 11 of them (and no need to feel surprised)
How can a US team be excepted to excel on international level when they ignore how the game is played?
Cut them some slack!
Then again, how can you ignore that Greece has one of the most promising young teams in Europe for 2 years now, players are wanted by every major European basketball team and coached by a former European champion in basketball?
NBA is spectacular, I agree. It maybe time though to look further than the narrow US boundaries and see what is going on in the rest of the world. International gameplay has adopted several NBA rules (24 sec attack etc), maybe its time you also tried to open up to somethning different.
One last thing though, yes the US team CAN actually fall 14! points behind so I suggest practicing humility, it DOES help in better and worse!Greece played excellent basketball, but was lucky with their outside shooting. They won't shoot like that again and may fail big time in the final as they feel this game was more important. The US will improve with time and supporters should give respect to these guys giving their time to play for their country - it's not like they need to! The US free-throw %age was apalling, but are these guys experiencing real nerves as they are representing their country? Have you seen Tiger's putting when playing Rider Cup or Liverpool's soccer players taking shoot-out penalties for England?
The argument is almost academic. Everyone knows the best basketball players come from the US. Whether they can win a FIBA tournament with very different conditions and rules to what they are used to playing is not quite as extreme as asking Roger Federer to play in the World Badminton championships, but you know what I mean. The US is trying to prove they are best at a sport which they don't really play.
I know - why not get all the other teams to adapt and play the tournament with NBA rules and referees :-))If you look at each U.S. player, they are more athletic than the international player. The one thing they are not as good at is shooting. Even the bigs on the international teams have great range, they even shoot 3s. Can you imagine that in the NBA? I guess you don't make on ESPN by hitting the 18 footer over and over again, but what kind of shot do you get more often in a game, the reverse jam or a 20 footer. Every player on the floor being a shooting threat makes defense difficult and that is what the international teams do.The U.S. is finished?? What nonsense.
TEAMWORK: Let me address the prevalent myth on this board and steadily creeping sentiment among U.S. fans. What exactly is teamwork? Generally speaking, teamwork is having players who are both adept at scoring and passing and who communicate with each other on the court. It is having players who are willing to sacrifice immediate glory for the more efficient play. It is having a cohesive unit of players on offensive and defensive roles. Exhibit A for U.S. teamwork: the top three stars (in Wade, James and Anthony) are people KNOWN for their focus on the sound play and sure two points over the spectacular. James a 6-8 big man added 6.6 assists to go along with his 31.4 ppg last year. Wade, a shooting guard, averaged 6.7, while Anthony had a career high 10 assists in the past NBA season. Combined with battier and hinrich who gladly give their talents for little press, this squad is pure team. In fact, barely months removed from a championship, Wade volunteered to come off the bench. So the "no team" rhetoric is at best very lazy analysis by people who either cannot or refuse to look further than the surface and just want to buy into the "NBA-is-now-bad" yap. Teamwork is decidely not the issue for this year's FIBA squad.
FUNDAMENTALS
Ditto for fundamentals--a basket remains a orange metal hoop with a net attached even in international play, does it not? If Wade can put the ball into that cylinder 16 out of 20 tries on a U.S. court, I have trouble believing that Japan weather somehow changes this dynamic. James rebounds, scores and assists as does wade; Battier draws charges and chris paul is a positive assist to turnover ratio machine. If this is not a team of fundamentalists, there is not one. I do not buy into the whole Europe has fundamentals and we do not crap. Some players get it and some don't, in and out of the global basket ball world. Period. Tim Duncan is perhaps the most fundamentally sound basketball player in the world and he was and remains a U.S trained player--Divacs (who I like)on the other hand was as much hack machine and banger as anything. Rasheed Wallace a born and bred NBAer threatens officials--while Dirk has steadily blossomed into a 26.6 ppg offensive machine. There is no significant deficit,if at all, in fundamental play between Europe and us. This is likewise not our problem. (the question of what fans want to watch is one of aesthetics--the Malone/Stockton drill was effective but staid and monotonous; however, the MJ/Pippen triangle offense was effective (arguably more so) and raised basketball to a new level of excitement. Watch European ball at your own peril!)
OUR PROBLEM
SO what the heck is our problem:
Try this novel approach--as I alluded to earlier, baskets do not change from continent to continent. I would draw a completely different game plan. Identify a go to guy and milk him. Why the heck do we add a 20+ scorer to the U.S. team if we want him to score only 13 points? The problem with our last championship was not that Iverson was selfish, it was the exact opposite! I say unleash our talent. krwyscheski should have given Wade, perhaps the purest scorer in our squad (at this point), the green light to just go out and play and score as much as he could while utilizing his good judgment on every play. I would like to see some greek, argentine or spaniard stop wade as he slashes and flashes to the hoop, throwing his body recklessly at the opposition or as he pulls up for one of his patented mid-range jumpers. Take that. Bear in mind that this is what the top teams in this tournament, i.e. spain and argentina, have been doing. Pau Gasol and Manu Ginobli have been the undisputed horses and primary scorers for their respective teams in int'l ball, while we yap on and on about team work. And Wade is a decidedly better player than either Pau or Manu. Instead of milking him, we sent him out in short intervals with no time to get into a rhythm. My offensive scheme would be coupled with good offensive role players and defensive studs. We lost in no small part because we had no sharpshooters. That is the coach's failure as he handpicked this team. Also, leaving out Howard in the latter stages of the game even though he had been grabbing boards like he was possessed earlier in the game was not a sound defensive approach and was inexplicable. The two minor adjustments of adding a sharpshooter and leaving a strong defensive presence down low and we probably win the game.
FAITH
SO would the above scheme solve the problem, i.e. our continued defeat in international play? the answer is simple--there is no problem to solve. We are battling a significantly impproved international basketball community with our B team that has played together for all of three or so months! I would like to see "baby" Shaq go up against fully grown Shaq, aka Big aristotle, aka the Diesel, aka Kal-El himself. Or any one in the universe stop Kobe, aka its all me, all the time, when he decides to take over the game. Or any one score on Tim "Mr. Fundamental" Duncan. Or take away a rebound from Big Ben. Please. The day the best starting five in any land beats our BEST starting five is the day I pledge allegiance to a different flag. Cannot happen. Certainly, not now. Simply put--WE RULE.I have seen this comment in a Greek site, written today: 'When we had lost a match against USA by 62 points, Scotty Pipen had said that Greeks have to learn 62 more things about basketball, and he was right. So, we have learned those 62 things. Now it's your turn to learn 6 things more...'Greece achived many things in the past 3 years.
They build the best European team using everything they had.
This game is Teamwork, thinking, study not just physics.First off...isnt this the mag..that didn even have Greece as a top 8 team??????? What a joke...who was doing the writing that day....GREECE IS THE DEFENDING EURO CHAMPS...THEY HAVE BEEN 4TH 3 OF THE LAST 4 WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS.The beter team won....PERIOD....Funny thing...the MVP of the EuroLeague the last two years is an American named Anthony Parker. (He's headed to the Raptors this year). He plays with/against all these Euros.
He's not on the USA team though.Let the NCAA Champion from the previous year earn the right to represent the USA. It would make the NCAAs all the more exciting (more on the line) and would put a gelled team together (that actually runs team-oriented plays and knows how to navigate zone defenses)The biggest problem the US team has, they dont know how to defend.
They do not help each other when oposite player overcomes them. They think its enought to make some full court defence in some moments, but when other team reaches theire zone, they are abosolutelly lost.
US players dont really know any tactics, and how to attac zone game. They just trust they will hit all shoots they will make, and be better in 1 on 1 game but thats not enought against best teams. Its too easy to beat australia or senegal (without theire best players) by 40 and think every game will be the same. Shane Batier should had played all 40 minutes. Antwan Jamison and Brad Miller should play more.I am a native Greek so naturally I was thrilled with today's victory. It seems to me that the problem with Team USA is relatively simple. There are two ways with which you can create a winning team. You either focus on the players physical attributes like all the previous succesfull US teams or you focus on creating a cohesive group something which was obviously lacking from this squad (even though this team performed a lot better than the '04 olympic team).
The thing is it's probably difficult to have both. Because it is a fact that the US posseses superior athletes. But unfortunately in this team the best athletes were not included. The '92, '94, '96 and 2000 teams were dominant because they had the finest. So what if they didn't play as a team? They were so much better that it didn't make any difference. And I don't think it's true that inernational basketball has become more competetive overall. That might hold true for some countries but not all. Russia has been laying dormant for a long time and so have Serbia and Croatia who used to produce the finest international basketball players. In '96 Dream Team 3 had no trouble against Serbia even though it functioned as a team and had players like Vlade Divac, Sasha Danilovic,Zeljiko Rebraca and one of the greatest coaches in international basketball , Zelimir Obradovic (a legend in european basketball). Now instead of Serbia or Croatia or Lithuania you have teams like Argentina or Spain or Greece. This isn't something permanent and in the next Olympics these teams might be rendered obsolete.
I think at some point the US just became too arrogant and thought that it could win without sending its finest players. Big mistake.. If the US wants to play like a european tean then it has a serious handicap. The other teams have been playing like this for years so it will take tham a long time to catch up. My advice: Take these tournaments seriously. Even though I am Greek I realize that had the US played with their best players our chances of winning would be very slim indeed.For Team USA to have a chance at an international-level competition, be it with NBA players or not, they need to adapt the international rules to their own leagues (NBA, NCAA, D-League, etc) Adapt the zone defense, the shorter-distance 3-pointers, the hand-check, everything. There's always this lame international-rule excuse so often used when USA doesn't do well in an international event, please! Stop whining and start evolving. Forget about alley-oops, artistic slam dunks, and poster shots. Eliminate the illegal defense, 3-second defensive violations, the 6 fouls, the 12-minute quarters and so on and start getting serious and ready for global competition.guys like LBJ, wade, and Melo.. the so-called captains r good... but the fact still remains that none of those guys can defend consistently. This is why i think it was a bad idea to cut bowen and what made it worse was coach K playing a small lineup with the 3 leaders.. who cant defend at the perimeter.. how the hell do u expect them to play interior defense!!! its terrible!... and please dont blame USA's loss on shooting.. usa shot 50 % and only had 10 turnovers... so theres no need for complain there.. if only someone taught these guys to defend!!! none of these guys are all nba defense 1st team.. thats sad.. just sad!!.. play some better defense next time guys!I hear a lot of complains about, kobe was not in here, shaq, etc.
Well, not every NBA turkish, servian, were there, and I dont hear them complain.
This is the championship, this is one and out championship, this is not just athletics...
here you have to play phisically AND MENTALLY 100% no mistakes, no play off systems...
this is a matter of being perfect. An problably USA would win 8 or 9 times out of 10. But not today, we are out, so do not complain.
I think the film Hoosiers must be shown to the team
We could be the best, but we are definetly notI love the NBA and was very excited to see this current version of Team USA take the floor in international competition. As may have stated here, it is extermely difficult to develop the level of team cohesion and function that is needed to beat the world's best in only a month's worth of preperation. With that said, based on the talent level on this team, nothing less than gold is acceptable. Sure they're young, but the talent is there, and as I think they convincingly proved throughout the tournament, their desire to win this was high. This team will only get better and will come back even hungrier at the '08 Olympics. Having Kobe, Marion and Redd on that team will make the team better and should get them the GOLD.Its not surprising that US has a weakness in shooting and everyone knew this from the start. During the selection process of players, why did some of the better shooters in the NBA were avoided? USA Team do not need to be star studed, but a well mixed of good fundamental players who understand their role on the team.
I think mixing some college players with NBA players would be a good idea. College players bring heart and hustle to the game, and also keep the NBA player's ego in check. Too much individualism is emphasized in the US basketball culture and this needs to be addressed for our future in international competition.This lose is not that surprising! We have to admit that the greek team has played much better than the US!They have the best defense in the world, they have team spirt and don't forget..they are the reigning champions in Europe.
From the other side the US players were selfish playing only 1on1.
Stop thinking that the team doesn't have the greatest nba players !
Wade was shining in the nba finals, Lebron had a great season scoring more than 30ppg, Carmelo Anthony is one of the greatest talents and leader of his team! Just think that all players salarys together are over 80million dollars!!
We have to understand that the famous "dream team" of the 90's doesn't exist anymore..this greece in the way they played deserves that name!Congratulations.This year the U.S. lost in the Baseball World Series, the World Cup and now this. For the World Cup teams are assembled from players playing professional soccer in various leagues, so there is no "years of playing together, cohesion... etc." I believe that as long as the U.S. players, in any sport, regard these international contests as less important (although they may be) than the yearly league championship, the losses will continue to pile up.Greece played an amazing game? Like a previous person said they shot 65%! Of course a lot of them were layups because the pick and roll defense was not there. I think the US should have been switching on the pick and rolls. Even though it creates mismatches it gives more time for help to come. When they started doing that at the end of the game they were able to get more stops. But it was too late.Get rid of the over aggressive defense. Practice playing good halfcourt defense all the time. They have good enough athletes that some turnovers will present themself through solid defense. USA is giving up way to many wide open shots. They would have lost a few games earlier if teams would have shot a little better. Just make these teams take tougher shots. Also there is no experience on this team. Kobe and Chauncey will help in that category and on the defensive end. Think about it DWade is the only player on the team who has even won an NBA Championship and that wouldn't have even happened with out a collapse by the Mavs and the refs putting him on the line 20 times a game. Which leads to the next point. All these players get every call in the NBA and that changes when they play in these international tournaments. These international officials are not going to give any of the USA players a call because of who they are. You can see the frustration this causes (mainly in Wade, Lebron, and Carmelo). A big guy who can pass the ball would help a lot (KG or Duncan would make a world of difference). The quick simple solution though is a healthy Kobe. He would not have allowed this team to lose. He's exactly what this team needs. A leader who is experienced, not afraid of anything, and able to get the job done. We all know he isn't going to shy away from anything. He would have been in players faces that weren't getting the job done (especially on defense). Enough of this tri captain(Wade, Lebron, Carmelo) they are too young an inexperienced. They can have the role in 5-6 years. Not taking anything away from their talent or potential, just experience. Hell they led the team in losing the Olympics beforeI think what is being missed is best summed up in one word: SOCCER. The rest of the world loves this sport, and most Americans (myself included)are bored by it. The current structure of NBA ball is indeed minimally centered on a team concept, and it is geared to what the American public wants. I may not enjoy watching the NBA (I don't), but it has evolved to reflect its audience's desires. Meanwhile, the rest of the world can enjoy a game that is so play- and team-oriented that they can go home after a 3-hour scoreless tie and feel fulfilled. The comments about teamwork and the lack of it relative to the world teams is certainly relevant, but the fault lays not with the players, or even the NBA, but ourselves, since we dish out the bucks and viewership to support it.we really need to STOP building these all-star teams and then only giving each player short minutes. We need to pick three to five top stars (Kobe for sure. The other four are debatable.) and then fill the roster with role players. You give those top three or so guys 35 minutes or so a game and let them really get into rythm. The rest of the team, the role players, play tough D, set hard picks, protect the rim, etc. We're still playing this all-star game mentality. Great players don't get hot in 12 minutes. Look at Dwight Howard, he was the best player of the first half, then Coach K sat him most of the second half. Why? Too many stars needing minutes. Build the team around Kobe with a 2nd and 3rd option, with a great point guard (Paul did a good job and will only get better. Billups would be good.) and put some bigs at the rim (Brand was solid. Howard was a stud. etc.) That's what we need to do.I am no expert, but changing the NBA rules to play more like the international game would be a good start. I find the isolation game played in the NBA boring. I long for the old Laker style of the whole team running. The international game stresses the fundamentals that are not stressed by the current style of the NBA, as well as playing both offense and defense as a team. Greece won because they did both. I think Detroit "used to play" the style needed to win in the international game. Overhauling the NBA rules would bring the game back to the good old days, and familiarize our USA players with the rules and skills needed to compete.I am a european. I am a basketballer in europe.
I think that the USA and the Greece team did not play on the same level field. If the USA get used to european rules and plays and get to select the best in the NBA in each area of speciality (like three points shooters, fast breakers players, rebounders, and so on), then european teams with or without team have no chance.
To prove it, take the dream with michael jordan and others. They were all best in their area of speciality. They were more ignorant of FIBA Basketball. They have also play little with each other in the same team. No team chemistry. But they won. Review the names on dream team 1 and you will agree with me.
Still I have to admit that European have grown thanks to the American that allowed their trainers to be trained in the USA.
Another thing. If you play against someone who is better that you. You learn froom him. But You cannot do the same. Because you are better than him. It will come a time when he will be much more a challenge for you.first off greece had to play a perfect game to edge the the u.s. just give team usa more time to build cohesiveness and youll see that team usa will win the gold in china. by the way carmelo anthony had a spectacular run and lebron needs to step it upWhy don't u try this. During the All Star Break in the NBA, have the last World Champions (if it happens to be the US, get the Euro Champs) and have them play a combo East/West All Star Squad (voted by the fans)....but play by NBA rules instead of FIBA rules. No zone and a smaller lane.I have one answer and only one answer for the US Basketball problems "K-O-B-E". Hate him or not he's the best basketball player on the planet right now. The rest of those guys on that team are good but KOBE is great. It's time to admit it, I'll be the first.I stayed up and watched the game and was just amazed at the team play of Greece. The pick and role at the top of the key was just executed at a top notch level. The Greece team also played with a different type of passion. They just wanted it more than the US. We are so stupid to think that we can just put these guys together and have them win. the original dream team had the superstars, but they were great players and team players. if u look at that roster each and everyone of them were just winners on every level of basketball. Plus, you had the ultimate point guard in Magic Johnson. there was no way Magic was going to let us lose. Todays players are over paid and for the most part just dont care.Just teach those arrogant NBA prima donnas to play as a team...
That’s all…If the U.S. wants to develop a team, they need to have some shooters and low post players. This team was a step in the right direction from 2004. But, they still need a stronger presense under the rim and more shooters.
I hate to say it but, it's tough to see how Wade, Carmelo and Lebron can all play together. Unless they're running all the time, there's going to be matchup problems on the defensive end and difficulty running plays on offense. Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong.You can't get it, can you?
You can't win the world championship with players that wear the shocks in their arms!
GREECE:
European Champions 2004 in football
European Champions 2005 in basketball
World Champions 2006 in basketballGreece had 65% field goal percentage since most of them were lay-ups. So I dont think the they were that lucky. It was all about TEAM spirit, both offensively and defensively.Thank god for these international tournaments. It is a welcome break from the NBA bore-fest of watching Kobe or Lebron play one-on-five for 48 minutes. If it wasn't for the Phoenix Suns, i wouldn't watch a single NBA game at all anymore.
If you want to send a player that would make a noticeable difference to the US style of play, send Steve Nash....oops....forgot..he's Canadian...The simplest solution is to realize that
losing is one of two possible outcomes a
basketball game. People can run, jump, shoot, learn the basics of basketball, make teams, and think how to play it
efficiently in every corner of the
planet.I think the Suns team would have good success in this tournament. Their coach played International basketball and they play a style that would work here. Of course some of their players play for other countries:>) I wanted the US to win but other teams are hungrier. KOBE may not have been the answer but he developed his work ethic in Europe. Everyone knows how hard KOBE works and even if you don't like him you have to respect him. Same goes for the players on some of these International teams. Although this loss can seem like a disappointment (to US Fans) we should be inspired to know you can be successful if you work hard enough. Have to give Greece and several other teams credit for their determination.Why so down on the NBA? NBA-trained players were the ones who established US basketball dominance in the 90s. Jordan, Barkley, Bird, Robinson, Stockton, Magic - remember them? The fact is, the rest of the basketball world set their sights on playing at our level. And now they are.
NBA players not playing as a team? What the hell are you people talking about? Sure, when I watch a typical NBA game, I see dunks and behind-the-back pases...about every 10 minutes! Most of the time, I see routine layups (Iverson), brutal defense (Ben Wallace), solid post play (Duncan), and fast perimeter passing - way faster than college players. Watch the passing speed of college players in the 4th quarter versus NBA players - it's no contest. You're complaining about selfish NBA players. Selfish? Dwayne Wade is selfish? The guy distributes like it's nobody's business! What NBA games are you watching?
Look, the English invented soccer and the EPL is arguably the best pro soccer league in the world. The English have had great players recently, too (Owen, Rooney, the Neville brothers, Beckham, Aaron Lennon, Shearer, etc.). But they get killed at the World Cup and the Euro finals. Why? There are a billion theories. But it's not simply because the players are lazy, stupid, or selfish. Many other nations also have great teams and great coaches. The same thing has happened to the US in baseball and the same thing seems to be happening with international basketball.
This was one game. And yes, this was a poor performance by the US team. However, from now on, it's likely that the US will always be one of the best teams in the world instead of THE best FOREVER. The sky is not falling, but I agree that we do need to respect our int'l opponents and start playing with the mentality that we can lose if we don't work our asses off.The simplest solution is to realize that
losing is one of two possible outcomes in a
basketball game. People can run, jump, shoot, learn the basics, make teams, design
strategies, and play the game, in every corner of the planet.I really hate to say this but I'm going to anyway. I TOLD YOU SO, FOR ALL OF THOSE KOBE HATERS THIS IS WHY HE IS THE SINGLE GREATEST BASKETBALL PLAYER ON THE PLANET. THANKS LEBRON "KING JAMES", D-WAYNE WADE, AND CARMELO. FINALLY WE CAN PUT TO REST WHO IS THE BEST NBA PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE. HIS NAME IS KOBE. SAY IT WITH ME K-O-B-E, FOR ALL THE HATERS.Greek players are together for a lot more time. They are a very bonded team and RudyT said they play the best defense in the world.
The guards are tall and good ball handlers that can't be beaten by extensive pressing.
Us players are too offense oriented. When things go wrong they don't have the patience to defend their way back. Hasty offensive decisions end up like today.
Bowen and Miller could be key players in this team but coach K went for the superstars.
Team USA, you have to know your enemy in order to beat him.Why? Why US teams have been unable to win a international competition since 2000? I got a theory about that: Money! Why? look at it: in the usa the best players today skip college or make only 1 year in NCAA because they want nba dollars. When they are in HS they dominate thanx to their physical abilities and forget to work their fundamentals. They are great 1 on 1 players with tremendous athleticism but team play, shooting, collective defense, they don't learn that in the nba. So USA want to be a real force again, they have to rethink their strategy to educate players. Learn to play , basket ball is not a dunk contest! Michael Jordan, Magic, Hakeem, Drexler, Barkley etc learned the game in college (shooting, team play, zone defense, respect...). Nowadays players are often stupid and they more look like gangstas than professional sportsmen. Last thing, usa team is led by young players and no team with young players have ever won a big competition (think about it!). Thanx for reading.it says a lot about how b-ball are taught here in US. Most kids grown up wanting to dunk the ball, thinking that is cool. we should realize dunking is the simplest skill in B-ball. all you have to do is to jump high or born tall. the skill about passing, movement, strategy are missed in the hooplas of the dunking contest.Oh yeah, and a few of these selfish NBA players beat Greece at the '04 Olympics (at home in Athens) 77-71, with Iverson and Duncan playing.Does anyone think that the US team would have lost to the Greek team in a best of 5 or best of 7 like we do here in the US? We played one game.I am not surprised the team lost. I was hoping they would defy the odds, but lets face it, for the moment, the international teams are better. Give them time. I think team USA is on the right path to creating a dominant team. If the team stays together along with Coach K, this team can do well in the international arena. I do agree that they need some better perimeter shooters for the team and it couldn't hurt to add a superstar veteran, maybe someone like Ron Artest. I know he can be very volatile, but he plays great defense and can play O, plus he can into the heads of the team's opposing players and maybe the refs as well.
We just need to be patient with this team and give them our support. I know I am disappointed team USA lost to Greece, but I am also very proud how they handled themselves during this tournament. I am looking at the future, and if the US team keeps to this format, I think they will have success in the international game.Why are most people looking for an excuses to justify the loss to Greece. Just admit it, we lost to a better team. Give credit where credit is due. Congrats to The Greeks!who says that Greece should have NBA players on its roster just to be danjerous for the US?People don't care anymore about how many players have their team tha play in NBA!Because the NBA has become even worst to the Euroleague!Players like Diamantidis are better than the 80% of guards that playing in NBA!And actually he doesn't even considering of joing NBA although he had many good ofers!What can i say?Europe rules baby!!Solution #1 - Please someone make a jump shot. How can you play basketball for a living and not make open jump shots and free throws. I don't care if we have to bring John Paxson and Danny Ainge out of retirement, but we need someone who can make a jumpshot.
Solution #2 - Veteran leadership. Melo, Lebron, and Wade are good players, but its hard to expect guys that young to be effective leaders.the solution is very simple...stop assembling a team consisting of talented young nba players and hire true nba superstars have experience and don't panic when they are down. where was KG, Kobe, Vince Carter, T-Mac, Duncan, Billups, Shaq?????? and many others...you need true leadership and some veteran play to keep things together. and why weren't there any true "real" spot up shooters on the court like a ray allen to take advantage of zone defenses? you need at least 3 of them! and who was suppose to control the middle in the paint. howard and brand? no interior presence. the world has caught up to college and rookie nba basketball....let them brang about beating a true dream team not an imitation. no offense to the youngsters who participated...they honored their country but a nation must send its best when international competition is involved! picture italy not sending del piero, pirlo, buffon cannavaro, zambrotta or totti for the world cup? what do you expect?Our best players are determined by performance in NBA-style games, where the rules favor 1-on-1 basketball (not to mention star treatment). Clearly the international rules favor team play, faster games (sorry, no TV timeouts or 20 timeouts/game), and no star treatment. Sure, the officiating can be suspect and the rules strange (if we invented the game, who came up with these "international" rules?). But for decades, we have had the best players, coaches. . . could it be that there is not much more to learn/advance in the game, or that we have regressed? Other nations have players of size and athletic ability, but also a clearly advanced level of skills/fundamentals. It's time for David Stern and his NBA cronies to either get out or return the game to a focus on teams and legitimate competition (stop fixing rules, games) instead of its "showcase of the stars."
