Talk pro football with SI.com's Andrew Perloff in Huddle Up, a forum to discuss the hottest topics around the NFL.
4/13/2007 12:31:00 PM
Will Ginn fall in draft?
Ted Ginn Jr. may be falling down draft boards because of injury concerns..
Ted Ginn Jr.'s sub-par performance at a workout in Columbus on Wednesday may be a stroke of luck for some team in the middle to late part of the first round. The Ohio State receiver/returner is recovering from an ankle injury and ran 40s between 4.38 and 4.42 on a historically fast track at Ohio State. He was expected to run closer to a 4.2. Even worse, he couldn't perform the typical receiving drills.
I think Ginn might end up on everyone's draft bargain list in a couple of years -- unless, of course, the NFL ignores his workout and he still goes in the top 10.
Teams can't necessarily afford to pass on players because of concerns about lingering injuries. Guys are coming back from everything these days and recovering faster than ever. Just look at Frank Gore. He was so injured at the University of Miami, they almost declared him officially dead. A third-round pick in the 2005 draft by the 49ers, Gore ran for 1,695 yards last season.
And obviously the 40 is limited as an indicator of success. The player Ginn has often been compared to, Devin Hester, ran a 4.51 at the combine, and then ran a 4.27 in a private workout. If you saw Hester at Miami, he was faster than everyone, so it shouldn't have made that big of a difference what he ran. The same can be said for Ginn.
Three head coaches were reportedly at Ginn's workout: the Dolphins' Cam Cameron (No. 9 pick), the Rams' Scott Linehan (No. 13) and the Bengals' Marvin Lewis (No. 18). I don't see the 'Fins taking him, but the Rams are a real possibility, even though there are reports Ginn could even fall to the later part of the first round.
If Ginn does fall past Cincy, he'll be a strong value pick, even if a team doesn't need a receiver. Drafting a receiver is tricky this year because there's a lot of depth at that position and teams likely think they can get a first-round caliber WR in the second or third rounds. Still, I think Ginn is worth the risk.
Let me know where you think Ginn will go and if he'll be a good pro.
he'll go late first round I think. He'll never be a "great" player, but he'll definitely have an impact. He'll always be a good returner, and as far as a receiver - at best, above average. That will mostly depend on the rest of teh offense surrounding him.
He'll probably go late first round. To a good team that needs a "piece", a good role-player. He'll always be a serious factor as a returner. As far as a receiver - at best, above-average. (only if he's surrounded by a good offense.)
I disagree with all these columns stating that Ginn is going to be a great pro receiver. Yes, I feel with a good recovery, he can become as dynamic a return man as Devin Hester was last year (well maybe not record setting) but as a receiver, I don't feel as if he was even the best wideout on his college team. That distinction should go to Gonzalez, who is slightly taller, much stronger, and a better route runner. Your thoughts?
he defnitely wasn't the best receiver. not even close. gonzalez was much better. much more reliable. ginn might not have been even #2. but he is a playmaker. a make or break type - and those kind of players score points, sell tickets (and get headlines) and are important to winning games. you need a couple of those on a team. Like an Eric Metcalf on the old Browns teams.
Ginn reminds me too much of Troy Williamson to project success at the next level. He thrived off of slower corners in college that simply could not keep up with him in college. In the pros, I don't think he will be able to capitalize. I project a late first round pick for him, possibly the Chargers. This years draft has too many other quality receievers for someone to take a shot on him sooner.
If Ginn slides in the first round to the Dallas Cowboys, I can't see them passing on him. Even if he isn't the greatest route runner now, that is something that can be coached. He has world class speed and you can't coach that. He reminds me of Terry Glenn, another Ohio State receiver, and I could see him being as good as he is someday. Right now he could return punts and kicks and he would be a very dangerous slot reciever. And with his deep speed down the feild, that would open up the middle sooooo much for Jason Witten and Terrell Owens. He would make an impact his rookie season and only get better with coaching.
I guess everyone forgot to watch the Buckeyes this season. #2 receiver at Ohio State? Please, OSU got demolished with Gonzalez as their only viable target against Florida. One of the main reasons that Gonzalez had an amazing season was because everyone was so focused on covering Ginn. Even with the other team's #1 corner covering him, Ginn managed to accumulate better numbers than Gonzo. I'd take Ginn with a top #10 pick and he would pay immediate dividends. Ginn is this year's Reggie Bush.
People bashing the ligitimacy of Ginn's ability either haven't watched him play, or they are morons. The reason Gonzalez got so much production this year (besides the fact he is a very solid receiver) is that opposing teams spent more attention to stopping Ginn. Like stated above, we saw in the national title what happened when OSU's best receiver wasn't on the field...oh, and by the way, we saw what great things happen when he's on the field too.
