Talk pro football with SI.com's Andrew Perloff in Huddle Up, a forum to discuss the hottest topics around the NFL.
4/29/2007 01:39:00 PM
Will Pats' dynasty survive?
Randy Moss had just 42 catches for 553 yards with the Raiders last season.
A sleepy Radio City Music Hall became a lot more animated after the Randy Moss trade. I was surprised by how many critics of the deal immediately emerged. One sportswriter instantly labeled them the "New England Yankees," and another said under his breath, "I hope this is the move that finally pushes this team over the edge and ends the Belichick dynasty." Another long-time observer of the Patriots said there's no way vice president Scott Pioli was behind this move, because it goes against everything their management team believes in.
New England built its dynasty on chemistry. The Pats haven't had more talent than everyone else, but they've had a nice system and players happy to do what Bill Belichick wanted. They remind me of Bill Walsh's 49ers. New England thrives on discipline and all its players look better than they actually are because they stick to the system.
Now Belichick is really testing his ability to keep the system in place by taking talented players he could get a little cheaper because of character questions. Belichick seemed a bit distracted last season. He certainly wasn't on his A game in that debacle in Indy. He was playing not to lose when the Pats blew a 21-3 lead.
As I wrote earlier, I still think New England is the prohibitive favorite to win Super Bowl XLII. But Belichick is going to have to keep a tight ship in Foxboro. If chemistry problems emerge, I'd expect Belichick to simply cut players mid-season like he did with Doug Gabriel last season.
There's no question the Pats are the team to watch in 2007. Let me know if you think they're going to win it all.
As a Green Bay Packer fan this was my biggest dissapointment on draft day. After failing to take a needed playmaker in the first round I thought it was inevitable that Moss would be playing catch with Brett Favre in Lambeau next year. Now with the trade to New England my Favre to Moss dreams have been crushed. I don't know what held us from getting Moss(probably contract negotiations) but now our playmaking hopes are thrust upon suspended wideout Koren Robinson opposite Donald Driver. Ted Thompson should have done anything in his power to aquire Moss. Needless to say I'm not a happy packer backer. -Chris, Green Bay
This trade further solidifies New England's quest for a fourth Super Bowl title. Where the Pats had a plethora of number 3 wideouts last season, Moss and Stallworth are legit number one targets. The addition of Welker (a younger version of Troy Brown) gives Brady a strong and reliable third down target. In addition, this team is built for the future, aquiring first and third round picks in the 2008 draft. With five picks in the first 3 rounds in 08, the Pats can re-tool and replace aging vets like Bruschi, Vrabel, Harrison, etc. Great moves by the Pats. They play the draft better than any other team in the league.
I wish you wouldn't crown the Patriots champs just yet. They seem desparate. With Brady's off field female issues and Belnichicks bringing in two Terrel Owens wanna-be's... the class is gone from this organization.
One fact is certain...the offense of the Patriots still isn't as good as the offense of the Colts, Period!! There is nothing the pats can throw at Peyton he hasn't seen. He'll still score a ton of points on them. They are no longer in Peyton's head. He rules them.
In my mind, the only thing that remains to be seen is can the colts keep their running game as potent as it was in the playoffs, and can their defense come together the way they did their last 5 games.
Well, if Moss aclimiates well in NE it's probably lights out for everyone else. The Pats have been a dynasty with less than stellar roster talent and now they might have the most roster talent of any team in the league.
PATS ARE GOING TO WIN THE SUPER BOWL. THEIR RECORD? 16-0. THEY BLOW OUT EVERYONE FINISHING THE 2007 SEASON 1ST ON OFFENSE AND 1ST ON DEFENSE. WATCH OUT NFL. THEIR IS A ZERO CHANCE THE PATS WILL NOT WIN THE SUPERBOWL. BE HAPPY PATS ROOKIES, YOUR IN FOR A SUPERBOWL RING. EVERY TEAM SHOULD JUST GIVE UP RIGHT NOW!!!!
The good doctor is missing one thing. The Colts have done nothing in the off season to improve their team except lose players and get older in the skill positions. And I would disagree that the Pats offense is not as good as the Colts. The Colts last year only averaged a little more than TWO points more per game than the PATS, while giving up 123 points MORE. And you are forgetting that the Pats scored 34 points on the "improved" Colts D.
San Diego beats the Pats by 14?? In the biggest game in 10 years for San Diego everyone from the head coach to the 53'rd man on the roster CHOKED. San Diego may have been "younger, stronger and faster", but they certainly weren't SMARTER or better COACHED. Last year was San Diego's best shot. Time for them to retool and make another run in 10 years or so.
New England didn't lose to Indianaplis because of Belichick, though I agree that he seemed distracated at times last season.
The Patriots lost to Indianapolis in the playoffs because their back seven on defense weren't up to the task of stopping the Colts' high-powered offense and because New England didn't have enough good receivers to provide a counterweight to its ground game. Think about the mediocre corps of wide receivers the Pats had last season and into the playoffs. It's a wonder they got as far as they did.
Now, with the addition of Moss, Stallworth, Wes Welker, and Kelly Washington, New England has a group of receivers that Tom Brady can depend upon. New England also drafted a multipurpose defensive back in the first round in Mariweather. I still think they need to bolster the linebacking unit, even with the addition of Adalius Thomas, but perhpas they have a plan for that, too.
While I will not say 16-0, I will say that my beloved Patriots should win it all this year. They are determined to win it all this year, and maybe the pundits are wrong in that BB wants to go for 3 in a row before he retires. I have followed the Pats since 1973, and these last 8+ years have been awesome for me. We must never forget our lean years, though. At one time we were worse then the Raiders, Browns and Lions put together. So lets get behind BB and the Patriot express as we churn our way to another title!
No. Randy Moss doesn't care enough about football to play every play. He said it himself he plays when he wants to play. Not a guy I would want on my team. Talent without work ethic doesn't cut it in the NFL. There is a reason he hasn't played on a winning team or been a pro bowl player. He doesn't work at the game and spends more time complaining than working.
Sorry but the Colts were given the penalty before the half making the game closer that 28-0 so fans would not turn off their sets. Then the interference call that never even took place. Pats had 13 players with the flue and over 100 degree temperatures and Rodney and even Jr who was awesome was out.
Steelers were almost robbed the year before and the Pats were robbed this year. I didn't even watch the SB for the shacky calls were horrible. Colts came back as the Pats D with Rodney out and no run stuffer like Jr around but it took shady calls to win it for Colts so don't talk like they were something special. Just go watch the game again. GIFT from the NFL.
Why that replay against the Steelers was so baddddddd. In front of the world they let the fix be known. BUT steelers still one. Well Manning you got your gift.
Dr. Joe - I know your handwriting is supposed to be poor, but what's with not knowing how to spell? And your self-given nickname, no less...
I'm no Patriots fan, but your support for the Colts seems to have blurred your vision. I hope you're not a surgeon.
First, to say the Patriot's look desperate ignores that they hold 5 picks in the first 3 round next year, including 2 in the 1st. Trading their second 1st round pick (28th) this year for (ultimately) Randy Moss and the 49ers' first round pick next year hardly looks desperate. Quite the opposite: the 49ers' '08 pick will likely be an earlier pick in a better rated draft.
Second, Moss and Meriweather are a far cry from Owens. I have a feeling Moss will respond to the Patriots' locker room, just like Corey Dillon before him. Meriweather's actions in the brawl, frankly, are far more worrisome than anything Moss has done, but he is still young and will have the chance to develop under the leadership of the Patriots' veteran leadership.
I do believe the Colts earned every bit of their impressive Super Bowl win, but it would be foolish to think that complacency will keep them at the top. While they seem to be sliding backwards while resting on their laurels, the Patriots are clearly making strides to regain their supremacy.
Too soon to crown them champs? Absolutely. But not too soon to swallow hard and circle Sunday, Nov 4, on the calendar.
YUP. THAT'S WHY THEY PLAY THE GAMES...TO SEE WHETHER THE PATS WILL IMPLODE AROUND MOSS OR NOT...THEY WON'T THOUGH. IT WILL BE A MIRACLE IF THEY GO LESS THAN 12-4 AND FIRST SEED IN THE AFC. SOME OUT OF WORK SNOWPLOW DRIVER DRUGGED THE PATS GATORADE IN INDY LAST YEAR...EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT. GO PATS. DYNASTY REBORN....
Everyone is saying don't crown them just yet, it's not right you don't know how the season will unfold, and yet tey turn around and say Randy Moss will make you bad, the dynasty is over, Donte Stallworth will drive you into the ground. I can agree that crowning them champs is premature, but to make claims like they have no more class and that their run is over are also premature. Pats fans deserve to be excited but not overzealous (like syaing we will go 16-0) and critics have a right to be skeptical without being complete pessimists. Wait a few months, thenwe'll see who's right.
The Niners didn't have talent? What drug is this idiot on? Rice? Young? Montana? Hall of Famers!!!
The fact is the Pats had a TON of talent. It was just underrated, and spread through a lot of players rather than just a few superstars. Then they lost a bunch of guys because of their success and became a bit less talented, in fact. Happens to SB Champs all the time.