On the bright side, Kobe, Michael Redd, Gilbert, and other players could not play. Also, this squad is learning to play together -- keep it together. Also, a victory over Argentina would be a worthy accomplishment.Of course we didn't move the ball, thus their "five on one" defense was, at times, almost like twenty-five on five. Hardly an uncontested shot. Yet they had clear layups and jumpers, almost like we were at times employing a "one on five" defense.
I like the comparison of this loss with the Canadian NFL all-stars losing the first game of the 1972 series with the Soviets. Team Canada rallied and barely edged the Soviets -- by playing more like the Soviets.
We have a lot to learn from Greece and other world class teams. Like that 1972 Soviet hockey team, they don't dwell on single plays. They just keep coming, all the time.
One secret with their better free throwing is taking less time, drawing less attention to themselves. We almost psyche ourselves out by taking so long. Another "secret" is undoubtedly practice, practice, practice.
Why can't most Americans shoot free throws? I'm sure it goes back farther than Wilt Chamberlain, who once said he saw a psychiatrist to help him shoot frees. They went to the gym, where Wilt continued to struggle and his five-seven shrink just kept drilling them.Europe rules baby what can i say??Who said that to be a threat for the US u must have NBA players on your roster?Anyone anymore are care about how many players of its team plays in NBA!NBA has become so bad recent years..Euroleague it's much better!!!So STOP saying about NBA guys..NBA is dead baby..and if you won't change your way of thinking...you won't see the colour of gold for many and many years..Congrats to Greece for their win. However, (even with all the U.S. inconsistencies) I doubt they could win in a best of seven series. I am glad all our Greek bloggers thought this was such a earth shattering world power transfer event. It is basketball game. One game. Play tomorrow and see if the result is the same.Make sure Kobe isnt hurt and we will be just fine in 2008, he will carry us to a gold.Until the US understands that international basketball is won on a unit that plays as a TEAM rather than a collection of individuals (no matter how talented), they will continue to struggle. but some quick thoughts: (1) How about scouting your opponents? Not only did Coach K not know any of the Greek players' names (which shows a combination of arrogance and lack of respect), but the US team seemed clueless about the strengths of Papaloukas (he's the PG) and that team as a whole. (2) How about installing some sort of offense that depends on player and ball movement? Where were the screens, where were the players cutting through the lane? Standing around on the perimeter watching James, Wade or Anthony try and go 1-on-1 isn't good basketball. (3) Learn how to defend the simple play known as the PICK AND ROLL. Every int'l team runs this play (so does every NBA team) -- yet the US seemed to have no idea on how to defend this. (4) Stop depending on the 3-point shot so much. Besides Kirk Hinrich, who was fairly consistent at hitting the perimeter shot, the US had no player who really could be depended on to make this shot on a game-to-game basi. yet they continued to jack up quick shot after quick shot from behind the arc. (5) Lose the sense of entitlement. Wade was the biggest offender here. He seemed AMAZED that he wasn't getting many calls. Hey D-Wade, the FIBA refs aren't going give you the type of calls you (shouldn't) get in the NBA. They don't care about how many times you "fall down & get up again"
I wouldn't rush to break up the roster. In fact, the only 2 players I'd likely replace are Miller and Jamison. Got to (definitely) keep Hinrich and (probably) Battier, who were more consistent on both ends of the court than many of the "stars". If you want to bring in a "pure" shooter, bring in one who can also play defense (which may eliminate Redd, Reddick and Morrison, none of whom are good defenders). I'm also wary of bringing in Kobe -- he's a great player, but isn't want I'd consider a "team first" guy.Dust off Larry Legend, MJ, Magic, the Mailman, Barkley, David Robinson and Co., and let them be our new international team. They can be called "Dream Team: Back from the Dead" or something. Most of those guys are probably bored anyway, and they could probably still win gold. Either way, it would be fun to see Barkley clothesline Ginobli.God USA!!! stop shooting so many freakin threes!!!... You have to play better as a team, particularly on the offensive side... Run Princeton plays if you could!... I think that you have to get Redd o n the team for better three ball shooting... The free-throw shooting was horrible!!! You guys are NBA superstars and you cant even make free throws!!! Why dont you play Brad Miller, he barely missed in the exhibition games at least he could shoot!!!
Not taking anything away from Greece, they played incredible, they barely missed a shot and they really played great defense... But this is just horrible and very embarassing! We need more shooters and bigger, wider, and more physical players. Like a Ben Wallace...
Anyway, PLEASE win the bronze and make free throws!!!A lot of people (i.e. sportswriters, fans, coaches) have said that the U.S can no longer send the best NBA players, have a week of practice and expect to win.
Obviously because the international competition has become way better, which it has. However, I am still not convinced that the U.S can still not rely on the atheltism and skills of its BEST players. When the 92 dream team won, they sent their absolutely best players. I would love to see how the U.S would do if they actually were able to send their best players. The team seems very incomplete without veteran accomplished players like Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, KG, Ray Allen, B. Wallace, etc. While I'm sure most people here would say that the U.S will still lose with its lame isolation plays, I won't be convinced of that until I see the BEST players out there.The players panic!!! We need a go to guy like Kobe and please let's select players who really play team concept not because they're members of the 2003 class.. Anthony is great but Bron and Wade there style doesn't fit international game except inferior opponents.. They are used to NBA rules that a little touch is a foul...Just wanted to correct some moron who said it wouldn't be as bad losing to another team. Obviously you don't follow international basketball all that much. Greece has had awesome appearances in basketball since the 80's. Individual teams winning several euro league cups and its national team winning a few euro cups. They have the second best league in the world that has attracted many former NBA players.Our failures started when the NBA started taking lots of guys right out of high school. Look at the dream team and how many went to college. Even Jordan went to UNC for three years. The college came is much different from the NBA. Much more team oriented than the NBA. Our guys just do not know how to play team ball. Period. Even getting the best coaching can not instill team first in all of these me first guys in a few months. We tried to eliminate such players but the actions are still there even if the blatant attitude is not.I believe that the US team, the players and the coach, should pay more attention from now on to their opponents and not to be so snobs, as it was a fact today against Greece(Hellas), because the difference of level between other teams,like Greece(Hellas) today,is not so big as it used to be....Greetings from a greek person.
In my opinion, the ONE AND ONLY Dream Team was the first one, with Mike, Magic, Larry, Charles, Robinson etc.
If the best NBA'ers, for their own reasons, don't show up and DEMAND to be part of the US National Team, then the difference between winning and losing (almost) every game will be extremely narrow and that's a fact.
I am a huge fan of NBA teams-players, all the ones who make part of the "showtime" but now it has fallen in front of my eyes. Now, the gap between American and European teams is an inch shorter and getting even shorter by the time, i am afraid...
Today's match proved to be a ventouza (greek word for big win) because of the BONDING between Greek players and not because they were individually inferior than the US ones.I think we'll be fine. We have a coach with international experience in Mike D'Antoni. Our team, while it certainly has its share of allstars, is made up with much more balance than previous teams. Anybody who expected to win gold this year may have set their immediate expectations too high. This group will need time to gel, but once it does so, and once it learns the international rules more in depth, will become a force to stop.
It's so American to want immediate results. This time we must have patience and let the Olympics be our primary goal.It is time for American players to wake up, start following international basketball and learn a bit more about their opponents. When Greeks, Spaniards and Argentineans know Wade's and Lebron's every move American players responded that all they knew about their Greek opponents was that they had really long names!!! Just because no Greek is in the NBA that does not mean they are mediocre players. Greece has some outstanding players that could have quite a career in the NBA. Clearly NBA scouters need to do a better job. By the way the only way to fix this is for you guys to dress your best players, which obviously you are not doing. No excuses. NBA players should be honored to wear the US jersey. Every Greek player on that team is proud and honored to wear the blue and white shirt. When coach Yannakis started training camp before the finals there were 24 players giving their best, "spitting blood", just to make the team.
Just 12 made it and I can assure you that the remaining 12 were devastated not to make the cut. I am sure Shaq, Kobe and any other "Kobe" for that matter were devastated too when they realized they might loose their summer vacation over international b-ball. I final thought....when a team wins the NBA title stop calling them "world champions". Obviously they are not. Go Greece!! We are going all the way.
DimitrisI am still amazed that the 1980 miracle on ice has not taught us a thing...
All I keep hearing is that we have the best talent, best players, best everything....
Can it be POSSIBLE that we do NOT reign supreme??Listen, this collection or any collection of NBA stars should be able to win any international tournament. That's the operative word..."Should". First off, why does the U.S not run any offensive sets? This is international BBall where one on one play isn't empasized. Many times players were isolating and playing one on 3 or 4. And can someone play some damn pick and roll defence. I'm sorry but Coach K got outcoached in this one, and at times he looked confused. Why Dwight Howard didn't play more in the second half is beyond me. That small line up with Lebron and Melo playing the forward spots got carved up on Pick and Roll. They need to play 2 of their bigs on the floor at the same time, any combination of Howard, Bosh, Brand. The U.S can no longer expect to win these tournaments, and this is not NBA ball. It's more similar to NCAA ball, it's all about systems, and it didn't look like Coach K and his staff injected too many systems in this team in the weeks they had before this tournament. And it's a moot point now, but I think they really missed Gilbert Arenas' shooting and playmaking.Finally everyone got to see how big wade's head has gotten.. I think wade is awesome but the guy cannot SHOOT he's a driver and against a zone you have to be able to make a shot avery once in a while, same goes for lebron. Melo was are only hope. But the Biggest reason we lost is best said with one word....KOBE... he's our best player , best shooter , best defender (when he really wants to shut out down he does I dont just mean blind side steals....WADE...)He's a veteran we nothing but kids out there playing against men. I want the media stop this dreaming they do to push wade adn lebron in the same world as kobe..or even worse JORDAN
Maybe in 08' we'll have out BESTIt's funny hearing all the pathetic excuses. (1) "International rules are weird"... Shouldn't it be a matter of pride that the US basketball should win under any conditions, and not just in our house with our rules? And since international rules are obviously purer, being fewer and less restrictive, without all the star-protecting illegal defense rules, it's a bit embarrassing to be complaining about the rules. "NBA players have to play in the NBA, they don't have time for a national team like other countries." Baloney! All the other teams have pro players who play in pro leagues and somehow they find time. "We just need Kobe/ Shaq/ better 3 point shooters blah blah blah" Whatever. The US had plenty of great players, but no great plays. If the US had anything to run other than the clear out 1-on-1, they might not have to shoot 3's. What the US needs is to have some pride and WANT to do well internationally. That means putting in some time (doesn't have to be full time, figure out how the rest of the world does it), learning some plays, and learning some defense. Without that, we'll just have to keep playing in our house with our ball and keep fooling ourselves that we are playing "true basketball".NBA is not high level basketball any more, it's sports entertainment. If you see Elton Brand against Greece, you wonder how he can score 25 points per game. NBA was great in the 90s, but the nerw generation has not much in common with those real stars. They can dunk and lift weights, but they cannot shot or play the game.
Basketball has shifted to Europe. Dirk Nowitzki is the best player and Greece and Spain are the best teams.
Stockton, Hornacek and Malone would not have lost against Greece. They knew how to play.The US should not return to international competition without the services of the following lineup:
Starters:
PF-Amare Stoudemire
SF-Lebron James
C- Tim Duncan
SG-Kobe Bryant
PG-Chris Paul
2nd Team:
PF-Tayshaun Prince
SF-Carmello Anthony
C- Dwight Howard
SG-Michael Redd
PG-Chauncey Billups
Backups:
SG-Dwayne Wade
C- Greg OdenMost of my point has already been stated. Individuals groomed to succeed as entertainers. Lebron has the physical attributes to be a good defender and learn to shoot better, but that's not what the NBA rewards him for.
Rip Hamilton, Chauncey Billups, Brad Miller, Josh Howard, Kirk Hienrich, Carmelo Anthony, Michael Redd, Dwayne Wade, Bruce Bowen, Lebron James, Tayshaun Prince, Elton Brand.... for a start, doesn't this look like a much more balanced team? That can shoot... A team make up like this will take the pressure of of Lebron, Wade and Anthony to be penetrators AND shooters. And look... more defensive players... who can shoot. Sure Kobe, Amare, Garnett would work out with the right mix, but not without the shooters and defenders (Kobe just might be a streak shooter.. hmm?). This all being said, playing against the international teams, with their brand of basketball this is still not a slam dunk, but it would be a much better matchup. Lets not get caught up in marketing like we did again (Wade, Lebron, Anthony team captains?? Marketers dream). Let some vets be the leaders, these young guys will be back.Hello from Greece.
You had 95 points in the game which are already enough to win any international basketaball game if you know how to stop the opponent with good defence. The game isnt only run and gun (exept if you are able to have 120 points in each one just to be sure that you will win).
All of your athletes are very good athletes and I was thinking that they could be great 100 m spreeders or great highjumpers or great long jumpers. But this is basketball. It is not enough just to have super athletes that they are able to jump over their opponents heads.Even then you can make nothing more than a 2 pointer dunk that the opponent perhaps can make it easier with a lay up.
So try to see the game as it is (the whole game) and not only the dunks or the blocks.
And for those that they are talking for the high shooting percentage of Greek team I think it is obvious that this happened because of your defensive inexistence or because of the smart Greek game with the over passing to the free player who can jump shoot with better chances to goal.
And as the Greek players (those that you dont know their names) said before the game "We are all having ourselves UNDER the team''.
Nikos
Athens GreeceI feel the guys need to play more games as a team to build cohesiveness. Oh and they really need to stop shooting the threes. It is obvious they have not realized that they need to step out from the line a bit and the shots would probably fall.TEAM USA needs to learn a bit of humility and go back to basics. The fact is that this players feel they are the idols of the international teams. Reality is that Greek players gave 110% to win this game. At the olimpics Lithuania, France, Greece, Italy, Argentina, Spain are all out there to beat Team USA. International basketball might be less spectacular but has definetively become very effective. Strong defence and high shot %. Plus most of the teams play together for years and continuosly at international level. The US is too much inward looking. We need to let the team grow and hope that it will find the humility, focus and concentration they express in the NBA finals. Playing at 80% of capacity is no longer sufficient to win a major international tournament.Play more like they do and less like we do.ball sharing n defense is the key...and please go to the basics and the fundamentals like shooting the "free throws"(hire mark price or reggie to teach your guys), box out to get rebounds for easy fastbreaks, move the ball from corners to iritate the defense, shoot consitently and please dont fall in love with the 3 pts, defend the paint and the pick n roll, hire a coach who understand "team play" and have a team with 3-4 superstars and the rest are role players.
Put big ben, amare, d.howard, garnett as the big guys, while kobe, rip, and t-mac as scorers, and artest, bowen, marion, battier, and josh howard as the defender and chauncy and lebron to back the point.
can you change 2 time league MVP Steve Nash nationality to an american?just joking..my point is your team needs a true point guard...Nash is the best point guard in the NBA right now! NOT MARBURRY!!!! so shut up stephon!!!!To solve all the issues... just send the Detroit Pistons with Ben Wallace.Hello from Greece. Victory or defeat is possible in any game. But the key is "passing the ball" each other. The only sure way to win.COACHING
Why not get a European coach to lead Team USA in the FIBA competition. -Don't Laugh! -Other competitions have done the same. -For example, look at FIFA(England (Sven Goran Ericksson), Portugal(Brazilian coach), Ivory Coast (French coach) etc). These European coaches understand the game, because they were brought up to play that way... It's instinctive, not soemthing they have to learn, or relearn. Just my $0.02Some remarks in brief:
-basketball -evidently- is a team (spirit) game not a 1-1.
-kobe b. is not going b the answer in the US problems. it needs much more to figure out what the sport is nowadays.
-the first step to disaster is to fail to remember even your opponents' names. it's also called arrogance.
-there was only one Dream Team. However, this was appeared some 14 years ago.
-european basketball hasn't much more to know from the NBA. not any more.
Last but not least:
"I had a dream".
I am a 36 yrs Greek male expecting something like this to happen since I was 6 .. but it finally happened.
My national team up in the sky!
Thanks to these players..Ok guys. I've read most of the comments here and here's my opinion.
(1) The US players were NOT arrogant. They respected the Greek team, and so did their coach.
(2)Most people here think that NBA players can't defend. Wrong! Look at the Pistons team the last 3 years. Great defence.
(3)traditionally, Greek teams depended a lot on their 'heart' and determination to make it through. We saw that in the European soccer championship 2 years ago. But this time, the Greeks beat the USA fair and square. Not on guts, not on smart play alone. On TALENT. Yes! Individually and as a team they won. Playing defence is a skill. Passing is a skill. Shooting is a skill. Screening is a skill. Just as danking is. And on the basis of INDIVIDUAL talent (on all of the categories) we were the better players and the better team. PeriodHi, im fom Spain (in Europe for those people that dont know where we are. First of all sorry for my english.
I thonk that the problem of that team is the same problem that US has in all the competitions, the arrogancy. The players dont live in the same hotel where the other teams live together during the competition. The coacho dont know even the player names of the other team (Tooday Kryzewsky named the greek players by their numbers.... After the Match!!!!!!)the players are involved in their own bubble of success and money and when the press try to ask them they have no words.... well can talk about the rules, about Kobe, Shaq or Redd but when you saw Michael, Larry, Magic,... in Barcelona'92 (In Spain)and compares their attitude with the new Dream (Nightmare) Team you could see the real reason of all that problem, the arrogancy of the US (NBA) Team. Thnx and sorry for my englis, again.The U.S. gameplan was either non existent or just plain atrocious! What was Coach K thinking? Why did Howard sit on the bench most of the second half when he was dominating the paint in the first and it was clear they needed him? Same can be said for Brand and Bosh. Lebron and Wade seem totally lost in the international game. Those tow CANNOT shoot 3's and everyone knows that. But time and time again they pulled up immediately and shot 3's! As far as I am concerned Carmelo Anthony is the only one that stepped up. Coach K's game adjustments were lacking and ineffective. Does he understand the international game?Colangelo needed to put more outside shooters on this team! Why were Reddick, Morrison and Arenas cut when their outside shooting was sorely needed?
With all that said, i'm willing to bet that KOBE BRYANT's mere presence will add a great deal to this team in '08. His fire, experience, outside shooting, defense and intelligience would have won this game alone. Wade and James should not be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe! He is the true heir apparent to MJ. Add Amare Stoudemire, Michael Redd, etc. to the mix and '08 Gold should happen.It is really simple.There was only one TEAM in the field tonight and this one was TEAM-GREECE!A GREEK-TEAM against a so-called DREAM-TEAM!The NBA players have it all;money,glory,international superiority and of course tons of talent and physical skills but...
But they do not have the mentality and the fundametals.A coach has to be a teacher in life and work on his players' minds as well as on their bodies and tactics.And remember basketball is a team-game.Become a TEAM or go play golf instead.
That's all folks!
Greetings from Kiato(Greece)-I know "Kiato" sounds too japanese-and of course NBA players are the best in the whole world but far from being a TEAM!
Thank you for the hospitality.
Panagiotis D.Just send it the Pistonsdon't need a national team. And no such thing as international basketball. It's basketball the way it should be played. NBA hasn't played like this for 20 years. Selfish players, crap coaching, and too much hype by David Stern. Let Jerry Sloan pick and coach the national team. It'll never loseamericans have a strange way of reacting. I dint see the reason to be so upset due to a defeat. More defeats will come as much as more gold for the USA. It is game played on equal terms now and with at least 6 teams good enough to win it at any time. So lets relax and enjoy the game, next time it can be the USA of Spain or France or whoever. The point remains that it will never again be the USA every time.
As for the NBA, as a european i see it as really boring, it is not real basketball, i d rather watch NCAA.
A comment on the 1992 dream team also, we will never know it that was the best team of all times bacause they never played a unified Yugoslavia which was dismanted a couple of years earlier. That would have been the best game ever but it didnt happen.
USA is a good team and at every tournament thsy will be among the favorites.I would have chosen Jason Kidd, Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett and Gilbert Arenes instead of Brad Miller, Joe Johnson, Shane Battier and Kirk Hinrich, and yes, Kobe for Antawn Jamison. Having some veterans with young players would have helped immensely. I hope this restores the reputation of Coach John Thompson Sr. He was blamed for Team USA getting the bronze medal in the 1988 Olympics. The American basketball players have been lacking in the basic fundamental skills for years. This is a symptom of generation next. Any exburb private junior high school basketball player knows how to defend the pick and roll, give and go and dribble penetration. Why, because what they lack in natural athleticism, they make up in skills. There is no excuse for any NBA player not shooting at least 70% from the free throw line. Kelly Dwyer made a good point, if this had happen to Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and the rest of the 1992 dream team, they would be mumbling the names of the Greek players while shooting 500 jump shots during the off season as well as taking it out on any defender during the NBA regular season.If USA coach is given time and resources, he will eventually win. That's all folks. Good luck to team USA for Bronze, and National team of Greece for Gold. Athanasios. Patras, Greece.a while, same goes for lebron. Melo was are only hope. But the Biggest reason we lost is best said with one word....KOBE... he's our best player , best shooter , best defender (when he really wants to shut out down he does I dont just mean blind side steals....WADE...)He's a veteran we nothing but kids out there playing against men.OK, here you have Greece, European Basketball Champion just last year…beating teams like France, Spain, Italy, Lithuania, Russia, Serbia etc (that all having NBA players in their squad…) Greek Basketball League consider second only to NBA now day’s, Greek Basketball League teams have been among the TOP European Teams over the last 10 years, winning many times the European Basketball League Title…so the Greek National Team comes to Japan, most of European Teams call them a favorite, playing in the toughest Group of all (Group C), winning all games based on incredible TEAM WORK and amazing DEFENCE and you have TEAM USA wonder what they did wrong… You did wrong NOTHING… now day’s there are better teams out there playing better basketball than TEAM USA… every other national team around the world RESPECT’s TEAM USA for what they are… REAL GREAT Athletes… when they should respect them as a real GREAT TEAM… sorry guys NBA Champions should not called World Champions anymore the WORLD has more countries than US that KNOW HOW TO PLAY BASKEBALL…
PS: If you wonder why NO Greek Players are in NBA… DONT, they are TEAM PLAYER’s not show-Artist’s… BTW I think one of them (Spanoulis – Houston Rockets) is coming over this year…most probably you never see him, as he will not be appreciated by his couch… See You Around…NBA players should take a lesson from the WNBA. Without the emphasis on dunks the women know how to pass and shoot. Even free throws...This disappointing loss is a combination of two factors; roster and coaching. Everybody knows you need good outside shooting when playing against the zone, then why wasn't a single pure shooter selected for team USA? Yes, Gilbert Arenas was asked to try out for the team but he's more of a scorer Dwayne Wade or Lebron type rather than a pure shooter. Don't you think the results would have been different if it was Michael Redd or Damon Jones putting up those threes rather than Wade or Lebron? And why is everybody complaining that team USA is reverting to too many one-on-one plays, of course they loaded the team up with a bunch of one-on-one type players, no role players except for Battier, that's inevitable. Second, why didn't anyone from the coaching staff stand up and told the players to stop throwing up those threes before it reaches 40 attempts, missing 30 in the game against Germany. Why didn't they make the necessary adjustments to better defend the pick and roll when Greece was running that same play over and over again?A lesson in national pride, advertising money and media ethnocentricism (how they relate? Read on):
I'm a Greek living in the US and felt compelled to read all comments before posting mine. Most people have nailed the problem in the head (several problems actually): the "team" concept, the ability to play D, the NBA rules, the fact that the league is designed to entertain rather than promote advancement of the game and team work, the lack of "skills," the way kids are schooled in bball, the ignorant coaching, the lack of role players or gunners, the absence of superstars like Kobe...
I'll add one more thing to the list that apparently no one seemed to notice: obviously team USA has superior athletes, but did you see how they were being overpowered in the paint by the Greeks, especially Schortsianitis?
Think about it: NBA players get paid millions of $$$$ and can't afford to (no pun intended) risk injury during international games. Winning the WC with their national team doesn't mean as much to them as winning the NBA title with their “employer.” Let's face it; they get more attention, and thus, more fame and money, winning at home. And it’s all because of the media. What sort of coverage does ESPN give to international competitions (in any sport) as opposed to domestic leagues? Minimal. The reason is they depend on advertising and advertisers only put their money where they can reach the mass of the domestic audience they want to sell to. So they tailor their programming to that. How many sports fans in the US knew before this defeat that Greece is the European Nations Champion and teams in the Greek league are among the best in the European Club League? What does this say about Americans: We don't care about anything else happening outside our borders unless it affects our oil supply and has to do with someone preparing a nuclear bomb that can reach us.
On top of that, European national teams differ from team USA in that they "get blood on their jerseys," they actually care to win for their nation; this is what the makes all the difference in the world (again, no pun intended). Can team USA beat teams like Greece? Of course they can, if they are 20 points ahead and the opponent has given up. Once they fell 14-points behind and needed to “give it their all” they simply surrendered to the circumstances...
In any case, best of luck with the Bronze and see you in Beijing (you’ve got plenty of work to do)!I know all the kobe lovers out there will say ..KOBE ... would have gave us the gold and all the KOBE haters would say the opposite , but the reality is that 3 weeks is not long enough to gell , however Kobe bryant is the best player in the game today .. i mean he's got an inside outside game and he plays great D....has 3 tittles so he's a WINNER..also he's probably the fiercest competitor in all sports alon side tiger.. but 1 player CANNOT win the gold not KOBE not MJ , but have bryant would have probably helped against Greece...
