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'The Worm' re-turns Rodman goes one-on-one with TNT's Sager
Posted: Friday February 25, 2000 09:07 PM
The one and only Dennis Rodman is back in the NBA spotlight as a member of the Dallas Mavericks. TNT's Craig Sager recently sat down with Rodman for a lengthy interview to talk to the "Worm" about returning to the NBA, why the Mavs, what happened with the Lakers, his infamous lifestyle and, of course, Carmen Electra. Craig Sager : Why the Dallas Mavericks? A team that is 20-27? Dennis Rodman : Why not? I don't know; that's a good question. Well, obviously it's not the money. It's a good city. I grew up here. I told myself six, seven years ago that I would never play in Dallas just because I have too many people that I know here. There's too much distraction [pause], that would just take me here, there, because I like to have a good time. But I think I'm mature enough that I can come back and take care of business. Plus, it's a great situation, where I can come in as I say every year and "prove people wrong," that Dennis has still got it, Dennis can still have an effect on the game. Sager : You said maturity. How have you matured? Rodman : I think I'm one of the smartest players to ever play the game, and people don't give me credit for that. They want to think that I'm just out there just for show and this and that. But they don't understand that if you talk to a lot of players, they will give you the same clue that I know the game of basketball. Sager : I don't think anybody's ever questioned your ability on the court, but it's been some of the things off the court. Rodman : That doesn't matter does it? What I do off the court is of no concern to people. People don't have any concern with what I do off the court. That's my business. The deal is, people pay a lot of money, bring their kids to look at some entertainment and to see a ballgame. That's basically what I do. What I do off the court is totally my business. So what you need to worry about is what I do on the court. Sager : So you haven't necessarily matured off the court? Rodman : I'm mature off the court. I've led my life a different way. Some people want to live their life as a family [pause], binding. I live my life as an everyday man. Sager : You're used to winning. You have five rings, twice best defensive player of the year. At one point you told me you would not go with a team unless they were a playoff contender with a chance to win a championship. Why did that change? Rodman : I don't know. I eventually thought that the Lakers would call me. And I think that I really had it set in my mind that I wouldn't go back to the Lakers just because of the fact that I think it would have been an inconvenience for me because of what happened last year. If [coach] Phil Jackson had been there last year, none of that stuff would have happened. Here's this year, different story. There was an article in the paper two days ago that said that the Lakers need a power forward. I'm like, "Hmmm. A little late isn't it?" But I'm here in Dallas; it's going to be fun. It will be Fun, and it will be interesting to see if this team can make the playoffs. Sager : Is this where Dennis Rodman's career will end? And if so, when? Rodman : I don't know. It just depends on how this year goes. If we make the playoffs, then I'll come back. I'll come back. If we don't make the playoffs? I tell you what, this is a real good young team. They just need some guidance and some understanding about the game. If I can give them a little bit of knowledge with an edge on that, I think this team can really contend for that last spot.
Rodman : Why not? I think that would be great. I think it would be great. I don't understand. How come I can't do that? But if you buy my book, I'm just totally nude? Anything different? There's nothing different about that. Sager : One is on the court, one is off. Rodman : Doesn't matter. You still look at it. It's right there in black and white, brother. Sager : What factors were part of this equation: How much you missed basketball? How much you needed the money? How much you missed the spotlight? Rodman : [smiles] You should know me better than that, Craig. I don't really need the money. I can live off a couple of thousand dollars a month. It doesn't matter to me. You know I don't care if I live in a big house. I don't care about fancy cars. That's not the big issue here. I didn't miss the game that much, you know. I'm not one of those players, "I have to get back in it, because, you know, people will forget all about me." I'm not that type of person. I've noticed that I'm probably one of the most recognizable persons in the world just because I'm tall and I stand out. The spotlight? Come on, I can get that anytime. That's not a problem. I can just go down the street and do something and - boom! -- [snaps his finger], "Dennis did it again." I mean, you read the papers every day. It's Dennis, Dennis, Dennis, Dennis, Dennis. You know, it's not Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan. It's always Dennis. "He did this; he's doing this." Sager : So why are you back? Rodman : I think I've already said that. I'm doing it for the kids. And for the people. For the people basically, that's it. I have no other reason to go back to basketball. Just give the people what they want. If you look at the NBA, seriously look at the NBA, who are they really marketing? No one. There's no one really that stands out. There's no one out there. All of a sudden, it's like last year. If I went four or five games in a row, everybody's riding my coattail. But if I do something just that much wrong [holds his index finger