I cannot believe clueless dolts like this get paid to write this gibberish!
I don't know what everyone is smoking, but the Pats are overrated, the Packers are OLD, the Colts are awful on D, the AFC in general is a bore, your gonna see T-Jack throw 70 touchdowns this year with Troy (that vertical bar don't mess me up) Williamson catching 40 and A.P. catching 30, with the D holding opposing rushers to -2000 yards, and the pass coverage picking off 37 balls, and the D-Line racking up 252 sacks for the year. What can I say, it is going to be a purple year. Vikings 117 Chargers 0. Super Bowl XLII. Boo Ya! Now, where are the papers?
BB is stocking up for one more run(before he resigns as hc of nep and takes over for coughlin). brady deserves to finally have legit receivers after the contract he took. afc still loaded thou - indy, denver, sd. itl be importnat for pats to get homefield so they can play some snow games and brady can work his playoff magic at foxboro.
The Pats are the New England "Spankees"? Perloff's article so beautifully highlights the true Spankee sportsfan/sportwriting mentality. If a non-NY team makes a great move (uh under the NFL equal footed salary cap not like the Spanks do it) then they grumble and whine.....all the while extolling the natural/inherent "Greatness" of the Spanks.....but here they go calling the Pats the NE Spanks....perfect contradiction...as usual. My thoughts? Boo freakin hoo. Go Pats AND Sox...
I believe next year it will be less embarrassing for teams to forfeit games to the Patriots rather than play them. Think about it. How do defend against an offense that will have T.Brady, L.Maroney, R.Moss, D.Stallworth, W.Welker and B.Watson on the field at the same time. Prediction: There will be alot of lop-sided games in NE's favor next year and the 21 game win streak record (that the Patriots own) may very well be in serious jeopardy. It's not fair. I feel bad for the rest of the NFL.
It is just sad to see a team go with so many players with character question marks as well as well known charchter flaws. This team use to be what major endorsers would turn to for that positive character image. I think this team is going to be the new Bengals of the 2007 season. If people want to watch drama unfold and Goodell to earn his money's worth, then stay tuned to this new Patriot team.
I was just watching Moss highlights on ESPN and when he wants it he can dominate.Plus finally giving Brady a TRUE go to guy...Dont forget it was Brady who made Branch(2nd round) and Givens(7th round) superstars and millionaires.To give Brady his 1st true #1 and stud reciever means only 1 thing SUPERBOWL # 4 for the Pats.
For the Indy fans who think they'll win it all again this year i'm sorry to say you've taken the wrong pill. Indy has lost a ton on talent on defense, mostly in the linebacker and secondary. Combine this with the fact that Brady now has legitimate talent with which to work with and Brady is going to have a 4000yard season easily. Brady almost got it done last season with a bunch of no name recievers (you cannot possibly tell me you knew who Reche Caldwell was before he became Brady's favorite target). As for defense they've improved. The front three was already feared and with the additions they made the defense should be ready to dominate. If Asante Samual decides to stop being a pansy and play for a champion the Pats will easily win the superbowl.
Randy Moss is not going to fit in anywhere, including New England. He is to self centered. Give him a few games when Brady passes the ball to someone other than Randy. Helmets will be flying on the side line. Big frown on Randy's face. Not a smart move by N.E. Besides, Randy is half the player he used to be.
I was just watching Moss highlights on ESPN.If he decides to play with heart and affort he can dominate.To finally give Brady a true stud #1 receiver should finally end the so called Manning / Brady debate.Dont forget it was Brady who made Branch(2nd Rd.)and Givens(7th Rd.) superstars and millionaires.Give Brady a couple of you throw it and I'll catch it guys means 1 thing for the rest of the league and Pats....SUPERBOWL BABY.
The Pats will clearly dominate all-comers this year; Peyton & Co, included. The entire idea of the Pats being a "classy" organization, however, is no more. That idea, though was create dby the media. There are three basic rules in the Pat's system: #1. Give your all #2. Don't buck the system or you're gone. #3. Win. Having class is a nice idea, but having a fourth ring come February will be much sweeter. Peyton had his moment in the sun, er - rain, last time, but that was a fleeting moment. Enjoy it while it lasts Colts fans, the Dynasty is still reigning. Now, it doesn't take doctor to realize that! (But I guess they don't teach logic or how to spell "extraordinaire" in med school.)
Moss was nothing in his last year with the Vikings and Ronald Curry eat his lunch last year. The Raiders had to beg for a 4th round pick for the bum. NE should have talked to the other AFC West teams that each played against him twice a year before they traded for him. The Raiders were so hard up to dump the guy they called the Bronco's who wanted no part of him. NE has not done anything for the past couple years. They are getting old and look like they are grasping at straws. Moss is like a cancer he destroys from the inside out. NE made a big mistake and they will not get near another Super Bowl with this wack.
The Patriots loss to Indy in the AFC Championship wasn't just because the defense gave up 32 points in the second half.
The reason the Patsies defense was out there getting pasted was because the Pats offense couldn't get a first down in the last few possessions of the game. Looking at the changes between the two teams in the off season, does anyone think the Patriots will have trouble getting the first downs now? The Patriots defense won't be on the field. And when they are, the Colts will have more than 32 points they need to make up.
Looks like the Patriots are building a Shufflin' Crew.
As a Pats fan, it is a great deal. they gave up the 4th round pick that they got from the niners, his contract is 3 million base, no signing bonus. if he sucks, or causes problems they can and will cut him with relatively no loss.
It would be one thing if they gave up a first rounder, but they gave up next to nothing.
Just a reminder to those bashing Randy Moss. Remember a few years back when the Patriots brought in another "troubled" played by the name of Corey Dillon? Nobody ever heard a peep from him after he finally made it to a team that gave 100% to winning it all. Hopefully Moss will be the same way. It has been a long time since he played on a decent team, to say nothing of a Super Bowl contender.
Really, would you be all that motivated if you were Moss and your team averaged a 3 and 13 record the past 2 seasons and showed absolutely no signs of getting any better?
Let's see ... "Will the Pats' dynasty survive?" I find it hard to believe the Patriots 'dynasty' is over. This is a franchise built for long term success. They've had a great run over 6 years, and if anything, their recent moves only solidify their chances for another sustained run.
With (hopefully) some detached objectivism, let's not fall in love with the players. Having a new influx of talent after years of losing their top receivers, and defensive leaders in the secondary, etc. it's easy for Patriot fans to get a heady rush of excitement.
The core of the team is still in place (Brady and Seymour). But it is essentially the organizational philosophy and strategy that has identified, drafted and brought in the talent (and got them to buy into their game plan). That and Belichick's solid gameplanning and coaching. As long as they have a supportive owner and Belichick-Pioli remain in place, they will continue to successfully execute their plan year after year. (and I think, even Pioli would be ultimately expendable as Belichick took him on and developed him)
Yes, they got lucky with Brady, but don't forget Belichick essentially took a mediocre team and transformed it into an elite unit within two-four years. (I think they got a bit lucky on their first SB, but this is sports. It happens.) The ability of Belichick-Pioli to consistently identify talent that works within their system, stick with not overvaluing a player in relation to the team's makeup, (and having the will to remove even popular players - from Bledsoe, Milloy, Law, Branch, etc) cannot be underestimated.
The only real threat to the franchise is if the overall NFL environment changed so significantly that their team-first approach was no longer optimal AND they do not have the flexibility to adjust. I find that unlikely in the near future.
So Patriots fans have reason to be optimistic (and probably confidently so). You can't prematurely declare them SB champs ... it feels like the 90s when the Yanks were dominating. The Pats have managed to survive an annual plethora of injuries (and talent drain) so I'm fairly certain - barring team wide catastrophic injuries - they have enough depth to consistently threaten for a SB run over the next few years, until Brady inevitably loses his elite edge. This is a team that can handle adversity.
Even when they do bring in people who don't work out (Beisel, Starks, and all the mediocre personnel at WR and DB) they quickly cut their losses and move on, without significantly putting a huge investment in them.
People who think the Pats are not an elite organization top-to-bottom are deluding themselves. I think Indy, Philly and Denver have organizations that will consistently produce, but I think NE does the important things enough to make them just that little bit better. They may not win all the SBs over the next 3 years (or even any) but their odds of doing so are probably better than any other team.
From a talent perspective, they've significantly retooled their roster on both sides of the ball and strengthened their future draft options. (I love their philosophy of trading down; even though I think their trades this year were good, they're willing to give the other team a little bit more value in a trade, as long as the Pats gain value as well. it's a non-zero-sum transaction)
I'm not sure how all the new WRs are going to handle this glut of talent. I would like to see Troy Brown return to the Pats on some level, even as a corner. The guy's getting old but he's such a gamer.