WADE and Lebron are still young and they've been given too much too soon.. Lebron will grow from this though and will be better for it... Wade seems to have regressed since the finals...maybe its ego i dont know. Melo gives me hope though he's a winner. Kobe lovers...get some perspective ... and the HATERS out there ... take your blinders off...the guy is the Greatest.Its hard to understand that the US team can't shoot 3's or free throws. We have some of the best shooters in the world,ie Michael Redd, Ray Allen, Paul Pierce etc. The problem seems to be the makeup of the team. We need experienced players like THE DREAM TEAM. Where is Jason Kidd, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Guys who are in their prime and proven performers. Who is putting these teams together. Coach K is a good coach but basketball is a players game. You can select players that fit your style, ie Shane Battier, Kirk Hinrick, Brad Miller, Antawn Jamison, and you will have good attitudes, but you will have to settle for Bronze. (hopefully).yeah yeah send in kobe, shaq, garnet etc.... and we think we'll win. we never learn do we. i can't understand why lots of people still insist that if we send our "best SUPERSTARS" we get the gold!!! tsk tsk we just don't get it. look what happened to your "SUPERSTARS", they got beat by a bunch of "no names" (by your NBA standards) who plays good TEAM defense and offense.Hi from Greece... to my opinion you must learn 3 simple things : 1)First and foremost you are not superior to any other nation in the world just because you are called Americans, fact is you are a 320.000.000 people country and Greece a 10.000.000 while you have made doping an advanced sience, this fact in addition that 1vs1 game is what you do in NBA, makes people thing that you are superior as athletes (while you are only at physicals). 2) There is a reason basketball is called a team game. And like all team games first comes the mind and then the physicals. Also a mediocre players team effort (and Greece's players have skills above average) is better than 7 men's individual efforts. 3) Experience is the key...your team was so young and in lack of a leader that when you were going down in mid-game the only thing your young players could do is play with instict, NBA instict...and as you know NBA instict can't beat the FIBA basketball game. So next time send a couple of grown ups to carry the team when needed. And to sum up, 2 dunks of extreme difficulty is 4 points, a layup and a mid-ranged easy shot is also 4 points. When your players understand that you have yourselfs a good team.12 All stars Do Not make a team ! the Greeks have probrably been playing together as a team since early teens,Teamwork & Basic fundermentals such as good footwork, passing & movement,Free throw shooting & playing within a system are the most impotant aspects of a much improved Europeon game, Look & Learn.When they put this team together, why didn't they learn from last time and get some 3 pt shooters? The international line is so close, a shooter like Michael Redd or Ray Allen would be deadly.Hi there!
Writing from Greece, I would like to say my opinion too!
Well, I know one thing: Basketball is a game between two teams, right? I mean, it's not like running the hurdles or the 100 meters, right? So it's the team that wins not the individual players. After all that's why there are games like basketball and football, to teach team spirit, right?
I also know that the best way to lose everything either in life or in sports is to underestimate your enemy or to ignore him so much that you don't even know his existance, not to mention his weapons!
So we come to a conclusion, that sometimes it's not just enough to believe that you are so good -and that may be true-that you can without doubt win everyone. Nobody will give you a win as gift. Either you gain a victory or you See others gaining it from your own hands because you didn't know how to win...
Seeking solution?
Well, I think it's a matter of philosophy, a matter of attitude...
Perhaps you could start with these
Olga S, AthensHi from Greece
We won the best players of the world. Thats why our victory is great, the greatest in our basket history. Try to make better team, because you have very good players, but not good TEAM.And never underestimate the European champion.The US team needs the following things
1. learn how to attack a zone defense,
2. have some offensive plays, isolation works in the nba note in international play
3.Have a zone defense, everybody knows the US ONLY has the one on one defense, 1-3-1 zone would`ve been a blessing todayPay the best 3 point shooters, rebounders/Big men who can execute (oh AND DEFEND) the pick & roll to suit up. Forget athleticism and star power. If you are entered into the 3 point shooting contest at the all star game, you're in. If you're top 6 in rebounding you're in.I think that this USA team played well. They are young but we are headed in the right direction. By the time the olympics start the players from this squad will be so much better. Lets not forgot that a guy named Kobe, another guy named Amare were not on this team, and they were suppose to be. Hopefully we can add those guys and maybe a shooter like Redick or Redd.If they played NBA rules regarding defense and moving screens the USA would win easily... However, that is no credit to American players or to the NBA.
Basketball is a pure sport and in many cases adding rules only diminishes the game. The whole NBA attitude of an "illegal" defense forces man-to-man or pseudo zone defense. This may lead to great one-on-one feats of athleticism but it is not pure basketball. Limiting what defenses are allowed only serves to diminish the offensive team skills of NBA players. (Hey, these guys all played against zone in high school and college!) NBA players only have to learn to play good offense against limited defensive sets.
Additionally, defensively they forget a whole set of skills as they are locked into playing man-to-man.
How do we fix this? Well FIBA are not about to abolish zone defense anytime soon so why doesn't the NBA make a simple change to start forcing US players to truly stay current on the WHOLE game of basketball -- allow all kinds of defense in the NBA...
(Though not a big fan of those awful moving screens that permeate the international game)It is not about International basketball.The rules are almost the same.The states invented the game and now we are being beaten by those same principles.Pick and roll, move without the ball and make the extra pass.Our offense is terrible for basketball purist to watch.Go back to the basics which we have neglected.Athleticism, inflated NBA egos, with emphasis on "show" rather than "essence" is not a substitute for "human spirit" and "love of sport", especially when two teams compete at the highest level. The US needs to build a team based on team play and not on individual show-off, theatrics that impress the spectators but produce no results....I think that the US needs to send and play rangy defenders...Tayshaun, Rasheed, Shawn Marion (who would probably have been there except for injury) and a shooter like Michael Redd, and a couple older clutch wings, like Paul Pierce or Kobe. But who knows, I thought the guys they sent this time would be able to get it done. The international game is strong.I am Spanish, but I'd like to make a suggestion. Sorry if I'm speaking nonsense. I think you have two problems. Your players are too proud to sacrifice themselves helping the whole team, therefore there's no team in the field. And it's difficult to play individually against Europeans, for we play together. You don't either seem to understand the way we play. After the match, Greeks boasted that they didn´t even need to depend on "illegal defense" (the one that used to be forbidden in the NBA) to beat you.
Nevertheless you have an advantage. Europe is full of many American players. Most of them are stars here, and they have trained the way we play. Besides, they understand how important is to play together. They could be a real team and they could face us using our own weapons just because they are playing with or against our players.
I think this could be a good solution for you.Solution # 1:
Send the Eastern or Western conf. champs to play as a TEAM.
Solution # 2:
Pick an nba team...any nba team and send them as a whole.
The opperative word here is TEAM.
Raymond, Cape Coral, FL.
Listen to this man!! It's common sense.How about this for a quick fix...
Before the next game let the US players read these comments.
Sure, they might not play the best team-ball YET, but all of them are no doubt competitors. The team ball concept will come with more playing time together and yes, set-plays would help... A LOT! (Not blaiming Coach K though)
What we can do though is let Team USA steam after reading some of these comments that claim they have "NO TALENT" and "SUCK."
...I'd hate to be the guard who has to meet a TICKED defensive minded Dwayne Wade crossing into the front court.Let's NOT get ahead of ourselves.
1. The rest of the world has NOT caught up.
They beat the U.S. by 6 points with their best players. The U.S. was lacking. Lacking defensive stoppers. (Bowen, Kobe) But biggest of all, WHERE ARE THE BIG MEN!?! Where is Shaq? Where is KG? Where is Duncan?
If these guys had played, the U.S. would have completely dominated the tournament. There is no substitute for power and talent like that, and had any one of the big men shown up, the U.S. would have consistently crushed the opposition. In 2004, nobody played defense outside. Here, the defense was better, but there was no monsterous big men to hold the fort, so the US ended up jacking up 3s in dozens.
2. WHY DID THEY SHOOT SO MANY 3s? No big men. That's why.
3. It's hard to say the U.S. did badly in this tourney. They crushed several opponents and came through in close ones. They have always had a target on their backs, right from the beginning.
With less practice, a bigger target on their backs, is it any surprise that they lost?
4. Why don't they come over here and play OUR game? Longer three-point line. They'll no longer be able to cheaply and quite unfairly pack the lanes and will actually have to play some real man-to-man defense.
It would be no contest. They would get completely owned down low by U.S. big men and U.S. slashers.
We're playing their game. The fact that the U.S., with little to no practice, can scrap together a young team, and then go play somebody else's game with completely different rules, and then actually be a big contender for a the gold, says quite a bit.
It says that the rest of the world still lacks even a fraction of the U.S. talent.
5. LOOKING AHEAD. Bring in Kobe. Bring in Amare. Bring in either KG or Duncan. Bring in Redd.
The rest of the world claims they've caught up when they beat a U.S. that has one arm tied behind its back. Pleeeeeeese. Get real.
Redd and Kobe would shred the international game with their jump shots. The international game has pretty much no real big men to answer for Duncan and certainly no answer for Garnett.
In 2008, the core U.S. players will be back. They'll learn to guard the pick and roll. They institute some playcalling. They be more complete and have more pure shooters available. And they'll have a real veteran big man who can just dominate down low against any international post player out there.
As long as Kobe, and either Duncan or KG, goes to Beijing, the U.S. is a lock for gold. Yes, international basketball can compete with the U.S., but purely and simply because U.S. basketball keeps (infuriatingly) tying one arm behind their back.from Italy: USA beaten by a team with an overall amount of minutes played in NBA equal to ... zero! but even coach K never spent a single minute on a NBA bench. 10 years ago no team couldn't win any national or european championship without two good american players. it is not so any longer. maybe it is not just matter of basket rules or pure team chemistry. the gap etween america and europe is getting smaller and smaller. and maybe Euroleage allowed european basketball players to step up. maybe this is the right mix... less games, higher quality. check carefully ... almost all southern americans stars (Ginobili,Varejao) got true players in such an environment.Greetings from Greece!
"On the surface, there seems to be no logical reason why a team like Greece -- which may be the Euro champions but doesn't have a current NBA player on its roster -- should make the U.S. look as silly"
Why should playing on NBA be a criterion to judge a player?There are many good players ,better than those that do play on the NBA ,in Europe and all over the world.Besides that ,i think you should know that this Greek team apart fron being the Euro champion is one of the best teams on the planet and has many players like Diamantidis,Spanoulis(NBA player from now on),Shortsianitis and Papadopoulos that belong in the category of players i mentioned before.Finally i have to say that many of us here in Greece really believed that we could win the USA team and i say that only to show how we believe in that team.Thank you for giving me the opportunity to say these things.Look, let's be honest.
The main reasons they lost ARE because
1---THEY NEED PERIMETER SHOOTERS TO SPREAD OUT THE DEFENSE AND BREAK THE ZONE APART (I.E. KOBE!!!! KOBE!!! MICHAEL REDD!!!! RAY ALLEN!!!) ALSO, HAD THEY KEPT GILBERT ARENAS AND NOT CUT HIM UNDER THE PRETEXT THAT HE "INJURED" (WHICH IS BULLSH-T)
ALSO, ON THE DEFENSIVE END, THEY NEEDED DUDES LIKE SHAWN MARION, LAMAR ODOM, BRUCE BOWEN, KOBE, JAMES POSEY, TAYSHAUN PRINCE TO READ THE OFFENSE AND MAKE EFFICIENT STOPS WITHOUT GAMBLING AND PUT YOUR TEAMMATES IN JEOPARDY!
2008, IF KOBE AND M. REDD DONT PLAY TO ADD SOME SOLID SHOOTING, THEY DO NOT STAND A SINGLE CHANCE.Before we panic, why don't we give the new 'team focus' more than a month and one tournament before we panic?
I think the rational ones among us would agree with was a much better performance than the last couple of outings.
Give the coaches and players more time to gel and see what happens. Everyone is bitching that we need to send 'team' players, but forgets that teams don't come together instantly.
There are valid arguments on the makeup of this team - lack of shooters, inside players, etc, but they still barely lost in the semifinals.
Obviously, the gold is no longer an American birthright. Let's see if Coangelo's plan can get us there by the Olympics.Unfortunately with Kobe's injury this team didnt get to become the new dream team(Kobe, Wade, Anthony, James, Bosh). As much as there was still a lot of talent in the US team there still was in my opinion missing the main piece which was of course Kobe. I watched the game and none of the players looked like they knew how to defend. That's where Kobe was so important. Not because his shooting wasn't needed but because he refuses to give up on both ends of the floor. He can shut down an opponent like no one else does and can bring that intensity to the offensive end. But let's hope he'll be ready for the Olympics because if we got Kobe we got gold.I am sick of hearing the US has the 'superior' athletes, get over it, there's a big world out there with lots of athletes. The Greeks obviously were and are superb athletes. They demonstrated this athletism by shooting the lights out and by executing a simple pick and roll to perfection. You saw James mouth I cant stop him.Europe rules baby what can i say??Who said that to be a threat for the US u must have NBA players on your roster?Anyone anymore are care about how many players of its team plays in NBA!NBA has become so bad recent years..Euroleague it's much better!!!So STOP saying about NBA guys..NBA is dead baby..and if you won't change your way of thinking...you won't see the colour of gold for many and many years..Everyone who keeps saying that these International teams that would come into the NBA and challenge for a NBA title are a little off. Just like the Americans are having problems adjusting to the International rules, don't you all think that the International teams would have a hard time adjusting to the different NBA rules? The game in the NBA is played differently and I don't see too many athletes on these International teams that could carry their team which is needed in the NBA.I am a Greek and I can see just one problem with the US "team". The US basketball players do not take pride in playing for their national team. Greek players do. Spanoulis is going to the nba next year. But I am sure next summer he is going to be there, no matter what, to play for the national team, to defend the european title. Novitzki has been doing this for the last couple of years for the German. Oh, and he is not confused by the different set of rules. He plays equally well on both sides of the Atlantic...I say we wait for coach K to figure it all out..I mean one loss and we all panic..remember that this is a very young team that doesnt have any real shooters on the roster..can anyone say GILBERT ARENASA very first decent opponet easily beat USA. The Team was lucky that did not play Yougoslavia or Spain or Argentina or Italy or Lithuania in eighth- or quarter final. It would go home much earlier. Being brutally strong and super fit is maybe enough for weight lifting or track and field. Basketball like soccer is intelligent game. As long as US TV keeps promoting anti-basketball "SUPERHERO against others" mentality nothing will chage for the better.what we need is the Greek soul that we would never find unfortunately...when half of the players were stating before the game that they do not even know the names of the Greek players, it shows something...from now on therefore, respect to the greek soul...Our players need to practice two times a day (europeans do) for 3 to 4 hour sessions. One session for shooting the other working on offense and defense. Basketball is their job and they put in a few eight hours a day doing it. Our NBA players practice 2 to 3 hours maybe and far too infrequently. We should adopt FIBA rules so that we are accustomed to them. Stop showing just highlights on Sportscenter, kids think that is all basketball is about, when adults emphasize the importance of the flashy plays kids follow suit. The NBA needs to allow more time for players to prepare for the Worlds. Shorten the length of time for the playoffs, maybe even the regular season and allow more practice time on the off days. Stars should be dying to play for team USA. The Garnetts, Duncans, and other highly skilled bigmen should be lining up. Start respecting our opponents and don't expect to win everytime. When we were down you could sense the players nervousness and it put them into shock until it was too late. Take less threes, pass more, utilize the clock, make the extra pass, play with passion and urgency. PRACTICE FREE THROWS! One positive out of this mess is that we know who can and can't play the international game, at least as of right now. Lebron needs to be cut, no defense, no outside shot, can't drive left, right-handed, and he simply did not make the team better. More Battier's and less so called superstars. Man, how can I get European games televised to my hometown. MORE SHOOTERS! Namely, Michael Redd, Kobe Bryant (man that hurt), Ray Allen, Rip Hamilton. Cut Chris Paul, I mean I love his game but he needs an outside shot and a better handle on halfcourt offense. Why didn't Coach K play D Howard more in the second half? Lastly, as a fan I am both sad and happy. Sad because my pride as an American is hurt but happy that the world is showing us the true way to play basketball as a team.What if we chose a team from US born players that are currently playing in Europe? For example, mix the team 1/2 NBA all stars (who can adopt international style of play) and 1/2 ex-NBA euro players. It's pretty clear that international competition is a whole different game anyway.
Choose a head coach that has international experience, i.e. D'Antoni, and choose assistant coaches who are presently working in Europe.
This will go a long way towards helping the team understand personnel and tendencies of opponents, so you avoid the embarassment of referring to opposing teams members by numbers during post game interviews.Here are the basic steps you need to do in order to find solutions to all your problems:
1. Take a big breath! Aaaaaaah!
2. Realise what actually happened.
You lost from Greece. You lost once again. You didn't make it to the final once more. You can not boast that you are World Champions. You will probably lose from Argentina too.Bye Gold Metal,bye...
3. Ask yourselves how it all started to go wrong.
Well, it all started when,
"We thougt that nobody can win us. Why? Because we are Americans! Because we play at the most glamourous Basketball Champion, NBA.
Because no-one has our talent.
Because these Greeks are so Unknown! Who knows them? Our coach, maybe? Nah! They don't play at the NBA, probably because they don't worth it!
Besides we have taken this Championship more seriously than the previous one.We even did scouting for the national players!
So after all these thoughts, we came to the conclusion that : Winning the Greeks is for sure"
4. Admit your mistakes
"Our defence was awful.
We were not that tall and strong like they were.
We couldn't find the basket in the 3rd period.
We didn't have "clean" mind at the last seconds. We preffered to show off rather than to use a better tactic in order to catch up the deficit.
We made the wrong choises in players, coach, tactic, scouting, knowing the enemy.
We didn't make any SWOT analysis neither to us nor to the Greeks.
Oh, I forgot that we lost almost half of the free-throws, and our field-percentages were so disappointing...
If I have forgotten some, well pardoun me. I haven't realised yet that most Americans believe we are the best-no matter what- when the results show the opposite."
5.Forgive yourselves and you will find peace!!!!!!!!!
GO Greece GO!!!!!
CU
OS, AthensAs disappointing as the USA defeat was, I think some perspective is needed. 1) The USA is not guarantee the world championship, especially playing under FIBA rules. Nevertheless, the USA team can have greater success playing under FIBA rules than European teams would fare under NBA rules. 2) To expect domination or establishing a dynasty in world play is naive. Which team has done that over the last decade? Argentina, the Athens Olympic gold-medal team, will be playing against the USA for bronze. Greece didn't medal in the last Olympics. All this leads me to think that our disappointment is greater because our unrealistic expectations are higher. 3) Over a 5-7 game series, USA will most likely prevail. Yet, these second round games are single elimination games like the NCAA tournament. Any great team is susceptible to having a poor game; or any good team is capable of playing a stellar game. Look over the stats, Greece does not average a 63% shooting average. Even the USA shot 50% against them and a few more free throws would have assured victory. Basically, it boils down to knowing how to adjust and defend international play. If we are able to do that effectively and consistently, we will be breathing a sigh of celebratory relief come 2008 in Beijing.u say kobe will save usa?
dont u think that he and other stars siply dont care?
dont you remember previuos teams full of stars, there even was NO training camps before competitions. and why? because THEY(kobe, iverson, garnett, t-mac even shaq- are they injured? are they sick? or are they playing golf, selling shoes and t-shirts?) DONT CARE about USA.
2.please, show some respect, learn the names of your opponents and then go to play them.
3. do u think all nba stars are worth the money they get? just asking...I think you shouldn't worry about it. The reason I say this is because Kobe is going to be on the team next time USA is playing. So the best thing to do is don't worry about it.only one thing:
How many of you Americans thought there is a chance not to win the championship one month ago?
And what where the indications for being so optimistic? After all it's been some years since the last gold medal.
I think arrogance which mainly derives from the nba marketing is very harmful for this team.Get the best, get the big guy's (Duncan, S. O'neil, J. O'neil, B. Wallace, R. Wallace, Garnet, A. Stoudemire, Prince) get the guard's (Iverson,Billups, Kid, Bibbi, Arenas) Get All the stars (Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Macgrady, Carter, Hamilton, Allen, Marion,wake up and smell the coffee!
with all due respect to the first "dream team", were you ever so superior from everyone else to begin with?
There is a good starting point...Let`s congratulate Greece. They used the right strategy and had 2 point guards that lead their team in a very intelligent way. Used their mind and played a game, not just showed athletic skills. Those guards just killed us, finding free spaces where we could`t. I think it`s time for us to get down from the top of the hill and see how team plays really works.Ten years ago and admired best NBA players ever: Stockton and Jordan. But just best NBA players ever, by no means best player ever in the world.
You must accept the fact that failures of your national team are the matter of the quality. American players are just not good enough to win best Europeans national teams. This quality gap is getting bigger every year as european players, especially from the Balkan area, are much more talented than young Americans. Moreover, european coaches are superior to their American colleagues.
Unfortunately for you, it is your reality. You should find the bronze medal a success.To all those Europeans who are gloating and saying the talent is so good, why is it that very average players in the US go to Europe and are stars? If the US had the sense to put a shooter on the team these games would not be close. Tell Greece to send some of their "great talent" to the NBA so we can watch them all sit on the bench and return home in shame like Jake Tsakalidas.
These European teams are good but we lose because of our selection process and because veteran players can't be bothered to play during the summer.
As for our teams not being "World Champions" please send the EURO league champs over for a seven game series with the Heat or even the worst team in the NBA, it will be a beating of mammoth proportions.The US team is fine the way they are and i like the three year commitment. More training sessions and with the addition of a few more pieces, the US will not fall short of Gold in 2008.I come from Europe.I think that USA team roster should have less superstars(more role players), great spot up shooters so they can break the zone defence,and better perimeter defenders.Also i think you should put point guards who have more experince.Paul and Hinrich are great guards,but they werent organizing the game good.And also you should pay more attention to foreign players and leagues.Dear all,
Just three key ideas for US National team:
Team
Respect
Relearn the fundamentals of the game
Memo: Miami Heat are NOT the World Champions. Look for them next Sunday in Saitama.
Greetings from Spain.I didn't see the game, but there's one memory that sticks with me from the 2004 Olympics: Tim Duncan standing in the lane looking on in disbelief after being whistled for a foul on a play where he made no contact -- nada -- with the opposing player. The 2004 team had countless faults, but with impartial officiating it would have made a much better showing. Losing Duncan to phantom fouls was a killer.
I wonder how big a part the refs played in this year's loss. As many people here have said, adjusting to the international rules is a major challenge for the U.S. team. If the refs have an agenda (to prove the superiority of the international game), then the U.S. is destined for futility.Writing from Spain, I think that is a shame that the likes of Garnett, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan etc are not playing at the World Championships.
They should want to play and they should want to prove that they are the world's best.
BTW credit to the writers at SI for predicting earlier in the week that the US would be defeated.1. The fact that Coach K didnt know even the names of the greek players speaks volumes about how much he had prepared US team for the game and especially when you play with the European champion and one of the best teams in the world.
2. Team USA committed the same mistakes as they did against Germany.
3. It seemed coach K didnt really had any defensive answer to the Greek pick n roll.
4. That 'Baby Shaq' guy was doing a party inside and Dwight Howard should be used more on him.
5. My respect for Carmelo. He really played great.
6. Looks like NBA team scouters should take a second look to the greek players. I cant get how these superb greek guards and 'baby shaq' dont play in NBA.You should liberate NBA teams to play the most effective defense suitable for each team, eg zone or mixed defences. It may take some glamour away of the All-star players but it will certainly make a more interesting league, since teams with less money and no All-star players will have better chances to compete, and subsequently it shifts the balance from individual All-star performance to team play.Some of you don't get it. It's not about them winning now (which would have been nice). It's about them winning two years from now. Fielding a team of head case super stars wouldn't work because they aren't concerned about playing as a team. Building a team of young players to play together for the next couple years will create the chemistry the US teams have been lacking since the last time they won gold.stop calling nba champions as world champions as they are not even good enough to compete in a world competitions. these nba players have full of egos thinking they can beat any other team from other countries. well, they are just a bunch of over-paid egomaniacs!I am proud to be a Greek... We celebrate now because When USA opens its eyes nothing will not be able to stop it. Defense my friends, defense is the key and today USA didnt have this small piece... But i am sure that in the next competitions you wont make the same mistake... We expect your suport at the final...shall we?An american player (professional) said in a pregame interview that he never heard of Greece playing basketball (Greece won last years European Championship).
And you expect this guy to win? He walked in the game and he couldn't believe what he saw.International basketball is not about slam dunks. It's about ball movement, sharing the ball, free-throws and three point shots. And most of all, team defense! Next time, Team USA must have players that can catch and shoot. Lebron, Dwayne, Carmelo are not catch and shoot players, they are nothin but slam dunk and layup acrobats. Next time, they must have Kobe and let him shoot anywhere outside the three point arc and the opponents will go crazy to have 3 to 4 guys running on him and that'll leave the other guys open. Kobe can really make a difference in this team because of his outside shooting and that's what separates him from Lebron, Dwayne and Carmelo.Real simple, no outside shooting?Nothink Kobe, Chauncey, and Redd can't solve. Deffense? Chauncey deffends the pick and roll better than any pg, Kobe is the stopper this team lacked and Greg Oden could be patrolling the lane in China. Stagnant offense? Chauncey is the best pure pg in the world behind Nash. Lack of size up front? Oden, A.Stoudamaire and a still growing Howard solves that.Plus the young guys on this team will only get better.How many players have congratulated Greece after the game?... Expel arrogant baby-sportsmen like Wayde from your team. Team USA in soccer is actually feared because of its team spirit and pride to play for their nation. Why are the Kobe's and Shaq's not proud to play for their country? And something else: you know where team-spirit comes from? It is fear, or to put it differently respect for the opponent. As long as you tolerate arrogant 20 year old kids in your team, you cannot expect any team-spirit from them.I quote:
"In the surface, there seems to be no logical reason why a team like Greece -- which may be the Euro champions but doesn't have a current NBA player on its roster --"
This sir shows your little understanding of what basketball is, and how wrong your view of the nba is.
It's sad that this childish view is the mainstram view in the US. On the upside, for the rest of the world, it also means the US won't be winning any gold medals in international competition anytime soon.Well, first of all, I'm Greek, and I can assure you that Spanish and Italian leagues are better than the Greek. Greece has only one great team, and some that try to become decent!(Great team is Panathinaikos, where most players today were from)
USA needs no superstars in the national team!