He's been a dynamic player everytime he's on the field, and he will continue to be a killer receiver in the NFL.
40 times are the most overrated aspect of a football player. It's about football speed and what he is on the field and he will be a game-changer. He gives teams an immediate down field threat which will strech the field for whoever drafts him. Frankly, I think he is a value pick in the top 10. Someone is going to get a great player.
I seriously hope he falls to #22 to the cowboys! I doubt he becomes a "great" reciever and especially not his first year or 2 but the impact he will make on returns and as a 3rd or 4th reciever will be unbelivable and with glenn and owens both in their early 30's he could be groomed to take over a starting spot fairly soon.
Times are decieving. Ginn would be a great fit with the Rams, he would have the benefit of 2 GREAT mentors, Bruce and Holt. Mr. Ginn should be very, very excited if he gets the nod from the Rams. It would also give the Rams some great return potential and scarey depth at receiver. What defensive coordinator would not lose sleep figuring out a way to contain these 3. Ginn would be heir apparent to Bruce.
Why do you publish times like "4.51" and "4.27" in the 40? These are hand-timed runs, right? Unless you have the sophisticated race equipment they use at the olympics you don't have a chance of getting accuracy to a hundredth of a second.
And then there is the factor of the time delay at the start. In a short sprint like the 40 a slow or fast start can make a huge difference in the overall time -- greatly distorting the measure of the runner's top speed.
And what this has to do with performance on the field is beyond me. Except for open-field chases, when the receiver gets behind the defense, it's not clear that sprint times are very relevant at all.
While I don't think it will happen, I'd love it if the Chargers were able to grab him. He's exactly what they need, a receiver who can really punish defenses for cheating in to try and stop their running game. All he'd need is a big play every once in awhile to keep that defense stretched out more, and that would allow LT to just eat up yards all day long.
As far as 40 times go, sure, they don't prove how great a player will be. Anyone remember Carlos Snow? Didn't think so. But a man who consistently gets off to a great start proves how quick he is, not how fast, like a 100m would.
For all these people saying that Gonzo was only as good as Ginn could make him due to all the extra attention he received from opposing defenses, I agree. But I look back at guy who physically was about the exact same as Ginn, a former Hurricane who was an explosive return man, decent route runner, as fast an olympic sprinter and a former top 10 pick who, and I may be mistaken, is no longer in the NFL. ANyone know who I'm talking about?
.....Peter Warrick. I liken Ginn to him. I seriously doubt Ginn's abilities at the pro level. The reason he looked so fast at OSU was because corners are much slower at the college level than in the NFL. Gauranteed 5 years from now, we won't know what team, if any, Ginn is on. Just like Mr. Warrick.
First of all, rex: Warrick played for Florida State and he wasn't a speed burner like Ginn is.
As a Cowboys fan, I can only pray to the football gods that Dallas does not pass up on Ted Ginn Jr. if he falls to them. Even if he needs to miss the first few games of his rookie season to make sure his foot heals, I want the Cowboys to pull the trigger.
Has everyone already forgotten what he did in college? He isn't just a straight ahead burner, he is a big play specialist and would be a great repalcement for the aging Terry Glenn. He would be a worthwile chance to take late in the round where the Cowboys sit.
But, of course, Jerry is back in charge so who knows what to expect from the draft...
Although Ginn is more likely to be taken than fall to their pick, I really think Ginn would look great in a Saints Uniform. His speed is a great compliment to Colston, and can you imagine adding him to an offense that already has Colston, Bush, Deuce, Brees, and company?.... scary
Blah, blah, blah....Everyone thinks they're an expert at predicting how a player will fare going from college to the pros. It's a crapshoot at best. Do you remember the names Ryan Leaf, Mike Williams, Akili Smith and so on? Considering his numbers in college, he probably deserves middle of the 1st round. Maybe he'll be the next Jerry Rice or maybe he'll be the next Mike Williams. Who knows?
Yo this guy is a baller, yes hes not the reincarnation of Jerry rice and never will be but im pretty sure that most NFL teams could use a guy like him . He played QB in HS and was the 2nd best player in the class of 04 after adrain peterson, He also came to OSU as a CB, and then got swtiched to WR, becasue of his sick playmaking ability; so his skills will get better and he will become more polished as a WR. i see him more like an Antwan Randel EL, type of player, who can return, run, catch and even throw once in a while, and that helps to keep defense on thier toes. He would become one of the best returners in the NFL from the start and hes an "X-factor" type of player who can change the game in one play, just like Hall, Bush and Hester. By the way if he ran a 4.4 at 75% and hobbled, i cant wait to see him fly in a month or two when he is at 100%. I wish my dolphins get him at #9, i dont care if its too high but our offense needs a HUGE spark ASAP.