The addition of a re-motivated Moss was a no brainer. For a 4th rounder and a renegotiated contract, how can you not like this? If they ever have problems with Moss or Merriweather they will just move them in a hurry (especially so for an unproven commodity like Merriweather) I cannot see the Pats tolerating an Owens like situation . (As for the Moss-Owens comparisons from dr joe rose, I don't think Belichick would bring in Moss if he didn't think he wanted to win. Moss was a malcontent that got tired of losing - surely we've all experienced suck-ups who hate losing? but put him on a winning team and he will get the put a foot-on-your-throat attacking mentality again. As for Owens, I think he values personal glory over winning a SB. It's as simple as that. And dr joe, about last year's afc championship game - the pats uncharistically sat back on their heels in the second half. it looked to me like they ran out of steam. but as i understand it, they had stomach flu that affected their team hard. if you've ever been in intense competition when you've got the flu, you'd know what it's like to hit the wall after the adrenalin wears off. it's brutal. but injuries and stuff like this happens and they didn't complain)
I think the hype over Moss/Merriweather poisoning a veteran locker room is just fear mongering.
With a bag of draft picks next season, let's see how the next few years ride out for the Pats. If I had to money on it, I'm expecting a bloodbath once Brady-Moss-Stallworth-Mulroney-Watson take to the field.
Now lets be realistic, anyone can win on any given sunday so saying theyre a lock is not fair to the 32 other teams in the league. with that said, this is a good move. they gave up a 4th round pick, which they replaced with a higher pick in the san fran deal, so the risk factor is low. randy took a HUGE paycut, by re-doing his 2yr $21mil deal for a $3mil + $2mil incentive 1 year deal. its also reported he ran a 4.39 40yrd dash. he should be fine and be much more productive then he was in oakland - hes not going to 100% of what he was in minny but the pats dont need that.
as for the playoffs last year, the pats played smarter then the chargers and deserved to win the game after they made a multitude of dumb decisions.
the reason why they lost the colts game was due to the defense had a string of injuries, a bad interference call, heath evans brain fart and a dropped ball. Colts took advantage and thats that.
as for the free agent signings and the pats "moving away from their formula" look at it this way. The formula is to bring in good players at a good value. so far all the pickups meet the requirements, adileus took less money, stallworth contract is incentive laden, washingtons is too, welker a slot and kick return threat with a very manageable contract and now we have moss in the same category.
as for character issues, lets first get past the all the marijuana smokers. while they cant be using it during the season as theyd test positive, i think we'd be very naive to think that most of the players in the nfl, or any high school or college, havent smoked weed at least once.
rodney and corey were both thought of a loose cannons and malcontents yet they both worked out pretty well and moss and marriweather should do the same. it is known that the pats dont take any crap from anyone and will ship off/cut someone as fast as they brought them in.
the pats will be fine, theyve gotten younger, faster and more explosive. by all accounts it seems like it was a tough year for bb personally and hopefully hes gotten things straightened out.
the pats are not changing their formula. the pats are evolving the formula.
there success has put them in the position to have guys come to them at a discount (adelius), guys go there to rebuild careers (at a discount) (stallworth, washington, moss) and a place where guys with troubles can get a fresh start and back on the right track (merriweather).
I have to laugh - New England got a steal with the Randy Moss deal. He had great stats with a Viking offense that had D. Pep (out of league soon) and the ownership was cutting every corner before the fire sale of the team. The Raiders had High School level offensive cord. and coaches with a High School level O-line. Moss is a WR in a team game. Now that he is on a great team you'll see what he still do (4.29 in 40 this week) and the fear he commands on the other side of the ball. Brady is going to be a heck of a Fantasy Football play next year because all the other WR will be Wide Open.
For anyone who says that the Patriots Dynasty is over, your stupid. If you don't remeber the Pats traded a draft pick for Corey Dillon, and everyone said that he was a head case and that he would not work in the Patriots system. Well look at what he did that year. He shattered the patriots rushing record for one season, came in thrid in the whole year in rushing, and also helped them when there thrid super bowl. Bill will work Moss this year jusst like he did with Dillion and they'll win at least 2 or 3 more Super Bowls
The Pats aren't the Yankees. The Yankees try not to take trash guys like Moss, Stallworth, and Merriweather. It'll be interesting to see when Moss pulls his "I'm taking this play off crap" and see how Brady Or B reacts.
ok the colts are having a bad offseason and well there gonna pay for it in the playoffs but the pats arent just gonna breaze through the season there not nearly as good as the 85 off or D put together. the colts are still gonna give them problems the colts are still the best team but i will say pats win cause the colts cant stop the pats passing game but randys not gonna be the one its gonna be dounte stallworth he's fast but we'll see.. and i still luv my colts
does anybody remember when dillion came to new england? ok good. who can blame moss for not wanting to play for the Raiders? i mean come on there the Raiders. The Patriots are already giving him a one strike and your out policy. Moss may do stpid things but he is not an idiot and will not risk getting kicked off a team that is a super bowl contender and already being picked as a big favorite to win it all. Becuase he does not want to end up playing with another bad team. becuase everyone knows if he gets kicked off the patriots the only teams that would take him are teams desperate for fans and attention.
what the heck is everyone in here thinking...yes, the patriots are vastly improved and yes, they had a pretty strong team last year but to guarantee they will win the super bowl...that is nothing short of ridiculous not to mention the outlandish claim that they will go 16 -0. People be rational there is a reason that this scenario has only unfolded once before. I personally like the Steelers but I am not going to say that they absolutely will win it picking one team against picking the field is just doomed to fail. I love Sports Illustrated but people who are hired to do this job still can't accurately predict the scenarios that will unfold over the course of a season. Brady could very easily get injured so think about stuff before making outlandish claims about their dynasty. And just for the record I respect the hell out of most of the Patriots players including Tom Brady but their coach is an asshole and there is no way around that.
You know what Randy Moss is to the Patriots? A fourth Round Draft Pick. He's a gamble, and if it works out, great. If it doesn't, not much lost. So sad, so bad Randy - and he knows it. Its a chance for him to prove himself, and if he can't, he's out. Brady has plenty of options without him. They don't need him, but if he chooses to, he has his last chance to be a Superbowl champion. Just as in free agency, and just aws in the first round, they saw a weak incoming class and used the off season to do something creative.
It is way to early to talk about how the Pats will win it. But the Question Perloff brings up is interesting. The Patriots do have a Yankees vibe about them. They won developing from within, developing draft picks and signing complimentary players in free agency. Now, their three major acquisitions are closer to Yankee moves. Yes, they took the best player in free agency, but then took on two high baggage/high risk receivers. This is very Yankees like.
Im curious to how many sportswriters have jobs. Who ever the guy saying "The New England Yankees" should look at the simple hard truth that the patriots have the same playing field as the raiders. Everyone in the NFL has a salary cap which is completely different than that of baseball where the yankees and red sox completely outspend their counterparts. The yankees have players that make equal to the payroll of other teams. What it has come down to with the patriots is management. They find the gems in the drafts, FA wires, etc.. and get the most from those players. Why didnt anyone call the colts, the darlings of the NFL, the yankees after they went and gave HUGE contracts to Peyton, Harrison, and company? Cause they showed soem reserve and didnt give Edge his money? Look people, fans or no fans of the patriots, at least admit that you'd want the leaders of the pats running your own organization. Theres has to be a reason that not many teams in the NFL have had the same amount of success in the same time period the pats have. Oh and btw to the colts fans out there, kudos! You won a super bowl, outstanding. But lets see if you can win 2 more in the next 3 seasons, see if you guys will continue with the praising of ur colts...
And once again Pats fans come out of the woodwork and prove why everyone in the league hated them. Arrogance galore. Trash talking the team that won the Super Bowl this year while beating them in the process. Pats fans and Red Sox fans are the worst.
I must disagree with you, Andrew. I'm no fan of Moss and have cooled a bit on the Patriots as well over the last couple of years, but I think Belichick will be able to handle Moss. I remember a few years back the Patriots signing a disgruntled troublemaker from Cincinatti named Corey Dillon and he became quite the model citizen. Belichick has done this before and I think he'll manage well enough a second time around.
Bad move by the Pats. They didn't give up much, but Moss' selfish 'me first' attitude destroys team chemistry. He stopped caring in Oakland because they were losing? Well boo freaking hoo. With his salary, he should have taken it like a man and given 110% regardless of how badly the Raiders were playing. For those of you who think this joker is going to help the Pats, you're sadly mistaken. Besides, weren't Donte Stallworth, Wes Welker and Kelley Washington enough? They were one minute from the Super Bowl without those guys, and they are a HUGE improvement over Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney. The Pats are my team, but I think this was a terrible move that will end up ruining what has otherwise been a great offseason. All it takes is one bad apple...
Not going to pretend I viewed all comments, but read some...Moss can be a superstar no question. Stallworth a deep threat. Now you have two deep threats who don't want to do short routes. Wes welker gaffney the tight ends will do these fine. Nice additions. Randy likes winning that'll be enough for him to be quieter.
Not equalling the addition of those three recievers is the addition of anthony gonzalez to the colts. I think of the offense when peyton set all the passing records with stokely in the slot. Not comparing the two because their white but because they are fearless and run great routes. Colts will be more fun to watch on offense this year.