What USA needs to do, is find a coach in EUROPE, to shortlist all Americans playing there, and I can assure you that there are many good Americans here, and they are probably better in the same level as the Europeans that defeated you, or could defeat you.
That's the key. I can name you a douzine Americans in Europe, that came right after college or after unsuccesful NBA attempts, but you wouldn't know them!
If you want to beat Europe(since Europe is beating you for 6 years) you have to get your own people that 'beat' Europe day-in, day-out!I see three problems with Team USA:
No team. You've got a bunch of great players. But that's it. It is just a bunch, not a team.
No preparation. You can not win, if you don't even know your opponents names. If you don't even know their names, how do you prepare for their strong points? How do you know and exploit their weaknesses?
And no respect/arrogance. The former point is the direct result of this one. Don't fear the opponent, but respect him. The other team is made up of good players - and you can bet, that they spent hours preparing for the game. I bet every greece player knew exactly the strong points and weaknesses of the american team and how to use them. Because they respected them. Without respect, you are not concentrated and determined enough. 'We win because we are from the USA' does not work anymore.
But, this are not only the problems of the basketball teams - all american team sports (except football) have this problems at the moment. Soccer, baseball, hockey, basketball. Great athlets, but lousy national teams.
Start to work as a team, prepare, respect the other team - because the other ones consist of the best players their country has. Even if they aren't as good, they are determined to play a good game for their country.
A good start would be to stop that 'world champion' nonesense. Another one would be to look over the borders and watch, what the rest of the world does. Some friendlies once in a while to built up the team wouldn't be a mistake.Maybe it's time to stop making excuses and admit that the NBA version of basketball is not at the same level as its European counterpart. Athleticism and talent don't out way team play. I'm suprised NBA coaches and owners haven't figured this out during the regular season. Obviously, the NBA game is more about putting on a show than playing real basketball.That's why we get our butts kicked in international play.Regardless of the excuses being made for this team, this loss is embarrassing. We wouldn't be endlessly analyzing this game if the US team made up of NBA All-stars and starters could actually....make shots!
Period. End of story. Yeah they could defend the pick and roll better and play a different type of game...whatever, etc. and so forth.
Make 75-80% of your free throws and shoot 40% from a much closer three point line when you're wide open and the team beats Greece by double digits.
These aren't a bunch of "Rudys" that are out their to try really hard, hustle and do their best. These are multi-million dollar NBA players. Make a freaking shot and stop with the excuses.
Hopefully, in the next tournament they'll add pure stand and bomb players like Reddick, He Got Game or Redd. Otherwise bring Steve Kerr out of the broadcast booth and suit him up.What make me laugh are all these people saying "send Kobe, send K.G. send Micheal Redd." Individual talent is not the issue. Furthermore it is hilarious how people say the U.S. has the more talented players when they can't shoot or pass better then the elite world teams. Hasn't Steve Nash taught the U.S. anything. Talent and athleticism is not the same thing. Shooting and passing is the game of basketball, therefore you are not the most talented when other people do it better. Furthermore people are saying send one NBA team to represent the U.S. seems to me that most of the NBA teams have international players on them. The bottem line is that the USA can no longer brag about having the best basketball in the world. The USA needs to stop going to these games with that sense of arrogant entitlement, because it hasn't done anything to validate it's own hype.Your not the best until you win.I don't know what Lebron James or Wade were doing, but it wasn't basketball. They are not suited to international basketball in the least.
Neither of them are in the same league as Kobe Bryant. With him, Michael Redd, Chauncey Billups, Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and another shooter (Morrison, Reddick maybe) the U.S. team should be VERY strong in the '08 Olympics.
Coach K really needs to work on his game plan and international basketball savvy before then.melo was good, but K needed to go bigger in this game. nobody was punishing the greeks for taking it to the lane. this team really had only 3 forwards, not to mention centers, on the entire roster. i think that's just player development in the nba. the nba doesn't really utilize the bruising forward as much as it used to. there are no barkleys or malones or even a horace grant or nocioni to beat up the little guys for going inside. guys like lebron and melo can't defend in the post or just don't know how to do it yet, and they were getting beat inside all day.Why can't we put players on the team that can shoot an outside jump shot. The slamming and jamming nonsense does not work in international play. At some point, maybe our US coaches will understand this simple fact.I read one comment above that says "play one tournament with OUR NBA rules and see if the other teams can beat us in this".
I say, you played with YOUR rules in this tournament too... We all know that TEAM USA demands that no tests for (illegal for the rest of the world) drugs, are done to your athletes, in order NBA agrees to compete in World Championships. Perhaps this is the reason why NBA players jump higher ;)
But this is not enough anymore, because that is the only thing left that NBA players do better now.The bigs (Brand, Bosh, Howard, Miller) should have played more and in tandem. Coach K got caught up in the hype of sticking with Lebron, Wade and Melo too long. All three can't play productively together. Carmelo's stock has risen as the best perimeter player on the squad. The roster, for all of its star power has no pure shooter. Need to force Ray Allen and Mike Redd to play and open up the lane. It will be very interesting how the potential egos will merge next year when you add Kobe to the equation. I think one of the core guys from this year will not make it next year and come up with another "Arenas" injury.I like what Fraschilla said abt the difference between world teams and our team. He said that teams like Greece have multiple pitches to rely on [curveballs, changeups, etc.], while the U.S. only has a fastball. Once you figure out the American game in a match, you can win. But teams like Greece can adjust their game drastically to compete with you all game long because they know the international game better.How about playing some defense? I like the idea of building around a core for several years, but defense, defense, defense. Running so form of offense may also help. One on one and pick and rolls don't work all night (unless your playing the defensiveless USA).Here are the differences between the NBA and the rinky dink International basketball:
NBA lane is wider.
NBA court is bigger.
Three point line is 3 feet (circa 1 meter in other words) further out.
8 more minutes per quarter.
6 Fouls before you're out.
Playoff matches are four rounds after playing a season total of 82 regular games. Each match is whichever team wins 4 games first. First team to 16 wins, wins the world championship.
Hmmn... Wait a second, Greece only won one game and they were jacking up threes half the time. Teams don't shoot over 50% in every game. Over the course of a best of 7 games series you will not maintain over 50% shooting no matter how many pick and rolls you run or how good people think they are. The same goes for the U.S. team. Bad defense + bad shooting + really bad free throw shooting = 1 lost game.
Realistically speaking, if the "world" as a whole has gotten on equal footing with the U.S. then they should adopt NBA rules and regulations, not the other way around. Quit with the rinky dink college three point line and quarter length and the tiny deformed lane. Play real basketball where you actually have to play good team defense and offense over a 4 round best of seven game series, then you can say that the "world" is on equal footing, otherwise, rah rah, six boom bah, we're going to the NCAA championship game... again.
On the other hand the closest NBA team that I can think that the U.S. team played to is the Phoenix Suns, and they haven't gotten to the finals either the past 2 years, so maybe there is something to this complaining or berating of how the coaches chose or told the team how to play.WHAT IS WITH THE OVERREACTION TO THE LOSS ?!?!?!?!? As one of the faithful NBA fans and USA basketball fans out there, I think people are overreacting to this loss....YES we lost, but let's put it in perspective here....Talent-wise, we're still HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the rest of the world....also, we did considerably well, considering that we had 3 weeks or so to practice as a team and those guys have been playing together for years and years in that international system....People have seemed to lose sight of the fact that this is a 3-year process with the ultimate goal being the gold medal in the 08 Olympics and that a 3rd or 4th place finish right now is a good step towards that goal....Sure, 1st place would have been great, but we still played fairly well and are learning the ropes of that system....And these players average about 24 years in age, so they're young and have room to grow....and sure, we coulda used some more shooters, but the problem with that is that when you have a team full of shooters, they dont do much else...We will be okay....We need to stop overreactingThe U.S. team needs a player who can provide leadership, and keep young guys like James from becomming cocky and overconfident. Congratulations guys you did it again, i'm sure all USA haters are very pleased with your loss!!!!! You make me sick!!!!!Someone mentioned to get rid of AAU ball, I take exception to that theory. Although, the play is not always the best from a team concept, it makes players realize that they are not always the biggest fish in the pond and makes them go back and work on their game. The high schools aren't doing the job that well either because many of the coaches work on a play and on weight training, but don't spend a lot of time teaching techniques and increasing basketball IQ- the basics. They don't work on those aspects that lead to team success either. During the summer the high school coaches have started taking their players to team camps, where the players run up and down the floor, play four to five games a day but don't work on skills.
Let's face it basketball in the US is about money. Going back to the young age groups where parental influence can force the team concept to be removed in order to make little "johnny or bobby" the star. The high schools are interested in selling tickets to their games( see Huntington, W VA and OJ Mayo). The colleges are about selling jerseys and making the alumni happy. And we know where David Stern stands.
The European view these games as their way to make it to the land of milk and honey( US) by playing at the top of their game and then parlaying it into a big NBA contract.
We just have to come up with a way to enhance team concepts in the US at all levels of the game in this country. Congratulations to the Greece for showcasing basketball skills forgotten on this side of the big pond.Big deal. The USA lost a game that uses FIBA rules. The US didnt have a team that was even close to there best team and they played under FIBA rules and could of still easily won this game.
FIBA rules is an advantage to every team except the US. The US is a lot better under NBA rules. The USA would destroy a zone under NBA rules since they would have more space since the NBA line is 23ft. Its a lot easier for a zone to be effective when the 3pt line is 20ft. If the 3pt line was 20ft in the NBA a lot of teams would be playing zone.
It makes no sense that the FIBA rules & NBA rules are so different when the NBA is the best league in the world. FIBA rules are amerturish compare to the NBA. FIBA is more similar to the NCAA then the NBA. Its very sad that FIBA has tournaments for pros but uses rules that are more similiar to the amatuers(NCAA) than to the NBA. You dont see FIFA using rules that are more similar to college soccer than to pro soccer or using different rules than the Europeans leagues (the soccer leagues in the world) in the world cup.
Its 1 thing to have shorter games than the NBA. But I mean what is considered travel in FIBA isnt a travel in the NBA. Even the lane is shaped differently. The 3 point line shouldnt be 20 ft for pros. Theres no such thing as illegal defense. Its like the NBA and FIBA dont have any similar rules.
Teams such as Greece have caught up with the US teamwise but to say the world talent has caught up is a joke. Theres no way a team that has all NBA players has less talent then a team that doesnt have all NBA players. Thats like saying a soccer team that doesnt have all there players playing in England,Spain or Italy has more talent that a team that has all there players playing in England, Spain or Italy. Theres a lot of international playes in the NBA but there from 38 different countries . Theres no other country other than the US that has in least 10 players in the NBA. The world has a long way until they catch up with the US talent wise.Greece's total population is less than 10 million...
They won numerous medals in the 2004 Olympics...
They won the 2004 European Cup in Soccer...
They won the 2005 European Cup in Basketball...
... And they are now set to win the 2006 World Basketball Championship...
Not bad for a small country like Greece, ah?Its obvious, that the rest of the world, has caught on and play the original bball, while the USA plays something different, more impressive perhaps, but no bball. If you want to win nowadays with only strength and dunks, you must be very, very, very strong and the NBA players we saw, are not .Greece is a very good team, also Spain , Arg and France, even Turk and Lithuania. The NBA chambionship, must return to its origins and play real bball, cause the players we saw, dont know how to move into the field.USA lacks specialist. Thats it.
The first dream team consisted of
the best point guards of all time in Magic and Stockton.
Point specialist in MJ and Clide.
Best shooting and all around swingmen in Pippen and Chris.
Sheer power and determination in Sir Charles and karl which is rebound and point specialist as well..
Now dont tell us that the NBA lacks these typ of players?
Larys magic hands and pure shooting abillity. and not to mention these powerhouses of ewing and david robinson..
Well you see.. Assist, points, perimiter, rebound and hustle is the key ingrediens to win against international teams. Thats what TEAM USA realy need to assemble ...
!!!Someone mentioned to get rid of AAU ball, I take exception to that theory. Although, the play is not always the best from a team concept, it makes players realize that they are not always the biggest fish in the pond and makes them go back and work on their game. The high schools aren't doing the job that well either because many of the coaches work on a play and on weight training, but don't spend a lot of time teaching the basics. They don't work on those aspects that lead to team success either. During the summer they have started taking their players to team camps, where the players run up and down the floor, play four to five games a day but don't work on skills.
Let's face it basketball in the US is about money. Going back to the young age groups where parental influence can force the team concept to be removed in order to make little "johnny or bobby" the star. The high schools are interested in selling tickets to their games( see Huntington, W VA and OJ Mayo). The colleges are about selling jerseys and making the alumni happy. And we know where David Stern stands.
The European view these games as their way to make it to the land of milk and honey( US) by playing at the top of their game and then parlaying it into a big NBA contract.
We just have to come up with a way to enhance team concepts in the US at all levels of the game in this countryWhy should the World Championships and Olympics be played according to European rules?
The Europeans altered the rules of basketball in order to hide their athletes' physical deficiencies.
Compared to an NBA starter, your typical European basketballer lacks speed, agility and leaping ability.
Are there exceptions? Sure--and they're all playing in the NBA.
Let's see Greece in a best-of-seven series against The Miami Heat, under NBA rules.
Greece wouldn't stand a chance.The difference is that USA, doesnt play bball any more.Something else, maybe, but not bball.Send the NBA champs, minus any foreign players, and their coach. A team needs a system. Get guys that have played 82 plus playoffs together, proven winners, and you better believe they have an offense. Also, look at the champions for the last several seasons (as far back as I can remember, almost every one of them has at least one good shooter, if not a few. They also have a GAME PLAN, a set defense and offense that works no matter what team they play night after night. Miami this year may be a little of an exception. But take Detroit, take the Spurs, and substitute respective role players to fill the same roles that the removed foreign players played. (JJ Redick should be one of these players always, given his amazingly hot hand from downtown - and that's from a Terps fan).Hi from Spain,
I disagree with the "diferent rules" argument. In the past (10-15 years ago) the rules were very much diferent than nowadays.... and your teams were the very very best.
FIBA rules have been adapted to be more similar to NBA rules (now more than ever) and your teams loses against european basketball (Argentina plays european basketball).
Maybe your players aren't as good as you (and they) think. NBA's stars: Nowitzki, Parker, Ginobili, Nash, Gasol, Duncan.... yes and KOBE BRYANT.
Adios.Greece has one of the best teams in the world when it comes to Basketball. It could have gone any way, and it went this way, simply because the US players didn't act as a team. Why so surprised?may be it could be a good solution to get a coach from another country or let D'antoni coach, as he has spent lot of time in Europe. I think that the main problem of Us Team is that they don't play together too much and in every competition there are different teams( in Athens the biggest player were Duncan, Iverson and Marbury, here in Japan Anthony, Wade e James)..US Team always changes, and it is no good at this time, where the other teams know each other better and for a long time(Italy,Spain, Greece, Argentina,Slovenia)...That's why i think that US Team will not improve that much unless they play with this Team: Kidd, Marbury, Iverson, Wade, James, Bryant, McGrady, Anthony, Battier,Garnett,Duncan & Shaq.Send the NBA champs from that season. It should be part of winning the championships that they must represent the US. The foreign players on that team should be replaced by players who adequately fill the same role, filling the skills gap. That way the team is used to having a GAME PLAN including an established OFFENSE and DEFENSE. Send their coach as well. Those guys will have played 82 plus playoffs games and should be ready to face any opponent. Small adjustments can be made, based on IN DEPTH SCOUTING REPORTS, but night in and night out, an NBA championship team doesn't change their game plan all too much. Duncan still plays like Duncan, Rip still runs his defender silly around all the screens, and Wade still cuts to the whole, while Shaq pushes away other rebounders.
The champs will have proven success which should prevail against any team they would faceI don't think it is all doom and gloom over the US loss. I think they aquitted themselves better than recent US teams and learned a lot from this international experience. Losing to Greece I think overall will make the US team better for Beijing 08.
The lack of quality international competition obviously hurt the US. For example the US came out playing NBA style physical pressure defense and went up by 12, but at the same time were mounting up foul calls because of that defense. How many points did Greece get in the start of the game that weren't free throws? So with mounting fouls and Greece changing to the pick and roll the US let them sit back shoot open shots and make great passes. Good bye 12 point lead. Plus the Greeks actually make free throws, unlike the US.
I don't watch international ball but is the amount of foul calls typical of an international game? The only game worse than watching this game is watching an NBA playoff game.
By the way more Dwight Howard would have been nice as well.The biggest reason why we lost this game was the coaching. We never adjusted when things weren't working. If we could bring in a guy like Phil Jackson (a master at managing personalities), with his triangle offense (everyone can potentially score), it would translate to a better showing. Coach K also did a poor job at roster management. There is no reason why Dwight Howard or even Brad Miller should be sitting most of the game, when we need size on the court."Truly a pathetic showing. I could almost accept a gold medal game loss to Spain or Argentina, but a loss to Greece?" ... says one above.
THIS IS WHY YOY LOSE... Do you know ANYTHING about greek basketball? Do you know that they've been top level in FIBA BAsketball the last 20 years? Do you know that they are European Champions (Spain is in Europe too...)? Do you know that greek clubs are the best in Euroleague and many people in the rest of the world claim that Panathinaikos (the best greek club, the one Dominique Wilkins played after he left the Celtics), could beat most NBA teams? Do you know that Yanakis (the greek coach) is in your Baksetball Hall of Fame and he has played over 350 times for the Greek National team as a player?
When you learn such things, then maybe you can be top again. Because if you don't know nothing about your opponent, you are doomed.Teams are not made with skills muscles and millions of dollars.
If you learn this simple thing, you might get us next time...Well,I am Greek and proud of my team's victory.
If basketball was just a game of running and jumping then the NBAers should be better off in track and field.Anyway the NBA is not what it used to be.It's just an overestimated show.Each team is a one man's show(and thus their game quite simplistic),the abundance of foreign players in your league is embaressing and there's definately not any Jordan or Larry coming any time soon.
Nowadays being an NBAer means nothing.Don't forget: Greece also beat China, Brazil,Australia Lithuania and France all of which had NBAers in their roster.
Before you build another dream team try and teach the players the basics of defence.A man must walk before he can run.
For once admit you lost fair and square.well hello to all of you i want to tell you some things.
1)we dont want to change the FIBA rules to NBA for one and only reason bbl is team sport if you like the NBA rules go and play 3 on 3 and enjoy the dunks.(Also to refresh your memory FIBA have change 1 important rule and thats is from 2 halfs to 4 periods, why NBA dont do something like that)
2)this US team have very good players individual, but not strong team, they can be i am sure for that but first must someone teach them the basics.
3)you arguing all the time and you have forget something very important
what is the most wonderfull thing in bbl to see 2 teams play good bbl and today we have see 2 very good teams play very good bbl enjoy it beacuse is the first important thing and then start saying who makes this and that.
Chris from GreeceDid the Team USA players know that they were playing with the European Champions? I have a feeling they didn't...The NBA must adapt.
Failures of NBA stars in the international stage will have a negative impact on the prestige of NBA basketball.
NBA shall encourage team basketball and discourage one-on-one isolation offensive set.
We should start by allowing all types of defense. The 3-second defensive rule is the stupidest rule since the illegal defense.The main problem is that no matter how athletic is this team or how high these players can jump you can't win by playing one on one all the time.You had no real center to match Big Sofo and to be fair usa's defense was a joke.And of course i can't understand the passion they have of shooting so much 3poins.By the way in the comeback of Greece they just lost it.As much as i admire the nba players the coach has to completely change the way they play if they want to reach top.Against teams like katar and italy one on one works but against greece,spain, argentina u have problem.And last thing, i can't understand why you underestimate Greece so much. I mean...because they have no NBAers they don't deserve to win.Proof is that we won(im greek) and we are here fair and square. And finally i don't think there was any serious scouting or understanding of their opponent. Some usa player stated that diamadidis is a well known and exceptional shooter!!And of course the rest wouldnt even know a name of our team let alone the way we play. Carmello said we dont worry about greek play...we focus on ours.If you don't know your opponent how u think you'r gonna win?The game was lost by ESPN Sportcenter. All they show are dunks or threes so all we see in games are dunks or threes. Nobody plays together and no one can shoot because it isn't required anymore and Free Throws are a lost art. --- A grade school coach.Is obvious that US basketball is failing all the time. Explanation...the only u have to do is compare NBA basketball with FIBA basketball and NCAA as well.
NBA is full of 1on1 play where physichal talent is the most important meanwhile in FIBA all have to work as a team where some players take the most important decisions, as Gasol or Ginobili for example.
I wonder something. Nowdays in actual NBA basketball...what team would select actually players as Bird, Mullin or McHale if they were young?
Basketball is more than muscle and dribling...is mind and soul.US left it somewhere...
Opinion from Spain...As usual the answer is fundamentally simple. it is not the offense that is the problem, its the defense. You have athletically inferior opponents running the basic pick and roll on you all day. It's not some exotic play they are runninng, it's a pick and roll! You learn how to defend and run the pick and roll when you are in kid's ball. These guys act like they have never seen it before. If you aren't going to defend it then play a zone.The international game has caught up with the US's, but the current team certainly does not remind you of your parent's team. If the US ever wishes to win gold again, it must find or develop some of the qualities and balance which made the 92 dream team so unbeatable: experienced players (pretty much all of the 90 dream teamers were), physical and/or intimidating players (Ewing, Robinson, Malone, Barkley), players who could make sure that the offense could generate high percentage shots rather than an over-reliance on threes or one-on-one play (Magic, Stockton, Bird), and players who were athletes (Jordan, Pippen, Drexler), though this is one area in which the current team is not lacking. Unless the current team (even with the addition of Kobe Bryant) can find these missing ingredients in 2008, I don't foresee the US winning Gold.The bottom line is that (like a lot of things) what happens on the international stage is not that important to us. The NBA, the media, and the players and coaches went through the motions of acting like this wasn't the case, but this story will last no more than two days. Until winning these things is as important as the pennant race and fantasy football, we'll never compete. We can't even get our best AND most experienced players (the obvious ones and not obvious - Rasheed Wallace would be great in the int'l style of play) to have any interest.The world game is a different game. Personally I am a fan of pure basketball and feel that the NBA has developed a style that prioritizes marketability. The NBA's rules and double standards of officiating don't help our players one bit when it comes to FIBA rules. Bad habits, bad habits, bad habits. It takes more the 3 weeks to re-learn and in the case of some of the non-NCAA players it takes more time to learn for the first time. We have by far the most talent, nobody would dispute that,
Congrats Greece,
Go USA 2008
Step it up,
and FIBA move that 3 back, not that it would benefit us but lets be honest.When Kobe is healthy and returns to the team you can just say ITS OVER U.S.A will win GoldSpending more time together as a team has nothing to do with not being able to hit a simple free throw..........As a Greek i m very very proud for my team!We won the US team because we are a TEAM.I think that Argentina and Spain are more TEAMS than the US team.The great about our team is that there is no difference on who will take the shot.There is a system and 12 players that can play at anytime.The one-on-one game is no longer enough to win a game.Surely this win doesn't mean that suddenly we Greeks can play the basketbal better than americans.But the sure thing is that US team shouldn't underestimate teams like Greece, Spain, Argentina.Basketball is not only muscles but brains and bravery too.And these we have them in great quantity!
Go Greece for the gold!There is only one solution: Play NBA's best players. Yes -- Wade, Anthony and James are phenomenal, talented and atheltic basketball players, but they don't complement one another (The three of them are slashers but not one of them is a pure shooter.) Break the trio as a drastic measure.
There are 10 improvements the USA team can make:
1. Remove Chris Paul (Chris is a playmaker, but he needs to work on his perimeter game. Otherwise, his opponents will float and double team off him -- just like what Steve Nash did against Smush Parker in the playoffs last season) and bring in Chauncey Billups. Chauncey is a veteran and a pure shooter -- also a prolific free throw shooter and defender.
2. Remove Elton Brand -- find a taller, hard-nosed and pure center. TEAM USA can't win with Dwight Howard (although kudos to him he outperformed this FIBA tournament) and Elton Brand in the 5 position.
Grg Oden is still raw and extremely young; perhaps, reinvite Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett or a healthy Amare Stoudemire will suffice.
3. Kobe Bryant will definitely take this team to another level. Yes Kobe has been living with bad publicity lately, but Kobe is a veteran and a clutch shooter -- a big-time player who can bring shivers to his opponents. He is still the best player in the NBA. Playing KB alongside Chauncey this qualifying tournament in VEN next summer will change USA's game completely -- and for good.
4. Lebron James is a big disappointment in this tournament. I know he can do better than missing most of his free throws and three-point shots. Kudos to Carmelo Anthony for being a clutch player, but sometimes he forgets to pass the ball.
5. Add Michael Redd -- they can't play zone with Michael Redd in the 2-guard position, Chauncey at the point and Kobe's playing the small forward position.
6. Please don't bring back Lamar Odom or Paul Pierce -- both are skilled players but lack clutch.
7. I was pissed about Joe Johnson's defensive lapses against Greece -- I was counting how many times he got lost in Spanoulis' crossover move.
8. Coach K should've played the 2-3 zone against the high pick-and-rolls Greece ran the whole game. C'mon now -- that's just a minor adjustment a veteran coach should make. Yes zone can free Greece's shooters, but smooth defensive rotations and help-outs can avoid the Greeks from hitting easy shots. Anyway -- they can't control Greeks from hitting three-pont shots even with man-to-man defense.
9. I'm not sure about bringing in Shawn Marion or Josh Howard-- because his unorthodox shooting form looks unreliable, but perhaps a stronger and more complete SHANE BATTIER-type is enough. RAJA BELL or BEN WALLACE.
10. Here is my 12-man roster:
OUT: Chris Paul, Elton Brand, Antawn Jamison, Joe Johnson, Brad Miller
IN: Kobe Bryant, Chauncey Billups, Michael Redd, Amare Stoudemire, Raja Bell (at least he is a great shooter and defender than Antawn Jamison)
Uncertain: Kirk Hinrich, Shane Battier, Lebron James
Wait listers: Shawn Marion, Josh Howard and Tracy McgradyAs a guy who loves soccer and basketball, USA has been way too immersed in NBA, like England with the premiership. So much potential to win, yet too overrated in the end.