and thumb an inch apart], "Oh, he did it. Dennis, he needs to go. He needs to go." I don't understand. You need to balance it out. You're either with me, or you're not with me. Either way, I'd like for you to be with me. If not, then kiss my ass. I'm not going to sit there and conform to things that you really want me to do. I'm going to go out there to do a job. I get paid to do a job. I'm not there to make friends. I'm not there to hold your hand. I'm out there to win ballgames. That's basically it. Sager : Can you still play, though? Rodman : I can still play. Sager : As good as ever? Rodman : Well, I can't say I can jump as high as when I first came into the league. I don't think anyone can say that at 38 or 39 years old. No, that's wrong. I think I've matured enough to where I'm Smart, where I can get the ball. I can go out there and make plays. I can have some bursts of energy here and there as far as trying to create for the other players. I think the other players will feed off of my energy once I get in shape. I think it was a good example last year with the Lakers. I came in and we won 11 in a row. Then after I left ... [voice trails off]. But I think they realized that if you can have somebody on the team that will really work his ass off, everyone will follow. Sager : I don't think you worked as hard though with the Lakers as you did with the Chicago Bulls. Rodman : Well, it was unfortunate. It was a bad situation for me with the Lakers because everyone was pressuring me to do that. To go with the Lakers because they needed a power forward. They needed some excitement. They needed the L.A. "glamour boy" to go out there and make something happen. And it so happens that was me. And it so happens I was the fall guy at the same time. So, you know, I always get the bad rap for doing things that people don't see. Like, "Dennis, he comes to practice without his shoes and socks." Now everyone knows that's a lie. That's a lie. The Lakers were too cowardly and not enough of a man to come tell me, "Dennis, you know, the things that you do we're not used to. We think we need to let you go." They had to make up some excuse in saying, "shoes and socks." That's kind of wrong. So I was the fall guy last year. Sager : Two years ago, Hubie Brown was voting for you as defensive player of the year. Last year, you had an abbreviated part. Now this year, he's saying, "There are nine power forwards in the West with All-Star experience." Even some of your biggest supporters are saying you can't do it anymore. Can you match up with those type of players? Or are you just out here to have fun and put on a show for the kids and the people in the stands? Rodman : Hubie's got to understand something though. I've been in this league how many years? Fourteen years? I think I'm probably in the top three of the most winningest players ever to play the game. Everyone said that I'd a distraction with the Chicago Bulls. Everyone thought I was going to be a distraction with the Lakers? And now I'm with the Mavericks. Can I go wrong? No. I can't go wrong here. They're already 20-27, so the only thing to do is go up. We win a ballgame, I get 10 or 11 rebounds a game and we win, have I lost it? No. I don't care if a guy scores 25 or 30 points on me as long as we win the ballgame. That is the key. Who cares? You got your young kids that are 24 or 25. They're more agile; they're quicker; they're faster. Of course, we know that. I have to use my mind, my ability to outsmart other guys, especially when they are young. So, well see. Sager : Do you feel like there's less pressure on you? Rodman : There's no pressure on me at all. I don't have to sit there and prove to anyone that that Dennis Rodman is still the Dennis Rodman of old. No, there's no pressure. I've had pressure on me for the last, I think the most pressure I've had on me was in 1995, the first year in Chicago. Then after that, everything was cool.
Sager : What type of shape are you in? Rodman : Surprisingly, I was out there today, and, what did [head coach Don Nelson] Nellie say? Sager : He said that he was surprised that you were as smart as you were and you do the things this team needs. You play defense, you rebound and that you're smart. But he didn't say what kind of shape you were in as far as battling up and down [the court]. And he didn't say how many minutes he would play you. You'll start, right? Rodman : I don't know. Sager : You want to start? Rodman : Well, I'll just say this. Last year I came in after what, six months? And I think I did a pretty good job with the Lakers. You know with all the parties and all the other things I do off the court. I come in and get 12 rebounds and a few points here and there and a couple of assists. I think I did real well last year. Sager : It's been a very long offseason for you. Rodman : Yeah. Sager : What was your offseason like? What did you do? Rodman : Oh, come on. You should know. I was all over the world. I was just doing it up, brother. I was having a good time. I was living a man's man's life. Okay? I was living THE life. Sager : Making movies. Rodman : Making movies. Doing commercials. Sager : Having parties. Rodman : Oh, absolutely. The only way to go, brother. The ONLY way to go. You've got to have that. You have to. I live my life the way I want to, and it's a damned good one, too. Sager : Are you ready now to put that aside and concentrate on basketball for the rest of the year? rodman : No. Just because I'm going to play basketball doesn't mean I can't go have a good time. You know, business first, let's have a good time later. It's as simple as that. Sager : Do you have to go to practices? Do you have to be on time?