The Pats have traded their 1st round pick for a probably higher 1st round pick next year in what is projected to be a stronger draft. In addition they have gotten Moss for $3M. If Moss acts up and the Patriots simply cut him, they will have done fine with this trade, so their downside is very limited. The only real way they can lose is if Moss acts up, affects team chemistry, and they do not cut him. I think the Pats are unlikely to let that happen.
Overall, I think that almost everyone will agree that the Pats have done significantly more to upgrade their team than any other contender. I believe that this has to make the Patriots the favorites. However, even if they were prohibitive favorites, an injury to Brady or several other key players, a bad game in the playoffs, or chemistry problems can easily keep them from ring #4.
Before free agency and the draft, the market at tradesports.com had Indy (~13% SB winner) as clear favorites over the Pats (~7%). Now, the Pats are up to ~15% while Indy has slipped to ~11.5%. This demonstrates that the market clearly believes that the Pats have upgraded themselves significantly this off season while the Colts have not. However, the market clearly does not think that the Patriots are anything close to a lock.
I went to a Red Sox game with David Halberstam last year. He told me the painstaking details of the Corey Dillon signing. They talked to his Pop Warner and high school coaches before they signed them. Also Moss is the one who has something to prove if he wants to be a hall of famer or another David Thompson, a once in a lifetime player who never fulfilled his destiny.
The New England "Yankees"?!? Last time I checked, the Yankees OVERPAY all their players to get them to come play in NY. New England convinces players to take a PAY CUT to come to NE because the players want to play in NE's winning system. It goes to show how much supposed sportswriters actually know about sports. Ever heard of the NFL's salary cap? The Pats get a possible Pro Bowl receiver for a 4th Round pick and a reasonable salary. If Moss doesn't buy in to the system, they cut him and lose only a 4th round pick in a weak draft. No risk, high reward move for the Pats. Once again, Belicheck and Pioli fleece the NFL.
I am a NEP fan. I remember the days of Grogan, Cunningham and Morgan.1976,1985 and being 1-15 under Rust.We have paid our dues, and I say we because I am also a season ticket holder who has driven from Maine to Foxboro no less than 6 games per year for 17 years. There was a time when season ticket applications were taped to every number of the aluminum benches of "Schaefer,Foxboro Stadium" because no one went to the games.We were the laughing stock of the NFL. But no more, thanks to the Kraft family "fan and owner" the Pariots are now among the NFL elite. Consider the fact no other team has had the success in the salary cap free agent area.No other team has won back to back titles in this era. Denver did so, but only by circumventing the cap figure http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4191/is_20040917/ai_n10039728 Which also should require an * next to their 2 SB wins. No one should criticize NE, but learn from them. To compare them to the NY Yankees is ignorant. There is no salary cap in baseball... I think this is Belichick's last hurrah, and sadly the ride will end. One last comment, Beware the Jets, Mangini is the real deal....
Moss will have his best season since he was a rookie. He wants to win and he is now with a winner. I'm sad that the Vikings ever let him go he is/was the most amazing receiver ever check out his highlight career. He gets a bad rap but the guy is absolutely amazing I think he will have 1500 yards 100+ receptions and over 20 TD's this year.
Could someone tell me who plays defense for the Patriots these days? Cause I don't know. Perloff/King/Banks don't seem to know either, or else they're conveniently willing to forget that their linebackers are old and slow, and they have a secondary that is routinely decimated by injuries. And I'm sorry if I don't think that Adalius Thomas is going to make much of a difference. When this team won Super Bowls it was because they had talent on defense -- that talent is now gone, either because of age or management's neglect of that side of the ball.
A large part of the reason Moss sucked in Oakland (and became a malcontent) was because he never had anything resembling a decent QB to throw the deep ball (or any ball at all, for that matter) to him. Now, he has Brady (arguably one of the best of all time) throwing him the ball. Don't forget, Moss took a 6 mill garunteed paycut, has a re-structured contract (if he screws up, he gets the boot), and has said he is excited to play in NE, and fine with not being THE ONLY go-to guy. Read his comments, he has come to the conclusion that his legacy will be judged by wins (SB wins) more than merely insane stats... and has said he will do whatever he can to keep himself from doing something stupid. He wants to win, he is willing to make sacrifices and change his bad habits, and he is on easily the BEST team he has EVER been on (possibly one of the best teams in the NFL since Montana's 49ers). This is a GREAT move for the Patriots.
Let me start by saying that it doesn't help a whole lot to argue between the colts and the patriots. That is a rivalry that at least for the last few years and the near future will not have many people in the middle saying "I don't much care who wins." The question is will the Patriot's dynasty survive. I think that it really does depend on how you are defining dynasty. I think that without question the Pats are going to be one of the best teams in the AFC and by default the NFL, however I also think that it is too soon to just crown them champs. A team that has tons of talent on it is not a guarantee of a super bowl (see colts before last year, chargers for last three or so, or kansas city's offense for the last few years). And a team with little known talent on it does not necessarily guarantee failure (see the patriots). In fact, the Patriots became successful, as has been previously noted here, by taking relative unknowns and building them into talented individuals who work as a unit. The reason, I think, that this has served the Pats so well in the past is that by being the team that developed previously untalented or unrecognized players, they have also instilled a sense of pride within their organization by that player. That player now wants to win for the organization that gave him a chance. When you go outside of your organization to bring in already developed talent, sometimes the person who you bring in comes in with their own agenda and/or beliefs. I won't say that Randy Moss will not work in NE. What I will say is that there is a significant chance that he will not work out as well as some people may think. There is a definite risk in bringing in a player like Moss who has documented problems with teams in the past and has a tremendous ego. People change, and Moss might when working with serious Super Bowl contenders, but he may not. My prediction is that NE will go through some growing pains this year and still make the playoffs, while remembering mind you that they play in a weak division. I won't go so far as to say that they win the SB, but I will predict at least two incidents this year involving ego by one of their players brought over from someone else's system. So to sum it up, if you believe that dynasty means having a good record, then I don't see the Patriots having too much trouble continuing. If you refer to dynasty as winning a super bowl, then by definition the patriots haven't had one for at least two years, and are unlikely to regain the "dynasty" tag for at least one more. Good luck to both the Patriots, who look to induct new players into their system, and the Colts, who hope that an even weaker defense can pull together and have another good season, at least when it matters most. I look forward to seeing them play each other, as their rivalry has become one of the most entertaining and emotional ones over the entire NFL season. Part of me wishes that one of the teams was in the NFC so we could see who usually pan out to be the two best teams in the whole league play each other in the Super Bowl, instead of the divisional or AFC championship games.
People forget that Moss has never had any problems with teammates, unlike TO. Moss is simply ultracompetive and a sore loser. Losing will not be a problem with the Pats. New England has to be favored to win it all right now
Pats as the New England Yankees? Give me a break. They play with the *same salary cap* as every other team in the NFL and have succeeded far more based on team effort than overwhelming star-power. I think they've earned the right to acquire a few stars now and then. Particularly after last year when they let their best receivers depart and stuck Brady with a bunch of nobodies while the team had millions in available cap space for the year.
As for Moss, I hope it can work out as well as (or better than) Corey Dillon did in NE, but if there are problems, the Pats can easily show him the door. They won't have nearly the kind of commitment to him that, say, Philly did to TO. The potential benefit is well worth risking a 4th round pick on.
I have heard this 'oooh, they've destroyed their chemistry!' song before. Heard it loud and clear with Corey Dillon (whoops, won the Super Bowl anyway); heard it after they cut Lawyer Milloy (whoops, won the Super Bowl anyway); even heard it some when they got Rodney Harrison (whoops...you get the idea).
Moss *will* shape up in New England. If he doesn't, he'll be gone. If he's gone, all we lost is a 4th round draft pick. I predict he'll shape up. Because people come to the Patriots to win Super Bowls. And when he does shape up, and the Pats win another, I'll enjoy all you JEALOUS people eating some more crow.
The Pats have officailly become the Washington Redskins of the AFC. Congrats on picking up a bunch of big name guys and trying to win with them. The Skins do this every year in a weak division and look what its got them the last 5 years, one playoff loss. So dont sit here and tell me that a broke down Stallworth, who missed half of last season with a hamy injury, and a burnt out junkie in Moss, and a guy from the the Cincy jailbirds, Washington, are all of the sudden going to be model citizens and play together. They still have that same OLD defense, and now they added a bunch of washed up has beens.
NE made great moves this offseason. They are setting up to become super bowl contenders for the next few years. They are getting most likely a top 15 pick in next years draft( a much stronger draft than this years) and also have there own 1st pick and an additional 3rd rounder from the niners. Meriweather had a gun legally when he was getting robbed at gun point, it's called self defense people. Can't compare him to Pacman. Other players with character issues have come into the nfl and shined. If moss is a problem then they will just cut him and go back to the receiving core they brought in which is still very good. People are over reacting to this stuff big time. The veteran leadership in the patriots locker room is much stronger than one guy w/ an attitude problem.