I reckon to prove yourselves worth (I'm from Malaysia), when a player, not James, Wade or Anthony is playing well DURING the game, and someone else like Bosh, Howard, Hinrich, Johnson is, why sub them off and make more defensive mistakes, when this whole USA team is supposed to have DEPTH. Doesn't that mean that all players are EQUALS.
Putting the 3 captains on the floor at the same time killed their size + defense. I ain't surprised USA lost, won't be surprised if they had won the whole thing too.
But I reckon if Kobe was in it, just his pure winning mentality would have won the whole championship. The 3 young captains didn't have that. Even Wade had Shaq to guide him to being an NBA Champion.
Cheerios.Hello there!!!
I'm Greek,and only 14 years old!!!
Well,I always said we would win this match,but not because your players are bad.Just because Greeks are people with great power and belief,and they never give up.They play 'till the last minute.
When we beat France, the whole country believed we had some chanses to beat USA,too! Everybody said it was difficult,but not at all impossible.Our team has proved that it can win a match even in the last second!
You have a great team,I mean this, I have watched many of your games,but i daresay it is not a TEAM.
You have got Carmelo, a GREAT player and other 2 or 3 stars, but they play for themselves!
I also have to say that it is good to call your "team" a good team,(or a bad match of great players)but, come on,it is not the best in the whole world!!!
My best friend,also 14 years old,who has not watched Mundobasket at all, suddenly told me yesteday:"Oh my god!We are playing against the NBA!No chance to win!!!"
My response: "You haven't watched a match!You cannot talk!NBA is really great,but it is now close to the European basket!They are the infamous NBAplayers.We are the most crazy people in the world,Greeks!Our team is great,we can face USA and not be humiliated,we can even win!"
She still did not believe me,but during the match (which she decided to see) she sent me a thousand messages via cell phone, and was really excited!
"They play like GODS"she said.
Then when we won,we all started screaming and jumping and jumping again!
We are GREEKS.We are crazy.We believe.We play until the last second.We never underestimate our opponents.We may hate our team,then the next second love it.We may cry,thn start jumping.We have fire in our hearts.We never forget that in this world everything can change.
Believe me,your team is great,it just was unlucky to face Greece in the semi-finals!
If it was lucky it would face our team tomorrow,in the finals.
But it would be really hard to win the gold medal!!!
I don't know if anyone who is not Greek can understand all this,because we are really very unusual people!!!
When we want to do something,anything,we just have to believe it.And when we do,it is hard to stop us!!!
I think what makes our team so good,is that we are united.The players are united,the country is united,even enemies can be united by sports!We really need simple things to get obsessed!
All this obsession is carried by the team.When our team plays,our hearts are with them,and they try for all of us,they try not to dissapoint us.When they win,they win for the whole country.They become our gods,we love them, we believe in them and that gives them great power.When they lose, we encourage them.I think I eventually like it we are only 10 million !!!
We are more united!!!
So now,if anyone of you has managed to read this,is the end of a very bad written article,but what i wrote comes straight from my little heart!!!
Φωτση,Διαμαντιδη,Παπαλουκα,Σπανουλη,Τσαρτσαρη,Παπαδοπουλε,Χατζηβρεττα,Κακιουζη,Σκορτσιανιτη,Βασιλοπουλε,Ντικουδη,and last and best, Ζηση
we love you!!!!!!!!!
(These were the greek names of our players!!!)
Bye and sorry for this long,crazy,a little off-topic "article"!!Team USA does not have a leader..its a joke to call Carmelo, Lebron and Wade the leaders? There can only be one leader on a team .... Kobe would have ran this team and everyone else would have had to assume their roles as supporting cast!The Foul shooting is what did us in more than ANYTHING. Hit 7 more foul shots and it's a WIN.
Another thing, we had 4 greek players in foul trouble, WHY didn't we foul them out?
If they paid us to have a 'full time team' like ALL these other countries have had for DECADES, then maybe we'd be more competitive. Don't hate on the US team, they wanted to win BADLY. But it just wasn't in the cards..To all the Kobe Haters,
What happened again, will always happen as long as Kobe isn't playing in the tourneys. He has the range to shoot from almost anywhere on the court, he can attack and get to the rim at will, he can hit threes, he can play better D than anyone there(see all-NBA defense first team), and he can become a team player if he wants to be(just like in the playofss where the Lakers almost pulled an upset). So for anyone who thinks that we don't need Kobe to win, i say to watch the last game again, and tell me why they don't need kobe when d-wade is clankin threes, when bron is playing like he's already home, and when another greece player blows by our so called pressure defense. no kobe, no chance.Does anyone think if Kobe was there other teams could have stopped him? If you do you are crazy. He would bring 2,3 diffenders on him and we would have guys like Antony,James,Wade or someone inside open. And when team USA struggled he would put them behind his back and carry them with him.And other who hate Kobe is because he is so close being the next Jordan that they are affaird and start to dislike him. We will see what will happen in 2008 Olimpics. Championship is ours.
And at last NBA champions are not WORLD CHAMPIONS!!! Change it you USA champions!!!Hire NBA refs........
It's obvious our guys have gotten WAY to comfy with the way "superstars" get calls in the NBA. Are you listening, D-Wade??"On the surface, there seems to be no logical reason why a team like Greece -- which may be the Euro champions but doesn't have a current NBA player on its roster --"
!!!!!!!!!!Oh father Zeus!!! I think that you should change proffesion Mr Mike! Thinking like this is the most secure way to keep on struggling for years and years more.... Open your mind and face the reality man! NBA isn't the ultimate goal for a basketball player!Can we all now agree that Coach K is the most overrated fraud in the history of basketball?
Or will it take another debacle in Beijing for everyone to open their eyes?
I can't believe we let this schyster represent this country in basketball.This team is the reincarnation of the Dream Team. Missing were Magic, Michael, and Larry on the sideline. Support from these icons would translate to 20 points a game, and officially hand them the torch and vote of confidence."On the surface, there seems to be no logical reason why a team like Greece -- which may be the Euro champions but doesn't have a current NBA player on its roster -- should make the U.S. look as silly as it did on several occasions Friday"
See that comment just shows that you have very little understanding of international basketball. Greek players are more than happy playing at home. As it's been mentioned before the Greek league is probably the 2nd best in the world. The players are very well rewarded financially and they don't need to move half way across the globe and away from their friends and families.
Have you ever considered that they are not playing in the NBA because they don’t want to? …and please don’t tell me that most of these guys couldn’t cut it in the NBA if they wanted to.If you consider that this team did not have enough time together, then even a 4th-place finish would not be bad.
What this team needs to do is to get the players more familiar with each other, and to learn some organized plays so that they don't have to resort to one-on-five basketball.
I think the players did their best, and I applaud their efforts. I would be more apt to think that the Coaching needs to get better - as I feel Coack K essentially left his players hanging out on a limb - thus the regression to what the players knew best - individual basketball.
Although we'd like to think that our players are more talented and athletic than the other players, this is juts not so. How many of our players are as good offensively as Nowitki? Athletically, did anyone see Rudy Fernandes from Spain? I'd say the talent and athletic level is pretty even. What we need to do is forget the idea that our talents are superior and recognize that we need to practice, train and WORK in order to win.the baddest player in the world would not had let this happen , sorry wade , labron , camelo , his name is kobe . he is a killer on defence , he hits three's , he hits free throws and he plays with a passion to win ! this proves you three could not get it done. kobe will get it done in bejing !Hi
First i'd like to say that Carmello is SUPER!!
If this USA team was directed by ANY EUROPEAN COACH (EASTERN THE BETTER - Ivcovic,Obradovic,Ioannidis,Kazlauckas etc) and given 1 month for preparation, would have defence avg pts 40-50!(offence keep it as it is...)
It's all matter of tactics.
Players like Carmello or Wade would be apart from scorers the BEST DEFENDERS in a Euroleague team!
TOTAL BASKETBALL!
Change the rules or send these allstars to euroleague in order not to WASTE their talent.
GREETINGS FROM A TODAYS SEMIFINAL WINNERFirst, the world still admires the NBA, and all nations love to see their players succeed in the US. We have to respect the NBA's generosity to the world in admiring foreign players and taking them in too. But that means that more and more international teams with NBA players are not going to be afraid of the US nats.
Second, showtime stinks. It creates laziness, especially mental laziness. You look at the last 2 minutes vs. Greece and you see terrible errors on the floor and from the bench too. It was a game that could have been won, but most of the clutch choices -when to shoot, where to shoot from, how not to foul, how to foul quickly- were blown. Coach K terribly mismanaged that part of the game, just as he blew other stages of it. Could it be time to have more quality international coaches helping out the US? All national team coaches -and the press, much better than the after-the fact US press- except the Americans know players and teams from all over the world, and understand the FIBA game.
Finally, just want to say that this 'problem' of the US not winning at the game they are clearly superior in is one of the great world sport stories of the last few years. It is like a boggling riddle or an unsolved math problem. Watching the US trying to figure it out in the World's and Olympics is very entertaining.
JS, from BarcelonaThe US has many talented players and coaches. Unfortunatly players alone can not win at an international level alone! You need a TEAM! The US should create a TEAM that has great chemistry and are veterans to the game and not rookies! GREECE did not even have a player on the NBA level and made the USA team look like they were a church league amatures! GREECE won it fair and square because the US does not know how to play as a TEAM and rely on one player to make the plays!The NBA game is not a team sport...it is not the game of basketball. The NBA is made for commercialism. It is sad, but we are not the best anymore. How many more times do we have to lose to realize this? The game in the NBA needs to change. Reflect the international rules. Cut the schedule in half so that players can actually physically play defense. Defense is not played in the NBA regular season. Defense is played in the world's premiere leagues (NFL, English Premiere League, and the NHL). But in the NBA it is not. It is embarrassing. I don't blame Coach K fully, I blame the way we have let companies and TV degrade the game.The US did not "commmit suicide," nor did it lose a game that it was theirs to lose. They came up against a superior team, the reigning European champions, they played as best they could, but lost. Deal with it.
The US needs to do two things: a)Wake up to the fact that European and international basketball has come a long way and b)Be humble.
I'm a Greek living in the US. As many remarked, there are no NBA players on Greece's roster, other than Spanoulis, who is only now headed that way. Instead Greece has a great team of players of skill and humility and Panayotis Yannakis, a great tactician as a coach, who has won the European championship both as a player and as a coach!
What was most interesting was the fact that in 1987, when Greece won their first European championship by defeating the then almighty Soviet Union, we all held our breath hoping that neither of its two stars, Nikos Gallis or Panayotis Yannakis would not be fouled out. This was not so the case with this team, which has about 8 or 9 players of similar value.hello from celebrating Athens.maybe you will not believe it but here in Greece almost everybody was very optimistic for the game against u.s.no one is afraid of you,all your players are great individuals but dont know the fundamentals of the game.tell me a player of your team that can pass like papaloukas or shoot like spanoulis.basketball is brain mostly guys,is not muscles and who can jump over a car.i hope that we will be the world champions against mighty spanish team.greetings to all continue to love and support the great basketball game and start coming back to the basics
panos from athensIf we have Kobe, we win. We shot 58% from the free throw line and could not make the big shots late. Kobe is one of the best free throw shooters in the league and is even better in the clutch both from the line and the field. Also Kobe is the second best perimeter defender in the league so he would have helped tremendously on the defensive end. Not to mention Kobe's father played overseas so he must be familiar with the international game.its all about mentality...Greece is a master of it due to the amazing guard line (Diamantidis,Papaloukas,Spanoulis) who set the pace of the game...The fact that noone plays in the NBA doesnt mean anything..They are STARS in Europe ( Papaloukas is the highest payed European and Coach K can't tell his name!!)
USA will always produce amazing players but as long as NBA is a show-off game,this tragedies will appear on international level...
p.s. Stop calling NBA champs as "World Champs"..its pathetic and fake! (A European basketball fan)I'm French and I think that some comments made above by some (not all) other Europeans are ridiculous: NBA is overrated and/or is not real basketball!?! Please… Personnaly – and I think I'm not the only one in the world outside the U.S. – I much prefer the NBA basketball to the European basketball. I love the "individualist style" of game, who decided basketball HAS to be a certain way? To watch Lebron James play during some games against the Pistons in the latest play-offs and Dwayne Wade against the Mavericks in the finals games is SUCH a thrill! And by the way why should the NBA adopt the FIBA rules and not the other way around? That being said kudos to the Greeks for their great team playing and their shooting skills. But let's organize the World Championship with the NBA rules and see what happens…Team USA need a balance - A couple of superstars...recruit a couple of 6-11, 7 foot role players and an abundance of sharp shooters...I mean Wade, James and Melo can shoot but their not pure shooters like a Larry Bird or Steve Kerr!! Keep the coach but add offences that consist of picks, rolls and backdoors...Athletic Players dont win Championships...Teams do!
Pandamonium:NZ.The US was just thought and out-coached.
The current group are classy people (unlike some predecessors), but fundamentals and smarts with good athletes will beat better athletes with poor fundamentals and a lack of smarts.
Did you see how the Greek big guys could lay it with their left hand when that was an 80% shot and the dunk attempt a 50% shot?
I bet those Greek guys have spent their time doing 500 Mikans with each hand day after day. I'm not sure LeBron has. Boring it may be, but when you need 2 points under pressure and against a smart team, good fundamentals help.The team the US are laying have simply been with each other too long to beat them with a group of individuals like the US had been throwing together for all of the international competitions they have been in so far. I think that now is not the time to panic. Let's wait for another couple years and see what happens in Athens. THEN we'll be able to tell just how good the NBA players can be as a team. After three years together, the core players like LeBron, Melo, and Wade will all know each other even better. Obviously, having better shooting would be nice, but if guys like Joe Johnson and Kirk Hinrich are not getting it done, then that is not our only problem. Like I said, let's give this program the three years it needs to run its course. Until then we won't know just how good this young group can be playing for the national team.As a Greek I am very proud of the achievement our team has accomplished.
I just want to say that it's just a game!
Congratulations to the players of both teams who gave their best trying to win this game.
I liked very much the american team because for the first time they showed a lot less arrogance and they tried to play more as a team -congratulations to coach K.
As Psilakos said: It is the virtue of the defeated, that gives value to the victor.Time and again, it's good to see a classic example of a championship team beating a team of champions. Another one for the kids to learn from.
Of course Coach K can easily fix their poor plays (I'm a big fan of Coach K!), but there's one thing that only the players themselves can fix: attitude. Unless these players adopt the old school approach of "discipline" while playing this wonderful game, the Europeans and South Americans will continue to dominate international basketball.
Back to basics, boys.Simply stop being so arrogant and ignorant. the NBA might be more spectacular than European (international even) basketball, but i hate to remind you that it is a team sport and as such it should be treated. Don't you wonder how Greece managed to get to the Finals of this WC, without having anybody in its roster in the top-30-list of points-per-game-scorers? How come the USA failed for the third consecutive time to win Gold? Were all those three times just flukes, or are they in fact proof that the NBA-style isn't always effective against the now very strong European teams? Is it maybe arrogance, combined with the fact that the US team isn't used to trail matches? Are they used to always win? Do they think they deserve the Gold Medal a priori? I remember Carmelo Anthony in the match against Slovenia, as he was executing free throws, shouting arrogantly: "We got 'em couch, we got 'em". Well yesterday the Greeks got 'em...We don't have our BEST on this team, though even if we did they wouldnt have the cohesiveness that the other foreign teams have. What we do have are dominate player's I.E.- Shaq, Garnett, Duncan, Kobe etc. that should be playing now. Hopefully the boys can get it together so we don't give the chinese something to celebrate and that's the US NOT getting the gold in Beijing!! Somebody help!!!!!!!!Firstly you guys need to realise that the world champs is not an all-star weekend. While thats what many of the international *fans* may want to see, it doesn't win this type of tournament. I've watched the NBA for a long time now and even I can realise that to win matches you need role players, not superstars at every position.
That would be a start.
And you need to breed REAL PASSION in your players to want to wear the singlet. Then and only then will the USA refind its former glory.Stop blaming the lack of wins coming from a team that has spent little time developing together. We need only to observe the Miami Heat who have a retooled roster that spent only a year together, and yet they still won a championship. So what is the problem with the US? Well, the problem is that the international game is simply superior to the NBA's brand of basketball. Even if we invited the international teams to come play on the NBA's turf... they would still dominate. Simply put, the international style of basketball is much more fundamentally sound and superior to the NBA's brand which has always depended on one man shows and statistical overachievers. The bottom line: The NBA game is highly overrated.not having team chemistry due to lack of time preperation may be a valid reason for team USAs stuggles. but not being able to defend a simple pick and roll is simply unacceptable and disgusting. were talking about players who have played thousands of games throughout their careers and i sat watching guys who seemed scared and shellshocked. i watched time and time again as our guys would release their man, giving 10 feet of space only to watch them drill wide open 3s over and over. youd think after a couple of times theyd catch on right? nope. NO DESIRE!!! where was lebrons agression and fire in attacking the rim that he finally decided to showcase in the final seconds of the game? i read all these articles giving excuse after excuse as to whats wrong with US basketball, but in reality no one should touch us. pretty embarrassing if you ask me.The American coach said the solution during the press conference. Be like Greece!!!
Think: A dunk is a 2-point shot. So, it doesn't really matter if you turn 360 degrees and dunk or fly above a car and then dunk; no extra points are won by doing these things. Basketball is not a circus!!!
And NBA is the last few years!
So, when the time comes for the US team to face a team with high IQ, character, self-confidence, the lose should be taken for granted.
Today Greece did not only win. The Greeks won easily!
And something else: Greece, for the very first time in the history of the basketball,made defensive play fascinating. The players, by combining the show-off with the result of their efforts, taught a new way to play basket and win the games.
Finally, this should be a good lesson for the States for the arrogant attitude of most of its players.Greetings from Spain:
I think the first problem is that US team believes strongly that they are the best ones, so, they think everything is gonna be all right without working hard.
The second problem is that US coaches and players have forgotten what basketball is. The legs and arms are important in basketball, but the most important is the brain.
The third problem: the players are still a group of stars, not a TEAM.
If you fix those things you will smash any team in the Earth.
If that doesn´t work you can always call Ginobili, Parker, Gasol, Nowitzki, Papaloukas,Navarro,Scola...
Go SPAIN!Dont you know that soccer is the best sport?? And usa has awful team in soccer~~but not say as excuse that americans only want to be good to other sports.. Footbal rules...
And about your defeat from my country, i want to say that nba is the best championship and all of our players could play in..
dont they?
In the end, america team play very good, just greeks is better in that time..and we will show our power in the final!!
Viva GReecE~~
Viva 2004-2006 (3 cups in international sports)
make love not war..If anything, Greece proved they are a better team at "international basketball." Can someone please explain why basketball rules were changed for international play? It's to even the odds for foreign teams. I think foreign teams are now too good to give them a handicap. Would it be fair for the USA to have a world football(soccer) championship and change the rules to favor our athletes? I'm sure a few countries would be outraged.It's the high school, college, AA coaches fault. All they teach is cross-overs, spins, alley-oops, & dunks. No jump shooting. No proper defensive stance, spacing. No fundamentals at all. We glorify the highlight reel but often overlook the basics of the game. It all boils down to money. More highlights on TV, more news. Sorry, nothing US basketball can do about it now. Maybe the rest of the world will fall to that level too in the future.People are being ridiculous. I cannot understand this mentality that the United States should win every tournament, or place high in every tournament, because they have the best athletes or the most talented players. Basketball is and has always been a team sport. This year we made a step in the right direction by taking unselfish, coachable young players to the tournament. (People talking about the supposed egos of Dwayne Wade or James are also being ridiculous. Wade volunteered to come off the bench, and James was perfectly content to defer to Carmelo, who was playing better than he was.)
The primary reason the United States lost, is because the rest of the world is better than we give them credit for. Greece is -far- from a bad ball club, and should be taken very seriously.
The second reason the United States lost, is because we made mistakes. We couldn't defend the Pick and Roll, and we couldn't hit free throws. If you look at the final score of this game, you can clearly see that missed free throws played a major role in losing the game. The breakdown the United States had was nothing surprising or out of the ordinary. Nights like this happen every week in the NBA, but the games just aren't as important as the FIBA Semi-finals. Greece shot an extremely impressive game from behind the arc. Two missed three point shots by Greece could have changed the outcome of this game. This was not a 20 point route, this was a tough, hard-fought game, and the team that was playing better that night won. If FIBA were a best of 7 series, like the NBA playoffs, the United States would have stood a better shot at winning.
In hindsight, some of the things that the United States did wrong were trivial. The lack of defense on the Pick and Roll is inexcuseable, and the Free Throw shooting was abysmal, but I think we did pretty dang well, considering that the team had a mere 3 weeks to adjust to each other.
Coach K did a good job, but he could do a few things better if he really wants to improve his performance. For one, I don't think enough Free Throw drills were ran using the FIBA ball. It is commonly known that it is more slippery than the NBA ball, and any physical change of the ball would impact free throws. I believe that if they practice every summer with the FIBA ball, the United States will play better in future tournaments. In addition, players selected to play in international competition should shoot free throw drills with FIBA balls, in addition to normal NBA balls. I understand that this is a lot of work, but these players understand that they have made a serious commitment by joining the Senior Men's National Team. (As a side note, I would also use a college ball, the old NBA ball, and maybe even some bizarre things like Soccer balls, too. I would practice with various levels of ball inflation. All NBA players, not just the Senior National players, should consider this. Practicing more than just what they will work with will strongly encourage a better development of shooting reflexes in all circumstances.)
Coach K made a crucial mistake in this game that I see far too often in this sport. He refused to play his bench when things weren't working with the players he had on the floor. I would have played Brad Miller or Antawn Jamison for a minute or two, to see how he responded to the Greeks. This should not be a radical idea. I am not personally the largest fan of Miller or his being on the Senior Men's team, but he is a talented player, he was available to the game, and the other big men the United States had on the floor were not playing well in this game. Play the game back in your mind. Howard played well in the first half, but where was he in the second half? Bosh was also a huge non-factor. Elton Brand was similarly ineffective. I am not sure if Jamison played in the game, and I am certain that Miller did not. Substituting one of them in for the big men on the floor is basically a free roll for the United States. They had nothing to lose at this point, and perhaps they could have gained something. Perhaps one of those two players could have made more shots on the offensive end. Miller is an 80% Free Throw Shooter. Maybe he could have helped correct the United States' poor showing in this category. An unwillingness to use talented players, because they are not your "best" players, is the same reason why the Detroit Pistons were crushed in this year's Eastern Conference Finals. When your star players are not working, you must be willing to bench them for your role-players. This is valuable time the star players may use to rest, collect themselves, and perhaps listen to insights other players or their coach may have on the current game. Meanwhile, the subs might just be hungry enough to make a difference in the ball game. It baffles me how some coaches do not recognize this valuable principle. When one player is not producing, it makes no sense to not play a different player, who might not produce. If they don't produce, then so what? You are giving up nothing to get nothing. That is a fair trade. A willingness to bench more talented players is the reason why an undersized, underaged Chicago Bulls ball club has made it to the playoffs in the past few years. It is the reason why they will make the playoffs again this year. (Yes, they'd do it without Big Ben.)
Finally, and this is just nitpicking, I think a tiny reason the United States lost is because Hinrich fouled out. I'm not blaming Kirk, because he recognized that his team needed to foul, when his closer team-mate (I don't remember who) did not. Hinrich is one of the USA's better three point shooters, and the Hinrich/Paul combination is perhaps the best defensive tandem we had. The other player on the court should have recognized that the United States needed to foul, and done it himself. Instead, the US lost one of their better three point shooters (Anthony missed) and one of their better defenders. This is a terrible blow in the last minute of a game. (Hinrich, for his part, also made several mistakes earlier in the game, but they were clearer errors that I believe have already been noticed. I wanted to make sure that this final detail did not go unheralded, because every error adds up in the end. The only man on the United States club who does not share in this loss is Brad Miller, unless he deliberately asked not to play minutes in the game.)
In closing, I think that the United States gave a solid effort in a game against one of the premier teams in the entire world. Numerous, small mistakes, the sort of things you can never completely be free of, ultimately spelled the end of our dreams of a gold medal. The future is probably bright for our young team, assuming they continue to work hard and practice with each other as much as possible in the offseason. Hopefully, in 2008, we will be bolstered by the presence of Chauncy Billups and Micheal Redd. Even then, when all the work is done, and we have more gears in our Basketball Machine, we may still not win a gold medal, because the rest of the world is more talented and professional than we give them credit for.