Warrick is a horrible comparison. If anyone in this draft is like Warrick it's probably Steve Breaston. Good in the open field, decent quickness, lousy top end speed. Ginn may not be an elite receiver in the NFL but he's good enough to have an impact on any offense due to his speed, and he torched all of the top corners he faced this year (including two likely first rounders, Hall and Ross).
It's amazing to me that a "disappointing" time is a 4.38 for Ginn when it is followed by saying that he couldn't even complete his route running drills because his foot hurt. Now, if you want to knock him on his ability to recover fine, but how can you question a sub, 4.4 40 time at way less the 100%, especially when game film shows the guy blowing everyone off the field. If he falls to the bottom of the 1st round, some team is going to be very happy to take him, unlike a lot of the "fast" guys that have been mentioned as busts, ginn can actually catch making his speed even more deadly
Ginn might be good in the right offense. However, it seems like his physical gifts make it too difficult for him to avoid being snapped up by a bad team early on. Right now, it seems fairly likely that he'll end up going to the Titans at 19. Probably the wrong system for him. He'll still be an incredibly dynamic returner though, but as such, he'll probably end up as the next Dante Hall.
Number 30 to San Diego. Steps in immediately as KR and as number 3 receiver to open up the field for Jackson. Good for 35 receptions at about 17-20 yards per and 4-6 loooong tds on offense. Great value as KR and #2/3 receiver but never a number one. Not that good. Gonzalez number 35 to Tampa Bay. Other teams will take the bigger receivers before Ginn.
YOu guys who think Ted Ginn Jr. won't be a good pro are crazy. Lets not forget he was the #1 rated cornerback in the country when he went to OSU. He converted to wide receiver and his upside is enormous!! He will be an immediate contributer on special teams. He has done far more at the collegiate level than the likes of Hester. He has absolute world class speed that you cannot deny. The guy will be a difference maker and will only become more polished.
I think he will go at #19 to the Tennessee Titans. Their immediate needs are corner and receiver, but with revas and hall off the board they will opt to pick a receiver. They will pick Ginn because he fills a hole at the receiver posistion and a hole in the return game.
I love how everyone says he's not a good route runner. I'm sure you're all NFL scouts and you know what you're looking for. Or you're just repeating everything you've read. How about and go watch film of him running great routes against potential first round CBs Leon Hall and Aaron Ross (both of whom are not slow).
Ted is a first round talent, period. I do belive he'll slip a little though, but no past St. Louis. Just pretend your a Defensive Coordinator and sleep on this: Bruce, Holt and Ginn next Sunday...I bet you don't get much rest.
Those who feel that Ginn's speed will not be as much of a factor in the NFL are fools. Yes, NFL corners are generally faster than college corners, but they still lack world-class sprinter speed, which Ginn possesses. Based solely on speed, he could routinely blow by NFL corners just as much as college corners. Comparisons to Warrick and Williamson are ridiculous, because neither possessed the elite speed of Ginn. Keep in mind that Ginn ran 4.4 40s while not fully healthy (while I've read that Revis ran a "blazing" 4.4). Hmm.). If Ginn has issues, they will involve route-running or dropping passes due to running before he cleanly catches a ball. Just watch tape of Ginn running, note how smoothly he strides while pulling away from players straining to run their fastest. Don't make foolish comments or comparisons regarding Ginn's speed, because you won't find anyone in the NFL who has his speed. A better comparison might be Renaldo Nehemiah based on speed, but Nehemiah was a track star first and football player second, while Ginn is the opposite.
ginn is a so serious, I could see him in Jax. at #17. This is the perfect fit for our receiving core put him in the slot and defences will have to adjust. And lets not forget who was second in the league in rushing yards. Off the play action Leftwich to Ginn Jr. GET READY!
Ginn will take some time to get polished as a reliable NFL receiver but his return skills are there already. Move over Hester, you have some competition now. As where he should go, imagine him being teamed with Santonio Holmes again in Steeler Country. I know it will never happen because of team's needs but I can dream right? I am just intrigued on how the nation thinks he slow b/c of his 40 time. Watch his tape, he is fast.
Ginn could be a pick up for the Titans, he has decent receiving skills, great return instincts and has the wheels to get the deep ball and stretch the defenses, most of the other Titans WR/TE's are not deep runners....if the Titans go with Meacham or Bowe, he might drop into the 2nd round.
I'll go out on a limb and say that he goes to the Bengels. Why not? He's fast, they could use another receiver, not to mention a great special teams runner and he's not suspended or in jail. I think he'll make an impact middle-late season and be a star with the team in a couple of years.