This trade will ultimately work out and help get the Patriots another Super Bowl because Moss knows that he has a chance to get a ring with this organization, and he wants to win. The scenario in Oakland was a losing one, so he didn't care because no one held him accountable for his actions. In New England, the staff will hold him accountable and he will readily play and work his butt off because of that Brady guy.
i agree with some of the above posts: when anyone makes a big move, dare i say the move of the offseason, yankee-lovers bitch and moan. it's ridiculous. the pats are a classy organization. how many times did we hear, "corey dillon won't fit in anywhere" or "dillon is a selfish player who just cares about himself"? well, guess what, like doug gabriel and all the other selfish guys - deion branch and ty law to name two - who don't fit our mold, get axed. the pats don't create personal connections with anyone, even fan favorites and class-guys like lawyer milloy, adam vinatieri, and troy brown. they have one purpose: win championships. randy moss is a great pick up. and for a fourth rounder, are you kidding? there was NO ONE left in the fourth round with half of moss' talent, not to mention his experience and presence on the field. if he doesn't fit, he's gone. but here's the kicker, a 9 year vet with 101 td catches but no ring, sounds an awful like a former rushing goliath who had "character issues" as well. and corey dillon fit the mold. shared time. took less carries. and got the ring he wanted. moss will make every effort to win a ring. and then, for all pats fans care, he can retire a happy man like dillon is doing. and we'll be happy for him. everyone is just upset, as well they should be that their gm's wouldn't pull the trigger and get a premiere wideout. who is going to challenge us this year? who can stop our wideouts with brady at the helm? no one. moss will push the corners and safeties back a few yards, which will open things up for maroney, watson, and welker. by the way, our defense is revamped too. meriweather is an impact player and will make an immediate difference in the secondary. hello superbowl championship number 4 in new england. sorry coltheads, it'll be a long time before you guys repeat.
For those of you who feel that the Pats are selecting bad character players, maybe you've forgotten the Belichick MO - collect a lot of talent at a problem position and let them battle for a spot on the team. Those that respond stay and those that don't are cut. The Pats can cut Moss and Stallworth and not pay much of a price. Merriweather is another situation. They must feel that Rodney H. can be an effective guiding influence for him
Isn't it funny how Patriots fans whine and complain about officials making bad calls against them?
Yes there were quite a few poor calls in the playoffs last year, but for the past several years, I, as a fan of football, have had to sit around and watch the Patriots get countless calls to go their way, both in the regular season and in the playoffs.
The Colts won last year because they played the best football when it counted, not because of poor officiating. Quit crying about it and gear up for the 2007-08 season.
Randy Moss is half the player he used to be...good one. Sometime between the end of the season and the draft, he decided that if he were to get out of Oakland and get teams interested, he would need to hold a workout. He did, and the slowest 40 yard dash time he ran was a 4.32 (the fastest being a 4.29).
this guy "snnyjcbs" who posted before me is a clown. The Pats haven't done anything in two years, huh? The fact is that they should of won it all the past two years and have 5 rings by now. You can't say that two years ago in Denver the game wasn't affected by the horrendous officiating despite the pick that Brady threw to Bailey (I still think that Watson caught up to him and pushed him out of bounds at the 1).
As for last year,after beating "the best" on their own field in SD, everyone saw a Pats squad that was ravaged by the flu kick the snot out of the Colts in the first half. And then came the collapse in the second half (I still can't understand how someone with eyes as big as Caldwell's can miss a pass that hits him right between the numbers on his jersey)..... I just hope that when the Colts open the season on prime time Thursday, the director tells one of his cameramen to zoom in on a thermomerter inside the RCA Dome. I bet you it will read a comfortable 72 degrees.
Moss won't be a distraction. The Patriots simply won't allow it. Moss took a huge pay cut to be a part of the team because he wants to win.I not ready to crown the Pats champs yet - they still have to play the games- but there is no denying how stacked this team is this year. This team will be very interesting to watch.
I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan and just when I was starting to feel good about my team I see the headline "Moss goes to NE". At that moment I felt the season was pointless and they should just hand the trophy to the Patriots. I mean this is a team that has won championships with journeymen, think about the damage they could do with this roster? But once I started to think about the roster I realized something, there are not that many people left from the original 01-02 championship team. You couple that with the addition of players with "questionable attitudes" and you realize there are less Brady's, Bruschi's, & Vrabel's and more Moss's, Stallworth’s, (there is a reason why Sean Payton gave up on him) & Meriweather’s. I am not saying that it isn’t going to work, but don’t automatically think everyone will fall into line either. There is a different locker room now in the Boston area.
remember, Moss renegotiated his contract down to $3mm from $9.75mm. That shows some willingness to put his money where his mouth is, and contradicts the argument that he's selfish and more interested in his own stats than winning football games.
On a similar note, it should be remembered that both Stallworth and Washington reportedly were offered more money by other teams, but chose to join the Patriots.
There seem to be a number of talented veterans who are joining the Pats this year for some reason other than money.
Maybe it's chemistry, maybe it's the lust for a ring. Either way they're not likely to self-destruct, and if they start to do that either Belichek or Pioli or Kraft will tighten the reins. The dynasty will reign some more.
the pats did the right thing by getting moss. the guy simply just wants to win. dillon was the same way. moss has all the money he needs in life. now its time for a championship and he's on a team that has a legit chance of getting to the superbowl instead of being on the raiders who deserve to play in the sub-par bowl. losing and losing can make anyone bitter. he's no exeption. a competitor like moss always wants to win and want to be on a team that gives them the best shot.
Patriots trade out of first round at #28 for SF's first round selection in 2008 AND 2007 FORTH ROUNDER - pick #110.
Patriots trade 2007 forth round selection pick #110 to Oakland for WR Randy Moss who has let's see um..10'000 yards and 101 TD Receptions in 9 years, he also reportedly ran a 4.29 40 in front of area scouts...so, even if he lost a step, a sub 4.3 is enough to get deep, trust me!
The Patriots play on the same playing field under the salary cap limit as all the other 31 teams. Baseball has no salary cap.
Not all Pats fans are full of themselves, some of us believe Denver poses a serious threat (they always seem to beat us), Indy is still the champion until somebody de-thrones them, and San Diego still has boat loads of talent...Baltimore now has McGahee...
The key is staying healthy and humble and hungry which Coach Belichick preaches, I believe the Pats will stay humble, healthy, and hungry based on past history.
Brady, Seymour, Harrison, Bruschi, Brown, and Vrabel - team captains run the locker room and set the example!
Prediction: 12-4 regular season vs. a tough schedule and a 4th Super Bowl Title with plenty of class along the way...it is never easy as the NFL has strong parity and great fan bases everywhere (Oakland, Cleveland, Philly, Dallas - fans are pasionate and very knowledgable)!
What sportswriter labeled the Patriots the New York Yankees??? The Patriots play in a league where they have the exact same salary cap as every other team. The only way to win consistantly is to be consistantly well-managed.
In baseball, a team like the Yankees or the Red Sox has an unfair advantage over teams that have far less to spend. If baseball were run like football then the Minnesota Twins would be a dynasty.
Don't hate the Patriots. Admire them. They do things right.
To the poster at 11:49 p.m., are you serious? The Colts have been to the NFL what the Lakers of Kobe and Shaq were to the NBA - they both had the officals roll out the red carpet for them routinely. While the Pats caught a break in the Oakland game years back - and a disputable one at that - they have been on the losing side the past two years in the play-offs because of horribly officiated games - bad P/I calls and non-P/I calls being the main method. And it was much the same in the past two regular seasons - though there were a few times in 2006 they should have been called for unsportsmanlike conduct and weren't. But that was two or three times, not every game all season, as was with all of the many Colts games I saw. The fix was in for the Colts from game one last year. I think any serious NFL fan not living in Indiana would agree with this assessment. They do in Chicago. Re. the play-offs, I live in Chicago and it was a very hot topic after the AFC game. "Ripped-off," were the exact words. Same went for the Broncos game the previous years: "Ripped -off." Watch the Colt's games again and count the non-stop holding not called against the Colts all season, starting with their season opener against the Giants. It was disgusting. I kept thinking, "Just like the 2000 Lakers." Manning got his finally - and I cannot fault him in this one bit. Is was not his fault the fix was in, and I think he would have been a deserving SB winner sooner or later, but this one seems tainted to me. So let's get real. Everybody is entitled to an opinion, but let's keep our feet on the ground, why don't we? Ask yourself honestly, "Would I rather have gotten the Pats' off season pick-ups or the Colts'?" Not for nothing, their is a reason every sports writer is saying the Pats have kicked butt in this off-season while the Colts have lost ground. As a fan, I am more concerned about the Jets, Ravens and Broncos than the Colts. It should be an interesting season, to say the least.