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VeryslightlymadThe problem with the game was that Coach K. didnt know what to do. This was obvious because the Greeks did the pick and role time and time again, and K. didn't know how to tell his players how to adapt. With the youthful and talented line up he has he could have definatly played better. The first 10 minutes of the game, the USA was looking almost untouchable on defence. This all broke down and Coach K. didn't step in and keep the intensity up. With a young team like this, I think that Roy Williams would have been more experienced by coaching the Tarheels in 2005. You can not change the line up now, but the players could have been instructed better. LeBron James dominated most of the NBA, but could not show any resemblence while playing against Greece. D. Wade is also one of the leagues most dominate players, and he could not show anything. This is because the NBA is filled with very talented players, that work alone. When you have a PLAYER versus a TEAM then the team will always win. A team like Greece.Team U.S i do agree shot way to many threes, and they can't guard the pick and role to save their life. In the semi, Diwght Howard needed more minutes, Greece couldnt stop him inside, and he played very well in the first half. The second half was terrible! The last five on the court wasn't doing anything. They were a mix of Gurads and small forwards. Lebron did nothing the entire tournament, yet in the last 24 seconds of the semi final he drove the lane with ease for the monster dunk, which he could have done when he wanted to but chose to sit back and do nothing. Melo was by far the best player for the U.S he played consitently throughout the entire tournament. In 2008 they need to get a few more bigs guys (and actually use them), get some long bombers and NEED TO LEARN HOW TO GUARD A PICK AND ROLL!!!!!!I agree with one of the people here, is that maybe they should send the best NCAA team to this tournament (rules are similar), or else send a team more fit to the international game. Everything is just different in international ball like everyone here says. The 3 biggest rules being the trapezoidal lane (Tim Duncan should not play at all), 3 point arc (shorter and utilized much more often than NBA), and zone defense (never seen by NBA players since college days). Another thing to think about as well is that the NBA season is long and grueling including the 7 game series in the playoffs. Players in the other leagues don't put in as much time and are less fatigue so that they can put more effort into these tournaments. Other leagues in the world play a shorter game (40 mins), less games, and are use to this one and done games (similar to the NCAA tournament), which is why these international guys pace themselves less and go all out each and every game (shorter games, less games). What you have to remember is most NBA players pace themselves during the regular season and even in the playoffs. If the playoffs are not one and done, you definitely need to pace yourself because its a marathon. Aside from that I don't think sending the most talented team applies anymore. They should definitely keep the big 3 (Lebron, Wade, and Carmelo) and build around them. Get more specialists and role players. Get the shooters (especially the big men), the defensive players, the passers and playmakers, the big men to rebound and block shots, and build the team around these 3 talents. We definitely don't need too many all stars or scorers. The other thing someone mentioned on here is that whoever represents the USA have got want it more than anyone else. Players in the USA need to reprioritize their goals, and their priorities currently from most important to least, are league championship (NBA) first and foremost, Olympic gold, and then World Championship of Basketball. I guarantee you that most international players priorities are: World Championship, league championship and Olympic gold. Why our priorities are different than theirs, who knows? As many changes that have been made to USA basketball, there appears to be many more to be made to be the best again.Does anyone think Greece, or any other team for that matter, could beat the NBA champions in a real basketball game? Not a international b-ball game with international rules, but a genuine basketball game. I doubt it would be a close game.First off, Team USA didn't lose to Greece becuase Kobe or Garnett or any other all star wasn't there. They already have enough all stars on the team. You think adding more all stars to a team is going to make them a better team? Think again. Team USA needed more role players. Players like Shane Battier and Kirk Hinrich were starting for the US. Why? Because they were the ones who played the game the right way and would make the right decisions. If we added more all stars to the team then the "team players" don't make the team. What you then have is a bunch of players going one on one against a defense that knows Team USA's offensive weakness which is shooting. Oh wait, my bad that happened again with this team. If you see where the US screwed up on offense, it's when they would make two needless passes and then somebody would decide to screw the passing the ball concept and settle for a highly contested layup or fadeaway. (Adding Kobe would only increase this people.) That's why Team USA needed more role players who would go set picks and move off the ball. (You didn't see LeBron doing too much of that.) Also on defense, they would gamble too often when playing for the steal. The international teams are very smart and it seemed like they always took advantage when given the oppurtunity like they're supposed to. They need just to play smart defense and then you wouldn't see so many open shots. One last thing. You noticed how we screwed up the pick n' roll. The US needs to find a mobile big man who can help out on the pick n' roll so we don't let deadly sharpshooters kill us with wide open, uncontested treys. If Amare comes back at 85% or better, this problem is solved.Heads Up!! A spectacular dunk is worth 2 points; a quick penetration is worth 2 points; the same 2 points that is worth a jumper after the ball is being touched by all the team players (as Europe teams do); and a good 3 point shooting % gives you an edge over dunks and spectacular individual plays. International teams are masters of passing the ball until a good shot is found, and they are better 3 point shooters than the US players are (just see the list of better shooters of the NBA, it is full of int'l players). Once again, showmanship do not translate in winning games; efficiency does translate in winning games. Not even mention defense and fundamentals. US has lost his focus on this.Granted the Gap between US and othe basketball nation is ever so small now. However, bad Coaching cost US the game. Dwright howard should play more minutes. He dominated low post early especially in offensive rebound and US build 12 points. He hardly played after that. During late second and early third, Greece went inside , there was no US defense inside.
There is a misconception of international game. There were talks about international game is outside game. Big man shooting 3s. The fact is Greece has very good low post player. This US is short on low post player and the biggest guy on this US team, D. Howard only play 13 minute. He is also the rest rebound in this competition. I know US would do better with better shoots. Still with defense like that, it hard to win against international top team. Defense and rebounding is still the recipe for championship. There are not enough of them on this team. The good defender Battier did not much either in this game.I really think the USA team right now has enough firepower already, WADE, MELO and LEBRON are already very big names, adding another KOBE would surely further disrupt the offensive teamwork of this team, what the USA lacks is the TEAMWORK, COHESIVENESS, DEFENSIVE SKILLS, spot up shooters, more plays and more training, that's it.
Team Greece beat Team USA not because of dominant players, but because of their dominant teamwork strategy, they beat USA through one basic element : "FUNDAMENTALS" (pick and rolls, man to man, zone defense, great passing, and great shooting)The US team should continue theor basketball program, get a cohesive team running and get the shooters to play for them like a JJ Reddick or a Ray Allen or whoever can shoot and defend at the same time. Get Bigger, mobile & athletic guys as well like KG, Tim D etc.. Fact is, they (USA) are on the right track. Patience is a virtue...Better atheletes?
Greece has a population of
10million people, yet they win
- at 2004 Euro Soccer Champs
-2005 Euro Basketball champs
-2006 either Champions or second best at Worlds in Basketball
- per capita they won the most gold medals and most medals ever at the 2004 Olympics, in the history of the Olympics
-top 10 in the world in Vollyball
-top 3 world in Water Polo
-worlds fastest 'White"sprinter
-"pound for pound" the worlds strongest men in weighlifting
Understand athletically what they produce on the world stage, at various athletic events, and look at their tiny population base, and one comes to the conclusion that
a) tremendous heart
b) tremendous athletes
The Greeks are the real deal.
They have targeted "swimming" as the new sport within 10 years which they intend to compete at the highest levels.
The Americans will see their swim totals decline, that's for sure.
Remember 10 million citizens.
Think about that!There are five people who should be blame why the USA team loses to Greece.
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Allen Iverson,
3. Shaquille O’Neal
4. Tim Duncan
5. Kevin Garnettthe u.s. squad will be fine....amare and kobe and chauncey will be there for the olympics and thats all that matters...but it would of been nice if they had say tayshaun prince or rasheed wallace to be on the team...or kg....starting five for olympics... billups,kobe,lebron,elton brand,amare...kobe is the main scorin option elton brand is jump shootin pf and amare can clean up boards and shotblocker...and plus 2 more years will only make all these young players better...specially wade and lebronNo reason to panic even though Team USA lost to Greece, I still believe that the program is on the right track, I suggest that Coach K should maintain the 3 main core of the team, that's MELO, LEBRON and WADE and just make some slight modifications for the upcoming 2008 Olympics, so as not to disrupt the chemistry that they have developed, what Coach K has to do is to further develop his system, learn from his experience at WCOB, add a pure shooter (Ray Allen), add one big low post player (Duncan or Garnet), add some more offensive and defensive plays, more training, and please, don't forget the basic element, "FUNDAMENTALS", forget the dunks, please, practice the 3-ball and the free throws! And they should win the Gold in Beijing...Where's the glory in beating up on a group of And-One, insanely-paid entertainers? I don't see any.
Someone had suggested the adoptation of international rules for the NBA. What are you trying to do? Get our scoring down into the 60's and burst our collective bubble? How rude!While its great that everyone here has some sort of solution to Team USA's recent slump in international competition... I think the solution lies squarely on the players who are on the floor themselves... How long will it take these guys to realise that outside of Carmelo Anthony, Elton Brand and Dwight Howard... no one played with a single ounce of heart. Michael Jordan didnt just score 30+ points on you... but he got offended if you even scored a single one on him. This group... and alot of NBA players for that matter... rely on athleticism and 1 on 1 skills to get the job done. Its about time they realised that this game needs fundamental skill and abit of ticker (heart) to get the job done. It was embarrasing how easily some of the greeks got to the basket... without an ounce of help defense to be seen until the ball had gone through the hoop! And the pick and roll defense... don't even get me started!!! Its not that they dont know how to defend it... they are just too lazy. It's about time Team USA showed some HEART and imposed their will on the best teams rather than the minnows.i really feel bad for the usa players who worked hard, kept their heads up, played to the best of their ability, and were proud of the USA jersey. they were let down by a coaching staff & front office that didn't do their jobs. shame on you coach k for not being able to adjust your d to stop the pick and roll, and for letting your players run that shambles of an offense. shame on you for (apparently) not scouting enough to know the names of your opponents. and most of all, shame on you coach k for buying into the nba star mentality. much as i hate duke, they get the most out of their players, which can't be said for coach k's team today.I dont understand the logic behind forcing Chris Paul and Kirk Hinrich to play extensive minutes in the Greece game. They had size advantage. Change the lineup, and create mismatches for Greece. We should have had Lebron running point, with Wade at the 2, Melo at the 3, Brand at the 4, and Howard at the 5. With this lineup together for at least 25 minutes, there would be no contest. Coach forced his lineups in there without thinking about where the advantages were. They had to be smarter and play with a bigger lineup, especially since Greece was a slow team.Everyone needs to relax. The US was undefeated until losing to Greece. Greece just shot the lights out.
If it was a five or seven game series I believe the US wins easily.
There is nothing wrong with NBA basketball. Believe it or not one on one isolations take tremendous basketball skills. The current incarnation of the NBA is a defensive league vs the offensive league of the 70's and 80's. Many NBA players are highly skilled at defense and offense.
Other countries national teams may have played together longer, but its not that much longer. Most of the players play in other professional leagues.
The new reality for the US to face is the rest of the world has caught up to the US in athletic talent. Greece was not only a highly skilled team but a team of great athletes. It is amazing that the guy called "baby Shaq" has not been signed by any NBA team.Just get the best Americans who play overseas and get the best American coach who is employed in the European circuit.I find it funny that some people are calling for Kobe to be in future teams. Kobe represents exactly what is wrong in American basketball. He is all about himself and not caring about team play. Kobe would be digging the hole deeper.
And stop saying this was not the best US team possible. Nobody picked the team for the US. Next time send whoever you think best and we'll see if it is good enough. And keep whining and making excuses.This is the EXACT reason why Kobe needed to be on this team. Kobe would have carried this team against Greece until the rest of the team got their act together.
As much as I dislike his selfish play, Kobe, more than anyone in the league, refuses to lose games. He simply runs out of time.The game in the U.S struggles with the 3 core skills of basketball. Passing, shooting and rebounding. Passing and shooting the most notable. Kids are brought the system these days purely on athleticism, with getting to the hoop and dunking on somebody seemingly the only pre-requisites to becoming a star in the NBA.
Europeans are much better technically, and are much better in the art of playing as a team creating oppurtunities for whoever it may be on the court, not just the 1 star as it is in the NBA.The reason the U.S. lost is because of poor coaching and 4 bad players.
Brad Miller, Hinrich, Battier, Jamison.
Take these 4 bums off the team and find one or two shooters and rebounders and the U.S. will win by 30 pts everytime. Also, the U.S. should quit sending players like Brad Miller. Why was he on the team in the first place.
Bowen should have never been cut. You when games with good guard play and Battier and Miller don't qualify. Hinrich doesn't either. And who is Jamison???
I truly believe Kobe, Bowen, Mcgrady, and Rip should replace the bums I listed above and this kind of stuff would never happen. If Phil Jackson , Pat Riley, Greg Popovich or Avery Johnson was coaching. Why??? Because they know how to adjust. If something is not working they know what to do. Duke's coach doesn't ala L.S.U. Enough said.Its funny to see how the US team lost and people keep writing here that the NBA its the best league in the world. NBA its a business where only money its important, you whant a change? change the mentality of the players. You think that Carmelo sit down and watch a video of the greeck team, no way, open the game to the world, put the NBA champ to play agains the European Champ to get a real "world champ" change the concept that only guards can shoot threes, in Europe Centers Shoot 3 points all the time,
Stop the business and bring the hearth back inIm still disappointed about team U.S. losing. i thought couch K did an amazing job seeing that hes a college coach. I just wish some of them asst. coaches wouldve helped more in the greece game. What coach NBA coach stays with man to man defense when the pick and roll and easy lay ups is losing them the game. Dont they usually switch to zone when their giving up too many inside points. I also think that the players took the game to lightly. After the first quater they were looking for the easy win until greece came back half way throw the quarter. I just hope they can learn from this and reclaim what the U.S. so many years ago THE GOLD.How can you possibly say U.S. players are more skilled than the Europeans? When I was 12-years-old I was convinced the Globe Trotters could beat the Celtics because Meadowlark and Curly and Goose were more skilled -- hell, neither Bob Cousey nor Bill Russell ever made a shot by bouncing it off the floor. Of course, the Celtics would have killed the Trotters because Red's guys had the right skills.
Thus today. Were basketball decided by style points for dunking the ball, Team USA would have won in a walk. I didn't see a single Greek hang on the rim after a dunk. They obviously were not as skillful at dunking. But, the Greeks won going away because they had the right skills -- shooting, passing, defense -- and Team USA doesn't.Kobe Bryant was the missing link in the last two world championships. The guy is a smart player and is fundamentally sound. He's the most fundamentally sound of all the superstars and the most tenancious defender of all the superstars. Only player in the NBA to make All Defensive 1st team and All NBA first team is Kobe Bryant.
We win against Greece with Kobe. More importantly, we never come close to losing with Kobe because he elevates the play of the people around his, especially superstars. Watch, we'll win the gold in the olympics no problem and Kobe will be a major reason why. Embrace the Dark Side!The other countries are sending their greatest players out there so it's simple send the greatest nba players today in the international competitions!
1. pg - dwyane wade
2. g - kobe bryant
3. c - shaq oneil
4. sf - lebron james
5. pf - kevin garnett
6. pg - allen iverson
7. g - tracy mcgrady
8. c - tim duncan
9. sf - carmelo anthony
10. pf - dwight howard
11. g - vince carter
12. pf - amare stoudemire
Now who can match this kind of lineup?When the NBA stops having one player shoot 25 free throws on his way to a 43 point night and teach the players to play real team basketball, the NBA will win the gold medal .We need a take charge point guard who lets his team know that he's not going to take any crap right from the start. Paul is good but isn't enough of a leader yet. We need a Avery Johnson type point guard. Like Sam Cassell. He's layed down some of the buggest of egos and always gets the best out of his teammates. We also need Shaq down low. Brad Miller isn't physically intimidating enough to fit our desired style.I followed every game the US has played in WOCB, and one thing I noticed lacking in the GREECE game where they were tested, really really tested, is that, no one in the team is dependable enough to be there in the clutch.
Dwane Wade is only best when they are running, Carmelo is good, when they are leading, and James hits nothing and has a defense that is none existent.
There are only two guys in there that really showed promise. Cris Paul and Dwight Howard. But they are not clutch players...
Only KOBE can give the US that, add Billups second.. and you have what it takes to bring the GOLD.I agree with the comment to send any NBA team with one exception, please DO NOT SEND ATLANTA HAWKS!It's not that complicated...How about, and I know, this is a novel idea, sending our best players? If we have Chris Paul, Kobe, Lebron, Garnet, and Shaq as a starting lineup, and Hinrich, Wade, Redd, Ray Allen, Duncan, Ben Wallace, Greg Oden off the bench we beat Greece easily. It is sickening to continually hear the smugness of international players/fans talking about how the rest of the world has caught up when that is simply not true. If we send our best players we dominate, it is really that simple...I am dismayed by the lack of defense the US team exert. Wade and Lebron were just awful in that department. they couldn't even defend the high pick-and-roll. And Bosh was too too soft on the inside. They got bullied inside by a baby shaq... And all they could do was whine, especially Lebron.
We need tougher players, like KOBE, and RON ARTEST who are not afraid to mix it up and goes after everyloose ball. The US team were very slow to the ball, as evident in there game against Brazil.I can't stand the comments that the NBA is the most skillful league in the world (I consider shooting a major skill in basketball!!). I agree that it’s the most athletic, but the game in the US has turned into more about showtime and individual players than actual team cohesion. I think it’s insulting and arrogant that the NBA each year promotes the champions as the "World Champions" when clearly they are NOT (based on world championship performances over the last 4 years). Team USA will benefit greatly by showing respect to international basketball and the way it’s played, because clearly the NBA style can't produce results in big games. We must all remember that there are 5 guys on the court working as 1 instead of 5 guys working as 5 individuals.Michael Redd didn't play because he was getting married. This is way more important than a game of basketball.
He would have been in for sure because they missed his three point shooting.* Start focusing on team play in NBA, instead of individuals. Although everyone always talks about 'team', in the end the media, audience, owners and players check out the scoring, rebounding and assist averages. These players also receive the best contracts. Change this and you start creating TEAMS. Greece had 7-8 guys scoring between 7-11 poings (average), passing, playing defence.
* Start respecting other nations - so far you managed to recognise other people only through the US lenses (i.e. they are good only because they develope their skills playing in NBA, not every good thing originates in the US, believe it or not. Open your eyes, respect others and start learning (this applies to everything else than basketball as well)
* Star teaching funamentals again and try to restore the NCAA system (of players staying 4 years in Uni, as MJ, Bird, Magic & co did)
* Try to have more fair and equal society, so that people feel great to live in that society and represent their country and its values. Now your sports is based on money, which naturally causes that many good players are first and foremost intersted in money above all other things.
* Let Coach K continue his work. These guys have committed themselves and most of them lost as great people do (I must admit that my respect to Carmelo increased greatly during this tournament and especially the way he took the loss&respected Greece team. This is the way to start building new successful US team around great characters.Hire a different coach. I bet Phil Jackson's triangle offense would deal great damage against the europeans. It would force the players to play specific roles in the triangle offense and move the ball. No more 5 vs 1 isolation plays so the europeans can feast on one player at a time.Let’s look back on that unbearable game to figure out what went wrong. US looked lost on offense (something I blame Coach K for). Greece hit shots after shots during that 14-0 stretch and the entire second half. US shot free throws like Shaq (with good free throw shooters like Wade and Lebron). Everybody has some off days. When Spurs lose to the Bobcats, does that mean that Bobcats are a better team? No. Do I think that Greece has a great team and outplayed US? Hell yes. Do I think that US could beat them in a 7-game series? Most definitely. It was one game, give them a break.
Comments regarding the talent level of the team such as adding Kobe or whoever are ridiculous. If Wade, Lebron and Anthony weren’t enough, how is Kobe going to help? The US has no teamwork? Do I have to remind you that Chris Paul broke the record for assists for US?
The concept of this team is definitely working, US just needs to play with a little more passion and heart, like they do when going for that NBA championship (please don’t ever call it world championship again, it’s embarrassing)and some time. But why aren’t players more eager to join this team? T-Mac, ppl in asia will love you way more if you won the gold with team USA than going on some damn tour.Let's see, Colangelo says he's builing a team and picks 11 all stars and one role player, so whos doing the dirty work here people lebron or wade? second they talk about versatilty, where're our damn shooters, perimeter players. the last one (Gilbert) was cut. Morrison and Reddick are home or where ever else. how do you win games when 90% of your players in the so called team HAS to have the ball in their hands for atleast 12 secs. to make anything happen. This "team" could not by far be called the Dream Team or even a TEAM b/c: no shooters, no role players, no fundamental skills (all flash which only good in rucker park these days anyways) and most of all no VET. LEADERS!! uh Duncan, KG what a selection coach K and Colangelo!!Please. Don't look down on other countries. Come out and play as if the mountain's ahead of you.
And learn to shoot better jump shots!!! Teamwork will come with the 3-year commitment.1. Pass the ball
2. Bring in more shooters
3. Call plays
4. It's okay to believe in your capabilities...but you also have to believe in God.coach k lost the gold since the day he has lost his k {kobe} kobe is always not happy when he falls to win a game .that why coach was a loser he forgets his k at home.please get your k and go back to work.remember you want to build your on k .good luck k.Who cares about athleticism?
Athleticism will always lose to fundamentals...ask Wooden. Substance beats style again and again and again. A 360 dunk counts the same as a 18 footer.
Let's put the scrubs out there who don't have egos. We'll assemble a real team, and we won't be embarrassed if we lose.
I agree with the people who say that the U.S. Team needs to move better without the ball. Bringing in a few shooting specialists (like Ray Allen) who could make both three pointers and free throws would help too.It is not a question of talent, or teamwork, or athleticism. The reason the United States does not win in international play is an issue of commitment. International play is just not a high priority in America. The NBA championship is. What the U.S. presents in international play is what's leftover after the NBA season has finished. It's voluntary (does not pay), and the team is thrown together at the last minute once everyone figures out who still has the energy to play. Those who do decide to play must still remember their priorities. What will happen to the Miami Heat if Dwyane Wade blows out his knee while playing internationally? And how much energy will these players have left for the regular season if they put it all out there during the world championships, which is supposed to be their resting period.
Of course some people mention putting a full NBA team out there... even go as far as suggesting the NBA champs go. Does anybody seriously think the Miami Heat as a whole will want to turn around and fly across the world to play basketball all summer after having just played over 100 games this season? And how much of a disadvantage would that give them in the upcoming season, when the entire team is exhausted from international play.
So the original question was "what can be done to solve the U.S.A.'s problems at the world championships?"
The answer is nothing. Nothing can be done because it is not a priority for the NBA to do so. The money is in the regular season. The fans are in the regular season. The NBA is about the regular season. If the world has become good enough at our game that we cannot beat them with our leftovers, our vacationing superstars, then so be it. But if Greece (or any other national team) really thinks they've caught up, let them go a season in the NBA. Let them go against fully rested, fully motivated NBA teams that play as a cohesive unit. I'll bet you a few Euros they won't make the playoffs.Just got my 450 euros from the bet i had placed for greece to win at half time and full time!
I was more than sure than we , the greeks were going to win the US. The last 2 years we are building our TEAM. Coach Yiannakis used to put songs in the dressing room than said, all for one and one for all, and that is the spirit of the team.
There is no one player than the game will be build around him, but onlt ONE team exists.
The problem with uSA was that you seemed to be so unorganised. Wade or Lebron took the ball, they tried one on one, if no good they gave the ball out for 3 pointers. That was it. No offence system at all.And by the way thank god your coach left that Howard on bench , when he was in , he was all over us.
And to be honest i don't care if you have better players in the US that stayed back. The point is that Greece National Team has proven that it is better than the US team. If players stayed behind thinking about $$$ instead of their nation, that is none of our business.
Sunday night Greece and Cyprus will burn from the celebrations!!What the US basketball team lacks is attitude and true love of the game. Basketball is and will always be a team game. You all know that even in the NBA a single player minded team can not win championships. US basketball stars should start learning how to shoot the ball properly and play fundamental basketball. The skill set is there, the attitude is missing! Clue for winning... next time the US sends its best players, make sure they have a leader as well. A bunch of corporals don't win a war they need a general!Someone above wrote: "Truly a pathetic showing. I could almost accept a gold medal game loss to Spain or Argentina, but a loss to Greece?"
Why? Is Greece chopped liver? Greece is the defending European Champion (Spain is a part of Europe too so that implies that Greece was better than Spain). The Greek basketball league is one of the best pro leagues outside the USA and many Greek club teams have gone on to win the Euroleague championship in the past, just as many Greek players have made big contributions to other European clubs.
Is it because there are no NBA names on the Greek team? Perhaps that's a matter which NBA scouts need to look hard at, why have Greek players been ignored? Papaloukas was the Euroleague MVP last year. Diamantidis was the defensive player of the year. Yiannakis is known as one of the top coaches, and was quite a player about 15-20 years ago. These guys are on the caliber of any more well known international star.
Is it because Greece plays truly as a team? Where the leading scorer averages just 13 points? Where there are no primadonnas who fight for who will get the most shots, the flashiest dunks, the most time on camera? Is it because they were truly proud of their country and playing for the uniform and not just an endorsement deal? Is that why it's so hard to stomach?
Someone else mentioned 65% shooting. Where was Team USA's defense? Most of that shooting came from open layups and dunks, even transition play, as well as open three's and mid-range jumpers. The truth is, after the first quarter, the game was all Greece. Even during Team USA's final comeback, Greece did not lose its composure, hit clutch baskets, hit their free throws, and played smart (allowing an easy layup rather than stopping the clock with a foul and risking an offensive rebound, which, with the way the Americans were shooting their free throws, was very possible).
Did you see the switching on defense? The help defenders? The textbook pick and roll on offense? The ball movement? How many players touched the ball on each possession for Greece? How there were so few bad shots? Did you see how difficult it was for Team USA to get into the lane? To even hit a free throw?!?!!? I mean, that's grade-school level basketball.
Does anyone really think Kobe's services would have made that much of a difference? Another me-first ball hog primadonna who would rather be somewhere else than playing basketball against unheralded opponents in the summer. Would Kobe provide the intangibles? The defense (under international rules)? Would his presence somehow alter the rest of the team's free throw shooting to improve? Did Greece need Kobe Bryant or a player close to his individual athletic ability and scoring prowess to win? Did Argentina, Puerto Rico, Italy, Lithuania, Serbia, or Spain need someone like Kobe when they defeated Team USA in the past?
Don't you think that saying that Kobe is the solution just falls back into that trap, that me-first mentality? That one man would make such a difference? Heck, Greece's leading scorer from last year's Eurobasket, Nikos Zizis, was injured and not playing. Did that derail Greece? Not a chance.
The best TEAM wins, plain and simple. That's why the Pistons defeated Kobe and Shaq's (and Karl's and Gary's and Phil Jackson's) Lakers in the finals. That's what made the difference between Michael Jordan's Bulls in 1987 and Michael Jordan's Bulls in 1997, team play. That's why Greece won and followed in the footsteps of the other nations I mentioned just above.