Sager : What's you idea of discipline? Rodman : My definition? I don't think you need to tell a player what to do. I don't think you need to do that. I think you really have to figure out and understand the individual, not the player. And once you understand the individual, I think everything comes into play. Then you have a good feel of what you got and who you got and how you can work with that situation. With me, I just think you have to say, "Okay, this is Dennis, this is Dennis. He comes in, he's got his focus on, his mind is right and he knows what he needs to do." Phil Jackson was a good example of that. He did not tell me, "Dennis, you've got to do this, you've got to do that. If you don't do this we're going to fine you." No. He knew what he had. He knew. And basically, I think that's how you can hold on to an individual today. Not yesteryear. Today. Because a lot of young players are very stubborn. They don't want to listen to anything. They don't want you to tell them anything. They just want to go, go, go, go. But if you can understand them, talk to them, and get a good feel for them, after that they have a good common sense of what needs to be done on the field and off. Sager : What are the Rodman rules or guidelines for the Mavericks? Rodman : I want to say something, but I can't [laughs]. I can't. Sager : We can edit it if you don't like it. Rodman : I've talked to Nellie and I've told him what I need before a game and after. I told Nellie in practice what I need. I like to be left alone. Leave me alone. Let me focus. Let me concentrate. Let me visualize what I need to do in a game. Let me visualize what I need to do before a game. Let me understand why I am here. Let me have all that and you'll have no problem with Dennis Rodman. If you start saying, "Wait, you've got to do this," or "Dennis you can't do that. You can not do that. You can't say that." Don't worry about it if it's all good, if I'm not hurting you. If I'm not hurting the fans, the people, let me be me. Sager : I'd be remiss if I didn't ask about [wife] Carmen [Electra]. Are you still with her? Is she coming here? Where does that stand? Rodman : Carmen? She'll be here. She'll be on the front row doing something. Probably eating popcorn or drinking a margarita or something. I don't know. Sager : So that relationship's on again? Rodman : Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's always here and there. Rocky, rocky. Sager : Are you happy right now? Rodman : I'm very content, because I have no reason not to come and play basketball. I have no bad vibes that's surrounding me right now. I think everything and the people in Texas have been very generous, very honest and very open. They can just as easily say, "Well you need to get the hell out of here because of your way of living. Your way of life is bad for the community and the people here. We don't like you. Goodbye, get out of here." No. I think I am one of the very few people in this business that can go and fill a stadium alone. It's like being a one-man rock star. Besides Michael Jordan, Dennis Rodman. You know with the Lakers they sold out every game I was playing. Now with the Mavericks tomorrow [Wednesday], extra 5,000 seats, 2,000 on hold. So what do you think? Sager : What does it mean for you to personally come back to Dallas? A city where you worked a graveyard shift at the airport at age 19. Got arrested for stealing watches. You didn't ever think you'd amount to anything. To come back and be this successful, this popular? Rodman : I've always said, "I don't understand. I really don't get it. I shouldn't be here, I shouldn't be here. This is a trip." I lived in the projects here, and I saw a lot of great athletes come out of the projects and amount to nothing. But all of a sudden, here comes this young, skinny kid who's growing out of the blue, going to the gym every day, four or five hours a day just going to have a good time. All of a sudden, I get recognized by a young lady. She recommended me to a college, went there and boom. You know, dropped out, come back, get recognized again. Boom, go to a small college. Dropped out of college, the Detroit Pistons pick me up. I've always said, "Wow. Of all the guys that should have made it, didn't make it." It's like I've stolen the DNA from all the guys that should have made it that were great athletes. And all of a sudden they've been embedded in to my body. And I've just carried their whole legacy on to the pros and I'm still here today. And all of a sudden now, there's a 360-degree turn back where I started right back in Dallas. Sager : Welcome back and good luck. Rodman : All right.
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