Actually I have to say that I saw highlights of a game that the Raiders were winning last year and Moss was firing up the bench... Saying stuff like "Yo that´s the way to play the game..etc." BB said that Moss is an intelligent player.. On that statement, I have to differ, but, I do believe that Moss will not be a problem in the NE locker room... He´ll be jacked because his team will be winning. If he turns bothersome, guys like Harrison, Bruschi, and Seymour will punch him in the mouth..Literally!!, and send him packing.
pats are definately the favorite now, IF harrison stays healthy. to me it just seems like new england is a completely different defense with him v. without him (see AFC championship game).
and to get moss for such a low price (4th rounder that was originally SF's that we got when we traded our low 1st round slot this year for a better slot next year) makes it all the better. not worried about character junk. listened to a long interview with him; he's overwhelmed to be in such a good situation right now. since brady still threw pretty well with his receivers last year, i can't wait to see what he does with moss, stallworth, and welker by his side this year.
great deal. what i don't like is all this talk about how "the future is now" and "patriots making one final push for belichick". i don't see them fading away anytime soon. it's not like they've traded away every draft pick and all their young talents. five picks in the first three rounds next year doesn't seem too bad to me. plus, i don't anticipate brady dropping off anytime soon...
I should start off this comment by stating that I am a Colts fan, so excuse my biased opionion.
I think both supporters and opponents of the Moss trade are blowing this out of proportion. The Moss signing in itself won't have much impact, good or bad. Reasons being
1) Even if Moss ends up being a disappointment, it doesn't hurt the patriots that much. 2) Moss isn't the same type of receive he was at a young age. He may still have great speed, but his ability to burst off the scrimmage has considerably dropped. If you havent noticed Moss takes a longer time to reach his peak speed, which gives enough time for even the most mediocore CB to cover him until the QB looks for other options. 3) (Assuming the Patriots are stacking up to defeat the Colts) - Moss' deep threat capabilities won't be much of a factor because the Colt's cover 2 scheme's point is to prevent the big plays, something the colts have been successful at. Point being, the Colts wont be beat on deep throws. The way to pick this defense apart is by running the ball down the middle. 4) People are considering the Patriots heavy favorites now, but I wish people would remember that the Patriots won three super bowls because of their defense. Their defense was what carried that team, despite all the attention received by brady and vinateri during that time. Signing Thomas was a great addition, however this defense is still far from being the premier defense of the league. The recent offensive signings won't make up for the defense's holes. 5)I still think the Colts are the favorites, just because of their offense. Yes they lost a few starters through free agency, but those guys were interchangeable and the Colts defense weren't exactly "great" even with them.
Randy Moss is a punk. He maybe the most TALENTED punk to have ever worn the purple of the Minnesota Vikings. His first two years as a pro, Moss played like a man posessed, trying to show up teams that passed on him in 1988. He started out like a hall of famer, but unlike Jerry Rice, Moss does not have the work-ethic, drive, professionalism or self-disciplinethat Rice demonstrated in his career. I think that at New England, Belichek is not going to have to crack the whip-the players will police Moss, and if he proves to be a cancer, the Pats will not hesitate in dumping him.
Will the Pats win it all...? Perhaps. I certainly hope so. Pats' fans have a bit of a swagger but they are the same fans who cheer on the Sox. While they are the BEST team around, we tend to have a be of scepticism in reserve.
The choice to pick up Moss is not an uneducated one. BB does his homework and insists that his players, coaches, trainers, etc. do the same. If there is a problem, BB will squash it immediately.
Last season's loss was an abberation. There were two bad dropped passes that were not Brady's fault, but he shook hands and left the field. He is a competitor. he does not have excuses, only reasons. He (and moreso BB since he has mentored him in this way) look at the reasons and look for future fixes. Hence Moss et al...
The Pats the Yanks of football? Not a chance. They did it with a salary cap. They did it with a local fan base and a lot of smart choices and a little luck. The Pats enjoy the past and strive to be the best in this present season, every season. The Yanks and Steinbrenner look to it as an entitlement.
The Sox are my team. I love them more than anything (except my kids, but my wife should beware). They are doing a great job. I just hope they can learn a thing or two about the team concept. They did it in '04. They seem to be having fun and striving this year. Hopefully they lead the way and the Pats can make it two tickertape parades for the great city of Boston.
Randy Moss will get $1MM guaranteed with a couple more in incentives for 2007. If he becomes a distraction, the Pats cut him and move on. If he behaves himself, they have a deep threat that will free up their "under" passing game.
I'm a Dolphins fan, so anytime I see the Patriots make a move that should improve their team, I get a little sick. I hope the Patriots crash and burn soon, but I don't believe that Moss will be the spark to light that fire of turmoil. I don't believe Randy Moss makes them an instant Super Bowl team, but he does give you something you need to be aware of if your on the other teams defense. Moss won't see the production here that he did in Minnesota, but he shouldn't be such a non-factor as he was in Oakland either. New Englund runs a passing offense that revolves around precise route running by it's receivers. It also involves them searching for gaps in the opposing defense and settling there until Brady can find you. So you need to have tremendous field awareness, plus the ability to run routes to play in this system. Moss is only good at going vertical, and Brady doesn't have that kind of arm and New England's offense doesn't go vertical too often. Moss's presence, and deep threat, should open up a lot of space underneath, which is what New England likes to do. So Moss will probably come up short statistically, but if he plays hard to win, they should have an easier time finding other open receivers. That's the question mark: if Moss can stay happy playing outside his vertical game and losing reception opportunities for the good of the team. He's going to be used as a decoy, and they like to spread the ball around. This is a guy that demanded that 60% of Dante Culpeppers throws be directed his way. So can he stay happy, not being the man on a winning team? Moss for a fourth rounder is a good trade regardless. Plus he is restructuring his deal too. If they fix the problem with Asante Samuel, I mean by re-signing him, then I would make this a favored team to go to the Super Bowl, until then they are a favored team to win the AFC East.
By game three of the preseason you should know how well the Moss experiment is going for the team, and that will clear up that question mark. Now is just too soon, because Oakland became a favorite to win or challenge for the AFC West with his arrival. They never came close, and took a step back. We also know they never played him to his strengths, and he never wanted to learn how to play into their system. So think about that before you crown them Super Bowl champions today.
Yup........Belichick was distracted last year.......especially against the Colts.....holding puke buckets on the sideline as the Pats were gassed in the 2nd half from being sick from the flu all week. Lets just say with the additions of Mr. Thomas on defense and all the new weapons on offense.....plus all the new no names added.....the Pats recipe for success will further be enhanced.......nice ring "The New England Yankees"... nice to know as long time season ticket holder I'll be very entertained again this year
Don't want to get into all the other Moss aspects, just wanted to address the couple of posters claiming the Pats have no defense when last year, they were:
6th in yds./game 5th in rushing yds/game 12th in passing yds./game 2nd in points/game 8th in 3rd down percentage 1st in 4th down percentage
Their defense is plenty fine and their linebacking corps is the only "old" groups on the team, the secondary's only old player is Harrison and the drafting of Meriweather will hopefully address that need. On the offensive side of the ball, they will let the 2007 season dictate how that position plays out in 2007, they have a mix of young and old. Everywhere else, the Pats are young and set for another 4 year run. With 5 picks in next year's draft, they can clearly address the LB and any other problem areas.
A good pickup and makes the upcoming season exciting for any Pats fan.
Other teams in the NFL should just consider the rest of the decade rebuilding years. If they're smart they'll develop the youth, cut the veterans, draft smartly, and give your best players to the Patriots.
I would hate to see a team that is thinking of underestimating the patriots this year. Also what happened when Corey Dillon came in. The same comments were made about Corey Dillon and the impact that the veterans had on him changed him and he was a constant competeter on the field. And another player that no one thinks about right now that had character issues when he came in was Rodney Harrison. He was a player that people thought was a dirty player and just went head hunting. But when he was brought to NE he had the best impact of any free agent had. He blew everybody out of the water with how he matured in NE and became a very important player on the patriots not just as an athlete but as a key person in the locker room. So dont under-estmate what can be done to a player when they come to a winning system and can be put in a position as a contributor. Which Moss didnt have in Oakland. (Not Los Angeles like the draft announcer said yesterday)
Randy Moss to the Pats! I thought I was dreaming. Being from Boston, fans had to go through almost two decades of underachieving Patriot teams getting their tales whooped weeekend and week out. Our team came to light in the last few years without any markee names and now we have Randy Moss! Teams are in trouble. Dante and Randy are going to be the best one two combo in the league. You heard it here first! Colts got a lucky one last year and Peyton Manning is probaly the most overeated player in league history. Every team in the AFC has to be hating to get this news. Belichick is the "Enstein of Football". The Broncos,Colts and Jaguars can battle to see who will face us in the conference championchip, but it's really not going to matter. Randy will finish his career as a Patriot, win at least two rings and be in the Hall of Fame, no question!
Moss also gives Brady something that Pats have not had -- a legitimate threat to score on any play from any place on the field; to go up and take the ball away from Bailey et. al. in the end zone. And, unlike last year where they had to sort things out over the first few games of the regular season, the Pats have solidified the receiver situation before camp. Of there losses to Denver and Indy last season, having a working passing game early might have meant home field for that playoff game.