Oh, and just a quick history lesson, as Greece is no basketball backwater. Greece won the European Championship in 1987, was the finalist in 1989. Reached the bronze metal match in the WCOB in 1994 and 1998 and was the first team to hold an American squad composed of NBA players under 100 points. Greece finished 5th in the world in the Olympics in 1996 and 2004 and lost a close one to Team USA then (I remember Tim Duncan, arguably the "best player" in the world at the time, being rather ordinary in that tournament, and getting it in the face from the likes of Lazaros Papadopoulos). Greece of course won the European Championship last year, beating Dirk Nowitski's Germany convincingly in the final and France with Tony Parker (twice) before that. Greece finished 6th in the world in the WCOB of 1990 with the likes of Yannakis and Nikos Galis (a star at Seton Hall in the 70's, and one of the very best European players never to play in the NBA, despite being drafted by the Celtics in 1979). The guy could score at will despite usually being the shortest man on the court, and led Greece to victory over teams such as Yugoslavia, which at the time featured a young Divac, Petrovic, et al. To top it all off, Greece even won the World under-21 championship in 1995, defeating the USA in the final convincingly, and has seen similar successes since then. Kakiouzis, Greece's team captain, was on that squad, while the USA squad featured future NBAers including Marbury.
Is that enough? Because there's plenty more where that came from.
Congratulations to Spain as well for their victory today and to Argentina as well for the great ball they've played as well...those are two more shining examples of quality players and team play.As a european brought up in Chapel Hill, NC and currently living in europe I think most people on this blog are missing the point. It´s not about stats, names, coaches, rules, etc... It´s simply lack of team play and managing different role plays on both sides of the court. ESPAÑA CAMPEON!how on earth do u expect to win against a zone, havin no 3-point shooters on court? Zone dfense needs lightning fast thinkin and veery good passing in order to be dismantled if u lack a good 3-point shooter. Yannakis is probably the smartest coach ever. U can ask coach K ....Well if I remember well Basketball is a team game TEAM..
NO individual US player will ever be any ONE team ..
I really laughed seeing Wade going after dunks at the last seconds with only 4 points down, and his cauch souting for three-pointers. All the Greek team were just making way and laughing.
You emphsize so much on physical ability and skill that you loose the point of te game, I thik you should go back to your 1 on 1 or even 3 on 3 games and leave baskeball to the teams ...The main difference is that the Europeans or other international teams are fundamentally sound compared to the US 'entertainers'.
I agree with a comment earlier, that these European teams (argentina, spain, greece)can easily beat the best the NBA teams.That game separates the men from the boys. The age of the US team shows their liability in pressure games. I hope in the Beijing Olympics, they will be mature enough to play like a seasoned warrior!Balance is what's needed, its good to have Anthony, James and Dwade on the team but playing all three at the same time is not wise to create a winning team chemistry.
The switching man to man defense used during most of the game by the US team, created lots of open look opportunities, split second open lanes and a lot of other stuff which the greece team saw and capitalized on time and time again. The US team also forgot that they can draw charges, block the driving lane and use other fundamental defensive skills aside from trying to block shots mid-air.
The only statistic which the US team lead by, was the number of spectacular dunks! Showtime mentality will kill the US team's hopes of ever getting another international championship.No shame in losing to a solid team. Any good team can be beat in a one and out contest against a hot team on any given day. The only shame is in missing so many free throws and 3's. Team USA needs the 3 "S"s more Seasoning, more Shooters and better Scouting. They need to know what every player/team likes to do and divise ways to counter what they like to do best.Balance is what's needed, its good to have Anthony, James and Dwade on the team but playing all three at the same time is not wise to create a winning team chemistry.
The switching man to man defense used during most of the game by the US team, created lots of open look opportunities, split second open lanes and a lot of other stuff which the greece team saw and capitalized on time and time again. The US team also forgot that they can draw charges, block the driving lane and use other fundamental defensive skills aside from trying to block shots mid-air.
The only statistic which the US team lead by, was the number of spectacular dunks! Showtime mentality will kill the US team's hopes of ever getting another international championship.Bravo Anonymous 10:04 AM, September 01, 2006.
People speaking of outside shooters Kobe and rules are looking at the effect instead of the cause. USA has allowed _greeks_ to score 100, that would be 120 in a 48min game. It's the same greeks that consistently score 60-65 against somewhat weaker Russia or Israel.
This means: UNPREPARED. Perhaps coach even had some videos of greeks playing, but I'm sure nobody watched. Cause they're all up there, making $10m a year, and tomorrow they would come out and smash those midgets into the floor. Neither of them including coach knew a single greek name!
Secondly, even if the team took their time to prepare, could they do it? In every post-game comment there's the same whine "but they were pick-and-rolling! what could we do??" These players know little of teamwork, they are thoroughly bred for individual play since the AAU.Even if the US team lost, it does not mean that they are not the best team in the FIBA world championship, if the FIBA adopted the NBA best of seven or even best of seven format for the semifinal series, the greek team will most likely loose 4-1 or 4-2.
The thing in international basketball is that all you need to do is beat a team once, and even a dream team can have a bad day.DRAFT PLAYERS LIKE THE MILITARY!!!
...if shaq doesnt want to play, jail him!
...if redd wants to be with his wife, then put them both in jailGuys,
USA is not the center of the world. Accept that (in all cases). When other teams have their downfalls, they try hard to recover and have longer term plans to build a better team.
Don't fire at your players or your coach. Ok, coaching was not the best, US players were arrogant and never thought they could lose.
Take all these as lessons for the future. It really does not matter if player X is technically better than player Z.
Greece has 12 players that are all good and know their job. It is a great team and the European champion.
Respect, be humble, not arrogant and know your job.
Marketing does not win games. Marketing makes money to those that pull the strings.
Vassilis from Greece.When greek players were dancing in the middle after their win, Carmelo Anthony was looking at them and almost cried. But his eyes were telling more...
That's your biggest win. Having your BEST player to realise that only a TEAM can win a match.
And he did.
PS: When asked what is the biggest advantage of his team, Yannakis responded that they all are kids with GOOD character...
Harry, Athensits embarassing to see team USA, the team who was once the most feared and dominant in the sport of basketball, lose.. Im very sad to see them down but i think its a conscience call for the best players who declined to go and represent their country.. (shaq, duncan,garnett,allem, etc.) yes, international ball is played as a team but in terms of skill and athleticism nobody beats the USA and no one will.. obvious problems such as shooting, defense needs to be improved but imagine the USA team with starters of Shaq,Duncan,Garnett,Kobe and Tmac with subs Ray Allen, Iverson, Billups,James,Anthony,Wade and Redd.
the problem is the word...
C-O-M-M-I-T-M-E-N-T!!!
Carlo from the PhilippinesIt is a second that counts, even though they are extremely good players. Watching Nowitski, Gasol and other big European players that play in the NBA. They receive the ball and always wait a SECOND, it is the NBA "habit". Ok, I have the ball now everyone has to move out and leave me with my opponent. That might be good for the SHOW but it kills the "team game". I particularly think Spain will play better as a team without Gasol (obviously he is our best player) because he has acquired this way of playing.Being Canadian i remember when we thought we were the best at hockey because we were Canadians, then the rest of the world took what we did well and emphasized skating,shooting and passing and we started to lose at international events, and if you look at the last 12 to 15 years the top 10 in point getters in the N.H.L. were from over seas. When America starts to realize they are not simply the best at basketball because they are Americans, and start to structure their game on fundamentals opposed to "and 1" videos they will win again, how can a Canadian kid win two M.V.P awards and entertain us with the most exciting basketball in the N.B.A. ? Team play and fundamentals, it's that simple. As for coaching? Catch up? what? The international coaches are now ahead in their approach on how to attack and defend, open your eyes everybody, and to those who think Kobe will do good for a team, he's the poster as to what is wrong with American Basketball.People need to forget he idea that int'l teams play together for years. All the top teams' players have pro club commitments just as do NBA players. Look at Argentina. Their team is built around an NBA core and players that play on the other side of the planet in Europe. Compared to Argentina, the USA is at an advantage, not disadvantage, in terms of being in a postion to create team chemestry over time.Goodday everybody!
Today is a new day!
As a Greek of course I am very proud of our TEAM!!!
I believe that most basketball funs all around the World must be very pleased about the semi!
Greece managed to play their game not by destroying US's game but by not leting them play their's!Greece also offered a lot of spectacular moments with an amazing and spectacular offensive defence,with extremely calculated assists-Theo came out of NBA stories-and with long shots from 7 meters and dunks!
Greece showed everybody that noone's invincible and that faith can move mountains!
NBA-stars of course are just great athletes and still everybody compaires basketball to them.But the US basketball army is still far from being a TEAM!That's the point.Neither Coach-K nor the huge US-players are to blame!US need to become a TEAM!They need to bend over international game and reconsider the fundamentals!
Things have changed now and only the narrow-minded can not see the new perspective of the game!Globalisation proved to be of some good at last in something and I hope that the start of GREEK-TEAM's reign will start tomorrow,if not yet started!
Panagiotis D.NBA is too much entertainment and not competition. The way basketball is played in the NBA is maybe nice to look at but it is not the best way to win the game. Add to that the pressure of playing another type of game and the poor shooting is understandable but still inexcusbleIf this coach K is a coach of bball, I am Mike Jordan.I am not American, but it seems to me , that this man is totally a stranger to the game. If any other coach in the world had all these super stars, all oponents woyld have loose to 50 points. Nevertheless, the NBA basketball, is no longer basket, is somethimg else, like a show or a circus.The greatest opponent of US team is the pressure due to the demand for gold. You can not demand from an athlete to win all the time. If it considers a team, multiply it by several times. You don't have problem of shooters. The problem is that when, for example, they jump for a 3-pointer they carry a pack of cement on their backs. You need a solution? Get off their backs.
Do not dismantle this team, do not burn these players, do not recall Shaq and Cobe 'cause their thirst is gone.If you call this man of yours, a coach, I dont know what to say. This man is sleeping on the bench. In Europe, the worst coach, is better than him.Here's something no one has mentioned. The fact that in the NBA, you have to beat a team 4 times to advance. Remember Dallas won game 1 but Miami won the championship. Now, this would be hard to accomplish in FIBA, but it does give a team a chance to use different coaching strategies and a team cannot win 4 out of 7 with a 'good luck surprise' strategy.
The fact is, how many of our friendly Greek posters here would be smiling in a best of 7 series with Team USA?I Think the problem in the USA team was ,
1. the team was to young , not really experienced player , who know how to handle such situations .
2. TEAM USA is not a Team , they meet few weeks ago starting practicing , but thats just not enough against TEAMS like Greece, Argentina who play together for years .USA got to stick with a Team of players who have the passion to play for their Country and to win for the Homeland. Without that passion don´t even come again to a olympics & WC.
One the other hand , i don´t understand Coach K , how he can Left out Dwight Howard who played fantastic few minutes , i really dont understand it !!
And for Last Congratulations to the GREEKS , they played fantastic and I hope they will win the WC.
Exuce my english.
Greetings from CroatiaAtleticism is not enough.US players use it to with 3 steps overcome any defender when not getting the fault, when you have to dribble, shoot, passes ... at the end, having a good background on Basketball (skillfull play , which US have turned to be just jumpy) will help players to overcome difficulties in the court. Be honest with US, European players are much better than US, right, thats why they are filling NBA teams year after year they dont jump with their heads above the ring..so what!...they know how to play Basketball,...US team has already been defeated by Greece, Lithuania, Spain, Argentina, among others, with some others tight games...be humble and learn the lesson...US has to learn from European basketball and not being so arrogant...by the way, the referees were very good persons about travellings with US. Basketball=honest team work+background skills.I'd like to comment on the field goal percentages of both teams. It's wrong to look at the numbers and say: Well, US was cold, Greece was hot. Although that was also a factor, the main reason lies in the quality of shots they took. The greek team was just more patient and made the better decisions on the court. So they got high percentage shots. Whereas the US, especially in the fourth quarter, didn't pass the ball, took quick, selfish and bad shots. This resulted in a low field goal percantage. They need to learn how to play as a team and they just have to get cleverer and they have to know what to do at all times in all situations in the ballgame. Otherwise this "fluke" will happen again and again and again....To anonymous who stated that we Americans should stop the whinning. First of all, this is our blog, originating from the U.S., and we have the choice to write whatever we chose to. Also, to those who say the U.S. team did not respect their opponent because they did not refer to them by their names, how do you refer to them by their names when you can't even prounounce their names? It's not like you know weeks in advance who your opponent is going to be. It takes a while to learn a language that is foreign to you. In all the press conferences I watched, I thought Coach K and a the team USA gave props to all their opponents.Why is it such a surprise that the current European Champions beat the US? Give credit to European basketball, in the final of this World Championship two european teams play. Having NBA players or not means nothing for the quality of a team OR its players. If that was the case, US would get gold and Slovenia silver in Japan. Greece would be somewhere behind Brasil, China and Puerto Rico.
Anyway, I think it's about time US stopped calling the current NBA title holder as "World Champions". It's not only arrogant, it's also very innacurate.With the players you have, the US Team has to be at the top. But the team is young and need more experience. It also needs more strong players (Howard was alone, add Duncan, Stoudemire, Garnett, Shaq,...)to dominate the rebound again and a guard with experience who can drive the game (Billups, Kidd). Why not include Euroleague excelent players (Anthony Parker, Maceo Baston, Trajan Langdon,...)? Study the game of other teams and players. You might need too replace some stars by great support players with a precise job. An opinion from FranceIs there any good three point shooter in the U.S team?
Is there any 7 foot player? Where are Tim Duncan and Garnett?
Believe it or not, we are going to lose again if we don't have at least one great three point shooter. This is one of the reasons why we have never won a champion in the past six years. And I don't understand why the U.S coaches did not relize it.A good start Mike would be to stop calling "upset" the result between Greece and USA.
A good start would be to realize that if a team has no NBAers can still win and play way better than anyone.
A good start is to realize that the NBA champions are only the world champions in YOUR world.
Ignorrance is NOT a bliss. Acceptable to loose from Argentina but not Greece? This just shows total ignorrance about basketball. Greek teams dominate European championship like 20 years now. Greece's national championship is among the best in the world and
Greece is also the European champions. How the heck anyone can claim that is acceptable to lose from Spain but not from Greece is beyond me. Check your map, Spain is in Europe!
If in 08 you'll loose to Turkey or Lithuania you'll say "it's acceptable to loose from Greece, but Turkey? They have no NBAers!"
1st step is to loose this mentality. It won't get you anywhere.
NBA has become more of a show than baskeball. Americans play a different game. It's wise to build a team that knows what zone defence is a pick some players that can shoot.
Superior athletic skills mean nothing when 1vs5.
In conclusion I believe that team usa did well enough in this world championship. The "upset" would be for the usa to win the title with 5 individuals with no teamwork what-so-ever. By the time you accept this, you'll have a chance to win the next one (yes a chance, forget world domination crap).US team and championship still continue to have a set of best players in the world. In the last 20 years, tecnhnology improvement in athletics has led many world teams and players to adopt as much as possible novelty tactics worldwide from basketball players and teams. The last years two or more European teams stand in the top-four of soccer world champion or basketball world champion. It does not matter the final ranking as team-athletics are based on teams and tactics and not on skillful players.america just did'nt defend simple as that the defence in that game was shocking .and as for shooting you think someone like ray allen would be a great player in the scheme of things.But in the end the usa just got beat by a better team everything they did on the night was better there was no answer for that huge bulking baby shaq,and what about contesting three point shots ,god maybe the nba is'nt as good as everyone thinks it is.the nba with players like lebron james dwanye wade etc its all about them and them thinking there greater than there team mates and they can win games by themselves does'nt really work outside the nba does itHi from Greece.
Sometimes being in the hard group in a tournament can give you an advantage in contrast to have an easier programme. Look for example how hard Greece made it during the first period of qualification. Tough games can make you only better. Even if a top player (Zisis) gets injured you still have time to recover as a team. USA had a relatively easier programme and that didn't help to build up the team cohesion. USA can still lead on in basketball. Everybody here is so happy for the victory only because it was so incredible to beat the king. You have to put strong tests for your national team on an international level.Too much arrogance! You have to re-learn a lot of things about the wonderful game you invented. Perhaps the most important one is that ¡BASKETBALL IS A TEAM GAME! and you prefer Lebron or Wade playing for himshelves. You are still more confused that I thought looking for a individual solucion: Kobe? Oh, my good. Kobe´s 81 points would be a real solucion? You don´t know how to play like a team. Italy showed first that you are not a real team but there was not a reflexion after this: "Oh, Carmelo was on fire". Yes, Carmelo was on fire all the Championship and Howard was great in rebounds, and? You can bring the brightest stars of the NBA´s sky, you have not get a team spirit and you´ll never get it: BEST PLAYERS DON´T MAKE THE BEST TEAM1. add spice to the group like reddick and redd, vets such as chauncey and stopper bowen. and of course, don't forget to put icing on the cake, kobe! i don't think 81 isn't enough. Is it? (dream roster for olympics- billups(sets tempo), bryant(81 anf more), bowen(who fo you want to be stopped?, marion(all around), amare(dunks gives boost). off the bench wade(zone breaker), redd(need 3),c.paul(all around too), howard(amare's back-up), "melo"(determined, hardworking, wants revenge)brad m.(team needs big guy)reddick(how about a shooter). what do you think?
2. Team USA needs to use its strength(athleteticism) agaisnt other teams.
3. These are great individuals(each has its own specialty) and if they just could BLEND, well we'll see a dream team again.
4. Remove "showbiz" players!!!
5. Start hot and end up really hot!!! (time for relaxation is after the tournament! CONSISTENCY from start to finish.
6. Team USA has no more MJ, bird and Magic.
ryjmnp15@yahoo.comThe first to go should be the head coach who did not even know the greek players names. How can you prepare to play against a team who you dont even know the name of its players. Is this a little league coach ? Coach K or whatever the hell his name is should have been more humble in setting an example to his squad by at least knowing the opponent by name. How dare a coach of a US team make such fundamental mistake. Fail to prepare....prepare to fail.....You are luck you have job at the college level ! You should not even be allowed to coach the disabled !I'm an italian basket player and i think that all you (americans)have to do is to stop your one-on-one playground-like game, and start to play basketball as a team.One solution (you can apply it as well to politics and other aspects of life in USA): Fight your IGNORANCE.
I heard coach K referring to Greek players by numbers, number 4 was amazing, number 7, number 15.
No they are not difficult names. In fact they're far easier than "Krzyzewski".
Number 4, Papalukas won 4 titles the past year (European champion with Greece, Russian League & Cup & Euroleague with CSKA) and was the MVP of the Euroleague. Number 7, Spanulis is signed by Rockets.
And so on. All of them are European champions. You should know them.
And none of the players ever saw Greece (or Spain or Argentina) playing before!!!!!
You go into a championship without knowing your opponents!!!
And you expect to win just because you have all these flashy names from NBA.
Your scouting and coaching team has to really work.
Put Coach K to write down on the paper 100 times the name of Sofoklis Schortsianitis. Because he's gonna face him again after two years...
So, admit your ignorance and fight it!Sorry, but all these athlets need to go back in gymn and take hours in basic fundamentals, shoot, pass and patience ! I believe that NBA is very much funny but if you look on fundamentals probably only few international player and some US guys are pretty much confident on that ! Dunk it's not enaugh when you play international...... Without a real immersion on fundamentals US would continue to loose in international tournaments !!!your problem is arogance...
you don´t understand one simple rules: WORLD IS NOT ONLY USA...
for 50 years you have 3 gold medal (9 overall);Yugoslavia have 5 (10 overall)...i bet 90% your population have no idea what´s yugoslavia is...
it´s so sad....from the comments I read you americans don't realize a few things about european basketball.
you were beaten in your own game - basketball in europe is far from being popular, the most popular sport in europe (and in the world) is soccer. the largest basketball arenas in europe have no more than 20,000 seats (and 10,000 is considerred very large). in the highest level of competition in europe (the euroleague) there's an average of 4000 fans.
second, you were beaten in your own style, the greek team won the last european championship scoring 60 or 65 points in average, and maybe the best offensive team in european history scored 90 points in average, 105 points is a score rarely reached.
the differneces of style between the NBA and the rest of the world are in mentality mainly.
in europe basketball is a sport, in the NBA it's a business, a few, if any team in europe earn any money, and that is also true in soccer where the money is bigger (the reachest sports clubs in the world are soccer clubs). btw, the richest basketball clubs in europe have 20 or 25 million dollar budget, the sallaries in the NBA are much too high (the same player can get in the NBA 4 times as much as he gets in europe and no club can pay more than 1.5 or 2 mil for a player).
another difference is the stars. the stars in europe are never bigger than the team, that means that the coach is the real boss and he can put he's biggest star on the bench for an entire game for discplinary reasons (and that realy happens), do you see any situation where kobe doesn't play an entire game for doing something foolish in the begining of the game? the star is another tool and stars aren't a concept, they are just the best players in their team. as such they don't shoot 25 times a game, and most of the times in the euroleague rare are the players that shoot even 16 point per game.
the attitude towards the national team is another things. the european players don't need to sign a 3 year commitment to play in the national team, they have a carrer long commitment for the national team just because it's realy an honor playing for the team(and only an injured player or a player that already contributed alot to the team and is excused).
there are many differences between european and NBA game, and the result is a team game, more advanced type of game and better coaches that actually decide what is going to happen and who is going to shoot the last shot (surprise, it doesn't have to be the star).
the first thing that should be done in the NBA is a shorter season. in an 82 game season most games aren't realy important, and as a result most american players aren't used to playing one decisive game. the playoffs should also be shorter, and maybe the champion should be decided in only one - possibly 3 games.
the decision that is to be made is if the NBA is entertainment and a bussiness or sports.There are some myths around
1th Myth - The rest of the world has caught on american basketball
- Do you remember Harold Miner, of Miami Heat, the 6-5 shooting guard?The guy could JUMP!!!!So what?He failed to do a great career in the NBA.I bet today he would have been together with 'Melo and LeBron in the USA team.
My point is that the NBA is on a downfall, especially since the 1998 lockout.Let's face it.Since the old stars retired (Jordan,Pippen,Malone,Robinson etc.) no-one came to their place BASKETBALL-WISE...not marketing wise.
It's the american basketball in a downfall, not the international basketball in a rise.As long as David Stern & Co care only to make as much more money as they can by selling Jerseys, as long as they move to the starting line-ups 19 year old rookies because NIKE or ADIDAS or who else signed with them a multi-year contract, then the american basketball is destined to have many more "upsets" for the years to come!
2th Myth - The best international players play in the NBA, and the all the international players dream to play in the NBA.
Man, what a joke!If someone looks well the rosters of the national teams in this world championship, he'll notice that international players go to NBA mainly from countries that have either a short-fan following (e.g. Germany - We all know Germany lives for soccer)and/or low-level basketball, or from countries that simply the financial situation isn't good there and they sick fame and money in the NBA.
Proof - France was never as good as advertised, being beaten again and again by Greece, who's having no active NBA players on the roster.And the french coach commented "we have only one player playing in the Euroleague!".
Conclusion : The french coach rates higher the Euroleague than the NBA!
And another proof, how come Turkey, who left all its NBAers at home, did so well in the tournament???
3th & 4th Myth - Being beaten by Greece was a biggest upset than Spain of Argentina.
- Coach K was well prepared but the players didn't follow
What?
Papaloukas was the MVP of Euroleague last year, which is something equivalent of our NBA MVP.Still he doesn't even play on the starting line-up!And STILL coach K didn't even KNOW his name!!!!Papadopoulos and Fotsis won the small European cup this year ( sorry, I don't know its name).Papadopoulos outplayed Duncan in the 2004 Olympics but coach K didn't even know his name!!!
What a shame!!! And then our problem is the FIBA rules!!!!
4th Myth - U.S. team was well prepared.
Nonsense! How come was pothere are only two differences between greece and usa: intelligence and heart.
it is much more difficoult to play in europe than in nba. in europe you need to use your head to control every minute of your game and have balls (heart) to put the ball in the basket when it is important. greeks are intelligent and played with usa like a spider building it's net.
coach K never understood what was going on on the court. he lost the game with his unlogic rotations and played the same tactical weapons with france, italy... but there is an enrmous difference between france (no playmakers) and greece (5 strong pguards) he does not now even the names of greek players.
dear friends, greeks (coach Yannakis as n.1) gave a basketball lesson to the usa team (to coack K first of all) of how difficoult games are played.
the only way to solve that problem is to eliminate illegal defences from nba rules and begin to play as european play: with more tactics, intelligence and heartJust step back for a while, think about the times, point all your three ring-bearing fingers left into the right future-making direction and recompare yourselves to another also mind-having and so funny called international coaches and players. And the fact is, when I consider the term international within any basketball kind of speculation, there are no but few north-american characters shown to the eye and all of them neal-near to retiring themselves from playing or even coaching by now. Can you imagine the same polution has tided these rocky coasts and shamed one proud hand with all five fingers full of shine!
Have some patience, there is another talented generation here growing fast.1) The international stage has NOT caught up to the NBA in skill, athleticism, or teamwork because if 100 international players come and play in the NBA, maybe 2 or 3 of them will succeed.
2) The USA team has problems because the BEST players are not on the court. If Kobe Bryant (the guy who dropped 81 points in an NBA game) played, he would have dominated if his team needed him too. If Shaquille O'Neal (the greatest center to play the game) was playing, he would destroy every single player that TRIED to defend him). When Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird were all playing for team USA you didn't see the United States pick completely random "youngsters" like Chris Bosh (the "franchise" for the worst team in the NBA since he came out 3 years ago) to represent their country.
3) The coaching staff was terribly selected. Why pick a COLLEGE coach to deal with NBA superstars? Why not Phil Jackson, Gregg Poppovich, or Larry Brown? They have all won championships and they have all dealt with major superstars (Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Iverson to name just a few).
4) How can you expect players who have all at least played 4 years on an NBA court to come out and play with an almost completely different rule set? Cna you blame the players because the NBA doesn't adapt for the Olympics or WCOB? No, of course you can't so stop whining.
5) With all due respect to the players, they busted their asses. After being together for only 3 weeks and challenging teams that have been playing together for months/years, can they be blamed for losing? No, they can't. They don't have team cohesion because they NEVER play together, they only play AGAINST teach other.