What's with all the questioning of our defense by other teams fans? The Pats were sixth overall in total defense last year, even with the injuries we had, we were second in points allowed, behind only Baltimore, and we missed the SB by 4 points. We added speed at LB and some depth at safety, plus offensive weapons that should keep them off the field more. With 5 picks in the first three rounds next year (a much better draft class than this year's) you will see more youth come in to the D. Plus, the offseason isn't over. Sorry, opponents, but the Pats D won't be an issue this year, just like, even with the injuries last year, it was really the O's inability to get it done that killed us.
Me living in New England, and growing up here all my life, i love the pats, but when i first found out that they traded for moss i wasnt sure how to feel, i mean, were built on chemistry, and he is known for being a hot head, so again im not sure how to feel, but if theres anyone who can somewhat control Moss, its gotta be belichick.
I think Moss and NE will be fine while the rest of the NFL will not be. He finally has a competent QB and with his presence on the field defenses will be focused on him which can free up alot more for NE. He may not be the same as he was in MN but his size and talent still makes him dangerous. He may stay longer since he'll have someone who is disciplined and more structured than the other franchises he was in. If he doesn't he'll just stick with his usual way of doing things, stick around for a few years and move on to other pastures.
What sportswriter made those comments? It was probably Dan shaugnessy of the Boston Globe. They're the Yankees of the NFL? Not really since the NFL has a salary cap. The Pats can't help it if players will play for less money for them
Please. Stop the trash talk already, Patsies. You're beginning to sound like Yankee fans with the "Crown us now" speeches. What are the facts? Colts won the SB. Period. Don't like it? Tough. Is NE going to be potentially better? Maybe. That 'bring in the merc talent' theory hasn't helped the 'Skins, much. As for the WR's they had last year, last time I checked they got paid, too. You'd think the blind and deaf caught balls from brady. Fact: Indy lost a few players - so what? With the worst defense in the NFL they won the SB. The worst. How do you like that? NE hasn't beaten the Colts in like...how many games, now..against the worst defense. Hmmm...who did the Colts lose? Other than June, whom everyone constantly berated as " too small - can't tackle " BS, no one they lost was critical and can't be replaced. 4/5 didn't even play in the SB nor much of the entire season. How much worse could they possibly go? Yeah... so what. Who did they pick up? Excellent replacements who should fill in easily enough. Stay the course has been the Colt's motto - finally looks to be working. The smoke and mirrors approach NE has used is over. Now they're on the road to self - destruction . One might even say they panicked big time after losing to the Colts all season long. Who's in whose head now?
As a Patriots fan, I am feeling rather uneasy with this move. Corey Dillon shaped up to play with the Patriots, but I'm not so sure Moss will be able to do the same. They're going to have to prove that they can A) make this guy give an honest effort every time he takes the field, and B) hold him to being a resemblance of a model citizen off the field. That being said, if the Patriots stay healthy and Moss performs and acts as he should, they could have a historic season forthcoming.
As a football fan you have to be curious about this move. But at the same time, how many times have the Patriots picked up a player like Moss and fit him into their system? Why are people questioning this organization with their trac record? They've won three Super Bowls with a system that maximizes their players talents. There may be a problem early, but it will get lined out. Bill Belicheck and Scott Pioli do this every year. Just be prepared to see the Patriots make the Super Bowl again as much as I hate to say it. Not only will the Pats make it, they'll win it. -Garrett
I'm sick of national media pundits pretending they know how the Patriots operate. Belicheck says it almost every press conference, and they still don't get it, because its a boring sound bite. "We do what we think is best for our football team to win games now and win games in the future". Thats exactly what he's said since he got here. Thats exactly what they've done since they got here. Nothing they do goes against the model because the model is simply get good value out of all your decisions. Dr. Z and Mel Kiper are handing out draft grades already. The Pats got an incomplete and C- respectively. I wonder if anyone really believes the Pats did themselves and the dynasty harm this weekend. It looks to me like they're ready to win this year and are loaded with draft picks to add youth again next year. A+ in my book.
All these people worried about the Pats imploding...please. Worst case scenario is Moss is still a jerk and shows no signs of changing (which I highly doubt will happen) then three games into the season, Belichick cuts him and life goes on with Stallworth, Washington, Welker, etc... and to the guy who said the Pats class is gone, it's Belichick's willingness to cut anyone who has attitude that gives the Pats class. Can you imagine what the entire O Line would do to Moss if he comes off the field jsut once yelling at Brady? Please, this is an absolutely no risk addition of a ridiculous talent who just wants to win.
Not only Randy Moss, but also the Brandon Meriweather draft choice shows the Pat's new "whatever it takes" attitude. It's a shame that the model team philosophy has been disgarded. Looks like the Sehawks are now picking up the mantle. Hope they don't get burnt by their ethics!
The Pats are probably the only team that can get through to Moss at this point. But even leaving aside the fact that Moss is 30, has character issues, and probably only plays hard about 60 percent of the time he's on the field - Moss is probably the MOST one-dimensional receiver in football. He can't run a route even if you chalked in on the field for him. He's only open if he can run by those covering him, and he'll continue to be double-teamed. Stallworth will probably get more catches this year, which is why I give this marriage one good year before it implodes.
"another said under his breath, "I hope this is the move that finally pushes this team over the edge and ends the Belichick dynasty." - Who was the sad bitter person who said this? Yes, the Patriots have been so bad for football, what an embarrassment having them be champs. What an idiot. It was probably Borges.
Secondly, to the poster at 3:50am. You dismiss the Patriots chances because the offensive moves won't make up for the defense no longer being a premier defense in the league (despite being ranked 6th), but you say the Colts are the favorites because of their offense despite their defense being ranked, what, 25th? So the Colts can win with a great offense and a crappy defense, but the Patriots can't win with a great offense and a very good defense. Doesn't make sense.
And Pats fans (and I am one), please don't embarrass yourselves by gloating. Nothing is won on paper.
Some people are missing the difference between bringing in so called bad apples in Corey Dillon and Rodney Harrison to Randy Moss. Dillon and Harrison never took plays off. Dillon played hard for the Bengals all the time. He just hated being on a losing team and was vocal about it. I have never heard anything bad about Harrison from the team he was playing on. He was well liked on the Chargers just as he is liked on the Patriots. He was hated by other teams players and called a dirty player. It happened when he was a Charger and it still happens now that he is a Patriot. Harrison has respect from his teammates but is still thought of as a dirty player by other teams players.
Moss, on the other hand, has been known to take plays off and stated it himself. He has had off field incidents with the law and team officials (which Harrison and Dillon haven't). Moss is a totally different player than Harrison and Dillon.
Moss is talented but takes plays off. It will be interesting to see how he works out in NE and they have upgraded their offense tremendously. They look like SB favorites but they still have to play the games. Anything can happen in the NFL.
New England will be contender for a looong time coming. They are just too well run. No doubt they are the odds-on favorite to win the Superbowl right now, but it's not even May people, so who knows. In any case, it will be many a year before the Pats miss the playoffs.
Will Moss be a help or hindrance? Probably neither. I foresee a TO-in-Dallas caliber showing from Moss: Not too much controversy, but not too much production either. The Pats will make the playoffs, and there's a good chance they'll even take XLII, but it won't be because of Whiny Randy.
Real pats fans know we still gotta get past denver and indy, both of whom we have not beat since 2004, and that the best team on paper is not always the best team (see 2001 playoffs). also sd has more young talent than anyone and pitt will be back. getting one of the byes is the key, weve never made a sb from the wild card round, althou prolly should have last year (made more bonehead plays in one half then in the 21 win streak combined, not to mention the phantom roughing the passer call which gave indy the lead instead of overtime). but the more january games in foxboro the better chance of seeing new england in february. also, i dont understand the yanks comparisons- belichick is just outsmarting everybody, nothing new. as for moss, next season he is a 4th round pick that can be cut on moments notice, that is it, so he cant ruin anything. pats fans are more worried about getting asante on the field. as for what will happen theres a reason why everybody watches the games. i just know that brady must be pleased he doesnt hafta carry receivers that hes introduced to in october into battle against peyton this time
The Pats were 4 yards short of another SB last season. And that was with a recieving corps that did not have a preseason. This year all this talent will be there beginning in MAY. Waving 3 rings (all in one era)under a player's nose can be quite motivational.Randy Moss has probably already had his role laid out for him before the deal was consumated, and he knows he will be a decoy half the time. Maroney and Faulk will see more daylight than Icarus. BooYa.
Why does Belichick need to handle, worry about changing, or even baby sit Moss? And who cares what Moss did yesterday. Belichick has determined that Moss has something left in the tank. Thus, the Patriots have given Moss an opportunity to win football games and compete for a championship. If Moss does his job, he benefits the Pats and helps them to compete. If he screws up the opportunity, he is cut and the Pats, who have won 3 Super Bowls without Moss, move on, costing them a lightly regarded fourth round pick. The Pats will compete this year, with or without Moss. It’s up to Moss if he is part of that. There is little or no pressure on the Pats. And keep in mind, Moss could be cut because he gets beat out by the other receivers. That is, Moss turns out to be a good citizen, works hard, but has lost so much off of his fastball that other receivers beat him out for a job. Maybe what happened during the last few years was more about ability than attitude. Belichick does not screw around here, the better players play, regardless of the resume. Even if he is a good citizen, Moss will have to earn his spot. That is why he is here. For the opportunity to compete for a job on a team that should compete for a championship. For the opportunity to contribute to that team’s success. It is not the resume or the history; it will be about earning a job today and earning that job everyday that he plays for the Patriots.
Dolt fans, calm down! Indy has little chance to re-peat. They'll be good, but will be effected by teh post Super Bowl hangover. Look at what happened to the Squealers!Yes, Moss is very talented and now the Pats have probably their best WR corps since Morgan and Fryar but let's play the games first. I'm a huge Pats fan, but also a realist. I like their chances as they have improved their offense and defense while the Colts have lost some key players from their "improved defense". I suspect the next Pats/Indy tilt will have a much different outcome than the last. Pay-Me-Tons is good, but he's no Tom Brady! San Diego self destructed after their play-off loss, and Denver seems shaky on offense with Cutler at QB. I agree that to compare the Pats to the Stankees is an insult. The NFL has a legit salary cap, MLB? If you got it, spend it. Hey, the Sox are big spenders now too (finally after years of Yawkey ownership)and all of Sox Nation is happy. Looking forward to another W.S. title to go along with another B.B. run for the Pats.
As a Moss fan, it bothers me to no end that people continue to bash him. Sure, he's made mistakes, however, I'm sure we all have. I find it very peculiar that the disclosure of marijuana use by pending draft picks was quickly dismissed by nearly everyone. Yet, that was one of two issues that sent Moss to Marshall (instead of Notre Dame or FSU). The other was defending himself in the midst of a racial riot in High School (that incident hurt him so badly, that he divorced himself from his home state of WV until last year). The water bottle incident was childish and out of frustration (he said he tried to talk to the official and was ignored, therefore he used another method to get his attention. Dumb move. Then there were the incidents with the team sponsors on the bus and the meter maid (that the media reported as an attempt to run over a POLICE officer). He wasn't brief about the folks on the bus and asked the individuals (who were in his reglar seat) to remove themselves. They balked and out of frustration relating to the game they'd just lost, made the same request but MUCH louder. The traffic incident involved the official informing Moss that he was going the wrong direction. He didn't understand what she said and proceeded only to have her jump onto the hood of his car. At this point, he thought she was a crazed fan / stalker. Bottom line, he paid his fine for traveling the wrong way on the street but her civil suit was dismissed. Next would be his early exit from the Redskin game (2 seconds). Even if they recover the onsides kick, the clock starts at the touching of the ball. GAME OVER. He would later say, that there were issues brewing on the sidelines and he felt it best that he simply walk away rather than have something huge erupt on the sidelines of a nationally televised game. Even Shannon Sharp of CBS said that players often exit early, (he's done it) but because Moss is a media whipping boy they're making it a big deal. The game was over. He was damned either way. Last was his faux moon to Packer fan. Totally blown out of proportion by Joe Buck. Tony Dungee of all people came to his defense stating that it is Packer fan tradition to line up near the busses and moon the opposing players as they exit the stadium, so whose really classless. He played for the Vikings for 6 years and outplayed his rookie contract the first year. He never made an issue of dollars, like some others have. The owner failed to invest in defensive players to augment the leagues best offense until he was trying to sell the team. For a player who simply wants to win, wouldn't you be frustrated. Yet you never saw him publically berate anyone regarding the situation like others have. He's not media friendly because of their prior treatment of him. They only like to portray the picture their trying to paint. Moss works hard in practice and loves to teach young players the ropes and his teammates will tell you that. He constantly stays late to work with a young WR who seeks his advice (ask Nate Burleson or Doug Gabriel, Kelly Campbell). How would you feel about an organization who besmurched a fallen teammates reputation just to keep from honoring the remainder of his contract. Not too good. Randy is extremely philanthropic and has donated millions. You never hear about that. You also don't know that after the death of Kory Stringer, he became a surrogate father for Kory jr. On last thing I find very odd. While watching draft experts evalutate defensive line prospects they said that it's okay for a guy to be a situational player (a few were accused of taking plays off). The experts said that's okay, because in the pros they'll be taken out for a few plays every series or rotated out. I played WR in college and ran alot of go routes, if the following play wasn't coming my way or didn't require my full exertion, my COACH told me to take it easy. So don't give me that crap about every WR running all out on every down, because it doesn't happen. Denny Green gave Moss the same instructions. The individual who Moss gave the infamous quote to, even says that isn't what Moss meant. You never hear about that. The media just perpedtuates this misinformation and has allowed it to malign a great athelete. Remember this, he had the Raiders over a barrell since the end of the season regarding his contract. He remained quiet and didn't demand anything (no Rosenhaus or media blitz or controversy). This all played out behind the scenes. To me, that was that was a sign of maturation and class. Randy simply wants to win badly and to emphasize that, took several million less to pursue that dream. If the rumors are true about his showcase for NFL teams @ a south Florida training facility last week are true (4.28 40 yd dash time), the league is about to witness something special for the second time.
I love all this hate for the Pats. Does every person criticiziong the organization actually think they've thought this through more than the Pats executives. This was rumored months ago and was apparently on the Pats' minds the entore time. Not only will the Pats shred the AFC East next year, but i just dont see how the Colts SOFT defense comes even close to stopping them> Their offence may still be better (but barely), however the patriots have the defense to make thenm a complete team unlike the colts. The colts won the Super Bowl because the Pays lacked depth defensively which is certainly not an issue anymore. I dont see the Pats losing more than 3 games next year and they should go undefeated in the East. Randy Moss is going to be unstoppable. he made Daunte Culppepper, not the opther way around. Now that he has a legitimate QB throwing him the ball....lookout! To all you hater, please keep hating because that only makes us happier and the team preform better.
Iv'e ben a Pats fan for life. I will tell you all a few things about this team. They thrive on adversity. Whenever they get disrespected they answer the call. They have karma on their side. Last year the refs handed Indy the game. All year the media was clicking at Bellicheck's heels. They make a deal out of everything. A guy offers a limp hand shake after a loss and the media is making a big deal. Come on. We got some real sour eggs here. I bet Bellicheck is saying, they think they are goining to screw me. Well let's see. Mark my words. This type of attention and the Pats are going to come up big. They are in the right.
The colts don't rebuild, they reload. Just wait, all you Pats fans. Moss is worse than Keyshawn Johnson and almost as bad as Owens when it comes to ripping a team's chemistry apart. I know we've lost June among several others, but i have no doubt the colts will have it all together come Sept... and then we'll see who's back-to-back AFC Champs.
As a player, Randy Moss will give the Patriots offense the ability to move the ball and score at will, at least matching the Colts in that department. For those who haven't payed attention the past few seasons, the Colts offensive pace and tempo is what made them almost unstoppable, and led to their SuperBowl title. As was evident in the AFC CG, in the end their tempo had the Pats D gasping for air. Now it's going to be fun to see how the Colts D (or any other D for that matter) will be left wondering how to stop Moss, Stallworth and/or Welker and the other upgrades at WR. And I'm not even touching on the running game with Maroney, Faulk and Knight.
Although the acquisition doesn't guarantee the SuperBowl, it does make the Pats quest for their 4th title in 7 years a very doable one.
As long as Randy keeps his mind on football, he'll be OK in NE. Maybe being in a locker with an abundance of blue-collar, "this is how it's done" mentality will push him in the right direction.
You're totally commited to an agenda, aren't you? To slice and dice the Patriots, thinking a simple sportswriter could end the biggest dynasty in history. Oh, so lame. You're pathetic. First a team has no talent and does well. But then, when it has talent, what happens? The dynasty ends? Yeah, you're right. Freaking sell out.
People want to keep pointing out Corey Dillon as a case of reform. However, Dillon was never one to quit on plays or to quit on his team. The assertion that these two are equal is ridiculous. Moss is a big baby who may not destroy the organization but he is a sublime waste of talent who represents what is wrong with the NFL
Yes, absolutely. Moss is not Owens...He will not, and has not, single-handedly destroyed a team. He will dominante, as will the Pats. Reguardless of how democratic the passing game is, Moss will still get the most catches, and still manage over 10 TD's this season. I'm not a Moss fan (of none of them, really, and I'm a Skins fan).
I don't like the Randy Moss trade. I think Tom Brady could have developed an awesome chemistry with the very talented Wes Welker and Donte Stallworth and brought their games to a new level. Now what are those two receivers left to think, "oh, Randy is gonna be the man, I'm just gonna be #2 or #3 now, no need to step my game up". The foundation of the Patriots success the past few years is guys playing above their abilities and within the system. A "big name" player kind of tears at that foundation.
The Colts lost nothing of any serious consequence in the postseason and have gotten stronger. They are still one of footballs youngest teams in the aggregate. If you knew anything about Pro Football you would know this, the core of their defense that one the SuperBowl (with Rob Morris starting) is still there. You Patriots fans are going to have to pay up again....ZOINKS!!!! We own YOU now!!! HAHAHA