6) Most of these players were not ready. Chris Bosh, Dwight Howard, Kirk Hinrich, Shaun Battier? Replace Battier with Bowen, Hinrich with Billups, Bosh and Howard with the Wallaces (from Detroit and Chicago). Veterans need to play in these tournaments because they understand how to become a team much more quickly. No matter what anyone says, I'm sure Kobe would tough it out and play some team ball (didn't you all see him against Phoenix. Granted they lost but he was sacrificing points for assists so give me a break about his selfishness).
6) In 2008 there will be one definite change to the roster of team USA. Amare Stoudamire will be representing his country. Regardless of what ANYONE says Amare was born to revolutionize the game and when he's 100% healthy, believe me, he will. He can do anything: shoot, dunk, block, rebound. You name it; he can do it.
Thanks.
P.S. To all the Europeans, don't be to proud about the United States' loss. Once they start putting the real players on the court in 2008, neither Greece, Spain, nor Argentina will stand a chance.
I'm from Canada by the way and I'm proud to be Canadian and I'm proud of Steve Nash but I have to say:
GO TEAM USA IN 2008!!!
THEY'RE GOING TO WEAR THE GOLD MEDAL IN BEIJING!!!Greetings from Athens! I think coach K. is a great coach and the US players the very best in the world. Yannakis and the the Greek players on the other hand are some of the best in Europe and it just happened that we won this time because, in my opinion, we were simply better and also wanted it more. I think most NBA players, not just the American ones, were exhausted from the long season. Dirk Nowitzki looked very tired in the European Championship too. The other thing is that players like James and Wade didn't look as if the cared too much about beating us. As for players like Kobe and Shaq, they should be honored to represent their country by playing in an international tournament. I accept Kobe had an excuse both this time and at the Olympics (I don't believe it but anyways) but what's Shaq's excuse? And even if they did come would they have played like Iverson and Duncan did in the Olympics? I consider them to be the best and the played like average players. I think players should give a 100% when they play for their country and they should listen to their coach and not try to win it by themselves. I can't believe that coach K., one of the best in the world as the Greek commentators said on TV, didn't know how to defend the pick n' roll. Being a Greek I am proud for my country beating the best and I admire the way Americans give us credit for it. You guys have to admit that team basketball is more interesting to those who know the game and that the NBA has gotten a little boring with all those isolation plays. I agree that "It is the virtue of the defeated, that gives value to the victor".The US ball players, in general, need to know the international game. What happened was a display of the NBA style of play, where there are a lot of 1 on 1 and isolations. It has been that way because these two styles sell products, whereas the International level couldn't sell itself without any flashy names and stuff.
Shooting should also be a premium. But come 2008 Olympics, this US team will capture the gold.Bring in on shaq o neal. They badly need him out there. Remember he is the self-proclaimed MDE. he can dominate even there ... Two years from now , shaq maybe a step slower but he can still contribute immensely in international play. The US team badly needs a big man like shaq who can dominate.Kobe and Shaq together in the US team. They are so good that its 100 per cent they can bring home the bacon in international competitions.Stop give the blame on the FIBA rules! Greece was a better TEAM.
FIBA is changing the international rules the last 10 years, bringing closer to NBA rules.
Examples: the 30 seconds attack time became 24 seconds (like in NBA). The 2 half times became 4 quarters. The three point line closer to the NBA line. The 1+1 free throws became 2 free throws (like in NBA).
Like european learned NBA rules, so must do NBAers.
Sergio
Italy(To CH).What exactly do you mean by 'I could almost accept a gold medal game loss to Spain or Argentina, but a loss to Greece?'?Your statement shows great arrogance and that is one of the things your team has to stop doing.Are you saying that Greece became European champion by luck?Or that (even before their game with the U.S)they were undefeated in the world championship because they were lucky?And if nba players don't care enough for the world championship they shouldnt participate at all.Im not a basketball player and i dont know many basketball's technical terms but my opinion is simple:Every team has to face every opponent with respect. Especially an opponent that has proven he is tough,focused and talented.Watching the world championships has been the most enjoyable. The flow of the game is much better than the NBA. Back door plays, adjustments on the fly (without a zillion timeouts), crisp passing that find the weakest point and exceptional shooting. That's what makes basketball beautiful. In this tournament you can also see the passion and the patriotism of all participating. The world championships is where the best basketball is being played, not the NBA. I actually think that the NBA would be better for viewers if it had the same rules as international ball. There would be more fluidity, more skill, more teamwork, more excitement. Also, it would make a more even playing field, cos zones would force better shooting, passing and strategy. When underdogs have more chance to win, it makes for more compelling viewing.
I hope that the USA comes back full strength for the olympics. I hope their players keep their heads high and keep playing on. It would be a shame if they gave up now.This was not a USA team, it was a circus. A better one, no doubt, than in 2002 and 2004, but still a circus! Our players can jump like monkeys but, let's face it, they can't play basketball..They are only good for side shows...The NBA is a commercial, marketing led institution and has destroyed American Basketball. In order to be able to sell and buy players, to sustain a market where zillions of dollars circulate, they have emphasised more the value of individual players, how high they can jump, how good acrobats they are. The mentality has to change. Stop focusing on marketing and branding of players and try to remember that this is basketball..Congradulations to my beautiful country - Greece. After shocking the world 2 years ago by winning the European football (soccer) championship, we are now in the final of the world basketball championship. What a great team, what a great coach. No words can describe my joy for my beloved country.
I went to the US in the 80's to study and was very surprised to see that teams that win almost any type of competition (with the exception of soccer) are automatically hailed as "world champions". I have visited many countries in the world but have never seen this phenomenon. This in my opinion shows a lack not just of humility, but also a lack of intelligence. When you talk about a "world" champion, you must compete against the "world" and win, not just 20 other teams from your country. What Americans don't realize is that it is this attitude that makes a lot of people in the world very happy when they lose. Nobody, anywhere, likes arrogance and unfortunately Americans show this lack of humility not just in sports but in politics too with often catastrophic results. If you are the champion of the US, call yourself the champion of the US, if you are the best team in the Midwestern US, call your self the champion of the Midwestern US. To earn the title of "world champion" you need to compete against the world. And when US competes against the world it usually looses (soccer, basketball, volleyball etc). The US is a great country but has failed to realize the humility is a core part of true greatness.A simple soulution would be for the NBA to adopt the rules of the international game. Then, when players go play in an international competition, the transition would not be as difficult.we need shooters allen,reddick,redd or even kerr,then put phil jackson in there to run the triangle offense so nobody is standind still we need sharp cutters plus kobe = gold medal,2 years is enough time to learn the triangleArrogance kills.K wasnt able to know even the Greek players.He called them numbers!And i didnt like the fact after the final wistle most of US players hit the showers without a handshake with their opponents.USA is calling every US tournaments "world" and continues to call soccer what the rest of the world is calling FOOTBALL.How you can call something football when you play it with your hands?humility is the key.And dont say we must take kobe,Shaq etc etc in the team.Oups!Team?US have individuals not a TEAM.Its an example of life.ALWAYS a team can win some individuals.Congratulations to Greece for this triumph.A small country with about how many?10m? people slapped US in the face and the rest of the world LIKED it.Great teamwork and FANTASTIC game.The best basketball game i ever saw.Wake up! Basketball is not only in America.This happened till 15years ago.Not any more!My team PANATHINAIKOS from Greece can easily beat most of the NBA teams.You just don't know it!Ignorance is something that is going to cost America a lot.Even with all your best players in, team USA will have many troubles in high level international matches in the future.And about this arrogant "world champion NBA" tittle.Is not provocative any more.It sounds like a joke!!hello from greece! fortunatelly i can read ur comments saying that basket ball is a team game. u have to learn from the rest of the world : no arrogance , just work , just a team work.and this is available not only fro the basket ball.remember THIS!The US still has the world's best athletes, that's a given.
Unfortunately, we can't get them to work together.
Another issue here is the fact that FIBA basketball and NBA basketball are far different in regards to the emphasis played on team passing vs isolation.
However, part of the issue with this crop of Team USA is that it never FORCED its style of basketball upon anybody. We hear a lot of talk when different team styles meet in the NBA, and team that wins these is the one tends to put their own style down the other team's throat. We have been passive in that regards. We can't play the FIBA game, it just dosn't bode well.
So why the hell are playing along instead of discovering some method of forcind the game to upon into something more NBAish?
Also, we must understand that this is just one loss. To be honest, this is a UCONN vs George Mason thing. George Mason played with heart, team basketball and just wanted it more. UCONN, didn't.
However, they call these "underdog" stories for a reason. They wouldn't happen very often. Play a seven game series, the US would probably win. In a one game scenario, the excitment, the heart of an underdog can overcome, but in a series? Nope. Same thing with UCONN vs GM. Did anybody actually think GM was better? Or did they get incredbily hot one night, UCONN was off and well, there we go?Simple: change NBA and NCAA rules to match the international rules. Call traveling. Did you see LeBron travel off the rebound in the 2nd quarter today? Call charges correctly, allowing smaller guys to hang in the lane to "block" the big guys.
The lane seems to be the big difference, though, forcing the big guys to actually move. Yao and Dirk can both move and shoot. If they'd been playing in the US their whole lives, they'd have just been dunkers.
Finally, coaches need to actually push players on their free throw percentages. It's shameful to lose free points like our guys do, and neither the NCAA or the NBA want to do anything about it.We have to stop taking shortcuts and install a sophisticated offensive and defensive gameplan. For all the changes we made, we still think we can roll the ball out there and dominate the competition without gameplanning.What we saw was U.S. arrogance and jingoism. And years of selfish, one on one playing catching up with this team. Under Coach Wooden, you had fundamentally sound players who knew how to play team ball. With the advent of dunk artists like Jordan and his "cast of supporting players" you have Nike commercials. It was fun watching Lebron James gettting "posterized" again and again by fat anonymous Greek players. Get used to this. As long as a dunk is more important to a US player than a jump shot, pass, or made free throw, we will be seeing this a lot in the future.basketball has change a lot since 80s and 90s. The "one against five" basketball is dead. You have realise that if you want to become champ again. Jordan WAS the greatest of all, but there's no Jordan any more to make the difference. European basketball is more tactical and elegant from a simple "run, slam an'dunk".
Change your rules!Hello from Greece.I see you got upet from the loss.Well there is one specific reason that explains your loss and our victory.The US players were begged to play for their national team and were paid with a lot of money for it!!The Greek players played just for the pride to be in the national team which i think gives you stronger motivation.Also, it is about time that you realise that European players are as good as the NBAers in shots,rebounds etc and also smarter.So bye bye and see you in China!WE HAVE YET ANOTHER 101 PONTS FOR YOU!!I think most people forget that the point of this team is to win in 3 years this was like the NFL preseason and will most likely just be a footnote when team USA wins the Olympics.
If you really want to change things which I think most people do because they are jealous of these great/wealthy players why not just send the Pistons with Ben Wallace. Everyone loves them so at least we wouldnt have so many people writing about how to fix a team after 1 lossI agree with those who point to a communication problem, but believe it may be a different sort than has been suggested thus far. That is, perhaps international refs don't understand the vile invective K spews from the sideline and, therefore, are not intimidated into favoring his team.This is simple. Old school versus new school. Old school (read international ball) = jump shooting, team oriented precision offense with few isolation plays. New school (read NBA) = slam dunking, really cool looking one on one play (who needs jump shots?!).
Remember Princeton who took it to the bigs in the NCAA with their old school ball?
Same thing just happened to the USA. We got Schooled. Old Schooled.This proves that just because you are good enough to make the NBA does not give you a "DOMINATION" players card. You could probably get 10 people from any neighborhood in the US (or anywhere else) and spank a team of NBA players. American Superstars need to stop thinking that we win by default beacause they are in the NBA and just play ball like you did before you made money. FOR RESPECT! The Hood Is Watching...Hi, I m Elena from Greece. I watched the game with the USA and I have 2 things to say. 1st, congrats for the perfect player the USA team has. 2nd, what happened on Friday proved that the most important thing in team sports, like basketball, is not having a 5 big stars, but having 5 smaller pieces that can co-operate perfectly in order to make one big star. ThanksLet's stop blaming our pros for losing a completely different game than they are used to playing! Put together a team of college players to play in this carnival, and refuse to send our pros there until the international rules are closer to our pro rules. Our college games are almost as bad, now! Do we really want to see a bunch of scrawny kids chuck it up 100 times from a short 3pt line while club-footed dough boys clg up the middle all day? I can go to my local YMCA and watch that! I
m all for good shooting and passing, but not at the expense of punishing athleticism. As for the free throws... why are the refs in the game that much anyway? We all know how much international refs like to manipulate games from our loss to the USSR decades ago.Europeans play basketball like Larry Bird (they can shoot and pass while playing a team game) whereas Americans play like Kobe (all about personal glory, never pass, one-on-one).
I think the US will be lucky to medal...Let's be honest with ourselves, we know that the system we have now is not working. We need to scrap the Idea of picking certain NBA Players based on there skill set's to compete in International Competition. The NBA and the Players Union need to come up with a clause in all NBA players contracts to commit the NBA team that finishes with the Best NBA record with the least amount of International players on that team to compete. Example, The 07/08 NBA team with the best record with the least amount of "Int'l Players on the Roster" should compete in the 2008 Oylmpics. It is as simple as that! This will give us a cohesive Team that knows how to play together. As opposed to the current system where these guys are forced to feel each other out as they are playing in a competitive game. I feel this will assure the USA a Gold or at least a legitimate chance! Team chemistry goes a long way as we should all know.A couple of things:
1. I'm not sure where people think the U.S. team got their "arrogance" from, or that we didn't "respect" Greece. We knew going in this was going to be a tough game/tournament, I never heard anyone say we were just going to roll some NBA players over to Japan and win the gold this year. Not since 2002 have we had that attitude.
2. If Greece played in the NBA, by NBA rules with NBA officials, they would get their butt's kicked. FIBA is just a different style of b-ball. Greece is used to it, the U.S. is not, I don't care when the got their "national team" together. They've played the same style of ball for years, even if it wasn't together as a team. Did Parker, Ginobili and Nowitzki start dominating the NBA as soon as they got here? No, they had to adjust to the style. It's funny how U.S. players that couldn't make it in the NBA can dominate in Europe after just a few years of adjusting to the FIBA game.
3. For all you haters, how about the beating we just handed Argentina? Wow, for a bunch of no fundamental having, self indulgent superstars without a chance against one of the best "teams" in the world, we did pretty good, huh? So maybe we shouldn't bury the U.S. team just yet, let them adjust to the FIBA style a bit more and we'll see who plays the best ball in the world.Team USA tried hard but the greek dudes showed that they too, know tons of basket. Team USA has great athletes but I wouldn't say greater skill, overall. Another reason the greek team is so strong it's because it's like a family, these guys are best friends on and off the court and nobody puts himself above the team. The team spirit of the greek team is unbelievable, the dudes say its a blessing being together and playing for the team! Giannakis has done a tremendous job to put it all right in every respect. USA coach shouldn't be blamed about not knowing their names, they are long and difficult to pronounce. I don't think team USA underestimated them but may be they didn't expect them to be that good in the offense! USA basketball is teriffic but one has to come to terms with not winning gold all the times.
All the best brothers.
A greek.Anyone who watches NBA games should realize by now that the U.S. plays a basketball-like game, but it isn't basketball anymore. It is relatively unscripted entertainment performed by incredible athletes, but it sure isn't basketball in the traditional sense. For years, fundamental play has been neglected in favor of the remarkable move, shot, or pass which highlights the INDIVIDUAL. Fame is the brass ring and ESPN highlights are brief, so fundamental team play can't be glorified (and commodified) in the way that spectacular individual play can be. This loss - and past losses - should not be such a surprise. Nor should the U.S. worry; everyone else in the world will catch up to us and begin playing more poorly once they realize that the money is in entertainment and not in fundamental basketball.basketball has change a lot since 80s and 90s. The "one against five" basketball is dead. You have realise that if you want to become champ again. Jordan WAS the greatest of all, but there's no Jordan any more to make the difference. European basketball is more tactical and elegant from a simple "run, slam an'dunk".
Change your rules!I hate to say this, but would Elton Brand, Joe Johnson or shane battier be on the team if it wasn't for their Duke or Phoenix connection.
Also, what criteria placed players like Kirk heinrich, Brad Miller, chris paul, or chris bosh on the team.
The key is to not just throw a bunch of young players against these international teams. The team should consist of both older stars and younger stars. The older stars are there to bridge the gap until the younger stars can take over and do the same for the next set of younger stars.
Example, at the next USA practice camp, a team of veteran stars should be Bibby, Kobe, Tmac, Duncan,Ben Wallace and sub Ron Artest against younger stars Wade, Carmello, Lebron, Howard and Bosh (I can't think of any young proven center right now) and sub chris paul.
These 12 would be the ones to represent us in the olympics and they would not give any excuses about international rules, can't shoot the 3, can't play defense, can't hit the open shot against a zone, don't have the killer instinct or coaches didn't scout the other team properly.
Plus, playing against each other in practice ensures that they are playing against top caliber player. This team provides a coach with options of playing a small lineup, a big lineup, a defensive lineup a offensive lineup, a good free throw shooting line up or any combination.Hi again,
after watching today's game against US and Argentina, I was surprised to see that the US player took their medals today.
I hope there is very good explanation for that because I can only think that this is (yet another) expression of elitism and arrogance.
I hope I'm wrong and there's a perfectly good explanation for it; and that the US team will be there after tomorrow's world cup final.
Vassilis from GreeceOne big reason is our NBA players are tournament players. They are not used to play just one game to settle it all. I believe US would have won it if they played best-of-7 tournament against Greeks.
So our players have to be mentally prepared for international games. Or we can challenge them to play best -of-7 tournament with us.As what we have seen in the FIBA world championships, the world has indeed caught up with US basketball (even surpassing it). Because of this, I think its unrealistic for us to think that the US team would blow out every opponent it encounters..
IMO the US team has showed lots of improvement over the other US teams. You can give credit specially to their attitude and willingness to learn..
I think that this has been a very good lesson and experience for them. The USA Basketball has put up a very good program (for long term). Give these guys enough time and im sure they will win the Gold in the future..
ALso, their roster should also be altered a bit more so that they would have extra shooters. Add Kobe, Redick and morrison...The key word is "team". U.S. has a skillful roster but thats it, they arent a team. Every player is better at an one to one but they can lose against a strategic play and a well worked up set of 12. Thats where this game was lost against a powerfull, non NBA rostered, united, and well organised Greek (dream) Team. As correctly the Greek coach Panayotis Yannakis added "Basketball isnt only a game of dribbling and shooting" but Dream Team thought that their natural skills (no ant-dopping control was conducted on any USA player because they refuse to, so we all believe them that they dont take any substances that FIBA doesnt allow ++lol++) speed, shooting and jumping was enough to get them the world cup. As correctly the American Coaches say "There isnt an "i" in the word team" but US players spelled the word "tiiim".- wake up coach K: brand just 13 minutes, howard just 12 = less boards, no inside presence.
- use a normal rotation where 5-6 players play the bulk of minutes. tell everyone that they may be stuck on the bench for a long time, so if they know they will pout, they better stay home. if some "stars" refuse to act as role-players, bring real role players.
- as much as possible, keep the same team. they are still young and learning. and they are incredibly talented. have them play together as much as possible to develop cohesion - then you'll have a sure shot at gold in china in 2008American reporters, the media and american players think that just because an international team doesn't have NBA players, they are mediocres. As in many other topics, the US is unaware of what goes on in the rest of the world. Good lesson (3rd lesson in a row) for those already counting on gold just because we have the NBA players.....The best thing the USA could do is send the complete Detroit Pistons (including Ben Wallace) to international competition, together with some players who actually know to do something different than going for statistical figures (boys: those guys are NOT Wade, Kobe and the whole bunch of "TOP10-NBA-ACTION-overrated-superstars")..
send a TEAM for God's sake and maybe you will have a chance for gold at the olympics 2008.
Don't forget that historical basketball nations (as russia, serbia and lithuania) are replacing their national teams with a new generation and the competition will just get tougher at international level..
greeting from croatiawhats the suprise the game is totally different. If we enjoyed the international game than we all would be tuning into europe tv to watch. the truth is that international play is designed for teams and the NBA is designed for players. in the us we don't want to watch players that aren't what we would consider elite players. we have a farm system like the NCAA. now would anyone pay to see the players from geaorge mason play inthe NBA. I hope not cause i wouldn't the us is far better than greece but not in a one game system. they need time to adjust to them in a few game senario. to be honest I couldn't even tell one greece player from the next (in the back court) and from coach k's post game report (refering to greece players by numbers) neither could he. In the NBA we know all the players because we've seen them for years. The sign of a true player is their ability to execute their game successfully even when they are being focused on. Thats why the NBA has a best of 7 series and that's why in college we have teams like U CONN that don't win the title with a one and out format. if anybody thinks that there are so many european players that can play in the NBA then why are there so few. Let us not forget that the game of basketball was nurtured in the US and as time goes on It will always be at Its best in the US.I see LeBRONZE James has delivered another Bronze medal to the USA.Why is it the U.S that needs to change?
We invented the sport, and we invented it to be fast, free-flowing, and dependent upon individual impact. That's what basketball is made for. There's 5 people for a reason. If we wanted it to be about packing the lane, we'd put 7 people on a side. This isn't baseball. This isn't soccer. This is basketball.
If the international players want to make it so that they don't have to individually be good and can just cheaply pack the lanes and robotically shoot shorter 3s, how exactly is that a more noble way of playing than the American rules?
It's a cop-out, that's what it is. They know they can't win if it comes down to talent. And that's why they have to minimize the effect of talent as much as possible. It's cheap, it's a cop-out. And when they start jeering after beating us at it. . . Once. We did just cream Argentina, by the way, not mention doing it using the apparently "inferior" American style of basketball called "talent-based".
I do believe D-Wade came on in the 4th quarter and completely ripped that theory into itty bitty shreds. Ask the Argentinians, who were the favorites prior to the tourney, whether American style basketball is defunct.
Let's look at the championship round: Spain vs. Greece. Alas, the flaw of international basketball is revealed. Neither of the best two teams in the tourney made it to the finals. That's what happens with smaller courts. It ends up being a futile exercise that has little to do with talent. Argentina is out. The U.S. is out.
Now how pathetic is that?
It has little to do with team play. Not really. Any team can score a quick upset, and lo and behold, the teams with the biggest targets on their backs ended up getting upset. China. Argentina. The U.S.
That's what's wrong with the international game. It has so little to do with skill or talent, or even teamwork for that matter.My name is Jose, i´m an Spaniard basketball coach. In my opinion, the main reason is american players are not properly trained about individual and collective tecnique and tactic, footwork, shooting, etc, when they are at high school and at college. Even Phil Jackson wrote this kind of thoughts in several books. There is too much pressure on their coaches to win, they (the players) don´t worry about what they really need to win, they are only worried about being on TV or the highlights every week...or the money they can make if they have a chance to make the NBA. So more and more international players are recruited by NBA teams, and became more important for their NBA teams. Because in Europe coaches still worry about teaching basics to their players, and they have the pacience to learn and get experienced in pro leagues in Europe, and then try to make the NBA. As a simple fan, I prefer very much the game in the 80's than now, I think players are more selfish than ever before, they don´t want to work and to learn. What to do? I think it would be very very difficult to turn things inside out, but American Basketball have to try to make a TEAM, A REAL TEAM, not a group of players as it was the all star game, and find a coach that can achieve this (who can he be?? maybe Phil Jackson??). I wish you sincerily good luck with the challenge...I'm a USA basketball fanatic & respect the invidual talent of each player in the team. However, basketball is a team game not an invidual game. Even if you send Shaq or Kobe, i don't think USA can still win the gold IF THEY PLAY ONE On ONE game!
USA should learn how to repect their opponents, create a play for zone defense & scout the opponents. Keep in mind that your not UNBEATABLE ANYMORE..NEVER UNDERESTIMATE A TEAM WITHOUT AN NBA PLAYERS!!It's not like we didn't play together. We led every team in the tournament in points and assists (by a wide margin). We just need to learn how to defend the pick-and-roll and how to do it. One-on-one play, as many have mentioned, is not effective when the game slows down. I'm not real sure what Coach K. was doing the whole time if he didn't even teach us how to do that. Give in Kobe and Ray Allen in '08 and I like our chances.nba will loose its prestige if its players keep underperforming in the world champioships. Believe it or not nba become truly international thanks to the success of jordan, bird, magic in the international competitions. Otherwise nba will have remain an american only league just as the nflthis team had to many superstars and no true go too player. i belive that the addition of KOBE BRYANT will solve this problem. With kobe on the team he should most surly be the go to guy . the offence should run throug him thus opin the court for the slashing game that both wade and lebron play. and finaly the u.s need kobe becase of his 3 point shooting .Greetings from Germany. I am a big fan of the NBA and it is really fun to watch. A great show indeed. However, the best basketball is not played there anymore, but in Europe. If you really want to see some good basketball, then try the European League, where you can watch the best teams from Greece, Spain, Italy, Russia etc. Perhaps you will understand then why your national team has not been successfull over the last 5-6 years.what about the usa roster that blew out argentina in the 2003 qualifier final by 40+! There were more veterans on that team, with better fundamentals!1. Team USA was without its two best centers Shaq & Duncan, its two best power forwards Garnett & Amare S.,and its best all around player Kobe. Team USA's interior defense and rebounding was pathetic.
2.Adopting the Phoenix Suns style of play, trying to outscore the other team with a high octane offense and not even bothering to play defense was a recipe for disaster. The old cliche "defense wins championships" is still true.
Chicago-great defense 6 titles
San Antonio-great defense 3 titles
Detroit-incredible defense 3 titles
Lakers-great defense 3 titles
Phoenix- 0 titles
Dallas-0 titles
See a Pattern?
TEAM USA will never win another international title regardless of the players until half-court defense becomes the top priority.
Greece was the best defensive team in the tournament by far and look at the result.
3.Team USA needs better outside shooters and needs to run an actual offense with set plays. Running isolation sets with Dwayne and Melo while everyone else stands around will not cut it.Recent Posts
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